PA Turnpike News

[jeffandnicole]

All the PTC needs to do is call up Maryland and ask them how the ICC works.

ICC uses a gantry between each set of exits (one in each direction). Same setup on 495/95 Express lanes in VA. Fortunately, the EZpass invoice doesn't line item each stretch of road, but provides a summary for each trip.

I've read that the PTC has been considering this model for the mainline, rather than simply replacing the entry/exit booths.  (No mention how it would be invoiced).
When I read that, I wondered if they would also re-toll the stretch between Cranberry & Ohio, since it would still be free-flowing, and charging travelers a little more fairly.
Wait and see, I suppose....

Though on the other hand, the PTC is going ahead with a one-way all-electronic toll coming off the turnpike bridge over the Delaware River when the interchange at Bristol is complete enough to sign the far eastern end of the Pennsylvania Turnpike's East-West Mainline as I-95. 

Since there will no longer be cash collected there, why not charge toll in both directions?

It would certainly be way fairer.

I imagine the thinking is that since every other toll authority charges leaving NJ only, that the PA Turnpike would do the same.  If the toll was charged in both directions, I would doubt people would go out of their way to avoid a $2.50 charge if they were already on the Turnpike, especially if they simply want to continue on the NJ Turnpike.  And going WB, I doubt many people would use the NJ Turnpike just to save $2.50 in PA.  And this is especially true as the NJ Turnpike will still charge a premium for using Interchange 6.

Maybe after they went thru the numbers, the expenses of running two-way tolling here didn't justify the revenues.  While there won't be toll takers any more, there will still be equipment expenses and maintenance.  But, I bet the big expenses would be hiring people to look up non-EZ Pass tagholder info and mailing that out.  They already need to do it for WB traffic anyway, but they would probably need to double the number of people - and mailings - if there was two way tolling.  Sure, some of those people would do roundtrips within a months' timespan, but that's not everyone.

I can understanding the justification for keeping it one-way tolling.

[PHLBOS]

I can understanding the justification for keeping it one-way tolling.

Had the PTC been smart when it first built that stretch in the 50s; the mainline toll plaza would've (IMHO, should've) been located just west of the Delaware Valley (US 13) interchange and smaller cash booths placed on the ramps for traffic entering to/exiting from bridge; it could've converted to a one-way toll system when the rest of the Delaware River crossings did in the early-to-mid 1990s.

Given the close proximity that Exit 358 (old Exit 29) is from the current mainline plaza; one has to take a ticket (for sake of argument, forget the adjacent E-ZPass booths, the former has been there longer than the latter), turn off at the immediate exit and drive for less than one mile to the toll booth to pay their toll.  For one returning to NJ, one does the reverse.

If the interchange was located several miles from the bridge, that's one thing; but the current setup is just absolutely asinine.

Thankfully, this new westbound AET set-up, will finally correct the current clusterf*ck of a set-up.

[vdeane]

Maybe after they went thru the numbers, the expenses of running two-way tolling here didn't justify the revenues.  While there won't be toll takers any more, there will still be equipment expenses and maintenance.  But, I bet the big expenses would be hiring people to look up non-EZ Pass tagholder info and mailing that out.  They already need to do it for WB traffic anyway, but they would probably need to double the number of people - and mailings - if there was two way tolling.  Sure, some of those people would do roundtrips within a months' timespan, but that's not everyone.

I can understanding the justification for keeping it one-way tolling.

They're gonna need to hire those people anyways when the entire system goes AET.

[cpzilliacus]

All the PTC needs to do is call up Maryland and ask them how the ICC works.

ICC uses a gantry between each set of exits (one in each direction). Same setup on 495/95 Express lanes in VA. Fortunately, the EZpass invoice doesn't line item each stretch of road, but provides a summary for each trip.

I've read that the PTC has been considering this model for the mainline, rather than simply replacing the entry/exit booths.  (No mention how it would be invoiced).
When I read that, I wondered if they would also re-toll the stretch between Cranberry & Ohio, since it would still be free-flowing, and charging travelers a little more fairly.
Wait and see, I suppose....

