I-49 in Arkansas

[sparker]

Ran Across the below article a couple of days ago on a political comment website that I frequent.

Also had to explain to a commenter on how a state could apply tolls to a "Federal" highway...   


https://www.equipmentworld.com/ark-dot-studies-possible-first-toll-road-for-state/

Ark. DOT studies possible first toll road for state
Don McLoud | December 26, 2017

A future Interstate 49 and whether it will become Arkansas' first toll road are being considered, with public meetings likely coming in early 2018, reports KFSM news station.

The interstate section being considered would stretch from Barling to Alma over the Arkansas River. The Arkansas Department of Transportation has commissioned a study on charging tolls on the future highway section.

The study is scheduled to be completed next fall, and public meetings are expected at the first of 2018 to get public input on the project, the station reports.

Interstate 49 would eventually stretch from New Orleans to Canada. Portions of the highway have been constructed elsewhere and are being constructed in Arkansas.

The Interstate 49 International Coalition says the highway is about 80 percent complete, with the Arkansas portion between Texarkana and Fort Smith among the remaining pieces to be built. The state is still trying to come up with the $2.5 billion needed for the project.

So -- are tolls being contemplated for just the planned I-49 Arkansas River bridge or for the entire segment between Ft. Smith and Texarkana?  The article is so vague that this can't be determined given the info provided. 

[kphoger]

↑  I didn't think the article was vague.  ↑

A future Interstate 49 and whether it will become Arkansas' first toll road are being considered ... The interstate section being considered would stretch from Barling to Alma over the Arkansas River.

[sparker]

↑  I didn't think the article was vague.  ↑

A future Interstate 49 and whether it will become Arkansas' first toll road are being considered ... The interstate section being considered would stretch from Barling to Alma over the Arkansas River.

My 68-year-old eyes must be getting weak -- missed the reference completely (actually, I skimmed the article directly without going to the synopsis provided by greenlanterncorps).  Lunch hour, you know -- trying to do too much in what's really 45 minutes.  Oh well...........In any case, I'm glad the reference is to the bridge alone; I don't think trying to toll the entire length of I-49 south of I-40 would be feasible -- it would be so easy to shunpike via US 271/59 through OK and miss the portion of the route that's expected to directly overlay US 71 (and part of US 270 as well); the remainder through Mena and De Queen could be done on either the old road or nearby state highways.  Probably end up being a fiscal nightmare.  Tolls on the bridge, OTOH, are certainly feasible if kept to a reasonable level (not the $5 per crossing we're used to here in NorCal -- and going up soon, if Caltrans has its way!).  For Arkansas, a buck and a half seems about right.     

[Tomahawkin]

Wow! I suggested this in College on a term paper circa 2007 and maybe 49 as a toll road between Ft Smith and Texarkana will come to fruition. Most people who will travel that area from out of state should pay 2 dollars plus, depending on # of axles. Locals should pay .50 cents or exempt depending on mileage and axles. Its moot though. But I'm glad the slow #### dot are finally considering it. The money generated could fund expansion projects in NWA and accelerate I-69

[Bobby5280]

I can see I-49 between the South side of Fort Smith and Ashdown being a viable turnpike. But putting up tolls on what will be an unremarkable looking, standard freeway bridge over the Arkansas River just from Alma to Barling? I have doubts such a plan is workable.

I-540 and its free crossing of the Arkansas River is just 5 miles West of the I-49/I-40 interchange in Alma. AR-59 has a free crossing of the Arkansas River very near where the I-49 of the Arkansas River would be built. Locals will have 3 free options to cross the river and avoid using an I-49 toll bridge. Shunpiking would even be an issue with out of town drivers. Right now you can drive up the freeway stub in Barling, use AR-59 to cross the river, connect to I-540 in Van Buren and be on I-40 and I-49 pretty quickly.

