Inspired by the "Favorite Movie Line" thread, I decided to start a catch-all topic for James Bond movies.
I've tried to rank the films in order of favorites before, but with so many films, its a daunting task. I'll try again
1-Goldfinger
2- Skyfall
3-For Your Eyes Only
4- Casino Royale (2006)
5- From Russia With Love
6- Goldeneye
7-Dr. No
8- You only Live Twice
9- On Her Majesty's Secret Service
10-Live and Let Die
11 - The Spy Who Loved Me
12- Spectre
13-Living Daylights
14- Thunderball
15- License to Kill
16- Octopussy
17-Diamonds Are Forever
18-The Man With The Golden Gun
19- The World is Not Enough
20-Tomorrow Never Dies
21-Quantum of Solace
22-A View To A Kill
23-Moonraker
24- Never Say Never Again
25- Die Another Day
The only movies in the series I hate and never watch are Die Another Day and Never Say Never Again (even though Never Say Never Again has my most favorite line in the series:
"Mr. Bond! I've gotten you all wet!"
"That's OK, my martini's still dry.")
Thoughts?
Bond movies are OK. The books, which explore the UK's vain attempt to remain a world power post war and post Suez are deeper.
I cannot rank the movies. As to the Bonds:
Connery was Bond. His version set the pattern for the series. His comeback in the 80s was a mistake.
Brosnan. The closest approximation to Bond in modern times. He was done wrong by NBC, which means he played the character only 4 times and not the 8 to 10 he should have.
Moore. Started strong, but the plots got cartoonish, and Moore hung on too long.
Lazenby. Only did it once. Actually very good performance.
Dalton. Bad actor, dumb plots.
Craig. The series is winding down. Those in charge now do not accept the character as written and have PCed him up. Wooden actor. I really do not consider the current movies part of the series.
Quote from: SP Cook on September 28, 2018, 09:47:48 AM
Craig. The series is winding down. Those in charge now do not accept the character as written and have PCed him up. Wooden actor. I really do not consider the current movies part of the series.
I've only ever read Moonraker, because I was curious how different from the movie the book was. It was more grounded in reality, but still had its outlandish moments
As for Craig.. Craig IS bond, but it's a totally different continuity, starting with Casino Royale. With the MIssion:Impossible movies and the Bourne movies coming along, along with the change in international politics, it had to be done. My only grip is that if Casino Royale was the start of a new continuity (which IIRC, the producers said it was,) then Judi Dench shouldn't have been M. It should have been Lord Voldemort (Can't think of the actor's name right now. Damn, I'm getting old.) from the beginning. I don't find craig wooden at all, and Skyfall, for how "Dark Knight"-ish convoluted the plot was, had some amazing cinematography. The skyscraper assassination sequence was amazingly beautiful.
With Sir Roger Moore I thought that I was watching The Saint rather than a James Bond movie.
Quote from: inkyatari on September 28, 2018, 10:08:46 AM
Quote from: SP Cook on September 28, 2018, 09:47:48 AM
Craig. The series is winding down. Those in charge now do not accept the character as written and have PCed him up. Wooden actor. I really do not consider the current movies part of the series.
I've only ever read Moonraker, because I was curious how different from the movie the book was. It was more grounded in reality, but still had its outlandish moments
As for Craig.. Craig IS bond, but it's a totally different continuity, starting with Casino Royale. With the MIssion:Impossible movies and the Bourne movies coming along, along with the change in international politics, it had to be done. My only grip is that if Casino Royale was the start of a new continuity (which IIRC, the producers said it was,) then Judi Dench shouldn't have been M. It should have been Lord Voldemort (Can't think of the actor's name right now. Damn, I'm getting old.) from the beginning. I don't find craig wooden at all, and Skyfall, for how "Dark Knight"-ish convoluted the plot was, had some amazing cinematography. The skyscraper assassination sequence was amazingly beautiful.
Ralph Fiennes. Judi Dench was awesome as M.
The only thing I don't like about the Daniel Craig films is that Skyfall killed the theory that "James Bond" is a codename, which would have explained why he could've been played by multiple actors.
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on September 28, 2018, 10:41:05 AM
With Sir Roger Moore I thought that I was watching The Saint rather than a James Bond movie.
I think Moore got the short end of the stick, being forced to appear in movies that were ostensibly James Bond movies, but really just attempts to cash in on the popularity of blaxploitation, kung fu, and sci-fi.
Quote from: inkyatari on September 28, 2018, 09:27:35 AM
Inspired by the "Favorite Movie Line" thread, I decided to start a catch-all topic for James Bond movies.
I've tried to rank the films in order of favorites before, but with so many films, its a daunting task. I'll try again
1-Goldfinger
2- Skyfall
3-For Your Eyes Only
4- Casino Royale (2006)
5- From Russia With Love
6- Goldeneye
7-Dr. No
8- You only Live Twice
9- On Her Majesty's Secret Service
10-Live and Let Die
11 - The Spy Who Loved Me
12- Spectre
13-Living Daylights
14- Thunderball
15- License to Kill
16- Octopussy
17-Diamonds Are Forever
18-The Man With The Golden Gun
19- The World is Not Enough
20-Tomorrow Never Dies
21-Quantum of Solace
22-Moonraker
23-A View To A Kill
24- Never Say Never Again
25- Die Another Day
The only movies in the series I hate and never watch are Die Another Day and Never Say Never Again (even though Never Say Never Again has my most favorite line in the series:
"Mr. Bond! I've gotten you all wet!"
"That's OK, my martini's still dry.")
Thoughts?
Moonraker is worse than A View To A Kill - the latter has Christopher Walken and an aw some title track by Duran Duran, and the former has a pigeon doing a double take and Drax's
henchmen fighting soldiers in space with fucking laser guns. Though it does have Jaws.
I agree that Quantum of Solace is the worst of the Craig films to date.
Quote from: abefroman329 on September 28, 2018, 01:02:41 PM
Moonraker is worse than A View To A Kill - the latter has Christopher Walken and an aw some title track by Duran Duran, and the former has a pigeon doing a double take and Drax's
henchmen fighting soldiers in space with fucking laser guns. Though it does have Jaws.
I agree that Quantum of Solace is the worst of the Craig films to date.
You know what? I adjusted my list, because I love Walken.
The thing is, I can watch and enjoy all the films, with the exception of the last two on the list. Quantum of Solace is magnitudes better than them.
Plus, I cut QoS slack, as they were writing the script as they went along, I believe because of a writer's strike.
Quote from: inkyatari on September 28, 2018, 02:12:01 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on September 28, 2018, 01:02:41 PM
Moonraker is worse than A View To A Kill - the latter has Christopher Walken and an aw some title track by Duran Duran, and the former has a pigeon doing a double take and Drax's
henchmen fighting soldiers in space with fucking laser guns. Though it does have Jaws.
I agree that Quantum of Solace is the worst of the Craig films to date.
You know what? I adjusted my list, because I love Walken.
When Zorin (Walken) asks for "More. More power." for the blimp at the end, I can imagine him saying "More. More cowbell."
Roger Moore was 57 when A View to a Kill was filmed, you could tell he was getting too old to be a legit Bond. On the other hand, Daniel Craig will also be 52 when the next James Bond is scheduled for release in 2020.
I always liked On Her Majesty's Secret Service. It was filmed in Switzerland in the same village where I spent vacations as a child and later as an adult. It's interesting to see your favorite vacation spot in a much older movie. Goldfinger was also filmed on some locations in Switzerland which I have visited, for example the Furka Pass when it was still unpaved.
The theme songs also stand out for me.
Quote from: Chris on September 28, 2018, 03:04:03 PM
Roger Moore was 57 when A View to a Kill was filmed, you could tell he was getting too old to be a legit Bond. On the other hand, Daniel Craig will also be 52 when the next James Bond is scheduled for release in 2020.
I always liked On Her Majesty's Secret Service.