Though on the other hand, the PTC is going ahead with a one-way all-electronic toll coming off the turnpike bridge over the Delaware River when the interchange at Bristol is complete enough to sign the far eastern end of the Pennsylvania Turnpike's East-West Mainline as I-95. 

Since there will no longer be cash collected there, why not charge toll in both directions?

It would certainly be way fairer.

I imagine the thinking is that since every other toll authority charges leaving NJ only, that the PA Turnpike would do the same.  If the toll was charged in both directions, I would doubt people would go out of their way to avoid a $2.50 charge if they were already on the Turnpike, especially if they simply want to continue on the NJ Turnpike.  And going WB, I doubt many people would use the NJ Turnpike just to save $2.50 in PA.  And this is especially true as the NJ Turnpike will still charge a premium for using Interchange 6.

Maybe after they went thru the numbers, the expenses of running two-way tolling here didn't justify the revenues.  While there won't be toll takers any more, there will still be equipment expenses and maintenance.  But, I bet the big expenses would be hiring people to look up non-EZ Pass tagholder info and mailing that out.  They already need to do it for WB traffic anyway, but they would probably need to double the number of people - and mailings - if there was two way tolling.  Sure, some of those people would do roundtrips within a months' timespan, but that's not everyone.

I can understanding the justification for keeping it one-way tolling.

Certainly the system of "pay to leave New Jersey" has been in place for many years at the state borders with New York and Pennsylvania. 

When the PANYNJ and the three toll agencies that operate crossings of the Delaware Bay and Delaware River go all-electronic (as they eventually will), then I wonder if the lot of them might want to return to two-way tolling. 

If memory serves, one-way tolls were about congestion relief at the toll barriers (since there was no electronic payment back then), and perhaps about saving some money (since fewer toll collectors were required).

With all electronic toll collection, it may make sense to return to two-way toll collection (it has gotten consideration in Maryland as part of the replacement of the Gov. Harry Nice Memorial Bridge (U.S. 301) over the Potomac River estuary, where tolls are currently collected southbound only).

[jeffandnicole]

Because everyone going into New Jersey is probably going to come out of New Jersey at some point, there's probably no true advantage to toll both ways. The majority of people aren't going to seek a cheaper, alternative route. Not only do you have to double up the equipment for both directions, but...and this is what I alluded to earlier...you would actually have to hire more people to research and collect money from toll violators as there will be toll violators in both directions; not just one direction.

[SignBridge]

I completely agree with PHLBOS about beginning the controlled toll system at the Delaware River Bridge. The first time I ever got that toll-ticket there and then exited at the first exit (Levittown) I couldn't believe how ridiculous that was. Between that and no interchange at I-95, I wasn't too impressed with the PTC!

Interestingly the New York Thruway Authority (which IMO was always smarter than the PTC) began their controlled-ticket system originally in Spring Valley (Rockland County) between exits 14A and 15, even though the Thruway began at the NYC line 24 miles further south. That's because they had so many exits at the south end of the Thruway. So they had barrier tolls the first few miles which made more sense.

In later years they even moved the start of the controlled system 20 miles further north to Harriman, exit-16, as they built more interchanges in the Spring Valley-Suffern area. Way to go!

[cpzilliacus]

Because everyone going into New Jersey is probably going to come out of New Jersey at some point, there's probably no true advantage to toll both ways. The majority of people aren't going to seek a cheaper, alternative route. Not only do you have to double up the equipment for both directions, but...and this is what I alluded to earlier...you would actually have to hire more people to research and collect money from toll violators as there will be toll violators in both directions; not just one direction.

Equipment, hardware and software are cheap.  The marginal cost of adding gantries to an already-established AET system should not be terribly high. 

Presumably the cost of dealing with transponder non-reads (for any reason) would be about the same in a two-way system - in part because if someone uses a crossing once without a working transponder, and then crosses under an AET toll point a second time, the information is already on file.

Again, I am indifferent about one-way vs. two-way tolling. 

[Alps]

Because everyone going into New Jersey is probably going to come out of New Jersey at some point

Actually, quite a few people just stay here.
a) Because it's so wonderful
b) because people just die

[jeffandnicole]

Because everyone going into New Jersey is probably going to come out of New Jersey at some point

Actually, quite a few people just stay here.
a) Because we have self serve gas
b) because people just die
Zzzzxzzzyzzzzzqqwzzzyyz) Because it is so wonderful

Fixed.

