PA Turnpike News

[Ted$8roadFan]

PTC's core network (mainline and NE Extension) is quite old and unreconstructed parts don't meet modern driver expectations for things like shoulders, horizontal alignment, and ramp merge lengths.

Can somebody please show me an example of an acceleration or deceleration lane on the Pennsylvania Turnpike that's too short? The right of way is narrow on the four-lane segments of the Turnpike, but even back in the 1980s and 1990s, I cannot, for the life of me, recall any acceleration or deceleration lanes that were too short.

The ramp from I-476 north to I-276 east in Plymouth Meeting is too short IMO. But by and large, the Turnpike accel/decel lanes aren't as bad as some other PA highways.

[MASTERNC]

PTC's core network (mainline and NE Extension) is quite old and unreconstructed parts don't meet modern driver expectations for things like shoulders, horizontal alignment, and ramp merge lengths.

Can somebody please show me an example of an acceleration or deceleration lane on the Pennsylvania Turnpike that's too short? The right of way is narrow on the four-lane segments of the Turnpike, but even back in the 1980s and 1990s, I cannot, for the life of me, recall any acceleration or deceleration lanes that were too short.

The ramp from I-476 north to I-276 east in Plymouth Meeting is too short IMO. But by and large, the Turnpike accel/decel lanes aren't as bad as some other PA highways.

You are correct about that ramp - it is the source of major afternoon rush hour backups on both highways

[wanderer2575]

This is really a general question, but since the term was mentioned here:  Could someone point me to an article explaining "horizontal alignment" and "roadway geometry"?  Other than banking on a curve, I don't know what's being referred to even though the terms are often used here and in DOT documentation.

[cockroachking]

This is really a general question, but since the term was mentioned here:  Could someone point me to an article explaining "horizontal alignment" and "roadway geometry"?  Other than banking on a curve, I don't know what's being referred to even though the terms are often used here and in DOT documentation.

Horizontal Alignment
Roadway Geometry

Hope those help.

[wanderer2575]

This is really a general question, but since the term was mentioned here:  Could someone point me to an article explaining "horizontal alignment" and "roadway geometry"?  Other than banking on a curve, I don't know what's being referred to even though the terms are often used here and in DOT documentation.

Horizontal Alignment
Roadway Geometry

Hope those help.

Thanks; I'll try these.  I've been searching but haven't found layperson explanations; only more terminology.

[MASTERNC]

It's a little OT but it is disappointing to see New York and New Jersey add all these modern food options to their service plazas while the PA Turnpike seems to have stuck with the same Burger King and Roy Rogers options (with few other options at some plazas).  HMS Host's roadway plaza business was acquired by Applegreen, who is modernizing the NY Thruway plazas.  Even the NJ Turnpike now has options like Shake Shack and Chick-Fil-A.  I'd kill for one of those or a Panera on the PA Turnpike.

The only change I have seen in PA, meanwhile, is the replacement of some Starbucks locations with a Dunkin/Baskin Robbins combination.

[Rothman]

It's a little OT but it is disappointing to see New York and New Jersey add all these modern food options to their service plazas while the PA Turnpike seems to have stuck with the same Burger King and Roy Rogers options (with few other options at some plazas).  HMS Host's roadway plaza business was acquired by Applegreen, who is modernizing the NY Thruway plazas.  Even the NJ Turnpike now has options like Shake Shack and Chick-Fil-A.  I'd kill for one of those or a Panera on the PA Turnpike.

The only change I have seen in PA, meanwhile, is the replacement of some Starbucks locations with a Dunkin/Baskin Robbins combination.

Take a look at the crowds in some of the new Thruway plazas.  Be careful what you wish for.

[Flyer78]

Applegreen inherited these plazas too -- it seems like since the pandemic not all of the locations within a plaza reopened (at least on the NE Extension).

Still chuckle that Sunoco was picked for the statewide-contract due to its PA roots (/marketing BS) but the C-store division was sold to 7-11. How to make the fanatics of Sheetz or Wawa agree...

[Dough4872]

Applegreen inherited these plazas too -- it seems like since the pandemic not all of the locations within a plaza reopened (at least on the NE Extension).

Still chuckle that Sunoco was picked for the statewide-contract due to its PA roots (/marketing BS) but the C-store division was sold to 7-11. How to make the fanatics of Sheetz or Wawa agree...