Lazenby was only 29 when he played Bond. He was the youngest actor to do the role.
Quote from: Chris on September 28, 2018, 03:04:03 PM
Roger Moore was 57 when A View to a Kill was filmed, you could tell he was getting too old to be a legit Bond. On the other hand, Daniel Craig will also be 52 when the next James Bond is scheduled for release in 2020.
I heard that Roger didn't want to do "A View To A Kill," because even he thought he was too old, but he did it as a personal favor to Cubby Broccoli. There's a lot of stories behind the making of that one, mostly to do with how nobody got along with Grace Jones. Dolph Lundgren had an early bit role in the film as a henchman. I didn't realize that the role of Max Zorin was offered to David Bowie and Sting.
I'll always have a soft spot for To Live and Let Die. I had just turned thirteen, and two of my older brothers took me to see the movie as a birthday/introduction into teenhood present.
Quote from: inkyatari on September 28, 2018, 03:25:38 PM
Quote from: Chris on September 28, 2018, 03:04:03 PM
Roger Moore was 57 when A View to a Kill was filmed, you could tell he was getting too old to be a legit Bond. On the other hand, Daniel Craig will also be 52 when the next James Bond is scheduled for release in 2020.
I heard that Roger didn't want to do "A View To A Kill," because even he thought he was too old, but he did it as a personal favor to Cubby Broccoli. There's a lot of stories behind the making of that one, mostly to do with how nobody got along with Grace Jones. Dolph Lundgren had an early bit role in the film as a henchman. I didn't realize that the role of Max Zorin was offered to David Bowie and Sting.
I think that's the one where he said he saw the final film and thought the Bond girl could've been his granddaughter, can't remember if that was Moonraker. He also said he was disgusted with the scene where Zorin is mowing down his henchmen with a machine gun and laughing hysterically.
I also heard that, during the scene at the mine where Tanya Roberts is wearing a jumpsuit, it was supposed to be a bulky one, but she insisted on a tailored one to show off her figure. Bond's line upon seeing her, "Pity you couldn't find one that fit" or something similar, was not supposed to be ironic. I think she was the worst Bond girl till Denise Richards came along.
Quote from: Brandon on September 28, 2018, 03:00:23 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on September 28, 2018, 02:12:01 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on September 28, 2018, 01:02:41 PM
Moonraker is worse than A View To A Kill - the latter has Christopher Walken and an aw some title track by Duran Duran, and the former has a pigeon doing a double take and Drax's
henchmen fighting soldiers in space with fucking laser guns. Though it does have Jaws.
I agree that Quantum of Solace is the worst of the Craig films to date.
You know what? I adjusted my list, because I love Walken.
When Zorin (Walken) asks for "More. More power." for the blimp at the end, I can imagine him saying "More. More cowbell."
I really love that Zorin was supposed to be, like, a Nazi test-tube baby raised in Europe, yet Walken rocks his Astoria, Queens accent, with the exception of the line "Right on schedule," which he pronounces "shed-jewel."
Quote from: abefroman329 on September 28, 2018, 03:52:38 PM
Quote from: Brandon on September 28, 2018, 03:00:23 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on September 28, 2018, 02:12:01 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on September 28, 2018, 01:02:41 PM
Moonraker is worse than A View To A Kill - the latter has Christopher Walken and an aw some title track by Duran Duran, and the former has a pigeon doing a double take and Drax's
henchmen fighting soldiers in space with fucking laser guns. Though it does have Jaws.
I agree that Quantum of Solace is the worst of the Craig films to date.
You know what? I adjusted my list, because I love Walken.
When Zorin (Walken) asks for "More. More power." for the blimp at the end, I can imagine him saying "More. More cowbell."
I really love that Zorin was supposed to be, like, a Nazi test-tube baby raised in Europe, yet Walken rocks his Astoria, Queens accent, with the exception of the line "Right on schedule," which he pronounces "shed-jewel."
That was the only thing I disliked about Christopher Walken's character in the film.
I'm curious as to what David Bowie would have done with the role.
Quote from: inkyatari on September 28, 2018, 04:14:52 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on September 28, 2018, 03:52:38 PM
Quote from: Brandon on September 28, 2018, 03:00:23 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on September 28, 2018, 02:12:01 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on September 28, 2018, 01:02:41 PM
Moonraker is worse than A View To A Kill - the latter has Christopher Walken and an aw some title track by Duran Duran, and the former has a pigeon doing a double take and Drax's
henchmen fighting soldiers in space with fucking laser guns. Though it does have Jaws.
I agree that Quantum of Solace is the worst of the Craig films to date.
You know what? I adjusted my list, because I love Walken.
When Zorin (Walken) asks for "More. More power." for the blimp at the end, I can imagine him saying "More. More cowbell."
I really love that Zorin was supposed to be, like, a Nazi test-tube baby raised in Europe, yet Walken rocks his Astoria, Queens accent, with the exception of the line "Right on schedule," which he pronounces "shed-jewel."
That was the only thing I disliked about Christopher Walken's character in the film.
I'm curious as to what David Bowie would have done with the role.
Oh, that would have been so awesome.
Quote from: abefroman329 on September 28, 2018, 04:19:01 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on September 28, 2018, 04:14:52 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on September 28, 2018, 03:52:38 PM
Quote from: Brandon on September 28, 2018, 03:00:23 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on September 28, 2018, 02:12:01 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on September 28, 2018, 01:02:41 PM
Moonraker is worse than A View To A Kill - the latter has Christopher Walken and an aw some title track by Duran Duran, and the former has a pigeon doing a double take and Drax's
henchmen fighting soldiers in space with fucking laser guns. Though it does have Jaws.
I agree that Quantum of Solace is the worst of the Craig films to date.
You know what? I adjusted my list, because I love Walken.
When Zorin (Walken) asks for "More. More power." for the blimp at the end, I can imagine him saying "More. More cowbell."
I really love that Zorin was supposed to be, like, a Nazi test-tube baby raised in Europe, yet Walken rocks his Astoria, Queens accent, with the exception of the line "Right on schedule," which he pronounces "shed-jewel."
That was the only thing I disliked about Christopher Walken's character in the film.
I'm curious as to what David Bowie would have done with the role.
Oh, that would have been so awesome.
Labyrinth meets 007.
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on September 28, 2018, 10:41:05 AM
With Sir Roger Moore I thought that I was watching The Saint rather than a James Bond movie.
Speaking of the Saint. There was a clip from an episode of the Saint who predicted the future.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCpnXVU6JgI
We could also talk of the actors who was considerated for the role of James Bond but was rejected or some actors who declined the offer to perform the role of 007 like Adam West.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u09IHmW7PsQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r7xZGrpc5s
Quote from: inkyatari on September 28, 2018, 09:27:35 AM
Inspired by the "Favorite Movie Line" thread, I decided to start a catch-all topic for James Bond movies.
I've tried to rank the films in order of favorites before, but with so many films, its a daunting task. I'll try again
1-Goldfinger
2- Skyfall
3-For Your Eyes Only
4- Casino Royale (2006)
5- From Russia With Love
6- Goldeneye
7-Dr. No
8- You only Live Twice
9- On Her Majesty's Secret Service
10-Live and Let Die
11 - The Spy Who Loved Me
12- Spectre
13-Living Daylights
14- Thunderball
15- License to Kill
16- Octopussy
17-Diamonds Are Forever
18-The Man With The Golden Gun
19- The World is Not Enough
20-Tomorrow Never Dies
21-Quantum of Solace
22-A View To A Kill
23-Moonraker
24- Never Say Never Again
25- Die Another Day
The only movies in the series I hate and never watch are Die Another Day and Never Say Never Again (even though Never Say Never Again has my most favorite line in the series:
"Mr. Bond! I've gotten you all wet!"
"That's OK, my martini's still dry.")
Thoughts?
You forgot to rank Casino Royale (1967).