Toll rates on an I-49 bridge over the Arkansas River would have to be pretty cheap to discourage shunkpiking. Not just cheap enough to make the toll less expensive than the extra fuel used to bypass the bridge, but cheap enough to make the pain in the ass of stopping at a toll gate not so bad. Having to stop at a toll gate can be enough incentive to drive miles around it (especially if it's a dinky toll gate with few lanes, prone to traffic back-ups). So ARDOT has to figure out just how cheap the toll can be for the bridge to pay for itself. If the figure is high enough to induce shunpiking then they're going to be stuck paying for this bridge with fuel tax revenue or other measures.

If they can reach the right balance of a workable cheap toll price another question remains: what RFID toll tag system will the bridge use? Are we going to have yet another toll road authority and unique toll tag? Last time I checked we're still quite a long way from achieving completely interoperability between just this region's toll tags, much less reaching the goal of nationwide interoperability.

The money generated could fund expansion projects in NWA and accelerate I-69.

That might be over-estimating the ability of this toll bridge to attract traffic rather than entice it to drive a few miles farther to free crossings. Shunpiking is a big enough threat that ARDOT will be lucky if they can set toll prices just high enough to merely pay for the bridge. In the end I think they're going to be stuck making it a free crossing.

[US71]

Wow! I suggested this in College on a term paper circa 2007 and maybe 49 as a toll road between Ft Smith and Texarkana will come to fruition. Most people who will travel that area from out of state should pay 2 dollars plus, depending on # of axles. Locals should pay .50 cents or exempt depending on mileage and axles. Its moot though. But I'm glad the slow #### dot are finally considering it. The money generated could fund expansion projects in NWA and accelerate I-69

ARDOT has a reputation of funding pet projects rather than what is needed, so I don't know if tolls would have much effect in NWA.

[inkyatari]

That might be over-estimating the ability of this toll bridge to attract traffic rather than entice it to drive a few miles farther to free crossings. Shunpiking is a big enough threat that ARDOT will be lucky if they can set toll prices just high enough to merely pay for the bridge. In the end I think they're going to be stuck making it a free crossing.

IMHO, the only way to discourage shunpiking is to make the whole Ft. Smith / Texarkana portion a tollway.

[bjrush]

Wow! I suggested this in College on a term paper circa 2007 and maybe 49 as a toll road between Ft Smith and Texarkana will come to fruition. Most people who will travel that area from out of state should pay 2 dollars plus, depending on # of axles. Locals should pay .50 cents or exempt depending on mileage and axles. Its moot though. But I'm glad the slow #### dot are finally considering it. The money generated could fund expansion projects in NWA and accelerate I-69

I don't want "money generated" to fund anything. Once the bridge is paid off, make it free

[Bobby5280]

IMHO, the only way to discourage shunpiking is to make the whole Ft. Smith / Texarkana portion a tollway.

Yeah, in this case the turnpike would have to start at the I-40/I-49 interchange in Alma and remain as a toll road all the way to Texarkana. That would simplify the situation a great deal. I don't think the toll bridge idea alone is very do-able. One downside of making all of I-49 a toll road South of I-40 is it might stifle any kind of commercial and residential development in the Barling area that might otherwise sprout next to an Interstate with toll-free access. I guess it all depends on what regional planners in Fort Smith and Barling would like to have happen in that area. The exits on that fragment of Interstate quality highway are currently free. Adding tolls to them might piss off some locals. It would cost at least some money to modify those exits.

There are numerous cities (like here in Lawton) where the Interstate passing through has free exits while in the city but turns into a toll road outside of town. I-44 does the same thing in Tulsa. Buffalo is like that with I-90. I would suggest AR DOT do the same thing with I-49 on the East side of Fort Smith if any of it is to become a toll road at all. There is even a question if I-49 between Fort Smith and Texarkana can generate enough traffic and toll revenue to pay for itself rather than use fuel tax revenue.

I don't want "money generated" to fund anything. Once the bridge is paid off, make it free.

