Reason for wider median on SH130 toll north of SH71

[thisdj78]

I've always been curious what the wider median on the SH130 toll is allocated for? I assume its for some future use?

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=30.239864,-97.61198&spn=0.040487,0.051413&gl=us&ui=maps&t=k&z=14

[lordsutch]

I've never been able to figure it out either. The only thing I can think of is that they planned to build a connection to the Houston-Austin TTC element there.

[thisdj78]

I've never been able to figure it out either. The only thing I can think of is that they planned to build a connection to the Houston-Austin TTC element there.

Could be. My original guess was space for a future rail station hub, given its proximity to the airport and directly east of downtown Austin.

[dfwtbear]

Maybe it is for a Service Plaza since it is also supposed to carry thru traffic all the way to the San Antonio area.

[NE2]

https://www.npms.phmsa.dot.gov/PublicViewer/
A Koch "non-HVL product" pipeline crosses under SH 130 right there, and there seems to be some sort of valve or pump station in the median.

[wxfree]

I read about this some time back.  The wide spot was for past use, as a staging area and concrete plant during the road's construction.  Since completion of the road, future use as a location for a service plaza is being considered.  Here's an article I dug up:
http://www.statesman.com/news/news/local/txdot-considers-toll-plaza-with-food-gas-in-texas-/nRp78/

[thisdj78]

I read about this some time back.  The wide spot was for past use, as a staging area and concrete plant during the road's construction.  Since completion of the road, future use as a location for a service plaza is being considered.  Here's an article I dug up:
http://www.statesman.com/news/news/local/txdot-considers-toll-plaza-with-food-gas-in-texas-/nRp78/

That would be good use. The only gas station along the toll that's easily accessible is at the SH21 exit north of Lockhart.

[ethanhopkin14]

130 has wide medians all the way through. The main reason is for future expansion. Texas finally figured out to build a highway for the traffic now, but leave room of the traffic of the future.

[NE2]

I can't say anything meaningful in response to that comment.

[roadman]

130 has wide medians all the way through. The main reason is for future expansion. Texas finally figured out to build a highway for the traffic now, but leave room of the traffic of the future.

Hardly a new practice.  In the 1950s and 1960s, the majority of states built their rural freeways with wide medians to accommodate adding additional lanes once the increase in traffic demand justified it without the need to acquire additional right of way.

[ethanhopkin14]

130 has wide medians all the way through. The main reason is for future expansion. Texas finally figured out to build a highway for the traffic now, but leave room of the traffic of the future.

Hardly a new practice.  In the 1950s and 1960s, the majority of states built their rural freeways with wide medians to accommodate adding additional lanes once the increase in traffic demand justified it without the need to acquire additional right of way.

Um.....in Texas, not so much. Since almost all of our rural freeways have service roads, and business flank said service roads as rural areas become less rural, the freeway becomes very constricted. That on top of the usual median only wide enough for a lane in each direction, adding more than a lane becomes difficult and requires service road, utility and business displacement on a grand scale, since TxDOT only widens its freeways when it is 20 years over due. Trust me, in the past, Texas only constructed the bare minimum when it came to its roads, leaving everyone to lament later. 

Edited to fix spelling errors

[ethanhopkin14]

To Explain:

Here is a typical rural Texas freeway bridge:

https://maps.google.com/?ll=32.424754,-99.562986&spn=0.002798,0.006099&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=32.424754,-99.562986&panoid=XfCoChzMiKLB5N55KzVYRw&cbp=12,85,,0,7.83

As you can see, not a lot of room in the median for expansion unless you rebuild the bridge completely.

Now a typical Texas rural freeway stretch with no intersection:

https://maps.google.com/?ll=31.603878,-96.155863&spn=0.005647,0.012199&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=31.604109,-96.155904&panoid=J3XTCIdVD8r7nxc-x0L3pw&cbp=12,349.47,,0,6.33

note that there is not much room outside the mainlanes for expansion without relocating the service road, and buying new ROW, and again only room in the median for maybe 1 lane in each direction.

Now a typical stretch of SH 130:

https://maps.google.com/?ll=30.286255,-97.576758&spn=0.005725,0.012199&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=30.286255,-97.576758&panoid=8nbJytE_hmTQPuUnMzJOWg&cbp=12,29.16,,0,5.89

The median is 3X wider and the service roads are setback way further.  And this isn't even the exaggeratedly wide section this post was originally referencing. 

