Northern Virginia HOT Lanes

[1995hoo]

I have not gotten to read any of it. Just started a new job this week and have had no time (plus no Internet access at the office and phone usage not allowed). But I don't follow how it can be criminal if Transurban, rather than the Commonwealth's Attorney (what would be the DA in New York), is bringing the action.

This clearly isn't over. I suspect it'll wind up before the Virginia Supreme Court. But it is absolutely ridiculous that they don't query the E-ZPass database.

[cpzilliacus]

I have not gotten to read any of it. Just started a new job this week and have had no time (plus no Internet access at the office and phone usage not allowed). But I don't follow how it can be criminal if Transurban, rather than the Commonwealth's Attorney (what would be the DA in New York), is bringing the action.

Is it even legal for a state to delegate its powers of criminal prosecution to a private corporation?  In Virginia or in any other state?

This clearly isn't over. I suspect it'll wind up before the Virginia Supreme Court. But it is absolutely ridiculous that they don't query the E-ZPass database.

All correct.  And not looking up tag numbers first is contrary to what I will call good toll road management practices.

[1995hoo]

This morning's Washington Post has a one-paragraph article saying there was a head-on collision in the I-395 HOV lanes just north of Duke Street last Thursday night (the HOV lanes, not the HO/T portion). Someone was going north when the lanes were pointed south. Article does not say how the person got in there going the wrong way.

While that area isn't part of the HO/T lanes, I understand Transurban bears responsibility for all gates along the reversible roadway all the way up to the Pentagon. Be interesting to hear what happened in this case.


(Edited: It was Thursday night, not last night, and according to Channel 4 the cops don't know how the guy got in there going the wrong way.)

[oscar]

This morning's Washington Post has a one-paragraph article saying there was a head-on collision in the I-395 HOV lanes just north of Duke Street last night (the HOV lanes, not the HO/T portion). Someone was going north when the lanes were pointed south. Article does not say how the person got in there going the wrong way.

While that area isn't part of the HO/T lanes, I understand Transurban bears responsibility for all gates along the reversible roadway all the way up to the Pentagon. Be interesting to hear what happened in this case.

Always possible for someone to enter the lanes going the correct direction, and then making an incredibly stupid and/or drunken U-turn. I don't know if other wrong-ways have followed that scenario, but it seems a realistic one, and hard to prevent.

[1995hoo]

Yeah, and it's possible in a few places to drive around the barriers. You'd have to do it very slowly, but it's possible to squeeze by. No system is ever going to be 100% perfect. After all, someone could just smash through the barriers too, though if that had happened I assume it would have been in the paper.

[cpzilliacus]

Though the reason this attracted my attention (beyond the tragic loss of life) was that such crashes have been (virtually) unheard-of since the reversible lanes opened in their present configuration in the 1970's between (roughly) present-day Va. 289 (Franconia-Springfield Parkway) [road was not built unto the 1990's] and the Potomac River at the 14th Street Bridge complex.

[froggie]

Yesterday morning on the GGW listserv (which I'm a part of since I occasionally contribute to GGW), someone commented that the price for the Inner Loop HO/T lanes was up to $14.45 around 8am.  Is this a new high?

[cpzilliacus]

Yesterday morning on the GGW listserv (which I'm a part of since I occasionally contribute to GGW), someone commented that the price for the Inner Loop HO/T lanes was up to $14.45 around 8am.  Is this a new high?

I have not seen it that high, but I don't drive there every day.  The most I have personally observed was between $7 and $8, southbound on a stormy weekday afternoon.

[cpzilliacus]

Washington Post: Class-action suit claims predatory toll scheme on 495 Express Lanes

The company that manages the Interstate 495 toll lanes in Northern Virginia is socking violators with "unfair, illegal and unconscionable"  fines and fees that have reached tens of thousands of dollars in some cases, according to a class-action lawsuit announced this week.

The suit, which was filed in federal court in Alexandria, claims that Transurban uses a predatory scheme because the Capital Beltway express lanes have not been as profitable as expected and some drivers are being hit with violations that never occurred.

"We all live in the area and have friends and family that have had problems with the toll lanes,"  said Jeffrey Kaliel, an attorney with the firm Tycko & Zavareei. "It's not run in a way that's appropriate. It's hurting a lot of people that never meant to run a toll."

A Transurban spokesman declined to comment on the lawsuit, saying the company had not seen it. But he generally defended Transurban's toll practices on the 14-mile stretch of lanes that runs from the Springfield Interchange past the Dulles Toll Road.

[cpzilliacus]

Washington Post: Drivers debate what's to like (or not) about Virginia's HOT lanes

My father was a civil engineer, so I start out with some sympathy towards people who build roads, but the folks who did the new HOT lanes on I-95 south to Aquia, not so much.

problem with paying tolls on the new miles. Got to pay for them. No question. But: The express lanes from I-395 to where they used to end, down near Triangle, were built with my tax money.