"Goldfinger" by far is my fave. It has such a great Sixties vibe! As a villain, Goldfinger had a lot of class. His bodyguard, Oddjob, for a one-off character, was very memorable. This was also the first movie with a Ford Mustang, which had just been released.
Now imagine calling a character in a mainstream movie "Pussy Galore". I am amazed the name was used even back then. It sounds like a moniker for a porn star!
Rick
Goldfimger is the last Bomd film with any semblance to the Fleming books.
Quote from: nexus73 on September 28, 2018, 07:47:39 PM
"Goldfinger" by far is my fave. It has such a great Sixties vibe! As a villain, Goldfinger had a lot of class. His bodyguard, Oddjob, for a one-off character, was very memorable. This was also the first movie with a Ford Mustang, which had just been released.
One of the alltime best movie fight scenes. Almost no music, just quiet action.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H8UkrKN2rQ
Quote from: nexus73 on September 28, 2018, 07:47:39 PM
"Goldfinger" by far is my fave. It has such a great Sixties vibe! As a villain, Goldfinger had a lot of class. His bodyguard, Oddjob, for a one-off character, was very memorable. This was also the first movie with a Ford Mustang, which had just been released.
Now imagine calling a character in a mainstream movie "Pussy Galore". I am amazed the name was used even back then. It sounds like a moniker for a porn star!
Rick
Or the following exchange:
"I'm Plenty."
"Of course you are."
"Plenty O'Toole."
"Named for your father, I see."
Quote from: abefroman329 on September 28, 2018, 12:57:13 PM
The only thing I don't like about the Daniel Craig films is that Skyfall killed the theory that "James Bond" is a codename, which would have explained why he could've been played by multiple actors.
It was a subtle nod, but this was likely killed much earlier. In the first scene of For Your Eyes Only, Roger Moore's Bond visited the grave of Bond's wife killed in the Lazenby film. I think there was also a reference to Bond being "married once" in another film, which Bond grimaces at as an unhappy memory.
Quote from: SP Cook on September 28, 2018, 09:47:48 AMMoore hung on too long.
The last couple of films he needed a lot of persuading to do - he'd publicly expressed that he was too old after
For Your Eyes Only, and they tested people, but failed to find someone, hence they badgered Mr Can't-open-his-own-safe-let-alone-crack-one.
QuoteI really do not consider the current movies part of the series.
Absolutely. They aren't Bond films in the way that the others are, but films with someone called Bond who has a passing resemblance due to wise-cracking, womanising (to an extent, though Craig is the only Bond to cross the consent line) and alcoholism, but who actually is more like other JB spies - Jason Bourne and Jack Bauer.
That said, I enjoyed them a lot (except for Spectre, which I couldn't get into, and fell asleep trying to watch). It's a reboot and it's perfectly decent - but there's a disjoint.
Quote from: english si on September 29, 2018, 08:59:22 AM
Quote from: SP Cook on September 28, 2018, 09:47:48 AMMoore hung on too long.
The last couple of films he needed a lot of persuading to do - he'd publicly expressed that he was too old after For Your Eyes Only, and they tested people, but failed to find someone, hence they badgered Mr Can't-open-his-own-safe-let-alone-crack-one.
QuoteI really do not consider the current movies part of the series.
Absolutely. They aren't Bond films in the way that the others are, but films with someone called Bond who has a passing resemblance due to wise-cracking, womanising (to an extent, though Craig is the only Bond to cross the consent line) and alcoholism, but who actually is more like other JB spies - Jason Bourne and Jack Bauer.
That said, I enjoyed them a lot (except for Spectre, which I couldn't get into, and fell asleep trying to watch). It's a reboot and it's perfectly decent - but there's a disjoint.
Spectre completely ruined what was being built up in the previous three movies. Granted Skyfall never hinted at a secret organization from what I recall. I didn't care for Quantum of Solace on the first watch but it has grown on me over time.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on September 29, 2018, 04:32:52 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on September 28, 2018, 12:57:13 PM
The only thing I don't like about the Daniel Craig films is that Skyfall killed the theory that "James Bond" is a codename, which would have explained why he could've been played by multiple actors.
It was a subtle nod, but this was likely killed much earlier. In the first scene of For Your Eyes Only, Roger Moore's Bond visited the grave of Bond's wife killed in the Lazenby film. I think there was also a reference to Bond being "married once" in another film, which Bond grimaces at as an unhappy memory.
Speaking of "For you eyes only", the best part is the car chase when he escape from the bad guys with a Citroen 2CV.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvJp1X3qiog
And in the Roger Moore era, I wonder if the character of Sheriff J.W. Pepper might had serve of prototype for Sheriff Bufford T. Justice of "Smokey and the Bandit"?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjG65N-jbqw
Had sheriffs Justice & Pepper ever got together, the Bandit & Snowman would never have made it to Atlanta from Texarkana. :-D :spin:
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on September 29, 2018, 04:32:52 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on September 28, 2018, 12:57:13 PM
The only thing I don't like about the Daniel Craig films is that Skyfall killed the theory that "James Bond" is a codename, which would have explained why he could've been played by multiple actors.
It was a subtle nod, but this was likely killed much earlier. In the first scene of For Your Eyes Only, Roger Moore's Bond visited the grave of Bond's wife killed in the Lazenby film. I think there was also a reference to Bond being "married once" in another film, which Bond grimaces at as an unhappy memory.
Oh yes, you are right. But referring to Skyfall as "the Bond family estate" squashed the hell out of that theory.
There's an interesting side note to the mid-80's transition from Moore to Dalton via the Brosnan "mess": Broccoli & Co. had been trying, without success, to convince John Gardner, the most prolific of the Bond continuation authors (14 novels from 1981-96 plus the "novelization" of License To Kill), to assign them the rights to his novels. When the Fleming estate hired him to write those novels, he had it written into his contract that no film could me made of any of his works without his express permission; he had had a bad experience with the 1966 film of his novel The Liquidator, which he considered not even close to the source material. And he absolutely despised the interpretation of Bond in the Moore films, much of which he attributed to Moore himself. So as long as Roger Moore was the reigning Bond, Gardner wouldn't even consider the production company filming one of his novels. After Moore stepped down in 1985, Broccoli once again approached Gardner, who had a reputation for being a bit money-hungry (he'd moved to the U.S. by then to avoid UK taxes), to assign the rights to his books. Gardner expressed interest, but wanted to see how the Bond actor situation progressed. When Brosnan was "penciled in" as the new Bond in early 1986, Gardner was skeptical because of the actor's youth (32 at the time); but when that casting fell through and Timothy Dalton, some 8 years older, was hired, Gardner's interest in contributing his novels to the series increased significantly -- but he wanted to see how Dalton fared in a stand-alone film, which was The Living Daylights. He was supplied a copy of that film a month or so prior to its release in mid-'87; and he approved of Dalton's Bond. So a tentative agreement was made: Gardner would assign the rights to the first five of his books under a number of conditions: Dalton or another actor acceptable to Gardner would portray Bond; Gardner would get story credit for these films and have full script approval prior to filming; and the novels would be filmed in the order written. Plus -- Gardner would receive $2M for each novel against a percentage of the net profits; i.e., a typical movie "back-end" deal. The first novel in the series was License Renewed, set a few years after the "00" section had been terminated and Bond reassigned to other intelligence and instructor duties -- but which is reactivated as a single-person (Bond) section to track down a terrorist modeled after the infamous "Carlos (the Jackal)". Gardner and screenwriter Richard Maibaum came up with a concept for a transitional film to be called "License Revoked", where Bond goes "rogue" to avenge a wrong done to his friend Felix Leiter -- to be followed by the film of the book License Renewed, slightly "massaged" to accommodate the previous storyline. Gardner then wrote a novel of "License Revoked" to serve as both the basic story line and the film's eventual novelization. But he wanted advance payment of $12 million to cover that novel plus the five to be filmed. United Artists, by then full partners in Bond film production, balked at this lump-sum simply because they were in precarious financial straits at the time. Gardner got royally pissed off at this, withdrew his 5-novel offer, but agreed to provide the new novel as the basis for the next Bond film -- providing he was paid $1M for his efforts plus novel royalties, of course -- and the title was changed to omit any reference to his existing novels. Broccoli agreed, paid him the million, and the film's title was changed to "License To Kill" (and, yes, the novelization follows the script almost exactly!). Gardner continued to write his Bond novels for another seven years, but absolutely refused to reconsider his decision to not allow his books to be filmed as long as United Artists were involved with the production. He died in 2007, but apparently there has been no agreement since that time between his estate and the Broccoli organization regarding using his works.