[MaxConcrete]

Trust me, in the past, Texas only constructed the bare minimum when it came to its roads, leaving everyone to lament later. 

Yes, it is generally true that TxDOT constructed most of its rural interstates to minimum standards. What really exacerbated that problem was the fact that Texas was ahead of most other states in interstate highway construction, which meant TxDOT built most interstates with 1950s standards which had minimal row and median requirements. By the mid-1960s standards had improved and the interstates built to the improved standards are easy to notice when you drive them, for example sections of IH 45 from Buffalo to Fairfield, IH 30 in far east Texas and much of IH-10 west of San Antonio to the merge point with IH 20.

Other states which were slow to build interstates, especially Florida, benefited from the improved right-of-way requirements and tend to have much wider right-of-way.

That being said, there has been *substantial* right-of-way acquisition along IH 35 between Austin and Hillsboro to accommodate the expansion currently in progress, from 100 to 200 feet along much of the length.

[ethanhopkin14]

Trust me, in the past, Texas only constructed the bare minimum when it came to its roads, leaving everyone to lament later. 

Yes, it is generally true that TxDOT constructed most of its rural interstates to minimum standards. What really exacerbated that problem was the fact that Texas was ahead of most other states in interstate highway construction, which meant TxDOT built most interstates with 1950s standards which had minimal row and median requirements. By the mid-1960s standards had improved and the interstates built to the improved standards are easy to notice when you drive them, for example sections of IH 45 from Buffalo to Fairfield, IH 30 in far east Texas and much of IH-10 west of San Antonio to the merge point with IH 20.

Other states which were slow to build interstates, especially Florida, benefited from the improved right-of-way requirements and tend to have much wider right-of-way.

That being said, there has been *substantial* right-of-way acquisition along IH 35 between Austin and Hillsboro to accommodate the expansion currently in progress, from 100 to 200 feet along much of the length.

Yes, I have made the drive from Austin to Dallas a lot lately.  Again, it took massive relocation and ROW acquisition to expand the freeway there.  It would have taken a lot less if there wasn't so many tight ROW areas, like Troy...  Personally, I think I-35 from San Antonio to the Oklahoma State Line in Texas was a gigantic mistake that is still not through being a pain in the rump.

[BiggieJohn]

https://www.npms.phmsa.dot.gov/PublicViewer/
A Koch "non-HVL product" pipeline crosses under SH 130 right there, and there seems to be some sort of valve or pump station in the median.

I drive past that spot twice a day on my commute.  It's not a pump/valve station, it's just a big water tank and a bunch of storage containers and dumpsters used by the TX tollways safety crews to dump tires and road debris.  It only appeared about a year ago, has not been there since the original construction.

[DevalDragon]

Exactly. The original plans show a Service Plaza here. Unfortunately, TxDOT has been unable to find an operator / vendor so they have not built it yet.

Maybe it is for a Service Plaza since it is also supposed to carry thru traffic all the way to the San Antonio area.

[Brian556]

Um.....in Texas, not so much. Since almost all of our rural freeways have service roads, and business flank said service roads as rural areas become less rural, the freeway becomes very constricted. That on top of the usual median only wide enough for a lane in each direction, adding more than a lane becomes difficult and requires service road, utility and business displacement on a grand scale, since TxDOT only widens its freeways when it is 20 years over due. Trust me, in the past, Texas only constructed the bare minimum when it came to its roads, leaving everyone to lament later. 

Well Said.
The worst 50's freeway still around that I know of is I-35E in Denton.

Short Ramp
https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=33.203361,-97.150179&spn=0.000018,0.012521&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=33.203255,-97.14998&panoid=NqIIo18-8BFuIk2QQCpLTw&cbp=12,137.94,,0,0

Misaligned intersection
https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=33.204815,-97.152792&spn=0.000018,0.012521&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=33.204815,-97.152792&panoid=jB8Ly7CWvC6kLYPzLuCV6g&cbp=12,316.61,,0,0

Mountable curb shoulder with inlets:
https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=33.198318,-97.142847&spn=0.000018,0.012521&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=33.198318,-97.142847&panoid=bSBk8yegNEyk_b2GQ4miOg&cbp=12,320.08,,0,0