I resent having to pay tolls, and pretty steep tolls to boot, to use them outside the rush hours. I am sort of okay with paying tolls in rush hour (3:30-6 p.m. southbound) if I do not have three passengers, but they used to be free in non-rush hours and should still be free then.

My greatest complaint is the way the new lanes terminate a half-mile short of Exit 143 at Garrisonville/Aquia. As it is, dumping the HOT traffic back onto the main line backs the main line up nine miles in rush hour, and the HOT lanes just a little less. This is simply bad design and needs to be corrected.

Next problem is that where I would get on the HOT lanes on I-395 or from I-495, the signs give the toll rates only to the nearest three exits. They do not tell the tolls to the terminus at Aquia. I am just not going to get on those lanes without knowing the cost. I just won't.

The HOT lanes have made the mess on I-95 worse, not better.

[1995hoo]

I saw that letter in yesterday's paper and thought it sounded rather childish, especially that paragraph about "I am just not going to get on those lanes .... I just won't."

Dr. Gridlock did a poor job in his response of explaining WHY the segment-based tolling is in use, though. All he said was that it's segment-based. Transurban has never really tried to explain this well either. I think Mapmikey came up with the best short explanation somewhere earlier in this thread when he noted that you can't manage congestion via pricing if you post a toll for an area the driver won't reach for almost half an hour, which is what would be the case if they posted a toll to the lanes' other terminus.

[ARMOURERERIC]

I have not gotten to read any of it. Just started a new job this week and have had no time (plus no Internet access at the office and phone usage not allowed). But I don't follow how it can be criminal if Transurban, rather than the Commonwealth's Attorney (what would be the DA in New York), is bringing the action.

Is it even legal for a state to delegate its powers of criminal prosecution to a private corporation?  In Virginia or in any other state?

This clearly isn't over. I suspect it'll wind up before the Virginia Supreme Court. But it is absolutely ridiculous that they don't query the E-ZPass database.

All correct.  And not looking up tag numbers first is contrary to what I will call good toll road management practices.

I don't  know if this would be a valid comparison, but when I lived near NN shipyard 1991-1996, any process serving to an employee if NN Shipbuilding, by state law was handled by shipyard security, process servers, sheriffs with warrants and such, could not go on shipyard property to serve.

[cpzilliacus]

I saw that letter in yesterday's paper and thought it sounded rather childish, especially that paragraph about "I am just not going to get on those lanes .... I just won't."

Dr. Gridlock did a poor job in his response of explaining WHY the segment-based tolling is in use, though. All he said was that it's segment-based. Transurban has never really tried to explain this well either. I think Mapmikey came up with the best short explanation somewhere earlier in this thread when he noted that you can't manage congestion via pricing if you post a toll for an area the driver won't reach for almost half an hour, which is what would be the case if they posted a toll to the lanes' other terminus.

If people want to blame anyone for the PPTA projects like the 495 and 95 HOV/Toll lanes and other private projects around the Commonwealth (such as the Elizabeth River crossings and the Dulles Greenway), then they need to be pointed in the direction of Richmond, where the General Assembly has stonewalled any increase in motor fuel tax rates for decades, and at ex-Gov. George Felix Allen for getting the PPTA passed through the General Assembly in the first place, under the guise of private funding entirely displacing the need for ever increasing the tax on motor fuels (it was one of the justifications cited when it was proposed in 1994 or 1995).

[cpzilliacus]

WTOP Radio: Women launch website targeting Express Lane fines

Two Northern Virginia women profiled on WTOP have come together to launch a new website to protest the fines and penalties on the Express Lanes. In some cases, the fines can be thousands of dollars.

Toni Cooley and Lisa Marie Comras launched Drivers4Change.org because they want a conversation to begin on how to restore fairness to the process. 

"Basically what they did is they took the HOV law and copied it over to the HOT (high occupancy toll) Lanes statute. But when you commit an HOV violation, a trooper pulls you over and writes you a ticket. You know you've committed a violation and if you do it again, the fines go up. You don't know that on the HOT Lanes,"  says Cooley.

[Mapmikey]

Yesterday the toll for 95 Express Lanes SB on the last segment (Dale City to Garrisonville) was a little over $14 (about 5:15 pm).

But there was very little queue at the end to get back onto mainline 95.

Last week when there was an 8 mile queue (bus wreck at the end of the flyover in Garrisonville), this segment was only $11.

Earlier this week this segment was under $5 one day.

Other than the queues that sometimes form it is difficult to discern that the road is busier or not on any given day to compare to the prices that are in place...

Mapmikey

[cpzilliacus]

WTOP Radio: Drivers winning in court against Express Lanes operator

FAIRFAX, Va. – Six drivers saw their unpaid-toll cases dismissed in Fairfax County General District Court on Monday, while the final ruling on another landmark case has been delayed due to a last-minute motion.

Circuit Court Judge Dennis J. Smith ruled in April that Express Lanes operator Transurban must sue drivers for unpaid tolls within a year. Toni Cooley, Jim Diller and Stuart Holmes all won their cases with the decision, and the fallout has been felt ever since – six cases were dismissed on Monday because Transurban waited too long to sue, and more will likely be dismissed in the coming weeks.

