The Clearview thread

[jakeroot]

Henry Petroski's Clearview obituary in the New York Times (part of which C.P. posted above) fits in the media pattern already established by CityLab of failing to describe what went wrong with the implementation of Clearview.  I am tempted to write a think piece to try to present a full and honest account of the view from the trenches.

Please do.  I'm sick of these op-eds that mourn Clearview while failing to understand its shortcomings, and how it was initially marketed.

"Looking at text one foot from my face proves Clearview is better." - New York Times

It's part of the American societal thinking that anything new and different is much better than anything that is considered old, outdated and established. Change for the sake of change can never be wrong, right?

Dropping millions of dollars into something is enough to convince most people that the new product is better than the old product. I'm still not entirely convinced that the Clearview research was a total loss.

[cl94]

Henry Petroski's Clearview obituary in the New York Times (part of which C.P. posted above) fits in the media pattern already established by CityLab of failing to describe what went wrong with the implementation of Clearview.  I am tempted to write a think piece to try to present a full and honest account of the view from the trenches.

Please do.  I'm sick of these op-eds that mourn Clearview while failing to understand its shortcomings, and how it was initially marketed.

"Looking at text one foot from my face proves Clearview is better." - New York Times

It's part of the American societal thinking that anything new and different is much better than anything that is considered old, outdated and established. Change for the sake of change can never be wrong, right?

Dropping millions of dollars into something is enough to convince most people that the new product is better than the old product. I'm still not entirely convinced that the Clearview research was a total loss.

I don't think it was. What it did show is that older people can have trouble with E(M) and that some changes are needed to assist them. I could certainly see applications for the font beyond road signs because of that.

[SignGeek101]

Has/did the FHWA done any research into Series EEM before approving Clearview (or even now?) Surely there should be some kind of trial test or something.

[authenticroadgeek]

(Chris Bessert, michiganhighways.org)

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEW!

[wxfree]

Long Live Clearview!

[lordsutch]

Even the GO Train diagram, such as this one in any GO Train coach is in clearview:

That's not Clearview; it's FF Meta (or its kissing cousin from the same designer, Fira Sans).

[MisterSG1]

Even the GO Train diagram, such as this one in any GO Train coach is in clearview:

That's not Clearview; it's FF Meta (or its kissing cousin from the same designer, Fira Sans).

Yeah, I thought that one was Clearview, but looking at some of the letters, I see that it is not. But those signs inside Union Station, I'm fairly well certain that is clearview.

MTO had a few signs in Southern Ontario and many have been replaced. There were a few signs on 406 that are now gone as well as the aforementioned signs on the QEW.

I don't expect Toronto to stop installing Clearview. Many parts of Canada have adopted Clearview as the official font and I don't expect a FHWA ruling in the US to change that.

I was in Niagara Region today, and those signs on the Toronto bound QEW are in fact still there, such as the Red Hill Valley Parkway exit only sign, as well as the diagrammatical sign before reaching the 407/403 West interchange. They are still kicking and I don't expect them to be changed anytime soon.

[cpzilliacus]

It's part of the American societal thinking that anything new and different is much better than anything that is considered old, outdated and established. Change for the sake of change can never be wrong, right?

Then explain the inability of the United States to fully adopt the SI instead of our ancient units of measure based on the time when the 13 colonies were part of the British Empire.

[jakeroot]

It's part of the American societal thinking that anything new and different is much better than anything that is considered old, outdated and established. Change for the sake of change can never be wrong, right?

I think that's true for personal consumerism, but not so much so when the money being spent is from a public coffer: at that point, whatever's cheapest will do.

[Brandon]

It's part of the American societal thinking that anything new and different is much better than anything that is considered old, outdated and established. Change for the sake of change can never be wrong, right?

Then explain the inability of the United States to fully adopt the SI instead of our ancient units of measure based on the time when the 13 colonies were part of the British Empire.

Not so strange when you explain the inability of the UK to do so, Belize, even Canada.  Canada may have officially adopted it, but the average Canadian uses a mixture in the everyday, and the building trades never stopped using Imperial measures.  There are lots of places that have halfheartedly adopted SI, including Japan, where the building trades, again, use local measures exclusively.  There really is no compelling reason to adopt SI in the everyday.

[riiga]

There really is no compelling reason to adopt SI in the everyday.

I'd contest that, but this is not the right thread for it.

[authenticroadgeek]

We're leaving out an option, guys.
http://cdn-users2.imagechef.com/photos/160228/uimg2af4c93ae96d1106.jpg
Let's just say Peppatown is in serious need of some road signs.With love, from authenticroadgeek.

[CrystalWalrein]

Even the GO Train diagram, such as this one in any GO Train coach is in clearview:

That's not Clearview; it's FF Meta (or its kissing cousin from the same designer, Fira Sans).

No, that is Clearview. The M in FF Meta is flared and the middle angle goes almost all the way down.

[JoePCool14]

We're leaving out an option, guys.
http://cdn-users2.imagechef.com/photos/160228/uimg2af4c93ae96d1106.jpg
Let's just say Peppatown is in serious need of some road signs.With love, from authenticroadgeek.