It would have been interesting to see how his novels would have translated into film, as he attempted to "modernize" the then middle-aged Bond, who -- in the Gardner novels -- grudgingly accepted modernity, computerization, and other aspects of modern life while retaining his sense of propriety. I had the good fortune to meet John Gardner back in 1989, right after all of the above transpired, at a signing of his Bond book Win, Lose, or Die in suburban Virginia, not far from his Loudon County home. Being the last person that day to approach him with a book to autograph, we struck up a conversation that extended to a cocktail lounge in Vienna, where the signing was taking place -- and at which I staked him to, IIRC, 3 or 4 bourbon-on-the-rocks while waiting for his driver to pick him up. I had heard rumors about what had transpired with the film producers, and he was more than willing to fill me in on the details as long as I "kept 'em coming". A bit arrogant and a little conceited, he definitely considered his novels to be the true continuation of the Bond saga, while the films were simply a "sideshow" to keep the public interested in the character. A few days earlier he had screened (at home) the film License to Kill; since it was more or less a literal interpretation of his original story, he thought it was one of the few Bond films (at least since the Connery era) that he could recommend wholeheartedly. After about 45 minutes his driver showed up and he excused himself. Since my D.C.-area trip was to do research for my then-pending masters' thesis, the Gardner interlude was a welcome break from digging through microfiche (still the archival standard in '89).
Quote from: abefroman329 on September 28, 2018, 12:57:13 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on September 28, 2018, 10:08:46 AM
Quote from: SP Cook on September 28, 2018, 09:47:48 AM
Craig. The series is winding down. Those in charge now do not accept the character as written and have PCed him up. Wooden actor. I really do not consider the current movies part of the series.
I've only ever read Moonraker, because I was curious how different from the movie the book was. It was more grounded in reality, but still had its outlandish moments
As for Craig.. Craig IS bond, but it's a totally different continuity, starting with Casino Royale. With the MIssion:Impossible movies and the Bourne movies coming along, along with the change in international politics, it had to be done. My only grip is that if Casino Royale was the start of a new continuity (which IIRC, the producers said it was,) then Judi Dench shouldn't have been M. It should have been Lord Voldemort (Can't think of the actor's name right now. Damn, I'm getting old.) from the beginning. I don't find craig wooden at all, and Skyfall, for how "Dark Knight"-ish convoluted the plot was, had some amazing cinematography. The skyscraper assassination sequence was amazingly beautiful.
Ralph Fiennes. Judi Dench was awesome as M.
The only thing I don't like about the Daniel Craig films is that Skyfall killed the theory that "James Bond" is a codename, which would have explained why he could've been played by multiple actors.
That's why I consider Skyfall a different continuity, starting with Casino Royale. Someone else mentioned Bond being married. That was in Goldeneye.
Quote from: Stephane Dumas on September 28, 2018, 06:24:04 PM
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on September 28, 2018, 10:41:05 AM
With Sir Roger Moore I thought that I was watching The Saint rather than a James Bond movie.
Speaking of the Saint. There was a clip from an episode of the Saint who predicted the future.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCpnXVU6JgI
We could also talk of the actors who was considerated for the role of James Bond but was rejected or some actors who declined the offer to perform the role of 007 like Adam West.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u09IHmW7PsQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r7xZGrpc5s
More recently, it's been reported that Clint Eastwood had been approached to fill the role. I don't know if that was true or not, but I still couldn't see it.
Quote from: abefroman329 on September 28, 2018, 06:54:11 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on September 28, 2018, 09:27:35 AM
Inspired by the "Favorite Movie Line" thread, I decided to start a catch-all topic for James Bond movies.
I've tried to rank the films in order of favorites before, but with so many films, its a daunting task. I'll try again
1-Goldfinger
2- Skyfall
3-For Your Eyes Only
4- Casino Royale (2006)
5- From Russia With Love
6- Goldeneye
7-Dr. No
8- You only Live Twice
9- On Her Majesty's Secret Service
10-Live and Let Die
11 - The Spy Who Loved Me
12- Spectre
13-Living Daylights
14- Thunderball
15- License to Kill
16- Octopussy
17-Diamonds Are Forever
18-The Man With The Golden Gun
19- The World is Not Enough
20-Tomorrow Never Dies
21-Quantum of Solace
22-A View To A Kill
23-Moonraker
24- Never Say Never Again
25- Die Another Day
The only movies in the series I hate and never watch are Die Another Day and Never Say Never Again (even though Never Say Never Again has my most favorite line in the series:
"Mr. Bond! I've gotten you all wet!"
"That's OK, my martini's still dry.")
Thoughts?
You forgot to rank Casino Royale (1967).
I didn't forget that. I don't consider it a true Bond film.
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on September 28, 2018, 10:14:43 PM
Goldfimger is the last Bomd film with any semblance to the Fleming books.
Even that had to be massaged for the screen, because of the gaping plot hole in the novel, which they so brilliantly fixed in the film.
Going forward, I'd like to see all the Ian Fleming novels refilmed, staying true to the source material, but in a Japanese Anime style cartoon. I think that could work.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on September 29, 2018, 04:32:52 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on September 28, 2018, 12:57:13 PM
The only thing I don't like about the Daniel Craig films is that Skyfall killed the theory that "James Bond" is a codename, which would have explained why he could've been played by multiple actors.
It was a subtle nod, but this was likely killed much earlier. In the first scene of For Your Eyes Only, Roger Moore's Bond visited the grave of Bond's wife killed in the Lazenby film. I think there was also a reference to Bond being "married once" in another film, which Bond grimaces at as an unhappy memory.
"The Spy Who Loved Me" contained that line. The Russian Agent XXX states such when she first meets Bond.
Given that the earlier Bond movies all were
based on the Ian Fleming novels; such continuity references are to be expected.
