The Clearview thread

[ekt8750]

Zeffy, what are the RGB values for the shade of green you use in your signs? I believe it looks quite sharp.

It looks more like its from the default CMYK palate of Illustrator.

[Pink Jazz]

Looking at the samples at Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_Gothic

Is it me or does it appear that Series E and F have a slightly thicker stroke than Series B, C, and D?  Series E(m) isn't shown in the samples.  Can anyone confirm if E and F really have a thicker stroke than B, C, and D?

[wolfiefrick]

It looks more like its from the default CMYK palate of Illustrator.

He uses Inkscape.

[ekt8750]

Looking at the samples at Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_Gothic

Is it me or does it appear that Series E and F have a slightly thicker stroke than Series B, C, and D?  Series E(m) isn't shown in the samples.  Can anyone confirm if E and F really have a thicker stroke than B, C, and D?

B has a thicker stroke, C, D and E have regular strokes, Em and F have thicker strokes

[Zeffy]

Zeffy, what are the RGB values for the shade of green you use in your signs? I believe it looks quite sharp.

RGB values are 0, 150, 109. I have a slightly modified color palette I use for all my items now:

Green: 0, 150, 109
White: 247, 247, 247
Yellow: 255, 215, 0
Blue: 0, 78, 165
Black: 20, 20, 20
Red: 195, 33, 50
Brown: 140, 79, 39

[cl94]

As Clearview meets its demise, I found another municipality that uses it. Saratoga Springs, NY. There are A LOT of these.

[JoePCool14]

I'm late to the party, but oh well.

I didn't really see this coming to be honest, but I didn't see them pushing Clearview any further. Either way, I'm glad to see it will start to go away. This is mostly for the sake of DOTs like IDOT and MDOT, who replaced the hell out of perfectly good signs, wasting a lot of money, and making signs less visually appealing. However, ISTHA was getting better using it but the damage still remains. The only area I could expect proper FHWA signs from them up by North Suburbs are on I-90 construction. And finally, for the states like Wisconsin who didn't use it, they are just proving they are still so much better by not following something that was not tested properly.

[hbelkins]

...something that was not tested properly.

The interim approval WAS the test.

[roadfro]

...something that was not tested properly.

The interim approval WAS the test.

You could view it that way, but it wasn't the "real" test.

Usually there is a study (or a number of studies) sanctioned by FHWA before a traffic control device makes it to the level of MUTCD interim approval. It has been argued that the original Clearview testing done prior to the interim approval was later found to be flawed.

[shadyjay]

Are we looking at a combo Highway Gothic/Clearview sign here for Exit 35 on I-95 NB in CT?

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.206206,-73.1039122,3a,27.8y,88.1h,93.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWcgNQ2stKRb56se9bK5HfA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

The sign was recently (within the past year or so) modified... the lower half of the Exit 35 (left sign) used to just say "Bic Drive".  It's now overlayed with "Subway - Bic Drive" in a different font, though other signs further up have the more traditional highway gothic.  (For those that don't know, Subway world HQ is located just off Exit 35, and I believe Bic lighters is/was as well)

[noelbotevera]

Are we looking at a combo Highway Gothic/Clearview sign here for Exit 35 on I-95 NB in CT?

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.206206,-73.1039122,3a,27.8y,88.1h,93.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWcgNQ2stKRb56se9bK5HfA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

The sign was recently (within the past year or so) modified... the lower half of the Exit 35 (left sign) used to just say "Bic Drive".  It's now overlayed with "Subway - Bic Drive" in a different font, though other signs further up have the more traditional highway gothic.  (For those that don't know, Subway world HQ is located just off Exit 35, and I believe Bic lighters is/was as well)

I'm not a font person, but I believe that's Series B Highway Gothic. Clearview would be noticeably different.

[SignGeek101]

Are we looking at a combo Highway Gothic/Clearview sign here for Exit 35 on I-95 NB in CT?

