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Regional Boards => Southeast => Topic started by: Grzrd on November 27, 2010, 06:15:29 PM

Title: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on November 27, 2010, 06:15:29 PM
Looks like there may be some early-stage viewing opportunities if anyone is passing through the area during holiday travels: http://www.nwtntoday.com/news.php?viewStory=49020

Quote
I-69 is beginning to take shape through Obion County and is attracting considerable attention among area residents.
Overpasses for the interstate are rising around Union City and construction crews have cut off traffic to certain areas as they work on building up the interstate route around Union City.
Most noticeably, overpasses are beginning to take shape on Brevard Road, just west of the Union City Goodyear plant, and a second intersection on West Main Street.
Erwin White, I-69 project manager for northwest Tennessee, told The Messenger Monday that preliminary work is on schedule through this area for the interstate. In a telephone interview from his Jackson office, White said site preparation work is being done for the interstate project's route through Obion County. He explained that Stage I construction work includes designing the structures (interchanges) and earthwork on the interstate.
It is that stage of the project that is beginning to change the landscape around Union City with dump trucks and heavy construction equipment carving out overpasses ...
For the Union City area, there are actually five interchanges planned along the I-69 route. The first interchange will be at Mayberry Road northeast of Union City and just south of a proposed weigh station and rest area.
Other proposed interchanges around Union City include one on State Route 21 (Jordan Highway) just north of Union City, the interchange on Brevard Road, an interchange on State Route 5 (West Main Street), an interchange on State Route 184 (East Old Troy Road just east of Belle Aire Subdivision), and a final interchange on West Reelfoot Avenue.
The West Reelfoot Avenue interchange will reconnect new construction of I-69 into the existing Highway 51 South to Troy. There are three interchanges planned for the Troy area, with the interstate veering due southeast of Highway 51 until it reconnects with Highway 51 just south of Troy. The proposed interchanges in Troy are located at State Route 21 just east of the city, an interchange at Troy-Polk Station Road and a final interchange south of town reconnecting with Highway 51 ...
Generally speaking, White said it costs about $6 million to $10 million per mile to build an interstate and interchanges cost an estimated $3 million to $5 million apiece to build.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on May 26, 2011, 10:02:56 AM
I deleted "Obion County Construction Progress" from thread title because new three-year TIP does not include any new non-I-269 projects.  Here is an article from Dyersburg newspaper emphasizing the money crunch regarding I-69:

http://www.stategazette.com/story/1731050.html

Quote
The biggest obstacle to completing the superhighway known as I-69 is money. That was the consensus among speakers at a Mid-Continent Highway Coalition (I-69) meeting last week at the Dyersburg/Dyer County Chamber of Commerce ... John Ford of Ford Construction and vice president of transportation for the Dyersburg/Dyer County Chamber of Commerce said the state is hurting when it comes to receiving federal funding for projects and especially for I-69 ... His company is working on a 4-mile section of I-69 in Obion County at the cost of $32 million. Ford said Ford Construction is just one of 25 projects in the country involved in completing I-69 and one of only five in the state ... He stated the state of Tennessee did not include any I-69 jobs in the northern part of the state in their three-year road plan ... "The only I-69 funding in the three-year road plan going forward is the paving of two sections they have already built in Shelby County, and then I think it's about 2.3 miles at the very bottom section," said Ford ... Ford added the work was continuing on right-of-ways and engineering in the state ... "A lot of that has already been funded," said Ford ... According to Ford, the Tennessee Department of Transportation lets contracts for around $700 million-$800 million, which is about 2 percent of federal transportation funding. Ford said there is a proposal to cut the state's funding by 35 percent, which would be a cut of $281 million ... "I'm just saying, from our perspective there needs to be a lot of conversation with the governor and the commissioner of transportation," said Ford ... He noted the need for money to be specifically designated for I-69 ... Congressman Stephen Fincher was at the meeting and said the country is at a financial crossroads and infrastructure needs more attention paid to it ... "We take our infrastructure for granted," said Fincher. "And until the American public one day goes out in their car and knocks the front end from under the car, because there are potholes in the road as big as this room, I'm afraid we are not going to deal with it." ... "I just cannot propose a gas tax in this environment," said Fincher ... Fincher stated he and his colleagues were fighting to get a highway bill out ... Mid-Continent Highway Coalition Vice President Bill Revell gave an overall report on the construction of I-69 ... The whole construction of I-69 is divided into 32 sections of independent utilities ... "The reason they did that is because if they can't complete the whole highway someday, whatever they do complete the money won't be thrown away," said Revell, giving a comparison of Great River Road off of I-155 ... He added I-69 is very important due to the trade partners to the north and south, meaning Canada and Mexico. "It's critical we get this highway built," said Revell.

It will be interesting to see what alternatives will be presented for Tennessee in the upcoming multi-state Innovative Financing Study for I-69.  I hope AHTD will soon finalize contract with the consultant.  Here is link to Financing Study thread:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=2920.0
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: rte66man on May 26, 2011, 04:35:42 PM
<quote>
"The reason they did that is because if they can't complete the whole highway someday, whatever they do complete the money won't be thrown away," said Revell, giving a comparison of Great River Road off of I-155 ...
</quote>

What exactly is the "Great River Road" off I-155 and why was it a waste?

rte66man
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: NE2 on May 26, 2011, 05:20:04 PM
Probably SR 181, which seems to have been built to higher standards up to the abrupt end at SR 88.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on August 28, 2011, 02:17:08 PM
Although short on specifics, this August 10 article suggests that I-69 construction around Union City is ahead of schedule:
http://www.nwtntoday.com/news.php?viewStory=59315

Quote
State Commissioner of Transportation John Schroer got a first-hand look Tuesday at progress being made on I-69 in Obion County. Schroer and about 30 other state and local officials stopped on top of the Brevard Road overpass as part of the TDOT Projects Tour 2011 ... Schroer told the group that work on the Obion County segment of I-69 represents the first "pure"  segment of the new interstate under construction in Tennessee. Work on the I-69 route through Obion County is ahead of schedule, according to Erwin White with the TDOT office in Jackson. On Tuesday, Schroer stressed the importance of the interstate project for Tennessee as well as the entire country ... Work on the I-69 route through Obion County is being done in "segments."  Construction is ahead of schedule in Obion County as the interstate route is beginning to take shape around Union City. In fact, during Tuesday's briefing on Brevard Road, several concrete mixer trucks rumbled by and drowned out some the comments made about I-69. "It is a priority of mine to see firsthand the investments we are making in transportation projects across the state,"  Schroer said. "These "˜viewing tours' will also give us the opportunity to share valuable information about these projects with our elected officials and engage the public along the way.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on October 05, 2011, 01:50:22 PM
This article indicates that the grading projects around Union City should be completed in early summer 2012 and that some projects on I-69/I-240 in Memphis should be let later this year:
http://www.nwtntoday.com/news.php?viewStory=61719

Quote
Construction on Interstate-69 is now under way in the Union City/Obion County area and is expected to be completed next year, according to Bill Revell, Tennessee chairman (and vice-president) of the Interstate-69 Coalition.
"Construction is expected to be completed on the four-mile SIU [Section of Independent Utility] by early summer 2012, with the exception of paving,"  says Revell. "The pavement will not be applied to the SIU once it's completed because other sections need to be built first."
Shelby County is also currently making construction strides on its future I-69 Corridors.
In Shelby County, I-269, a western, semi-circular subsection of I-69, encompasses former U.S. Highway 385. The future I-269 subsection on the corridor is almost completed between Millington and Collierville. According to Revell, it is expected to be fully constructed by 2013.
The I-69 corridor will run west of U.S. Highway 51 and will be broken into three sections. It will then join Interstate-240, also a Future I-69 Corridor, and will run directly through Memphis, merging into Interstate-55 at Hernando, Mississippi. The route then runs east to Tunica, Mississippi. This particular section of I-69, running from Hernando to Tunica, is complete.
I-240 is currently in the process of acquiring right of way. I-69 construction lettings on I-240 are to begin later this year ...
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: codyg1985 on October 05, 2011, 04:22:23 PM
QuoteIn Shelby County, I-269, a western, semi-circular subsection of I-69, encompasses former U.S. Highway 385.

That describes a whole lot of fail right there.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: froggie on October 05, 2011, 05:13:13 PM
That's by far not the only fail in the article.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: BamaZeus on October 06, 2011, 11:19:06 AM
I like where I-69 runs east to Tunica from Hernando :)
Title: I-69 in TN SIU 8 (Millington to Dyersburg) Update
Post by: Grzrd on October 13, 2011, 10:23:36 PM
I recently received an email update from Steve Chipman, Project Manager responsible for SIU 8, regarding progress on the SIU 8 FEIS.  Remarkably, an approximate 500 foot change in the alignment is anticipated to result in an approximate nine month delay in the issuance of a ROD for SIU 8. The current website estimate of 4th quarter 2011 issuance of FEIS can be found here:

http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/i69/segment8/status.htm:

Quote
From Millington to Dyersburg, Tennessee in Shelby, Tipton, Lauderdale, and Dyer Counties.
CURRENT PROJECT EVENTS:

2011:
2nd Qtr: The Environmental Consultant submits the Final EIS to TDOT for review and approval.
3rd Qtr:  TDOT submits the Final EIS to Federal Highway Administration for review and approval.
4th Qtr: Receive approval on the Final EIS from the Federal Highway Administration.

Pertinent portion of Mr. Chipman's response (I assume his references to "FEDS" were intended to be "FEIS"):

Quote
The completion date for the final EIS is in the process of being adjusted to reflect the completion of additional technical studies along the north end of the corridor near Dyersburg.  In the second quarter of 2010, a property owner claimed in a letter to the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) that the corridor for I-69, SIU 8, would cross a landfill located in the north end near Dyersburg.  The information was passed on to us to investigate.  In the third quarter of 2010 we partnered with the Tennessee Department of Environment and Conservation on completing an Environmental Site Assessment of the area in questioned.  The information given to us indicated the potential landfill site would have been in operation in the early 1970's.  This was before any permit or reporting was required so the likely hood of finding any records on the landfill was slim to none.

The study was completed in the first quarter of 2011 and revealed the area was used for a landfill and the soil is not suitable for the construction of a highway .  Our next step was to look at moving the alignment far enough within the study area to avoid crossing the landfill area.  In the second quarter of 2011 it was determined that a shift in the alignment approximately 500 ft. east would avoid the landfill. Now we are in the process of completing technical studies for the line shift and incorporating the results into the FEDS.

At this time we anticipate the FEDS will be completed as follows;

       First quarter of 2012, the FEDS will be completed and submitted to TDOT for approval.
      Second quarter of 2012, the FEDS will be submitted to FHWA for approval.
      Third quarter of 2012, the record of decision signed.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: codyg1985 on November 28, 2011, 07:58:57 AM
I drove in NW Tennessee yesterday to get some counties and to look along US 51 at what it would take to upgrade to I-69. Some observations:

- I-155 currently ends at US 412 east in Dyersburg. However, the freeway continues along US 51 north through the remainder of Dyer County into Obion County, complete with a speed limit of 70. This makes me wonder if I-155 was indeed supposed to be part of something bigger, like a routing of I-24 which was discussed in another thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=2895.0).
- At Troy, TN, the freeway quickly ends and the speed limit drops accordingly as you transition onto a four-lane divided arterial.
- Between Troy, TN and Union City, TN US 51 remains a four-lane divided highway with at-grade intersections. A typical TN four-lane setup here.
- At Union City there is a bypass for US 51, but the bypass has a speed limit of 55 mph with at-grade intersections. I don't know where the construction for I-69 was in this area; I suspect it was a few miles to the north of the bypass from what I could tell. I didn't have time to investigate to see where the construction was.
- NE of Union City, US 51 resumes as a 70 mph freeway at it's interchange with TN 22 east. This setup ends just short of US 45E where what I suspect is Old US 51 (TN 214, Ken-Tenn Hwy) rejoins the alignment. It split off at Union City at the interchange with TN 22 east.

So between Dyersburg and Fulton, it doesn't seem like it would take much to upgrade to interstate standards. A bypass of Troy and Union City would all but do it. What I am curious about is how the TN section of I-69 will tie into the Purchase Pkwy with the complication of having the existing interchange with US 45E.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: NE2 on November 28, 2011, 08:41:41 AM
Quote from: codyg1985 on November 28, 2011, 07:58:57 AM
- I-155 currently ends at US 412 east in Dyersburg. However, the freeway continues along US 51 north through the remainder of Dyer County into Obion County, complete with a speed limit of 70. This makes me wonder if I-155 was indeed supposed to be part of something bigger, like a routing of I-24 which was discussed in another thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=2895.0).
"The only difference between the governors' proposal and the approved corridor is that the corridor eliminates 41 miles of interstate highway to link Dyersburg and Jackson, Tenn., a segment of the governors' Jackson-to-Hayti compromise highway." http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=3-wrAAAAIBAJ&sjid=bmcFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1856,3598762&dq=interstate+24+dyersburg&hl=en

This is back in 1964, but Kurumi says I-155 construction didn't begin until the early 1970s.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: codyg1985 on November 28, 2011, 08:57:39 AM
^ It appeared that the overpasses along US 51 northeast of US 412 were built around the same time as those along I-155.

I also drove US 412 between Jackson and Dyersburg, and it somewhere between a arterial and a freeway. Speed limit is 65 with many interchanges, but these interchanges are tight interchanges with secondary state routes, like this interchange: http://g.co/maps/qgyvr

US 412 is a full freeway around the east side of Dyersburg from TN 104 north to I-155.

It is also interesting to me that there are To I-40 signs along US 51 and I-155 going in either direction around the US 412 east interchange.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on December 01, 2011, 11:03:28 AM
Here's a link to an interesting photo from last month's Kentucky I-69 signage ceremony:  Tennessee and I-69 Coalition officials posing with a "Tennessee" I-69 shield:
http://www.stategazette.com/story/1790054/photo/1584026.html

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FHxhP4.jpg&hash=480d44748ccdcbe7d39e63a27ead54954abd0fac)

I wonder how long it will be before one actually appears in the field?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: codyg1985 on December 01, 2011, 11:14:51 AM
^ I would be very surprised to see that in the field. Still, we can hope.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: agentsteel53 on December 01, 2011, 11:23:56 AM
very nice.

if Tennessee DOT doesn't make one appear in the field, someone else will.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on December 01, 2011, 03:30:22 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on December 01, 2011, 11:03:28 AM
Here's a link to an interesting photo from last month's Kentucky I-69 signage ceremony:  Tennessee and I-69 Coalition officials posing with a "Tennessee" I-69 shield:
http://www.stategazette.com/story/1790054/photo/1584026.html

I wonder how long it will be before one actually appears in the field?

That Schorer guy looks a lot like Kentucky's governor. My first thought upon seeing that picture was, "WTF is that idiot doing holding a state-named shield from Tennessee when we don't even have them in Kentucky?"
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: CanesFan27 on December 01, 2011, 04:57:20 PM
Cody,

The Future I-69 construction in Union City runs North and west of the current bypass...it is also just north of the giant Goodyear Plant you may have seen.

I went through there with Billy a year ago, when construction was just beginning.

http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2010/12/western-tennesseekentucky-roadtrip.html
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: ARMOURERERIC on December 02, 2011, 09:21:47 PM
I keep looking for ariel imagery progress.  from around Union City, but have had no luck thus far
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: mgk920 on December 02, 2011, 11:20:14 PM
Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on December 02, 2011, 09:21:47 PM
I keep looking for ariel imagery progress.  from around Union City, but have had no luck thus far

Mapquest shows the cleared ROW and some early stages of construction:

http://mapq.st/uhQhQ5

:nod:

Mike
Title: Future I-69 in Memphis
Post by: Grzrd on December 25, 2011, 05:24:46 PM
As part of its analysis, the June 2011 Southern Gateway Purpose and Need and Study Area Package (http://www.southerngatewayproject.com/library/CP-1%20Package%20with%20Agency%20Lts%20and%20Responses.pdf) has information regarding anticipated freeway construction in Memphis through 2030.

In regard to I-69, three new terrain projects are mentioned:

Project #2: Construct 4.8 miles of new freeway from south of TN 385 to the Tipton/Shelby county line (2020);

Project #12: Construct new freeway from TN 300 to the Shelby/Tipton county line (2020); and

Project #14: Construct new freeway for I-269 from I-69 to US 51 (2030).

I was a little surprised that construction of the final segment of I-269 is scheduled so far in the future; however, I guess it does make sense to have construction of the I-69/I-269 interchange be the final piece of the I-69 Corridor puzzle in the Memphis area.

The above information can be found at Figure 8: Planned and Programmed Freeway Capacity Projects (page 26 of document; page 30/112 of pdf), and Table 6: Active Projects Along Major Facilities in the Study Area (page 42 of document; page 46/112 of pdf).
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on January 05, 2012, 02:50:49 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on December 02, 2011, 11:20:14 PM
Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on December 02, 2011, 09:21:47 PM
I keep looking for ariel imagery progress.  from around Union City, but have had no luck thus far
Mapquest shows the cleared ROW and some early stages of construction:
http://mapq.st/uhQhQ5
:nod:
Mike
Looks like Bing has updated their aerial view:
http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=36.455897975537205~-89.06645965576173&lvl=14&dir=0&sty=h&where1=Union%20City%2C%20TN&form=LMLTCC

EDIT

Even though there are currently no future funds allocated for non-I-269 I-69 Corridor projects in Tennessee,the Tennessee Department of Economic And Community Development is at least paying lip service to the importance of I-69 to NW Tennessee and that TDOT will work to complete it (page 8/13 of pdf):
http://www.tn.gov/ecd/pdf/Regiional_Strategic_Plans/Northwest.pdf

Quote
...ECD staff and regional partners will develop long-term strategies for leveraging the completion of
several large projects including the Port of Cates Landing, I-69, the Haywood County megasite and the certification of foreign trade zones in the region ... TDOT will work to streamline the Industrial Access Program and to complete I-69, as well as to plan and complete Highway 641 to Kentucky ...
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: rickmastfan67 on January 10, 2012, 02:52:54 AM
Quote from: Grzrd on January 05, 2012, 02:50:49 PM
Looks like Bing has updated their aerial view:
http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=36.455897975537205~-89.06645965576173&lvl=14&dir=0&sty=h&where1=Union%20City%2C%20TN&form=LMLTCC

And because you can trace Bing for OSM, here's the new alignment in OSM. ;)
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=36.4449&lon=-89.057&zoom=14&layers=M
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on January 16, 2012, 04:31:05 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on December 25, 2011, 05:24:46 PM
As part of its analysis, the June 2011 Southern Gateway Purpose and Need and Study Area Package (http://www.southerngatewayproject.com/library/CP-1%20Package%20with%20Agency%20Lts%20and%20Responses.pdf) has information regarding anticipated freeway construction in Memphis through 2030.
In regard to I-69, three new terrain projects are mentioned:
Project #2: Construct 4.8 miles of new freeway from south of TN 385 to the Tipton/Shelby county line (2020);
Project #12: Construct new freeway from TN 300 to the Shelby/Tipton county line (2020); and
Project #14: Construct new freeway for I-269 from I-69 to US 51 (2030).
Memphis MPO has posted its Direction 2040 Long Term Transportation Plan on the Direction 2040 website.  It looks like the new thought is to have all of I-69 from TN 300 to the Tipton County line, and I-269 from the interchange to TN 385, completed by 2020:
http://direction2040.com/library/Draft_Chapter_08%20(Implementation%20Plan).pdf

A map of the proposed highway transportation projects is on page 8-37 of the document and page 39/53 of the pdf, and the page describing the I-69 projects is on page 8-13 of the document and page 15/53 of the pdf.

New terrain I-69 from TN 300 to TN 385 is 12.83 miles in length and is projected to cost $99,031,574.
New terrain I-69 from east (should that be west?) of US 51 near Millington to the Tipton County line is 4.80 miles in length and projected to cost $37,058,429.
The new terrain I-269 section is included on the map as a 2020 project and I assume it is included in TN 300 to TN 385 I-69 project (which seems to be the case in this TDOT map: http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/i69/segment9/maps/segment_map.pdf).

Now whether their financial assumptions are accurate enough to allow this to happen is another story altogether ...
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on January 18, 2012, 06:13:53 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on October 13, 2011, 10:23:36 PM
I recently received an email update from Steve Chipman, Project Manager responsible for SIU 8, regarding progress on the SIU 8 FEIS.
At this time we anticipate the FEDS will be completed as follows;
     First quarter of 2012, the FEDS will be completed and submitted to TDOT for approval.
     Second quarter of 2012, the FEDS will be submitted to FHWA for approval.
     Third quarter of 2012, the record of decision signed.
Quote from: Grzrd on January 16, 2012, 04:31:05 PM
New terrain I-69 from TN 300 to TN 385 is 12.83 miles in length and is projected to cost $99,031,574.
New terrain I-69 from east (should that be west?) of US 51 near Millington to the Tipton County line is 4.80 miles in length and projected to cost $37,058,429.
The new terrain I-269 section is included on the map as a 2020 project and I assume it is included in TN 300 to TN 385 I-69 project

My assumption was wrong.  I emailed a Comment to the Memphis MPO last night about it and received the following reply:

Quote
The LRTP project that includes the I-69/I-269 interchange and the portion of the new highway from US-51 to the interchange is project ID 158: "I-69, East of US-51 near Millington to the Tipton County line."  It appears that the ID label isn't showing on the map on page 8-37 in the draft LRTP. This portion of the I-69/I-269 project will connect with the existing SR-385 at US-51 and extend northwest/north to the Tipton County line, with a system interchange (no access to surface streets) where project ID 157: "I-69, SR-300 to SR-385,"  ties in.

That will be an interesting project because it will be a combination SIU 8/SIU 9 project.  In addition to the money question, the SIU 8 FEIS and ROD need to be finalized in a timely manner for it to happen.  Time will tell ...
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on January 30, 2012, 02:56:24 PM
Quote from: codyg1985 on November 28, 2011, 07:58:57 AM
What I am curious about is how the TN section of I-69 will tie into the Purchase Pkwy with the complication of having the existing interchange with US 45E.
This article (http://murrayledger.com/news/construction-of-i--could-be-included-in-state-road/article_6c6bc26e-4b4b-11e1-9cc4-0019bb2963f4.html) indicates that KYTC and TDOT officials will meet soon to discuss the KY/TN state line (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Fulton,+KY&hl=en&ll=36.499701,-88.898964&spn=0.066236,0.153637&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=33.435463,78.662109&oq=fulton+ky&hnear=Fulton,+Kentucky&t=h&z=13) connection:

Quote
KYTC Second District Engineer Kevin McClearn of the Department of Highways District One and Two offices in Paducah ...  said the highway [I-69] will improve transportation, promote economic development and reduce congestion of highways ...  Some difficulty is expected at the Tennessee line where officials hope to connect with a major interchange near Fulton.
Burgeoning housing development in the area could cause complications ....
McClearn said both KTC and Tennessee Department of Transportation officials will likely meet soon to discuss details of how the roadway will connect with ongoing projects in the Volunteer State.
During the meeting, Tennessee Transportation Commissioner John Schroer and TDOT project engineers Erwin White and Steve Chipman, said three segments of the highway are "moving forward."  .... Construction in the Union City area is nearing completion, according to White.

It sounds like they need to preserve the corridor sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on February 19, 2012, 11:27:31 AM
In this article (which includes a photo of construction) (http://www.ucmessenger.com/news.php?viewStory=67101), Project Manager Erwin White estimates that it will cost another $230 million to $300 million to complete I-69 in Obion County and that it might take ten to twenty years to do so:

Quote
.... There are actually five new sections of I-69 in Obion County, as work on the interstate through Obion County is being done in phases. The interstate will enter Obion County off the Purchase Parkway and will extend along the existing Highway 51 for part of its route through the county. The interstate will split off from Highway 51 north of Union City and will extend around the west side of the city, across West Main Street, and then will cross West Reelfoot Avenue south of Union City and will parallel Highway 51 on the east until it reconnects with the highway south of Troy.
A majority of the work on the local leg of the interstate has been done on Section 4, which extends from just north of the Titan Tire plant southerly to south of West Main Street.
"Section 4 on the west and north of Union City is under phase 1 construction and is approximately 90 percent complete,"  TDOT project manager Erwin White told The Messenger Tuesday.
So far, more than $30 million has been spent on construction of the interstate project in Obion County. It is estimated the cost to complete the interstate leg through Obion County will take at least another $230 to $300 million, according to  White.
He estimated it could take up to 10 years and possibly as long as 20 years to complete I-69 through Obion County.
"There is no new (federal) construction funding available right now,"  Erwin told The Messenger Tuesday.
He said the state has completed the acquisition of all the right of ways necessary for the interstate through Obion County, except for the ROW acquisition in Section 3 southwest of Union City. He said the state is about 80 percent complete in acquiring the right of ways in that section ....

I wonder if TDOT will actively explore alternative financing options for the Obion County work?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on March 21, 2012, 08:19:17 AM
Quote from: Grzrd on January 16, 2012, 04:31:05 PM
Memphis MPO has posted its Direction 2040 Long Term Transportation Plan on the Direction 2040 website.  It looks like the new thought is to have all of I-69 from TN 300 to the Tipton County line, and I-269 from the interchange to TN 385, completed by 2020:
http://direction2040.com/library/Draft_Chapter_08%20(Implementation%20Plan).pdf

Memphis Urban Area Metropolitan Planning Organization administrator Pragati Srivastava stated yesterday that the expectation is still to have I-69 completed through metro Memphis by 2020 (http://www.memphisdailynews.com/news/2012/mar/21/mpo-administrator-recaps-plans-to-ccim/):

Quote
"The TIP is literally where the rubber meets the road,"  Srivastava said, "because in our TIP, all of the projects that we have identified in our long-range plan get the funding associated with those projects in the Transportation Improvement Program."
The 2011-2014 TIP includes $883 million in total funding, with Tennessee and Mississippi state-sponsored projects reaching $329 million each. Tennessee locally sponsored projects are $204 million, while Mississippi locally sponsored projects are $21 million.
Major projects of the 2011-2014 TIP are completion of Interstate 269 through Tennessee and Mississippi, which Srivastava said "will be completed pretty soon,"  as well as interstate widening projects, highway interchange improvements, and the preliminary phases of Interstate 69 — which is anticipated to be completed by 2020.

EDIT

Quote from: Grzrd on October 13, 2011, 10:23:36 PM
I recently received an email update from Steve Chipman, Project Manager responsible for SIU 8, regarding progress on the SIU 8 FEIS ... I assume his references to "FEDS" were intended to be "FEIS" ... 
At this time we anticipate the FEDS will be completed as follows:
First quarter of 2012, the FEDS will be completed and submitted to TDOT for approval.
Second quarter of 2012, the FEDS will be submitted to FHWA for approval.
Third quarter of 2012, the record of decision signed.

I recently noticed this compact map of SIU 8 (http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/i69/segment8/maps/i-69s03.pdf), which shows the connection to the northern terminus of I-269, as well as projected interchanges along the SIU 8 route.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on March 28, 2012, 12:22:31 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on October 13, 2011, 10:23:36 PM
I recently received an email update from Steve Chipman, Project Manager responsible for SIU 8, regarding progress on the SIU 8 FEIS .... Third quarter of 2012, the record of decision signed.
Quote from: Grzrd on March 21, 2012, 08:19:17 AM
I recently noticed this compact map of SIU 8 (http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/i69/segment8/maps/i-69s03.pdf), which shows the connection to the northern terminus of I-269, as well as projected interchanges along the SIU 8 route.
Quote from: Grzrd on March 16, 2012, 02:51:52 PM
FHWA is requiring that both SIU 14 and 15 are programmed with funding for the Engineer/Design Phase (phase that typically proceeds the completion of the Environmental Study/Assessment). As it stands now, LADOTD will modify the State TIP (i.e. STIP) in accordance with our requested TIP amendments for both SIU 14 and 15. Once that housekeeping issue is completed, we anticipate a ROD being signed for SIU-14 in late April.
(bottom quote from I-69 in LA ... (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4510.25) thread)

LaDOTD's experience with FHWA regarding the necessity for having funding programmed into a STIP before RODs could be issued for SIU 14 and SIU 15 caused me to wonder whether TDOT had the necessary funding programmed for SIU 8 in order to receive a ROD.  The short answer is that the Engineer/ Design funding is in place, and that the current best guess for the issuance of a SIU 8 ROD is that it should occur within a year.  TDOT's response to my email:

Quote
We are anticipating having a FEIS by the end of the year and the ROD by year end or first quarter of 2013.  The answer to your second question is that we already have funding for Engineer/Design phase on SIU 7, 8, and 9.  We need money for acquisition and construction.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on May 22, 2012, 03:07:26 PM
This article (http://www.ucmessenger.com/news.php?viewStory=70661) indicates that Phase 1 construction of Section 4 of SIU 7 near Union City is "nearing completion", but there is no money to proceed with Phase 2 construction:

Quote
Progress on the local section of Interstate 69 continues to be stalled by a lack of federal funding.
Work on one local section of the interstate is continuing, and is actually ahead of schedule, according to Michael Harrison of Ford Construction.
Ford Construction has the contract for Section 4 of I-69, which extends from just north of the Titan Tire plant around to just south of West Main Street .... Phase 1 construction of Section 4 is "nearing completion," according to Erwin White with the state Department of Transportation.
"Phase 1 construction refers to grading, structures, roadway tie-ins that are necessary to maintain traffic around and across the project, erosion control, etc.,"  he stated.
Phase 2 construction for that section has not been budgeted. That phase involves the completion of the interstate base, asphalt paving, installing guardrails, installing signs and striping the interstate.

The entire local leg of I-69 will enter Obion County from South Fulton (Highway 51 South) and will continue along Highway 51 South until it veers southwesterly at Mayberry Road. The I-69 route winds north and west of Union City until it crosses over West Reelfoot Avenue and then continues south around Troy before reconnecting with Highway 51 South and continuing on to Dyersburg.
"It's still ahead of schedule and it'll be finished on time,"  Harrison told The Messenger earlier this week about Phase 1 work on Section 4 of the interstate.
In all, there are five I-69 sections in Obion County, according to Erwin White, project manager for the state Department of Transportation. From his office in Jackson, White continues to monitor the progress of I-69 through West Tennessee.
The right of way acquisitions for Sections 1, 2 and 5 are complete, but no construction funding is budgeted for those sections, according to White.
The anticipated cost to complete I-69 through Obion County is estimated at $230 million to $300 million, according to White.
He said right of way acquisition is about 85 percent complete for Section 3, but no construction funding has been budgeted. That new section of interstate begins where the current work ends just south of West Main Street, and the section continues across East Old Troy Road (east of Bel Air Circle) until it intersects at Walker-Tanner Road.
Ford Construction crews have been working on the overpass at West Main Street and the extension of Section 4 where it connects to Section 3, which is in a field south of West Main Street.
"It won't be much longer,"  Harrison said.
However, until federal funding is allocated for the project, the interstate will remain covered with what Harrison called "incidental asphalt."  The final layer of gravel and asphalt paving will have to wait until funding is approved and contracts are signed for the work.
"If they don't let any more sections ... it'll stay closed,"
Harrison said.
(bold emphasis added by me)

Looks like the money fairy is MIA in NW Tennessee, too.  :-(
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: froggie on May 22, 2012, 04:34:19 PM
However, until federal funding is allocated..."

Because they, like just about everyone else, would prefer to feed off the Federal teet until it's completely dried up instead of making their own milk.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: mightyace on May 22, 2012, 05:03:13 PM
Not 100% of the time.

TN 840 has been funded 100% by the state so as to avoid stricter Federal environment regulations.

That's part of why it's TN 840 instead on I-840 like my avatar.

But, since TN is still paying for 840, they probably don't have much left to fund anything else without Federal aid.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sr641 on May 22, 2012, 05:46:52 PM
I-69 won't be done in Tennessee until about 2025.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on May 25, 2012, 08:32:54 AM
Quote from: froggie on May 22, 2012, 04:34:19 PM
However, until federal funding is allocated..."
Because they, like just about everyone else, would prefer to feed off the Federal teet until it's completely dried up instead of making their own milk.

This article (http://www.nwtntoday.com/news.php?viewStory=70821), in addition to having a "tease" photo of a "Tennessee" I-69 shield,

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FWpF1T.jpg&hash=4675fb0c47ed5a116d6d64e61b6ec87b36a7dc2f)

provides a figure of $1.5 billion as the cost estimate to complete I-69 through Tennessee:

Quote
The amount of money it will take to complete I-69 from Michigan to Mexico is staggering – $25 billion.
It is estimated $1.5 billion will be needed to complete the interstate route through West Tennessee.
For Obion County, $230 million to $300 million is needed to complete the route from Fulton to the southern border of the county (loosely following Highway 51 South around Union City, Troy and Obion).

I-69 Coalition vice president Ed Revell at least pays lip service to some ideas to partially wean Tennessee's I-69 funding off of the federal teat:

Quote
The federal government has taken a conflicting position on I-69, on one hand designating the interstate as a "high priority corridor"  and a "corridor of national significance"  and, then on the other hand, withholding federal funding for the interstate.
That's a problem for Bill Revell, the former mayor of Dyersburg and the longtime I-69 Coalition vice president. He was the main speaker at the annual meeting of the I-69 West Tennessee Coalition, held in Union City Wednesday .... Revell said the coalition needs to develop a "new strategy"  to fund and complete I-69 and get the project back on track.
Among the ideas presented by Revell were:
- A public/private partnership as a method of raising funds
- Establishing toll roads in Tennessee
- Gas tax indexing
- The use of SAFETEA-LU (Safe Accountable Flexible Efficient Transportation Equity Act – A Legacy for Users) funding for I-69.

At least Revell is beginning to talk the talk ...
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: rickmastfan67 on May 25, 2012, 07:49:04 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on May 25, 2012, 08:32:54 AM
This article (http://www.nwtntoday.com/news.php?viewStory=70821)

QuoteThe route of the country's only unfinished interstate extends from Michigan through Indiana, Kentucky, Tennessee, Mississippi, Arkansas, Louisiana and to the southern tip of Texas at the Mexico border.

Somebody needs to tell them that there are at least 5 other "unfinished" Interstates.... I-22, I-49, I-73, I-74, & I-95
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Alps on May 26, 2012, 09:25:41 AM
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on May 25, 2012, 07:49:04 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on May 25, 2012, 08:32:54 AM
This article (http://www.nwtntoday.com/news.php?viewStory=70821)

QuoteThe route of the country's only unfinished interstate extends from Michigan through Indiana, Kentucky, Tennessee, Mississippi, Arkansas, Louisiana and to the southern tip of Texas at the Mexico border.

Somebody needs to tell them that there are at least 5 other "unfinished" Interstates.... I-22, I-49, I-73, I-74, & I-95
I-95 is the country's only true unfinished Interstate. All of the other ones are new or extended Interstates. Also, your list: I-99
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: vdeane on May 26, 2012, 11:50:05 AM
And I-86.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: mightyace on June 01, 2012, 05:12:06 AM
Quote from: Grzrd on May 25, 2012, 08:32:54 AM
I-69 Coalition vice president Ed Revell at least pays lip service to some ideas to partially wean Tennessee's I-69 funding off of the federal teat:

Quote
The federal government has taken a conflicting position on I-69, on one hand designating the interstate as a "high priority corridor"  and a "corridor of national significance"  and, then on the other hand, withholding federal funding for the interstate.
That's a problem for Bill Revell, the former mayor of Dyersburg and the longtime I-69 Coalition vice president. He was the main speaker at the annual meeting of the I-69 West Tennessee Coalition, held in Union City Wednesday .... Revell said the coalition needs to develop a "new strategy"  to fund and complete I-69 and get the project back on track.
Among the ideas presented by Revell were:
- A public/private partnership as a method of raising funds
- Establishing toll roads in Tennessee
- Gas tax indexing
- The use of SAFETEA-LU (Safe Accountable Flexible Efficient Transportation Equity Act – A Legacy for Users) funding for I-69.

At least Revell is beginning to talk the talk ...

Tennessee did pass the Tennessee Tollway Act  (http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/tollway/default.shtml) in 2007.  However, nothing has come out of it other than feasibility studies.
Title: Indiana Bat to Alter Route of Tennessee's I-69?
Post by: Grzrd on June 30, 2012, 09:03:44 AM
Quote from: Grzrd on October 13, 2011, 10:23:36 PM
I recently received an email update from Steve Chipman, Project Manager responsible for SIU 8, regarding progress on the SIU 8 FEIS.  Remarkably, an approximate 500 foot change in the alignment is anticipated to result in an approximate nine month delay in the issuance of a ROD for SIU 8
Quote
the area was used for a landfill and the soil is not suitable for the construction of a highway ... it was determined that a shift in the alignment approximately 500 ft. east would avoid the landfill.
Quote from: Grzrd on March 28, 2012, 12:22:31 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on March 21, 2012, 08:19:17 AM
I recently noticed this compact map of SIU 8 (http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/i69/segment8/maps/i-69s03.pdf), which shows the connection to the northern terminus of I-269, as well as projected interchanges along the SIU 8 route.
Quote from: Grzrd on March 16, 2012, 02:51:52 PM
TDOT's response to my email:
Quote
We are anticipating having a FEIS by the end of the year and the ROD by year end or first quarter of 2013.
Quote from: mukade on April 02, 2012, 09:09:34 PM
More articles from the Evansville Courier Press. I ... am not grasping the bat issue. Will I-69 be built or could it become like US 31 near Benton Harbor, Michigan where there will be a permanent gap?
Indiana bat halts land clearing for I-69 until October (http://www.courierpress.com/news/2012/apr/01/indiana-bat-halts-i-69-work-until-october/?partner=popular)
Quote from: tdindy88 on April 02, 2012, 10:07:26 PM
I'm under the impression that the bat issue isn't going to harm the overall timeline and that Section 4 will still be done in 2014. Parts of that section can still be worked upon this summer, just not the parts with those trees for the bats.
(bottom two of the above quotes from Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4855.msg141477#msg141477) thread)

This TV video report (http://www.wmctv.com/story/18918655/tdot-works) indicates that the Indiana bat is also an issue for Tennessee's I-69 SIU 8 that may cause another alteration in terms of feet in the routing of SIU 8:

Quote
You may shake your head, but an endangered bat could force a new route for the proposed Interstate 69 through a portion of West Tennessee
TDOT crews are already hard at work looking for this endangered mammal that could have a big impact on that interstate.
It's called the Indiana Bat.
It's gray, black, or brown in color and weighs as much as three pennies.
This miniature mammal could determine where Interstate 69 travels from Millington to Dyersburg.
"We're searching for bats," said TDOT Community Relations Officer Nichole Lawrence.
TDOT officials say the endangered bat has already been spotted in East and Middle Tennessee.
They are already searching in rural areas near Covington, Ripley, and Dyersburg ....
Even though the route has been decided, the Indiana Bat could shift the interstate a few feet if a habitat is located.
"It's an endangered species and it's a bat so anytime federal dollars are used for a federal project, we have to make sure the bat or other species isn't in the area," Lawrence said ....
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on July 07, 2012, 10:02:30 AM
Quote from: Grzrd on July 06, 2012, 09:45:13 PM
TDOT's August 3 letting (http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/construction/2012/Notices/notAug3.pdf) includes the 2.667 mile section of I-269 from the Mississippi state line to TN 385.
Quote from: codyg1985 on July 06, 2012, 10:43:30 PM
^ I am looking at the plans now, and it appears that this segment will be signed as I-269 when finished. :o
(above two quotes from Interstate 269 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=1329.msg159213#msg159213) thread)

In another thread discussing MAP-21 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=7067.msg158704#msg158704), I propose the following:

Quote
Quote from: Grzrd on July 04, 2012, 12:56:05 PM
Since MAP-21 apparently contemplates allowing "TO" and "TEMPORARY" signage for I-69 ... I would like to see ... all I-69 overlaps in Memphis immediately add I-69 signage; and ... Have the section of US 51 parallel to the new terrain SIU 9 I-69 corridor immediately be signed as TEMPORARY I-69.