That presumes there is enough revenue coming in from fuel taxes to cover maintenance and any necessary improvements on the bridge once it becomes "free." Here in Oklahoma so many people want the toll gates to be removed from our turnpikes "since they're paid for." But since the state hasn't changed its fuel taxes since 1993 it sure doesn't have the tax revenue to take ownership (and the costs that come with it) of over 600+ miles of toll roads. At least not without bumping up those fuel taxes a good bit.

[Tomahawkin]

This is cool, I see a lot more people are on board with making this a toll road between Ft Smith and Texarkana? 10 years ago when I lived in Fayetteville, a lot of athletes and students from Dallas, Houston, and NOLA complained about no direct way there as well as the spring breakers who would go to South Padre or Panama city. Its why I looked into it as well as what it would do to the corporations in NWA ( Wal Mart, Tyson, etc). I thought it would be a great research paper. Thanks for everyone who has commented. With that in mind. It would also add money to NWA for school and game day traffic improvements. When I lived out there I was told by many former Californians that area is a destination for them because of the low cost of living, same with a lot of Texans who moved to NWA since 2000. I need opinions on the growth?

[Bobby5280]

Given the current situation with philosophies on taxes in both the federal government and Arkansas state government, I think hell will freeze over before I-49 gets built between Fort Smith and Texarkana. Not under the current mindset and extremely slow trickle of fuel tax dollars like little farts in the wind from the federal government. If all or significant parts of the Fort Smith to Texarkana segment of I-49 was going to be completed by 2030 or even 2040 that part of I-49 would have to be built as a toll road, likely in some sort of public-private partnership. I see no other way of getting it done quickly. The only way I-49 gets completed as a "free" road and completed within the next 50 years is by sweeping changes in politics over how we regard highway infrastructure.

[Road Hog]

Given the current situation with philosophies on taxes in both the federal government and Arkansas state government, I think hell will freeze over before I-49 gets built between Fort Smith and Texarkana. Not under the current mindset and extremely slow trickle of fuel tax dollars little farts in the wind from the federal government. If all or significant parts of the Fort Smith to Texarkana segment of I-49 was going to be completed by 2030 or even 2040 that part of I-49 would have to be built as a toll road, likely in some sort of public-private partnership. I see no other way of getting it done quickly. The only way I-49 gets completed as a "free" road and completed within the next 50 years is by sweeping changes in politics over how we regard highway infrastructure.

I hate to get political here, but Arkansas has a more moderate tradition than other states and I trust they will do the right thing eventually. (Granted, you'll have to hope someone from Mena runs for governor.)

[bjrush]

I think the migration from Texas to NWA is overstated. So I looked at the most recently available Metro to Metro migration data from the US Census Bureau.

26.9% - rural, nonmetro areas in the US (admittedly not very helpful, but I would imagine the primary state here is Arkansas)
7%- Little Rock metro
7%- Asia
4.8%- DFW
4.4%- Fort Smith metro
3%- Tulsa
2.3%- Central America
2.14%- Kansas City
2.13%- Joplin
2%- Los Angeles

[US71]

Given the current situation with philosophies on taxes in both the federal government and Arkansas state government, I think hell will freeze over before I-49 gets built between Fort Smith and Texarkana. Not under the current mindset and extremely slow trickle of fuel tax dollars little farts in the wind from the federal government. If all or significant parts of the Fort Smith to Texarkana segment of I-49 was going to be completed by 2030 or even 2040 that part of I-49 would have to be built as a toll road, likely in some sort of public-private partnership. I see no other way of getting it done quickly. The only way I-49 gets completed as a "free" road and completed within the next 50 years is by sweeping changes in politics over how we regard highway infrastructure.

I hate to get political here, but Arkansas has a more moderate tradition than other states and I trust they will do the right thing eventually. (Granted, you'll have to hope someone from Mena runs for governor.)

HEY BUGO!!   

[bugo]

Proposed exit numbering From Polk Conty Fort Chaffee area: http://www.arkansashighways.com/forums/I-49-Proposed-Mileage.pdf

There's not going to be an exit at AR 8 near the infamous Mena airport?

