Wisconsin notes

[Molandfreak]

It is fully-signed, including signage on the off-ramps. I don't know why it was omitted from the BGS.

[The Ghostbuster]

Exit 131 on STH 29 had its Business 29 shield removed sometime between October 2015 and October 2019 (according to Google Maps Street View). Exit 134 also had its Business 29 shield removed sometime between September 2015 and October 2019 (again according to Google Maps Street View). Wisconsin may decommission its Business 29s at some point, but for the foreseeable future, all four of them will continue to exist.

[SEWIGuy]

This is a great case where business designations are useless. All of the major services are off the WI-13 exit in Abbotsford.

[Molandfreak]

The Abbotsford business loop was only useful to me on a trip from southbound STH-13 to westbound STH-29 since it is faster to use the business loop than it is to follow 13 the rest of the way through town. Although a couple of "To STH-29 east/west" signs would have that same effect.

[mgk920]

I seriously don't think that many people are interested in exploring the 'old' route through that place.  They just want to get from one end of the highway to the other as quickly, safely and comfortably as possible.

Mike

[Molandfreak]

I seriously don't think that many people are interested in exploring the 'old' route through that place.  They just want to get from one end of the highway to the other as quickly, safely and comfortably as possible.

Mike

Right, I'm just saying that in this case, having the old route marked as a business loop benefits some motorists since mainline 29 bypasses Abbotsford so far to the south. It's more efficient to take the business loop to the east or west than it is to follow STH-13 through the rest of town. There are other ways of conveying that information, though.

[TheCatalyst31]

I seriously don't think that many people are interested in exploring the 'old' route through that place.  They just want to get from one end of the highway to the other as quickly, safely and comfortably as possible.

Mike

Maybe we can get AASHTO to approve a new "roadgeek" banner for old alignments that nobody else cares about.

[Molandfreak]

I seriously don't think that many people are interested in exploring the 'old' route through that place.  They just want to get from one end of the highway to the other as quickly, safely and comfortably as possible.

Mike

Maybe we can get AASHTO to approve a new "roadgeek" banner for old alignments that nobody else cares about.

This area signs the old Yellowstone auto trail pretty well, and that's pretty universally understood as a hobby route you wouldn't seriously follow unless your trip goal is to learn more about the auto trail.

[mgk920]

I seriously don't think that many people are interested in exploring the 'old' route through that place.  They just want to get from one end of the highway to the other as quickly, safely and comfortably as possible.

Mike

Maybe we can get AASHTO to approve a new "roadgeek" banner for old alignments that nobody else cares about.

This area signs the old Yellowstone auto trail pretty well, and that's pretty universally understood as a hobby route you wouldn't seriously follow unless your trip goal is to learn more about the auto trail.

The very original routing of US 41, and earlier WI 15 in Wisconsin was very different, indeed, from present day US and I-41, and much of it and its intermediate routings are still drivable and fun to recreationally explore.  Ditto the Yellowstone Trail in Wisconsin and Illinois.

Mike

[dvferyance]

Wisdot isn't very good with math. On the Hwy 59 millage sign right after Hwy 83 it says Whitewater is 14 miles. The next milage sign right after Eagle after you have gone at least 5 miles also says Whitewater is 14 miles. How could I have gone several miles and Whitewater still be the same distance as before? And that's not all on US 14 after Darien it says Chicago is 70 miles. After Walworth 7 miles later the next milage sign now says Chicago is 81 miles away. So Chicago is now somehow 11 miles further despite being 7 miles closer.

[SEWIGuy]

Wisdot isn't very good with math. On the Hwy 59 millage sign right after Hwy 83 it says Whitewater is 14 miles. The next milage sign right after Eagle after you have gone at least 5 miles also says Whitewater is 14 miles. How could I have gone several miles and Whitewater still be the same distance as before? And that's not all on US 14 after Darien it says Chicago is 70 miles. After Walworth 7 miles later the next milage sign now says Chicago is 81 miles away. So Chicago is now somehow 11 miles further despite being 7 miles closer.

Did they change this sign?