[Mapmikey]

Toll on the Dale City to Garrisonville segment SB at about 4:30 this afternoon was $16.45.   The queue to get back onto mainline 95 was about 1/3 mile.

There was a VMS in Woodbridge for mainline 95 saying that the 20 miles to SR 610 Garrisonville would take 54 minutes.  Using the toll lanes it took about 25.

Normally the Thursday afternoon commute on a holiday weekend would run 2.5-3 hrs for me.  Today it took 1.75 hrs.

I am now averaging less than 1 2-hr commute a month (versus 2-3 per week before...)

Mike

[cpzilliacus]

Toll on the Dale City to Garrisonville segment SB at about 4:30 this afternoon was $16.45.   The queue to get back onto mainline 95 was about 1/3 mile.

Wonder if Transurban will dare to raise the price even more?

There was a VMS in Woodbridge for mainline 95 saying that the 20 miles to SR 610 Garrisonville would take 54 minutes.  Using the toll lanes it took about 25.

Normally the Thursday afternoon commute on a holiday weekend would run 2.5-3 hrs for me.  Today it took 1.75 hrs.

I am now averaging less than 1 2-hr commute a month (versus 2-3 per week before...)

Clearly you are saving time.  Any idea if you are saving money on fuel?

[Mapmikey]

The toll was only about $5 on this segment on Monday.  It was definitely pretty busy today but still driveable at 75 for 95% of it.

Once in a blue moon I can get all 4 weekly commutes on a tank of gas.  That has not changed.  it's probably a wash with replacing frequent stop-and-go with running 70-75 for much of the distance now.

Mike

[1995hoo]

If anyone's heading southbound on I-95 this afternoon, let us know how the tolls go with the holiday weekend. This is what I'd consider the first real "travel holiday" since tolling operations began. (New Year's didn't count in my mind because so many people take the whole week off, and I don't count Easter because I don't think the level of travel is nearly comparable to Memorial Day.) If you go back to the very first post in this thread, "mtantillo" raised some interesting questions about out-of-town traffic passing through and whether the occasional user might be more likely to shrug off the toll compared to someone who uses it daily. Certainly there's likely to be a higher volume for a longer period of time than you see on a normal Friday, and that pattern is likely to remain (though on a different time cycle since many offices will close early today) throughout the summer.

[cpzilliacus]

If anyone's heading southbound on I-95 this afternoon, let us know how the tolls go with the holiday weekend. This is what I'd consider the first real "travel holiday" since tolling operations began. (New Year's didn't count in my mind because so many people take the whole week off, and I don't count Easter because I don't think the level of travel is nearly comparable to Memorial Day.) If you go back to the very first post in this thread, "mtantillo" raised some interesting questions about out-of-town traffic passing through and whether the occasional user might be more likely to shrug off the toll compared to someone who uses it daily. Certainly there's likely to be a higher volume for a longer period of time than you see on a normal Friday, and that pattern is likely to remain (though on a different time cycle since many offices will close early today) throughout the summer.

Another reason why the Transurban 95 Express Lanes need to be extended south to Fredericksburg or, even better, to Massaponax.

[cpzilliacus]

Washington Post: If we pay to build new HOT lanes, they might be a better deal for commuters

[1995hoo]

I wonder, would the problem at the southern end be alleviated–I deliberately chose not to say "solved"–if there were a single-lane extension that merged into the mainline on the left beyond Exit 143? That way traffic bound for that exit (which has a thriving slug lot) could use the existing flyover, but thru traffic could bypass it and avoid the weave area caused by the flyover's proximity to the interchange.

I know left-side merges are bad and the old one at Dumfries was a problem. In this case, there would at least be two options for how to rejoin the main line.

Just a thought I had. I haven't been through there southbound in several months and I intend to avoid southbound travel beyond Woodbridge this weekend!

[02 Park Ave]

Is there any web-site or APP where one can monitor how the toll rates change during this afternoon?

[jeffandnicole]

I wonder, would the problem at the southern end be alleviated–I deliberately chose not to say "solved"–if there were a single-lane extension that merged into the mainline on the left beyond Exit 143? That way traffic bound for that exit (which has a thriving slug lot) could use the existing flyover, but thru traffic could bypass it and avoid the weave area caused by the flyover's proximity to the interchange.

I know left-side merges are bad and the old one at Dumfries was a problem. In this case, there would at least be two options for how to rejoin the main line.

Just a thought I had. I haven't been through there southbound in several months and I intend to avoid southbound travel beyond Woodbridge this weekend!

Take a page from the NJ Turnpike manual as to how to merge 6 lanes down to 3 lanes. 

The biggest issue will be, unlike the Turnpike's dual-dual section, the HOT lanes aren't in use at all times, so there will be plenty of time where the general use lanes will be impacted from the HOT lanes merging in.