[TheArkansasRoadgeek]

That presumes there is enough revenue coming in from fuel taxes to cover maintenance and any necessary improvements on the bridge once it becomes "free." Here in Oklahoma so many people want the toll gates to be removed from our turnpikes "since they're paid for." But since the state hasn't changed its fuel taxes since 1993 it sure doesn't have the tax revenue to take ownership (and the costs that come with it) of over 600+ miles of toll roads. At least not without bumping up those fuel taxes a good bit.

It seems Arkansas is always in favor of paying higher gas taxes and then complains about them!

[US71]

That presumes there is enough revenue coming in from fuel taxes to cover maintenance and any necessary improvements on the bridge once it becomes "free." Here in Oklahoma so many people want the toll gates to be removed from our turnpikes "since they're paid for." But since the state hasn't changed its fuel taxes since 1993 it sure doesn't have the tax revenue to take ownership (and the costs that come with it) of over 600+ miles of toll roads. At least not without bumping up those fuel taxes a good bit.

It seems Arkansas is always in favor of paying higher gas taxes and then complains about them!

Usually it's expecting someone else to pay for the roads (truckers, tourists, etc) or to be magically fixed my leprechauns.

As far as exits are concerned, I think ARDOT sent out a diagram a while back showing where all the proposed exits were.

[bugo]

A better way to shunpike an I-49 toll road would be to exit onto US 71 north between Greenwood and Fort Smith and take it to I-540. Take I-540 to I-40 east back to I-49 north. All 4 lanes divided and only a few traffic lights.

As far as charging locals less than out of towners...no. Just no. That is unfair. If you're going to have a toll road make everybody pay the same fare.

[Grzrd]

Proposed exit numbering From Polk Conty Fort Chaffee area: http://www.arkansashighways.com/forums/I-49-Proposed-Mileage.pdf

There's not going to be an exit at AR 8 near the infamous Mena airport?

Oops, I posted the wrong link in the above quote. Here is the correct link:

http://www.arkansashighways.com/forums/I-49_Exits_2.pdf

[bugo]

One of the maps shows an exit at AR 8 and another doesn't. I assume the one without the exit is incorrect because I have read several articles that mentioned an exit near the airport. It would be silly not to have an exit there because it is a fairly major highway and is right next to the "Cocaine Airport".

[Wayward Memphian]

I think the migration from Texas to NWA is overstated. So I looked at the most recently available Metro to Metro migration data from the US Census Bureau.

26.9% - rural, nonmetro areas in the US (admittedly not very helpful, but I would imagine the primary state here is Arkansas)
7%- Little Rock metro
7%- Asia
4.8%- DFW
4.4%- Fort Smith metro
3%- Tulsa
2.3%- Central America
2.14%- Kansas City
2.13%- Joplin
2%- Los Angeles

All one has to do is look at the incoming freshmen classes at the U of A to see the Metroplex impact on NWA. Last year the Uof A admitted a record amount of Arkansas kids , yet were outnumbered by Metroplex kids. Couple that with amount of alumni that head to the Metroplex to work/live and there's some numbers that kinda get lost in the shuffle. Hit I-49 from Alma to Fayetteville on a Sun night after a break and get back with me on the amount of Texas tags that you saw. These folks already have toll tags, make two turnpikes between Ft. Skith and Ashdown and one between Mena and Texarkana and hit them twice and join in with OK and North Tx. Keep the immedate Mena area free for locals communting. Everyone I know would gladly pay. They hate the McAlister to Durant segment in Okie. Okie is stupid for not having done it yet.

Once built, I think folks would be shocked how well recwives it would be as the silent majority would wear it out. Same would go for a Turnpike across North Arkansas replacing US412 and tYing into US 67/I-57 and then I-555. It would take pressure off I-40 between LIT and MEM.

I'm at a loss as to why even Southwest Air hasn't got a clue and added DAL from XNA to enter the market.

