I've seen, in more than a few places, older traffic signals just left in place while the intersection is now controlled by stop signs.
Here's a few:
6th and Madison, Gary, Indiana (https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=41.600104,-87.342081&spn=0.009323,0.021136&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=41.600011,-87.342073&panoid=kgqnOVwQNNgotD44t3yiVg&cbp=12,353.6,,0,8.22)
State and 38th, East St Louis, Illinois (https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=38.609464,-90.11501&spn=0.000861,0.001321&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=38.609528,-90.115119&panoid=ivW-yxlBlaiOf23jxz8NNQ&cbp=12,127.53,,0,3.56)
Any more out there (as I am very certain there are)?
Had you been in Philadelphia during the mid-90s; there were a ton of signalized intersections of minor streets that were converted to all-way STOP signs. Within a few years, the signals & poles were eventually removed.
The reason for converting those intersections were due to cost & maintenance.
Crockett (Old US 69) at Hull. Denison, TX
This one may no longer be needed due to US 69 being moved off this street.
https://maps.google.com/?ll=33.745815,-96.532537&spn=0.000013,0.006228&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=33.745815,-96.532537&panoid=H11rMVSkXa24YnXRwzN8mg&cbp=12,355.31,,0,0 (https://maps.google.com/?ll=33.745815,-96.532537&spn=0.000013,0.006228&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=33.745815,-96.532537&panoid=H11rMVSkXa24YnXRwzN8mg&cbp=12,355.31,,0,0)
There are multiple intersections like this in Gainesville, TX. They only have one of the two signal heads per direction flashing dimly, but do have stop signs.
https://maps.google.com/?ll=33.62597,-97.150476&spn=0.000018,0.012456&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=33.62597,-97.150476&panoid=AbXKDlQ_WcHT4oUbgrmxlA&cbp=12,296.83,,0,0 (https://maps.google.com/?ll=33.62597,-97.150476&spn=0.000018,0.012456&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=33.62597,-97.150476&panoid=AbXKDlQ_WcHT4oUbgrmxlA&cbp=12,296.83,,0,0)
I'm wondering if Gainesville really had enough traffic at one time to warrant these signals.
There was one of these on the I-30 frontage roads in Dallas near the main Post Office. It was removed, probably when I-30 was widened.
Quote from: PHLBOS on March 26, 2014, 04:55:18 PM
Had you been in Philadelphia during the mid-90s; there were a ton of signalized intersections of minor streets that were converted to all-way STOP signs. Within a few years, the signals & poles were eventually removed.
The reason for converting those intersections were due to cost & maintenance.
The intersection of Upland (PA 320) and 7th Streets (http://goo.gl/maps/i2t0X) in Chester is still like that.
Are the stop signs actually needed? I thought that a traffic light that's off means the same as a stop sign.
(I don't drive, so I may be wrong about this.)
Quote from: 1 on March 26, 2014, 10:25:37 PM
Are the stop signs actually needed? I thought that a traffic light that's off means the same as a stop sign.
(I don't drive, so I may be wrong about this.)
Not everywhere. Maryland didn't have that law as recently as last year. There was talk of changing it, but I don't know whether they actually did.
There is an intersection on Main Street in Franklin Borough, NJ with an old set of traffic lights. The cross street has stop signs and the signals flash red. The Main Street signals flash yellow.
These seem to be common in Detroit.
Quote from: M3019C LPS20 on March 28, 2014, 04:40:24 PM
These seem to be common in Detroit.
Not surprising, since Detroit has decommissioned over 100 signals (http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthread.php?14922-Traffic-Signals-Suddenly-Disappearing-Around-Detroit&p=349206#post349206) in the last 10 years. I encountered a lot of signals in permanent flash mode the time my car got towed to Mexicantown.
In a much more rural part of the state, a lot of signals in the Thumb have been removed in the last few years. At least in 2012, the intersection in Port Austin where M-25 makes a 90 degree turn still had the signal up, but was controlled by stop signs.
Quote from: 1 on March 26, 2014, 10:25:37 PM
Are the stop signs actually needed? I thought that a traffic light that's off means the same as a stop sign.
(I don't drive, so I may be wrong about this.)
Generally, yes, although that's usually reserved in emergency situations. If it's permanent, better to have stop signs.
Next question: if the turned-off traffic light is still there, and the cross street has stop signs, how do the drivers on the "go" street know they don't have to stop?
My answer: it's usually the main road, or an off-season where most of the drivers are locals. (LBI, NJ comes to mind)
Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 30, 2014, 09:40:35 PM
Next question: if the turned-off traffic light is still there, and the cross street has stop signs, how do the drivers on the "go" street know they don't have to stop?