Even if TDOT does not immediately install I-69 signage in metro Memphis, I wonder if I-69 signs will be installed in some form or fashion when the above I-269 segment is opened for travel in 2015?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: roadman65 on July 07, 2012, 10:41:07 AM
The bigger question is will I-155 retain its number when its eastern terminus will be at I-69?  It could no longer use the first digit odd principle if it terminates at two interstates. 
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: vdeane on July 07, 2012, 12:11:58 PM
Why would they renumber it just to conform to a numbering convention that nobody uses anyways?  Roads that connect at both ends to an interstate but aren't a bypass are kinda in a gray area anyways.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on July 07, 2012, 01:05:11 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on July 07, 2012, 10:41:07 AM
The bigger question is will I-155 retain its number when its eastern terminus will be at I-69?  It could no longer use the first digit odd principle if it terminates at two interstates. 
Quote from: deanej on July 07, 2012, 12:11:58 PM
Why would they renumber it just to conform to a numbering convention that nobody uses anyways?  Roads that connect at both ends to an interstate but aren't a bypass are kinda in a gray area anyways.

They could always decommission it and just call it US 412, since that number is as out-of-compliance as an I-155 that had interstates at both termini would be.  :spin:
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: english si on July 07, 2012, 01:58:30 PM
US 412 is less compliant than I-155 meeting another interstate at it's far end, surely? There's bag loads of precedent for 3dis that are odd as they don't join back to their parent route or any siblings (plus other ones that do 'keep it in the family').

I-135 (KS), I-155 (IL), I-170 (MO) - another that the route at the far end became interstate later, I-195 (RI-MA) - meets a sibling at far end, I-196 (MI), I-335 (KS), I-355 (IL), I-376 (PA), I-380 (PA), I-390 (NY) - far end became interstate later, I-395 (CT-MA), I-505 (CA), I-520 (GA-SC) - meets parent at both ends, I-580 (CA), I-590 (NY) - meets siblings at both ends, I-780(CA) and I-980 (CA) - meets two siblings.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: TheStranger on July 07, 2012, 09:02:47 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on July 07, 2012, 10:41:07 AM
The bigger question is will I-155 retain its number when its eastern terminus will be at I-69?  It could no longer use the first digit odd principle if it terminates at two interstates. 

The rule really only is that it doesn't terminate at its parent (the Illinois usage of odd 3dis and California's I-505 come to mind), with the extended I-520 and I-376 being the two recent exceptions to this.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: roadman65 on July 07, 2012, 09:15:25 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 07, 2012, 01:05:11 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on July 07, 2012, 10:41:07 AM
The bigger question is will I-155 retain its number when its eastern terminus will be at I-69?  It could no longer use the first digit odd principle if it terminates at two interstates. 
Quote from: deanej on July 07, 2012, 12:11:58 PM
Why would they renumber it just to conform to a numbering convention that nobody uses anyways?  Roads that connect at both ends to an interstate but aren't a bypass are kinda in a gray area anyways.

They could always decommission it and just call it US 412, since that number is as out-of-compliance as an I-155 that had interstates at both termini would be.  :spin:
Well stranger things have happened before.
Anyway the real thing I was getting at I was totally unsure of how exactly the numbering scheme really worked for 3 digits.  I was told why I-684 in NYS was allowed to be first digit even though it is a spur of its parent and not a loop.  It is because both terminuses interchange with other interstates.  Then someone wrote into Wikipedia about I-495 being a violation because its 1980's extension past I-295 to Eastern Long Island near Riverhead requires it to be a first digit odd cause it ends at a non interstate facility as before it connected to two interstates at each end.  Remember, originally I-495 was to cross Manhattan and be NJ 495 is now.   So it would have connected its parent in Secuacus, NJ and I-78 then I-295 in Queens under its original scheme.  I am well aware of I-376 breaking the rules and I have seen some suggestions on here or other roadgeek sites that this should be changed or in a perfect world swap places with I-476 would be best is my suggestion.

I could really care less what they call it as I do not loose any sleep like many do on this forumover roads not conforming to FHWA standards.  Heck call it plain ol US 412 that is not in the grid or even call it I-238 eastern extension. 
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on July 13, 2012, 11:08:31 AM
Quote from: Grzrd on March 21, 2012, 08:19:17 AM
Memphis Urban Area Metropolitan Planning Organization administrator Pragati Srivastava stated yesterday that the expectation is still to have I-69 completed through metro Memphis by 2020 (http://www.memphisdailynews.com/news/2012/mar/21/mpo-administrator-recaps-plans-to-ccim/):
Quote
"The TIP is literally where the rubber meets the road,"  Srivastava said, "because in our TIP, all of the projects that we have identified in our long-range plan get the funding associated with those projects in the Transportation Improvement Program ...."
Major projects of the 2011-2014 TIP are ... the preliminary phases of Interstate 69 — which is anticipated to be completed by 2020.
Quote from: froggie on May 22, 2012, 04:34:19 PM
However, until federal funding is allocated..."
Because they, like just about everyone else, would prefer to feed off the Federal teet until it's completely dried up instead of making their own milk.
Quote from: Grzrd on May 25, 2012, 08:32:54 AM
This article (http://www.nwtntoday.com/news.php?viewStory=70821) ... [mentions that] ... I-69 Coalition vice president Ed Revell at least pays lip service to some ideas to partially wean Tennessee's I-69 funding off of the federal teat:
Quote
Among the ideas presented by Revell were:
- A public/private partnership as a method of raising funds
- Establishing toll roads in Tennessee
- Gas tax indexing
- The use of SAFETEA-LU (Safe Accountable Flexible Efficient Transportation Equity Act – A Legacy for Users) funding for I-69.


After seeing the scheduled lettings for the remaining sections of Tennessee's I-269 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=1329.msg159213#msg159213), I emailed Ms. Srivastava and asked what the game plan is for I-69 in metro Memphis through 2020.  Given her March comments, I was a little surprised by her response (and caused to wonder how they could include a 2020 completion date in the 2040 LRTP  :hmm:):

Quote
I-69 is a highway of national significance, reaching far beyond the borders of Tennessee.  So far our investments in I-69 total more than $200 million, most of which was comprised of federal earmarks with some state matching funds.  At this time there is no further federal funding dedicated to the I-69 corridor.  Without a commitment on the federal level, Tennessee and other I-69 corridor states, are faced with difficult choices on how to proceed with the development of I-69.  It is difficult to continue our efforts to engage the public regarding I-69 projects when we are unable to define schedules and provide property owners with the information they desire.  These are the reasons TDOT has made the decision to postpone any further public meetings and design work on the various segments of I-69 until there is a dedicated funding source.   When and if the funding issue is resolved, TDOT will be ready to resume work on I-69.

It will be interesting to see if TDOT either examines alternative forms of financing (such as those suggested by the I-69 Coalition) or continues to sit back and wait on the federal government...
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: mightyace on July 13, 2012, 09:03:12 PM
As I've mentioned on more than one occasion, Tennessee has a tollway authority, even though it's dormant.  The hard part would be getting to feds to allow parts of I-69 to be a toll road.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: codyg1985 on July 16, 2012, 09:16:27 AM
Quote from: mightyace on July 13, 2012, 09:03:12 PM
The hard part would be getting to feds to allow parts of I-69 to be a toll road.

I believe that a bypass along US 77 that will be a portion of I-69 in south Texas is going to be built as a toll facility.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: bugo on July 16, 2012, 11:56:11 AM
Is there a real need for US 77 to be a freeway?  Isn't it a 4 lane divided road from Victoria to Harlingen except for a few short stretches?  From the looks on the map, there are long stretches of nothing.  Isn't that good enough?  What is the speed limit (I'm guessing 70.)  If there are small towns it still goes through, then by all means bypass them but building a new interstate next to a perfectly good 4 lane highway seems wasteful to me.

And why is US 281 being upgraded when it runs 20-25 miles west and parallel to US 77?  The whole I-69 deal stinks of pork.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: codyg1985 on July 16, 2012, 11:57:26 AM
Quote from: bugo on July 16, 2012, 11:56:11 AM
Is there a real need for US 77 to be a freeway?  Isn't it a 4 lane divided road from Victoria to Harlingen except for a few short stretches?  From the looks on the map, there are long stretches of nothing.  Isn't that good enough?  What is the speed limit (I'm guessing 70.)  If there are small towns it still goes through, then by all means bypass them but building a new interstate next to a perfectly good 4 lane highway seems wasteful to me.

I believe the road in between the small towns will be upgraded to interstate standards, but bypasses will be built around the towns. The bypasses will be tolled, I believe.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Anthony_JK on July 16, 2012, 12:05:40 PM
Quote from: bugo on July 16, 2012, 11:56:11 AM
Is there a real need for US 77 to be a freeway?  Isn't it a 4 lane divided road from Victoria to Harlingen except for a few short stretches?  From the looks on the map, there are long stretches of nothing.  Isn't that good enough?  What is the speed limit (I'm guessing 70.)  If there are small towns it still goes through, then by all means bypass them but building a new interstate next to a perfectly good 4 lane highway seems wasteful to me.

And why is US 281 being upgraded when it runs 20-25 miles west and parallel to US 77?  The whole I-69 deal stinks of pork.

Well...they're not exactly building a new Interstate....just upgrading the existing highway with grade seperated crossovers and ramps to the ranch entrances, with bypasses where needed. Not nearly as expensive.

I can agree with you on US 281, though...that sounds like more overkill to me.

I still say, though, that signing US 77 as "I-69" violates the spirit of the original intended I-69 corridor, which was US 59 to Laredo. I'd prefer an extended I-37 for US 77 myself, and save I-69 for when the Laredo-Houston segments are upgraded. But, they've made their decision, I guess.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Anthony_JK on July 16, 2012, 12:08:49 PM
Quote from: codyg1985 on July 16, 2012, 11:57:26 AM
Quote from: bugo on July 16, 2012, 11:56:11 AM
Is there a real need for US 77 to be a freeway?  Isn't it a 4 lane divided road from Victoria to Harlingen except for a few short stretches?  From the looks on the map, there are long stretches of nothing.  Isn't that good enough?  What is the speed limit (I'm guessing 70.)  If there are small towns it still goes through, then by all means bypass them but building a new interstate next to a perfectly good 4 lane highway seems wasteful to me.

I believe the road in between the small towns will be upgraded to interstate standards, but bypasses will be built around the towns. The bypasses will be tolled, I believe.

I thought that tolling the bypasses was just one option of many, and I had heard that they had found a way to fund the bypasses without tolling.  I'll check and see...
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Anthony_JK on July 16, 2012, 12:59:42 PM
Oh...and shouldn't these last few posts be moved to the "I-69 in TX" thread?? Not quite TN, I reckon... :spin:
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: codyg1985 on July 16, 2012, 01:38:17 PM
Quote from: Anthony_JK on July 16, 2012, 12:59:42 PM
Oh...and shouldn't these last few posts be moved to the "I-69 in TX" thread?? Not quite TN, I reckon... :spin:

Yeah...sorry for the slight off-topic posting. It is always tricky when things in one thread get brought up that fits better in another. :colorful:
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Alps on July 16, 2012, 07:49:07 PM
It's part of the flow of discussion. You may want to raise it there also, but it's probably run its course here.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on July 16, 2012, 09:56:29 PM
Quote from: mightyace on July 13, 2012, 09:03:12 PM
As I've mentioned on more than one occasion, Tennessee has a tollway authority, even though it's dormant.  The hard part would be getting to feds to allow parts of I-69 to be a toll road.

In this thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=7186.msg161116#msg161116), I interpret MAP-21 as permitting tolls on new terrain interstates because such construction is "initial construction of a highway":

Quote from: Grzrd on July 13, 2012, 10:07:08 PM
I wondered how MAP-21 (http://www.rules.house.gov/Media/file/PDF_112_2/LegislativeText/CRPT-112hrpt-HR4348.pdf) addresses the issue of tolling.  Section 1512(a)(1)(A) [pages 167-68/599 of pdf] appears to allow tolling of new terrain sections of interstates:
Quote
SEC. 1512. TOLLING.
(a) AMENDMENT TO TOLLING PROVISION.—Section 129(a) of title 23, United States Code, is amended to read as follows:
‘‘(a) BASIC PROGRAM.—
‘‘(1) AUTHORIZATION FOR FEDERAL PARTICIPATION.—Subject to the provisions of this section, Federal participation shall be
permitted on the same basis and in the same manner as construction of toll-free highways is permitted under this chapter
in the—
‘‘(A) initial construction of a toll highway, bridge, or tunnel or approach to the highway, bridge, or tunnel

Even with tolls allowed, the question would be whether there would be sufficient traffic volume along Tennessee's I-69 corridor to generate enough money from the tolls to account for a high percentage of construction costs.  Also, if tolls were to be implemented, then there would probably need to be some sort of mechanism around the I-155 bridge to account for potential shunpikers traveling on I-55 from Memphis to Dyersburg, as suggested below (even though the quote is in an entirely different context):

Quote from: Sykotyk on October 10, 2011, 06:46:37 AM
This future I-69 (when fully completed through southern Arkansas and northern Louisiana) will greatly alleviate a lot of the heavy truck traffic that's clogging up I-30/I-40 (aside from the split speed limit that buffers car traffic as well).
Even if Tennessee doesn't build up US51 (it's a pain right now), the easy alternative is I-55 north to I-155 to Dyersburg.
Sykotyk
(above quote from I-69 in TX (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3624.msg118455#msg118455) thread)

At the very least, I believe that Tennessee will conduct a toll feasibility study for I-69.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on July 20, 2012, 09:41:26 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on April 16, 2012, 04:18:18 PM
TDOT has released its 2013-15 3-Year Plan (http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/documents/TDOT3yrPlan.pdf) and an accompanying Regional Project Highlights (http://news.tn.gov/system/files/Regional%20Fact%20Sheets.pdf) sheet.
(above quote from Tennessee (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=99.msg143748#msg143748) thread)

This article (http://www.nwtntoday.com/news.php?viewStory=72710) reports that Congressman Stephen Fincher recently assured Obion County officals that MAP-21 keeps federal funding "in place" for I-69:

Quote
Congressman Stephen Fincher made his first appearance at the Obion County Courthouse Monday afternoon a very memorable one .... Topics covered during the meeting included ... I-69 ...
Fincher informed the more than 40 people at the meeting that a two-year federal transportation bill has passed, which could provide funding for such projects as I-69. He explained that he and others in Congress pushed for a five-year bill, but he said the two-year transportation legislation that was passed will at least keep federal funding in place for such projects as I-69 ...

It's true that MAP-21 could provide funding for I-69; however, since MAP-21 contains no federal earmarks for specific projects and no non-I-269 projects are included in the 2013-15 3-Year Plan, I doubt TDOT will suddenly change their priorities to include I-69 project(s).
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on August 02, 2012, 06:41:35 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on July 20, 2012, 09:41:26 PM
I doubt TDOT will suddenly change their priorities to include I-69 project(s).

This article (http://www.memphisdailynews.com/news/2012/aug/3/congestion-woes/) suggests that lack of progress on I-69 in Arkansas and Louisiana has moved I-69 towards the bottom of TDOT's priorities:

Quote
Tennessee Transportation Commissioner John Schroer told the Regional Logistics Council Thursday, Aug. 2, that his office has the "right priority list"  of road projects for the Memphis area ....
the state is not moving ahead with any funding of the Tennessee portion of the Interstate 69 project until or unless there is a dedicated source of funding.
The $140 million the state has spent on the north-south interstate so far has been federal highway fund money.
"We have 1,500 projects and $9.5 billion worth of work. I-69 is an important road if it is built to completion north to south. It is, in my opinion, not as important if it's only built from Mississippi to Kentucky,"  Schroer said in response to a question about I-69. "We are spending our money on other projects that have a larger, more immediate impact and using the limited dollars we have to impact more people throughout the state. Until we get dedicated funding for I-69 we won't be spending any more money on it."

Would a study demonstrate the feasibility of tolls for I-69?

EDIT

Quote from: hbelkins on December 01, 2011, 03:30:22 PM
That Schorer guy looks a lot like Kentucky's governor. My first thought upon seeing that picture was, "WTF is that idiot doing holding a state-named shield from Tennessee when we don't even have them in Kentucky?"

I guess below may be the last Tennessee I-69 shield Schroer will ever hold:
Quote from: Grzrd on December 01, 2011, 11:03:28 AM
http://www.stategazette.com/story/1790054/photo/1584026.html
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FHxhP4.jpg&hash=480d44748ccdcbe7d39e63a27ead54954abd0fac)
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on September 05, 2012, 10:24:14 AM
Quote from: Grzrd on May 22, 2012, 03:07:26 PM
This article (http://www.ucmessenger.com/news.php?viewStory=70661) indicates that Phase 1 construction of Section 4 of SIU 7 near Union City is "nearing completion", but there is no money to proceed with Phase 2 construction:
Quote
Phase 1 construction of Section 4 is "nearing completion,"  according to Erwin White with the state Department of Transportation.
"Phase 1 construction refers to grading, structures, roadway tie-ins that are necessary to maintain traffic around and across the project, erosion control, etc.,"  he stated.
Phase 2 construction for that section has not been budgeted. That phase involves the completion of the interstate base, asphalt paving, installing guardrails, installing signs and striping the interstate .... However, until federal funding is allocated for the project, the interstate will remain covered with what [Michael Harrison of Ford Construction] called "incidental asphalt."  The final layer of gravel and asphalt paving will have to wait until funding is approved and contracts are signed for the work.
"If they don't let any more sections ... it'll stay closed,"  Harrison said.
Quote from: Grzrd on August 02, 2012, 06:41:35 PM
This article (http://www.memphisdailynews.com/news/2012/aug/3/congestion-woes/) suggests that lack of progress on I-69 in Arkansas and Louisiana has moved I-69 towards the bottom of TDOT's priorities:
Quote
Tennessee Transportation Commissioner John Schroer ... "We have 1,500 projects and $9.5 billion worth of work. I-69 is an important road if it is built to completion north to south. It is, in my opinion, not as important if it's only built from Mississippi to Kentucky,” Schroer said in response to a question about I-69. "We are spending our money on other projects that have a larger, more immediate impact and using the limited dollars we have to impact more people throughout the state. Until we get dedicated funding for I-69 we won't be spending any more money on it.”

TDOT recently posted the Schedule for Commissioner Schroer's upcoming Region 4 bus tour (http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/tour/schedules/Region4ProjectsTour2012SCHEDULE82412.pdf) and it is notable that, even though Obion County's first I-69 project is either complete or nearly complete, Commissioner Schroer did not include a visit to it on the bus tour.  I guess it would be a pointless visit since it will probably sit unused for a long time.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on September 18, 2012, 03:38:29 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on March 28, 2012, 12:22:31 PM
Quote
We are anticipating having a FEIS by the end of the year and the ROD by year end or first quarter of 2013.  The answer to your second question is that we already have funding for Engineer/Design phase on SIU 7, 8, and 9.  We need money for acquisition and construction.
Quote from: Grzrd on June 30, 2012, 09:03:44 AM
This TV video report (http://www.wmctv.com/story/18918655/tdot-works) indicates that the Indiana bat is also an issue for Tennessee's I-69 SIU 8
Quote
You may shake your head, but an endangered bat could force a new route for the proposed Interstate 69 through a portion of West Tennessee ... It's called the Indiana Bat ... This miniature mammal could determine where Interstate 69 travels from Millington to Dyersburg.
"We're searching for bats," said TDOT Community Relations Officer Nichole Lawrence.

An email I recently received from TDOT indicates that no bats were found, but the anticipated date for receiving a Record of Decision on the Millington to Dyersburg SIU 8 section of I-69 has been pushed back to the third quarter of 2013:

Quote
The Indiana bat study has added some to time to the completion of the FEIS.  The study was completed in August and no Indiana Bats were found.  The consultant is working  hard to have the FEIS submitted to TDOT for review by year end.   We anticipate having a ROD around the 3 quarter of 2013.

The email also confirms the (hopefully) temporary "deep sleep" of I-69 in Tennessee by indicating that even all design work is coming to a halt:

Quote
We have nearly spent all of the federal earmark dollars for I-69 and there are no further federal dollars dedicated to the I-69 project at this time.  Federal dollars will be used to fund 80% of the project and without a commitment at the federal level it is difficult for us to continue our efforts to develop the project.  Therefore, we have made the decision to postpone any further design work on the various segments of I-69 until there is a dedicated funding source.  When the funding issue is resolved, TDOT will be ready to resume work.

I'm beginning to wonder if TDOT's decision to shut down I-69 will have an impact on Mississippi DOT's desire to complete the Tunica area to Mississippi River Bridge SIU 11 of Interstate 69?  LaDOTD and AHTD are already moving at a glacial pace in Louisiana and Arkansas.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on November 14, 2012, 08:18:43 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on May 22, 2012, 03:07:26 PM
This article (http://www.ucmessenger.com/news.php?viewStory=70661) indicates that Phase 1 construction of Section 4 of SIU 7 near Union City is "nearing completion", but there is no money to proceed with Phase 2 construction:
Quote
Progress on the local section of Interstate 69 continues to be stalled by a lack of federal funding ... Work on one local section of the interstate is continuing, and is actually ahead of schedule, according to Michael Harrison of Ford Construction ... Ford Construction has the contract for Section 4 of I-69, which extends from just north of the Titan Tire plant around to just south of West Main Street .... Phase 1 construction of Section 4 is "nearing completion,” according to Erwin White with the state Department of Transportation.
"Phase 1 construction refers to grading, structures, roadway tie-ins that are necessary to maintain traffic around and across the project, erosion control, etc.,” he stated .... However, until federal funding is allocated for the project, the interstate will remain covered with what Harrison called "incidental asphalt.” The final layer of gravel and asphalt paving will have to wait until funding is approved and contracts are signed for the work.
"If they don't let any more sections ... it'll stay closed,” Harrison said.

This brief Oct. 29 article (http://www.nwtntoday.com/news.php?viewStory=76691) indicates that the Section 4 work is "winding down":

Quote
Work on the local leg of the interstate is winding down this fall, with no new federal funding allocated for the project locally.

The article also has a photo of construction on an overpass:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F5Zhmt.jpg&hash=2a6413d62605731aa48bed4b56d6a663027035ba)
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on December 25, 2012, 04:08:26 PM
Quote from: lordsutch on December 17, 2012, 04:09:21 AM
the west TN politicos ... were more interested in better routes from their region to Nashville than getting from Union City and Dyersburg to Memphis, hence the ridiculously overbuilt TN 22 freeway, US 412 from Jackson to Dyersburg, etc.  The parts of US 51 freeway north of Dyersburg also fit in this mold.
And now those politicians are gone, and the ones that replaced them aren't particularly interested in diverting resources to an area they think got disproportionate attention from the 60s through 80s, hence the lack of I-69 progress ... it'll be a while before the political pressure is there again.
(above quote from Interstate 269 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=1329.msg191192#msg191192) thread)

This Memphis Commercial Appeal (http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2012/dec/24/no-headline---evergreen_interstate/) article reports that at least one west Tennessee legislator thinks TDOT Commissioner John Schroer needs to explain to the state legislature his decision to halt I-69 work for the foreseeable future because of the legislator's perception of an east Tennessee bias on the part of Schroer:

Quote
state Sen. Jim Kyle, D-Memphis and the Senate's Democratic minority leader., said I-69 is "certainly dead in Tennessee" at least for now, and he is critical of the process.
"This is touted as a huge economic engine for every state touched by I-69," Kyle said. "For the commissioner to just do that I think is unusual.We've never had any public discussion of that decision with the legislature, particularly in the affected counties. They get a huge percentage of federal funding.
"As near as I can tell, the justification he gave has never been explained to a legislative committee and I think it should be. I intend to ask the (Senate) Transportation Committee to hold hearings on the matter. It's another example that the focus of this administration is east of the Tennessee River. It's something especially we Shelby County and West Tennessee legislators need to ask."

The article also reports that TDOT's current estimate to complete I-69 through Tennessee is $1.5 billion to $2 billion:

Quote
Tennessee has invested about $200 million in the I-69 corridor, which parallels the Mississippi River and U.S. 51, in planning, design and right-of-way acquisition. TDOT estimates it will take from $1.5 billion to $2 billion to build and complete the project through the state, according to Nichole Lawrence, TDOT's West Tennessee community relations officer.

edit

The article also reports that Schroer not only wants dedicated funding for I-69 in Tennessee before proceeding with construction, but also wants dedicated funding for I-69 in other states along the route, as well:

Quote
... B.J. Doughty, TDOT's director of communications and community relations.
"They (the federal government) have not said they are going to dedicate funding for it. What the commissioner wants is some dedicated funding for I-69, not only to Tennessee but to other states as well. We're ready to proceed when there is dedicated funding."
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: lordsutch on December 26, 2012, 02:23:56 AM
The real root of the distrust here goes back to the botched 840 planning.  The state spent tens of millions of dollars, maybe even hundreds of millions, that could have gone toward matching the federal share on other projects (I-69, TN 385, I-475, US 27, etc.) to avoid doing a federal EIS on 840 (and dug in their heels under West Tennessee governors like Sundquist and McWherter, I might add), and then the state dragged the construction out so long that the EIS and inevitable lawsuits really wouldn't have delayed its completion much.

I think politically the winds aren't right at the moment, but eventually the Democrats will figure out again how to run statewide candidates in the south who can go back to the Whitten/Byrd days of "tax the rich yankees and spend it here in the south," or the southern GOP will figure out how to run on that platform again instead of the zealously-anti-(non-military)-pork one.  That's the politics that built roads like I-68, I-22, and the original I-49, for better or for worse.  But I wouldn't count on the rump Tennessee Democrats like Kyle to make that happen; Memphis is basically at the bottom of the state GOP's Christmas Card list, after decades of Democrats running roughshod at the state level, and it's gonna be a while before the GOP is done returning he favor.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on January 05, 2013, 05:54:09 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on December 25, 2012, 04:08:26 PM
This Memphis Commercial Appeal (http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2012/dec/24/no-headline---evergreen_interstate/) article reports that .... Schroer not only wants dedicated funding for I-69 in Tennessee before proceeding with construction, but also wants dedicated funding for I-69 in other states along the route, as well

This may be confused reporting, but this Jan. 4 article (http://www.jacksonsun.com/article/20130105/NEWS01/301050015/Road-projects-planned-TDOT-commissioner-discusses-work-Northwest-Tennessee) reports that limited I-69 construction will continue in northwest Tennessee:

Quote
Schroer said the I-69 corridor in Tennessee has been in the planning stage for more than 20 years. He said the entire project will cost about $2 billion.
"We're about to complete I-269 and connect it to I-55 through Mississippi,"  he said. "We're also doing some work in the northwest part of the state."
Schroer said the northwest portion of I-69 will be completed within five to eight years, depending on state funding. He said additional parts of the interstate will require additional funding from a federal grant.

Every other article/editorial that I have read on this subject indicates that I-69 construction in Tennessee is coming to a complete halt.  Maybe finishing the I-155 to Kentucky state line Section of Independent Utility 7 ("SIU 7") to some degree is still "live"?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on January 08, 2013, 11:00:32 AM
Quote from: Grzrd on January 05, 2013, 05:54:09 PM
This may be confused reporting, but this Jan. 4 article (http://www.jacksonsun.com/article/20130105/NEWS01/301050015/Road-projects-planned-TDOT-commissioner-discusses-work-Northwest-Tennessee) reports that limited I-69 construction will continue in northwest Tennessee:
Quote
Schroer said the northwest portion of I-69 will be completed within five to eight years, depending on state funding. He said additional parts of the interstate will require additional funding from a federal grant.
Maybe finishing the I-155 to Kentucky state line Section of Independent Utility 7 ("SIU 7") to some degree is still "live"?

TDOT Commissioner Schroer has a guest column in the Jan. 8 Memphis Commercial Appeal (http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2013/jan/08/guest-column-xxyxyxxy/) in which he speaks about I-69 construction between "Memphis and Dyersburg":

Quote
The decision to halt work on the segment of Interstate 69 in West Tennessee is the right decision for now ....
Currently, there are no more congressional earmarks, no promises and no commitments on the federal level to help us finish this highway. That leaves TDOT staring at a $1.5 billion price tag to build 65 miles of new highway between Memphis and Dyersburg.

It sounds to me like he is saying that work will continue on SIU 7 (http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/i69/documents/i69.pdf) and that the above Jan 4 article reported the situation correctly.

Quote from: Sykotyk on October 10, 2011, 06:46:37 AM
This future I-69 (when fully completed through southern Arkansas and northern Louisiana) will greatly alleviate a lot of the heavy truck traffic that's clogging up I-30/I-40 (aside from the split speed limit that buffers car traffic as well).
Even if Tennessee doesn't build up US51 (it's a pain right now), the easy alternative is I-55 north to I-155 to Dyersburg.
Sykotyk
(above quote from I-69 in TX (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3624.msg118455#msg118455) thread)

Completing SIU 7 would make sense in terms of connecting I-155 to I-69 in Kentucky and Indiana.  Schroer has a legitimate point that it is hard to justify I-69 from Dyersburg to Shreveport without more committed funding.  It will be interesting to see if any more Union City I-69 projects will get funding in the next year or so.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on January 08, 2013, 11:51:52 AM
The section from Dyersburg to South Fulton is all freeway except for South Union. Isn't the section under construction there designed to provide a full freeway bypass of South Union (which will then be a good candidate for the "Bypasses of Bypasses" thread)?

Once that's done, the route will be a full limited access freeway all the way from I-55 in Missouri to the end of the Pennyrile Parkway in Henderson for northbound traffic. Southbound traffic will have to stop at the end of the ramp that carries US 51 off the Fulton/South Fulton bypass.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: codyg1985 on January 08, 2013, 11:53:51 AM
I imagine the most expensive part of the Dyersburg to Fulton segment will be reworking the interchange with US 45E at South Fulton, KY.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on January 08, 2013, 12:02:31 PM
Quote from: codyg1985 on January 08, 2013, 11:53:51 AM
I imagine the most expensive part of the Dyersburg to Fulton segment will be reworking the interchange with US 45E at South Fulton, KY.

Only thing I've ever noticed that is not up to Interstate standards, besides the interchange, is the U-turn required for northbound US 51/45W traffic to access Ken-Tenn Road, TN Secondary (mumble) and the obvious old routing of US 51/45W.

A flyover northbound and some widening on the southbound ramp ought to knock out the problems at the state line interchange.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on February 04, 2013, 10:06:30 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on July 16, 2012, 09:56:29 PM
Quote from: mightyace on July 13, 2012, 09:03:12 PM
As I've mentioned on more than one occasion, Tennessee has a tollway authority, even though it's dormant.  The hard part would be getting to feds to allow parts of I-69 to be a toll road.
Even with tolls allowed, the question would be whether there would be sufficient traffic volume along Tennessee's I-69 corridor to generate enough money from the tolls to account for a high percentage of construction costs.

This article (http://www.stategazette.com/story/1937580.html) reports that traffic studies have indicated that I-69 would not generate enough traffic to support tolls:

Quote
State Rep. Bill Sanderson addressed approximately 75 residents .... After Sanderson's detailed update on what is transpiring in Nashville he fielded questions from the audience, and Dyersburg Alderman Bob Kirk .... asked if there was a possibility of installing a toll road to generate revenue for the corridor. Sanderson responded that Schroer previously had addressed the use of toll roads to fund I-69. However, traffic studies indicated that there would not be enough traffic to generate the required revenue.

Attendees were also encouraged to attend a Feb. 22 meeting with Tennessee Department of Transportation Commissioner John Schroer:

Quote
... Dyersburg Alderman Bob Kirk immediately asked about the status of Interstate 69. Sanderson responded that he had just met with Tennessee Department of Transportation Commissioner John Schroer, who is concerned about the current funding for the I-69 corridor or lack thereof. Schroer pointed to vehicles extending their gas mileage as well as the costs of asphalt rising. Also Sanderson stated that I-69 began as a federal earmark to construct a highway that runs north and south from Michigan to Texas. Currently there are no federal earmarks to complete the highway.
"There is no urgency in his (Schroer's) voice to complete it," said Sanderson.
Everyone was encouraged to attend a public meeting with Schroer set to take place at the Chamber on Friday, Feb. 22 at noon. Sanderson said that interested individuals should come and stress the importance of completing at least the portions that are half done in Union City and Memphis.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on February 12, 2013, 07:41:36 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on January 08, 2013, 11:00:32 AM
Quote from: Grzrd on January 05, 2013, 05:54:09 PM
This may be confused reporting, but this Jan. 4 article (http://www.jacksonsun.com/article/20130105/NEWS01/301050015/Road-projects-planned-TDOT-commissioner-discusses-work-Northwest-Tennessee) reports that limited I-69 construction will continue in northwest Tennessee:
Quote
Schroer said the northwest portion of I-69 will be completed within five to eight years, depending on state funding. He said additional parts of the interstate will require additional funding from a federal grant.
TDOT Commissioner Schroer has a guest column in the Jan. 8 Memphis Commercial Appeal (http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2013/jan/08/guest-column-xxyxyxxy/) in which he speaks about I-69 construction between "Memphis and Dyersburg":
Quote
The decision to halt work on the segment of Interstate 69 in West Tennessee is the right decision for now ....
Currently, there are no more congressional earmarks, no promises and no commitments on the federal level to help us finish this highway. That leaves TDOT staring at a $1.5 billion price tag to build 65 miles of new highway between Memphis and Dyersburg.

This article (http://www.dresdenenterprise.com/main.asp?SectionID=2&SubSectionID=27&ArticleID=218) seems to bring some clarity to Schroer's remarks by reporting on comments made by Eighth District U.S. Rep. Stephen Fincher indicating that construction on the Union City and Memphis sections of I-69 will proceed, but the section between Troy and Memphis is being halted:

Quote
Congressman Fincher stated the Tennessee Department of Transportation is slated to receive approximately $1 billion per year for the next three years. He stressed the importance of spending as much of the money on the I-69 project as possible, because the completion of the interstate highway will lead to the creation of jobs.
"It will change forever the landscape of this district,"  Fincher said.
"Memphis is where everything is coming together. You've got the rail, the air, the water and the roads. The problem is the bridge that's going to be built over the Mississippi River. That's a funding problem. They're talking about a toll. They're talking about a lot of things. We are all for I-69. We're working every day to secure more funding."
Fincher mentioned that mayors and other elected official could apply for a grant for "Roads of National Significance"  that could possible provide additional funding. He explained there is $1 billion in the fund, and Tennessee could possibly get some of the funding.
Fincher stated, over the next three or four years, the lower part of the I-69 project will be completed around Union City, which will cost approximately $100 million. It will cost another $100 million to complete the I-69 project from Memphis to the Mississippi border.
"The problem is between Troy and Memphis,"  Fincher said. "All of that area, from what a commissioner told me, will be halted (due to insufficient funding).
And to me, that's a problem."

I'm guessing that "Memphis to the Mississippi border" means from an I-69/I-269 interchange near Millington to the Mississippi state line. It will now be interesting to see if any I-69 projects show up in a couple of months in the next TIP.




Quote from: Grzrd on February 04, 2013, 10:06:30 PM
This article (http://www.stategazette.com/story/1937580.html) reports that .... Attendees were also encouraged to attend a Feb. 22 meeting with Tennessee Department of Transportation Commissioner John Schroer

It would be nice if Commissioner Schroer will set forth a timeline for completion of the Union City and Memphis segments at the February 22 meeting.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on February 24, 2013, 02:11:19 AM
Quote from: Grzrd on February 12, 2013, 07:41:36 PM
This article (http://www.stategazette.com/story/1937580.html) reports that .... Attendees were also encouraged to attend a Feb. 22 meeting with Tennessee Department of Transportation Commissioner John Schroer

This article (http://www.stategazette.com/story/1944253.html) reports that Schroer estimated in the February 22 meeting that it will take three to four years to complete the section in Union City (excluding paving), and approximately ten years to complete it to Troy:

Quote
Tennessee Department of Transportation Commissioner John Schroer's visit to Dyer County on Friday afternoon was not as painful as some local leaders may have expected ....
Schroer said I-69 projects from both the north and south have begun, with three segments in Union City partially complete. With right-of-way purchases and plans drawn, Schroer said the cost to complete the road to Troy will still take $120 million, half the funds available in the state transportation budget.
"We are committed to getting this section done," said Schroer, who estimates it will take four years to complete the second and third segments of the highway through Union City and a little longer to complete the paving. "We will be following that into Troy."
Schroer expects that leg of the project to take $60 million. Work on that portion, too, will be divided.
"(We will divide that into) two segments," said Schroer. "That will probably take somewhere around a 10-year program."

When that section is complete, Schroer said Tennessee will have the north and south sides of I-69 complete.
"(We will just be) waiting on the middle section," said Schroer, who said that middle section - SIU 8 - consists of 65 miles between Millington and Dyersburg. "(That cost is estimated at) $1.2 billion to 1.5 billion in today's dollars." ....




Quote from: Grzrd on January 16, 2012, 04:31:05 PM
New terrain I-69 from TN 300 to TN 385 is 12.83 miles in length and is projected to cost $99,031,574.
New terrain I-69 from east ... of US 51 near Millington to the Tipton County line is 4.80 miles in length and projected to cost $37,058,429.
Quote from: Grzrd on January 18, 2012, 06:13:53 PM
I emailed a Comment to the Memphis MPO last night about it and received the following reply:
Quote
The LRTP project that includes the I-69/I-269 interchange and the portion of the new highway from US-51 to the interchange is project ID 158: "I-69, East of US-51 near Millington to the Tipton County line. ... This portion of the I-69/I-269 project will connect with the existing SR-385 at US-51 and extend northwest/north to the Tipton County line, with a system interchange (no access to surface streets) where project ID 157: "I-69, SR-300 to SR-385,"  ties in.
Quote
Schroer said Tennessee will have the ... south side ... of I-69 complete.

I'm not convinced that Schroer included the SIU 9 TN 300 to TN 385/Future I-269 new terrain "south side" section in his financial calculations.  Nevertheless, he appears to be committed to completing the near-Kentucky state line to Troy SIU 7 section in a slow-but-steady fashion; in other words, I-69 in Tennessee is not completely dead.