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.206206,-73.1039122,3a,27.8y,88.1h,93.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWcgNQ2stKRb56se9bK5HfA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

The sign was recently (within the past year or so) modified... the lower half of the Exit 35 (left sign) used to just say "Bic Drive".  It's now overlayed with "Subway - Bic Drive" in a different font, though other signs further up have the more traditional highway gothic.  (For those that don't know, Subway world HQ is located just off Exit 35, and I believe Bic lighters is/was as well)

I'm not a font person, but I believe that's Series B Highway Gothic. Clearview would be noticeably different.

It's series D Highway Gothic. Same font, just different width. The road text (Scenic Drive) is in Series B here:


Whoop-Up Drive eastbound approaching Scenic Drive by Sign Geek, on Flickr

[JoePCool14]

Who on earth thought that EXIT ONLY tab looked okay?

[SignGeek101]

Who on earth thought that EXIT ONLY tab looked okay?

That whole sign is awful; from the Helvetica in the shields, to the incorrect shield (the 3 shield is the wrong shield), very small lettering 'TO' that probably can't be read from the average motorist, to the the compressed/stretched/messed up EXIT ONLY panel. I can't even tell if the EXIT ONLY is series C or D.

[PHLBOS]

Are we looking at a combo Highway Gothic/Clearview sign here for Exit 35 on I-95 NB in CT?

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.206206,-73.1039122,3a,27.8y,88.1h,93.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWcgNQ2stKRb56se9bK5HfA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

The sign was recently (within the past year or so) modified... the lower half of the Exit 35 (left sign) used to just say "Bic Drive".  It's now overlayed with "Subway - Bic Drive" in a different font, though other signs further up have the more traditional highway gothic.  (For those that don't know, Subway world HQ is located just off Exit 35, and I believe Bic lighters is/was as well)

I'm not a font person, but I believe that's Series B Highway Gothic. Clearview would be noticeably different.

It's series D Highway Gothic. Same font, just different width.

Looks like Georgia invaded Connecticut.  For a while, many of their BGS' sported Series D (or a variation of such) for control city/destination listings.

[peterj920]

I'm late to the party, but oh well.

I didn't really see this coming to be honest, but I didn't see them pushing Clearview any further. Either way, I'm glad to see it will start to go away. This is mostly for the sake of DOTs like IDOT and MDOT, who replaced the hell out of perfectly good signs, wasting a lot of money, and making signs less visually appealing. However, ISTHA was getting better using it but the damage still remains. The only area I could expect proper FHWA signs from them up by North Suburbs are on I-90 construction. And finally, for the states like Wisconsin who didn't use it, they are just proving they are still so much better by not following something that was not tested properly.

Wisconsin tested it on a small scale along the Madison Beltline, but that was it.  Within a few years when new construction projects along the route were done, the highway gothic returned.  WISDOT didn't see a benefit to it before the Feds came to that conclusion.  Otherwise, the only BGS outside of Madison in clearview was Eau Claire, and they were obsessive with that font.  They even used it on city bus stop signs.

[cpzilliacus]

N.Y. Times op-ed: Easy-Reading Road Signs Head to the Offramp

STARTING this week, a familiar face will begin to disappear from America's roadside signs. It's not particularly noticeable – certainly not as memorable as the goateed Colonel Sanders or smiling Big Boy or pigtailed Wendy pushing their fried chicken, hamburgers and French fries. Rather, it is a typeface named Clearview, which has graced many of our highway signs and directed us to our destinations since 2004, when it was granted interim approval by the Federal Highway Administration.

Clearview was intended as a big step forward in legibility over the national standard alphabet typefaces that have long dominated highway signs. But late last month the highway agency quietly announced in the Federal Register that henceforth only older typefaces specified in the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices may be used. The 30-day waiting period required after such announcements ended Wednesday.

[cl94]

Well, as of Wednesday, Clearview is dead in the United States. I'd write an obituary, but the Clearview I'm familiar with (NYSTA, PennDOT, ODOT) is so bad that I don't have anything good to say.

[MisterSG1]

I know the MTO played around with Clearview a bit, such as on the Red Hill Valley Parkway exit sign in Hamilton, but the City of Toronto has seemed to fully adopt it on their roads. Practically every overhead BGS and BBS on the Gardiner uses clearview now, they put those clearview signs up around the time the Gardiner construction started, which I believe was April 2014. Needless to say, I wonder if the City of Toronto will conform and stop putting new Clearview signs up if a new sign is needed.