Quote from: sparker on October 01, 2018, 03:23:41 AM
There's an interesting side note to the mid-80's transition from Moore to Dalton via the Brosnan "mess": Broccoli & Co. had been trying, without success, to convince John Gardner, the most prolific of the Bond continuation authors (14 novels from 1981-96 plus the "novelization" of License To Kill), to assign them the rights to his novels. When the Fleming estate hired him to write those novels, he had it written into his contract that no film could me made of any of his works without his express permission; he had had a bad experience with the 1966 film of his novel The Liquidator, which he considered not even close to the source material. And he absolutely despised the interpretation of Bond in the Moore films, much of which he attributed to Moore himself. So as long as Roger Moore was the reigning Bond, Gardner wouldn't even consider the production company filming one of his novels. After Moore stepped down in 1985, Broccoli once again approached Gardner, who had a reputation for being a bit money-hungry (he'd moved to the U.S. by then to avoid UK taxes), to assign the rights to his books. Gardner expressed interest, but wanted to see how the Bond actor situation progressed. When Brosnan was "penciled in" as the new Bond in early 1986, Gardner was skeptical because of the actor's youth (32 at the time); but when that casting fell through and Timothy Dalton, some 8 years older, was hired, Gardner's interest in contributing his novels to the series increased significantly -- but he wanted to see how Dalton fared in a stand-alone film, which was The Living Daylights. He was supplied a copy of that film a month or so prior to its release in mid-'87; and he approved of Dalton's Bond. So a tentative agreement was made: Gardner would assign the rights to the first five of his books under a number of conditions: Dalton or another actor acceptable to Gardner would portray Bond; Gardner would get story credit for these films and have full script approval prior to filming; and the novels would be filmed in the order written. Plus -- Gardner would receive $2M for each novel against a percentage of the net profits; i.e., a typical movie "back-end" deal. The first novel in the series was License Renewed, set a few years after the "00" section had been terminated and Bond reassigned to other intelligence and instructor duties -- but which is reactivated as a single-person (Bond) section to track down a terrorist modeled after the infamous "Carlos (the Jackal)". Gardner and screenwriter Richard Maibaum came up with a concept for a transitional film to be called "License Revoked", where Bond goes "rogue" to avenge a wrong done to his friend Felix Leiter -- to be followed by the film of the book License Renewed, slightly "massaged" to accommodate the previous storyline. Gardner then wrote a novel of "License Revoked" to serve as both the basic story line and the film's eventual novelization. But he wanted advance payment of $12 million to cover that novel plus the five to be filmed. United Artists, by then full partners in Bond film production, balked at this lump-sum simply because they were in precarious financial straits at the time. Gardner got royally pissed off at this, withdrew his 5-novel offer, but agreed to provide the new novel as the basis for the next Bond film -- providing he was paid $1M for his efforts plus novel royalties, of course -- and the title was changed to omit any reference to his existing novels. Broccoli agreed, paid him the million, and the film's title was changed to "License To Kill" (and, yes, the novelization follows the script almost exactly!). Gardner continued to write his Bond novels for another seven years, but absolutely refused to reconsider his decision to not allow his books to be filmed as long as United Artists were involved with the production. He died in 2007, but apparently there has been no agreement since that time between his estate and the Broccoli organization regarding using his works.
It would have been interesting to see how his novels would have translated into film, as he attempted to "modernize" the then middle-aged Bond, who -- in the Gardner novels -- grudgingly accepted modernity, computerization, and other aspects of modern life while retaining his sense of propriety. I had the good fortune to meet John Gardner back in 1989, right after all of the above transpired, at a signing of his Bond book Win, Lose, or Die in suburban Virginia, not far from his Loudon County home. Being the last person that day to approach him with a book to autograph, we struck up a conversation that extended to a cocktail lounge in Vienna, where the signing was taking place -- and at which I staked him to, IIRC, 3 or 4 bourbon-on-the-rocks while waiting for his driver to pick him up. I had heard rumors about what had transpired with the film producers, and he was more than willing to fill me in on the details as long as I "kept 'em coming". A bit arrogant and a little conceited, he definitely considered his novels to be the true continuation of the Bond saga, while the films were simply a "sideshow" to keep the public interested in the character. A few days earlier he had screened (at home) the film License to Kill; since it was more or less a literal interpretation of his original story, he thought it was one of the few Bond films (at least since the Connery era) that he could recommend wholeheartedly. After about 45 minutes his driver showed up an he excused himself. Since my D.C.-area trip was to do research for my then-pending masters' thesis, the Gardner interlude was a welcome break from digging through microfiche (still the archival standard in '89).
Great story. Thank you for sharing it.
Quote from: sparker on October 01, 2018, 03:23:41 AM
There's an interesting side note to the mid-80's transition from Moore to Dalton via the Brosnan "mess": Broccoli & Co. had been trying, without success, to convince John Gardner, the most prolific of the Bond continuation authors (14 novels from 1981-96 plus the "novelization" of License To Kill), to assign them the rights to his novels. When the Fleming estate hired him to write those novels, he had it written into his contract that no film could me made of any of his works without his express permission; he had had a bad experience with the 1966 film of his novel The Liquidator, which he considered not even close to the source material. And he absolutely despised the interpretation of Bond in the Moore films, much of which he attributed to Moore himself. So as long as Roger Moore was the reigning Bond, Gardner wouldn't even consider the production company filming one of his novels. After Moore stepped down in 1985, Broccoli once again approached Gardner, who had a reputation for being a bit money-hungry (he'd moved to the U.S. by then to avoid UK taxes), to assign the rights to his books. Gardner expressed interest, but wanted to see how the Bond actor situation progressed. When Brosnan was "penciled in" as the new Bond in early 1986, Gardner was skeptical because of the actor's youth (32 at the time); but when that casting fell through and Timothy Dalton, some 8 years older, was hired, Gardner's interest in contributing his novels to the series increased significantly -- but he wanted to see how Dalton fared in a stand-alone film, which was The Living Daylights. He was supplied a copy of that film a month or so prior to its release in mid-'87; and he approved of Dalton's Bond. So a tentative agreement was made: Gardner would assign the rights to the first five of his books under a number of conditions: Dalton or another actor acceptable to Gardner would portray Bond; Gardner would get story credit for these films and have full script approval prior to filming; and the novels would be filmed in the order written. Plus -- Gardner would receive $2M for each novel against a percentage of the net profits; i.e., a typical movie "back-end" deal. The first novel in the series was License Renewed, set a few years after the "00" section had been terminated and Bond reassigned to other intelligence and instructor duties -- but which is reactivated as a single-person (Bond) section to track down a terrorist modeled after the infamous "Carlos (the Jackal)". Gardner and screenwriter Richard Maibaum came up with a concept for a transitional film to be called "License Revoked", where Bond goes "rogue" to avenge a wrong done to his friend Felix Leiter -- to be followed by the film of the book License Renewed, slightly "massaged" to accommodate the previous storyline. Gardner then wrote a novel of "License Revoked" to serve as both the basic story line and the film's eventual novelization. But he wanted advance payment of $12 million to cover that novel plus the five to be filmed. United Artists, by then full partners in Bond film production, balked at this lump-sum simply because they were in precarious financial straits at the time. Gardner got royally pissed off at this, withdrew his 5-novel offer, but agreed to provide the new novel as the basis for the next Bond film -- providing he was paid $1M for his efforts plus novel royalties, of course -- and the title was changed to omit any reference to his existing novels. Broccoli agreed, paid him the million, and the film's title was changed to "License To Kill" (and, yes, the novelization follows the script almost exactly!). Gardner continued to write his Bond novels for another seven years, but absolutely refused to reconsider his decision to not allow his books to be filmed as long as United Artists were involved with the production. He died in 2007, but apparently there has been no agreement since that time between his estate and the Broccoli organization regarding using his works.
It would have been interesting to see how his novels would have translated into film, as he attempted to "modernize" the then middle-aged Bond, who -- in the Gardner novels -- grudgingly accepted modernity, computerization, and other aspects of modern life while retaining his sense of propriety. I had the good fortune to meet John Gardner back in 1989, right after all of the above transpired, at a signing of his Bond book Win, Lose, or Die in suburban Virginia, not far from his Loudon County home. Being the last person that day to approach him with a book to autograph, we struck up a conversation that extended to a cocktail lounge in Vienna, where the signing was taking place -- and at which I staked him to, IIRC, 3 or 4 bourbon-on-the-rocks while waiting for his driver to pick him up. I had heard rumors about what had transpired with the film producers, and he was more than willing to fill me in on the details as long as I "kept 'em coming". A bit arrogant and a little conceited, he definitely considered his novels to be the true continuation of the Bond saga, while the films were simply a "sideshow" to keep the public interested in the character. A few days earlier he had screened (at home) the film License to Kill; since it was more or less a literal interpretation of his original story, he thought it was one of the few Bond films (at least since the Connery era) that he could recommend wholeheartedly. After about 45 minutes his driver showed up an he excused himself. Since my D.C.-area trip was to do research for my then-pending masters' thesis, the Gardner interlude was a welcome break from digging through microfiche (still the archival standard in '89).
Damn. Great story!
