I-49 Coming to Missouri

[US71]

:o:o:o;)

Will the clusterfuck at BL 49/MO 171/MO 249/Route HH have to be upgraded to bring the road to I-standards?  Will I-249 be duplexed with BL 49?

FWIW, the HH/171/249 area is being redesigned as we speak (type?)

If 249 goes I-49 or I-249, I don't see the section east to Carthage being upgraded, but building another alignment... and messing up Richie's exit guides

MB886

[mvak36]

So if that loop (249/171/etc) is signed as I-49, would the current I-49 (from exits 46 to 53) be signed as I-249?

[Anthony_JK]

So if that loop (249/171/etc) is signed as I-49, would the current I-49 (from exits 46 to 53) be signed as I-249?

Probably would remain as or return to US 71/MO 59, if past history is any trend.

[Scott5114]

It would be kind of silly to have US-71 follow I-44 when a road is being built for the purpose of avoiding I-49 from having to do the same.

[bugo]

They could reroute mainline US 71 to follow the old Alt US 71 (now MO 59) highway from Neosho to Carthage.

[Scott5114]

Doubtful AASHTO would approve the routing, though...US routes have to follow the "best route", and moving routes from a freeway to a surface road is notoriously difficult.

[US71]

Doubtful AASHTO would approve the routing, though...US routes have to follow the "best route", and moving routes from a freeway to a surface road is notoriously difficult.

unless 49 was tolled, then it would become easier to justify.
I would suspect MO59 would be extended, but would 571 remain the same considering it's a Spur of 71?


MB886

[Anthony_JK]

:o:o:o;)

Will the clusterfuck at BL 49/MO 171/MO 249/Route HH have to be upgraded to bring the road to I-standards?  Will I-249 be duplexed with BL 49?

FWIW, the HH/171/249 area is being redesigned as we speak (type?)

If 249 goes I-49 or I-249, I don't see the section east to Carthage being upgraded, but building another alignment... and messing up Richie's exit guides

MB886

Unless Google Maps is lying, that segment of MO 171 from MO 249 to I-49/US 71 is already full freeway up to the diamond interchange with I-49...so, it may only take direct connector ramps to do the trick. There is developed property, though, right up against the interchange making an upgrade more difficult, so I can see a new terrain alignment making sense.

[bugo]

Unless Google Maps is lying, that segment of MO 171 from MO 249 to I-49/US 71 is already full freeway up to the diamond interchange with I-49...so, it may only take direct connector ramps to do the trick. There is developed property, though, right up against the interchange making an upgrade more difficult, so I can see a new terrain alignment making sense.

It is indeed a full freeway up to the diamond.  A couple of flyovers could solve the problem, but I'd rather see a new freeway from somewhere on 171/49B/96 to the sharp curve on 49/71 than just a couple of flyovers.

[US71]

Unless Google Maps is lying, that segment of MO 171 from MO 249 to I-49/US 71 is already full freeway up to the diamond interchange with I-49...so, it may only take direct connector ramps to do the trick. There is developed property, though, right up against the interchange making an upgrade more difficult, so I can see a new terrain alignment making sense.

It is indeed a full freeway up to the diamond.  A couple of flyovers could solve the problem, but I'd rather see a new freeway from somewhere on 171/49B/96 to the sharp curve on 49/71 than just a couple of flyovers.

I read somewhere that when 249 was built, there were future plans to extend it, perhaps as a city street (?)


MB886

[Grzrd]

Full lists: http://www.modot.org/movingforward/
The Bella Vista bypass is listed.

(above quote from MoDOT's Transportation Sales Tax 10-Year Project List thread)
Great news that inclusion of the BVB in the draft list is official!

The Bella Vista Bypass remains in the Final Commission-Approved Southwest Region Project List and has an estimated construction cost of $32.49 million.

This article reports that the long-term plan is for the MO249/MO 171 corridor to be I-49, and not I-249

The MO 249/ MO 171 interstate upgrade project also remains in the above-linked Final Commission-Approved List and has an estimated construction cost of $62.44 million.

[Brandon]

Doubtful AASHTO would approve the routing, though...US routes have to follow the "best route", and moving routes from a freeway to a surface road is notoriously difficult.

unless 49 was tolled, then it would become easier to justify.

US-51 along I-90 in Illinois says "hello". 

[Molandfreak]

Doubtful AASHTO would approve the routing, though...US routes have to follow the "best route", and moving routes from a freeway to a surface road is notoriously difficult.

unless 49 was tolled, then it would become easier to justify.

US-51 along I-90 in Illinois says "hello". 

That shit should never have been approved. It should be a parallel route in both Illinois and Wisconsin for consistency and as a free alternate in Illinois.

[bugo]

Doubtful AASHTO would approve the routing, though...US routes have to follow the "best route", and moving routes from a freeway to a surface road is notoriously difficult.

unless 49 was tolled, then it would become easier to justify.

US-51 along I-90 in Illinois says "hello". 

That shit should never have been approved. It should be a parallel route in both Illinois and Wisconsin for consistency and as a free alternate in Illinois.