Quote from: hbelkins on January 08, 2013, 12:02:31 PM
Quote from: codyg1985 on January 08, 2013, 11:53:51 AM
I imagine the most expensive part of the Dyersburg to Fulton segment will be reworking the interchange with US 45E at South Fulton, KY.
A flyover northbound and some widening on the southbound ramp ought to knock out the problems at the state line interchange.

I'm not sure Schroer's comments addressed the cost of the state line tie-in, either.  However, I received an email in January from TDOT indicating that Kentucky and Tennessee are currently doing preliminary work on the state line connection:

Quote
TDOT and Kentucky are working together to define the corridor at the state line.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: thefro on February 25, 2013, 09:21:21 AM
Quote from: Grzrd on February 24, 2013, 02:11:19 AM
Quote from: Grzrd on February 12, 2013, 07:41:36 PM
This article (http://www.stategazette.com/story/1937580.html) reports that .... Attendees were also encouraged to attend a Feb. 22 meeting with Tennessee Department of Transportation Commissioner John Schroer

This article (http://www.stategazette.com/story/1944253.html) reports that Schroer estimated in the February 22 meeting that it will take three to four years to complete the section in Union City (excluding paving), and approximately ten years to complete it to Troy:

Quote
Tennessee Department of Transportation Commissioner John Schroer's visit to Dyer County on Friday afternoon was not as painful as some local leaders may have expected ....
Schroer said I-69 projects from both the north and south have begun, with three segments in Union City partially complete. With right-of-way purchases and plans drawn, Schroer said the cost to complete the road to Troy will still take $120 million, half the funds available in the state transportation budget.
"We are committed to getting this section done," said Schroer, who estimates it will take four years to complete the second and third segments of the highway through Union City and a little longer to complete the paving. "We will be following that into Troy."
Schroer expects that leg of the project to take $60 million. Work on that portion, too, will be divided.
"(We will divide that into) two segments," said Schroer. "That will probably take somewhere around a 10-year program."

When that section is complete, Schroer said Tennessee will have the north and south sides of I-69 complete.
"(We will just be) waiting on the middle section," said Schroer, who said that middle section - SIU 8 - consists of 65 miles between Millington and Dyersburg. "(That cost is estimated at) $1.2 billion to 1.5 billion in today's dollars." ....




Quote from: Grzrd on January 16, 2012, 04:31:05 PM
New terrain I-69 from TN 300 to TN 385 is 12.83 miles in length and is projected to cost $99,031,574.
New terrain I-69 from east ... of US 51 near Millington to the Tipton County line is 4.80 miles in length and projected to cost $37,058,429.
Quote from: Grzrd on January 18, 2012, 06:13:53 PM
I emailed a Comment to the Memphis MPO last night about it and received the following reply:
Quote
The LRTP project that includes the I-69/I-269 interchange and the portion of the new highway from US-51 to the interchange is project ID 158: "I-69, East of US-51 near Millington to the Tipton County line. ... This portion of the I-69/I-269 project will connect with the existing SR-385 at US-51 and extend northwest/north to the Tipton County line, with a system interchange (no access to surface streets) where project ID 157: "I-69, SR-300 to SR-385,"  ties in.
Quote
Schroer said Tennessee will have the ... south side ... of I-69 complete.

I'm not convinced that Schroer included the SIU 9 TN 300 to TN 385/Future I-269 new terrain "south side" section in his financial calculations.  Nevertheless, he appears to be committed to completing the near-Kentucky state line to Troy SIU 7 section in a slow-but-steady fashion; in other words, I-69 in Tennessee is not completely dead.

That's key to help justify the I-69 parkway upgrades in Kentucky (helps a bit in Indiana too, but they're going to complete their sections to Indianapolis at this point since SR 37 has the traffic to justify it already).  You can still get interstate access to Memphis from Dyersburg via I-155/I-55.

I don't see any huge urgency to build SIU 8 in the next 10-15 years without dedicated federal money, given the current pace the various other I-69 projects are on.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on February 26, 2013, 08:17:45 AM
Quote from: Grzrd on February 24, 2013, 02:11:19 AM
This article (http://www.stategazette.com/story/1944253.html)
Quote
"We are committed to getting this section done," said Schroer, who estimates it will take four years to complete the second and third segments of the highway through Union City and a little longer to complete the paving. "We will be following that into Troy."
Schroer expects that leg of the project to take $60 million. Work on that portion, too, will be divided.
"(We will divide that into) two segments," said Schroer. "That will probably take somewhere around a 10-year program

A Union City Messenger reporter spoke with Schroer after the February 22 meeting (http://www.nwtntoday.com/news.php?viewStory=80845) and Schroer provided a little more detail about the respective timelines associated with the ten year program to complete I-69 to Troy:

Quote
"We're in the process of starting construction on the second of three phases (of I-69 around Union City). We should do that within the next year to 18 months and when that's completed we'll start on the third section and once those sections are all done, then we'll pave. They are about two-year projects, so I would say somewhere in the next six to eight years the section around Union City will be completed,"  Schroer told The Messenger after Friday's meeting.
"Then you go down to Troy and you've got two more projects there. Those are $30 million projects each and they're probably 36-month projects, so for the completion of the whole area it will be about 10 years,"  he said.

Estimated cost to complete I-69 through Obion County:

Quote
The route through Obion County (from Fulton, Ky., to the southern border of the county) has been estimated to cost from $230 to $300 million.

The article neither mentions projects in the Memphis area nor mentions projects related to the Kentucky state line tie-in.




Quote from: Grzrd on December 01, 2011, 11:03:28 AM
Tennessee and I-69 Coalition officials posing with a "Tennessee" I-69 shield:
http://www.stategazette.com/story/1790054/photo/1584026.html
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FHxhP4.jpg&hash=480d44748ccdcbe7d39e63a27ead54954abd0fac)
Quote from: hbelkins on December 01, 2011, 03:30:22 PM
That Schorer guy looks a lot like Kentucky's governor

Not that it matters, but speaking of Kentucky, I believe the photo's caption had a mistake and that is the Kentucky governor in the photo.  Here is a photo of Schroer from a recent article:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F8zauakC.jpg&hash=15bb9611b1608d9d735c872118baac95e5581126)

Belated nice catch.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on February 27, 2013, 05:26:12 PM
I recently received an email update from TDOT reflecting Commissioner Schroer's comments re SIU 7:

Quote
The focus is to finish what has been started on SIU7.   It is not our intentions to build a road to nowhere so we are going to focus on finishing SIU 7.  This will give us a connection from the Kentucky State line to I-155 at Dyersburg.  We estimate that it could take about 10 years to accomplish this.




Quote from: Grzrd on February 12, 2013, 07:41:36 PM
This article (http://www.dresdenenterprise.com/main.asp?SectionID=2&SubSectionID=27&ArticleID=218) ... reporting on comments made by Eighth District U.S. Rep. Stephen Fincher indicating that construction on the ... Memphis sections of I-69 will proceed:
Quote
... It will cost another $100 million to complete the I-69 project from Memphis to the Mississippi border.
"The problem is between Troy and Memphis,"  Fincher said
Quote from: Grzrd on January 16, 2012, 04:31:05 PM
Memphis MPO has posted its Direction 2040 Long Term Transportation Plan on the Direction 2040 website.  It looks like the new thought is to have all of I-69 from TN 300 to the Tipton County line, and I-269 from the interchange to TN 385, completed by 2020:
http://direction2040.com/library/Draft_Chapter_08%20(Implementation%20Plan).pdf ...
New terrain I-69 from TN 300 to TN 385 is 12.83 miles in length and is projected to cost $99,031,574.
New terrain I-69 from east ... of US 51 near Millington to the Tipton County line is 4.80 miles in length and projected to cost $37,058,429.
Quote from: Grzrd on December 04, 2012, 05:56:39 PM
The Memphis MPO recently approved its Priority List from its November 15 Agenda (http://www.memphismpo.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=89&Itemid=77)
(bottom quote from Tennessee (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=99.msg188898#msg188898) thread, with the post containing an image of the Priority List)

The TDOT email also addresses SIU 9 in Memphis:

Quote
The I-69 projects in Memphis compete with other projects for dollars and there are more projects in the Memphis area than there are dollars.  It will depend on the ranking of I-69 in the list of projects that are important to the  area.

Since the above November 15, 2012 Memphis MPO ranking does not include any I-69 projects, I suspect Congressman Fincher may have been a little too optimistic in his assessment; however, it may be possible for I-69 to bubble up the priority chain in order to come close to meeting the 2020 goal, particularly with Tennessee scheduled to complete all of its other sections of I-269 by 2015 and Mississippi scheduled to complete its portion of I-269 by 2018.




Finally, in regard to SIU 8 (Millington to Dyersburg), the email ventures a best guess as to the respective times when the Final Environmental Impact Statement and Record of Decision may be issued:

Quote
At this time I anticipate the FEIS for SIU 8 will be approved by FHWA this spring followed with the ROD later in the summer of this year.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on February 27, 2013, 08:28:16 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on February 12, 2013, 07:41:36 PM
This article (http://www.dresdenenterprise.com/main.asp?SectionID=2&SubSectionID=27&ArticleID=218) ... reporting on comments made by Eighth District U.S. Rep. Stephen Fincher

Congressman Fincher posted a blog in the Dyersburg State Gazette (http://www.stategazette.com/blogs/1676/entry/51892/) today; interestingly, he looks to Wisconsin as providing a case example of why Tennessee should complete its section of I-69:

Quote
At a time when our economy is sluggish, unemployment is high, budgets are tight and economic opportunities are limited, Tennessee should say YES to prioritizing its limited funds in smart projects that produce maximum economic gains. I-69 is such a project .... Just look at Wisconsin, between 1990 and 2001, 88 percent of the state's new and expanded manufacturing facilities decided to relocate within five miles of the "Corridors 2020" highway. This new highway links the state's key economic centers, illustrating the importance of an easily accessible goods movement infrastructure in business location decisions. Simply put, communities not connected to the interstate system are not considered by businesses as candidates for major industrial or business facilities.
Bottom line, I-69 is a smart project and should be made a priority. It creates opportunities for folks today and generations to come.

I guess he is telling the folks in Dyersburg to keep hanging in there.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: froggie on March 01, 2013, 04:36:05 AM
Wisconsin also chose to pump a good chunk of state money into their Corridors 2020 program.  Even Mississippi did as well, both with their 1987 Highway Program (the main reason they finished their portion of US 78 eons before Alabama) and the Vision 21 follow-up.  Is Tennessee willing to do the same?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: mgk920 on March 01, 2013, 09:58:51 AM
Also, nearly all of Wisconsin's 'Corridors 2020' roads are not interstates, simply important rural two-lane roads that were upgraded to various levels of four lanes since the mid-1980s.  It is at the top of my list of reasons why Wisconsin was able to withstand the recessions of the past couple of decades better than other states, despite all of the state's other warts.

:nod:

Mike
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: HandsomeRob on March 20, 2013, 01:11:28 PM
Google Maps now shows I-69 running along US-51 between Dyersburg and Troy, as well as sections of the new Union City bypass. Is any of this real, or is Google just doing some wishful thinking?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: codyg1985 on March 20, 2013, 01:38:23 PM
Quote from: HandsomeRob on March 20, 2013, 01:11:28 PM
Google Maps now shows I-69 running along US-51 between Dyersburg and Troy, as well as sections of the new Union City bypass. Is any of this real, or is Google just doing some wishful thinking?

This is yet another example of Google being quite overzealous with showing future routes on their maps. See this thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=2001.725) for many more examples.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on March 21, 2013, 12:05:10 AM
Quote from: codyg1985 on March 20, 2013, 01:38:23 PM
Quote from: HandsomeRob on March 20, 2013, 01:11:28 PM
Google Maps now shows I-69 running along US-51 between Dyersburg and Troy, as well as sections of the new Union City bypass. Is any of this real, or is Google just doing some wishful thinking?

This is yet another example of Google being quite overzealous with showing future routes on their maps. See this thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=2001.725) for many more examples.

Speaking of, I sat next to my counterpart from the two westernmost Kentucky highway districts today, who had reported to Google the erroneous marking of I-69 on the Pennyrile Parkway and I-66 on the WK Parkway. He said he got a response from Google that said, in effect, we don't know what you're referring to.

When Google won't even respond in a positive manner to a transportation official reporting an error on their maps, it makes you wonder how important accuracy is to them.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on April 01, 2013, 02:25:17 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on February 27, 2013, 05:26:12 PM
I recently received an email update from TDOT reflecting Commissioner Schroer's comments re SIU 7:
Quote
The focus is to finish what has been started on SIU7.   It is not our intentions to build a road to nowhere so we are going to focus on finishing SIU 7.  This will give us a connection from the Kentucky State line to I-155 at Dyersburg.  We estimate that it could take about 10 years to accomplish this.
Quote from: HandsomeRob on March 20, 2013, 01:11:28 PM
Google Maps now shows I-69 running along US-51 between Dyersburg and Troy, as well as sections of the new Union City bypass. Is any of this real, or is Google just doing some wishful thinking?

I decided to ask TDOT if they had any plans to sign the US 51 freeway between I-155 and Troy as I-69 and suggested that it would be similar to I-69 signage in Mississippi, Kentucky and Texas (and that they could possibly receive some exceptions from current interstate standards).  To make a long story short, TDOT is going to content itself with "Future I-69 Corridor" signage until more work is completed:

Quote
... we have received approval from the Federal Highway Administration to sign the existing corridors as future I-69.  We will review the need to sign a section as more work is completed and connectivity with other sections and facilities warrant signing.    Google made the decision to show I-69 on their maps without input from TDOT.

Are "Future I-69 Corridor" signs currently posted along the US 51 corridor?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on April 01, 2013, 08:22:25 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on April 01, 2013, 02:25:17 PM
Are "Future I-69 Corridor" signs currently posted along the US 51 corridor?

Yes, and they have been since at least the summer of 2006.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.millenniumhwy.net%2FJune_2006_Day_2%2FJune_2006_Day_2-Images%2F45.jpg&hash=a54c587a98dc9e5a19b57a0d23b45f6042cb3cd8)
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on April 16, 2013, 03:59:20 PM
^ Thanks for the photo.




Quote from: Grzrd on February 26, 2013, 08:17:45 AM
A Union City Messenger reporter spoke with Schroer after the February 22 meeting (http://www.nwtntoday.com/news.php?viewStory=80845) and Schroer provided a little more detail about the respective timelines associated with the ten year program to complete I-69 to Troy:
Quote
"We're in the process of starting construction on the second of three phases (of I-69 around Union City). We should do that within the next year to 18 months...

TDOT released its FY 2014-2016 Three Year Plan (http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/documents/FY14.pdf) today and it includes 2.9 miles of FY 2014 construction on I-69 in Obion County from south of US 51 to south of TN 5 (http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/i69/documents/i69.pdf):

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fn8gsJyC.jpg&hash=f552fc37bf79ad8dc3bb1320a7fbf01427e24d8a)

edit

This article (http://www.nwtntoday.com/news.php?viewStory=82930) provides some local details regarding the location of the project:

Quote
... a critical 2.9-mile section of I-69 southwest of Union City has been included in Schroer's three-year transportation plan .... In his transportation plan, the 2.9-mile segment from just south of West Main Street to Highway 51 South near the Hampton Inn will be completed [have construction begin?] in the 2014 fiscal year.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on May 29, 2013, 10:45:50 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on February 27, 2013, 05:26:12 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on December 04, 2012, 05:56:39 PM
The Memphis MPO recently approved its Priority List from its November 15 Agenda (http://www.memphismpo.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=89&Itemid=77)
(quote from Tennessee (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=99.msg188898#msg188898) thread, with the post containing an image of the Priority List) ....
the above November 15, 2012 Memphis MPO ranking does not include any I-69 projects
Quote from: Grzrd on April 16, 2013, 03:59:20 PM
TDOT released its FY 2014-2016 Three Year Plan (http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/documents/FY14.pdf) today and it includes 2.9 miles of FY 2014 construction on I-69 in Obion County from south of US 51 to south of TN 5 (http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/i69/documents/i69.pdf)

The Memphis MPO has posted its 4-25-2013 TPB Meeting Minutes (http://memphismpo.org/sites/default/files/public/TPB%20Meeting%20Minutes%2004.25.2013.pdf) and the Minutes indicate that the MPO wants to investigate whether TDOT intends to apply for a 2013 TIGER grant for a rural section of I-69 (pp. 2-3, 5/5 of pdf):

Quote
3) Memphis MPO Coordinator's Report ....
e. 2013 TIGER Funding Notice
 Criteria and selection process is very similar to previous TIGER funding.
 Obligation deadline of June 2014 is a shorter timeline than before.
Mayor Mark Luttrell asked about the funding match for TIGER grants. Ms. Pragati Srivastava commented that more local or private match is generally better, and that a 50% match was common ....
Other Business ....
d. Mr. Rick McClanahan asked if TDOT had any proposed projects associated with the latest round of TIGER grant funding, including
the possibility of Austin Peay Highway, I-40/I-240 interchange, or I-69 in the rural areas. Mr. Carlos McCloud indicated that TDOT is currently developing a long range transportation plan and he would check if any of the projects were included.

Although I doubt TDOT will use a 2013 TIGER application for an Obion County section of I-69, the question indicates that I-69 may still be on the long-range radar of the Memphis MPO, and possibly be included on MPO Priority Lists in the relatively near future if some progress can be made on I-69 north of Memphis.

edit

Here is a link to USDOT's TIGER Grant page (http://www.dot.gov/tiger).

second edit

Since I made the above post, the Memphis MPO has updated its website. Above, I updated the link to the April 25 Minutes.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on July 01, 2013, 02:49:39 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on February 12, 2013, 07:41:36 PM
This article (http://www.dresdenenterprise.com/main.asp?SectionID=2&SubSectionID=27&ArticleID=218) seems to bring some clarity to Schroer's remarks by reporting on comments made by Eighth District U.S. Rep. Stephen Fincher indicating that construction on the Union City and Memphis sections of I-69 will proceed, but the section between Troy and Memphis is being halted:
Quote
Fincher stated, over the next three or four years, the lower part of the I-69 project will be completed around Union City, which will cost approximately $100 million. It will cost another $100 million to complete the I-69 project from Memphis to the Mississippi border.
"The problem is between Troy and Memphis,"  Fincher said. "All of that area, from what a commissioner told me, will be halted (due to insufficient funding).And to me, that's a problem."
Quote from: lordsutch on June 28, 2013, 12:14:18 AM
it's more the northern part of 8 that isn't really justified based on traffic now (and being stuck with a half-finished SIU 7 that they need to finish to justify the hardly-used stuff that's already built, which they started because it was all that had gotten environmental clearance when they had the money).  SIU 9 has fairly immediate need, and suburban growth is finally getting up towards Covington (hence the TN 14 widening parallel to US 51 to the east), justifying SIU 8 up to the Hatchie River or so - once you get north of there, the towns are effectively bypassed except Dyersburg proper.  And TDOT is probably going to be done with I-269 (except the stub to I-69 at Millington, which is pointless to build except as part of the I-69 contract) before MDOT meets up.
Quote from: lordsutch on June 29, 2013, 02:46:26 AM
SIU 7 and SIU 9 are logical extensions of existing freeways to provide regional connectivity, as is the southern part of SIU 8.
(lordsutch quotes from Interstate 22 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=724.msg229568#msg229568) thread)

In reading the recent discussion about I-69 on the Interstate 22 thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=724.msg228640#msg228640), I started thinking about SIU 8 and whether Commissioner Schroer's announcement that work between Troy and Memphis will be halted due to a lack of funding may make the FHWA hesitant to issue a Record of Decision ("ROD") for SIU 8 (I think a necessary part of a FEIS and/or ROD is a proposed timetable for completion of the project based on realistic financial projections).  That would not necessarily be a bad thing, except for lordsutch's observation that the southern part of SIU 8 currently makes some sense, and I believe it would be nice to have a ROD when the time comes.

Related to lordsutch's observation, I am concerned about the southernmost section of SIU 8, from the I-269 interchange to the Tipton County line, and whether lack of progress on that section could also stall progress on SIU 9. The Memphis MPO's 2011-14 TIP (http://www.memphismpo.org/sites/default/files/public/2011-14%20TIP%20Current%2005.21.13.pdf) included a provison for preliminary engineering work for I-269 from US 51 to the I-69/I-269 interchange, and then for I-69 to the Tipton County line (page 34/184 of pdf):

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F7GaTf47.png&hash=524f3ca1abf03d02043586e1f7b6e6065c49f8bf)

At the time of the 2011-14 TIP, it was anticipated that a ROD would be issued for SIU 8 by the end of 2011, and that preliminary engineering work could begin after the issuance of the ROD.  However, since a ROD still has not been issued, I am guessing that the work was never performed (just my guess). The project is not among the proposed list of projects for the 2014-17 TIP (http://www.memphismpo.org/sites/default/files/public/documents/2014-17-tip/2014-17-tip-project-list-modified-includes-funding.pdf). If the FHWA declines to issue a ROD for SIU 8, then working on SIU 9 may become less attractive to Memphis officials.

Also, as inclusion in the Memphis MPO TIP indicates, work on the I-69 section from the I-269 interchange to the Tipton County line appears to be in the "Memphis pot of money" and possibly not subject to Commissioner Schroer's pronouncement.  It will be interesting to see whether or not FHWA issues a ROD for SIU 8 in the near future.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on August 12, 2013, 06:57:34 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on July 01, 2013, 02:49:39 PM
In reading the recent discussion about I-69 on the Interstate 22 thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=724.msg228640#msg228640), I started thinking about SIU 8 and whether Commissioner Schroer's announcement that work between Troy and Memphis will be halted due to a lack of funding may make the FHWA hesitant to issue a Record of Decision ("ROD") for SIU 8

Slow progress is being made on the SIU 8 Final Environmental Impact Statement ("FEIS").  A recent email from TDOT indicates that the consultant has submitted a copy to TDOT for their review and that it may be available for public comment in early 2014:

Quote
The FEIS is not ready for distribution.   The environmental consultant working on the document has submitted a copy to TDOT to review for approval.  TDOT's review will take about 30 days.  If there are any corrections then it will be returned to the consultant to correct and return to TDOT within 25-30 days.   If there are no corrections then a copy will be forward to FHWA for review.  The FEIS could be ready for the public to review by the first quarter of 2014.

I assume that the FHWA FEIS review would raise any red flags that would prevent the issuance of a ROD.   
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on October 28, 2013, 07:02:43 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on April 16, 2013, 03:59:20 PM
TDOT released its FY 2014-2016 Three Year Plan (http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/documents/FY14.pdf) today and it includes 2.9 miles of FY 2014 construction on I-69 in Obion County from south of US 51 to south of TN 5 (http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/i69/documents/i69.pdf)
Quote from: Grzrd on August 12, 2013, 06:57:34 PM
Slow progress is being made on the SIU 8 Final Environmental Impact Statement ("FEIS").  A recent email from TDOT indicates that the consultant has submitted a copy to TDOT for their review and that it may be available for public comment in early 2014

I emailed TDOT and asked for updates on the anticipated letting date for the Obion County project and on the SIU 8 Final Environmental Impact Statement process.  The response:

Quote
At this time TDOT and FHWA are in the process of reviewing the final Environmental Impact Statement.  I know that both agencies have submitted comments on the document to the consultant to provide additional information. The current anticipated letting date for the SIU  7 project is summer of 2014.

Rollin' down the glacier........ 
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on December 12, 2013, 12:32:13 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on May 22, 2012, 03:07:26 PM
This article (http://www.ucmessenger.com/news.php?viewStory=70661) indicates that Phase 1 construction of Section 4 of SIU 7 near Union City is "nearing completion", but there is no money to proceed with Phase 2 construction:
Quote
However, until federal funding is allocated for the project, the interstate will remain covered with what Harrison called "incidental asphalt."  The final layer of gravel and asphalt paving will have to wait until funding is approved and contracts are signed for the work.
Quote from: Grzrd on February 24, 2013, 02:11:19 AM
This article (http://www.stategazette.com/story/1944253.html)
Quote
"We are committed to getting this section done," said Schroer, who estimates it will take four years to complete the second and third segments of the highway through Union City and a little longer to complete the paving.

I recently noticed that Google Maps has April 2012 imagery that shows significant progress on bridges and ramps.  Here is a view from the Brevard Road overpass (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Union+City,+TN&hl=en&ll=36.448946,-89.072169&spn=0.000701,0.001206&sll=32.678125,-83.178297&sspn=6.009291,9.876709&oq=union+city+tn&t=h&hnear=Union+City,+Obion,+Tennessee&z=20&layer=c&cbll=36.448946,-89.072169&panoid=atnDHRza-Qx-6oGNgZE2uA&cbp=12,4.33,,1,3.8).
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on January 29, 2014, 10:56:02 AM
Quote from: codyg1985 on November 28, 2011, 07:58:57 AM
What I am curious about is how the TN section of I-69 will tie into the Purchase Pkwy with the complication of having the existing interchange with US 45E.
Quote from: Grzrd on January 24, 2014, 01:47:08 PM
KYTC has posted the 2014 Recommended Highway Plan (http://transportation.ky.gov/Program-Management/Pages/2014-Highway-Plan.aspx). The Project Listing (http://transportation.ky.gov/Program-Management/Highway%20Plan/2014RecommendedProjectListing.pdf) page includes "reconstruct and improve" I-69 from the KY/TN state line to milepost 1.66, with preliminary work scheduled to begin 2014 (page 43/139 of pdf)
(bottom quote from I-69 in KY (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3518.msg273651#msg273651) thread)

After seeing the state line work included in Kentucky's Recommended Plan, I emailed TDOT and asked for an update of the situation on their side of the state line.

My question:

Quote
I recently noticed that KYTC has included an I-69 TN/KY state line project in its 2014 Recommended Highway Plan (page 43):
http://transportation.ky.gov/Program-Management/Highway%20Plan/2014RecommendedProjectListing.pdf
With the above project in mind, I assume that TDOT has committed to remaining on the US 51 corridor in that area and upgrading the current interchange in that area.  Is that a safe assumption? If so, has TDOT finalized plans on how to upgrade the US 45E interchange to meet current interstate standards?
My understanding is that Commissioner Schroer has committed to completing I-69 SIU 7 in approximately ten years.

The response:

Quote
I want to thank you for contacting our office about the I-69 project in Obion County.  You ask about the corridor for the section of I-68 [sic] from Union City to the Kentucky line.  This section will follow existing US 51 to the Kentucky Purchase Parkway.  Kentucky is currently work [sic] TDOT on the completion of the environmental reevaluation at the Kentucky line.   The Final Environmental Impact Statement did not identify the connector to the Purchase Parkway so the document has to be reevaluated to include the connector to the Purchase Parkway. 
TDOT has not started developing plans on the upgrade to US 45 E  or US 51.

You are correct that Commissioner Schroer has committed to completing I-69 SIU 7 in approximately ten years.

At least they are doing some preliminary environmental work on the connection.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: lordsutch on January 30, 2014, 04:59:36 AM
That interchange is a little nastier than most of the others, between the combined high school & middle school sitting right by it and the TN 214 interchange immediately to the west. Probably the best you can do at a reasonable price is build a better, 2-lane southbound ramp and a two-lane flyover northbound and divert TN 214 onto a new connector road over to US 45E, removing the existing partial interchange for TN 214.

You probably also need to close or move exit 0 on the Purchase; probably the best solution is a split diamond with frontage roads between KY 166 and US 51, which would also help access to the Walmart on KY 166.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on February 04, 2014, 03:59:36 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on January 29, 2014, 10:56:02 AM
I emailed TDOT and asked for an update of the situation on their side of the state line.
The response:
Quote
I want to thank you for contacting our office about the I-69 project in Obion County ... You are correct that Commissioner Schroer has committed to completing I-69 SIU 7 in approximately ten years.

This TV video report (http://www.wpsdlocal6.com/home/ticker/Tennessee-town-hoping-new-interstate-will-bring-new-business-243430981.html) has some footage of the work in Obion County and confirms the current ten-year timetable;

Quote
People in Union City, Tennessee are hoping that I-69 provides an economic shot in the arm. The superhighway connecting the Canadian border to the Mexican border that will run right through Northwest Tennessee ....
The Tennessee Department of Transportation estimates it could be ten years before the highway is completed because the road isn't being built all at once.
"We try to do it in phases. It's a little more affordable when we do it in phases," TDOT spokesperson Nichole Lawrence said. TDOT also said that the state has spent about 68-million on the Obion County part of I-69 so far.




Quote from: Grzrd on April 16, 2013, 03:59:20 PM
TDOT released its FY 2014-2016 Three Year Plan (http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/documents/FY14.pdf) today and it includes 2.9 miles of FY 2014 construction on I-69 in Obion County from south of US 51 to south of TN 5 (http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/i69/documents/i69.pdf)

The video also reports that the south of US 51 to south of TN 5 project will be let in May, 2014.




Quote from: rte66man on February 19, 2013, 05:27:18 PM
If you've ever been to Union City, the first question that would come to your mind is, "What on earth is there to see from an observation tower?"
(above quote from Memphis and Saint Louis after a bad New Madrid earthquake (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=6535.msg204798#msg204798) thread)

Apparently, the observation tower at Discovery Park of America provides a great view of the I-69 roadwork.  :D
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on February 11, 2014, 02:07:06 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on July 01, 2013, 02:49:39 PM
Quote from: lordsutch on June 29, 2013, 02:46:26 AM
SIU 7 and SIU 9 are logical extensions of existing freeways to provide regional connectivity, as is the southern part of SIU 8.
(lordsutch quote from Interstate 22 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=724.msg229762#msg229762) thread)
In reading the recent discussion about I-69 on the Interstate 22 thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=724.msg228640#msg228640), I started thinking about SIU 8 and whether Commissioner Schroer's announcement that work between Troy and Memphis will be halted due to a lack of funding may make the FHWA hesitant to issue a Record of Decision ("ROD") for SIU 8 (I think a necessary part of a FEIS and/or ROD is a proposed timetable for completion of the project based on realistic financial projections).  That would not necessarily be a bad thing, except for lordsutch's observation that the southern part of SIU 8 currently makes some sense, and I believe it would be nice to have a ROD when the time comes.
Related to lordsutch's observation, I am concerned about the southernmost section of SIU 8, from the I-269 interchange to the Tipton County line, and whether lack of progress on that section could also stall progress on SIU 9 ....
as inclusion in the Memphis MPO TIP indicates, work on the I-69 section from the I-269 interchange to the Tipton County line appears to be in the "Memphis pot of money" and possibly not subject to Commissioner Schroer's pronouncement.

I am a little skeptical about the accuracy of the reporting, but this article (http://wreg.com/2014/02/10/tdot-could-lose-900-million-in-funding/) reports that TDOT is submitting alternative budgets to the state legislature because of the possibility of a loss of federal funding; the budget assuming the presence of federal money reportedly includes I-69 projects in northern Shelby County:

Quote
The Tennessee Department of Transportation's budget could be short $900 million due to a funding shortage on the federal level ....
As congress scrambles to come up with the money TDOT is presenting two budgets to the state.
One project includes
construction like 240 and Airways, the I-69 projects in northern Shelby County, and another budget that basically puts the breaks on road construction because of funding.




Quote from: Grzrd on October 28, 2013, 07:02:43 PM
I emailed TDOT and asked for updates on ... the SIU 8 Final Environmental Impact Statement process.  The response:
Quote
At this time TDOT and FHWA are in the process of reviewing the final Environmental Impact Statement.  I know that both agencies have submitted comments on the document to the consultant to provide additional information.

With the reported northern Shelby County I-69 budget in mind, it would be nice if the SIU 8 FEIS will be made available for public comment in the near future.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Chris on February 11, 2014, 03:33:18 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on December 12, 2013, 12:32:13 PM
I recently noticed that Google Maps has April 2012 imagery that shows significant progress on bridges and ramps.  Here is a view from the Brevard Road overpass (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Union+City,+TN&hl=en&ll=36.448946,-89.072169&spn=0.000701,0.001206&sll=32.678125,-83.178297&sspn=6.009291,9.876709&oq=union+city+tn&t=h&hnear=Union+City,+Obion,+Tennessee&z=20&layer=c&cbll=36.448946,-89.072169&panoid=atnDHRza-Qx-6oGNgZE2uA&cbp=12,4.33,,1,3.8).

Google Earth has November 2013 imagery of Union City. It basically shows the new alignment in the same condition (no asphalt yet). It also shows this new freeway alignment won't improve travel much until it is extended on either side. (in fact, the northern end is in a field).

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FQAEbOF1.jpg&hash=807bc23748cbf9f272cd22d56437b74d8eab0e24)
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on February 21, 2014, 09:44:49 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on October 28, 2013, 07:02:43 PM
I emailed TDOT and asked for updates on ... the SIU 8 Final Environmental Impact Statement process.  The response:
Quote
At this time TDOT and FHWA are in the process of reviewing the final Environmental Impact Statement.  I know that both agencies have submitted comments on the document to the consultant to provide additional information.

Here is an email update from TDOT regarding the SIU 8 FEIS:

Quote
The document will be ready for public viewing in the winter of 2014-15.  It will be published in the Federal Register and the public may comment.  The public will have at least 30 days to comment.  The Record of Decision can't be signed until the Notice of Availability for the FEIS has been published and 30 days has passed.  Comments on the FEIS are addressed in the Record of Decision. 
The current budget does not include any money for I 69 SIU 8 and 9.  We are still waiting on a funding source.   The budget does include money to finish a portion of I-69 in Obion County where the right-of-way has been purchased.

I suppose they are waiting for a funding source to appear in order to plausibly represent a funding stream for SIU 8 that would justify the issuance a Record of Decision.



Quote from: Grzrd on February 14, 2014, 08:59:52 AM
recent Comments (http://www.regulations.gov/#!docketBrowser;rpp=25;po=0;dct=PS;D=FHWA-2013-0050;refD=FHWA-2013-0050-0001) to the Draft Highway Primary Freight Network Plan (http://www.ops.fhwa.dot.gov/freight/infrastructure/pfn/index.htm)
(above quote from I-69 in TX (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3624.msg278379#msg278379) thread)

In its Comments Letter (http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=FHWA-2013-0050-0112), the Memphis MPO writes the following:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F9etxIba.jpg&hash=cbdeccfce6c52b0c29047b118cc6efc17adc8b0a)

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FcIOdCd3.jpg&hash=7989d1a65069e7d2f8b7a6eadd25ca97394e40ca)

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FLf45etD.jpg&hash=953d2f9269916eff85ff6f1ce0799f43b5cf9f53)

Accompanying the Comments Letter is a Comments Map (http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=FHWA-2013-0050-0112):

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F16ALcq1.jpg&hash=2c686b64924b3dd8ceaf1ebcba9d3bc4559fc2ce)

I find it interesting that they included the future, currently unfunded, new terrain I-69 SIU 9 as comprising part of I-269's freight connectivity.  On the other hand, none of SIU 8 (including the little "thumb" within the Memphis MPO boundary) appears on the map as being part of I-269's freight connectivity.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: andy3175 on February 23, 2014, 12:30:48 AM
Has there been any discussion or concurrence on whether I-240 will be retained as a designation along the north-south segment of I-69? I have wondered if an I-69/240 shared alignment makes sense or not. It might be worthwhile to call that segment of freeway I-69 alone, and leave I-240 on the southeastern quadrant of  the Memphis inner belt route (between I-55/69 and I-40 east). Obviously such a decision would become more important once Tennessee decides to sign its portion of I-69 that has been formally accepted/approved.

Regards,
Andy
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: codyg1985 on February 23, 2014, 06:39:34 AM
It would seem they could go ahead and designate I-69 over I-240 to its junction with I-40.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on March 18, 2014, 01:25:04 PM
Quote from: andy3175 on February 23, 2014, 12:30:48 AM
Has there been any discussion or concurrence on whether I-240 will be retained as a designation along the north-south segment of I-69? I have wondered if an I-69/240 shared alignment makes sense or not. It might be worthwhile to call that segment of freeway I-69 alone, and leave I-240 on the southeastern quadrant of  the Memphis inner belt route (between I-55/69 and I-40 east). Obviously such a decision would become more important once Tennessee decides to sign its portion of I-69 that has been formally accepted/approved.
Quote from: codyg1985 on February 23, 2014, 06:39:34 AM
It would seem they could go ahead and designate I-69 over I-240 to its junction with I-40.

I recently had a Q & A with the Memphis MPO:

Quote
Q: In the PFN Comment, a request is also made to include I-69/I-240 in the PFN.  Since I-69 is expressly referenced in the Comment, does the Memphis MPO have any plans to request that TDOT install I-69 signage along I-69/I-55, I-69/I-240, and I-69/I-40?  Related to this question, wouldn't it make sense to drop I-240 from the I-69/I-240 designation?

A: In regards to your question regarding signage, it does not seem appropriate to us to replace all signage until I-69 provides a completed connection to other regions. Ultimately, this decision lies with TDOT as they are the project manager for those roads. Also, regardless of the status of I-69/I-269, the north/south portion of I-40/I-240 that runs through downtown Memphis will still serve as part of that highway and thus would not benefit the wayfinding of drivers by dropping I-240 from the signage.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: mwb1848 on March 19, 2014, 10:36:40 AM
Quote from: Grzrd on March 18, 2014, 01:25:04 PM
Quote from: andy3175 on February 23, 2014, 12:30:48 AM
Has there been any discussion or concurrence on whether I-240 will be retained as a designation along the north-south segment of I-69? I have wondered if an I-69/240 shared alignment makes sense or not. It might be worthwhile to call that segment of freeway I-69 alone, and leave I-240 on the southeastern quadrant of  the Memphis inner belt route (between I-55/69 and I-40 east). Obviously such a decision would become more important once Tennessee decides to sign its portion of I-69 that has been formally accepted/approved.
Quote from: codyg1985 on February 23, 2014, 06:39:34 AM
It would seem they could go ahead and designate I-69 over I-240 to its junction with I-40.

I recently had a Q & A with the Memphis MPO:

Quote
Q: In the PFN Comment, a request is also made to include I-69/I-240 in the PFN.  Since I-69 is expressly referenced in the Comment, does the Memphis MPO have any plans to request that TDOT install I-69 signage along I-69/I-55, I-69/I-240, and I-69/I-40?  Related to this question, wouldn't it make sense to drop I-240 from the I-69/I-240 designation?

A: In regards to your question regarding signage, it does not seem appropriate to us to replace all signage until I-69 provides a completed connection to other regions. Ultimately, this decision lies with TDOT as they are the project manager for those roads. Also, regardless of the status of I-69/I-269, the north/south portion of I-40/I-240 that runs through downtown Memphis will still serve as part of that highway and thus would not benefit the wayfinding of drivers by dropping I-240 from the signage.

Nothing about the numbering or signing of Interstates in the Memphis area seems designed to "benefit the wayfinding of drivers".

These are the people that have signs on NB I-55 at I-240 telling Little Rock traffic to go one way and St Louis traffic to go another only to be re-joined on the other side of the Mississippi River.