[cpzilliacus]

WTAE (4): 86-mile section of Pennsylvania Turnpike reopens entirely

Pennsylvania Turnpike officials say the toll road has completely reopened in western Pennsylvania several hours after a truck crash closed the entire highway.

Westbound traffic resumed about 12:45 p.m. on the 86-mile stretch between Breezewood and New Stanton interchanges. That was announced about an hour after the eastbound lanes reopened.

[PHLBOS]

I don't believe such was mentioned here as of yet, but along stretches of the Northeast Extension (I-476), north of Lansdale; the PTC has been installing enhanced mile markers (the ones that include the route number shield & direction) at every whole mile and large mile markers (w/no shield or direction) at every 0.1 mile.  These were installed along off the shoulders.  The older-style whole-mile markers, located on the median barrier, still remain.

[cpzilliacus]

I don't believe such was mentioned here as of yet, but along stretches of the Northeast Extension (I-476), north of Landale; the PTC has been installing enhanced mile markers (the ones that include the route number shield & direction) at every whole mile and large mile markers (w/no shield or direction) at every 0.1 mile.  These were installed along off the shoulders.  The older-style whole-mile markers, located on the median barrier, still remain.

I drove it in late June, and noticed those. 

The rebuilt section of I-476, from the I-276 (Mid-County) interchange north to Pa. 63 (Lansdale) has a very un-Pennsylvania Turnpike "look and feel" to it (and that is a complement).

[Flyer78]

I don't believe such was mentioned here as of yet, but along stretches of the Northeast Extension (I-476), north of Landale; the PTC has been installing enhanced mile markers (the ones that include the route number shield & direction) at every whole mile and large mile markers (w/no shield or direction) at every 0.1 mile.  These were installed along off the shoulders.  The older-style whole-mile markers, located on the median barrier, still remain.

It's funny, I was coming here to post this... They are pretty much in place north of the construction zone up to the Clarks Summit exit.

I also noticed a large number of curve warning signs at 60 MPH -- perhaps 70 will be coming one day soon...

[briantroutman]

The rebuilt section of I-476, from the I-276 (Mid-County) interchange north to Pa. 63 (Lansdale) has a very un-Pennsylvania Turnpike "look and feel" to it (and that is a complement).

I don't think that's a fair statement. I think it looks and feels very much like the other recently reconstructed sections of the PA Turnpike west of Carlisle. If you haven't seen much of the PA Turnpike system lately, you really ought to make a weekend trip, because it has changed remarkably in recent years and is still transforming rapidly.

[TravelingBethelite]

Because everyone going into New Jersey is probably going to come out of New Jersey at some point

Not even Chris Christie wants to stay. 

[MASTERNC]

I also noticed a large number of curve warning signs at 60 MPH -- perhaps 70 will be coming one day soon...

Possibly, but I would be more optimistic if some of the curves were posted at 65 MPH (as they are on the current 70 MPH section).

[cpzilliacus]

The rebuilt section of I-476, from the I-276 (Mid-County) interchange north to Pa. 63 (Lansdale) has a very un-Pennsylvania Turnpike "look and feel" to it (and that is a complement).

I don't think that's a fair statement. I think it looks and feels very much like the other recently reconstructed sections of the PA Turnpike west of Carlisle. If you haven't seen much of the PA Turnpike system lately, you really ought to make a weekend trip, because it has changed remarkably in recent years and is still transforming rapidly.

The Pennsylvania Turnpike west of Breezewood and the Northeast Extension are the sections I drive the most. 

Only been on the East-West Mainline sections between Breezewood and the Northeast Extension a relatively few times.

What really annoys me about the "totally reconstructed" sections of the Turnpike between Breezewood and the Ohio border is that it was not widened when it was "totally reconstructed."

On the Northeast Extension the PTC is widening (apparently) as far north as Quakertown (and it is needed).

[mariethefoxy]

Sorry if this is a stupid question that was answered before, but I couldn't find it on the PA Turnpike site. Is the EZPass discount on the PA Tpke only for Pennsylvania EZPasses or for any EzPass regardless of what state its from.