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9559802,-88.3629116,3a,75y,226.13h,76.86t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sfbrlZJ94LyDVvFlSsHnmaA!2e0!5s20211101T000000!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D13.138705774836623%26panoid%3DfbrlZJ94LyDVvFlSsHnmaA%26yaw%3D226.13204063880588!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu

[peterj920]

It seems as if there's been a shift from measuring mileage from a city's center to the city limits. Here's a sign on I-39/90 past County M that says Madison is 4 miles. Downtown is a lot farther than that but the city limits and The Beltline interchange is 4 miles away.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/SaFP78h5zEQPEEYY7?g_st=ic

[The Ghostbuster]

The eastbound sign on Interstate 94 east of the Badger Interchange still lists Milwaukee as being 72 miles away, just like it always has: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1031698,-89.2592304,3a,75y,104.01h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1syk7JAWJsXpZvypO7kx1ipQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D0%26panoid%3Dyk7JAWJsXpZvypO7kx1ipQ%26yaw%3D104.00574316403225!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu. This guide sign on Interstate 94 west of the CTH N interchange has always given the distance to Madison as 9 miles away: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.108609,-89.2228353,3a,75y,272.2h,94.24t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sNlqXeFHx39ReXyspWSyKgw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-4.240339292831123%26panoid%3DNlqXeFHx39ReXyspWSyKgw%26yaw%3D272.2011656006654!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu. Maybe in the future, those signs will change, although I doubt it.

[dvferyance]

Wisdot isn't very good with math. On the Hwy 59 millage sign right after Hwy 83 it says Whitewater is 14 miles. The next milage sign right after Eagle after you have gone at least 5 miles also says Whitewater is 14 miles. How could I have gone several miles and Whitewater still be the same distance as before? And that's not all on US 14 after Darien it says Chicago is 70 miles. After Walworth 7 miles later the next milage sign now says Chicago is 81 miles away. So Chicago is now somehow 11 miles further despite being 7 miles closer.

Wisdot isn't very good with math. On the Hwy 59 millage sign right after Hwy 83 it says Whitewater is 14 miles. The next milage sign right after Eagle after you have gone at least 5 miles also says Whitewater is 14 miles. How could I have gone several miles and Whitewater still be the same distance as before? And that's not all on US 14 after Darien it says Chicago is 70 miles. After Walworth 7 miles later the next milage sign now says Chicago is 81 miles away. So Chicago is now somehow 11 miles further despite being 7 miles closer.

Did they change this sign?

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9559802,-88.3629116,3a,75y,226.13h,76.86t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sfbrlZJ94LyDVvFlSsHnmaA!2e0!5s20211101T000000!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D13.138705774836623%26panoid%3DfbrlZJ94LyDVvFlSsHnmaA%26yaw%3D226.13204063880588!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu

Yes they did. The bottom line no longer says Eagle it says Whitewater is 14 miles which is the same distance the millage sign right after Eagle says. My guess is 24 miles to Whitewater would be the correct millage here. When I first saw it I thought 14 miles seemed a bit short. And North Prairie was changed to 2 miles instead of 3. I also noticed a couple weeks ago the mileage sign on WI-13 south of WI-21 says it's 28 miles to the Dells when it had previously said 29.

[hobsini2]

Wisdot isn't very good with math. On the Hwy 59 millage sign right after Hwy 83 it says Whitewater is 14 miles. The next milage sign right after Eagle after you have gone at least 5 miles also says Whitewater is 14 miles. How could I have gone several miles and Whitewater still be the same distance as before? And that's not all on US 14 after Darien it says Chicago is 70 miles. After Walworth 7 miles later the next milage sign now says Chicago is 81 miles away. So Chicago is now somehow 11 miles further despite being 7 miles closer.

Wisdot isn't very good with math. On the Hwy 59 millage sign right after Hwy 83 it says Whitewater is 14 miles. The next milage sign right after Eagle after you have gone at least 5 miles also says Whitewater is 14 miles. How could I have gone several miles and Whitewater still be the same distance as before? And that's not all on US 14 after Darien it says Chicago is 70 miles. After Walworth 7 miles later the next milage sign now says Chicago is 81 miles away. So Chicago is now somehow 11 miles further despite being 7 miles closer.

Did they change this sign?