[MisterSG1]

Even the GO Train diagram, such as this one in any GO Train coach is in clearview:

That's not Clearview; it's FF Meta (or its kissing cousin from the same designer, Fira Sans).

No, that is Clearview. The M in FF Meta is flared and the middle angle goes almost all the way down.

Actually it isn't, because I looked closely at the letters while on the train ride home on Friday, (well I've taken it so many times, what else is there to do) and it appears that the lowercase a looks different from a Clearview lowercase a. The lowercase a in this font's tail just goes straight down, a Clearview lowercase a almost has like a diagonal cross in it's tail, if that's the best way to explain it.

I tend to believe if I see that lowercase l with the tail, then it's clearview, but that's obviously not the case here.

[Pink Jazz]

I actually wonder if VDOT will consider Enhanced E Modified in the future if approved.  VDOT was apparently interested when they updated their Clearview rules in 2013.

[PHLBOS]

During a recent trip to Massachusetts (from Greater Philadelphia) this past weekend, I noticed that one of the recent NJ Clearview ground-mounted BGS for Exit 56 along I-295 North was replaced with a match in kind one in Highway Gothic.  No other BGS' were replaced.  I'm assuming that this was an-accident related replacement.

[paulthemapguy]

DuPage County, Illinois, even uses Clearview on their bathroom signs!!

[SignGeek101]

DuPage County, Illinois, even uses Clearview on their bathroom signs!!

Reminds me of the Clearview I saw last weekend. Installed by the city in some public downtown tunnels, and a mall. I like the look honestly.

[wxfree]

TxDOT's latest highway designs, for June contracts, still include Clearview signs.  I don't know when the plans were drawn or approved or what else may be involved.  The revisions for the May plans are online, and don't seem to include relevant changes.  Unless it's changed by some other means, it looks like new Clearview signs may be going up for another year or two as these projects get completed.

[cl94]

No idea if NYSTA has made the switch back yet, as their sign plans have had FHWA for well over a year and every sign installed with those plans was Clearview. No idea if the new (Fall 2015) FHWA signs along I-190 in Buffalo were a one-off or the new NYSTA standard. I'm hoping the latter, as they're quite beautiful, but I'm not holding my breath.

[kalvado]

Not so strange when you explain the inability of the UK to do so, Belize, even Canada.  Canada may have officially adopted it, but the average Canadian uses a mixture in the everyday, and the building trades never stopped using Imperial measures.  There are lots of places that have halfheartedly adopted SI, including Japan, where the building trades, again, use local measures exclusively.  There really is no compelling reason to adopt SI in the everyday.

I may be late for the party.. But there are 3 countries still officially using imperial system: USA, Liberia and Myanmar (formerly Burma, metrication in progress). Canada is officially metric, with imperial system being phased out of everyday use. You may notice that Canadian folks here quote speeds in km/h, not MPH; and price gas per liter, not per gallon.

[cl94]

Not so strange when you explain the inability of the UK to do so, Belize, even Canada.  Canada may have officially adopted it, but the average Canadian uses a mixture in the everyday, and the building trades never stopped using Imperial measures.  There are lots of places that have halfheartedly adopted SI, including Japan, where the building trades, again, use local measures exclusively.  There really is no compelling reason to adopt SI in the everyday.

I may be late for the party.. But there are 3 countries still officially using imperial system: USA, Liberia and Myanmar (formerly Burma, metrication in progress). Canada is officially metric, with imperial system being phased out of everyday use. You may notice that Canadian folks here quote speeds in km/h, not MPH; and price gas per liter, not per gallon.

That's only because everything is posted in km/h, Canadian cars show km/h more prominently, and gas is sold in $/liter. From spending quite a bit of time in Canada, Imperial is still used for quite a bit, notably cooking (temperatures) and height (at amusement parks, for example). Quite a bit that isn't noticeable on the forums is used in daily life, at least in Ontario. Canadian radio has ads for stuff in Imperial, pizza sizes are listed in inches, weight of some things is in pounds (and I don't just mean the McDonald's Quarter Pounder).

Britain might not "officially" use Imperial, but speed limits are in MPH, for example.

[kalvado]

Imperial is still used for quite a bit

I don't think anyone in the world (short of scientific papers - but there may be some exceptions as well) is clear cut metric or non-metric. Electric heaters in US are rated in watts, not BTU/hour, for example.
Coming closer to the specialty of this forum - most car manufacturers switched to all-metric hardware, Harley-Davidson being one of lase exceptions (not exactly car, but well). Some things slowly changing, some are stuck for centuries to come (electric connectors and marine navigation - which is still "driving" on left.

Another interesting example of metrication (again not strictly metrication - but worldwide issue) is switch to lumens for light bulbs. Most old farts like me are used to 40/60/75 watts, but need to switch to 450/800/110 lm. Interestingly enough, I did see LED headlights and LED headlight replacement bulbs - but I don't remember them rated in lumens, I may stop by at Pep boys to double check.

[thenetwork]

The Canadian Football League is still in yards as well