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.072348,-90.025701,3a,90y,1.89h,98.18t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sYgo2LYRSQubHfjLOrUiTeA!2e0

An I-240/I-69 joint designation through Downtown would be incredibly redundant.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: NE2 on March 19, 2014, 10:42:47 AM
Quote from: mwb1848 on March 19, 2014, 10:36:40 AM
These are the people that have signs on NB I-55 at I-240 telling Little Rock traffic to go one way and St Louis traffic to go another only to be re-joined on the other side of the Mississippi River.

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.072348,-90.025701,3a,90y,1.89h,98.18t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sYgo2LYRSQubHfjLOrUiTeA!2e0
I can think of several benefits to this (distributing long-distance traffic more equally, avoiding weaving in Arkansas) but chances are they just used the control cities for I-40 and I-55 without thinking.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: mwb1848 on March 19, 2014, 11:07:35 AM
Perhaps I'm just feeling uncharitable toward TDOT.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on April 04, 2014, 12:29:16 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on February 04, 2014, 03:59:36 PM
This TV video report (http://www.wpsdlocal6.com/home/ticker/Tennessee-town-hoping-new-interstate-will-bring-new-business-243430981.html) ....
Quote from: Grzrd on April 16, 2013, 03:59:20 PM
TDOT released its FY 2014-2016 Three Year Plan (http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/documents/FY14.pdf) today and it includes 2.9 miles of FY 2014 construction on I-69 in Obion County from south of US 51 to south of TN 5 (http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/i69/documents/i69.pdf)
The video also reports that the south of US 51 to south of TN 5 project will be let in May, 2014.

TDOT has posted its proposed 2015-17 Three Year Program (http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/news/2014/ThreeYearProgram2015-2017.pdf) and the Region 4 Project Highlights Sheet (https://news.tn.gov/sites/default/files/4-3-14%20Regional%20Fact%20Sheets_0.pdf) describes a 4.9 mile project from west of TN 21 to US 51 budgeted for FY 2017 construction (page 4/4 of pdf):

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fi46q5fn.png&hash=2f2001f0db1d4637ad3524b548f1815e3041ad1e)

Assuming the 2.9 mile project scheduled for May 2014 is let, a FY 2017 letting for the 4.9 mile segment of the Union City US 51 to US 51 "loop" should mean that construction will have started on the entire "loop" in 2017.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on April 26, 2014, 05:04:53 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on April 04, 2014, 12:29:16 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on February 04, 2014, 03:59:36 PM
This TV video report (http://www.wpsdlocal6.com/home/ticker/Tennessee-town-hoping-new-interstate-will-bring-new-business-243430981.html) ....
Quote from: Grzrd on April 16, 2013, 03:59:20 PM
TDOT released its FY 2014-2016 Three Year Plan (http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/documents/FY14.pdf) today and it includes 2.9 miles of FY 2014 construction on I-69 in Obion County from south of US 51 to south of TN 5 (http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/i69/documents/i69.pdf)
The video also reports that the south of US 51 to south of TN 5 project will be let in May, 2014.
TDOT has posted its proposed 2015-17 Three Year Program (http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/news/2014/ThreeYearProgram2015-2017.pdf) and the Region 4 Project Highlights Sheet (https://news.tn.gov/sites/default/files/4-3-14%20Regional%20Fact%20Sheets_0.pdf) describes a 4.9 mile project from west of TN 21 to US 51 budgeted for FY 2017 construction (page 4/4 of pdf)

The south of US 51 to south of TN 5 project is not among the projects listed for the May 23 letting:

http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/construction/2014/letting_052314.htm

I'm a little surprised that the 2.9 mile project is not included in the May 23 letting because I had been really surprised that the 4.9 mile project had been included in the recent "worst-case funding/focus on maintenance" Three Year Plan.  Oh well, what's a few more months in the grand scheme of things?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Avalanchez71 on May 23, 2014, 01:46:13 PM
There is little love for this interstate in Nashville over at the Capitol.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on July 14, 2014, 10:03:03 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on April 26, 2014, 05:04:53 PM
The south of US 51 to south of TN 5 project is not among the projects listed for the May 23 letting:
http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/construction/2014/letting_052314.htm
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on May 23, 2014, 01:46:13 PM
There is little love for this interstate in Nashville over at the Capitol.

The south of US 51 to south of TN 5 project was also not among the projects for the July 11 letting (http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/construction/2014/Notices/notJuly11.pdf) and this article (http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/2014/07/14/tennessee-road-projects-face-delay-funds-cut/12648975/) reports that the project may be pushed back to FY 2015 unless Congress replenishes the Highway Trust Fund:

Quote
The future of 13 Tennessee road-widening projects totaling more than $200 million hangs in the balance as federal funds for the nation's highways could wither in August.
Unless Congress intervenes with a federal allocation to refresh the Highway Trust Fund, federal transportation leaders will start cutting money sent to state agencies by Aug. 1, triggering cutbacks in states' road projects.
In Tennessee, TDOT Commissioner John Schroer has set a list of 13 road projects the agency originally planned to launch in fiscal year 2014 but is now pushing back to 2015 because of the highway funding crisis ....
Other projects facing delay include the $66.4 million construction on Interstate 69 in Obion County ...
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on July 15, 2014, 12:35:00 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on July 14, 2014, 10:03:03 PM
this article (http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/2014/07/14/tennessee-road-projects-face-delay-funds-cut/12648975/):
Quote
Other projects facing delay include the $66.4 million construction on Interstate 69 in Obion County ...

I recently asked TDOT about the approximate $22 million per mile estimated cost for the project and the response is as follows:

Quote
The project that was listed in this story was Obion County I-69 From South of SR 3 (US 51) to South of SR 5, approximately 2.9 miles in length ....
we are doing a grade and drain project first;  then coming back later with a paving project (except for the county roads and we will be doing the paving those connections).  Yes-- there are several large structures and retaining walls that will substantially increase the cost for this project.  Normally I give an "estimate"  of approximately 10M a mile for an interstate type facility.  But interchanges and structures always increase the costs.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on July 18, 2014, 06:11:56 PM
This article (http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/local-news/delayed-welcome-i55-visitors-center-in-memphis-still-missing_06595274) reports that a revised Welcome Center along northbound I-55/(currently unsigned) I-69 in Memphis (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Whitehaven,+Memphis,+TN/@35.0412105,-90.0050227,851m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x87d5634afb98f3db:0x9e1c9424014bf780) is about to go to bid again:

Quote
Northbound interstate travelers through Memphis have a little tougher time than other motorists finding a restroom after crossing into Tennessee, learning about local attractions or asking questions of locals.
Tennessee's I-55 Welcome Center in Whitehaven, demolished several years ago, has yet to be replaced. The 14 acres sit empty except for artist's Tom Wuchina's Pyradoptics, a sculpture of 100 posts that seem to change colors for those in passing vehicles.
The Tennessee Department of Transportation unveiled plans in 2010 to replace the aging welcome center there with a facility that would generate as much or more energy than it consumed.
The building would be the first owned by the state to be a "net-zero energy'' facility.

The budget is $3.75 million total, including $1.8 million for the building. But last summer the low bid for the new structure came in at $3.4 million. The state asked architects to redesign the structure with intentions of seeking a new round of bids.
Construction documents are with the state fire marshal's office awaiting approval, TDOT spokesman Nichole Lawrence said. Once the fire marshal signs off, the project will go to bid again.
"The revised design is more efficient by consolidating some building spaces, while preserving all of the restroom and tourism capacity anticipated with the completion of the I-69 corridor,"
said David Roberson, spokesman for the Tennessee Department of General Services.
The state still intends for the new welcome center to be the first net-zero energy building Tennessee owns. Solar panels will be installed on the roof.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on August 06, 2014, 12:27:23 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on July 14, 2014, 10:03:03 PM
The south of US 51 to south of TN 5 project was also not among the projects for the July 11 letting (http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/construction/2014/Notices/notJuly11.pdf) and this article (http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/2014/07/14/tennessee-road-projects-face-delay-funds-cut/12648975/) reports that the project may be pushed back to FY 2015 unless Congress replenishes the Highway Trust Fund

Since Congress provided a Highway Trust Fund "patch" until May, 2015, I emailed TDOT to ask about the anticipated letting date for this project and they responded that it is currently on track to be let in the December 5 letting.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on November 17, 2014, 11:26:54 AM
Quote from: Grzrd on November 04, 2014, 04:10:26 PM
Due to uncertainties associated with federal funding, TDOT Commissioner Schroer has delayed several projects, including construction of the I-55/Crump Boulevard interchange and ROW acquisition on the Lamar Corridor.  Here is a list of the projects delayed from FY 2015 to FY 2106 (http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/documents/funding/Statusof13ShiftedProjects-10-30-14.pdf) and a letter from Schroer to the Tennessee General Assembly (http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/documents/funding/HwyTrustFundandDelayedProjectsLetterOct%2024-2014.pdf) explaining his decision.
It looks like projects in Tennessee will continue to be delayed until the U.S. Congress enacts the next multi-year reauthorization.
(above quote from Tennessee (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=99.msg2018016#msg2018016) thread)
Quote from: Grzrd on August 06, 2014, 12:27:23 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on July 14, 2014, 10:03:03 PM
The south of US 51 to south of TN 5 project was also not among the projects for the July 11 letting (http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/construction/2014/Notices/notJuly11.pdf) and this article (http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/2014/07/14/tennessee-road-projects-face-delay-funds-cut/12648975/) reports that the project may be pushed back to FY 2015 unless Congress replenishes the Highway Trust Fund
Since Congress provided a Highway Trust Fund "patch" until May, 2015, I emailed TDOT to ask about the anticipated letting date for this project and they responded that it is currently on track to be let in the December 5 letting.

After noticing that the south of US 51 to south of TN 5 project is not included in the December 5 letting (http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/construction/2014/Notices/notDec5.pdf), I emailed TDOT to find out the new projected letting date, which is August, 2015:

Quote
... this project has now been placed in the August 2015 Letting. As I have stated before, that is dependent on the availability of funding.

I get the distinct impression that TDOT will continue to push back work on I-69 in Obion County until a new multi-year reauthorization is enacted.  After the mid-term elections, I had read some articles indicating that it would be realistic to hope that the two parties could agree on a new reauthorization in order to show the country that they can accomplish something.  However, this November 10 Washington Post article (http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/can-a-new-congress-bail-out-transportation-in-5-months/2014/11/10/2cb84e60-6832-11e4-9fb4-a622dae742a2_story.html) provides a gloomier assessment that a new reauthorization bill may not occur until after the next President is sworn in in 2017:

Quote
While transportation committees in the House and the Senate may now work with greater harmony to craft a transportation policy bill, it will fall to the finance committees to come up with the money.
"I don't know if the election has changed things that dramatically on the funding side, the revenue side,"  said Jim Tymon of the American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials (AASHTO). "I don't think it provided a clear path forward, either."
Tymon, until recently the staff director for the House transportation committee, played an integral role in drafting the past three transportation bills.
Given that a new Congress takes time to get organized, Tymon says that unless House Speaker John A. Boehner (R-Ohio) and incoming Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) agree to make a transportation bill a top priority, "it's going to be tough for them to meet this end-of-May deadline."
"If they were just dealing with policy, this is definitely an area where Congress and the administration could cut a deal in the first five months of the year,"  Tymon said. "But the $100 billion question is, how do they pay for it?"  ....
A longtime observer of the process predicted that the most likely outcome when the May deadline rolls around is another extension with a patchwork of additional funding sources, something less than the six-year bill state officials say is vital if they are to make decisions about multi-year projects.

"Either you're doing a short-term extension through the end of the [2015] fiscal year or through the end of the calendar year,"  said the observer, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he is involved in the discussions, "or Congress just says, "˜We can find two years of money for you; we're going to a more streamlined authorization bill that extends the programs for two years with minimal policy changes. We'll see you back here in 2017.'­ "

The possible delay on a multi-year reauthorization probably means no progress on I-69 In Obion County for a long time.

edit

Quote from: Grzrd on February 21, 2014, 09:44:49 PM
Here is an email update from TDOT regarding the SIU 8 FEIS:
Quote
The document will be ready for public viewing in the winter of 2014-15 ... The current budget does not include any money for I 69 SIU 8 and 9.  We are still waiting on a funding source.   The budget does include money to finish a portion of I-69 in Obion County where the right-of-way has been purchased.
I suppose they are waiting for a funding source to appear in order to plausibly represent a funding stream for SIU 8 that would justify the issuance a Record of Decision.

I also suspect that a SIU 8 Final Environmental Impact Statement will not be issued until a new multi-year reauthorization is passed.  If so, and if time marches on, will the current Draft Environmental Impact Statement have to be scrapped and the environmental process have to be restarted?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on December 29, 2014, 03:02:53 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 08, 2013, 12:02:31 PM
Quote from: codyg1985 on January 08, 2013, 11:53:51 AM
I imagine the most expensive part of the Dyersburg to Fulton segment will be reworking the interchange with US 45E at South Fulton, KY.
Only thing I've ever noticed that is not up to Interstate standards, besides the interchange, is the U-turn required for northbound US 51/45W traffic to access Ken-Tenn Road, TN Secondary (mumble) and the obvious old routing of US 51/45W.
A flyover northbound and some widening on the southbound ramp ought to knock out the problems at the state line interchange.

This article (http://www.reporter-times.com/slow-ride-to-mexico-states-face-obstacles-in-effort-to/article_96738df2-e99f-5a10-b45a-13288aac9755.html) examines the progress (or lack thereof) being made on I-69 in six different states.  In regard to Tennessee, the article quotes Steve Chipman, TDOT's I-69 Project Manager, as saying that TDOT is actively working on the plans for the tie-in to the Purchase Parkway, and it also includes Chipman's assessment of the impact of lack of progress on SIU 8:

Quote
Tennessee is in a holding pattern when it comes to I-69. The state has made some progress near its borders with Kentucky and Mississippi, but the middle section is a long way from being complete ....
Nichole Lawrence, spokeswoman for the Tennessee Department of Transportation ....
estimates completing I-69 in Tennessee will cost about $2 billion. She said the state's transportation department operates on an annual budget of about $980 million.
Despite the gap in the middle of the state, progress has been made at either end. The entire I-69 route from Canada to Mexico is broken up into sections of independent utility, which are referred to as SIUs. Tennessee has acquired all the right of way needed for SIU 7, which stretches from the Kentucky border to Dyersburg. The state is working on plans to tie into Kentucky's Purchase Parkway, said Steve Chipman, I-69 project manager in Tennessee.
SIU 8, stretching from Dyersburg to Millington
, has been broken up into 13 smaller projects. Some of those have been completed, but others have been postponed due to a lack of funding, Chipman said.
Dyersburg to Millington is new construction, and there has been some resistance from people along that route, but most of the criticism relates to time, Chipman said.
"Overall, the resistance is to how long it will take," he said. "It takes a long time."
Part of that impatience comes from the benefits expected from the interstate's construction. For example, Lauderdale County is between two areas that are growing, Chipman said. In this rural area, hospitals have closed and potential new businesses have passed it over because it lacks interstate access, he said.

The areas around Memphis, to the south, however, are dealing with the opposite problem. The areas around the city are growing, and it's also a major freight route, which creates a lot of traffic ....
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on January 19, 2015, 03:12:35 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on January 19, 2015, 02:12:41 PM
materials from a January 14, 2015 I-69 Texas Status Update Briefing (http://i69texasalliance.com/resource.html). .... One of the materials from the January 14 presentation is a Status of National I-69 System map (http://i69texasalliance.com/ResourcesPDFs/I69.National_Status_Map.July2014.pdf)
(above quote from I-69 in TX (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3624.msg2035563#msg2035563) thread)

In regard to I-69 in Tennessee, the National I-69 System map includes TN 385 and US 51 from Dyersburg to just south of Union City as part of the "Existing I-69 system":

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F1kZeUJD.png&hash=d9ec109511271cfe0026d3373d241b11f52e7bb5)

and includes a graph showing that 62 of Tennessee's 171 miles of I-69 are open to traffic:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Ff3u9jDe.png&hash=cf2ca7c22d8a96d362eb047783c142978d0ba872)

I believe that the TN 385 and US 51 sections included in the map as part of the I-69 system are interstate-grade construction, but I am unaware of FHWA having designated those sections as I-69 (US 51) and/or I-269 (TN 385).  Are these sections part of the "unsigned I-69" in Tennessee?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: codyg1985 on January 20, 2015, 06:37:26 AM
They are unsigned, but have future I-69 or I-269 signs up. Ditto for I-69 through midtown Memphis. I am not sure when TDOT will post legit I-69 or I-269 shields. Maybe they will once I-269 opens to MS 302 later this year.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: lordsutch on January 20, 2015, 04:29:47 PM
Quote from: codyg1985 on January 20, 2015, 06:37:26 AM
They are unsigned, but have future I-69 or I-269 signs up. Ditto for I-69 through midtown Memphis. I am not sure when TDOT will post legit I-69 or I-269 shields. Maybe they will once I-269 opens to MS 302 later this year.

Technically they're Future I-69 (or I-269) Corridor signs, not NC-style "Future I-73/74" shields.

As of two weeks ago there's not any paving done at all on the ramps at future I-269 and US 72, just grading, and the overpasses are still incomplete, so if TDOT is opening that segment sometime this year they're going to have to get the lead out.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on March 23, 2015, 12:38:18 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on November 17, 2014, 11:26:54 AM
After noticing that the south of US 51 to south of TN 5 project is not included in the December 5 letting (http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/construction/2014/Notices/notDec5.pdf), I emailed TDOT to find out the new projected letting date, which is August, 2015:
Quote
... this project has now been placed in the August 2015 Letting. As I have stated before, that is dependent on the availability of funding.
I get the distinct impression that TDOT will continue to push back work on I-69 in Obion County until a new multi-year reauthorization is enacted

AASHTO has posted "Nation at a Crossroads" (https://invest.transportation.org/), an infographic that makes the case for Congress to get its act together and pass a long-term highway reauthorization bill that will allow state DOTs to plan and build new major highway projects.  New terrain construction for I-69 SIU 7 (I-155 to KY state line) is included as one of Tennessee's five "critical projects" that could be addressed with a reauthorization:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FpY1NE26.png&hash=8deeede71b6b04e4aaa1f74724802affbfcc82db)

I also assume that passage of a long-term reauthorization would increase the chances of TDOT at least pursuing a Record of Decision for I-69 SIU 8 (Millington to I-155).
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: codyg1985 on March 25, 2015, 09:10:05 AM
Some of those "critical ptojects" seem to be nothing more than widening arterial roads that would benefit local motorists only.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: NE2 on March 25, 2015, 09:58:38 AM
I can't make that site work in Firefox or IE.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on April 10, 2015, 10:06:16 AM
Quote from: Grzrd on January 29, 2014, 10:56:02 AM
After seeing the state line work included in Kentucky's Recommended Plan, I emailed TDOT and asked for an update of the situation on their side of the state line ....
The response:
Quote
.... You are correct that Commissioner Schroer has committed to completing I-69 SIU 7 in approximately ten years.
Quote from: Grzrd on April 04, 2014, 12:29:16 PM
TDOT has posted its proposed 2015-17 Three Year Program (http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/news/2014/ThreeYearProgram2015-2017.pdf) and the Region 4 Project Highlights Sheet (https://news.tn.gov/sites/default/files/4-3-14%20Regional%20Fact%20Sheets_0.pdf) describes a 4.9 mile project from west of TN 21 to US 51 budgeted for FY 2017 construction (page 4/4 of pdf):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fi46q5fn.png&hash=2f2001f0db1d4637ad3524b548f1815e3041ad1e)

TDOT has posted its Fiscal Years 2016 - 2018 Proposed Comprehensive Multimodal Program (http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/documents/ThreeYearProgram-TDOT-2016-2018.pdf) and construction for the 4.9 mile project from west of TN 21 to US 51 has been pushed back to FY 2018:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FZyelE88.png&hash=38dcee70d135367a838c76b1cf06f6357d0cf192)

It sure would be nice to have a long-term reauthorization to help TDOT fulfill Commissioner Schroer's commitment to finish I-69 SIU 7 in approximately ten years.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on May 25, 2015, 09:42:20 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on February 12, 2013, 07:41:36 PM
This article (http://www.dresdenenterprise.com/main.asp?SectionID=2&SubSectionID=27&ArticleID=218) seems to bring some clarity to Schroer's remarks by reporting on comments made by Eighth District U.S. Rep. Stephen Fincher indicating that construction on the Union City and Memphis sections of I-69 will proceed, but the section between Troy and Memphis is being halted:
Quote
"Memphis is where everything is coming together. You've got the rail, the air, the water and the roads. The problem is the bridge that's going to be built over the Mississippi River. That's a funding problem. They're talking about a toll. They're talking about a lot of things. We are all for I-69. We're working every day to secure more funding."  ....
Fincher stated ... It will cost another $100 million to complete the I-69 project from Memphis to the Mississippi border.

This April 24, 2015 article (http://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/news/2015/04/24/congressman-cohen-introduces-two-aerotropolis.html) reports that U.S. Congressman Steve Cohen has introduced two aerotropolis-related bills that, if passed, could provide quasi-dedicated funding for both I-69 (presumably the $100 million Memphis section) and the Southern Gateway [Third] bridge (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3523.msg86336#msg86336):

Quote
Thursday, U.S. Congressman Steve Cohen introduced two bills that aim at boosting the development of aerotropolis transportation systems in Memphis and throughout the country.
Aerotropolis refers to the perspective of urban development focused on promoting diverse development surrounding airports ....
Cohen's Aerotropolis Act of 2015 and the Leading and Expediting Aerotropolis Development (LEAD) Act of 2015 work to speed the development of aerotropolis projects to help enhance economic competitiveness and spur job growth in cities like Memphis.
"The Memphis Aerotropolis is both a transportation network and an economic development engine for the Mid-South,"  Cohen said. "With the need to ship and receive goods quickly and efficiently growing by the day, establishing aerotropolis transportation systems in Memphis and across the country will kick-start economic growth, create jobs, improve our freight transportation network and enable us to compete more effectively in the modern global economy."
Cohen's Aerotropolis Act of 2015 would amend the Safe, Accountable, Flexible, Efficient Transportation Act: A Legacy for Users (SAFETEA—LU) to clarify that aerotropolis-related projects are eligible to receive funds under the Projects of National and Regional Significance Program.
The program funds projects with significant national economic benefits that cannot be funded through traditional funding mechanisms. The development of many aerotropolis transportation systems throughout the country is slowed because of a lack of funding for pre-construction activities, Cohen said.
The Leading and Expediting Aerotropolis Development (LEAD) Act of 2015 would establish a grant program to provide funding assistance to local entities for the planning, design, environmental review, and land acquisition for aerotropolis transportation system projects.
By providing a small influx of money in the pre-construction phase, the bill would help localities dramatically expedite project delivery, enhance U.S. competitiveness, and create jobs, Cohen said.
Both measures have the potential to help fund the Third Bridge, I-69 and I-22/78 Corridor projects.

Above said, I suspect that, of the three above-listed projects, the Lamar [I-22/78] Corridor (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=15376.msg2064442#msg2064442) would be first in line for any funding resulting from the two bills; however, the $100 million price tag for I-69 is relatively cheap compared to the price tags for the other two projects (although simply advancing the environmental process for the Southern Gateway should not be terribly expensive).
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Wayward Memphian on May 28, 2015, 11:22:54 AM
Memphis needed the southern gateway bridge 20 years ago and a northern gateway bridge that ties I-555/I-55 and TN 385/I-69 together.  Oh well, one can dream
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: lordsutch on May 28, 2015, 07:16:54 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if when the Memphis & Arkansas is closed for the Crump interchange rebuild that TDOT and AHTD "discover" that it's cheaper to rebuild it than repair it. We already know it can't be retrofitted; they pretty much expect it to fall in the river whenever New Madrid decides to finally go off, along with the other bridges next to it.

An earthquake-proofed Southern Gateway would be nice but until M&A falls into the river I'm not sure anyone will make it a real priority. I don't think a northern crossing is needed as well, though; unlike St Louis the metro area just doesn't generate enough traffic to justify a crossing up there too.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on May 29, 2015, 05:00:09 PM
Personally, once the Union City bypass connects with the Purchase Parkway, they should slap on Interstate 69 shields from Interstate 155's terminus to Interstate 24. It probably won't happen that fast, and it will need approval. But in a perfect world, that's what I think should happen.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: froggie on May 30, 2015, 07:44:52 AM
That would still require a freeway-grade connection at the south end of the Purchase Pkwy.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: thefro on May 31, 2015, 08:14:09 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on May 29, 2015, 05:00:09 PM
Personally, once the Union City bypass connects with the Purchase Parkway, they should slap on Interstate 69 shields from Interstate 155's terminus to Interstate 24. It probably won't happen that fast, and it will need approval. But in a perfect world, that's what I think should happen.

Kentucky's going to have the Purchase Parkway signed as I-69 well before TN completes the Union City bypass, and probably all the work done there as well.

There was one report a month ago that we would see I-69 signs on the Purchase Parkway later this year (http://www.wpsdlocal6.com/story/28792197/purchase-parkway-transitioning-to-i-69).
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Wayward Memphian on May 31, 2015, 07:50:24 PM
Quote from: froggie on May 30, 2015, 07:44:52 AM
That would still require a freeway-grade connection at the south end of the Purchase Pkwy.

Explain I-49 in Northwest Arkansas, as there's a section that's not freeway to the Missouri line.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: lordsutch on May 31, 2015, 09:23:52 PM
Note that in NW Ark they're not signing I-49 through Bella Vista; the designation just ends with the freeway.

Given the short substandard section in question, FHWA might let them get away with I-69 signing on an interim basis if the median crossings are closed (particularly the one on the west leg of the interchange), but I think they'd want to see plans at least for I-69 to become the mainline route.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on June 10, 2015, 10:27:48 AM
Quote from: Grzrd on November 17, 2014, 11:26:54 AM
After noticing that the south of US 51 to south of TN 5 project is not included in the December 5 letting (http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/construction/2014/Notices/notDec5.pdf), I emailed TDOT to find out the new projected letting date, which is August, 2015:
Quote
... this project has now been placed in the August 2015 Letting. As I have stated before, that is dependent on the availability of funding.
Quote from: Grzrd on April 10, 2015, 10:06:16 AM
It sure would be nice to have a long-term reauthorization to help TDOT fulfill Commissioner Schroer's commitment to finish I-69 SIU 7 in approximately ten years.

In a mild surprise since Congress only approved a two-month funding patch through July 31 instead of a long-term reauthorization, TDOT has announced (http://wkms.org/post/tdot-makes-progress-i-69-future-funding-uncertain) that it will have a letting for the south of US 51 to south of TN 5 project this year:

Quote
The Tennessee Department of Transportation says they will have a contract letting for construction on a portion of I-69 in northwest Tennessee will begin this year.
T-DOT Spokeswoman Nichole Lawrence said funding is secured for grade and drainage construction along a section of the planned route between US-51 and State Route 5 near Union City. But she said TDOT can't make plans for the other sections since money from the Federal Highway Trust Fund is only secured through July.

Maybe they will get I-69 SIU 7 done within ten years .......
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: lordsutch on June 10, 2015, 09:15:27 PM
An excuse to go up the elevator at Discovery Park again in a couple of years for more photos...

Shame it *still* won't be a useful bypass of the Union City commercial strip until they build the eastward extension to the existing freeway, section 5 (and pave the other sections of course). Still not sure what TDOT was thinking when they avoided using the north side of the existing bypass.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: codyg1985 on June 11, 2015, 08:06:24 AM
Quote from: lordsutch on June 10, 2015, 09:15:27 PM
An excuse to go up the elevator at Discovery Park again in a couple of years for more photos...

Shame it *still* won't be a useful bypass of the Union City commercial strip until they build the eastward extension to the existing freeway, section 5 (and pave the other sections of course). Still not sure what TDOT was thinking when they avoided using the north side of the existing bypass.

The road itself would have been fine to convert to a freeway, but the interchanges would have been difficult to work in. Plus, the area around TN 22 would be a non-conventional interchange due to not only having an interchange with TN 22, but also having to divert I-69 from the US 51 alignment in that area to avoid the commercial strip.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Avalanchez71 on June 11, 2015, 01:23:59 PM
Open commercial strip = folks engaged in local commerce.  a bypassed commercial strip = folks bypassing local commerce.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Scott5114 on June 11, 2015, 03:25:55 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on June 11, 2015, 01:23:59 PM
Open commercial strip = folks engaged in local commerce.  a bypassed commercial strip = folks bypassing local commerce.

So folks engaged in other commerce should have to slow down and wait for the local commerce people, whose local commerce is likewise delayed by people passing through town with no need or interest in stopping?

Can't say I've ever been passing through a town and stopped at the Ace Hardware on a whim. Or anywhere other than food/gas, really.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: lordsutch on June 11, 2015, 03:52:21 PM
Quote from: codyg1985 on June 11, 2015, 08:06:24 AM
The road itself would have been fine to convert to a freeway, but the interchanges would have been difficult to work in. Plus, the area around TN 22 would be a non-conventional interchange due to not only having an interchange with TN 22, but also having to divert I-69 from the US 51 alignment in that area to avoid the commercial strip.

There is no commercial strip (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Union+City,+TN+38261/@36.4412138,-89.0348039,6044m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x887911ca3ae6c77b:0x45c7d08fa317af07!6m1!1e1) at the TN 22 interchange; all the commercial frontage is at the southern end of the bypass. The bypass is partially access-controlled with just a few at-grades - there's even a frontage road. Last I went through that part some of it was even signed at 70 mph!

All you'd need is a folded diamond at TN 21 and a local access interchange where you'd bend from the US 51 bypass to the I-69 alignment west of Discovery Park. Close the rest of the at-grades in between and you'd save a boatload of money.

Edit: Illustrating my point here. (https://www.flickr.com/photos/lordsutch/18718932211/in/photostream/lightbox/)
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Avalanchez71 on June 11, 2015, 09:07:07 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 11, 2015, 03:25:55 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on June 11, 2015, 01:23:59 PM
Open commercial strip = folks engaged in local commerce.  a bypassed commercial strip = folks bypassing local commerce.

So folks engaged in other commerce should have to slow down and wait for the local commerce people, whose local commerce is likewise delayed by people passing through town with no need or interest in stopping?

Can't say I've ever been passing through a town and stopped at the Ace Hardware on a whim. Or anywhere other than food/gas, really.

I have stopped at a few stores to see what I can find on the clearance racks and items that have been marked out of stock but still desirable doing just that.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Scott5114 on June 12, 2015, 12:15:47 AM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on June 11, 2015, 09:07:07 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 11, 2015, 03:25:55 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on June 11, 2015, 01:23:59 PM
Open commercial strip = folks engaged in local commerce.  a bypassed commercial strip = folks bypassing local commerce.

So folks engaged in other commerce should have to slow down and wait for the local commerce people, whose local commerce is likewise delayed by people passing through town with no need or interest in stopping?

Can't say I've ever been passing through a town and stopped at the Ace Hardware on a whim. Or anywhere other than food/gas, really.

I have stopped at a few stores to see what I can find on the clearance racks and items that have been marked out of stock but still desirable doing just that.

I can assure you that you're far from typical. The typical driver has a destination they want to get to and slowing down to go through a town is a frustration, not a chance to jump at some trinket store.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: codyg1985 on June 12, 2015, 06:59:39 AM
Quote from: lordsutch on June 11, 2015, 03:52:21 PM
Quote from: codyg1985 on June 11, 2015, 08:06:24 AM
The road itself would have been fine to convert to a freeway, but the interchanges would have been difficult to work in. Plus, the area around TN 22 would be a non-conventional interchange due to not only having an interchange with TN 22, but also having to divert I-69 from the US 51 alignment in that area to avoid the commercial strip.

There is no commercial strip (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Union+City,+TN+38261/@36.4412138,-89.0348039,6044m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x887911ca3ae6c77b:0x45c7d08fa317af07!6m1!1e1) at the TN 22 interchange; all the commercial frontage is at the southern end of the bypass. The bypass is partially access-controlled with just a few at-grades - there's even a frontage road. Last I went through that part some of it was even signed at 70 mph!

All you'd need is a folded diamond at TN 21 and a local access interchange where you'd bend from the US 51 bypass to the I-69 alignment west of Discovery Park. Close the rest of the at-grades in between and you'd save a boatload of money.

Edit: Illustrating my point here. (https://www.flickr.com/photos/lordsutch/18718932211/in/photostream/lightbox/)

That would be easier than using the entirety of the bypass, and for some reason I didn't think of a folded diamond at TN 22 interchange. It would have been nice if all of the bypass could be used, though.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on June 12, 2015, 03:54:23 PM
Is state highway 22 still planned to become an 3 digit Interstate 69 spur?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: froggie on June 13, 2015, 11:49:49 AM
QuoteIs state highway 22 still planned to become an 3 digit Interstate 69 spur?

Local politicians would like it, but there are no firm plans that I'm aware of.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on August 01, 2015, 01:28:33 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on November 17, 2014, 11:26:54 AM
After noticing that the south of US 51 to south of TN 5 project is not included in the December 5 letting (http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/construction/2014/Notices/notDec5.pdf), I emailed TDOT to find out the new projected letting date, which is August, 2015:
Quote
... this project has now been placed in the August 2015 Letting. As I have stated before, that is dependent on the availability of funding.
Quote from: Grzrd on June 10, 2015, 10:27:48 AM
In a mild surprise since Congress only approved a two-month funding patch through July 31 instead of a long-term reauthorization, TDOT has announced (http://wkms.org/post/tdot-makes-progress-i-69-future-funding-uncertain) that it will have a letting for the south of US 51 to south of TN 5 project this year
Quote from: lordsutch on June 10, 2015, 09:15:27 PM
An excuse to go up the elevator at Discovery Park again in a couple of years for more photos...

Don't book your reservations quite yet. The south of US 51 to south of TN 5 project is not included in TDOT's August 28 letting (https://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/Const_August2015_Notice.pdf).  As reported in this article (http://www.deseretnews.com/article/765678458/Congress-passes-3-month-highway-transit-aid-patch.html), Congress failed to pass a long-term reauthorization by July 31 and instead passed a three-month "patch":

Quote
Congress sent President Barack Obama a three-month bill to keep highway and transit money flowing to states on Thursday, one day before the deadline for a cutoff of funds.
Earlier in the day, the Senate passed a sweeping, long-term transportation bill, setting up discussions with the House this fall on what the future course of transportation policy should be and how to pay for programs ....
Lawmakers said they hope the 3-month patch – the 34th short-term transportation extension since 2009 – will be Congress' last. It extends the government's authority to process aid payments to states through Oct. 29. Without congressional action, that authority would have expired at midnight Friday.

Despite TDOT's announcement, I'm not convinced that they will let the project in the absence of a long-term reauthorization. I'm also not convinced that Congress will pass a long-term reauthorization by October 29. Could be a long wait.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on August 25, 2015, 02:50:52 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on February 12, 2013, 07:41:36 PM
This article (http://www.dresdenenterprise.com/main.asp?SectionID=2&SubSectionID=27&ArticleID=218) ... reporting on comments made by Eighth District U.S. Rep. Stephen Fincher indicating that construction on the ... Memphis sections of I-69 will proceed:
Quote
... It will cost another $100 million to complete the I-69 project from Memphis to the Mississippi border.
"The problem is between Troy and Memphis,"  Fincher said
Quote from: Grzrd on February 27, 2013, 08:28:16 PM
Congressman Fincher posted a blog in the Dyersburg State Gazette (http://www.stategazette.com/blogs/1676/entry/51892/) today; interestingly, he looks to Wisconsin as providing a case example of why Tennessee should complete its section of I-69:
Quote
At a time when our economy is sluggish, unemployment is high, budgets are tight and economic opportunities are limited, Tennessee should say YES to prioritizing its limited funds in smart projects that produce maximum economic gains. I-69 is such a project .... Just look at Wisconsin, between 1990 and 2001, 88 percent of the state's new and expanded manufacturing facilities decided to relocate within five miles of the "Corridors 2020" highway. This new highway links the state's key economic centers, illustrating the importance of an easily accessible goods movement infrastructure in business location decisions. Simply put, communities not connected to the interstate system are not considered by businesses as candidates for major industrial or business facilities.
Bottom line, I-69 is a smart project and should be made a priority. It creates opportunities for folks today and generations to come.

This article (http://wkms.org/post/congressman-fincher-says-tn-shouldnt-raise-gas-tax-i-69-project) reports Congressman Fincher as saying that I-69 is an economic necessity for western Tennessee and that it will change the whole southeast forever; however, he will not support a gas tax increase to help get it built:

Quote
Tennessee's 8th district Congressman Stephen Fincher says the construction of Interstate 69 is critical to the western part of the state, but says his support falls short of increasing the gas tax ....
Fincher says it's an economic necessity for western Tennessee to get I-69 built.  And although part of the project is federally funded, he would not support a raise in the gas tax to fund the state' end.
"All of the bureaucratic problems that we have, all of the regulatory problems that cost so much–every dollar we spend now to build a road, 50 cents goes to regulation," said Fincher. "Until you get that under control, I can't go to the hard working tax-payers of this district and ask them to pay more taxes."  
Fincher says he would support seeking alternative methods, like private funding, to bolster the project.
"There are solutions being talked about: I've had meetings, two weeks ago, in New York, about private sector money coming into infrastructure," said Fincher. "But it's key that if America's gonna get back on top, we have to invest in our infrastructure. I'm totally 100% in, but until we get the bureaucratic problems and regulatory problems under control, I can't come to my constituents and raise the gas tax. But we gotta fix it, it's got to be fixed.
"I-69 will change west Tennessee, it's gonna change the whole southeast forever."

It would be interesting to hear more specifics about the bureaucratic problems and the regulatory problems.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Bobby5280 on August 25, 2015, 04:16:05 PM
The biggest thing that has contributed to the extreme cost increases of building roads:
Skyrocketing prices of building materials.

Concrete, steel, copper, plastics and just about any other material that can be used for manufacturing has seen its costs increase at least 2 to 4 times, if not more, since the last time the federal gas tax was hiked more than 20 years ago.

Globalization drove up demand for commodities like steel and concrete to an extreme. There might be some glimmer of hope for some price decreases as the economy in China and some other parts of the world goes into the toilet (as well as the price of oil trading below $40 per barrel).

Regulation does play a part in the rising costs with all the studies, hearings, law suits and on and on. All of that stuff costs TIME. And commodities prices, labor prices, etc. do not stand still for time. It's easy to see the disconnect and how it can cause the estimate for a major road project to be totally busted in a short amount of time. The government simply must figure out some way to actually start ELIMINATING red tape and streamlining procedures. For the longest time government has only known how to complicate things and slow progress down to nothing.