My answer: it's usually the main road, or an off-season where most of the drivers are locals. (LBI, NJ comes to mind)
Have you seen any instances of this? Everything in the thread so far falls into two categories:
- The signal is operating, but in flash mode.
- If the signal is turned off completely, it's signed as an all-way stop.
As mentioned, Long Beach Island in NJ during the off season. This was especially true the winter & spring after Superstorm Sandy came thru.
If the warrants for a traffic signal are no longer met, would the DOT be required to remove the signal?
I ask because there are several signals that I'm familiar with that are surprisingly still in place, even though it would probably make sense to decomission.
Take this example from Los Angeles: Arden and Rosewood in Hancock Park http://goo.gl/maps/cmZUu
I have a hard time seeing that this intersection ever warranted a traffic light. Arden is one block from Rossmore, which is the southern extension of Vine Street.
Rossmore has a lot of traffic, but it generally moves well, there really isn't that much traffic on Arden or Rosewood. I believe that nothing more than a 4-way stop would ever be necessary. And if this light can be removed, maybe the city can put in place a signal in a more warranted location where a signal is currently lacking due to budget considerations. [like Palms/Inglewood in the Mar Vista section for example]
Quote from: Ian on March 26, 2014, 10:23:37 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on March 26, 2014, 04:55:18 PM
Had you been in Philadelphia during the mid-90s; there were a ton of signalized intersections of minor streets that were converted to all-way STOP signs. Within a few years, the signals & poles were eventually removed.
The reason for converting those intersections were due to cost & maintenance.
The intersection of Upland (PA 320) and 7th Streets (http://goo.gl/maps/i2t0X) in Chester is still like that.
Loved that one!
Here is one that was posted in Mobile. It was later replaced with a double red flasher (https://www.aaroads.com/southeast/alabama999/congress_st_wb_at_kennedy_st.jpg):
(https://www.aaroads.com/southeast/alabama999/congress_st_eb_at_kennedy_st_tl.jpg)
These flashed red in all directions.
In every example I've seen, STOP signs have been installed if the signal is in permanent flash mode or deactivated. If it is not an ALL WAY STOP, then CROSS TRAFFIC DOES NOT STOP plaques should be and typically are used. It would be totally wrong and unsafe to turn off a signal without installing stop signs. People don't even know to stop for a signal that is experiencing a power failure. Also, a turned off signal would be impossible to see at night, and some people wouldn't even notice it the daytime.
QuoteIf the warrants for a traffic signal are no longer met, would the DOT be required to remove the signal?
Not required, AFAIK, but there's nothing stopping the DOT (or local jurisdiction) from removing the signal if it no longer meets warrants.
Came upon one last week in Gaylord, MN where MnDOT recently removed the signal at the eastern MN 5/MN 19/MN 22 junction. They only removed the signalheads, but retained the mast arms so as to keep the mast arm-mounted trailblazer signs. The new configuration is now 2-way stop control, with MN 5/19 being the "main route".
Quote from: Brian556 on April 06, 2014, 06:45:40 PM
In every example I've seen, STOP signs have been installed if the signal is in permanent flash mode or deactivated. If it is not an ALL WAY STOP, then CROSS TRAFFIC DOES NOT STOP plaques should be and typically are used. It would be totally wrong and unsafe to turn off a signal without installing stop signs. People don't even know to stop for a signal that is experiencing a power failure. Also, a turned off signal would be impossible to see at night, and some people wouldn't even notice it the daytime.
Is there also a requirement that if the traffic signal is permanently deactivated, the signal faces need to be covered or turned aside?
I frequently see this when a new traffic light is getting ready to be installed. Until the electricity is turned on, the signals are in some way "obscured" so that traffic will not treat this like a signal that lost its power and instead follow the traditional markings on the road, like stop signs.
There are several locations along Texas 130 near Lockhart where the frontage road and/or US 183 have lights at cross streets that were set to permanent flash with only two-way stops a matter of months after the road opened. TxDOT is coming under fire for the decision because there have been numerous serious accidents at these locations.
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 26, 2014, 10:53:45 PM
Quote from: 1 on March 26, 2014, 10:25:37 PM
Are the stop signs actually needed? I thought that a traffic light that's off means the same as a stop sign.
(I don't drive, so I may be wrong about this.)
Not everywhere. Maryland didn't have that law as recently as last year. There was talk of changing it, but I don't know whether they actually did.
Really? I thought that already was the law in Maryland... A couple years ago the light at Baltimore and Mechanic Streets in Cumberland failed (a drunk driver crashed into the control box for the lights), and while the lights were out the intersection was treated as a four-way stop. I remember seeing a couple articles in the local newspaper noting that the people in Cumberland were confused by it, because four-way stops are extremely rare in western Maryland.