[cl94]

Sorry if this is a stupid question that was answered before, but I couldn't find it on the PA Turnpike site. Is the EZPass discount on the PA Tpke only for Pennsylvania EZPasses or for any EzPass regardless of what state its from.

Everyone

[SteveG1988]

I also noticed a large number of curve warning signs at 60 MPH -- perhaps 70 will be coming one day soon...

Possibly, but I would be more optimistic if some of the curves were posted at 65 MPH (as they are on the current 70 MPH section).

There are plenty of 65 curves in the 65.

[Gnutella]

What really annoys me about the "totally reconstructed" sections of the Turnpike between Breezewood and the Ohio border is that it was not widened when it was "totally reconstructed."

It was reconstructed almost 20 years ago. The decision to widen the Turnpike to six lanes was made about 10 years ago, which is why you'll notice that a) everything reconstructed through 2005 remained four lanes, b) there was a lull in reconstruction during the mid-2000s, and c) everything reconstructed since 2008 has been widened to six lanes. It just means they'll eventually have to go back and widen the segments between New Stanton and the Laurel Summit (24 miles), and between Somerset and the Allegheny Mountain Tunnel (12 miles).

[ARMOURERERIC]

What really annoys me about the "totally reconstructed" sections of the Turnpike between Breezewood and the Ohio border is that it was not widened when it was "totally reconstructed."

It was reconstructed almost 20 years ago. The decision to widen the Turnpike to six lanes was made about 10 years ago, which is why you'll notice that a) everything reconstructed through 2005 remained four lanes, b) there was a lull in reconstruction during the mid-2000s, and c) everything reconstructed since 2008 has been widened to six lanes. It just means they'll eventually have to go back and widen the segments between New Stanton and the Laurel Summit (24 miles), and between Somerset and the Allegheny Mountain Tunnel (12 miles).

I moved to CA before that work, did they at least grade for 6 lanes?  Did they rebuild the overhead bridges for 6 lanes?

[MASTERNC]

I also noticed a large number of curve warning signs at 60 MPH -- perhaps 70 will be coming one day soon...

Possibly, but I would be more optimistic if some of the curves were posted at 65 MPH (as they are on the current 70 MPH section).

There are plenty of 65 curves in the 65.

Yes, but 65 MPH curve signs were never posted until they were preparing to raise the speed limit on a section to 70.  Also wouldn't make a ton of sense to post advisory speeds equal to the speed limit (just the curve sign would suffice).

[MASTERNC]

What really annoys me about the "totally reconstructed" sections of the Turnpike between Breezewood and the Ohio border is that it was not widened when it was "totally reconstructed."

It was reconstructed almost 20 years ago. The decision to widen the Turnpike to six lanes was made about 10 years ago, which is why you'll notice that a) everything reconstructed through 2005 remained four lanes, b) there was a lull in reconstruction during the mid-2000s, and c) everything reconstructed since 2008 has been widened to six lanes. It just means they'll eventually have to go back and widen the segments between New Stanton and the Laurel Summit (24 miles), and between Somerset and the Allegheny Mountain Tunnel (12 miles).

I moved to CA before that work, did they at least grade for 6 lanes?  Did they rebuild the overhead bridges for 6 lanes?

Unfortunately not.  Case in point, this is east of Somerset

https://goo.gl/maps/7aKTs

[Mr_Northside]

Pretty much most of it from New Stanton to the Allegheny Tunnel was reconstructed without widening in mind (though eastbound has a nice long stretch ascending the Chestnut & Laurel Ridges to the Westmoreland / Somerset Co. line with 3 lanes in that direction).
The section they didn't get around to, from the Laurel Hill Tunnel bypass to near the Somerset interchange, is having bridges replaced now with 6-laning in mind. 
Not much has been reconstructed from the Bedford Co. line to Breezewood, though they are doing the overpass work with ones that will accommodate 6-laning near the county line (where the Church on the Turnpike is/was).
I can see a 4-lane bottleneck existing for decades to come where the Turnpike crosses US-30 near the Juniata River as well.  That looks to be a fairly new structure (when US-30 added the other river bridge) and is only designed for 4 lanes.