And then there's always the possibility some key, connected people are getting paid a fortune out of those taxpayer dollars directed at a big project like a new super highway or commuter rail line. I really have to wonder about it when it comes to rail. Some light rail lines are hardly any better than a glorified trolley car service, yet a single line often costs into the billions of dollars. With superhighways, I know the government keeps changing safety standards. While the changes might be for the better they often result in a highway costing a whole lot more to build.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Henry on August 26, 2015, 12:49:13 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on August 25, 2015, 02:50:52 PM

This article (http://wkms.org/post/congressman-fincher-says-tn-shouldnt-raise-gas-tax-i-69-project) reports Congressman Fincher as saying that I-69 is an economic necessity for western Tennessee and that it will change the whole southeast forever; however, he will not support a gas tax increase to help get it built:

Quote
Tennessee's 8th district Congressman Stephen Fincher says the construction of Interstate 69 is critical to the western part of the state, but says his support falls short of increasing the gas tax ....
Fincher says it's an economic necessity for western Tennessee to get I-69 built.  And although part of the project is federally funded, he would not support a raise in the gas tax to fund the state' end.
"All of the bureaucratic problems that we have, all of the regulatory problems that cost so much–every dollar we spend now to build a road, 50 cents goes to regulation," said Fincher. "Until you get that under control, I can't go to the hard working tax-payers of this district and ask them to pay more taxes."  
Fincher says he would support seeking alternative methods, like private funding, to bolster the project.
"There are solutions being talked about: I've had meetings, two weeks ago, in New York, about private sector money coming into infrastructure," said Fincher. "But it's key that if America's gonna get back on top, we have to invest in our infrastructure. I'm totally 100% in, but until we get the bureaucratic problems and regulatory problems under control, I can't come to my constituents and raise the gas tax. But we gotta fix it, it's got to be fixed.
"I-69 will change west Tennessee, it's gonna change the whole southeast forever."

It would be interesting to hear more specifics about the bureaucratic problems and the regulatory problems.
The only other alternative would be to put tolls on the major routes like I-40, I-65 and I-75, and I don't think he'd go for it either; hopefully I'm wrong on that.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on September 06, 2015, 03:09:01 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on July 18, 2014, 06:11:56 PM
This article (http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/local-news/delayed-welcome-i55-visitors-center-in-memphis-still-missing_06595274) reports that a revised Welcome Center along northbound I-55/(currently unsigned) I-69 in Memphis (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Whitehaven,+Memphis,+TN/@35.0412105,-90.0050227,851m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x87d5634afb98f3db:0x9e1c9424014bf780) is about to go to bid again:
Quote
Tennessee's I-55 Welcome Center in Whitehaven, demolished several years ago, has yet to be replaced.
"The revised design is more efficient by consolidating some building spaces, while preserving all of the restroom and tourism capacity anticipated with the completion of the I-69 corridor," said David Roberson, spokesman for the Tennessee Department of General Services.
The state still intends for the new welcome center to be the first net-zero energy building Tennessee owns. Solar panels will be installed on the roof.

The Jackson Tourism website (http://jacksontn.com/tourism/news/detail/165) has posted an article about the August 28 groundbreaking for the Memphis I-55/(currently unsigned) I-69 Welcome Center that projects an opening in Fall 2016:

Quote
The Tennessee Departments of Transportation and Tourist Development held a groundbreaking ceremony for the new I-55 Memphis Welcome Center Aug. 28. Commissioner John Schroer, Tennessee Department of Transportation, Commissioner Kevin Triplett, Tennessee Department of Tourist Development, Memphis Mayor A.C. Wharton and Memphis Convention & Visitors Bureau president & CEO Kevin Kane provided remarks ....
The new 1-55 Welcome Center will feature a modern, energy-efficient design, drawing on the Memphis brand strategy in welcoming visitors to West Tennessee. Tennessee currently has 14 Welcome Centers, all constructed by TDOT and operated by Tourist Development ....
The I-55 Center will be located at 3910 Interstate 55, Mile Marker 3.10 north bound on the Tennessee line, and is expected to open to the public in the fall of 2016.  Interstate 55 is approximately 964 miles that starts in Illinois and runs through Missouri, Arkansas, Tennessee, Mississippi, and Louisiana. It is the only interstate that crosses the Mississippi River twice — in Memphis and St. Louis, Missouri.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on October 11, 2015, 11:31:37 AM
Quote from: Grzrd on September 06, 2015, 03:09:01 PM
The Jackson Tourism website (http://jacksontn.com/tourism/news/detail/165) has posted an article about the August 28 groundbreaking for the Memphis I-55/(currently unsigned) I-69 Welcome Center that projects an opening in Fall 2016

This October 5 article (http://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/news/2015/10/05/state-begins-construction-on-futuristic-new.html), which includes four slides depicting what the I-55/69 Welcome Center will look like, reports that the construction permit was obtained on October 2:

Quote
Tennessee's newest welcome center, coming to I-55 in Memphis, will show off a futuristic first for visitors to the state.
The new I-55 Welcome Center is replacing a defunct facility on northbound I-55 – which had been demolished several years ago – to make way for the state's first net-zero energy building, according to the Tennessee Department of Transportation.
As a net-zero energy building, the visitor center is projected to generate more energy that it will use over the course of a year. The new facility will include a modern design equipped with Memphis branding to welcome visitors to West Tennessee when it opens in fall 2016.
TDOT filed a $2.11 million permit with the Shelby County Department of Construction Code Enforcement on Oct. 2 to begin construction on a new visitor center on the Mississippi-Tennessee state line.
TDOT commissioner John Schroer, Tennessee Department of Tourist Development commissioner Kevin Triplett, Memphis Mayor A C Wharton and Memphis Convention & Visitors Bureau president/CEO Kevin Kane broke ground on the I-55 Welcome Center Replacement Project, located at 3910 I-55, on Aug. 28.

Also, this October 4 article (http://www.commercialappeal.com/business/real-estate/construction-starting-soon-on-i-55-welcome-center-ep-1216577395-323466291.html) reports on the upcoming construction and includes both a photograph and a video featuring the currently existing sculpture called "Pyradoptics".
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on October 15, 2015, 02:59:10 PM
Does anyone know when we might see actual Interstate 69 signs in the state of Tennessee? I think it should have at least been signed in Memphis by now, given Interstate 269 will be complete in a few years.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: lordsutch on October 15, 2015, 05:24:20 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on October 15, 2015, 02:59:10 PM
Does anyone know when we might see actual Interstate 69 signs in the state of Tennessee? I think it should have at least been signed in Memphis by now, given Interstate 269 will be complete in a few years.

Maybe they're waiting to sign it until they do the eight-laning of midtown I-240. I guess it would make sense to decommission midtown I-240 and replace it with I-69 (along with renumbering the exits) as part of the same project.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on October 16, 2015, 06:25:09 PM
When will that happen? Is there a date for construction on the project?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on November 09, 2015, 02:31:35 PM
This TDOT press release (https://www.tn.gov/news/19387) announces the release, by Gov. Haslam, of two highway project lists: (a) currently backlogged projects (https://www.tdot.tn.gov/ProjectNeeds/Images/documents/Backlog-Projects-for-11-9-15.pdf), and (b) new projects (https://www.tdot.tn.gov/ProjectNeeds/Images/documents/New-Projects-for-11-9-15.pdf), as part of his public relations campaign to identify increased transportation funding in Tennessee:

Quote
Joined by Department of Transportation (TDOT) Commissioner John Schroer, Haslam also released two transportation projects lists: a list of 181 backlogged projects that will not be completed or at least under contract until 2034; and a list of 765 new project needs that cannot be considered until 2022 at the earliest, if ever.

In a mild surprise to me, I-69 SIU 8 is included in the backlogged projects list (along with the remaining SIU 7 and SIU 9 projects), even though a Final Environmental Impact Statement has not been released:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FyOX796W.png&hash=8f365dd4a7ec5b063904ba5b5cf6d152a4e4623e)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fuw1iCa6.png&hash=7fb0b38b4e554f3b8b0975ece78265c3ba324fe4)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FcONPAjf.png&hash=13f14905e2b84a93bb4a1a2809ef27affdceb85c)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F7rsrisU.png&hash=e4fc6dc4ea10154037ccfc051987f2acb9b903dc)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FtrKxifo.png&hash=dc6cebd5a9dfd4b0e6d111f92d52cf146db83466)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FoPBKL6I.png&hash=ba84ce9ba8ba479b09007bf88bb15de85fcd7f63)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FTUlQAGy.png&hash=4bb6a3c5827f8b407efa2f861d64d20ee7eb94b1)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FH34urcS.png&hash=d9f3725bab973a99e12788b461f4b3903cb98fc4)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fpl5blkC.png&hash=8d3efbfa9f9dadbdef6f161b4699e8f12f3bbbf1)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FgjM9mVH.png&hash=3cdb00b6e151f093225d019c52e95931ed942800)

In a bit of a disappointment, the state line connection to Kentucky is considered a "new" project that cannot currently be considered until 2022, at the earliest:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FsyTSQOW.png&hash=8842723345c9acd2856541a199fcd8cbcf554873)

With the state line section aside, I think it would be miraculous if the rest of I-69 were let by 2034 with increased transportation funding.  Also, as a side note, the Shelby County "From 0.8 mile east of US 51 to 0.5 mile south of SR 388" project includes the final section of I-269.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on November 24, 2015, 10:57:10 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on November 09, 2015, 02:31:35 PM
This TDOT press release (https://www.tn.gov/news/19387) announces the release, by Gov. Haslam, of ...currently backlogged projects (https://www.tdot.tn.gov/ProjectNeeds/Images/documents/Backlog-Projects-for-11-9-15.pdf) ... :
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fpl5blkC.png&hash=8d3efbfa9f9dadbdef6f161b4699e8f12f3bbbf1)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FgjM9mVH.png&hash=3cdb00b6e151f093225d019c52e95931ed942800)

This article (http://www.commercialappeal.com/business/logistics/Memphis-backlog-of-uncompleted-road-projects-nears-1-billion-352338291.html) reports that Shelby County currently has approximately $1 billion worth of backlogged projects, that Shelby County's backlogged I-69 projects total approximately $423 million, and that Shelby County officials believe that I-69 is a national project to which the federal government needs to provide greater support:

Quote
... Gov. Bill Haslam ... recently stood on BNSF property with traffic roaring in the background and talked about the state's $6 billion backlog of transportation projects, including at least $934 million that touch Shelby County. Haslam said he wants to work with lawmakers to come up with a plan to fix the issue before he leaves office in 2018 ....
While Shelby's backlogged projects are all over the map, transportation and logistics industry experts listed Lamar's $229 million fix as the No. 1 thing that would help move freight through and within Memphis ....
Dexter Muller, a senior advisor for the Greater Memphis Chamber
....
Beyond the Lamar corridor, a proposed $43 million revamp of the Airways-I-240 interchange and projects related to I-69, the so-called NAFTA Highway stretching from Mexico to Canada, are seen as key projects to Memphis area freight movement....
I-69 [is] considered as much national as local in significance, and Memphis chamber officials argue [it] should receive a larger proportion of federal support for that reason ....
Projects related to I-69 account for $423 million of the TDOT backlog: $50 million to extend I-69 along the I-240 Midtown leg and $373 million to buy right of way and build the road paralleling U.S. 51 from Frayser into Tipton County.
Muller said
I-69 would serve 40 percent of U.S. manufacturing industry. "That's a roadway of national significance. The bottom line is the states can't do this individually. A part of the reason we're having this problem at the state level is the federal government hasn't stepped up."

Here is a snip of the I-240/69 project from the backlogged project list:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FQ104KH8.jpg&hash=62c89de72ade4ca28cd8049b34150beb4f89d133)

With the Lamar Avenue improvements being the number one priority over I-69 SIUs 8 and 9 in Shelby County, maybe TDOT can focus on completing most of I-69 SIU 7 (I-155 to near Kentucky state line) in roughly the same amount of time that it will take to complete the Lamar Avenue upgrades.  Then, shift the I-69 focus southward to Shelby County.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on January 08, 2016, 03:15:17 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on November 09, 2015, 02:31:35 PM
This TDOT press release (https://www.tn.gov/news/19387) announces the release, by Gov. Haslam, of two highway project lists: (a) currently backlogged projects (https://www.tdot.tn.gov/ProjectNeeds/Images/documents/Backlog-Projects-for-11-9-15.pdf), and (b) new projects (https://www.tdot.tn.gov/ProjectNeeds/Images/documents/New-Projects-for-11-9-15.pdf), as part of his public relations campaign to identify increased transportation funding in Tennessee .... I-69 SIU 8 is included in the backlogged projects list (along with the remaining SIU 7 and SIU 9 projects), even though a Final Environmental Impact Statement has not been released

For the first time since 2011, and probably as a result of passage of the FAST legislation, TDOT has updated its I-69 Segment 8 Status (https://www.tn.gov/tdot/article/i69-segment-8-status) page and projects the release of an I-69 SIU 8 Final Environmental Impact Statement ("FEIS") in the third quarter of 2016 and the issuance of an I-69 SIU 8 Record of Decision ("ROD") in the first quarter of 2017:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FV49ita1.png&hash=f34ca28a7743a7f43bd3a1253bd9e91a79e98f2a)

I wonder if further delays will result from Tennessee's effort to increase state-level transportation funding.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on January 08, 2016, 04:01:40 PM
Is Tennessee still considering building portions of Interstate 69 as a toll road?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: codyg1985 on January 09, 2016, 01:24:08 PM
I'm not sure if I've heard of Tennessee building it as a toll road. It would be incredibly easy to shunpike it if only the new segments were built as a toll road, though.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on January 09, 2016, 02:27:17 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 08, 2016, 04:01:40 PM
Is Tennessee still considering building portions of Interstate 69 as a toll road?
Quote from: codyg1985 on January 09, 2016, 01:24:08 PM
I'm not sure if I've heard of Tennessee building it as a toll road. It would be incredibly easy to shunpike it if only the new segments were built as a toll road, though.

This post (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3841.msg201506;topicseen#msg201506) quotes an article as indicating that traffic studies concluded that I-69 would not generate enough traffic to support tolls:

Quote from: Grzrd on February 04, 2013, 10:06:30 PM
This article (http://www.stategazette.com/story/1937580.html) reports that traffic studies have indicated that I-69 would not generate enough traffic to support tolls:
Quote
State Rep. Bill Sanderson addressed approximately 75 residents .... Dyersburg Alderman Bob Kirk .... asked if there was a possibility of installing a toll road to generate revenue for the corridor. Sanderson responded that Schroer previously had addressed the use of toll roads to fund I-69. However, traffic studies indicated that there would not be enough traffic to generate the required revenue.




Quote from: Grzrd on April 10, 2015, 10:06:16 AM
TDOT has posted its Fiscal Years 2016 - 2018 Proposed Comprehensive Multimodal Program (http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/documents/ThreeYearProgram-TDOT-2016-2018.pdf) and construction for the 4.9 mile project from west of TN 21 to US 51 has been pushed back to FY 2018:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FZyelE88.png&hash=38dcee70d135367a838c76b1cf06f6357d0cf192)
It sure would be nice to have a long-term reauthorization to help TDOT fulfill Commissioner Schroer's commitment to finish I-69 SIU 7 in approximately ten years.
Quote from: Grzrd on June 10, 2015, 10:27:48 AM
In a mild surprise since Congress only approved a two-month funding patch through July 31 instead of a long-term reauthorization, TDOT has announced (http://wkms.org/post/tdot-makes-progress-i-69-future-funding-uncertain) that it will have a letting for the south of US 51 to south of TN 5 project this year:
Quote
The Tennessee Department of Transportation says they will have a contract letting for construction on a portion of I-69 in northwest Tennessee will begin this year.
T-DOT Spokeswoman Nichole Lawrence said funding is secured for grade and drainage construction along a section of the planned route between US-51 and State Route 5 near Union City.
Maybe they will get I-69 SIU 7 done within ten years .......

Even though TDOT did not let the south of US 51 to south of TN 5 project in 2015, TDOT now dangles the possibility, on its I-69 Segment 7 Status page (https://www.tn.gov/tdot/article/i69-segment-7-status), that both that project and the 4.9 mile project from west of TN 21 to US 51 will be let in 2016:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FajZVk8G.jpg&hash=e7f9a8cb56e6c8acdf676c33ab54a6235136d62f)

Two I-69 lettings in one calendar year would be remarkable and would help the effort to complete SIU 7 within a decade.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: thefro on January 11, 2016, 12:27:26 PM
Good news.... would be a very positive sign if they can let both projects.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on January 16, 2016, 03:25:56 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on January 09, 2016, 02:27:17 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on June 10, 2015, 10:27:48 AM
In a mild surprise since Congress only approved a two-month funding patch through July 31 instead of a long-term reauthorization, TDOT has announced (http://wkms.org/post/tdot-makes-progress-i-69-future-funding-uncertain) that it will have a letting for the south of US 51 to south of TN 5 project this year
Even though TDOT did not let the south of US 51 to south of TN 5 project in 2015, TDOT now dangles the possibility, on its I-69 Segment 7 Status page (https://www.tn.gov/tdot/article/i69-segment-7-status), that both that project and the 4.9 mile project from west of TN 21 to US 51 will be let in 2016:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FajZVk8G.jpg&hash=e7f9a8cb56e6c8acdf676c33ab54a6235136d62f)

Consistent with its information on the I-69 Segment 7 Status page, TDOT has posted the south of US 51 to south of TN 5 project on its February 12, 2016 Letting page (https://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/Const_February_2016_Notice.pdf):

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FQdc9Ada.jpg&hash=6efe814d2a931a35ae1847c4e716765edf605c7a)

Allowing approximately 3.5 years to complete a grading and structures project by October 31, 2019 seems like an unnecessarily long period of time to do so.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on February 12, 2016, 12:33:32 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on January 16, 2016, 03:25:56 PM
Consistent with its information on the I-69 Segment 7 Status page, TDOT has posted the south of US 51 to south of TN 5 project on its February 12, 2016 Letting page (https://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/Const_February_2016_Notice.pdf):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FQdc9Ada.jpg&hash=6efe814d2a931a35ae1847c4e716765edf605c7a)

Alas, the above project, Call No. 070, does not appear on the Apparent Low Bids for Letting of February 12, 2016 page (https://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/Feb12_apparent_bids.pdf). The wait continues ............




As a side note, TDOT has revised its I-69 pages and now has a Segment 7 Timeline page (https://www.tn.gov/tdot/article/i69-segment-7-status) with the following information:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FTmJHjl8.png&hash=e770e9fb13a8cc2d76f20e2491eeadacd30ffc97)




Quote from: Grzrd on October 11, 2015, 11:31:37 AM
This October 5 article (http://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/news/2015/10/05/state-begins-construction-on-futuristic-new.html), which includes four slides depicting what the I-55/69 Welcome Center will look like, reports that the construction permit was obtained on October 2

This January 13, 2016 article and video (http://www.localmemphis.com/news/local-news/construction-underway-on-new-welcome-center) provides an update on the I-55/69 "net zero energy" welcome center construction:

Quote
Construction workers said they started on it about three months ago and they are about a month behind. It should be completed sometime this spring.
Once finished, it will be the state's first net zero energy building, meaning it is supposed to generate more energy than it will use in a year.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on February 12, 2016, 02:33:49 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on February 12, 2016, 12:33:32 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on January 16, 2016, 03:25:56 PM
Consistent with its information on the I-69 Segment 7 Status page, TDOT has posted the south of US 51 to south of TN 5 project on its February 12, 2016 Letting page (https://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/Const_February_2016_Notice.pdf):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FQdc9Ada.jpg&hash=6efe814d2a931a35ae1847c4e716765edf605c7a)
Alas, the above project, Call No. 070, does not appear on the Apparent Low Bids for Letting of February 12, 2016 page (https://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/Feb12_apparent_bids.pdf). The wait continues ............

But apparently not for long. The project appears on a March 4 Special Letting (https://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/Const_March_2016_Notice.pdf) as the only project (Call No. 001):

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Ft0BElbF.png&hash=2a4726d4dd2aa7c28e910b74b74b07eee4d5271a)

Maybe TDOT is serious about continuing with SIU 7 .......
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: rte66man on February 13, 2016, 05:21:00 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on February 12, 2016, 02:33:49 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on February 12, 2016, 12:33:32 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on January 16, 2016, 03:25:56 PM
Consistent with its information on the I-69 Segment 7 Status page, TDOT has posted the south of US 51 to south of TN 5 project on its February 12, 2016 Letting page (https://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/Const_February_2016_Notice.pdf):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FQdc9Ada.jpg&hash=6efe814d2a931a35ae1847c4e716765edf605c7a)
Alas, the above project, Call No. 070, does not appear on the Apparent Low Bids for Letting of February 12, 2016 page (https://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/Feb12_apparent_bids.pdf). The wait continues ............

But apparently not for long. The project appears on a March 4 Special Letting (https://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/Const_March_2016_Notice.pdf) as the only project (Call No. 001):

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Ft0BElbF.png&hash=2a4726d4dd2aa7c28e910b74b74b07eee4d5271a)

Maybe TDOT is serious about continuing with SIU 7 .......

I would hope so.  As already mentioned, this is the section of I69 that needs to have the highest priority.  Connect Fulton to Dyersburg and you have an all-interstate connection to Memphis.  And I suspect that most of the SB traffic is headed west on 40 anyway.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: brycecordry on February 15, 2016, 08:17:14 PM
Quote from: rte66man on February 13, 2016, 05:21:00 PM

I would hope so.  As already mentioned, this is the section of I69 that needs to have the highest priority.  Connect Fulton to Dyersburg and you have an all-interstate connection to Memphis.  And I suspect that most of the SB traffic is headed west on 40 anyway.

Perhaps what they can do, to alleviate the high cost and inconvenience to the residents is continue I-69 west, across the Mississippi on the Caruthersville Bridge, across on an 8-10 mile-long connector between I-155 and I-55, then extend it down I-55 into Arkansas. Add a brief concurrency with I-40 west and then down back across the Mississippi to rejoin the existing alignment in Mississippi. This would require much less construction than the US 51 plan, and even though it would require another river crossing, it would still cost less due to all the property and outer roads they would have to build. I have drafted it up on this link to view. LINK https://drive.google.com/open?id=1oBkHGBQhnA28NLRgwmksaYwuhc0&usp=sharing
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: lordsutch on February 16, 2016, 07:13:53 PM
Quote from: brycecordry on February 15, 2016, 08:17:14 PM
Perhaps what they can do, to alleviate the high cost and inconvenience to the residents is continue I-69 west, across the Mississippi on the Caruthersville Bridge, across on an 8-10 mile-long connector between I-155 and I-55, then extend it down I-55 into Arkansas. Add a brief concurrency with I-40 west and then down back across the Mississippi to rejoin the existing alignment in Mississippi. This would require much less construction than the US 51 plan, and even though it would require another river crossing, it would still cost less due to all the property and outer roads they would have to build. I have drafted it up on this link to view. LINK https://drive.google.com/open?id=1oBkHGBQhnA28NLRgwmksaYwuhc0&usp=sharing

What inconvenience to residents? South of I-155, it's almost entirely a new terrain routing over farmland. Even the section between north Memphis and Millington avoids significant development. Besides which, as mentioned above, a bypass of US 51 from Memphis north to at least Covington is already needed; recently-widened TN 14 relieves some traffic but really only helps with the section from Millington through Atoka.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: brycecordry on February 16, 2016, 10:30:49 PM
Quote from: lordsutch on February 16, 2016, 07:13:53 PM

What inconvenience to residents? South of I-155, it's almost entirely a new terrain routing over farmland. Even the section between north Memphis and Millington avoids significant development. Besides which, as mentioned above, a bypass of US 51 from Memphis north to at least Covington is already needed; recently-widened TN 14 relieves some traffic but really only helps with the section from Millington through Atoka.

I guess it would be less of an inconvenience to the residents and more of the fact that my proposal would greatly reduce the number of new miles needed to be constructed (instead putting them onto existing freeway). Furthermore with the new bridge people could bypass Memphis, even if still wanting to go on I-55 (I-69 to I-269 back to I-55)

As for the traffic issue, they can easily extend the beltway around, back to I-55/69 in Arkansas, and if they really want the routing of I-69, they can always complete the road and name it something like I-340.

I just believe that the proposed I-69 between Dyersburg and Memphis is just simply Too Close To I-55 to be of national use.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Wayward Memphian on February 17, 2016, 12:24:05 AM
Quote from: brycecordry on February 16, 2016, 10:30:49 PM
Quote from: lordsutch on February 16, 2016, 07:13:53 PM

What inconvenience to residents? South of I-155, it's almost entirely a new terrain routing over farmland. Even the section between north Memphis and Millington avoids significant development. Besides which, as mentioned above, a bypass of US 51 from Memphis north to at least Covington is already needed; recently-widened TN 14 relieves some traffic but really only helps with the section from Millington through Atoka.

I guess it would be less of an inconvenience to the residents and more of the fact that my proposal would greatly reduce the number of new miles needed to be constructed (instead putting them onto existing freeway). Furthermore with the new bridge people could bypass Memphis, even if still wanting to go on I-55 (I-69 to I-269 back to I-55)

As for the traffic issue, they can easily extend the beltway around, back to I-55/69 in Arkansas, and if they really want the routing of I-69, they can always complete the road and name it something like I-340.

I just believe that the proposed I-69 between Dyersburg and Memphis is just simply Too Close To I-55 to be of national use.
I would love to see new northern and southern bridges that would in effect make a complete loop around Memphis using  TN385/I-269. What you don't get is redundancy in this area way lacking considering the ever present New Madrid fault line. I-40 in Arkansas is stressed enough. I would gladly trade you the Memphis/LR leg for the stretch of I-70 between STL and KC.  We need more 4 lane limited access roads in this country, period. Memphis needs all the spokes it can get due to it's role as a giant distribution hub. Folks outside of the area just have no understanding how big of a hub it is. 
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on March 10, 2016, 01:08:49 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on February 12, 2016, 02:33:49 PM
The project appears on a March 4 Special Letting (https://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/Const_March_2016_Notice.pdf) as the only project (Call No. 001)

TDOT has posted the Contract Award (https://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/CONST_March2016_Awards.pdf) for the project, with the winning bid coming in slightly under the estimate:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FAbnCouT.png&hash=7c295a01405335767dedfa86b69d937273522440)

Here is a snip of a project map from the Plans (https://www.tdot.tn.gov/PublicDocuments//Construction/Design_CADD_Files/March%204,%202016%20letting/101343-00-info-Rev-02-11-16.pdf) (p. 1/603 of pdf):

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FtwKa8rN.png&hash=aabd6f9e821cd069a7b90a357cb5d72e594711df)




Quote from: Grzrd on November 24, 2015, 10:57:10 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on November 09, 2015, 02:31:35 PM
This TDOT press release (https://www.tn.gov/news/19387) announces the release, by Gov. Haslam, of ...currently backlogged projects (https://www.tdot.tn.gov/ProjectNeeds/Images/documents/Backlog-Projects-for-11-9-15.pdf) ...
Here is a snip of the I-240/69 project from the backlogged project list:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FQ104KH8.jpg&hash=62c89de72ade4ca28cd8049b34150beb4f89d133)

FWIW, TDOT now includes the above I-240/69 project, in addition to the four Memphis new terrain SIU 9 projects, on its Segment 9 Timeline page (https://www.tn.gov/tdot/article/i69-segment-9-status):

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fzl78el0.png&hash=5cc0a5c588564a4f424402f0c74828eca5b63c82)

Maybe TDOT is anticipating (hoping?) that some sort of federal dedicated funding for I-69 projects will emerge in the next few years.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: lordsutch on March 10, 2016, 11:53:40 PM
More likely now that 385 and the 40/240 interchanges are (mostly) done, the I-69 projects are in the next cluster of big-ticket projects in Memphis after the I-55/Riverside/Crump reconstruction and Walnut Grove/Kirby-Whitten in Shelby Farms. I don't see any new earmarked money coming anytime soon for anything.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Wayward Memphian on March 12, 2016, 09:59:57 AM
Quote from: rte66man on February 13, 2016, 05:21:00 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on February 12, 2016, 02:33:49 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on February 12, 2016, 12:33:32 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on January 16, 2016, 03:25:56 PM
Consistent with its information on the I-69 Segment 7 Status page, TDOT has posted the south of US 51 to south of TN 5 project on its February 12, 2016 Letting page (https://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/Const_February_2016_Notice.pdf):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FQdc9Ada.jpg&hash=6efe814d2a931a35ae1847c4e716765edf605c7a)
Alas, the above project, Call No. 070, does not appear on the Apparent Low Bids for Letting of February 12, 2016 page (https://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/Feb12_apparent_bids.pdf). The wait continues ............

But apparently not for long. The project appears on a March 4 Special Letting (https://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/Const_March_2016_Notice.pdf) as the only project (Call No. 001):

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Ft0BElbF.png&hash=2a4726d4dd2aa7c28e910b74b74b07eee4d5271a)

Maybe TDOT is serious about continuing with SIU 7 .......

I would hope so.  As already mentioned, this is the section of I69 that needs to have the highest priority.  Connect Fulton to Dyersburg and you have an all-interstate connection to Memphis.  And I suspect that most of the SB traffic is headed west on 40 anyway.

Nashville/Haslem wants to get busy getting folks to that new Megasite just east of Arlington. They tout it as being big enough for multiple superprojects. Adding road infrastructure in the area helps that along. I even had a friend in Nashville that works at the Capitol say they would be willing to build a runway if it meant landing an plane assembly line. It's all about legacy building time in Nashville.

Get I-69 helps the PR machine. It's missing on this puffpiece, bet they want to add it
https://youtu.be/5MtQGvEJ8Mo
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on April 25, 2016, 01:14:30 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on November 24, 2015, 10:57:10 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on November 09, 2015, 02:31:35 PM
This TDOT press release (https://www.tn.gov/news/19387) announces the release, by Gov. Haslam, of ...currently backlogged projects (https://www.tdot.tn.gov/ProjectNeeds/Images/documents/Backlog-Projects-for-11-9-15.pdf) ...
This article (http://www.commercialappeal.com/business/logistics/Memphis-backlog-of-uncompleted-road-projects-nears-1-billion-352338291.html):
Quote
Projects related to I-69 account for $423 million of the TDOT backlog: ... $50 million to extend I-69 along the I-240 Midtown leg ...
Here is a snip of the I-240/69 project from the backlogged project list:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FQ104KH8.jpg&hash=62c89de72ade4ca28cd8049b34150beb4f89d133)
Quote from: Grzrd on March 10, 2016, 01:08:49 PM
TDOT now includes the above I-240/69 project, in addition to the four Memphis new terrain SIU 9 projects, on its Segment 9 Timeline page (https://www.tn.gov/tdot/article/i69-segment-9-status):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fzl78el0.png&hash=5cc0a5c588564a4f424402f0c74828eca5b63c82)

Although it does not appear in TDOT's Shelby County listing in the Proposed Fiscal Years 2017-2019 Comprehensive Multimodal Program (http://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/FY_17-19_3_year_program_%283-29-2016%29.pdf), $1 million (combined federal and state funding) in estimated FY 2019 ROW acquisition costs for the above I-240/69 project does appear in the the Memphis MPO's FY 2017-20 TIP Project List (http://www.memphismpo.org/sites/default/files/public/FY%202017-20%20Project%20List%20%28Compiled%29.pdf) that will be presented to its Transportation Policy Board for approval on May 5 (p. 1/8 of pdf):

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fs6h0yBC.png&hash=a80e3f74e0380cd1d986ded9441349f0dc0f4162)
....
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FZ6AaBVP.png&hash=b4d3e0faf4a4108005b524daa7f8b45e935494bd)

Maybe the Memphis MPO wants to include this I-69 project in the TIP in order to help establish a priority for the time if and when Gov. Haslam and Commissioner Schroer persuade the Tennessee legislature to increase state-level funding for transportation.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: lordsutch on April 25, 2016, 01:30:38 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on April 25, 2016, 01:14:30 PM
Although it does not appear in TDOT's Shelby County listing in the Proposed Fiscal Years 2017-2019 Comprehensive Multimodal Program (http://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/FY_17-19_3_year_program_%283-29-2016%29.pdf), $1 million (combined federal and state funding) in estimated ROW acquisition costs for the above I-240/69 project does appear in the the Memphis MPO's FY 2017-20 TIP Project List (http://www.memphismpo.org/sites/default/files/public/FY%202017-20%20Project%20List%20%28Compiled%29.pdf) that will be presented to its Transportation Policy Board for approval on May 5 (p. 1/8 of pdf):

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fs6h0yBC.png&hash=a80e3f74e0380cd1d986ded9441349f0dc0f4162)
....
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FZ6AaBVP.png&hash=b4d3e0faf4a4108005b524daa7f8b45e935494bd)

Maybe the Memphis MPO wants to include this I-69 project in the TIP in order to help establish a priority for the time if and when Gov. Haslam and Commissioner Schroer persuade the Tennessee legislature to increase state-level funding for transportation.

I went to a public meeting on this project about a decade ago. Basically the project is to widen Midtown I-240 between I-55 and I-40 from 6 to 8 through lanes; most of the work was originally planned in the current ROW by narrowing the inner shoulders and using 11-foot lanes, hence the low ROW acquisition costs. (I think I suggested using 10' inner lanes and keeping 12' outer lanes and limiting trucks to the two right-hand lanes.) I believe TDOT also planned to remove some of the loop ramps at the South Parkway cloverleaf. If I recall correctly, there are also some bridge clearance issues that may or may not be resolved too.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on May 21, 2016, 10:27:25 AM
Quote from: Grzrd on January 29, 2014, 10:56:02 AM
After seeing the state line work included in Kentucky's Recommended Plan, I emailed TDOT and asked for an update of the situation on their side of the state line.
My question:
Quote
I recently noticed that KYTC has included an I-69 TN/KY state line project in its 2014 Recommended Highway Plan (page 43):
http://transportation.ky.gov/Program-Management/Highway%20Plan/2014RecommendedProjectListing.pdf
With the above project in mind, I assume that TDOT has committed to remaining on the US 51 corridor in that area and upgrading the current interchange in that area.  Is that a safe assumption? If so, has TDOT finalized plans on how to upgrade the US 45E interchange to meet current interstate standards?
The response:
Quote
I want to thank you for contacting our office about the I-69 project in Obion County.  You ask about the corridor for the section of I-68 [sic] from Union City to the Kentucky line.  This section will follow existing US 51 to the Kentucky Purchase Parkway.  Kentucky is currently work [sic] TDOT on the completion of the environmental reevaluation at the Kentucky line.   The Final Environmental Impact Statement did not identify the connector to the Purchase Parkway so the document has to be reevaluated to include the connector to the Purchase Parkway. 
TDOT has not started developing plans on the upgrade to US 45 E  or US 51.
At least they are doing some preliminary environmental work on the connection.
Quote from: Grzrd on November 09, 2015, 02:31:35 PM
This TDOT press release (https://www.tn.gov/news/19387) announces the release, by Gov. Haslam, of two highway project lists: (a) currently backlogged projects (https://www.tdot.tn.gov/ProjectNeeds/Images/documents/Backlog-Projects-for-11-9-15.pdf), and (b) new projects (https://www.tdot.tn.gov/ProjectNeeds/Images/documents/New-Projects-for-11-9-15.pdf), as part of his public relations campaign to identify increased transportation funding in Tennessee ....
In a bit of a disappointment, the state line connection to Kentucky is considered a "new" project that cannot currently be considered until 2022, at the earliest:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FsyTSQOW.png&hash=8842723345c9acd2856541a199fcd8cbcf554873)

TDOT held a December 3, 2015 Public Meeting about the connection to Kentucky (https://www.tn.gov/tdot/event/obion-county-public-meeting-on-i-69), during which two alternative alignments were presented:

Quote
The Tennessee Department of Transportation (TDOT), in association with the Kentucky Transportation Cabinet (KYTC), will host a Public Information Meeting on Thursday, December 3, 2015, in the Community Room of South Fulton City Hall, 700 Milton Counce Drive, South Fulton, TN 38257, to discuss one segment of the proposed Interstate 69 (Corridor 18) Segment of Independent Utility 7, which begins at the U.S. 412/U.S 51 interchange in Dyer County, Tennessee, and ends at the Purchase Parkway in Fulton County, Kentucky (map). The focus of the public meeting is the segment of the project that extends from U.S. 51 near Rogers Road in Obion County, Tennessee, to the Purchase Parkway near U.S. 51/U.S. 45E in Fulton County, Kentucky.  The length of this segment is approximately 3.2 miles.  Two alignment alternatives will be presented at the public meeting for this segment. Alternative 1 would bypass South Fulton, Tennessee and Fulton, Kentucky to the west, and generally follows the original alignment studied in the Draft Environmental Impact Statement (DEIS).  Alternative 2 generally follows existing U.S. 51 in Tennessee and Purchase Parkway (U.S. 51 Bypass) in Kentucky.  Alternative 2 would require the reconstruction of the U.S. 51/U.S. 45E interchange as well as other system improvements ....
At the time of the approval of the Record of Decision (ROD) in September 2002, based on public comments, TDOT and KYTC agreed to defer the environmental analysis and alignment studies for the segment from U.S. 51 near Rogers Road in Tennessee into Fulton County, Kentucky until the KYTC was ready to address the project.  This meeting will request public input on the project and recently proposed alignment alternatives for this segment.

A Transcript of the meeting (https://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/Obion_Co_Pub_Mtg_I-69_120315_transcript.pdf) provides some clarification about the two alternatives resulting from questions by attendees.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: lordsutch on May 21, 2016, 07:00:37 PM


Quote from: Grzrd on November 09, 2015, 02:31:35 PM

TDOT held a December 3, 2015 Public Meeting about the connection to Kentucky (https://www.tn.gov/tdot/event/obion-county-public-meeting-on-i-69), during which two alternative alignments were presented:

Quote
The Tennessee Department of Transportation (TDOT), in association with the Kentucky Transportation Cabinet (KYTC), will host a Public Information Meeting on Thursday, December 3, 2015, in the Community Room of South Fulton City Hall, 700 Milton Counce Drive, South Fulton, TN 38257, to discuss one segment of the proposed Interstate 69 (Corridor 18) Segment of Independent Utility 7, which begins at the U.S. 412/U.S 51 interchange in Dyer County, Tennessee, and ends at the Purchase Parkway in Fulton County, Kentucky (map). The focus of the public meeting is the segment of the project that extends from U.S. 51 near Rogers Road in Obion County, Tennessee, to the Purchase Parkway near U.S. 51/U.S. 45E in Fulton County, Kentucky.  The length of this segment is approximately 3.2 miles.  Two alignment alternatives will be presented at the public meeting for this segment. Alternative 1 would bypass South Fulton, Tennessee and Fulton, Kentucky to the west, and generally follows the original alignment studied in the Draft Environmental Impact Statement (DEIS).  Alternative 2 generally follows existing U.S. 51 in Tennessee and Purchase Parkway (U.S. 51 Bypass) in Kentucky.  Alternative 2 would require the reconstruction of the U.S. 51/U.S. 45E interchange as well as other system improvements ....
At the time of the approval of the Record of Decision (ROD) in September 2002, based on public comments, TDOT and KYTC agreed to defer the environmental analysis and alignment studies for the segment from U.S. 51 near Rogers Road in Tennessee into Fulton County, Kentucky until the KYTC was ready to address the project.  This meeting will request public input on the project and recently proposed alignment alternatives for this segment.