^^^^^^^
Fleming's original characterization of Bond, starting in 1953, was a man who was borderline depressive and borderline alcoholic, burdened down with self-doubt and questions about his role as an "officially licensed killer" (likely traits Fleming recognized in himself and channeled into his novels). But while such might be a proper basis for a modern film's "antihero", it didn't fly in the early '60's when the first films were released; Bond needed to be virtually superhuman and indestructible, with self-confidence on full display. When Gardner assumed authorship of the novel series in the '80's, he simply "matured" Bond out of his early malaise, replacing the depression and over-imbibing with a calculated cynicism and measured pleasure, plus a sense of purpose in his job (Gardner was an unmitigated Tory!). Trust was a rare commodity in Gardner's works; one repeated theme in his novels was betrayal by formerly trusted colleagues. The novels got darker and darker as the series progressed; his last, 1996's Cold Fall (released in Europe as simply COLD) was unmitigatingly brutal, cynical, and ultimately depressing. It was if Gardner wanted Bond to shed the middle-aged confidence the later author had imbued him with and revert to his former introspective self. Curiously, once Gardner had completed the novel he pulled up stakes and moved to Switzerland, where he spent the remainder of his years.
On another note -- I've said a few controversial things on this forum over the time I've been contributing, but I'm about to do something that might eclipse even my grudging acceptance of I-14: I'm going to rank the 24 "official" Bond films -- also mentioning where I'd place the "unoffical" Never Say Never Again within the canon; all this with a brief synopsis regarding each ranking slot. Working on it when I have the time; will post it within a week or so.
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 01, 2018, 09:17:20 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on September 29, 2018, 04:32:52 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on September 28, 2018, 12:57:13 PM
The only thing I don't like about the Daniel Craig films is that Skyfall killed the theory that "James Bond" is a codename, which would have explained why he could've been played by multiple actors.
It was a subtle nod, but this was likely killed much earlier. In the first scene of For Your Eyes Only, Roger Moore's Bond visited the grave of Bond's wife killed in the Lazenby film. I think there was also a reference to Bond being "married once" in another film, which Bond grimaces at as an unhappy memory.
"The Spy Who Loved Me" contained that line. The Russian Agent XXX states such when she first meets Bond.
Given that the earlier Bond movies all were based on the Ian Fleming novels; such continuity references are to be expected.
As I said a little further up, it was also referenced in Goldeneye
Quote from: sparker on October 01, 2018, 04:17:15 PM
Fleming's original characterization of Bond, starting in 1953, was a man who was borderline depressive and borderline alcoholic, burdened down with self-doubt and questions about his role as an "officially licensed killer" (likely traits Fleming recognized in himself and channeled into his novels). But while such might be a proper basis for a modern film's "antihero", it didn't fly in the early '60's when the first films were released; Bond needed to be virtually superhuman and indestructible, with self-confidence on full display.
Not exactly ... while he was quite resourceful in winning various battles, they were often closely won things where he didn't seem quite up to the task, such as the fight with Oddjob where it even took a bit of luck for Bond to have the severed electric cable available at the right moment to electrocute Oddjob. He would seem to be slightly inept or not having enough killer instinct, but somehow found a way to win the battles.
Of course a lot of the battles were a bit fanciful or even indirectly humorous, such as Bond's sport jacket remaining buttoned thruout the battle with Oddjob, and him gaining access to Oddjob's hat which was the first time that Oddjob was actually fearful, and then it looked like there must have been 50,000 volts running thru that cable given the light show that it produced when shorted to the metal bars.
I like Timothy Dalton's Bond. But I think the darkness and violence of his two films (especially License to Kill) were too ahead of their time.
I like Pierce Brosnan's Bond too. I don't know the story behind his departure, but ISTR he was publicly critical of the franchise's direction after Die Another Day. Rightfully so, since that was a dreadful movie -- John Cleese was a terrible successor to Desmond Llewelyn's Q, and the invisible car... well, the less said about that, the better. But that criticism didn't endear him to the producers.
We're at the point now where Bond, Star Wars, Star Trek, and Mission Impossible have interchangeable scripts. Chases and explosions!
Quote from: wanderer2575 on October 02, 2018, 12:31:38 AM
I like Timothy Dalton's Bond. But I think the darkness and violence of his two films (especially License to Kill) were too ahead of their time.
I like Pierce Brosnan's Bond too. I don't know the story behind his departure, but ISTR he was publicly critical of the franchise's direction after Die Another Day. Rightfully so, since that was a dreadful movie -- John Cleese was a terrible successor to Desmond Llewelyn's Q, and the invisible car... well, the less said about that, the better. But that criticism didn't endear him to the producers.
We're at the point now where Bond, Star Wars, Star Trek, and Mission Impossible have interchangeable scripts. Chases and explosions!
License To Kill, with a John Gardner-devised storyline (albeit uncredited at Gardner's request), was, in a cinematic sense, quite a departure from any Bond adventure previously filmed. It seemed to be more of a strictly revenge film than the typical Bond fare -- almost to a
Lethal Weapon level -- right down to a Michael Kamen score (a last-minute substitution when John Barry fell seriously ill in late 1988).
Like Dalton before him, Brosnan became increasingly frustrated at the "down time" after the 2002
Die Another Day release, again due to MGM's dire financial straits. By 2004 his withering criticism of both MGM and Barbara Broccoli's inability to secure the franchise's future had irreparably strained their relationship to the point that neither party wanted to deal with the other -- the parting of the ways was inevitable. The following year -- right after Broccoli and Co. secured the rights to the first Fleming novel,
Casino Royale, the decision was made to completely "reboot" the franchise by making that novel the basis for a Bond "origin" film -- which, of course, would require a new actor. By the end of that year the casting choice had come down to Clive Owen or Daniel Craig; with the latter getting the final nod because he was 5 years younger and had the greatest chance of extending the franchise, since increased production costs had lengthened the space between film releases. IMO, the "reboot" idea was the best thing the producers could have done with the franchise being a bit "long in the tooth" at 20 films over 44 years.
Quote from: wanderer2575 on October 02, 2018, 12:31:38 AM
I like Timothy Dalton's Bond. But I think the darkness and violence of his two films (especially License to Kill) were too ahead of their time.
I like Pierce Brosnan's Bond too. I don't know the story behind his departure, but ISTR he was publicly critical of the franchise's direction after Die Another Day. Rightfully so, since that was a dreadful movie -- John Cleese was a terrible successor to Desmond Llewelyn's Q, and the invisible car... well, the less said about that, the better. But that criticism didn't endear him to the producers.
We're at the point now where Bond, Star Wars, Star Trek, and Mission Impossible have interchangeable scripts. Chases and explosions!
The invisible car is actually the single thing I cut Die Another Day some slack on, because around that time I had been reading stories of how the UK government was actually pursuing development of one. As for John Cleese, I thought, at first, that it was an inspired choice, but then he went all Monty Python on the role, which I should have expected. I currently think that Ben Wishaw is actually pretty good in the role.
For a real James Bond, there used to be an used car dealer of that name in Creswell OR back in the 70's and 80's. His sign was visible on I-5.
Rick
Quote from: inkyatari on October 02, 2018, 08:38:40 AM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on October 02, 2018, 12:31:38 AM
I like Timothy Dalton's Bond. But I think the darkness and violence of his two films (especially License to Kill) were too ahead of their time.
I like Pierce Brosnan's Bond too. I don't know the story behind his departure, but ISTR he was publicly critical of the franchise's direction after Die Another Day. Rightfully so, since that was a dreadful movie -- John Cleese was a terrible successor to Desmond Llewelyn's Q, and the invisible car... well, the less said about that, the better. But that criticism didn't endear him to the producers.
We're at the point now where Bond, Star Wars, Star Trek, and Mission Impossible have interchangeable scripts. Chases and explosions!