I agree.  However, I approve of US 412 being on the Cherokee and Cimarron Turnpikes in Oklahoma.  First, US 412 is a "super US highway" along with 400 and 425 and should not be held to the same standards as US 51.  Secondly,  in both instances there are US highways paralleling US 412 (US 412A, US 64).

[Scott5114]

There's also the fact that the 412 turnpikes would not have a numeric designation without 412. If US-51 were still on its surface alignment, the turnpike would still be I-90.

[Alps]

Doubtful AASHTO would approve the routing, though...US routes have to follow the "best route", and moving routes from a freeway to a surface road is notoriously difficult.

unless 49 was tolled, then it would become easier to justify.

US-51 along I-90 in Illinois says "hello". 

That shit should never have been approved. It should be a parallel route in both Illinois and Wisconsin for consistency and as a free alternate in Illinois.

US 51 should follow IL 251 through Rockford. I mean, heck, it should follow IL 251 for much longer than that, but AASHTO for whatever reason won't let anyone put US routes back where they belong after a freeway is built.

[TheStranger]

US 51 should follow IL 251 through Rockford. I mean, heck, it should follow IL 251 for much longer than that, but AASHTO for whatever reason won't let anyone put US routes back where they belong after a freeway is built.

When US 117 was returned to its surface road alignment in North Carolina, did that require any AASHTO approval?

[Alps]

US 51 should follow IL 251 through Rockford. I mean, heck, it should follow IL 251 for much longer than that, but AASHTO for whatever reason won't let anyone put US routes back where they belong after a freeway is built.

When US 117 was returned to its surface road alignment in North Carolina, did that require any AASHTO approval?

Yes, but it didn't receive any. Consequences unknown. If other states started following suit, consequences could become known.

[Scott5114]

As far as I know, AASHTO did exactly fuck all about ODOT unilaterally extending US 377 after being specifically denied on multiple occasions. If they wouldn't do anything then, I doubt they would ever do anything ever. The only more egregious defiance possible would be inventing a route out of whole cloth.

[bugo]

US 51 should follow IL 251 through Rockford. I mean, heck, it should follow IL 251 for much longer than that, but AASHTO for whatever reason won't let anyone put US routes back where they belong after a freeway is built.

When US 117 was returned to its surface road alignment in North Carolina, did that require any AASHTO approval?

Yes, but it didn't receive any. Consequences unknown. If other states started following suit, consequences could become known.

AHTD moved US 70 from I-30 back onto the surface route that was signed US 70B for years.  They didn't, however, move US 67 back.  I don't think AASHTO was notified.

Last time I was there, there was an I-30/US 67/US 70 sign on EB I-30 just west of the I-530 interchange, but I don't know if it's still there or not.

[Grzrd]

It appears that rejection of the transportation sales tax by Missouri voters in November would not be the death knell for the Bella Vista Bypass. MoDOT has posted its Draft 2015-19 Southwest District Highway and Bridge Construction Schedule and it shows a 2018 Award Date and schedules construction for the Bella Vista Bypass during the July, 2017 to June, 2018 time period (page 15/32 of pdf)

This article reports that the transportation sales tax was defeated and the BVB is now in limbo; however, Arkansas officials are hopeful that Missouri will still find a way to complete its section:

Missouri voters overwhelming rejected an increase in the state's sale tax to pay for highways, roads and bridges ... This leaves the Bella Vista bypass project north of the Arkansas border in limbo ....
Arkansas officials remain hopeful that Missouri will find the money to complete its portion of the road, but until then the full benefit of Arkansas' $150 million investment cannot be realized.

Also, the Missouri Highways and Transportation Commission apparently approved the 2015-19 STIP today, and the Bella Vista Bypass remains in an unchanged position in the STIP (here are the changes that were made to the Draft STIP: http://www.modot.org/plansandprojects/construction_program/STIP2015-2019/documents/RevisionsfromDraftSTIPtoFinalSTIPWordingforposting.pdf).

Above said, now that the sales tax has been defeated, I will not be surprised if the STIP will be amended in the future to at least allow grading work before 2018.  I am sure that Arkansas will strongly encourage them to do so.

This article reports that the long-term plan is for the MO249/MO 171 corridor to be I-49, and not I-249

As far as I can tell, this project is not in the 2015-19 STIP and it is apparently now in the deep freeze.

[US71]

It appears that rejection of the transportation sales tax by Missouri voters in November would not be the death knell for the Bella Vista Bypass. MoDOT has posted its Draft 2015-19 Southwest District Highway and Bridge Construction Schedule and it shows a 2018 Award Date and schedules construction for the Bella Vista Bypass during the July, 2017 to June, 2018 time period (page 15/32 of pdf)

I asked MoDOT this morning if they had alternate plans for finishing I-49 and their response was basically "we have no money".

[bugo]

Good ol' Republicans...too cheap to pay taxes even if they are going for desperately needed projects like new highways (especially in a state like Missouri that is notorious for having bad roads.)

[Revive 755]

^ The Democratic regions of St. Louis and Kansas City had higher percentages against the tax than some of the rural counties.  Maybe a sales tax isn't the way to go?

[Scott5114]

How did Amendment 3 work? I remember MoDOT touting that as funding a lot of their projects when I lived up there.