It would be cool if Sheetz and Wawa could divide up the convenience store/gas station contracts on the PA Turnpike. Have Sheetz operate at all the plazas on the mainline west of the Susquehanna River and have Wawa operate at all the plazas on the mainline east of the Susquehanna River and on the Northeast Extension.

[jeffandnicole]

Applegreen inherited these plazas too -- it seems like since the pandemic not all of the locations within a plaza reopened (at least on the NE Extension).

Still chuckle that Sunoco was picked for the statewide-contract due to its PA roots (/marketing BS) but the C-store division was sold to 7-11. How to make the fanatics of Sheetz or Wawa agree...

It would be cool if Sheetz and Wawa could divide up the convenience store/gas station contracts on the PA Turnpike. Have Sheetz operate at all the plazas on the mainline west of the Susquehanna River and have Wawa operate at all the plazas on the mainline east of the Susquehanna River and on the Northeast Extension.

Wawa has always stated they want nothing to do with private concession contracts. They won't go in airports, ballparks, stadiums, arenas, turnpikes, etc. Well I don't follow Sheetz as closely, they seem to have the same attitudes.

[Dough4872]

Applegreen inherited these plazas too -- it seems like since the pandemic not all of the locations within a plaza reopened (at least on the NE Extension).

Still chuckle that Sunoco was picked for the statewide-contract due to its PA roots (/marketing BS) but the C-store division was sold to 7-11. How to make the fanatics of Sheetz or Wawa agree...

It would be cool if Sheetz and Wawa could divide up the convenience store/gas station contracts on the PA Turnpike. Have Sheetz operate at all the plazas on the mainline west of the Susquehanna River and have Wawa operate at all the plazas on the mainline east of the Susquehanna River and on the Northeast Extension.

Wawa has always stated they want nothing to do with private concession contracts. They won't go in airports, ballparks, stadiums, arenas, turnpikes, etc. Well I don't follow Sheetz as closely, they seem to have the same attitudes.

That's a shame because this could be a lucrative business for Wawa or Sheetz to serve a captive audience.

[Ted$8roadFan]

Applegreen inherited these plazas too -- it seems like since the pandemic not all of the locations within a plaza reopened (at least on the NE Extension).

Still chuckle that Sunoco was picked for the statewide-contract due to its PA roots (/marketing BS) but the C-store division was sold to 7-11. How to make the fanatics of Sheetz or Wawa agree...

It would be cool if Sheetz and Wawa could divide up the convenience store/gas station contracts on the PA Turnpike. Have Sheetz operate at all the plazas on the mainline west of the Susquehanna River and have Wawa operate at all the plazas on the mainline east of the Susquehanna River and on the Northeast Extension.

Wawa has always stated they want nothing to do with private concession contracts. They won't go in airports, ballparks, stadiums, arenas, turnpikes, etc. Well I don't follow Sheetz as closely, they seem to have the same attitudes.

That's a shame because this could be a lucrative business for Wawa or Sheetz to serve a captive audience.

It would indeed be cool if Wawa and Sheetz would open at least some stores in the Turnpike. It would add to the uniqueness of the Turnpike experience and introduce them to many travelers who would otherwise not know or have a chance to visit them.

[kalvado]

Someday, the reps at the PA Turnpike will start to realize that widening more parts of the turnpike for a decreasing amount of traffic (due to the high tolls) doesn't make sense anymore...

I would think about those reconstructions as jacking up asset value before sale. Someone will have to bail out PTC out of debt - and that may not be the state.

[Bitmapped]

Someday, the reps at the PA Turnpike will start to realize that widening more parts of the turnpike for a decreasing amount of traffic (due to the high tolls) doesn't make sense anymore...

I would think about those reconstructions as jacking up asset value before sale. Someone will have to bail out PTC out of debt - and that may not be the state.

I can't see any scenario where that would happen. It was floated during the Rendell administration and pretty soundly shot down. Considering that a buyer/lessor would have to pay for the cost of the assets plus the debt service on those assets, tolls would only be driven higher. It's a non-starter.

[kalvado]

Someday, the reps at the PA Turnpike will start to realize that widening more parts of the turnpike for a decreasing amount of traffic (due to the high tolls) doesn't make sense anymore...

I would think about those reconstructions as jacking up asset value before sale. Someone will have to bail out PTC out of debt - and that may not be the state.