The invisible car is actually the single thing I cut Die Another Day some slack on, because around that time I had been reading stories of how the UK government was actually pursuing development of one. As for John Cleese, I thought, at first, that it was an inspired choice, but then he went all Monty Python on the role, which I should have expected. I currently think that Ben Wishaw is actually pretty good in the role.
I don't know if he had alimony to pay or what, but John Cleese made some absolutely horrendous film choices in the late 1990s and early 2000s, between playing R, appearing in that godawful remake of The Out-Of-Towners, and appearing in one or two Charlie's Angels films. At least Desmond Llewelyn got a dignified sendoff in The World Is Not Enough.
^^^^^^^
I fully expected Cleese to respond ".....I told you once!"* when Bond would ask him a question! Not the best choice for the "gadgetmaster" role. Ironically, Desmond Llewelyn died in an automobile accident (at age 85) just before the release of The World Is Not Enough.
*from the Python "Argument Clinic" sketch, of course! :awesomeface:
I liked every Bond movie except Skyfall, which had a horrible plot.
Quote from: stormwatch7721 on October 04, 2018, 03:28:11 PM
I liked every Bond movie except Skyfall, which had a horrible plot.
It had a deceptively
simple plot: former MI6 hacker exceeded his brief and was disavowed by M and subsequently tortured by Chinese intelligence -- and now he's out for revenge. The film was quite different from anything before it -- no real "leading lady" (unless you count Judi Dench's M as occupying that role here), and, like OHMSS and Casino Royale, a less-than-optimal outcome (spoiler: M dies despite all of Bond's efforts to prevent that!). But the acting performances, overall, were among the best of the series, from Craig himself, Dench as always, and Javier Bardem as the obsessed villain.
Skyfall, and even
Spectre afterwards, seemed to be transitional films -- Craig's Bond was established in his first to films (
Casino and
Quantum); the two latter films were to tie up "loose ends" from not only the first two Craig entries but some nagging carryovers from the pre-reboot series of 20 films. But
Skyfall, at least to me, flowed a little better than
Spectre, which seemed to have more forced plot points (including the Oberhauser to Blofeld transformation). But the one good thing that the two films had in common (probably due to Sam Mendes' direction) was attention to dialogue (the exchange between Bond and the doomed Mr. White in
Spectre was unexpectedly poignant and revealing); also exhibited with Silva's (Bardem) monologue in
Skyfall as he approaches Bond for the first time in the huge hall. As a director, Mendes has always put the spotlight on character motivation; something decidedly lacking in the pre-reboot series. Whether that's jarring to longtime Bond aficionados is moot; that's how Mendes makes films. Let's see if Cary Fukunaga (the new "Bond 25" director) will continue in that vein or choose another approach.
Quote from: sparker on October 04, 2018, 04:48:17 PM
Quote from: stormwatch7721 on October 04, 2018, 03:28:11 PM
I liked every Bond movie except Skyfall, which had a horrible plot.
It had a deceptively simple plot: former MI6 hacker exceeded his brief and was disavowed by M and subsequently tortured by Chinese intelligence -- and now he's out for revenge. The film was quite different from anything before it -- no real "leading lady" (unless you count Judi Dench's M as occupying that role here), and, like OHMSS and Casino Royale, a less-than-optimal outcome (spoiler: M dies despite all of Bond's efforts to prevent that!). But the acting performances, overall, were among the best of the series, from Craig himself, Dench as always, and Javier Bardem as the obsessed villain. Skyfall, and even Spectre afterwards, seemed to be transitional films -- Craig's Bond was established in his first to films (Casino and Quantum); the two latter films were to tie up "loose ends" from not only the first two Craig entries but some nagging carryovers from the pre-reboot series of 20 films. But Skyfall, at least to me, flowed a little better than Spectre, which seemed to have more forced plot points (including the Oberhauser to Blofeld transformation). But the one good thing that the two films had in common (probably due to Sam Mendes' direction) was attention to dialogue (the exchange between Bond and the doomed Mr. White in Spectre was unexpectedly poignant and revealing); also exhibited with Silva's (Bardem) monologue in Skyfall as he approaches Bond for the first time in the huge hall. As a director, Mendes has always put the spotlight on character motivation; something decidedly lacking in the pre-reboot series. Whether that's jarring to longtime Bond aficionados is moot; that's how Mendes makes films. Let's see if Cary Fukunaga (the new "Bond 25" director) will continue in that vein or choose another approach.
I'm surprised the line in Skyfall alluding to Bond possibly being bisexual wasn't more controversial than it was, but maybe I was looking in the wrong places.
I really enjoyed Skyfall when I first saw it, but then again, not really as a James Bond film but rather an action film. And I haven't put any effort to see it since on the TV.
OK, it did help that I have much more of a connection to the London skyline shots, and Dame Judi than an American would. But then, the Underground errors wound me up - the other edge of that British sword (though this one only cuts if you are a geek and paying too much attention to minor details that have zero relevance to the actual film)!
Oh, and I saw it in a lovely 1920s cinema not very far from the studio, bringing in some additional ambience, and some Bond links due to that age and proximity.
The best part of Skyfall is the theme song. Great callback to the Shirley Bassey themes.
Quote from: abefroman329 on October 04, 2018, 05:14:42 PM
I'm surprised the line in Skyfall alluding to Bond possibly being bisexual wasn't more controversial than it was, but maybe I was looking in the wrong places.
As long as we're talking about Bond themes, am I the only one miffed that the lyrics to Goldeneye have nothing to do with the plot?
Methinks that Bono and The Edge (who wrote it,) were never given access to the plot, so they winged it.
Also, a podcast I used to listen to, James Bond Radio, one had a great episode or two about rejected Bond themes.
Here's an interesting one...
I rather enjoy this theme as well...
David Arnold and the late Chris Cornell's song "You Know My Name" from Casino Royale is vastly underrated, probably since it echoes a harder rock edge than most other Bond entries. It set the tone for the following films; the basic chord progression (Bm/G/E) was copied in Jack White's "Another Way to Die" from Quantum of Solace -- and Adele even used it as the basis for the title song Skyfall. Regardless, no voice but Cornell's could make the song work -- although Arnold utilized an orchestrated instrumental version several times within the film's score to good effect.
Quote from: inkyatari on October 04, 2018, 09:05:46 PM
As long as we're talking about Bond themes, am I the only one miffed that the lyrics to Goldeneye have nothing to do with the plot?
I could have course be wrong but it seems to me that the lyrics of that song are more about Alec Trevelyan being pissed at Bond for abandoning him and his plotting to get revenge on him and England. Which seems kind of relevant to the plot as presented in the movie.
Quote from: tdindy88 on October 04, 2018, 09:48:43 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on October 04, 2018, 09:05:46 PM
As long as we're talking about Bond themes, am I the only one miffed that the lyrics to Goldeneye have nothing to do with the plot?
I could have course be wrong but it seems to me that the lyrics of that song are more about Alec Trevelyan being pissed at Bond for abandoning him and his plotting to get revenge on him and England. Which seems kind of relevant to the plot as presented in the movie.
Trevelyan wasn't pissed at Bond for abandoning him; he faked his own death in front of Bond so his death could be reported back to MI6. He was pissed at Bond for setting the explosive timers early so he and Omourov didn't have time to disarm them -- and they went off, disfiguring his face.
Quote from: inkyatari on October 04, 2018, 09:05:46 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on October 04, 2018, 05:14:42 PM
I'm surprised the line in Skyfall alluding to Bond possibly being bisexual wasn't more controversial than it was, but maybe I was looking in the wrong places.
As long as we're talking about Bond themes, am I the only one miffed that the lyrics to Goldeneye have nothing to do with the plot?
Methinks that Bono and The Edge (who wrote it,) were never given access to the plot, so they winged it.
Also, a podcast I used to listen to, James Bond Radio, one had a great episode or two about rejected Bond themes.
Here's an interesting one...
Have they discussed Good to Say Goodbye, which allegedly wasn't the rejected theme to Quantum of Solace?