Quote from: algorerhythms on April 28, 2014, 11:23:47 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 26, 2014, 10:53:45 PM
Quote from: 1 on March 26, 2014, 10:25:37 PM
Are the stop signs actually needed? I thought that a traffic light that's off means the same as a stop sign.
(I don't drive, so I may be wrong about this.)
Not everywhere. Maryland didn't have that law as recently as last year. There was talk of changing it, but I don't know whether they actually did.
Really? I thought that already was the law in Maryland... A couple years ago the light at Baltimore and Mechanic Streets in Cumberland failed (a drunk driver crashed into the control box for the lights), and while the lights were out the intersection was treated as a four-way stop. I remember seeing a couple articles in the local newspaper noting that the people in Cumberland were confused by it, because four-way stops are extremely rare in western Maryland.
Well, yeah. It's an intersection normally controlled by a traffic light, and there's a lot of police, emergency personal, and DOT trucks trying to fix the light. Then add on top of that an unsigned 4 way stop condition. Of course it's going to be confusing.
Even permament 4-way stop intersections with a lot of traffic tend to be confusing in the best of times.
It ended up taking them several weeks to finish fixing the light, so it was like that for a while.
edit: Found an article about it (http://www.times-news.com/local/x1277551446/Downtown-signal-work-expected-to-take-5-weeks/print)
Here's one in the old Philadelphia Navy Yard. These signals have been deactivated for at least 30 years, when the base was still active.
https://www.google.com/maps?ll=39.891242,-75.160582&spn=0.000016,0.013078&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=39.891218,-75.163001&panoid=KXUJ7TgEC1ILytylUy1tAg&cbp=12,100.62,,0,11.08
The city of Lafayette, IN just finished a traffic study at 6th & Main and 6th & Ferry where they made the traffic lights flash red, essentially turning them into 4-way stops. The study showed that the traffic lights weren't necessary. And now, the lights will be permanently replaced with stop signs. The change will happen over the next two weeks.
Fayetteville, AR has replaced numerous signals with 4-Way Stops over the years. The latest was near the University of Arkansas, where the last 4-Way signal was removed, so all the historic houses could be replaced by student condos.
Main Street in downtown Adrian, Michigan has stop signs at intersections formerly controlled by traffic signals. The signals were removed several years ago.
:poke: Looking at some of the pictures, it appears that some of the signals are "antiquated", and not even worth the trouble to recycle for use elsewhere.
This one on MA Route 2 appears to have previously controlled a signalized crossing of the highway with jughandles, but is now right in/right out. Westbound Route 2 appears to be now on permanent yellow blink with the side road getting a stop sign. Eastbound still appears to have an active signal.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.547644,-71.813119,3a,75y,263.79h,77.92t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sktuK4SflAh3DRFBrCJaERw!2e0
Delphi, IN stoplight to be removed:
http://wlfi.com/2014/06/25/delphi-stoplight-to-be-removed/ (http://wlfi.com/2014/06/25/delphi-stoplight-to-be-removed/)
Red and yellow flashing lights will replace the stoplight.
The city with the most traffic light removals is Anniston, in the last two years, over 20 intersections have had their traffic lights removed and replaced with either 2-way or 4-way stop signs. The city is not stopping and more intersections are about to see their traffic lights removed. I took this picture of the city workers removing the covering from the stop sign and turning off the traffic light.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgeekalabama.files.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F05%2Flight-091.jpg%3Fw%3D584%26amp%3Bh%3D389&hash=1ade3a44bdccdcb80244913f45821edb9d050481)
Quote from: billtm on June 25, 2014, 09:21:55 PM
Delphi, IN stoplight to be removed:
http://wlfi.com/2014/06/25/delphi-stoplight-to-be-removed/ (http://wlfi.com/2014/06/25/delphi-stoplight-to-be-removed/)
Red and yellow flashing lights will replace the stoplight.
So it will be returning to the original configuration. This light was a bit of a pain because it was Michigan style (in the middle of the intersection), so it was nearly impossible to see. If they simply add a left turn lane here it would help.
There was one in Boone, NC where the signal always flashed red in all directions, but they've replaced it with a single aspect signal.
Although there aren't any stop signs at it, this intersection in Chattanooga, TN is in a permanent flash from what I can tell:
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Chattanooga,+TN&hl=en&ll=35.006035,-85.216188&spn=0.000002,0.001032&sll=34.701429,-86.659749&sspn=0.449913,1.056747&oq=Chat&t=h&hnear=Chattanooga,+Hamilton+County,+Tennessee&z=21&layer=c&cbll=35.006035,-85.216188&panoid=Hw_8_eEjZ_-DYKPodW0bSA&cbp=12,79.45,,0,-5.88
There's also a 4-way signal in Sheffield, AL that operates when the nearby school is letting out or in, but it is in flash mode the rest of the time.