A Transcript of the meeting (https://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/Obion_Co_Pub_Mtg_I-69_120315_transcript.pdf) provides some clarification about the two alternatives resulting from questions by attendees.

Nice find. It'd be nice if TDOT or KYTC had posted the meeting exhibits on the website, since the thumbnail map in the notice was really low-scale.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: rte66man on May 21, 2016, 10:29:57 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on May 21, 2016, 10:27:25 AM
A Transcript of the meeting (https://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/Obion_Co_Pub_Mtg_I-69_120315_transcript.pdf) provides some clarification about the two alternatives resulting from questions by attendees.

Also from the transcript:
We believe that it's an important connector to get this built and getit around Union City and back onto 51 so that it basically shows some interstate continuity from, in
essence, Caruthersville, Missouri, all the way through Dyersburg, and up through Kentucky and through here. That is a connection that's a useable interstate
connector at that point, even without being built all the way straight through Tennessee to Memphis. 

I'm glad to see that TDOT recognizes that SIU7 should have the highest priority.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on May 21, 2016, 11:42:55 PM
Quote from: lordsutch on June 10, 2015, 09:15:27 PM
An excuse to go up the elevator at Discovery Park again in a couple of years for more photos...
Quote from: Grzrd on March 10, 2016, 01:08:49 PM
TDOT has posted the Contract Award (https://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/CONST_March2016_Awards.pdf) for the project
Quote from: rte66man on May 21, 2016, 10:29:57 PM
I'm glad to see that TDOT recognizes that SIU7 should have the highest priority.

This May 20 video (http://www.wpsdlocal6.com/story/32028845/progress-being-made-on-future-interstate-69-in-union-city) reports that construction from State Route 3 to State Route 5 should begin within the next thirty days (and be completed in 2019), which is apparently good news to the folks at Discovery Park:

Quote
After years of delays, progress is being made on a major route you will eventually be able to take. A second segment of the new Interstate 69 in Union City, Tennessee, will begin in the next 30 days.
It's being build in different segments. The first was built a few years ago from State Route 5 to west of State Route 21.
Next month, construction begins on the second segment from State Route 3 to State Route 5. The final segment will connect the interstate to U.S. 51, which goes into Kentucky. The Tennessee Department of Transportation is still waiting for the funding to begin the third portion ....
Discovery Park CEO Jim Rippy says a new interstate could someday bring even more families to the area.
"It should increase our attendance dramatically, because the whole design was made to work with the interstate," Rippy said.

He says it felt like the project has been slowing down for the last six years or so, so the construction of the $50 million, 2-mile segment gives him hope the project will be completed.
"I can't wait to ride on it. I just want to get on it, and say it's finished," he said ....
Work on this part of the project is expected to be completed in 2019.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: thefro on June 07, 2016, 09:56:32 AM
Looks like there's going to be a groundbreaking ceremony today for the new section

http://wkms.org/post/tenn-transportation-officials-host-groundbreaking-i-69#stream/0
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: thefro on June 08, 2016, 03:04:46 PM
http://www.wpsdlocal6.com/story/32168462/work-begins-on-section-of-new-interstate-in-union-city
http://www.wbbjtv.com/2016/06/07/state-breaks-ground-on-phase-2-of-i-69/

Couple videos with footage from the groundbreaking above.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on October 29, 2016, 09:30:19 AM
Quote from: rte66man on May 21, 2016, 10:29:57 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on May 21, 2016, 10:27:25 AM
A Transcript of the meeting (https://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/Obion_Co_Pub_Mtg_I-69_120315_transcript.pdf) provides some clarification about the two alternatives resulting from questions by attendees.
Also from the transcript:
We believe that it's an important connector to get this built and getit around Union City and back onto 51 so that it basically shows some interstate continuity from, in
essence, Caruthersville, Missouri, all the way through Dyersburg, and up through Kentucky and through here. That is a connection that's a useable interstate
connector at that point, even without being built all the way straight through Tennessee to Memphis. 
I'm glad to see that TDOT recognizes that SIU7 should have the highest priority.

This article (http://www.commercialappeal.com/story/news/2016/10/28/-69-project-revived-but-not-memphis/92742980/) confirms that SIU 7 is the highest priority, with TDOT committed to completing it, but SIU 8 is still in the deep freeze:

Quote
The Tennessee Department of Transportation, which had halted the interstate work because of a lack of federal funding, has decided to complete an approximately 45-mile portion of I-69 running from the Kentucky line to Dyersburg. There it will connect with I-155, a spur that crosses the Mississippi River and extends to I-55 near Hayti, Missouri.
The remaining portions of the planned I-69 route through West Tennessee, including parts in Lauderdale, Tipton and Shelby counties, will "continue to be in a held status until there is dedicated federal funding," TDOT spokeswoman Nichole Lawrence said in an email.
Construction on the interstate resumed in the Union City area this summer after department officials determined "there would be value" in finishing just enough of I-69 to link it to I-55, a major north-south route that runs through Memphis, Lawrence said. "The long-term goal would be to establish interstate connectivity." ....
In 2012, after years of planning, right-of-way acquisition and some initial construction, TDOT officials said they were putting the I-69 project on hold until the federal government dedicated more money to it. Without dedicated federal funds, which generally cover 80-90 percent of the cost of building an interstate, the state would have to divert precious federal highway construction dollars from other projects across Tennessee to pay for I-69, they said.
However, Lawrence said the department recently decided it made sense to build the more limited I-69 route in Northwest Tennessee.
In Union City, located 115 miles northeast of Memphis, the $46.3 million segment now under construction covers 2.87 miles from Tenn. 5 around the west side of town to U.S. 51. Slated for completion in October 2019, it's one of five segments to be built in Obion County encompassing more than 20 miles and costing a total of $205.9 million.
Those segments will extend I-69 from the Kentucky line to south of the town of Troy, where the route will utilize a nearly 25-mile stretch of Highway 51 that needs only minimal upgrades to meet interstate standards.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Life in Paradise on October 29, 2016, 01:04:08 PM
I think that is a good and solid decision by Tennessee.  At least it gives people an option to get to Memphis on an interstate (although a bit out of the way).  Have they ever thought about getting I-69 rerouted to the Dyersburg east bypass and then go down US 412 and then split off, perhaps after Bells to connect up with I-40 to duplex into Memphis.  Don't know if US-412 is less developed, and a cheaper option to upgrade to an interstate.  At the least it would drop the mileage from about 65 miles to 40 miles of new or converted interstate.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on October 29, 2016, 03:39:12 PM
http://www.kentucky.com/news/state/kentucky/article111311962.html#navlink=SecList

I was in Union City last month. There is plenty of activity just south of Union City where the route will cross existing US 51, but none where it will tie into the freeway portion of US 51.

There is absolutely nothing going on to the north and west of town. No sign whatsoever of I-69 on TN 21 heading north (signed as east) toward the state line.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Tomahawkin on October 29, 2016, 11:36:25 PM
They should make it a toll road. The money generated could fund other projects in the Memphis area and in the state of Tennessee for that matter...
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: froggie on October 30, 2016, 12:28:59 PM
Quote from: Quotes from the article:The remaining portions of the planned I-69 route through West Tennessee, including parts in Lauderdale, Tipton and Shelby counties, will "continue to be in a held status until there is dedicated federal funding," TDOT spokeswoman Nichole Lawrence said in an email.

TDOT officials said they were putting the I-69 project on hold until the federal government dedicated more money to it. Without dedicated federal funds, which generally cover 80-90 percent of the cost of building an interstate, the state would have to divert precious federal highway construction dollars from other projects across Tennessee to pay for I-69, they said.

This is what bothers me about several states, including Tennessee here.  They have these grandiose plans that require a lot of money, yet instead of finding other sources, they complain that they can't suck any more from the Federal trough.  Face it, TDOT, Federal highway funding is **HIGHLY UNLIKELY** to increase anytime soon (if ever).  If you really want the project done, you should make it a priority and put some state money into it.

It is for a very similar reason why Corridor X (US 78/Future I-22) has been completed in Mississippi for over 20 years while Alabama just barely got their portion finished.  Mississippi made it a priority for completion and dedicated a fair bit of state money to the project, while Alabama dithered and then whined when Federal highway funding wasn't coming in fast enough.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: vdeane on October 30, 2016, 12:57:53 PM
Many states are still married to the old system where the state and federal governments gave the DOT large chunks of money that the DOT could spend as they liked, with enough to both maintain the system and do lots of new projects.  While some have adapted to the new reality of tight funding and getting dedicated sources for each and every project, many have not.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on October 30, 2016, 02:16:10 PM
Quote from: froggie on October 30, 2016, 12:28:59 PM
Quote from: Quotes from the article:The remaining portions of the planned I-69 route through West Tennessee, including parts in Lauderdale, Tipton and Shelby counties, will "continue to be in a held status until there is dedicated federal funding," TDOT spokeswoman Nichole Lawrence said in an email.

TDOT officials said they were putting the I-69 project on hold until the federal government dedicated more money to it. Without dedicated federal funds, which generally cover 80-90 percent of the cost of building an interstate, the state would have to divert precious federal highway construction dollars from other projects across Tennessee to pay for I-69, they said.

This is what bothers me about several states, including Tennessee here.  They have these grandiose plans that require a lot of money, yet instead of finding other sources, they complain that they can't suck any more from the Federal trough.  Face it, TDOT, Federal highway funding is **HIGHLY UNLIKELY** to increase anytime soon (if ever).  If you really want the project done, you should make it a priority and put some state money into it.

But the only reason that this project is even being done is because of the federal government and its desire to build a border-to-border I-69. If not for that federal legislation, Tennessee would probably be perfectly content to leave US 51 as it is. And Kentucky would have been just fine leaving the WK/Pennyrile and I-24/Purchase interchanges the way they were.

If the feds want I-69, then they should pony up the money to build it. Otherwise, Tennessee (and Kentucky and probably a bunch of the other affected states) probably do have higher construction priorities.

The feds decreed I-69. They should pay for it.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: froggie on October 30, 2016, 02:47:46 PM
QuoteBut the only reason that this project is even being done is because of the federal government certain influential members of Congress who pandered and brought the pork to their constituents and its their desire to build a border-to-border I-69.

FTFY, because that's really how I-69 came to be.  FHWA did not request this...it was dropped on them by Congress.  To say "the Feds decreed it" is a serious misnomer.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: vdeane on October 30, 2016, 06:34:07 PM
Congress decreed it.  And if there's no funding, it's not pork, it's an unfunded mandate (in this case, also congressional overreach; they should not be involved in the interstate system one bit).
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: lordsutch on October 30, 2016, 07:41:13 PM
It's not like Tennessee hasn't sunk state money into projects in the past (notably SR 840); the issue is that the political center of gravity in TN has shifted to the Nashville/Chattanooga corridor from the period when west Tennessee was getting projects like the original US 51 and SR 22 freeway corridors.

As I've noted before, however, most of the west Tennessee priorities (except a new bridge, which realistically isn't going to happen unless tolled or the "old" I-55 bridge falls in the river) that were on the "list" before I-69 are going to be done in the next few years, so SIU 8 and the remainder of SIU 9 will be in position for traditional funding streams along with the US 45 south Jackson bypass.

Incidentally, I have no idea why they think they need dedicated funding for a 80-90% federal match since that's standard for any new construction project under NHPP. On the other hand, it could be a reporter just not understanding how new construction funding works.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on October 30, 2016, 10:47:48 PM
Quote from: vdeane on October 30, 2016, 06:34:07 PM
Congress decreed it.  And if there's no funding, it's not pork, it's an unfunded mandate (in this case, also congressional overreach; they should not be involved in the interstate system one bit).

You seriously don't think the people's elected representatives should be involved in deciding which roads get built?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: brycecordry on October 30, 2016, 11:29:36 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 30, 2016, 10:47:48 PM

You seriously don't think the people's elected representatives should be involved in deciding which roads get built?

I believe that the congressmen are the people's liaisons to the government and how that operates. That said, due to the fact that our country has become too partisan, I believe that many representatives today work for their party and not the people they represent.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on November 02, 2016, 10:53:24 AM
Quote from: lordsutch on April 25, 2016, 01:30:38 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on April 25, 2016, 01:14:30 PM
Although it does not appear in TDOT's Shelby County listing in the Proposed Fiscal Years 2017-2019 Comprehensive Multimodal Program (http://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/FY_17-19_3_year_program_%283-29-2016%29.pdf), $1 million (combined federal and state funding) in estimated ROW acquisition costs for the above I-240/69 project does appear in the the Memphis MPO's FY 2017-20 TIP Project List (http://www.memphismpo.org/sites/default/files/public/FY%202017-20%20Project%20List%20%28Compiled%29.pdf) that will be presented to its Transportation Policy Board for approval on May 5 (p. 1/8 of pdf):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fs6h0yBC.png&hash=a80e3f74e0380cd1d986ded9441349f0dc0f4162)
....
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FZ6AaBVP.png&hash=b4d3e0faf4a4108005b524daa7f8b45e935494bd)
Maybe the Memphis MPO wants to include this I-69 project in the TIP in order to help establish a priority for the time if and when Gov. Haslam and Commissioner Schroer persuade the Tennessee legislature to increase state-level funding for transportation.
I went to a public meeting on this project about a decade ago. Basically the project is to widen Midtown I-240 between I-55 and I-40 from 6 to 8 through lanes; most of the work was originally planned in the current ROW by narrowing the inner shoulders and using 11-foot lanes, hence the low ROW acquisition costs. (I think I suggested using 10' inner lanes and keeping 12' outer lanes and limiting trucks to the two right-hand lanes.) I believe TDOT also planned to remove some of the loop ramps at the South Parkway cloverleaf. If I recall correctly, there are also some bridge clearance issues that may or may not be resolved too.

The Memphis MPO adopted the TIP on August 25 (http://www.memphismpo.org/sites/default/files/public/FY%202017-20%20TIP%20Document_Adopted%2008.25.16.pdf), and this project survived (p. 38/170 of pdf; p. 27 of document).  Also. it confirms that the end project is to widen from six lanes to eight lanes:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_02_11_16_10_49_53.png)
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on November 02, 2016, 02:05:29 PM
When this is done, will Interstate 69 finally be signed through Memphis?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: codyg1985 on November 02, 2016, 02:10:31 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on November 02, 2016, 02:05:29 PM
When this is done, will Interstate 69 finally be signed through Memphis?

That's a good question. That would make the most sense, along with decommissioning I-240 along that segment.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: lordsutch on November 02, 2016, 05:44:04 PM
Quote from: codyg1985 on November 02, 2016, 02:10:31 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on November 02, 2016, 02:05:29 PM
When this is done, will Interstate 69 finally be signed through Memphis?

That's a good question. That would make the most sense, along with decommissioning I-240 along that segment.

I've long advocated decommissioning that section of I-240 in favor of numbering it I-69, for junction continuity if nothing else since unsigned I-69 is actually the through north-south movement at the I-55/I-240 interchange.

Decommissioning midtown I-240 would also clear the path for correctly renumbering the former I-240's exits to eliminate the numbering discontinuity at the I-40/240 east interchange (rump I-240's exits could be renumbered west-to-east from I-55 to I-40).
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on November 03, 2016, 03:27:07 PM
Somehow, I doubt that portion of 240 will be decommissioned. But since I've never been to Memphis, I can't claim any expertise on the matter.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Interstate 69 Fan on November 04, 2016, 12:50:05 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on November 03, 2016, 03:27:07 PM
Somehow, I doubt that portion of 240 will be decommissioned. But since I've never been to Memphis, I can't claim any expertise on the matter.
The only road in Memphis that I-69 will replace is SR 300.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on November 04, 2016, 01:03:07 PM
I posted these in the I-269 thread, but they are relevant here.

They are two maps of proposed I-69 Section 8 from I-155 south to I-269.

https://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/i-69s01.pdf

https://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/i-69s03.pdf
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Interstate 69 Fan on November 04, 2016, 01:58:03 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on November 04, 2016, 01:03:07 PM
I posted these in the I-269 thread, but they are relevant here.

They are two maps of proposed I-69 Section 8 from I-155 south to I-269.

https://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/i-69s01.pdf

https://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/i-69s03.pdf
So, let me get this straight.
Temporarily, when built, I-69 will curve left and become I-269? Weird.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: lordsutch on November 04, 2016, 02:12:20 PM
Quote from: Interstate 69 Fan on November 04, 2016, 01:58:03 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on November 04, 2016, 01:03:07 PM
I posted these in the I-269 thread, but they are relevant here.

They are two maps of proposed I-69 Section 8 from I-155 south to I-269.

https://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/i-69s01.pdf

https://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/i-69s03.pdf
So, let me get this straight.
Temporarily, when built, I-69 will curve left and become I-269? Weird.

If SIU 9 to the south isn't built first, obviously the connection to I-269 & US 51 will need to be built as part of SIU 8. Presumably the future 69/269 interchange would be mostly built out at this point, much as when TN 385 was extended to TN 57 from US 72, the future I-269 interchange was mostly constructed except the NB 269 to WB 385 flyover.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Interstate 69 Fan on November 04, 2016, 03:03:08 PM
Quote from: lordsutch on November 04, 2016, 02:12:20 PM
Quote from: Interstate 69 Fan on November 04, 2016, 01:58:03 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on November 04, 2016, 01:03:07 PM
I posted these in the I-269 thread, but they are relevant here.

They are two maps of proposed I-69 Section 8 from I-155 south to I-269.

https://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/i-69s01.pdf

https://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/i-69s03.pdf
So, let me get this straight.
Temporarily, when built, I-69 will curve left and become I-269? Weird.

If SIU 9 to the south isn't built first, obviously the connection to I-269 & US 51 will need to be built as part of SIU 8. Presumably the future 69/269 interchange would be mostly built out at this point, much as when TN 385 was extended to TN 57 from US 72, the future I-269 interchange was mostly constructed except the NB 269 to WB 385 flyover.
Sounds cool. Also, Will TN 385 be co-signed with I-269 or just I-269?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on November 07, 2016, 08:46:06 PM
I recently emailed TDOT and asked them how the environmental process on SIU 8 was progressing. The pertinent part of the response:

Quote
I want to thank you for your continued interest in I-69 through West Tennessee.  I understand you want to know if the "hold"  status until dedicated funding can be identified means the environmental process will be put on hold  too for SIU 8, Dyersburg to Memphis.   The answer is that TDOT's Environmental Division is working with the consultant on the completion of the Final Environmental Impact Statement.   Currently, we anticipate the completion of the FEIS in fourth quarter of 2017, subject to review times, internally and Federal Highway Administration.




Quote from: froggie on October 30, 2016, 12:28:59 PM
Quote from: Quotes from the article:The remaining portions of the planned I-69 route through West Tennessee, including parts in Lauderdale, Tipton and Shelby counties, will "continue to be in a held status until there is dedicated federal funding," TDOT spokeswoman Nichole Lawrence said in an email.
This is what bothers me about several states, including Tennessee here.  They have these grandiose plans that require a lot of money, yet instead of finding other sources, they complain that they can't suck any more from the Federal trough ....

To be fair, the article should have read "dedicated federal funding or increased state funding" Commissioner Schroer and Gov. Haslam toured the state late last year making the case for increased transportation funding*. This Oct. 5 article (http://www.heraldcourier.com/news/tdot-chief-tenn-gas-tax-hike-needed/article_4ac5061c-269d-573c-9fd9-bdbfc378690d.html) quotes Commissioner Schroer as saying that, after the election, Gov. Haslam will introduce a bill to the General Assembly, and one argument in favor of the bill is that Tennessee is falling behind neighboring states:

Quote
Tennessee's Commissioner of Transportation told local and state leaders Wednesday that the governor is working on a bill that could increase the gas tax across the Volunteer State.
Last November, Gov. Bill Haslam traveled the state to try to get lawmakers to raise the state's motor vehicle fuels tax to fund improving the state's roadways, but by January he decided against proposing the bill.
According to Transportation Commissioner John Schroer, the bill will be introduced in the 2017 General Assembly ....
"We're really just talking about where we're going and how transportation affects the economy and jobs across the state,"  he said. "A good transportation network creates job opportunities in every region. This year, I only had $30 million to fund projects that can bring in jobs. I can't do that much longer when competing with other states. We are one of five states that has done absolutely nothing to fund transportation. And I don't want to be a state that does absolutely nothing."
Virginia, North Carolina and Georgia have all changed their laws to ensure they could fund road projects.
North Carolina reduced the gas tax from 36 cents to 30 cents, but increased registration fees among other things, which enabled them to raise $352 million. Virginia threw out its gas tax and put a wholesale tax on gasoline that comes into the state, which increased its budget to $1.4 billion annually. And Georgia raised its gas tax 6 cents, put fees on electric cars and approved a hotel/motel fee to pay for roads.
According to Schroer, Tennessee can't stay competitive with those kinds of numbers being spent on roads.
"Those states have done some pretty strong funding,"  he said. "And our ability to come up with the money to do the types of projects that are job specific is getting harder and harder."

At least Schroer is aware that Tennessee is doing nothing and is trying to change it.

This Oct. 20 article (http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/politics/2016/10/20/haslam-still-working-gas-tax-plan-pitch/92469354/) reports that Gov. Haslam is still refining his plan:

Quote
When the dust from this year's election settles, Tennessee lawmakers are expected to face the prospect of raising the state's gas tax, an idea Gov. Bill Haslam discussed on Thursday ....
For months, Haslam and members of his administration have been highlighting that the state's 21.4 cent per gallon tax has been in place for almost 30 years, as part of a larger effort to call for an increase.
Even with Tennessee's booming economy and continued population growth, which have helped bolster the state budget, the Haslam administration is hoping to convince Tennesseans and state lawmakers of the need for increasing the tax ....
On Thursday, Haslam said the details of a gas tax plan are still be discussed ....
Haslam balked at the idea of having the state borrow money to help pay for all the infrastructure needs, while equating Tennessee's road system to a farming operation that had been handed down from generation to generation.
"They passed it on to you debt free," he said. "Before you pass it on to your kids, I'm going to put some debt on it. Well that's just not right. You inherited something that's been this way for a long time. You shouldn't pass it on with debt when you didn't get it with debt. I feel real strongly about that." ....
When asked if he thinks the argument about not borrowing more money to address the state's infrastructure needs will convince not only Tennesseans but also lawmakers – who would ultimately have to approve a gas tax increase – Haslam said, "We'll see."

Incidentally, the timing of the SIU 8 FEIS would occur about the same time as a passed bill. They may have to identify a feasible source of funding for at least part of it. I don't recall the exact requirement.

edit

* I-69 was included as a project that would be expedited by increased transportation funding:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3841.msg2104792#msg2104792
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on January 07, 2017, 11:49:38 AM
This January 4 article (http://www.knoxnews.com/story/news/local/2017/01/04/haslam-talks-health-gas-tax/96127488/) reports that Tennessee Governor Bill Haslam recently spoke in Jackson and, among other things, promoted his idea of a gas tax that would be used to fund I-69, which he called "critical" to West Tennessee:

Quote
Gas tax
Haslam wouldn't say how much of an increase is being considered, but said he is in the middle of conversation with legislators about Tennessee's first gas-tax increase in a quarter-century.
"We obviously have to do something that can get passed,"  Haslam said. "I think everybody agrees we have to do something; the question now is what."
While the state has some surplus money, it can't be spent on an ongoing transportation plan, Haslam said.
Road projects have piled up across the state, leading to calls for a gas tax to provide for those backlogged projects.
Haslam said a tax needs to be reasonable while meeting needs in communities, such as Interstate 69, which he called "critical"  to West Tennessee.

This January 3 article (http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/politics/state/story/2017/jan/03/tennessee-lawmaker-gov-haslam-state-transportation-chief-mull-9-cent-gas-tax-increase/405696/) reports that Haslam has floated a trial balloon of a nine-cent gas tax increase and a twelve-cent diesel tax increase before making his official proposal.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on January 15, 2017, 02:56:14 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on January 16, 2016, 03:25:56 PM
TDOT has posted the south of US 51 to south of TN 5 project on its February 12, 2016 Letting page (https://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/Const_February_2016_Notice.pdf):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FQdc9Ada.jpg&hash=6efe814d2a931a35ae1847c4e716765edf605c7a)
Allowing approximately 3.5 years to complete a grading and structures project by October 31, 2019 seems like an unnecessarily long period of time to do so.

Google Maps has updated its imagery of I-69 construction on the south side of Union City (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.3959247,-89.0953517,1673m/data=!3m1!1e3).
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on January 15, 2017, 05:34:32 PM
Why has there been nothing done on the north side of Union City? I was there back in the fall, and there is absolutely nothing visible from TN 21 going toward the state line. Seems to me that a bypass of US 51 from the north side of town to the south side would be of more use than the section that's under construction now.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: froggie on January 16, 2017, 08:09:12 AM
I've never understood why they didn't utilize more of the existing bypass.  At a minimum, the east-west leg of the existing bypass (from west of TN 21 to TN 22) could have easily been used, saving both time and money.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on January 16, 2017, 10:02:40 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 15, 2017, 05:34:32 PM
Why has there been nothing done on the north side of Union City? I was there back in the fall, and there is absolutely nothing visible from TN 21 going toward the state line. Seems to me that a bypass of US 51 from the north side of town to the south side would be of more use than the section that's under construction now.

Segments 3, 4, and 5 all need to be complete to bypass Union City.  Segment 4 is built but not paved.  Segment 3 is being built.  Segment 5 has not had work done yet.

I have to assume they will do segment 5 next to complete the bypass and then pave it all at once.  That would give I-69 a functional bypass around Union City.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwpsd.images.worldnow.com%2Fimages%2F10606217_G.jpg&hash=cc7278a5075cb9abfee5f90b0178907a281d5219)
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: LM117 on January 16, 2017, 10:43:00 AM
Wasn't there a proposal for TN-22 to become an I-x69 between Union City and Martin? 
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on January 16, 2017, 12:12:05 PM
As far as I know it is still a proposal.  From what I understand from various web pages (and AA Roads) is that the road is already built to interstate standards.

All they have to do is connect it to I-69.  Not sure how far those plans have gotten.

Hopefully they will build the interchange itself while building I-69, so all they have to do is make a short connection.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: froggie on January 16, 2017, 12:56:18 PM
^ Not completely Interstate-standard.  Some shoulder/median work would have to be done along TN 22 as well as lengthening some ramp acceleration lanes (particularly the NB on-ramp from US 45W in Union City), and the existing US 51/TN 22 interchange would need to be upgraded as well as it has at-grade junctions on TN 22.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on January 16, 2017, 04:13:48 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on January 16, 2017, 10:02:40 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 15, 2017, 05:34:32 PM
Why has there been nothing done on the north side of Union City? I was there back in the fall, and there is absolutely nothing visible from TN 21 going toward the state line. Seems to me that a bypass of US 51 from the north side of town to the south side would be of more use than the section that's under construction now.

Segments 3, 4, and 5 all need to be complete to bypass Union City.  Segment 4 is built but not paved.  Segment 3 is being built.  Segment 5 has not had work done yet.

I have to assume they will do segment 5 next to complete the bypass and then pave it all at once.  That would give I-69 a functional bypass around Union City.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwpsd.images.worldnow.com%2Fimages%2F10606217_G.jpg&hash=cc7278a5075cb9abfee5f90b0178907a281d5219)

Your map isn't correct. Either that, or your descriptions are wrong. I was there back in the fall and drove TN 21 north all the way from US 51 to the state line. There is NO work visible where I-69 would cross TN 21.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: rickmastfan67 on January 16, 2017, 09:26:31 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on January 16, 2017, 10:02:40 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 15, 2017, 05:34:32 PM
Why has there been nothing done on the north side of Union City? I was there back in the fall, and there is absolutely nothing visible from TN 21 going toward the state line. Seems to me that a bypass of US 51 from the north side of town to the south side would be of more use than the section that's under construction now.

Segments 3, 4, and 5 all need to be complete to bypass Union City.  Segment 4 is built but not paved.  Segment 3 is being built.  Segment 5 has not had work done yet.

I have to assume they will do segment 5 next to complete the bypass and then pave it all at once.  That would give I-69 a functional bypass around Union City.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwpsd.images.worldnow.com%2Fimages%2F10606217_G.jpg&hash=cc7278a5075cb9abfee5f90b0178907a281d5219)

I thought it was Section 3 that was built but not paved (the gray one).  And no work had been done on 4 (the green one).  And that work has just started on the 'pink' one.  At least this is what the 2016 NAIP imagery from TN supports (it shows grading work at the location for the US-51 interchange in the 'pink' section).
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: rte66man on January 17, 2017, 07:41:47 AM
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on January 16, 2017, 09:26:31 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on January 16, 2017, 10:02:40 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 15, 2017, 05:34:32 PM
Why has there been nothing done on the north side of Union City? I was there back in the fall, and there is absolutely nothing visible from TN 21 going toward the state line. Seems to me that a bypass of US 51 from the north side of town to the south side would be of more use than the section that's under construction now.

Segments 3, 4, and 5 all need to be complete to bypass Union City.  Segment 4 is built but not paved.  Segment 3 is being built.  Segment 5 has not had work done yet.

I have to assume they will do segment 5 next to complete the bypass and then pave it all at once.  That would give I-69 a functional bypass around Union City.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwpsd.images.worldnow.com%2Fimages%2F10606217_G.jpg&hash=cc7278a5075cb9abfee5f90b0178907a281d5219)

I thought it was Section 3 that was built but not paved (the gray one).  And no work had been done on 4 (the green one).  And that work has just started on the 'pink' one.  At least this is what the 2016 NAIP imagery from TN supports (it shows grading work at the location for the US-51 interchange in the 'pink' section).

You are correct sir.  Was there a few months ago and visually confirmed.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on January 17, 2017, 09:12:31 AM
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on January 16, 2017, 09:26:31 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on January 16, 2017, 10:02:40 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 15, 2017, 05:34:32 PM
Why has there been nothing done on the north side of Union City? I was there back in the fall, and there is absolutely nothing visible from TN 21 going toward the state line. Seems to me that a bypass of US 51 from the north side of town to the south side would be of more use than the section that's under construction now.

Segments 3, 4, and 5 all need to be complete to bypass Union City.  Segment 4 is built but not paved.  Segment 3 is being built.  Segment 5 has not had work done yet.

I have to assume they will do segment 5 next to complete the bypass and then pave it all at once.  That would give I-69 a functional bypass around Union City.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwpsd.images.worldnow.com%2Fimages%2F10606217_G.jpg&hash=cc7278a5075cb9abfee5f90b0178907a281d5219)

I thought it was Section 3 that was built but not paved (the gray one).  And no work had been done on 4 (the green one).  And that work has just started on the 'pink' one.  At least this is what the 2016 NAIP imagery from TN supports (it shows grading work at the location for the US-51 interchange in the 'pink' section).

I think the numbers on that map are off.  My understanding was that:

Green - 5 - Not started
Gray - 4 - Built but not paved
Pink - 3 - Under construction
Blue - 2 - Not started
Red - 1 - Not started (Goes off the map.)
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on January 17, 2017, 09:20:41 AM
Quote from: froggie on January 16, 2017, 12:56:18 PM
^ Not completely Interstate-standard.  Some shoulder/median work would have to be done along TN 22 as well as lengthening some ramp acceleration lanes (particularly the NB on-ramp from US 45W in Union City), and the existing US 51/TN 22 interchange would need to be upgraded as well as it has at-grade junctions on TN 22.

My mistake.  Though it does not sound like there is not all that much to do, relatively speaking.

The big part is connecting I-x69 (TN-22) to the mainline north of Union City. 
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: lordsutch on January 17, 2017, 03:33:03 PM
Quote from: LM117 on January 16, 2017, 10:43:00 AM
Wasn't there a proposal for TN-22 to become an I-x69 between Union City and Martin? 

To elaborate on Froggie's response, there was a "proposal" from chamber of commerce types, but I don't think it ever had a lot of serious backing; I'm not even sure the Tyson chicken plant that motivated the extension of the TN 22 freeway as an eastern Union City bypass is still operating.

When I asked TDOT about connectivity to the TN 22 freeway from I-69, they indicated it would be indirect via the residual US 51 freeway stub rather than any connection directly aligned with TN 22.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: LM117 on January 17, 2017, 04:46:10 PM
Quote from: lordsutch on January 17, 2017, 03:33:03 PM
Quote from: LM117 on January 16, 2017, 10:43:00 AM
Wasn't there a proposal for TN-22 to become an I-x69 between Union City and Martin? 

To elaborate on Froggie's response, there was a "proposal" from chamber of commerce types, but I don't think it ever had a lot of serious backing; I'm not even sure the Tyson chicken plant that motivated the extension of the TN 22 freeway as an eastern Union City bypass is still operating.

When I asked TDOT about connectivity to the TN 22 freeway from I-69, they indicated it would be indirect via the residual US 51 freeway stub rather than any connection directly aligned with TN 22.

According to Google Maps, the Tyson plant is still operating and based on what you just said about TDOT, it sounds like an I-x69 won't be happening anytime soon, if at all.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on January 18, 2017, 04:38:57 PM
Once the Interstate 155-to-Kentucky portion is complete, maybe they can make plans on constructing the Memphis-to-Interstate 155 segment. It probably won't be constructed for a long time, though.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on January 23, 2017, 11:55:15 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 18, 2017, 04:38:57 PM
Once the Interstate 155-to-Kentucky portion is complete, maybe they can make plans on constructing the Memphis-to-Interstate 155 segment. It probably won't be constructed for a long time, though.

From what I understand from reading multiple articles concerning I-69 in Tennessee, it appears that TDOT is going to punt on completing SIU-8 between I-155 and I-269 in Millington until the feds commit funding to complete environmental studies, ROW acquisition and construction.  TDOT's current priority is completing the bypass around Union City.  Section 3 is under construction, and my understanding is Section 5 between TN-21 and US-51 north of Union City should be let sometime soon, depending on funding availability.  My suspicion is that TDOT would then focus on completing the bypass around Troy (Sections 1 and 2) and working with Kentucky to reconstruct the interchange with the Purchase Parkway at South Fulton.  Still, just getting I-69 completed from the Kentucky line to Dyersburg is many years off, and I doubt I'll see the road completed between Dyersburg and Millington in my lifetime. 
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: froggie on January 24, 2017, 01:41:12 PM
Quote from: abqtravelerFrom what I understand from reading multiple articles concerning I-69 in Tennessee, it appears that TDOT is going to punt on completing SIU-8 between I-155 and I-269 in Millington until the feds commit funding to complete environmental studies, ROW acquisition and construction.

Given that Federal highway funding is basically given as a block grant to the states, and it's up to the state as to what to do with it (subject to limitations such as which roads it can be used on and providing a state funding match, amongst others), it sounds like it's not enough of a TDOT priority to finish environmental studies.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on January 24, 2017, 11:38:49 PM
Quote from: froggie on January 24, 2017, 01:41:12 PM
Quote from: abqtravelerFrom what I understand from reading multiple articles concerning I-69 in Tennessee, it appears that TDOT is going to punt on completing SIU-8 between I-155 and I-269 in Millington until the feds commit funding to complete environmental studies, ROW acquisition and construction.

Given that Federal highway funding is basically given as a block grant to the states, and it's up to the state as to what to do with it (subject to limitations such as which roads it can be used on and providing a state funding match, amongst others), it sounds like it's not enough of a TDOT priority to finish environmental studies.

I recall some years ago the Tennessee Legislature passed a bill authorizing toll roads with completing certain portions of I-69 in mind, but I think Tennessee would rather try to avoid building the Dyersburg-Millington section of I-69 if they could somehow convince the FHWA (and the states of Missouri and Arkansas) to route I-69 west along I-155 past Dyersburg and over the Mississippi River to I-55 near Hayti, Missouri, and then follow I-55 south to West Memphis, Arkansas.  Of course that would result in I-269 being an Interstate cul-de-sac at its northern end in Millington. 

Once I-69 is rerouted to West Memphis, Arkansas, one can make a decision for I-69 to cross back into Tennessee following I-55 and rejoin its originally planned route into Mississippi, or follow I-40 West to Little Rock and I-30 to Texarkana, where it could take over the planned I-369 spur route into Texas. 
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: codyg1985 on January 25, 2017, 09:46:57 AM
Quote from: abqtraveler on January 24, 2017, 11:38:49 PM
Once I-69 is rerouted to West Memphis, Arkansas, one can make a decision for I-69 to cross back into Tennessee following I-55 and rejoin its originally planned route into Mississippi, or follow I-40 West to Little Rock and I-30 to Texarkana, where it could take over the planned I-369 spur route into Texas. 

I contend this is the more direct way to handle it. Spend the money that was going to be poured into I-69 and put it towards widening I-55, I-40, and I-30 along the inevitable multiplexes that would be created.

Or, instead of routing along I-55 and I-40, connect I-155 with the US 67 freeway.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on January 25, 2017, 06:02:53 PM
Quote from: codyg1985 on January 25, 2017, 09:46:57 AM
Quote from: abqtraveler on January 24, 2017, 11:38:49 PM
Once I-69 is rerouted to West Memphis, Arkansas, one can make a decision for I-69 to cross back into Tennessee following I-55 and rejoin its originally planned route into Mississippi, or follow I-40 West to Little Rock and I-30 to Texarkana, where it could take over the planned I-369 spur route into Texas. 

I contend this is the more direct way to handle it. Spend the money that was going to be poured into I-69 and put it towards widening I-55, I-40, and I-30 along the inevitable multiplexes that would be created.

Or, instead of routing along I-55 and I-40, connect I-155 with the US 67 freeway.

All well and good, but doing anything of the sort would require modifications to or a major rewrite of the HPC-18/20 authorizing legislation -- which wouldn't likely happen unless the congressional delegations of all five states affected -- along with those states' DOT's and the political structure that supports them -- would go along with the truncation and reroute.  And since it would affect AR and MS the most (bye-bye, Great River Bridge), such actions would likely stall or even die soon after introduction.  It's likely I-69 will be developed as planned, but on a very extended (close to glacial!) timeframe.   
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on January 26, 2017, 09:57:23 PM
I get the feeling that Tennessee wants the feds to pony up 100 percent of the costs of I-69, over and above what other highway money the state might get, since the construction of I-69 is basically a federal mandate -- and what amounts to an unfunded mandate of the money for 69 has to be siphoned from other projects Tennessee wants or needs more.

Of course, I don't think US 51 needs to be an interstate. It's fine as a four-lane surface route.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: cjk374 on January 27, 2017, 09:09:00 PM
Quote from: codyg1985 on January 25, 2017, 09:46:57 AM
Quote from: abqtraveler on January 24, 2017, 11:38:49 PM
Once I-69 is rerouted to West Memphis, Arkansas, one can make a decision for I-69 to cross back into Tennessee following I-55 and rejoin its originally planned route into Mississippi, or follow I-40 West to Little Rock and I-30 to Texarkana, where it could take over the planned I-369 spur route into Texas. 

I contend this is the more direct way to handle it. Spend the money that was going to be poured into I-69 and put it towards widening I-55, I-40, and I-30 along the inevitable multiplexes that would be created.