I can't see any scenario where that would happen. It was floated during the Rendell administration and pretty soundly shot down. Considering that a buyer/lessor would have to pay for the cost of the assets plus the debt service on those assets, tolls would only be driven higher. It's a non-starter.

It's called bankruptcy - bond holder gets as much money as they can for the asset. Or PTC bonds are backed by state government?
Good thing if PA  has $10B they don't need and can use for bailout, but looks like they expect budget to go into red in a few years as well. 

[Bitmapped]

Someday, the reps at the PA Turnpike will start to realize that widening more parts of the turnpike for a decreasing amount of traffic (due to the high tolls) doesn't make sense anymore...

I would think about those reconstructions as jacking up asset value before sale. Someone will have to bail out PTC out of debt - and that may not be the state.

I can't see any scenario where that would happen. It was floated during the Rendell administration and pretty soundly shot down. Considering that a buyer/lessor would have to pay for the cost of the assets plus the debt service on those assets, tolls would only be driven higher. It's a non-starter.

It's called bankruptcy - bond holder gets as much money as they can for the asset. Or PTC bonds are backed by state government?
Good thing if PA  has $10B they don't need and can use for bailout, but looks like they expect budget to go into red in a few years as well. 

PTC's debt are revenue bonds, not general obligation bonds. That's the reason why state governments create a standalone agency for issuing debt.

It makes no logical sense for PTC to try to pump up the value of its assets expecting that bondholders will take over the assets. PTC doesn't benefit from that scenario.

While PTC has a large debt load, there's no indication it is incapable of servicing it. As long as they can keep making payments as scheduled, they're fine. There are places in PTC's budget (like construction projects) where it could avoid or defer spending and still remain in compliance with its bond covenants if it was experiencing difficulty servicing its debt. The fact they're continuing to do reconstruction projects suggests this is not a problem.

[roadman65]

In 1983 or circa, I remember US 611 was still signed on Willow Grove guides.

Does anyone remember if PA 309 was still erroneously signed as 309 in the 1983 era?

I never made it west of Exit 27, so I never got to see Exit 26 guides until the late eighties when PTC had all 60’s era guides replaced by then.

[wilbur_the_goose]

We're seeing a number of projects under Turnpike bridges here in Chester County.   They're digging trenches and covering them on the roads under the Turnpike bridges.

Any idea what this could be?    Mileposts near 312.

[74/171FAN]

We're seeing a number of projects under Turnpike bridges here in Chester County.   They're digging trenches and covering them on the roads under the Turnpike bridges.

Any idea what this could be?    Mileposts near 312.

Presumably lengthening bridges for future 6-lane widening.

[ARMOURERERIC]

A contact was let a few months back to widen either 308 - 312 or 312-316 to 6 lanes with full reconstruction

[roadman65]

https://www.wtae.com/article/new-interchange-for-pennsylvania-turnpike-one-step-closer/44911884

New interchange soon to come.

[davewiecking]

https://www.wtae.com/article/new-interchange-for-pennsylvania-turnpike-one-step-closer/44911884

New interchange soon to come.

"Possible because Act 44 expired..."

[Dough4872]

https://www.wtae.com/article/new-interchange-for-pennsylvania-turnpike-one-step-closer/44911884

New interchange soon to come.

"Possible because Act 44 expired..."

So does this mean we're gonna be seeing more road improvement projects to the Pennsylvania Turnpike in the coming years since they don't have to divert their toll revenue to SEPTA?

[Bitmapped]

https://www.wtae.com/article/new-interchange-for-pennsylvania-turnpike-one-step-closer/44911884

New interchange soon to come.

"Possible because Act 44 expired..."

So does this mean we're gonna be seeing more road improvement projects to the Pennsylvania Turnpike in the coming years since they don't have to divert their toll revenue to SEPTA?

PTC has indicated they intend to step up capital improvements but they still have a monstrous debt load to service, so I wouldn't expect to see a ton more construction.

[Mr_Northside]

We're seeing a number of projects under Turnpike bridges here in Chester County.   They're digging trenches and covering them on the roads under the Turnpike bridges.

Any idea what this could be?    Mileposts near 312.

I'm not that familiar with that part of the state, but I know the PTC was planning on running a fiber line/network/trunk along their system.   If it's just trenches and covering them, could it be that?  (I know they are doing the eastern part of the state first, so maybe they have already done that, and this is for a full reconstruction/widening)