News:

Needing some php assistance with the script on the main AARoads site. Please contact Alex if you would like to help or provide advice!

Main Menu

Signed Routes/Roads that have pig-tail cross-overs

Started by Max Rockatansky, February 19, 2018, 11:54:49 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Max Rockatansky

This is something of an off-shoot of the "Signed Routes that complete a full circle" thread.   What Signed Routes/Roads out there cross over themselves in a 360 degree pig-tail configuration?   Two that come to mind are SD 87 in Custer State Park and Newfound Gap Road in Great Smoky Mountain National Park.

Edit:  To clarify I'm not talking Freeway ramps or ramps of any kind. 

SD 87

IMG_5866 by Max Rockatansky, on Flickr

Newfound Gap Road

IMG_7721 by Max Rockatansky, on Flickr


NE2

In before someone lists everything that takes a cloverleaf loop.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

Brandon

Quote from: NE2 on February 19, 2018, 12:34:21 PM
In before someone lists everything that takes a cloverleaf loop.

What, like I-80 and I-74 at the same interchange in Illinois?  :rofl:

/I'm sure that is not the OP's intent.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton, "Game of Thrones"

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg, "Monty Python's Life of Brian"

jp the roadgeek

NJ 495 in Weehawken at The Helix.  You're underground in the Lincoln Tunnel by the time you complete it
Interstates I've clinched: 97, 290 (MA), 291 (CT), 291 (MA), 293, 295 (DE-NJ-PA), 295 (RI-MA), 384, 391, 395 (CT-MA), 395 (MD), 495 (DE), 610 (LA), 684, 691, 695 (MD), 695 (NY), 795 (MD)

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: Brandon on February 19, 2018, 12:43:01 PM
Quote from: NE2 on February 19, 2018, 12:34:21 PM
In before someone lists everything that takes a cloverleaf loop.

What, like I-80 and I-74 at the same interchange in Illinois?  :rofl:

/I'm sure that is not the OP's intent.

And I thought about clarifying that on the original post too, I suppose that's what I get.  :rolleyes:  I went back and I added a note excluding ramps.  Granted if a Freeway used a ramp to run concurrent on another highway that would still count in view.

hotdogPi

As mentioned in the other thread, US 441 in North Carolina Tennessee.
Clinched, plus MA 286

Traveled, plus several state routes

Lowest untraveled: 25 (updated from 14)

New clinches: MA 286
New traveled: MA 14, MA 123

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: 1 on February 19, 2018, 12:51:43 PM
As mentioned in the other thread, US 441 in North Carolina.

That's Newfound Gap Road, techinically it isn't US 441 in Great Smoky Mountain National Park.

Mapmikey


mrcmc888

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 19, 2018, 12:52:47 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 19, 2018, 12:51:43 PM
As mentioned in the other thread, US 441 in North Carolina.

That's Newfound Gap Road, techinically it isn't US 441 in Great Smoky Mountain National Park.
They are the same thing.  US 441 follows Newfound Gap Road and gets labeled as such in official National Park maps.

hbelkins

This picture, granted, is about 18 years old, but...



Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Max Rockatansky

#10
Quote from: mrcmc888 on February 19, 2018, 01:21:08 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 19, 2018, 12:52:47 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 19, 2018, 12:51:43 PM
As mentioned in the other thread, US 441 in North Carolina.

That's Newfound Gap Road, techinically it isn't US 441 in Great Smoky Mountain National Park.
They are the same thing.  US 441 follows Newfound Gap Road and gets labeled as such in official National Park maps.

Its shown up to the park boundary on NPS.gov but not in the park:

https://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisit/upload/grsmmap2-2.pdf

Also none of the signage on Newfound Gap Road indicates US 441 within the park that I am aware of:

IMG_7708 by Max Rockatansky, on Flickr

Newfound Gap Road was completed in 1932 and is maintained by the NPS rather than NCDOT.  Typically the National Park Service does not recognize nor sign US Route or State Highways in National Park lands.  Similarly Yellowstone does not have a through route signed for US 20, 89, or 191.  Rockey Mountain National Park had signage directing travelers to US 34 but I've never seen a single reassurance shield:

IMG_7736 by Max Rockatansky, on Flickr

US 441 didn't even make it into the Carolinas until 1952:

https://www.usends.com/441.html

The North Carolina Highway Map presently doesn't display US 441:

https://xfer.services.ncdot.gov/imgdot/DOTStateTravelMap/2017_2018_NCDOT_Map_Front.pdf

So in conclusion, I'm not saying that US 441 was never signed in Great Smoky National Park because I've seen a 1956 map showing it along with TN 73.  But at present moment US 441 doesn't appear to be signed within Great Smoky Mountain National Park nor have I seen anything that suggests that Newfound Gap Road is definitely part of the route.  There are some exceptions to the signed route rule in National Parks like CA 146 and CA 190 but those roads are definitely maintained by Caltrans and have mileage paddles.  If someone has some additional information on the subject of US 441 I would be interested in drawing seeing it to draw a more final conclusion.

Edit:  As I was about to post this reply I just saw hbelkins photo with the "To" signage with TN 73 and US 441.  I also added a link to the 1956 North Carolina Highway Map in question.

https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~212130~5500240:Shell-Highway-Map-of-North-Carolina?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No&qvq=q:north%2Bcarolina%2Bhighway;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=3&trs=6

Brandon

The Detroit-Windsor Tunnel.  On the Detroit side, it does a full 360 to get down below the river.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton, "Game of Thrones"

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg, "Monty Python's Life of Brian"

Mapmikey


Shenandoah NP does sign US 33 and US 211 through the park although I don't believe the Park Service is responsible for their maintenance.  These routes are also signed from Skyline Drive.

US 441 was formally dropped from the park by AASHTO on Nov 6, 1970.

US 441 was still posted inside the park boundary as late as 1965.  Here is a NPS photo:





Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.