Or, instead of routing along I-55 and I-40, connect I-155 with the US 67 freeway.

This would be the biggest money saving move for Arkansas & Louisiana....maybe a couple million dollars of signs versus a few billion dollars of unneeded pavement in unneeded places.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Anthony_JK on January 28, 2017, 02:35:57 AM
Quote from: cjk374 on January 27, 2017, 09:09:00 PM
This would be the biggest money saving move for Arkansas & Louisiana....maybe a couple million dollars of signs versus a few billion dollars of unneeded pavement in unneeded places.

Except that it would kick I-69 completely out of LA and southern AR, and deny Shreveport the chance to complete its full loop. Unless Shreveport gets the I-49 Inner City Connector as a consolation, and US 165/US 425 is upgraded through LA/MS as a I-530 extension, there would be a revolt. Plus, that would violate the original HPC alignment passed by Congress for I-69.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: cjk374 on January 28, 2017, 09:24:21 AM
Quote from: Anthony_JK on January 28, 2017, 02:35:57 AM
Quote from: cjk374 on January 27, 2017, 09:09:00 PM
This would be the biggest money saving move for Arkansas & Louisiana....maybe a couple million dollars of signs versus a few billion dollars of unneeded pavement in unneeded places.

Except that it would kick I-69 completely out of LA and southern AR, and deny Shreveport the chance to complete its full loop.

Shreveport really doesn't need I-69 to complete the loop. If they want it bad enough, they can build it.

QuoteUnless Shreveport gets the I-49 Inner City Connector as a consolation, and US 165/US 425 is upgraded through LA/MS as a I-530 extension, there would be a revolt.

Personally, I don't see a problem with Shreveport getting the ICC built. It will take a lil bit more fighting with the NIMBYs, but I feel the DOTD will win.  I would also love to see the money planned to build I-69 shift to become funds for the US 165/425 upgrades. I feel like it would serve the public better.

Let them eat cake.  :-D

QuotePlus, that would violate the original HPC alignment passed by Congress for I-69.

HPCs can be rewritten & changed...right?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on January 29, 2017, 02:14:15 AM
Quote from: cjk374 on January 28, 2017, 09:24:21 AM
QuotePlus, that would violate the original HPC alignment passed by Congress for I-69.

HPCs can be rewritten & changed...right?

In theory, yes -- they're just an amendable piece of legislation.  In practice, not so much.  The HPC's are often the closest thing to institutionalized earmarks in the federal transportation compendium; amending them without the approval of those representatives whose districts a corridor traverses is considered bad form by all but the most ideological of politicos (and can lead to loss of correspondent favors if not outright reprisals!).  The sole form of amendment to any of the 80-odd extant corridors that has passed muster to date is a reiterative corridor definition that adds a specific designation to one previously designated (such as HPC 72 overlaying HPC 1 but adding the I-49 designation to the language; HPC 10 was overwritten by HPC 45, which specified I-22 for the routing). 

However, the most common way to deal with a HPC that garners little local or national support after designation is to simply ignore it -- and just don't fund it!  Plenty of corridors have languished (e.g. 19, 43, 51) with little to show for the legislative effort save a "spot" project or two at best.  However, some corridors like HPC 18/I-69 have been around long enough to have built up a "lore" of sorts, whether positive or negative; that lore can, alternately, often publicize a corridor or call attention to its negative aspects.   
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Bobby5280 on January 29, 2017, 02:22:48 AM
I certainly do not see Arkansas abandoning its portion of I-69 through the southern part of its state in favor of an I-40 and I-30 multiplexed routing to Texarkana. They're already building parts of the Monticello bypass. They have I-69 plans trying to go forward in the El Dorado and McGehee areas. But that route does involve a leap of faith that Mississippi can get its own portion of I-69 built and help fund construction of the Great River Bridge project.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: codyg1985 on January 30, 2017, 07:46:05 AM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on January 29, 2017, 02:22:48 AM
I certainly do not see Arkansas abandoning its portion of I-69 through the southern part of its state in favor of an I-40 and I-30 multiplexed routing to Texarkana. They're already building parts of the Monticello bypass. They have I-69 plans trying to go forward in the El Dorado and McGehee areas. But that route does involve a leap of faith that Mississippi can get its own portion of I-69 built and help fund construction of the Great River Bridge project.

If Arkansas can move forward with its portion then it would at least provide a nice alternative to US 278 and US 82 across the southern part of the state, assuming that the road is built completely with access control (unlike AR 530).
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Bobby5280 on January 30, 2017, 10:18:13 AM
Given the current crappy funding situation for highways I would not be surprised at all to see Arkansas treat its portion of the I-69 corridor the same way it has treated the Belle Vista bypass and AR-530 (future I-530 extension to I-69). Buy up the ROW needed, but only build a Super 2 road either with freeway style exits or just a limited number of at-grade intersections.

Individual states are being forced to pay most of the costs of these highway projects on their own. The federal government is no longer picking up a giant percentage of the tab. That's regardless of the fact the Interstate highway system does as much to benefit the entire nation on the whole as it does any individual state or local area. To compound the lunacy of the funding picture most states rely on flat gasoline tax levels that have done nothing at all to keep up with the insane price inflation rates of road construction costs. Oklahoma's funding model hasn't changed since the early 1990's. But I can guarantee no one anywhere (except maybe China) can build a new highway at early 1990's price levels.

When someone jokes, "we'll all probably be dead and gone before this road is finished," there is a lot more truth to it than mere humor.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Avalanchez71 on January 30, 2017, 08:35:18 PM
The juice is not there.  We shall see if State Senate Majority Leader Mark Norris (R) gives the nod to run for office of Governor.  There is a revolt going on in Tennessee at the moment in reference to road construction and taxing.  Middle Tennessee is growing leaps and bounds as compared to this area.  The current governor wants to raise the gas tax.  The majority of Tennesseans' are in opposition to this.

There is no juice and no cash to expand I-69 in NW Tennessee. 
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: codyg1985 on January 31, 2017, 07:19:38 AM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on January 30, 2017, 08:35:18 PM
The juice is not there.  We shall see if State Senate Majority Leader Mark Norris (R) gives the nod to run for office of Governor.  There is a revolt going on in Tennessee at the moment in reference to road construction and taxing.  Middle Tennessee is growing leaps and bounds as compared to this area.  The current governor wants to raise the gas tax.  The majority of Tennesseans' are in opposition to this.

There is no juice and no cash to expand I-69 in NW Tennessee. 

I know this is getting a bit off-topic, but I think that for the major freeways feeding into Nashville that clog up during rush hour (I-24 between downtown and Murfreesboro, I-65 between Franklin and downtown, and Vietnam Vets feeding into I-65), would benefit from toll lanes. Tennessee Highway Patrol heavily patrols the use of the HOV lanes, but the HOV lanes aren't having enough of an impact to reduce congestion, it would seem.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on January 31, 2017, 07:20:50 AM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on January 30, 2017, 08:35:18 PM
The juice is not there.  We shall see if State Senate Majority Leader Mark Norris (R) gives the nod to run for office of Governor.  There is a revolt going on in Tennessee at the moment in reference to road construction and taxing.  Middle Tennessee is growing leaps and bounds as compared to this area.  The current governor wants to raise the gas tax.  The majority of Tennesseans' are in opposition to this.

There is no juice and no cash to expand I-69 in NW Tennessee.

With Trump's intent to renegotiate NAFTA, I would think the need for completing I-69 would become less a priority since there would no longer be the need for a seamless route from Canada to Mexico.  Most of the route has been finished north of Dyersburg, so I would say complete what's left to be finished between Indianapolis and Dyersburg, and call it good.  I'm curious if legislation will emerge in Congress to kill off I-69 south of Dyersburg, since there is no real need for the highway (and no real hope of it ever being built) south of that point.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Bobby5280 on January 31, 2017, 10:17:23 AM
Progress should be allowed to continue on most of the I-69 projects in Texas regardless of NAFTA. There is well over one million people living in the Brownsville-Harlingen-McAllen-Edinburg MSA. It's by far the most populated area in the United States not directly connected to the rest of the Interstate highway system. It's pretty easy to justify a Houston-Corpus Christi Interstate connection. US-59 NE of Houston is a major trucking route, so that's another one that's easy to justify. Maybe those upgraded roads in Texas could carry a different Interstate number. But I don't know how costly it would be to change all those I-69 signs to something like "I-47".

Out of I-69 projects in Texas, I think the I-69W Victoria-George West-Freer-Laredo segment would be the very last to be completed. US-281 (I-69C) connects San Antonio with the far South Rio Grande Valley.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Anthony_JK on January 31, 2017, 10:41:58 AM
Quote from: abqtraveler on January 31, 2017, 07:20:50 AM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on January 30, 2017, 08:35:18 PM
The juice is not there.  We shall see if State Senate Majority Leader Mark Norris (R) gives the nod to run for office of Governor.  There is a revolt going on in Tennessee at the moment in reference to road construction and taxing.  Middle Tennessee is growing leaps and bounds as compared to this area.  The current governor wants to raise the gas tax.  The majority of Tennesseans' are in opposition to this.

There is no juice and no cash to expand I-69 in NW Tennessee.

With Trump's intent to renegotiate NAFTA, I would think the need for completing I-69 would become less a priority since there would no longer be the need for a seamless route from Canada to Mexico.  Most of the route has been finished north of Dyersburg, so I would say complete what's left to be finished between Indianapolis and Dyersburg, and call it good.  I'm curious if legislation will emerge in Congress to kill off I-69 south of Dyersburg, since there is no real need for the highway (and no real hope of it ever being built) south of that point.

I can't see Congress killing I-69 between Dyersburg and Memphis, especially since I-269 needs a northern terminus for its loop around Greater Memphis, and I don't really think Memphis would take too kindly to being bypassed, which would especially happen if the Southern Gateway bypass was built and I-69 rerouted through there. (Would I-269 be extended along the old I-69 alignment between Tunica and I-55 if that happened?)

If the LA/southern AR/MS segments of I-69 were indeed revoked, then the Memphis/Union City/Evansville/Indianapolis segment should be redesignated with a new number...say, I-61 or I-63. Then, you could make a case for Laredo-Fleer-Corpus Christi-Victoria-Houston-Texarkana being I-47.

Still don't see it happening, since the consensus so far is to keep a single corridor defined by law.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Buck87 on January 31, 2017, 11:39:18 AM
Quote from: Anthony_JK on January 31, 2017, 10:41:58 AM

If the LA/southern AR/MS segments of I-69 were indeed revoked, then the Memphis/Union City/Evansville/Indianapolis segment should be redesignated with a new number...say, I-61 or I-63. Then, you could make a case for Laredo-Fleer-Corpus Christi-Victoria-Houston-Texarkana being I-47.

I can agree on making the Texas portion I-47, but don't see any reason to change the number of the Indy-Memphis portion.

Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Bobby5280 on January 31, 2017, 04:10:14 PM
Quote from: Anthony_JKI can't see Congress killing I-69 between Dyersburg and Memphis, especially since I-269 needs a northern terminus for its loop around Greater Memphis, and I don't really think Memphis would take too kindly to being bypassed, which would especially happen if the Southern Gateway bypass was built and I-69 rerouted through there. (Would I-269 be extended along the old I-69 alignment between Tunica and I-55 if that happened?)

I think it would make more sense to build a new Mississippi River bridge near Tunica than 100 miles farther South where I-69 is currently proposed to cross.

A river crossing near Tunica would be more useful to a wider variety of traffic. It would do a lot more than just let gambling traffic on I-40 in Arkansas get to Tunica more easily. I-40 would have a more direct connection with I-22 and points farther Southeast. I-69 could possibly be directed on a route in Arkansas more likely to be built. If the bridge had tolls it would more likely generate the revenue needed to pay for itself. The Great River Bridge is not likely to have traffic counts high enough to place tolls on it; the entire thing would have to be funded with tax money.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on January 31, 2017, 04:28:10 PM
Quote from: abqtraveler on January 31, 2017, 07:20:50 AM
With Trump's intent to renegotiate NAFTA, I would think the need for completing I-69 would become less a priority since there would no longer be the need for a seamless route from Canada to Mexico.

HPC 18 has been there for 26 years and as a designated Interstate for 22 of those.  Somehow, I think the concept will outlast the Trump presidency, although any new development activities may be less forthcoming for the next few years (at least outside of TX and KY, where such impetus is motivated by local interests and the presence of existing facilities, respectively).
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on February 06, 2017, 09:57:16 AM
Google maps has updated their satellite photos around Union City, Tenn.  It now shows the construction of Section 3 of Segment 7.

You can make out the roadbed and the interchanges with TN 184 and US 51

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.4094609,-89.0908863,5035m/data=!3m1!1e3
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Anthony_JK on February 06, 2017, 12:11:54 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on January 31, 2017, 04:10:14 PM
Quote from: Anthony_JKI can't see Congress killing I-69 between Dyersburg and Memphis, especially since I-269 needs a northern terminus for its loop around Greater Memphis, and I don't really think Memphis would take too kindly to being bypassed, which would especially happen if the Southern Gateway bypass was built and I-69 rerouted through there. (Would I-269 be extended along the old I-69 alignment between Tunica and I-55 if that happened?)

I think it would make more sense to build a new Mississippi River bridge near Tunica than 100 miles farther South where I-69 is currently proposed to cross.

A river crossing near Tunica would be more useful to a wider variety of traffic. It would do a lot more than just let gambling traffic on I-40 in Arkansas get to Tunica more easily. I-40 would have a more direct connection with I-22 and points farther Southeast. I-69 could possibly be directed on a route in Arkansas more likely to be built. If the bridge had tolls it would more likely generate the revenue needed to pay for itself. The Great River Bridge is not likely to have traffic counts high enough to place tolls on it; the entire thing would have to be funded with tax money.

The big issue, though, is that a Tunica Southern Crossing would be more suitable as either an extension of I-269 or a possible extension of I-22 to the west and northwest. Simply rerouting I-69 along I-30 and I-40 to West Memphis, then overlaying I-55 north of there would essentially bypass Metro Memphis, which would be a non-starter. The proposed location for the I-69 Mississippi River Bridge at least fills a feasible gap between the US 82 and US 49 bridges, while allowing for a direct access between Houston/Shreveport and Memphis.

I'm still under the assumption that I-69 will ultimately be built under its current alignment, even if delayed a bit due to funding issues. Simply pushing traffic onto existing corridors without upgrading them to meet the additional traffic is not smart planning, even if it saves money in the immediate smart term.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Bobby5280 on February 06, 2017, 12:33:19 PM
I wasn't suggesting pushing I-69 onto I-40 and I-30. Nevertheless, a Mississippi River bridge crossing near Tunica (and possibly an extension of I-269 or I-22 to I-40) would be far more useful. My thought is that I-69 could cross there and cut down through Eastern Arkansas (from Marianna to Monticello and El Dorado on the way to Shreveport). I think it's more likely Arkansas would be able to build such an I-69 segment. Mississippi's financial situation casts a lot of doubt they'll be able to build their leg of I-69 in the foreseeable future.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: froggie on February 06, 2017, 12:43:37 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280I think it's more likely Arkansas would be able to build such an I-69 segment.

You have far more faith in Arkansas than the rest of us.  AHTD is only now getting a US 67 freeway up to Walnut Ridge and building some sort of bypass around Bella Vista.  Both have been on the books for a number of decades.  And at some point in the not too distant future, they'll have to address the I-55 river crossing with TDOT...it would not survive a "New Madrid" repeat (and it's questionable whether the I-40 DeSoto Bridge would, either).  All this points to priorities elsewhere and an unlikelihood of I-69 in Arkansas in the forseeable future.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on February 06, 2017, 02:41:50 PM
Quote from: froggie on February 06, 2017, 12:43:37 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280I think it's more likely Arkansas would be able to build such an I-69 segment.

You have far more faith in Arkansas than the rest of us.  AHTD is only now getting a US 67 freeway up to Walnut Ridge and building some sort of bypass around Bella Vista.  Both have been on the books for a number of decades.  And at some point in the not too distant future, they'll have to address the I-55 river crossing with TDOT...it would not survive a "New Madrid" repeat (and it's questionable whether the I-40 DeSoto Bridge would, either).  All this points to priorities elsewhere and an unlikelihood of I-69 in Arkansas in the forseeable future.

Unless Congress brings back earmarks, which I don't see happening either.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Bobby5280 on February 06, 2017, 02:56:16 PM
I didn't mean to imply the state of Arkansas was in great financial shape. But the state does appear to be in better economic shape than Mississippi. If Arkansas is going to complete road projects like US-67 (future I-57) and I-49 at a very slow, glacial pace I think Mississippi will make progress at an even slower pace.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Life in Paradise on February 06, 2017, 03:34:25 PM
The Tunica (or north of Tunica) crossing into Arkansas would only be beneficial if you have a spur that would go west to about Forest City, so it would be some sort of bypass of Memphis.  Truth remains, though that if you cross the Mississippi that far north you not only have to span that river, but then require Arkansas to span the Arkansas River as well.  By putting the crossing near McGehee, you only have to cross the Mississippi (at a cost that would be close to that if done near Memphis).  Tis true, that the fact that there are only two crossings from Tenessee to Arkansas for almost 100 miles in each direction (OK, perhaps 50 miles to US49) will cause a major problem sometime in the future.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Bobby5280 on February 06, 2017, 09:25:25 PM
Quote from: Life in ParadiseThe Tunica (or north of Tunica) crossing into Arkansas would only be beneficial if you have a spur that would go west to about Forest City, so it would be some sort of bypass of Memphis.

I thought I suggested a Tunica Interstate crossing over the Mississippi hooking into I-40 in Arkansas. A few miles East of Forrest City would be good.

Quote from: Life in ParadiseTruth remains, though that if you cross the Mississippi that far north you not only have to span that river, but then require Arkansas to span the Arkansas River as well.  By putting the crossing near McGehee, you only have to cross the Mississippi (at a cost that would be close to that if done near Memphis).  Tis true, that the fact that there are only two crossings from Tenessee to Arkansas for almost 100 miles in each direction (OK, perhaps 50 miles to US49) will cause a major problem sometime in the future.

Another Arkansas River crossing would indeed be a penalty for putting that leg of I-69 on the West side of the Mississippi. But bridges over the Arkansas River do not need to be built nearly as high as those spanning the Mississippi. If the AR-1 bridge had adequate shoulders it could be incorporated into an I-69 route (with twin bridges spanning the river there). But it's not up to Interstate standards.

One bright side is people from Pine Bluff and other parts of SE Arkansas could make far more use of a Tunica crossing to the Memphis area than they would with one down at McGehee.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: adventurernumber1 on February 06, 2017, 11:51:28 PM
I think that the I-69 Great River Bridge should cross the Mississippi River where it is planned to do so. I also absolutely think that the Memphis area could use a third, large bridge across the river. I have always found I-69's planned routing across Arkansas to be quite peculiar - I don't seem to understand why it makes such a big bend in the state - is it meant to connect up with a possible I-530 extension?? Also, while I am aware that both Arkansas and Mississippi do not have much money to spend at all, and the possible fact that Mississippi is even worse off than Arkansas, AR will be quite busy with I-49 and a possible interstate designation for the US 67 corridor - perhaps I am to say that if we routed I-69 over the Mississippi River near Tunica, that would be giving AR a little too much of a burden when it comes to building interstates. While MS will be busy finishing up Interstate 22 and a possible future, far-fetched I-14 - which is all that I am aware of - it is not quite as much work as AR has on its platter. It would probably be best to route I-69 as is through that region of Mississippi, and it will even give the gambling region an interstate corridor.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: adventurernumber1 on February 07, 2017, 01:36:44 AM
Come to think of it, this is in the "I-69 in TN" thread, so we might be getting a bit off-topic. My apologies for contributing to the off-topic-ness.


EDIT: I'm no moderator, but since this has been a pretty lively discussion on I-69 in Mississippi and Arkansas, and where the I-69 Bridge should be, and more, it would probably be advised that this specific discussion be continued onto Page 4 of the "General I-69" thread: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=13977.75
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on February 08, 2017, 09:32:56 PM
Quote from: adventurernumber1 on February 06, 2017, 11:51:28 PM
I think that the I-69 Great River Bridge should cross the Mississippi River where it is planned to do so. I also absolutely think that the Memphis area could use a third, large bridge across the river. I have always found I-69's planned routing across Arkansas to be quite peculiar - I don't seem to understand why it makes such a big bend in the state - is it meant to connect up with a possible I-530 extension?? Also, while I am aware that both Arkansas and Mississippi do not have much money to spend at all, and the possible fact that Mississippi is even worse off than Arkansas, AR will be quite busy with I-49 and a possible interstate designation for the US 67 corridor - perhaps I am to say that if we routed I-69 over the Mississippi River near Tunica, that would be giving AR a little too much of a burden when it comes to building interstates. While MS will be busy finishing up Interstate 22 and a possible future, far-fetched I-14 - which is all that I am aware of - it is not quite as much work as AR has on its platter. It would probably be best to route I-69 as is through that region of Mississippi, and it will even give the gambling region an interstate corridor.

The I-69 segment from Shreveport to Memphis was designed to address several regional issues:  the ongoing lack of development in Southern Arkansas (the presence of I-69 is intended to ameliorate the area's isolation), the lack of economic opportunity within the Mississippi Delta area along US 61, and the perceived need for a new (and possibly multimodal) bridge across the Mississippi River.  All are speculative, of course; as is the routing itself; its basic function can be accomplished by extant routings including a largely all-Interstate path that includes I-49, I-30, and I-40 -- although perennial congestion on the latter two may serve as an additional I-69 rationale.  That being said, the cross-AR route paralleling US 278 is specifically intended to segue straight to the Great River Bridge site, chosen because it's below the Arkansas River confluence with the Mississippi.  And, yes, the southern 530 (I- and AR) extension is intended to intersect I-69 west of Monticello; 530 south of Pine Bluff is legislatively a branch of the HPC 18/I-69 corridor.  However, all things considered, this segment of the I-69 overall corridor is widely considered to be the least pressing in terms of present or near-term need -- and equally considered to be the most politically motivated in terms of the planning & development process -- and broadly criticized as such.     
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: lordsutch on February 09, 2017, 03:24:04 PM
Gov. Haslam is rolling out a push for a transportation funding bill (https://www.tn.gov/nexttennessee/topic/nt-the-improve-press-release) that includes increases in the gax tax and other fees; the accompanying project needs map (https://www.tdot.tn.gov/projectneeds/spot#/) shows several SIU 7 and SIU 8(!) projects being funded as part of the additional stream. It also includes the I-69/240 midtown widening project between I-40 and I-55.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: adventurernumber1 on February 09, 2017, 09:46:07 PM
Quote from: sparker on February 08, 2017, 09:32:56 PM
Quote from: adventurernumber1 on February 06, 2017, 11:51:28 PM
I think that the I-69 Great River Bridge should cross the Mississippi River where it is planned to do so. I also absolutely think that the Memphis area could use a third, large bridge across the river. I have always found I-69's planned routing across Arkansas to be quite peculiar - I don't seem to understand why it makes such a big bend in the state - is it meant to connect up with a possible I-530 extension?? Also, while I am aware that both Arkansas and Mississippi do not have much money to spend at all, and the possible fact that Mississippi is even worse off than Arkansas, AR will be quite busy with I-49 and a possible interstate designation for the US 67 corridor - perhaps I am to say that if we routed I-69 over the Mississippi River near Tunica, that would be giving AR a little too much of a burden when it comes to building interstates. While MS will be busy finishing up Interstate 22 and a possible future, far-fetched I-14 - which is all that I am aware of - it is not quite as much work as AR has on its platter. It would probably be best to route I-69 as is through that region of Mississippi, and it will even give the gambling region an interstate corridor.

The I-69 segment from Shreveport to Memphis was designed to address several regional issues:  the ongoing lack of development in Southern Arkansas (the presence of I-69 is intended to ameliorate the area's isolation), the lack of economic opportunity within the Mississippi Delta area along US 61, and the perceived need for a new (and possibly multimodal) bridge across the Mississippi River.  All are speculative, of course; as is the routing itself; its basic function can be accomplished by extant routings including a largely all-Interstate path that includes I-49, I-30, and I-40 -- although perennial congestion on the latter two may serve as an additional I-69 rationale.  That being said, the cross-AR route paralleling US 278 is specifically intended to segue straight to the Great River Bridge site, chosen because it's below the Arkansas River confluence with the Mississippi.  And, yes, the southern 530 (I- and AR) extension is intended to intersect I-69 west of Monticello; 530 south of Pine Bluff is legislatively a branch of the HPC 18/I-69 corridor.  However, all things considered, this segment of the I-69 overall corridor is widely considered to be the least pressing in terms of present or near-term need -- and equally considered to be the most politically motivated in terms of the planning & development process -- and broadly criticized as such.     

Thank you for the information. I agree that Interstate 69 in Arkansas will probably be the last of it to be built.


____________________________________________________________________________


Now to stay on topic with Interstate 69 in Tennessee, I have a question about such. I feel silly for not knowing this already, and I also apologize if this has already been answered upthread, but what exactly is going to be the plan with Interstate 155?  :hmmm:
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: froggie on February 09, 2017, 09:56:30 PM
In short (and assuming the latter is ever built), I-155 will end at I-69.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: mvak36 on February 10, 2017, 10:08:15 AM
Quote from: lordsutch on February 09, 2017, 03:24:04 PM
Gov. Haslam is rolling out a push for a transportation funding bill (https://www.tn.gov/nexttennessee/topic/nt-the-improve-press-release) that includes increases in the gax tax and other fees; the accompanying project needs map (https://www.tdot.tn.gov/projectneeds/spot#/) shows several SIU 7 and SIU 8(!) projects being funded as part of the additional stream. It also includes the I-69/240 midtown widening project between I-40 and I-55.

So is this going to be voted on by the people or will this just be passed by the legislators? Are the chances good for it passing?

Also, I-65 from Nashville to the Kentucky State line and I-24 from I-40 to I-840 were listed in the projects list. I wonder if they're gonna involve adding new lanes.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Buck87 on February 10, 2017, 10:55:42 AM
Quote from: mvak36 on February 10, 2017, 10:08:15 AM
Quote from: lordsutch on February 09, 2017, 03:24:04 PM
Gov. Haslam is rolling out a push for a transportation funding bill (https://www.tn.gov/nexttennessee/topic/nt-the-improve-press-release) that includes increases in the gax tax and other fees; the accompanying project needs map (https://www.tdot.tn.gov/projectneeds/spot#/) shows several SIU 7 and SIU 8(!) projects being funded as part of the additional stream. It also includes the I-69/240 midtown widening project between I-40 and I-55.

So is this going to be voted on by the people or will this just be passed by the legislators? Are the chances good for it passing?

Also, I-65 from Nashville to the Kentucky State line and I-24 from I-40 to I-840 were listed in the projects list. I wonder if they're gonna involve adding new lanes.

The I-65 project has a vague title, but it does say an estimated cost of $397.4 Million for 51 miles, which sounds about right for 6 laning it, which is what that section needs IMO.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on February 10, 2017, 01:43:28 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on November 09, 2015, 02:31:35 PM
This TDOT press release (https://www.tn.gov/news/19387) announces the release, by Gov. Haslam, of two highway project lists: (a) currently backlogged projects (https://www.tdot.tn.gov/ProjectNeeds/Images/documents/Backlog-Projects-for-11-9-15.pdf), and (b) new projects (https://www.tdot.tn.gov/ProjectNeeds/Images/documents/New-Projects-for-11-9-15.pdf), as part of his public relations campaign to identify increased transportation funding in Tennessee:
Quote
Joined by Department of Transportation (TDOT) Commissioner John Schroer, Haslam also released two transportation projects lists: a list of 181 backlogged projects that will not be completed or at least under contract until 2034; and a list of 765 new project needs that cannot be considered until 2022 at the earliest, if ever.
In a mild surprise to me, I-69 SIU 8 is included in the backlogged projects list (along with the remaining SIU 7 and SIU 9 projects), even though a Final Environmental Impact Statement has not been released ....
In a bit of a disappointment, the state line connection to Kentucky is considered a "new" project that cannot currently be considered until 2022, at the earliest
Quote from: lordsutch on February 09, 2017, 03:24:04 PM
Gov. Haslam is rolling out a push for a transportation funding bill (https://www.tn.gov/nexttennessee/topic/nt-the-improve-press-release) that includes increases in the gax tax and other fees; the accompanying project needs map (https://www.tdot.tn.gov/projectneeds/spot#/) shows several SIU 7 and SIU 8(!) projects being funded as part of the additional stream. It also includes the I-69/240 midtown widening project between I-40 and I-55.

Al of the projects necessary to complete SIU 7 have apparently been included (including the Kentucky state line connection). It is interesting which SIU 8 projects were included: they are concentrated in Lauderdale County, in the middle of SIU 8. The IMPROVE Act map (https://www.tdot.tn.gov/projectneeds/spot#/) provides a good illustration:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_10_02_17_2_44_16.png)

I guess it was a "spread the wealth" approach to make it politically feasible.

Also, no new terrain SIU 9 projects were included. Maybe if the Lamar Avenue upgrades get the FASTLANE grant, then the money could be shifted to I-69 SIU 9.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: mvak36 on February 10, 2017, 03:12:24 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on February 10, 2017, 01:43:28 PM

Quote from: lordsutch on February 09, 2017, 03:24:04 PM
Gov. Haslam is rolling out a push for a transportation funding bill (https://www.tn.gov/nexttennessee/topic/nt-the-improve-press-release) that includes increases in the gax tax and other fees; the accompanying project needs map (https://www.tdot.tn.gov/projectneeds/spot#/) shows several SIU 7 and SIU 8(!) projects being funded as part of the additional stream. It also includes the I-69/240 midtown widening project between I-40 and I-55.

Al of the projects necessary to complete SIU 7 have apparently been included (including the Kentucky state line connection). It is interesting which SIU 8 projects were included: they are concentrated in Lauderdale County, in the middle of SIU 8. The IMPROVE Act map (https://www.tdot.tn.gov/projectneeds/spot#/) provides a good illustration:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_10_02_17_2_44_16.png)

I guess it was a "spread the wealth" approach to make it politically feasible.

Also, no new terrain SIU 9 projects were included. Maybe if the Lamar Avenue upgrades get the FASTLANE grant, then the money could be shifted to I-69 SIU 9.

That's great news. It's progress at least. Now I'm really hoping it passes (instead of wondering if it will) :sombrero:.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on February 11, 2017, 07:14:32 PM
Quote from: adventurernumber1 on February 09, 2017, 09:46:07 PM
Quote from: sparker on February 08, 2017, 09:32:56 PM
Quote from: adventurernumber1 on February 06, 2017, 11:51:28 PM
I think that the I-69 Great River Bridge should cross the Mississippi River where it is planned to do so. I also absolutely think that the Memphis area could use a third, large bridge across the river. I have always found I-69's planned routing across Arkansas to be quite peculiar - I don't seem to understand why it makes such a big bend in the state - is it meant to connect up with a possible I-530 extension?? Also, while I am aware that both Arkansas and Mississippi do not have much money to spend at all, and the possible fact that Mississippi is even worse off than Arkansas, AR will be quite busy with I-49 and a possible interstate designation for the US 67 corridor - perhaps I am to say that if we routed I-69 over the Mississippi River near Tunica, that would be giving AR a little too much of a burden when it comes to building interstates. While MS will be busy finishing up Interstate 22 and a possible future, far-fetched I-14 - which is all that I am aware of - it is not quite as much work as AR has on its platter. It would probably be best to route I-69 as is through that region of Mississippi, and it will even give the gambling region an interstate corridor.

The I-69 segment from Shreveport to Memphis was designed to address several regional issues:  the ongoing lack of development in Southern Arkansas (the presence of I-69 is intended to ameliorate the area's isolation), the lack of economic opportunity within the Mississippi Delta area along US 61, and the perceived need for a new (and possibly multimodal) bridge across the Mississippi River.  All are speculative, of course; as is the routing itself; its basic function can be accomplished by extant routings including a largely all-Interstate path that includes I-49, I-30, and I-40 -- although perennial congestion on the latter two may serve as an additional I-69 rationale.  That being said, the cross-AR route paralleling US 278 is specifically intended to segue straight to the Great River Bridge site, chosen because it's below the Arkansas River confluence with the Mississippi.  And, yes, the southern 530 (I- and AR) extension is intended to intersect I-69 west of Monticello; 530 south of Pine Bluff is legislatively a branch of the HPC 18/I-69 corridor.  However, all things considered, this segment of the I-69 overall corridor is widely considered to be the least pressing in terms of present or near-term need -- and equally considered to be the most politically motivated in terms of the planning & development process -- and broadly criticized as such.     

Thank you for the information. I agree that Interstate 69 in Arkansas will probably be the last of it to be built.


____________________________________________________________________________


Now to stay on topic with Interstate 69 in Tennessee, I have a question about such. I feel silly for not knowing this already, and I also apologize if this has already been answered upthread, but what exactly is going to be the plan with Interstate 155?  :hmmm:

The I-69/I-155 Interchange will be built just to the west of Dyersburg.

https://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/i-69s03.pdf
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Revive 755 on February 11, 2017, 08:42:49 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on February 11, 2017, 07:14:32 PM
The I-69/I-155 Interchange will be built just to the west of Dyersburg.

https://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/i-69s03.pdf

Am I correct in assume only one of the two pairs of rest areas shown on that map is actually planned to be built and the other was just an alternative?  I do not recall Tennessee going for frequent rest areas as Iowa does on I-80 (seems to be one every 30 miles).
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: lordsutch on February 11, 2017, 10:39:01 PM
TDOT hasn't gotten to the design stage, so the number of rest areas is up in the air at this point. I know there's also a welcome center planned for SIU 7 (but I don't think anything else is planned in either direction).

My guess is only one pair will ultimately be built to save costs, since existing US 51 just has one rest area between Millington and Dyersburg, but they may have different ideas.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Henry on February 13, 2017, 09:12:12 AM
Well, at least that's a start.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: aboges26 on February 14, 2017, 10:07:49 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on February 11, 2017, 07:14:32 PM
The I-69/I-155 Interchange will be built just to the west of Dyersburg.

https://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/i-69s03.pdf

In the link to the map that you posted1, I notice I-155 written between where I-69 heads south and US 412 takes off southeast to Jackson, TN.  Is I-155 slated to stay signed on this segment for a possible extension down US 412 to I-40 if US 412 ever got upgraded to interstate?

The routing of I-69 between Memphis and I-155 seems to be a very strategic link to St. Louis for Memphis-St. Louis traffic to avoid crossing the Mississippi at the bottleneck that is the I-40/55 multiplex, especially by placing the interchange to the west of Dyersburg.  Furthermore, if US 412 was upgraded to interstate standards it would provide an alternative east-west interstate quality crossing of the Mississippi, providing a long detour/bypass around Memphis to the north (albeit far north).  Anyone know the earthquake rating of the I-155 bridge over the Mississippi?  Would it survive New Madrid quakes that the I-40 and I-50 bridges in Memphis?

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi67.tinypic.com%2F35i1xue.jpg&hash=bb048f212d70dbccac2854fd70245599cb2188b6)

1
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi64.tinypic.com%2F9fsdh5.jpg&hash=296d20f335c2d0c27d6a5f015ff2e3ffaeadab6d)
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: lordsutch on February 14, 2017, 10:27:32 PM
Quote from: aboges26 on February 14, 2017, 10:07:49 PM
In the link to the map that you posted1, I notice I-155 written between where I-69 heads south and US 412 takes off southeast to Jackson, TN.  Is I-155 slated to stay signed on this segment for a possible extension down US 412 to I-40 if US 412 ever got upgraded to interstate?

I doubt it. US 412 to Jackson is a rural expressway with a 65 mph speed limit already, and I don't see TDOT upgrading the route more except maybe for spot safety improvements. If they were going to build it to freeway standards, they'd have done it when they built the TN 22 and US 51 freeways in the same region.

If it did have to be pressed into service as a temporary I-40 diversion route (or to replace the I-24 crossing at Paducah), TDOT could close pretty much all of the median crossings to keep traffic moving.

QuoteAnyone know the earthquake rating of the I-155 bridge over the Mississippi?  Would it survive New Madrid quakes that the I-40 and I-50 bridges in Memphis?

I believe the I-155 bridge is at least as seismically safe as the I-40 ("new") bridge, as it dates from roughly the same period; both have had seismic retrofits since construction as well. The I-55 bridge will almost certainly collapse into the river in any big quake and retrofitting it has long been ruled out.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on February 14, 2017, 10:35:36 PM
Quote from: aboges26 on February 14, 2017, 10:07:49 PM
Anyone know the earthquake rating of the I-155 bridge over the Mississippi?  Would it survive New Madrid quakes that the I-40 and I-50 bridges in Memphis?

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=6535.msg2088849#msg2088849

Quote from: Grzrd on August 25, 2015, 05:24:58 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on May 15, 2013, 11:18:04 AM
This June 2011 study (http://www.southerngatewayproject.com/library/CP-1%20Package%20with%20Agency%20Lts%20and%20Responses.pdf) discusses which bridges may collapse if there is another "big one" (page 22/112 of pdf; page 18 of document):
Quote
North of Memphis:
• I-155 in Dyersburg, Tennessee (75 miles north of Memphis) – This bridge is likely to collapse during an earthquake similar to the 1811-1812 events that occurred in the NMSZ ....
This article about repairs being made to the I-155 bridge (http://www.stategazette.com/story/2224733.html) made me think of this thread because of the understated way it discusses the potential impact of a large earthquake on the bridge:
Quote
The I-155 Caruthersville Bridge is the northernmost bridge over the Lower Mississippi River, with the combined flow of the Upper Mississippi and the Ohio River ....
The Caruthersville Bridge sits in a geologically interesting place in that it is only 6 miles from the New Madrid Fault. A 1993/1994 study found that bedrock was located 2700 feet under the surface, so a significant earthquake event would almost certainly create severe liquefaction. The bridge as it stands would not hold up to liquefaction.
Otherwise, the article has some interesting historical and other information about the bridge.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: aboges26 on February 14, 2017, 11:39:07 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on February 14, 2017, 10:35:36 PM
Quote from: aboges26 on February 14, 2017, 10:07:49 PM
Anyone know the earthquake rating of the I-155 bridge over the Mississippi?  Would it survive New Madrid quakes that the I-40 and I-50 bridges in Memphis?

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=6535.msg2088849#msg2088849

Quote from: Grzrd on August 25, 2015, 05:24:58 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on May 15, 2013, 11:18:04 AM
This June 2011 study (http://www.southerngatewayproject.com/library/CP-1%20Package%20with%20Agency%20Lts%20and%20Responses.pdf) discusses which bridges may collapse if there is another "big one" (page 22/112 of pdf; page 18 of document):
Quote
North of Memphis:
- I-155 in Dyersburg, Tennessee (75 miles north of Memphis) — This bridge is likely to collapse during an earthquake similar to the 1811-1812 events that occurred in the NMSZ ....
This article about repairs being made to the I-155 bridge (http://www.stategazette.com/story/2224733.html) made me think of this thread because of the understated way it discusses the potential impact of a large earthquake on the bridge:
Quote
The I-155 Caruthersville Bridge is the northernmost bridge over the Lower Mississippi River, with the combined flow of the Upper Mississippi and the Ohio River ....
The Caruthersville Bridge sits in a geologically interesting place in that it is only 6 miles from the New Madrid Fault. A 1993/1994 study found that bedrock was located 2700 feet under the surface, so a significant earthquake event would almost certainly create severe liquefaction. The bridge as it stands would not hold up to liquefaction.
Otherwise, the article has some interesting historical and other information about the bridge.

