Very Unusual Signal Setup/ Operation With FYA's In Denton TX

[Brian556]

Very unusual signal setup and operation with FYA's at Locust & Hickory Sts in Denton TX. Locust St is one way. Hickory St is one way west of this intersection, but is two-way east of it.

Westbound signals have no green or green arrow. Drivers only get FYA's, as far as I have seen. Westbound signals have green arrows and FYA's in the same section. Drivers turning left sometimes get green arrow, FYA at other times.

This would mean that both east and westbound drivers turning north on Locust would get FYA's at the same time

Pedestrian signals allow all 4 crosswalks to be used at the same time.

These are videos. Click on them to view in Flikr. Somebody please tell me how to fix this so they play embedded

Westbound Signal:Traffic Signal Westbound Hickory St at Locust St in Denton Tx Feb 15,2020 by Brian Kosich, on Flickr

Eastbound Signal: Traffic Signal Eastbound Hickory St at Locust St in Denton Tx Feb 15, 2020 by Brian Kosich, on Flickr

[Chuttlely]

Quite a weird setup! I only know of two other intersections (surface streets only) in Texas with straight arrows, both in Austin. 


https://www.google.com/maps/@30.3367897,-97.7557632,3a,75y,297.52h,97t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sPR9KJ7tGO84x1_n9oLdrhQ!2e0!5s20180501T000000!7i16384!8i8192


https://www.google.com/maps/@30.2813025,-97.7406825,3a,15y,104.86h,96.89t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sVdIPb_Ix4aleGBAdqo-llw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DVdIPb_Ix4aleGBAdqo-llw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dsearch.revgeo_and_fetch.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D96%26h%3D64%26yaw%3D144.2178%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

[jakeroot]

Might need a "LEFT TURN YIELD TO ONCOMING TRAFFIC" sign.

Overall, the best signal placement of any intersection in Texas. Well done, Denton.

[djlynch]

Might need a "LEFT TURN YIELD TO ONCOMING TRAFFIC" sign.

The continuous flow intersection at US 290 and William Cannon in Austin has a kind of similar setup with offset left turns and right turns onto the same exit from the intersection occurring on FYA simultaneously, and there are pavement markings to channel the turning traffic into separate lanes without anyone having to yield. Not sure why that isn't done here.

[jakeroot]

Might need a "LEFT TURN YIELD TO ONCOMING TRAFFIC" sign.

The continuous flow intersection at US 290 and William Cannon in Austin has a kind of similar setup with offset left turns and right turns onto the same exit from the intersection occurring on FYA simultaneously, and there are pavement markings to channel the turning traffic into separate lanes without anyone having to yield. Not sure why that isn't done here.

That's fairly unusual because A) most people will probably ignore the markings, and turn into the wrong lane, and B) most people turning right will likely need the left lane (eventually), and those turning left likely need the right lane (again, eventually). Unless you're going around in circles.

[stevashe]

Might need a "LEFT TURN YIELD TO ONCOMING TRAFFIC" sign.

Does the sign between the right only and thru only signs not work in this capacity?

In fact, "to oncoming traffic" wouldn't be correct anyway since there shouldn't be any traffic to yield to during the green arrow phase and that wording implies you must yield at all times.

[jakeroot]

Might need a "LEFT TURN YIELD TO ONCOMING TRAFFIC" sign.

Does the sign between the right only and thru only signs not work in this capacity?

In fact, "to oncoming traffic" wouldn't be correct anyway since there shouldn't be any traffic to yield to during the green arrow phase and that wording implies you must yield at all times.

I'm thinking that drivers are yielding to pedestrians, but not cars, based on the video. Of course, that could have been a one-off "lemming" situation; why the oncoming car didn't try and butt in when they had the right-of-way, I don't know.

There are other variations of that sign that could work:

"LEFT TURN YIELD TO ONCOMING TRAFFIC EXCEPT ON GREEN ARROW"
"LEFT TURN YIELD TO ONCOMING TRAFFIC ON [FYA SYMBOL]"
"YIELD TO ONCOMING TRAFFIC ON [FYA SYMBOL]"
"YIELD ON [FYA SYMBOL] TO ONCOMING TRAFFIC"
"LEFT TURN MUST YIELD TO RIGHT TURN EXCEPT ON [FYA SYMBOL]"
"LEFT TURN WATCH FOR ONCOMING TRAFFIC"

Honestly, "except on green arrow" or variations that are more specific probably aren't necessary, as most drivers will know not to yield on a green arrow. Most.

[roadfro]

The signal setup isn't all that unusual. I feel like I've seen something similar pointed out on the forum previously. What would enhance the operation though is if there were painted guide lines within the intersection to guide the turning traffic into the closest lanes, so that turns from both directions could be made simultaneously.

Sign design and placement leaves a lot to be desired at this intersection though...

Slightly OT: Look at how busy the lighted street name signs are. Denton appears to put both intersecting block numbers on the signs. This one is at the origin point, so you have N 100 and S 100 on here. But the sign is also crowded by adding "US 77" and what appears to be a mini Texas flag icon in the upper corners, so the block numbers don't line up well.