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9559802,-88.3629116,3a,75y,226.13h,76.86t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sfbrlZJ94LyDVvFlSsHnmaA!2e0!5s20211101T000000!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D13.138705774836623%26panoid%3DfbrlZJ94LyDVvFlSsHnmaA%26yaw%3D226.13204063880588!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu

Yes they did. The bottom line no longer says Eagle it says Whitewater is 14 miles which is the same distance the millage sign right after Eagle says. My guess is 24 miles to Whitewater would be the correct millage here. When I first saw it I thought 14 miles seemed a bit short. And North Prairie was changed to 2 miles instead of 3. I also noticed a couple weeks ago the mileage sign on WI-13 south of WI-21 says it's 28 miles to the Dells when it had previously said 29.

Periodically, the mileage signs do change. I remember as a kid, the sign in at 23/73 for Princeton said 3 miles. Now, it says Princeton 2, Wis Dells 46.
2015:
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.8361151,-89.0793839,3a,15.1y,288.82h,85.22t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1szk50O-f7tpZePdIm33ulrg!2e0!5s20150901T000000!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D4.78053206837258%26panoid%3Dzk50O-f7tpZePdIm33ulrg%26yaw%3D288.8246209736996!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?coh=205410&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDgyMy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

Current as of 2023: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.8361054,-89.0795068,3a,22.2y,297.39h,89.88t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1skMsNb6DZTdqDsjnWANkQkA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D0.12248731726650419%26panoid%3DkMsNb6DZTdqDsjnWANkQkA%26yaw%3D297.3909139503152!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?coh=205410&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDgyMy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

I do like the fact they added Wis Dells as a control now for 23 West.

[JMAN_WiS&S]

I just drove on a resurfaced Wis 16 Oconomowoc Bypass which features white then black stripes even on asphalt. The Wis 15 Hortonville Bypass was striped the same way but the black stands out way more since that was on concrete. However, I-43 is being striped with the white/black outline stripes. Will the new longer white/black stripes be used on new projects after I-43?

Based on this year's epoxy restripes, it seems like all Interstate designations, and expressway/freeway designated STH/USH's with speeds 65+ will have it regardless of concrete or asphalt, while lower classifications seem to be just doing the traditional white skips. The only exception this year are contractors that pre-purchased 3M permanent grooved marking tape in the old oreo cookie pattern are allowed to use the rest of their supplies first. Roads that are older surfaces that are currently being painted annually with waterborne paint will NOT be getting the black skips. Only the epoxy paints.

[Rothman]

The contrast between white-then-black striping sequentially is being more broadly considered nationwide.

[Big John]

I see WISDOT has concepts for the Mason St Bridge posted that will be the framework for alternatives. One is "as is" being elevated from Ashland to Monroe, another is just a bridge over the Fox River, and the 3rd with a bridge over Ashland, the railroad and at grade on the east side of the river..

https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/by-region/ne/masonbrstudy/concept.pdf

I sure hope the new bridge stays the same length. Just improve the interchanges and add bike/ped access. Why create new at grade intersections that will cause more traffic delays and accidents? It's the only bridge downtown over the rail line and that can avoid most boat openings because of the higher clearance. Don't mess up what's already working well and make it worse.

another public meeting is being held on Wednesday September 25 from 5-7 pm at the Neville Public Museum.

[JREwing78]

I see WISDOT has concepts for the Mason St Bridge posted that will be the framework for alternatives. One is "as is" being elevated from Ashland to Monroe, another is just a bridge over the Fox River, and the 3rd with a bridge over Ashland, the railroad and at grade on the east side of the river..

https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/by-region/ne/masonbrstudy/concept.pdf

I sure hope the new bridge stays the same length. Just improve the interchanges and add bike/ped access. Why create new at grade intersections that will cause more traffic delays and accidents? It's the only bridge downtown over the rail line and that can avoid most boat openings because of the higher clearance. Don't mess up what's already working well and make it worse.

another public meeting is being held on Wednesday September 25 from 5-7 pm at the Neville Public Museum.

Based on traffic counts and its position relative to downtown and to Lambeau Field, there's an excellent case to be made to rebuild the existing bridge pretty much as-is. The only Fox River crossings that have heavier traffic are I-43 and Hwy 172. There's still sufficient rail traffic that you wouldn't want to revert to an at-grade crossing - and it could very well increase in the next 50-75 years.