Interestingly, GO Transit and Metrolinx seem to be very fond of Clearview, as they practically use it everywhere now on the GO system, here are some examples in Union Station since the York Concourse opened:











And now we have a real awful one below...



What is a BaySt, is that some sort of concert venue, I've never heard of a BaySt before. 

Even the GO Train diagram, such as this one in any GO Train coach is in clearview:



As an aside....anyone who knows Toronto knows how awfully inaccurate this diagram is, then again it's supposed to show the lines rather than be geographically correct. This diagram would lead us to believe that Bloor St and York University are at the same distance north from downtown.  Not to mention Oriole station, which is at Leslie and the 401 is south of Bloor and York University stations.


Lastly, something road related, I took this last pic while on the subway this week, showing a view of the NB Allen at the Hwy 401 exit, it looks really nice in my opinion and shows how much better Clearview is in my opinion:

[cl94]

MTO had a few signs in Southern Ontario and many have been replaced. There were a few signs on 406 that are now gone as well as the aforementioned signs on the QEW.

I don't expect Toronto to stop installing Clearview. Many parts of Canada have adopted Clearview as the official font and I don't expect a FHWA ruling in the US to change that.

[J N Winkler]

Henry Petroski's Clearview obituary in the New York Times (part of which C.P. posted above) fits in the media pattern already established by CityLab of failing to describe what went wrong with the implementation of Clearview.  I am tempted to write a think piece to try to present a full and honest account of the view from the trenches.

[Brandon]

Henry Petroski's Clearview obituary in the New York Times (part of which C.P. posted above) fits in the media pattern already established by CityLab of failing to describe what went wrong with the implementation of Clearview.  I am tempted to write a think piece to try to present a full and honest account of the view from the trenches.

Please do.  I'm sick of these op-eds that mourn Clearview while failing to understand its shortcomings, and how it was initially marketed.

[formulanone]

Henry Petroski's Clearview obituary in the New York Times (part of which C.P. posted above) fits in the media pattern already established by CityLab of failing to describe what went wrong with the implementation of Clearview.  I am tempted to write a think piece to try to present a full and honest account of the view from the trenches.

Please do.  I'm sick of these op-eds that mourn Clearview while failing to understand its shortcomings, and how it was initially marketed.

"Looking at text one foot from my face proves Clearview is better." - New York Times

[JMAN_WiS&S]

I'm late to the party, but oh well.

I didn't really see this coming to be honest, but I didn't see them pushing Clearview any further. Either way, I'm glad to see it will start to go away. This is mostly for the sake of DOTs like IDOT and MDOT, who replaced the hell out of perfectly good signs, wasting a lot of money, and making signs less visually appealing. However, ISTHA was getting better using it but the damage still remains. The only area I could expect proper FHWA signs from them up by North Suburbs are on I-90 construction. And finally, for the states like Wisconsin who didn't use it, they are just proving they are still so much better by not following something that was not tested properly.

Wisconsin tested it on a small scale along the Madison Beltline, but that was it.  Within a few years when new construction projects along the route were done, the highway gothic returned.  WISDOT didn't see a benefit to it before the Feds came to that conclusion.  Otherwise, the only BGS outside of Madison in clearview was Eau Claire, and they were obsessive with that font.  They even used it on city bus stop signs.

That's interesting! I live in Eau Claire and I didn't even notice that. Granted, I've never really seen much clearview so I don't notice the difference without looking online.

[machias]

Henry Petroski's Clearview obituary in the New York Times (part of which C.P. posted above) fits in the media pattern already established by CityLab of failing to describe what went wrong with the implementation of Clearview.  I am tempted to write a think piece to try to present a full and honest account of the view from the trenches.

Please do.  I'm sick of these op-eds that mourn Clearview while failing to understand its shortcomings, and how it was initially marketed.

"Looking at text one foot from my face proves Clearview is better." - New York Times

It's part of the American societal thinking that anything new and different is much better than anything that is considered old, outdated and established. Change for the sake of change can never be wrong, right?