There is a Sargent Sowell 4-way signal at the intersection of Newman St and Lincoln St in East Tawas, Michigan, that is in flash mode with the Newman St approaches having flashing yellow and Lincoln St having flashing red with stop signs. From what I've been told, the signal was installed in the '60s for a school at the corner of the intersection. It would operate normally at drop-off/pick-up times and flash the rest of the time. When the East Tawas school district merged with the Tawas City school district, the school was demolished. The signal was put into permanent flash mode sometime in the '80s. I took a video of the signal and posted it on YouTube. https://youtu.be/erUpodPZDBs
Also, there are old horizontal Crouse Hinds signals in Arcanum, Ohio, that flash red all directions. The intersection is a 4-way stop. https://youtu.be/HXx2-YZsbDU
Looks like State Street in East St. Louis, IL, has a lot of these besides the one already posted:
State Street at 16th Street (https://goo.gl/maps/bg4CKhQRQLs)
State Street at 33rd Street (https://goo.gl/maps/R1LGGnRgwtv)
State Street at 47th Street (https://goo.gl/maps/Gw6ZpSsZCwE2)
State Street at 59th Street (https://goo.gl/maps/f1eZmXxDA7q)
There's also M.L. King at 9th in East St. Louis (https://goo.gl/maps/diDNbg2kkT82)
This intersection (https://goo.gl/maps/MFoT69HEgu32) in Toledo, OH. Kenwood Blvd. at Cheltenham. Pretty much the same assembly with Econolite bullseye signal heads, but reduced from 3 sections to 1, and the (mismatched!) ped signals on the wood poles all but vanished. I think the concrete pad where the control box was is still visible to the right, closer side. These were originally installed in about 1974, replacing 8" heads in flag-like braces (Crouse-Hinds, I think).
Kissimmee, FL had them on Osceola Parkway at the State Road 417 interchange. The signals were only a month old as they were installed when 417 opened to traffic and the county thought there was not enough traffic to warrant its operation so it was set on flash for over two decades. Now Osceola County turned them back on due to traffic being increased since then.
On the Courtney Campbell Causeway between Tampa and Clearwater, some of the service road access signals were removed, but the concrete strain poles are still there. FDOT informed me they were not warranted despite the Courtney Campbell being at full capacity at peak hours.
Here's one from St. Cloud, MN. I have no idea why the signal was removed, but I think originally the intersection also provided access to what at the time was a public surface parking lot. The 2008 GSV image shows the disabled signal awaiting removal after the (at the time) brand-new parking garage on the north side of the road was completed.
https://goo.gl/maps/zfBEUcvGXkA2 (https://goo.gl/maps/zfBEUcvGXkA2)
And as a bonus, here's another one two blocks down the road that was replaced with a four-way stop after access to nearly MN-23 was reduced in 2010.
https://goo.gl/maps/HL3wbFchgGq (https://goo.gl/maps/HL3wbFchgGq)
Sevierville, Tennessee (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.8673416,-83.5656686,3a,60y,205.37h,96.54t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sr0m6dt6qowf0BBYkaSzKSg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
This intersection in Vernon, CT, never had its normal operating phase turned on. Likely dated from 1978-80 when the frontage roads were added. Its since been replaced with standard beacons.
At the three other frontage road intersections there are also beacons. I'm guessing the original plans had signals at those too.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8311279,-72.4660617,3a,54.4y,148.72h,93.04t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s157Onz5kIFl1-_yjGq_mGg!2e0!5s20120401T000000!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8311279,-72.4660617,3a,54.4y,148.72h,93.04t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s157Onz5kIFl1-_yjGq_mGg!2e0!5s20120401T000000!7i13312!8i6656)
This one in Windsor is still stands and I also can't find any evidence that its ever been in normal use. Most traffic from Windsor to Windsor Locks stays on I-91 instead of using CT 159.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9121491,-72.6275037,3a,51.7y,39.99h,82.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sUtDmryxg7puZnvnBNKF6Qg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9121491,-72.6275037,3a,51.7y,39.99h,82.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sUtDmryxg7puZnvnBNKF6Qg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
Not an exact fit, but this signal's phases rarely change, and usually only when Bright Nights is going on. Springfield, MA.
https://goo.gl/maps/QnXHmNxfjMc7TYGv7 (https://goo.gl/maps/QnXHmNxfjMc7TYGv7)
May want to merge this thead with this one?
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=10507.0
There's at least a lot of overlap. Many examples there that apply here and vice-versa.