[rte66man]

I think the migration from Texas to NWA is overstated. So I looked at the most recently available Metro to Metro migration data from the US Census Bureau.

26.9% - rural, nonmetro areas in the US (admittedly not very helpful, but I would imagine the primary state here is Arkansas)
7%- Little Rock metro
7%- Asia
4.8%- DFW
4.4%- Fort Smith metro
3%- Tulsa
2.3%- Central America
2.14%- Kansas City
2.13%- Joplin
2%- Los Angeles

All one has to do is look at the incoming freshmen classes at the U of A to see the Metroplex impact on NWA. Last year the Uof A admitted a record amount of Arkansas kids , yet were outnumbered by Metroplex kids. Couple that with amount of alumni that head to the Metroplex to work/live and there's some numbers that kinda get lost in the shuffle. Hit I-49 from Alma to Fayetteville on a Sun night after a break and get back with me on the amount of Texas tags that you saw. These folks already have toll tags, make two turnpikes between Ft. Skith and Ashdown and one between Mena and Texarkana and hit them twice and join in with OK and North Tx. Keep the immedate Mena area free for locals communting. Everyone I know would gladly pay. They hate the McAlister to Durant segment in Okie. Okie is stupid for not having done it yet.

It's because college kids aren't migrating (permanently moving) to NWA. If they stay there after graduation, then they should be counted.

I believe the Rural migrators are mainly from eastern OK where there is a lack of good job opportunities.

There isn't enough room on this page to refute your comment that "OK is stupid for not doing this".  BTW, Okie is considered an insult in some areas.  They don't like the word as it usually is tied back to poor whites who moved to California in the Dust Bowl days and they don't want to be reminded of it.  Think "The Grapes of Wrath". 

[Wayward Memphian]

I think the migration from Texas to NWA is overstated. So I looked at the most recently available Metro to Metro migration data from the US Census Bureau.

26.9% - rural, nonmetro areas in the US (admittedly not very helpful, but I would imagine the primary state here is Arkansas)
7%- Little Rock metro
7%- Asia
4.8%- DFW
4.4%- Fort Smith metro
3%- Tulsa
2.3%- Central America
2.14%- Kansas City
2.13%- Joplin
2%- Los Angeles

All one has to do is look at the incoming freshmen classes at the U of A to see the Metroplex impact on NWA. Last year the Uof A admitted a record amount of Arkansas kids , yet were outnumbered by Metroplex kids. Couple that with amount of alumni that head to the Metroplex to work/live and there's some numbers that kinda get lost in the shuffle. Hit I-49 from Alma to Fayetteville on a Sun night after a break and get back with me on the amount of Texas tags that you saw. These folks already have toll tags, make two turnpikes between Ft. Skith and Ashdown and one between Mena and Texarkana and hit them twice and join in with OK and North Tx. Keep the immedate Mena area free for locals communting. Everyone I know would gladly pay. They hate the McAlister to Durant segment in Okie. Okie is stupid for not having done it yet.

It's because college kids aren't migrating (permanently moving) to NWA. If they stay there after graduation, then they should be counted.

I believe the Rural migrators are mainly from eastern OK where there is a lack of good job opportunities.

There isn't enough room on this page to refute your comment that "OK is stupid for not doing this".  BTW, Okie is considered an insult in some areas.  They don't like the word as it usually is tied back to poor whites who moved to California in the Dust Bowl days and they don't want to be reminded of it.  Think "The Grapes of Wrath".

Spare this Arkie overy over the sensibilities of Okies.

I think 49 would be totally pointless if 'Okie' finally turnpiked US 67 from McAlister to Durant.


Fixed quoting-us71

[Revive 755]

^ Disagree, as I-49, when combined with I-369 and/or I-69, will provide a way to Houston without going through the Dallas area.

[rte66man]

Spare this Arkie overy over the sensibilities of Okies.

I think 49 would be totally pointless if 'Okie' finally turnpiked US 67 from McAlister to Durant.

Overy?

Also, I wasn't aware 67 ran anywhere near Oklahoma