There's a case to simplify some of the ramps on each side, but with limited other options to cross the Fox River, and Mason St already built out for heavy traffic, it's hard for me to justify downgrading.

A SPUI interchange at Ashland Ave would simplify traffic flow there. One could perhaps see another SPUI at Monroe Ave (replacing the offramp to Madison St and perhaps the on-ramp from Jefferson St, but the proximity of Howe Elementary makes this tricky. I'd rather have the traffic on one street instead of three, though. I'm sure the surrounding neighborhood would also prefer that Jefferson St and Madison St lose their ramps and return to two-way traffic.

[Big John]

I see WISDOT has concepts for the Mason St Bridge posted that will be the framework for alternatives. One is "as is" being elevated from Ashland to Monroe, another is just a bridge over the Fox River, and the 3rd with a bridge over Ashland, the railroad and at grade on the east side of the river..

https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/by-region/ne/masonbrstudy/concept.pdf

I sure hope the new bridge stays the same length. Just improve the interchanges and add bike/ped access. Why create new at grade intersections that will cause more traffic delays and accidents? It's the only bridge downtown over the rail line and that can avoid most boat openings because of the higher clearance. Don't mess up what's already working well and make it worse.

another public meeting is being held on Wednesday September 25 from 5-7 pm at the Neville Public Museum.

Based on traffic counts and its position relative to downtown and to Lambeau Field, there's an excellent case to be made to rebuild the existing bridge pretty much as-is. The only Fox River crossings that have heavier traffic are I-43 and Hwy 172. There's still sufficient rail traffic that you wouldn't want to revert to an at-grade crossing - and it could very well increase in the next 50-75 years.

There's a case to simplify some of the ramps on each side, but with limited other options to cross the Fox River, and Mason St already built out for heavy traffic, it's hard for me to justify downgrading.

A SPUI interchange at Ashland Ave would simplify traffic flow there. One could perhaps see another SPUI at Monroe Ave (replacing the offramp to Madison St and perhaps the on-ramp from Jefferson St, but the proximity of Howe Elementary makes this tricky. I'd rather have the traffic on one street instead of three, though. I'm sure the surrounding neighborhood would also prefer that Jefferson St and Madison St lose their ramps and return to two-way traffic.

The Green Bay school district is considering closing Howe School if it is justified to improve traffic flow, factoring in the age of the building and decreased enrollment.

[SEWIGuy]

I see WISDOT has concepts for the Mason St Bridge posted that will be the framework for alternatives. One is "as is" being elevated from Ashland to Monroe, another is just a bridge over the Fox River, and the 3rd with a bridge over Ashland, the railroad and at grade on the east side of the river..

https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/by-region/ne/masonbrstudy/concept.pdf

I sure hope the new bridge stays the same length. Just improve the interchanges and add bike/ped access. Why create new at grade intersections that will cause more traffic delays and accidents? It's the only bridge downtown over the rail line and that can avoid most boat openings because of the higher clearance. Don't mess up what's already working well and make it worse.

another public meeting is being held on Wednesday September 25 from 5-7 pm at the Neville Public Museum.

Based on traffic counts and its position relative to downtown and to Lambeau Field, there's an excellent case to be made to rebuild the existing bridge pretty much as-is. The only Fox River crossings that have heavier traffic are I-43 and Hwy 172. There's still sufficient rail traffic that you wouldn't want to revert to an at-grade crossing - and it could very well increase in the next 50-75 years.

There's a case to simplify some of the ramps on each side, but with limited other options to cross the Fox River, and Mason St already built out for heavy traffic, it's hard for me to justify downgrading.

A SPUI interchange at Ashland Ave would simplify traffic flow there. One could perhaps see another SPUI at Monroe Ave (replacing the offramp to Madison St and perhaps the on-ramp from Jefferson St, but the proximity of Howe Elementary makes this tricky. I'd rather have the traffic on one street instead of three, though. I'm sure the surrounding neighborhood would also prefer that Jefferson St and Madison St lose their ramps and return to two-way traffic.

I agree with you completely. Mason Street is the easiest way to get from one side of town to the other without getting on a highway. It should be built pretty much as is.