Quote from: abefroman329 on October 05, 2018, 02:31:36 AM
Quote from: inkyatari on October 04, 2018, 09:05:46 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on October 04, 2018, 05:14:42 PM
I'm surprised the line in Skyfall alluding to Bond possibly being bisexual wasn't more controversial than it was, but maybe I was looking in the wrong places.
As long as we're talking about Bond themes, am I the only one miffed that the lyrics to Goldeneye have nothing to do with the plot?
Methinks that Bono and The Edge (who wrote it,) were never given access to the plot, so they winged it.
Also, a podcast I used to listen to, James Bond Radio, one had a great episode or two about rejected Bond themes.
Here's an interesting one...
Have they discussed Good to Say Goodbye, which allegedly wasn't the rejected theme to Quantum of Solace?
I'd have to listen to that episode again.
I misremebered the name of the song - it's No Good About Goodbye. Anyway, listen for yourself:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nEAWlUKRHHk
Quote from: abefroman329 on October 05, 2018, 09:10:54 AM
I misremebered the name of the song - it's No Good About Goodbye. Anyway, listen for yourself:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nEAWlUKRHHk
That sounds like an archetypal Bond theme song
a la the classic John Barry efforts. But then, so did the song "Surrender" from
Tomorrow Never Dies which was supposed to have been the main title theme; that one was sung by k.d. lang. But Broccoli & Co., in both cases, discarded the more traditional Bond-song approach in order to provide a song by a more popular artist of the day (for
Tomorrow, it was Sheryl Crow, and for
Quantum, it was a duet from Jack White, who wrote that song, entitled "Another Way To Die", and Alicia Keys). Perhaps with the seemingly perpetual dire financial straits of UA/MGM, they were simply trying to boost sales of the soundtrack albums by including those artists -- but the result was a questionable song selection up front instead of one that fit well with the particular film. At least with
Tomorrow, they had the good sense to slide the better song in over the end titles. Arnold worked instrumental versions of the k.d. lang song into his score as well -- while the Crow title song had no further appearance past the titles. With Quantum, the Arnold/Black/Bassey song simply disappeared; BTW, Don Black was one of John Barry's favored lyricists, providing lyrics for
Thunderball, Diamonds Are Forever, and
The Man With the Golden Gun (although the latter was silly and forgettable) -- and the pair won an Oscar for
Born Free. Black also supplied the lyrics for Arnold's title song for
The World Is Not Enough, performed by the group "Garbage". It's too bad Barbara Broccoli & company didn't give the Bassey song cited above at least the "end title" treatment -- it's a pretty good one!
It seems insane that Sheryl Crow performed a Bond theme song. Yes, more insane than Duran Duran or a-ha or Garbage. Don't ask me why, I'm weird like that.
Today is The Official James Bond Day (http://www.007.com/global-james-bond-day-2/) :-/
OK, it's 56 years to the day since Dr No. was released so there's legit reason to have it today, but it seems odd to do some marketing for a film series that not only doesn't really need awareness to be raised, but won't start shooting the next instalment until nearly 6 months' time.
Still, if you were in London and happened upon the Aston Martins then that would have been nice.
And Dr. No doesn't even resemble what anyone thinks of as a James Bond film.
Quote from: abefroman329 on October 05, 2018, 02:27:45 PM
And Dr. No doesn't even resemble what anyone thinks of as a James Bond film.
The Bond "idiom" arguably commenced with
Goldfinger -- from the gadgets to the self-deprecating humor, and on to the music. One could argue that the chord progressions written by Barry for the title song of that film set the standard for the massive amounts of spy films that followed (Jerry Goldsmith's theme for
Our Man Flint seemed like a derivative "spoof" of the Barry work - especially the Bb-E "round the world" sequence seen accompanying the lyrics
".......the man with the Midas touch"). Seemed like every film composer of that era from Goldsmith through Lalo Schifrin emulated that idiom -- some in non-spy films like the Schifrin-scored 1965 Steve McQueen-starrer
The Cincinnati Kid as well as, ironically, his score for
The Liquidator (1966), the film that made John Gardner swear off films of his novels. Both themes and scores seemed to use the "Bond" thematic idiom, which didn't dissipate until the "spy craze" petered out by the end of the decade.
An 007-month "bump" for this thread, prompted by the announcement this week of the beginning of filming "Bond 25" (still no definitive title)......but with the addition of Rami Malek (Mr. Robot) as the new villain, variously described as a "techno-whiz" with sinister motives. First time a Best Actor Oscar winner has played a villain (although 3 of them have been played by actors who previously won Best Supporting Actor: Walken, Bardem, and Waltz). Also -- Jeffrey Wright is back as Felix Leiter after a 2-film hiatus, along with most of the supporting cast of the last couple of films. But still no finished script (reminiscent of Quantum of Solace, which was reportedly written "on the fly" by cast & crew during a writers' strike). And, of course, Daniel Craig's back; likely his last. This may be a particularly bumpy ride -- and the scheduled release is early spring 2020. Stay tuned!
Heh. I like how your post makes it look like we'd know Malek from Mr. Robot rather than the movie he got the Oscar for: Bohemian Rhapsody. :D
^^^^^^^^^
I'd take it as a safe bet that more folks have seen him on Mr. Robot than his portrayal of Freddie Mercury. Bohemian Rhapsody held its own at the box office, but wasn't a "blockbuster" by any means. Just aiming to address what is likely a wider audience.
Also the US wasn't the prime market the film was aimed at - the UK was (similar to Bond films). However it still grossed $216.4 million in North America, and it's opening weekend there made more money than the first 12 days in the UK. It topped the box office the first weekend, and was still third on the third weekend after The Grinch and Fantastic Beasts. It topped the US sales charts when released for home viewing.
And it's not like Mr Robot was a rip-roaring success. 1.75 million watched the pilot (with numbers sinking after that) live - hardly that popular. More watched the film opening weekend. I'd suggest the number of people who've seen it is about the same for both.
I was hoping to see if Bautista came back as a henchman. IMHO, he was easily a top tier henchman behind Oddjob and Jaws.
Quote from: inkyatari on April 29, 2019, 09:02:23 AM
I was hoping to see if Bautista came back as a henchman. IMHO, he was easily a top tier henchman behind Oddjob and Jaws.
According to the latest cast listings, Dave Bautista is
not in the cast, at least for the present. But apparently there's some filming in Scotland scheduled -- maybe we'll see what's supposedly left of the
Skyfall house again!
A suggestion to anyone interested in Bond lore (books & film, although tending to favor the latter) and/or the progress of the latest film, still untitled but referred to as "Bond 25", should head over to:
mi6-hq.com
Pretty comprehensive Bond site -- better than secondhand prattling about minutiae by myself or others.
Apparently there's a temporary stop on filming because Daniel Craig got injured.
Quote from: inkyatari on May 16, 2019, 09:03:36 AM
Apparently there's a temporary stop on filming because Daniel Craig got injured.
Seeing as how the film's opening date has been pushed back to April 2020 (apparently that's a "hard" date -- meaning theaters are now booked), it's unlikely that the producers wouldn't attempt to make up time down the line to ensure that the filming and postproduction schedule remains intact. They already had one bad experience in this regard 11 years ago with
Quantum of Solace; they're probably pulling out stops to avoid that situation again.
Bumping this from a couple month hiatus..
In case you haven't heard, Bond 25 is titled No Time to Die
Quote from: inkyatari on September 10, 2019, 02:23:52 PM
Bumping this from a couple month hiatus..
In case you haven't heard, Bond 25 is titled No Time to Die
And......they're bringing back Christoph Waltz as Blofeld. Rumor mill has it that there are scenes with him incarcerated that resemble that of Hannibal Lecter in
Silence of the Lambs. Also, now that Bond is (semi-?)retired, the 007 designation has been passed on to a female operative. This will be one interesting film once they get it completed.