[hobsini2]

I see WISDOT has concepts for the Mason St Bridge posted that will be the framework for alternatives. One is "as is" being elevated from Ashland to Monroe, another is just a bridge over the Fox River, and the 3rd with a bridge over Ashland, the railroad and at grade on the east side of the river..

https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/by-region/ne/masonbrstudy/concept.pdf

I sure hope the new bridge stays the same length. Just improve the interchanges and add bike/ped access. Why create new at grade intersections that will cause more traffic delays and accidents? It's the only bridge downtown over the rail line and that can avoid most boat openings because of the higher clearance. Don't mess up what's already working well and make it worse.

another public meeting is being held on Wednesday September 25 from 5-7 pm at the Neville Public Museum.

Based on traffic counts and its position relative to downtown and to Lambeau Field, there's an excellent case to be made to rebuild the existing bridge pretty much as-is. The only Fox River crossings that have heavier traffic are I-43 and Hwy 172. There's still sufficient rail traffic that you wouldn't want to revert to an at-grade crossing - and it could very well increase in the next 50-75 years.

There's a case to simplify some of the ramps on each side, but with limited other options to cross the Fox River, and Mason St already built out for heavy traffic, it's hard for me to justify downgrading.

A SPUI interchange at Ashland Ave would simplify traffic flow there. One could perhaps see another SPUI at Monroe Ave (replacing the offramp to Madison St and perhaps the on-ramp from Jefferson St, but the proximity of Howe Elementary makes this tricky. I'd rather have the traffic on one street instead of three, though. I'm sure the surrounding neighborhood would also prefer that Jefferson St and Madison St lose their ramps and return to two-way traffic.

I agree with you completely. Mason Street is the easiest way to get from one side of town to the other without getting on a highway. It should be built pretty much as is.

I'm pretty sure Mason St is the bridge I usually use to leave Green Bay from Lambeau. I park for free about 7 blocks north of the stadium off Oneida. Parking costs at the stadium and the traffic in and out of the game is terrible.

[mgk920]

Gameday traffic will be much improved in a few years when the I-41 six laning project is completed.

Mike

[peterj920]

I see WISDOT has concepts for the Mason St Bridge posted that will be the framework for alternatives. One is "as is" being elevated from Ashland to Monroe, another is just a bridge over the Fox River, and the 3rd with a bridge over Ashland, the railroad and at grade on the east side of the river..

https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/by-region/ne/masonbrstudy/concept.pdf

I sure hope the new bridge stays the same length. Just improve the interchanges and add bike/ped access. Why create new at grade intersections that will cause more traffic delays and accidents? It's the only bridge downtown over the rail line and that can avoid most boat openings because of the higher clearance. Don't mess up what's already working well and make it worse.

another public meeting is being held on Wednesday September 25 from 5-7 pm at the Neville Public Museum.

Based on traffic counts and its position relative to downtown and to Lambeau Field, there's an excellent case to be made to rebuild the existing bridge pretty much as-is. The only Fox River crossings that have heavier traffic are I-43 and Hwy 172. There's still sufficient rail traffic that you wouldn't want to revert to an at-grade crossing - and it could very well increase in the next 50-75 years.

There's a case to simplify some of the ramps on each side, but with limited other options to cross the Fox River, and Mason St already built out for heavy traffic, it's hard for me to justify downgrading.

A SPUI interchange at Ashland Ave would simplify traffic flow there. One could perhaps see another SPUI at Monroe Ave (replacing the offramp to Madison St and perhaps the on-ramp from Jefferson St, but the proximity of Howe Elementary makes this tricky. I'd rather have the traffic on one street instead of three, though. I'm sure the surrounding neighborhood would also prefer that Jefferson St and Madison St lose their ramps and return to two-way traffic.

The main reason why the Mason St bridge should be built mostly in its current configuration is because the other two bridges are backed up frequently during boating season with the low clearances and year round due to trains.

Mason St is the only grade separated crossing that avoids a railroad crossing Downtown and has a high clearance so most boats can simply pass under without a bridge opening. However, I was stopped on that bridge once for a ship that was headed to Georgia Pacific.

[mgk920]

At that time there was also an active railroad crossing on he prior street crossing's east end.  the current bridge cleared all of that.

Mike