Thank you for directing me, that sure makes me feel better to know its chances! 
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on February 21, 2017, 08:43:51 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on October 11, 2015, 11:31:37 AM
Quote from: Grzrd on September 06, 2015, 03:09:01 PM
The Jackson Tourism website (http://jacksontn.com/tourism/news/detail/165) has posted an article about the August 28 groundbreaking for the Memphis I-55/(currently unsigned) I-69 Welcome Center that projects an opening in Fall 2016
This October 5 article (http://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/news/2015/10/05/state-begins-construction-on-futuristic-new.html), which includes four slides depicting what the I-55/69 Welcome Center will look like, reports that the construction permit was obtained on October 2

This article (http://www.commercialappeal.com/story/money/2017/02/20/-55-center-designed-not-equipped-net-zero-energy-use/98150746/) (with an accompanying video) reports that the I-55/69 Welcome Center is now scheduled to open in mid-Spring and that it will not be a fully net-zero building at opening:

Quote
Tennessee's newest Welcome Center in Memphis is designed – but not equipped – to use less energy than it generates when it opens in mid-spring.
The Welcome Center, perched off the northbound Interstate 55 lanes in Whitehaven, is nearly ready to offer travelers entering Tennessee from Mississippi a break as well as the usual information on things to do and see in Memphis and Tennessee.
Construction crews are down to the small, punch-list chores in completing the $2.1 million building.
But one item not on the to-do list: Installing enough solar panels to allow the building to generate as much or more electricity than it consumes. Such buildings are also known as "net-zero energy'' structures.
As built, the Welcome Center's photo voltaic solar array appears to cover less than half the south-facing rooftop. The panels are enough to generate 22 percent of the power needed for a net-zero building.

"We didn't have additional funds available,'' Nichole Lawrence, spokeswoman for the Tennessee Department of Transportation, said in an email. "The state may be able to add additional panels through an 'Energy Grant' as 'Federal' and/or 'State' programs are implemented and/or reauthorized.''
If and when that money becomes available, expanding the solar array will be easy, said architect Matt Seltzer of archimania.
Archimania designed the building to provide plenty of space to enlarge the solar-panel system "in a plug-and-play sort of manner until you either replaced or exceeded the amount of energy needed to keep this thing running over the course of a year,'' Seltzer said ....
The old welcome center on the same 14-acre site was demolished in spring 2012. The project was delayed in 2013 when bids came in over budget, forcing the state to redesign and rebid the work.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on March 01, 2017, 09:00:59 PM
This Jan. 25 article (http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/politics/state/story/2017/jan/25/tennessee-sends-11-billion-seven-road-wish-list-trump/409517/) reports that I-69 in Obion County (SIU 7) was among seven projects submitted to the Trump Administration for consideration in the infrastructure plan:

Quote
The Haslam administration has submitted a seven-item list of priority state road projects totaling $1.16 billion for President Donald Trump's administration to consider.
Tennessee is among states that have offered up such lists of "shovel ready" but unfunded projects to the National Governors Association at the request of Trump's then-transition team ....
The Volunteer State list includes a stretch of U.S. 127 in Cumberland and Fentress counties north of Chattanooga.
Trump's request didn't seek cost estimates but figures provided Wednesday by the Haslam officials to the Times Free Press shows a price tag on the planned improvements of the highway and bridges is projected at $159.4 million ....
In addition to U.S. 127, other projects on the list being forwarded to the Trump administration are:
* Alcoa Highway - Knox County/Blount County - $183.1 million
* Lamar Avenue - Memphis - $252 million
* I-440 - Nashville - $50 million
* State Route 109 - Wilson County - $18.5 million
* I-40 - Jackson - $66.3 million
* I-69 - Obion County - $236.7 million.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on April 19, 2017, 07:11:29 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on February 10, 2017, 01:43:28 PM
Al of the projects necessary to complete SIU 7 have apparently been included (including the Kentucky state line connection). It is interesting which SIU 8 projects were included: they are concentrated in Lauderdale County, in the middle of SIU 8. The IMPROVE Act map (https://www.tdot.tn.gov/projectneeds/spot#/) provides a good illustration:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_10_02_17_2_44_16.png)
I guess it was a "spread the wealth" approach to make it politically feasible.
Also, no new terrain SIU 9 projects were included. Maybe if the Lamar Avenue upgrades get the FASTLANE grant, then the money could be shifted to I-69 SIU 9.

This article (http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/politics/state/story/2017/apr/19/haslam-optimistic-gtax-bill-vote-today-oppone/423564/) reports that Gov. Haslam's IMPROVE Act legislation passed the Tennessee House and Senate today. It has to go back to the House for some minor reconciliation language, but it appears to be a done deal:

Quote
The state House this afternoon approved Tennessee's first gas tax increase in 28 years, voting 60-37 for Republican Gov. Bill Haslam's proposed IMPROVE Act.
Senators quickly followed suit, voting 25-6 for the measure.
But the Senate-passed bill will have to go back to the House because it differs from the lower chamber's version.
The House vote came at the end of a nearly 4 1/2 hour debate in which the Republican majority warred with itself over the fuel increases to help the state tackle an estimated $10.5 billion backlog of 962 specifically identified road and bridge projects across the state ....

Now, in regard to SIU 8 and the Lauderdale County projects (as well as the Kentucky state line section), TDOT needs to hurry up and finish the respective Final Environmental Impact Statements and submit them to the FHWA for Records of Decision.
Title: I-69 in TN
Post by: mvak36 on April 19, 2017, 08:25:15 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on April 19, 2017, 07:11:29 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on February 10, 2017, 01:43:28 PM
Al of the projects necessary to complete SIU 7 have apparently been included (including the Kentucky state line connection). It is interesting which SIU 8 projects were included: they are concentrated in Lauderdale County, in the middle of SIU 8. The IMPROVE Act map (https://www.tdot.tn.gov/projectneeds/spot#/) provides a good illustration:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_10_02_17_2_44_16.png)
I guess it was a "spread the wealth" approach to make it politically feasible.
Also, no new terrain SIU 9 projects were included. Maybe if the Lamar Avenue upgrades get the FASTLANE grant, then the money could be shifted to I-69 SIU 9.

This article (http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/politics/state/story/2017/apr/19/haslam-optimistic-gtax-bill-vote-today-oppone/423564/) reports that Gov. Haslam's IMPROVE Act legislation passed the Tennessee House and Senate today. It has to go back to the House for some minor reconciliation language, but it appears to be a done deal:

Quote
The state House this afternoon approved Tennessee's first gas tax increase in 28 years, voting 60-37 for Republican Gov. Bill Haslam's proposed IMPROVE Act.
Senators quickly followed suit, voting 25-6 for the measure.
But the Senate-passed bill will have to go back to the House because it differs from the lower chamber's version.
The House vote came at the end of a nearly 4 1/2 hour debate in which the Republican majority warred with itself over the fuel increases to help the state tackle an estimated $10.5 billion backlog of 962 specifically identified road and bridge projects across the state ....

Now, in regard to SIU 8 and the Lauderdale County projects (as well as the Kentucky state line section), TDOT needs to hurry up and finish the respective Final Environmental Impact Statements and submit them to the FHWA for Records of Decision.

That's great news. One step closer to completion between Indy and Memphis.

Also, it gets me a little closer to the prediction I made last year :bigass:. Although Section 6 in IN will cut it close
Quote from: mvak36 on January 29, 2016, 05:09:31 PM
I wouldn't be suprised if, in the next decade, I-69 goes all the way from the TN-KY border near Fulton all the way to Canada.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: codyg1985 on April 20, 2017, 08:15:45 AM
IMO if I-69 is completed northeast of Dyersburg it would be a functional corridor. I-69 between Dyersburg and Memphis would be icing on the cake.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: mvak36 on April 20, 2017, 10:11:56 AM
Quote from: codyg1985 on April 20, 2017, 08:15:45 AM
IMO if I-69 is completed northeast of Dyersburg it would be a functional corridor. I-69 between Dyersburg and Memphis would be icing on the cake.

I agree. I think they can slowly work their way down to Memphis once they get SIU 7 done.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Henry on April 20, 2017, 10:21:40 AM
Quote from: mvak36 on April 20, 2017, 10:11:56 AM
Quote from: codyg1985 on April 20, 2017, 08:15:45 AM
IMO if I-69 is completed northeast of Dyersburg it would be a functional corridor. I-69 between Dyersburg and Memphis would be icing on the cake.

I agree. I think they can slowly work their way down to Memphis once they get SIU 7 done.
It would be great to have a direct connection between Indy and Memphis. Maybe not in our lifetimes, but hopefully soon.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: mvak36 on May 08, 2017, 11:08:38 AM
I emailed TDOT a couple of weeks ago after the IMPROVE Act passed. I asked them about when they were going to list the projects they will be doing for their 3 year plan and also about the I-69 SIU 7. Here's the reply I got.

QuoteThe overall time frame for delivering projects on the Improve Act list is 13-14 years.  As far as the schedule for individual projects, we are currently working to develop a prioritization list for the next 3 years.  Please continue to visit our website at http://www.tn.gov/tdot/ over the upcoming days for a listing of these projects.

The I-69 SIU 7 from Troy to the Kentucky State Line has several construction projects that are at differing phases of development. Starting south and working towards the Kentucky they are as follows:

1)      From 1.2 miles south of SR  183 to 0.2 miles south of SR 21 (Troy/Rives Road)–the construction plans are near completion.
2)      From South of SR 21 (Troy/Rives Road) to South of SR 3 (US 51)–the construction plans are near completion.
3)      South of SR5 to West of SR 21-  this project is being staged constructed– we have already let a grade and drain project to a contractor and will follow up with a paving project to be let to contract in the future.
4)      From South of SR 5 to West of SR 21–this project is being staged constructed–we have already let a grade and drain project to a contractor and will follow up with a paving project to be let to contract in the future.
5)      From West of SR 21 to SR 3 (US 51) near Mayberry Road–the construction plans are near completion on this section as well.
6)      From Rogers Rd in Kentucky to SR 3 (US 45 W & US 51) in Obion County (5.0 miles)–this section is currently in the Environmental Phase with Preliminary Engineering  phase to follow.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on May 08, 2017, 02:17:31 PM
Quote from: mvak36 on May 08, 2017, 11:08:38 AM
I emailed TDOT a couple of weeks ago after the IMPROVE Act passed. I asked them about when they were going to list the projects they will be doing for their 3 year plan and also about the I-69 SIU 7. Here's the reply I got.

QuoteThe overall time frame for delivering projects on the Improve Act list is 13-14 years.  As far as the schedule for individual projects, we are currently working to develop a prioritization list for the next 3 years.  Please continue to visit our website at http://www.tn.gov/tdot/ over the upcoming days for a listing of these projects.

The I-69 SIU 7 from Troy to the Kentucky State Line has several construction projects that are at differing phases of development. Starting south and working towards the Kentucky they are as follows:

1)      From 1.2 miles south of SR  183 to 0.2 miles south of SR 21 (Troy/Rives Road)–the construction plans are near completion.
2)      From South of SR 21 (Troy/Rives Road) to South of SR 3 (US 51)–the construction plans are near completion.
3)      South of SR5 to West of SR 21-  this project is being staged constructed– we have already let a grade and drain project to a contractor and will follow up with a paving project to be let to contract in the future.
4)      From South of SR 5 to West of SR 21–this project is being staged constructed–we have already let a grade and drain project to a contractor and will follow up with a paving project to be let to contract in the future.
5)      From West of SR 21 to SR 3 (US 51) near Mayberry Road–the construction plans are near completion on this section as well.
6)      From Rogers Rd in Kentucky to SR 3 (US 45 W & US 51) in Obion County (5.0 miles)–this section is currently in the Environmental Phase with Preliminary Engineering  phase to follow.

Looks like only 2 of the 6 segments have been let; the remainder in various planning stages -- with no time frame attached.  Not really all that encouraging for the near term -- probably completion is at least 7-10 years out.  This doesn't portend well for SIU 8 within a 20/25-or-so-year window!
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: I-39 on May 08, 2017, 02:21:11 PM
So when will we see a completed section of I-69 in Tennessee?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on May 08, 2017, 02:49:26 PM
Quote from: I-39 on May 08, 2017, 02:21:11 PM
So when will we see a completed section of I-69 in Tennessee?

Don't hold your breath!  The existing US 51 freeway needs at least inside shoulder widening from Dyersburg to Troy; there may be a few under height bridges to deal with as well.  The bypasses of Troy and Union City, while in progress, really don't connect to anything at their ends as of yet -- and the previous few posts indicate the rather slow process to get the remainder to the KY line developed.  I wouldn't expect to see the first I-69 reassurance signs for at least 5-7 years (and that's being optimistic!).   
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on May 08, 2017, 03:07:28 PM
Quote from: mvak36 on May 08, 2017, 11:08:38 AM
I emailed TDOT a couple of weeks ago after the IMPROVE Act passed. I asked them about when they were going to list the projects they will be doing for their 3 year plan and also about the I-69 SIU 7. Here's the reply I got.
Quote
.... 6)     From Rogers Rd in Kentucky to SR 3 (US 45 W & US 51) in Obion County (5.0 miles)–this section is currently in the Environmental Phase with Preliminary Engineering  phase to follow.

I can't tell if they chose Alternative 1 or Alternative 2 from the December, 2015 meeting (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3841.msg2146133#msg2146133):

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_25_05_16_11_54_38.png)

I guess they are still trying to figure it out in the environmental phase.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: lordsutch on May 08, 2017, 08:15:23 PM
Quote from: sparker on May 08, 2017, 02:49:26 PM
Quote from: I-39 on May 08, 2017, 02:21:11 PM
So when will we see a completed section of I-69 in Tennessee?

Don't hold your breath!  The existing US 51 freeway needs at least inside shoulder widening from Dyersburg to Troy; there may be a few under height bridges to deal with as well.  The bypasses of Troy and Union City, while in progress, really don't connect to anything at their ends as of yet -- and the previous few posts indicate the rather slow process to get the remainder to the KY line developed.  I wouldn't expect to see the first I-69 reassurance signs for at least 5-7 years (and that's being optimistic!).   

I'm sure the inner shoulder will get a design exception. AFAIK none of the bridges are posted and, I believe, date from the 80s, so I'm pretty sure they were built to modern height standards (unlike the Kentucky parkways that weren't even built to the Interstate standards of the day).

A continuous freeway (with an interim configuration at South Fulton to close the median) could be in place within 5 years if TDOT acquires ROW and lets all 3 segments (except #6, which is more of a housekeeping item necessary for the long-term but not for current volumes) at once. My guess though is that it gets piecemealed over a longer period unless there's a big influx of federal money for shovel-ready projects.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on May 09, 2017, 11:13:13 AM
There's a lot of I-69 SIU 7 planned for FY 2020 in the FY 2018-20 Three Year Plan (http://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/Three_Year_Transportation_Plan_(FY_18-20).pdf) (pp. 9-10/21 of pdf):

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_09_05_17_11_23_20.png)
....
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_09_05_17_11_10_52.png)

There's also revised ROW acquisition for I-69/I-240 (p.12/21 of pdf):

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_09_05_17_11_39_06.png)

No Lauderdale County/SIU 8 projects, though.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on May 09, 2017, 05:31:35 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on May 09, 2017, 11:13:13 AM
There's also revised ROW acquisition for I-69/I-240 (p.12/21 of pdf):

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_09_05_17_11_39_06.png)

Is TnDOT planning on widening this segment of 69/240?  It's certainly been in service for a while -- driven on it several times myself in the '90's and early '00's.  Since the I-40 interchange was rebuilt years ago, does this project involve the reconfiguration of the I-55 interchange at the south end -- or is it simply addressing the freeway in between the interchanges as a stand-alone project? 

Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: codyg1985 on May 09, 2017, 07:34:30 PM
Quote from: sparker on May 09, 2017, 05:31:35 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on May 09, 2017, 11:13:13 AM
There's also revised ROW acquisition for I-69/I-240 (p.12/21 of pdf):

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_09_05_17_11_39_06.png)

Is TnDOT planning on widening this segment of 69/240?  It's certainly been in service for a while -- driven on it several times myself in the '90's and early '00's.  Since the I-40 interchange was rebuilt years ago, does this project involve the reconfiguration of the I-55 interchange at the south end -- or is it simply addressing the freeway in between the interchanges as a stand-alone project? 



Yes, I believe this is for a widening project. I would imagine that at that point TDOT may elect to apply to extend I-69 north to I-40.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: lordsutch on May 10, 2017, 02:44:45 AM
Quote from: sparker on May 09, 2017, 05:31:35 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on May 09, 2017, 11:13:13 AM
There's also revised ROW acquisition for I-69/I-240 (p.12/21 of pdf):

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_09_05_17_11_39_06.png)

Is TnDOT planning on widening this segment of 69/240?  It's certainly been in service for a while -- driven on it several times myself in the '90's and early '00's.  Since the I-40 interchange was rebuilt years ago, does this project involve the reconfiguration of the I-55 interchange at the south end -- or is it simply addressing the freeway in between the interchanges as a stand-alone project? 

Yep, TDOT is planning to add a lane in each direction, partially by narrowing the lanes to 11' from 12' to minimize the needed ROW. The plans I saw back in the day (early 2000s) would also remove some of the loop ramps at South Parkway and improve a few of the other ramps.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: I-39 on May 20, 2017, 11:58:13 AM
So what are the plans to address US 51/Chickasaw Dr interchange? They'll need to fix that before the I-69 designation comes into TN.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on May 23, 2017, 04:03:18 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on February 21, 2017, 08:43:51 PM
This article (http://www.commercialappeal.com/story/money/2017/02/20/-55-center-designed-not-equipped-net-zero-energy-use/98150746/) (with an accompanying video) reports that the I-55/69 Welcome Center is now scheduled to open in mid-Spring and that it will not be a fully net-zero building at opening

This TV video (http://www.localmemphis.com/news/local-news/new-state-of-the-art-tennessee-welcome-center-nearly-completed/718934110) reports that the opening for the I-55/69 Welcome Center is scheduled for June 23, should anyone be traveling that way this summer:

Quote
Welcome to Tennessee. After more than three years, construction on a new welcome center is nearly completed ....
The Visitor Center has been designed to be Net-Zero Energy, meaning the building can generate more energy than it uses over the course of a year ....
The welcome center will have a help desk, family restrooms, a pet walk, and parking for big rigs and RV's ....
The welcome center officially opens June 23rd.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on May 24, 2017, 07:32:39 PM
I recently emailed TDOT with some questions about the various projects.

First, as expected, the goal is to finish SIU 7 first:

Quote
Q: It looks like four SIU 7 projects are covered in the 3-yr. plan. Looking ahead, after the three years, is the next I-69 project scheduled to be from 1.2 miles south of SR 183 to 0.2 miles south of SR 21?
A: Yes, the goal is to complete all the sections for SIU 7 so that section will probably show up after the current three year plan.

Then, there is complicated coordination with Kentucky about the state line section:

Quote
Q: Then, it seems like the state line section would be next, if ready. Have TDOT and KYTC chosen the corridor yet?
A: The state line section will depend on when it is ready.  At this time it depends on when Kentucky will complete their environmental document and the Bi-State agreement between states on the scope of work.

Finally, the wait for a SIU 8 Record of Decison (ROD) could be a couple of years away:

Quote
Q: Finally, how is the FEIS on SIU 8 progressing? When do you expect a ROD on it?
A: I don't anticipate having a ROD until 2019 at the earliest.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: I-39 on May 24, 2017, 08:43:01 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on May 24, 2017, 07:32:39 PM
I recently emailed TDOT with some questions about the various projects.

First, as expected, the goal is to finish SIU 7 first:

Quote
Q: It looks like four SIU 7 projects are covered in the 3-yr. plan. Looking ahead, after the three years, is the next I-69 project scheduled to be from 1.2 miles south of SR 183 to 0.2 miles south of SR 21?
A: Yes, the goal is to complete all the sections for SIU 7 so that section will probably show up after the current three year plan.

Then, there is complicated coordination with Kentucky about the state line section:

Quote
Q: Then, it seems like the state line section would be next, if ready. Have TDOT and KYTC chosen the corridor yet?
A: The state line section will depend on when it is ready.  At this time it depends on when Kentucky will complete their environmental document and the Bi-State agreement between states on the scope of work.

Finally, the wait for a SIU 8 Record of Decison (ROD) could be a couple of years away:

Quote
Q: Finally, how is the FEIS on SIU 8 progressing? When do you expect a ROD on it?
A: I don't anticipate having a ROD until 2019 at the earliest.

So the sections that are funded in the three year plan, are they going to be completed all the way and opened to traffic, or are they just grading and paving will come later (like the current situation)?

Also, are there any preliminary maps regarding what they are considering at the state line (or any info in general)?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: brycecordry on July 29, 2017, 12:33:32 AM
Quote from: I-39 on May 24, 2017, 08:43:01 PM
Also, are there any preliminary maps regarding what they are considering at the state line (or any info in general)?

This is nothing official, but here is my concept. But then again state politicians always seem to create problems that are not there! :-)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1URDteA8SWyaEIyb2tEV1I1Zjg/view?usp=sharing
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: codyg1985 on July 29, 2017, 09:50:20 AM
Quote from: brycecordry on July 29, 2017, 12:33:32 AM
Quote from: I-39 on May 24, 2017, 08:43:01 PM
Also, are there any preliminary maps regarding what they are considering at the state line (or any info in general)?

This is nothing official, but here is my concept. But then again state politicians always seem to create problems that are not there! :-)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1URDteA8SWyaEIyb2tEV1I1Zjg/view?usp=sharing

That looks nice! Looks like it takes up minimal ROW
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: froggie on July 29, 2017, 06:19:32 PM
^ But it would run afoul of the northbound weigh station just north of the state line (and his rendering) unless he did something similar to what I did (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3618.msg2001930#msg2001930).

His is a bit more minimalist than mine, which may help with funding and construction.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: brycecordry on July 29, 2017, 07:43:43 PM
Quote from: froggie on July 29, 2017, 06:19:32 PM
^ But it would run afoul of the northbound weigh station just north of the state line (and his rendering) unless he did something similar to what I did (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3618.msg2001930#msg2001930).

His is a bit more minimalist than mine, which may help with funding and construction.

They could add a little slip-ramp at the north end of the curve to lead to the NB entrance ramp, which would become a C/D road. After the exits for Eastwood Dr and the Weigh Station, the entrance ramp could merge on.

And yes, almost all of my designs are minimalist. My concept for I-70 widening across Missouri utilizes only the median for the added room, and on my planned I-45 extension to Sault Ste. Marie, MI, about 75% of the route is along existing divided highway.

Maybe that will help me advocate for my plans. :-)
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: mgk920 on July 29, 2017, 10:20:01 PM
Thoughts that I posted a year or two ago had better separation between the interstate freeway traffic and the local road network, especially with that school in the SW quadrant of the current interchange and the need to establish and maintain safe and convenient non-freeway connections between it and the city to the east.

Mike

Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on July 30, 2017, 02:33:39 PM
I never understood the rationale for building a weigh station there. This is the only weigh station on a Kentucky parkway (the only other non-interstate semi-permanent weigh station I know of is on US 23 at the Floyd-Johnson county line, and I'd imagine it's not staffed all that often now due to the decline in coal truck traffic.) I'm pretty sure the construction of the Purchase Parkway in Kentucky predates the four-lane alignments of both US 51/45W and US 45E. I don't know the history of the weigh station or when it was built. I can foresee eliminating it and the KY 116/KY 166 interchange if necessary, since those routes can be accessed by either US 45 or the old US 51 alignment through Fulton.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Avalanchez71 on July 31, 2017, 08:34:30 PM
It is the only Parkway that actually terminates at a state line.  It could be that at the time the state received grant money from the Feds since it was at the state line.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on August 06, 2017, 01:24:27 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 30, 2017, 02:33:39 PM
I never understood the rationale for building a weigh station there. This is the only weigh station on a Kentucky parkway (the only other non-interstate semi-permanent weigh station I know of is on US 23 at the Floyd-Johnson county line, and I'd imagine it's not staffed all that often now due to the decline in coal truck traffic.) I'm pretty sure the construction of the Purchase Parkway in Kentucky predates the four-lane alignments of both US 51/45W and US 45E. I don't know the history of the weigh station or when it was built. I can foresee eliminating it and the KY 116/KY 166 interchange if necessary, since those routes can be accessed by either US 45 or the old US 51 alignment through Fulton.

I wasn't really paying attention to "entry" facilities the times I've driven through KY (always driving a passenger car or SUV); so I don't know how extensive the weigh-station aspect of those facilities is.  So the question I'm throwing out there is:  are there weigh station facilities at most -- or even every -- Interstate entrances to the state?  If that is the case, it would seem that the facility on the Purchase Parkway is "the exception that proves the rule", likely placed because that is the only limited-access facility outside the Interstate system that crosses a state line.       
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on August 06, 2017, 11:03:21 PM
Quote from: sparker on August 06, 2017, 01:24:27 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 30, 2017, 02:33:39 PM
I never understood the rationale for building a weigh station there. This is the only weigh station on a Kentucky parkway (the only other non-interstate semi-permanent weigh station I know of is on US 23 at the Floyd-Johnson county line, and I'd imagine it's not staffed all that often now due to the decline in coal truck traffic.) I'm pretty sure the construction of the Purchase Parkway in Kentucky predates the four-lane alignments of both US 51/45W and US 45E. I don't know the history of the weigh station or when it was built. I can foresee eliminating it and the KY 116/KY 166 interchange if necessary, since those routes can be accessed by either US 45 or the old US 51 alignment through Fulton.

I wasn't really paying attention to "entry" facilities the times I've driven through KY (always driving a passenger car or SUV); so I don't know how extensive the weigh-station aspect of those facilities is.  So the question I'm throwing out there is:  are there weigh station facilities at most -- or even every -- Interstate entrances to the state?  If that is the case, it would seem that the facility on the Purchase Parkway is "the exception that proves the rule", likely placed because that is the only limited-access facility outside the Interstate system that crosses a state line.     

There are weigh stations on I-64 eastbound between Shelbyville and Frankfort, I-75 and I-71 south of their respective splits, I-75 north beyond Corbin, and I-24 eastbound beyond the Cumberland River. (Not sure about I-24 west beyond the Tennessee line.)
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on August 06, 2017, 11:15:15 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on August 06, 2017, 11:03:21 PM
Quote from: sparker on August 06, 2017, 01:24:27 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 30, 2017, 02:33:39 PM
I never understood the rationale for building a weigh station there. This is the only weigh station on a Kentucky parkway (the only other non-interstate semi-permanent weigh station I know of is on US 23 at the Floyd-Johnson county line, and I'd imagine it's not staffed all that often now due to the decline in coal truck traffic.) I'm pretty sure the construction of the Purchase Parkway in Kentucky predates the four-lane alignments of both US 51/45W and US 45E. I don't know the history of the weigh station or when it was built. I can foresee eliminating it and the KY 116/KY 166 interchange if necessary, since those routes can be accessed by either US 45 or the old US 51 alignment through Fulton.

I wasn't really paying attention to "entry" facilities the times I've driven through KY (always driving a passenger car or SUV); so I don't know how extensive the weigh-station aspect of those facilities is.  So the question I'm throwing out there is:  are there weigh station facilities at most -- or even every -- Interstate entrances to the state?  If that is the case, it would seem that the facility on the Purchase Parkway is "the exception that proves the rule", likely placed because that is the only limited-access facility outside the Interstate system that crosses a state line.     

There are weigh stations on I-64 eastbound between Shelbyville and Frankfort, I-75 and I-71 south of their respective splits, I-75 north beyond Corbin, and I-24 eastbound beyond the Cumberland River. (Not sure about I-24 west beyond the Tennessee line.)

Since those mentioned are quite some distance from the state entrance point on any given Interstate route, it may indicate that once the Purchase is eventually signed as I-69 any weigh station could conceivably be located anywhere along its length; placing it near the state line itself wouldn't be deemed necessary.  That would certainly simplify the design aspects of the line-crossing segment near Fulton.  But whether or not to attempt to retain the current facility at or adjacent to its present location for the sake of economy would be something that would have to be determined before a design is finalized for this segment of I-69. 
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on September 14, 2017, 08:34:08 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on May 23, 2017, 04:03:18 PM
This TV video (http://www.localmemphis.com/news/local-news/new-state-of-the-art-tennessee-welcome-center-nearly-completed/718934110) reports that the opening for the I-55/69 Welcome Center is scheduled for June 23, should anyone be traveling that way this summer:
Quote
The welcome center officially opens June 23rd.

The grand opening was delayed because of bad weather (http://www.commercialappeal.com/story/money/business/development/2017/06/26/new-55-welcome-center-memphis-verge-opening/429249001/):

Quote
Design changes delayed it. So did high bids and budget issues as well as utility and drainage work and, most recently, foul weather.
But now, the new Welcome Center is finally on the verge of opening for northbound motorists entering Memphis on I-55/69.
In fact, a grand opening had been set for last Friday, but state officials postponed the ceremony because of the threat of severe weather, said Pete Rosenboro, assistant commissioner of the Tennessee Department of Tourism Development.
"We are currently discussing the new date,'' he said by email on Monday.

On July 13, the welcome center started hosting guests (http://www.mckenziebanner.com/site/general/2017/07/13/tennessee-opens-i-55-memphis-welcome-center/):

Quote
The new I-55 Memphis Welcome Center is officially hosting guests, the Tennessee Departments of Transportation and Tourist Development announced today.
"This facility replaces what was the state's oldest Welcome Center,"  TDOT Commissioner John Schroer said. "I'm pleased we can offer visitors a state-of-the-art facility, while also preserving a bit of the history from the past." ....
The I-55 Center is located at 3910 northbound Interstate 55, Tennessee Mile Marker 3.10. A ceremonial "grand opening"  will occur in coming months.

However, the grand opening ribbon-cutting was supposed to take place this morning (although the article covering it has disappeared from the OKMemphis website). At any rate, one can drive to it and visit it.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: ThatRandomOshawott on April 10, 2018, 09:15:33 PM
The interchange between US 51 and I-69 in Union City is currently under construction.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Brooks on April 11, 2018, 12:45:07 AM
Quote from: ThatRandomOshawott on April 10, 2018, 09:15:33 PM
The interchange between US 51 and I-69 in Union City is currently under construction.

it has been since 2016
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: triplemultiplex on April 11, 2018, 12:43:39 PM
That Union City bypass is being constructed comically far from the city to the north.  They should have tied back into US 51 where it curves east and improve the existing road to SR 22.  Probably could've saved enough money to buy another few miles of freeway conversion elsewhere in the corridor.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: froggie on April 11, 2018, 03:05:39 PM
I don't understand why they didn't try utilizing part of the existing Union City bypass.  It's already limited-access and though it'd be a tight fit in some spots, they reasonably could have upgraded it to fully controlled access.  At a minimum, they could have used the north leg (east-west running) of the bypass without much issue.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on April 11, 2018, 06:18:31 PM
How long before the entire Interstate 69 Union City Bypass is completed to the Purchase Parkway? I assume it will be quite a while?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: triplemultiplex on April 12, 2018, 08:58:40 AM
Here's what I was talking about upthread:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi113.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn208%2Ftriplemultiplex%2FBypasses%2FUnion%2520City%2520TN_zpsxl029gy4.png&hash=6bee20fb0a95ccae23601c3fefed0fc7da424fdc)

Threw that together in Google Earth since I was at work at the time.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: froggie on April 12, 2018, 09:09:13 AM
^ Generally along the lines of what I mentioned in my "At a minimum" sentence.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on April 12, 2018, 10:57:14 AM
I never understood that wide routing myself. As for a Purchase Parkway connection, the only thing that needs to be done is reconstruction of the US 51/US 45/US 45E/US 45W interchange in Tennessee, and probably a reworking of Exit 0 in Kentucky as well. After that, and with the work that's being done south of Union City, really the only thing that would be required is conversion of the toll booth cloverleaf at the Wingo exit and the route could be signed all the way to US 412/I-155.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: froggie on April 12, 2018, 10:52:52 PM
^ A quick web search found that the Wingo interchange made KYTC's 6-year plan and is currently scheduled for 2023.

IMO, any proper reworking of the 51/45/E/W interchange will impact Exit 0.  IMO, I'd shut it down (it's horribly sub-standard anyway), move the weigh station further north, and covert the northbound side of Exit 1 into a folded-diamond.  This would allow proper ramp spacing from the 51/45/E/W interchange to the weigh station, and from the weigh station to the NB off-ramp at Exit 1.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on April 13, 2018, 10:48:52 AM
Quote from: froggie on April 12, 2018, 10:52:52 PM
^ A quick web search found that the Wingo interchange made KYTC's 6-year plan and is currently scheduled for 2023.

IMO, any proper reworking of the 51/45/E/W interchange will impact Exit 0.  IMO, I'd shut it down (it's horribly sub-standard anyway), move the weigh station further north, and covert the northbound side of Exit 1 into a folded-diamond.  This would allow proper ramp spacing from the 51/45/E/W interchange to the weigh station, and from the weigh station to the NB off-ramp at Exit 1.

I'll reserve comment on the six-year plan until the legislative session is over after this weekend. The whole thing has been a mess. The governor vetoed the entire General Fund budget because the legislature added funding that the governor didn't include in his budget. The legislature also added a number of road projects that weren't in the submitted six-year plan, so who knows what will happen there?

As for Exit 0 there's really nothing there that can't be accessed from the US 51 exit (Kentucky exit 1) or the US 45/E/W interchange in Tennessee. I don't even really know why the weigh station is there. It's the only one on Kentucky's parkway system -- yes, I know it's the only parkway that touches a state border -- and I don't know how busy it is.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on April 23, 2018, 03:30:30 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on May 09, 2017, 11:13:13 AM
There's a lot of I-69 SIU 7 planned for FY 2020 in the FY 2018-20 Three Year Plan (http://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/Three_Year_Transportation_Plan_(FY_18-20).pdf) (pp. 9-10/21 of pdf):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_09_05_17_11_23_20.png)
....
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_09_05_17_11_10_52.png)
There's also revised ROW acquisition for I-69/I-240 (p.12/21 of pdf):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_09_05_17_11_39_06.png)
No Lauderdale County/SIU 8 projects, though.

The FY 2019-21 Three Year Plan (https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/documents/GovHighwayProgramFY19-21.pdf) contains the following Obion County projects, which includes the addition of environmental work on the state line section in 2019 and preliminary engineering on the state line section in 2021 (p.14/31 of pdf):

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_23_04_18_3_15_30.jpeg)

However, no additional work on either I-69/I-240 in Shelby County or I-69 in Lauderdale County.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on April 24, 2018, 02:48:17 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on April 23, 2018, 03:30:30 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on May 09, 2017, 11:13:13 AM
There's a lot of I-69 SIU 7 planned for FY 2020 in the FY 2018-20 Three Year Plan (http://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/Three_Year_Transportation_Plan_(FY_18-20).pdf) (pp. 9-10/21 of pdf):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_09_05_17_11_23_20.png)
....
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_09_05_17_11_10_52.png)
There's also revised ROW acquisition for I-69/I-240 (p.12/21 of pdf):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_09_05_17_11_39_06.png)
No Lauderdale County/SIU 8 projects, though.

The FY 2019-21 Three Year Plan (https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/documents/GovHighwayProgramFY19-21.pdf) contains the following Obion County projects, which includes the addition of environmental work on the state line section in 2019 and preliminary engineering on the state line section in 2021 (p.14/31 of pdf):

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_23_04_18_3_15_30.jpeg)

However, no additional work on either I-69/I-240 in Shelby County or I-69 in Lauderdale County.

Looking at that on the map, it looks like all five sections of SIU 7 are going to completed to just short of the Kentucky line in about 3 or 4 years.   
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: froggie on April 30, 2018, 03:27:16 PM
Related to the discussion upthread about I-69's alignment around Union City, I've created my own rendition (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=22731.msg2323184#msg2323184) that would have fully utilized the existing US 51 bypass.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on May 25, 2018, 08:51:56 PM
This March 2 opinion piece (https://www.courierpress.com/story/opinion/readers/2018/03/02/next-step-linking-evansville-memphis-69/388812002/) doesn't include any updates about I-69, but it does mention three tourist destinations along the route of SIU 8:

Quote
Tourism in Tennessee is likely to increase with the highway completion.  That's because several prominent people we know were raised in the area where the Segment 8, I-69 route is planned. About 220 miles southwest of Evansville, is the tiny community of Nutbush, Tennessee, home of iconic musician Tina Turner.  In fact, the singer wrote and recorded a hit record, in 1973, called "Nutbush City Limits."   An I-69/Tennessee 19 interchange is planned and should serve as the Nutbush-Ripley exit.
Coincidentally, Tennessee 19 is officially named the "Tina Turner Highway."  
A few miles nearby is Henning, the home of late author Alex Haley, who created the documentary "Roots."  An I-69/Tennessee 87 interchange could increase visitors to the nearby Alex Haley Museum.
Closer to Memphis along U.S. 51 south is Covington, birthplace of late songwriter Isaac Hayes.  An I-69/Tennessee 59 interchange for Covington has been counted in the cost.

This version of Nutbush City Limits contains some scenes of Tennessee 19 and Nutbush:



Here is a version from a younger Tina Turner:

Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: rte66man on June 08, 2018, 08:47:48 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on May 25, 2018, 08:51:56 PM
This March 2 opinion piece (https://www.courierpress.com/story/opinion/readers/2018/03/02/next-step-linking-evansville-memphis-69/388812002/) doesn't include any updates about I-69, but it does mention three tourist destinations along the route of SIU 8:

Quote
Tourism in Tennessee is likely to increase with the highway completion.  That’s because several prominent people we know were raised in the area where the Segment 8, I-69 route is planned. About 220 miles southwest of Evansville, is the tiny community of Nutbush, Tennessee, home of iconic musician Tina Turner.  In fact, the singer wrote and recorded a hit record, in 1973, called “Nutbush City Limits.”  An I-69/Tennessee 19 interchange is planned and should serve as the Nutbush-Ripley exit.
Coincidentally, Tennessee 19 is officially named the “Tina Turner Highway.”

This version of Nutbush City Limits contains some scenes of Tennessee 19 and Nutbush:




(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5710/31099069445_105d8a4d39.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Po7RSv)

Juxtaposed courtesy of Photoshop
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on June 08, 2018, 09:50:17 PM
Speaking of videos showing Tennessee routes, there was an old Son Volt video that showed a bunch of signs for US 41A and a Tennessee secondary route. I haven't been able to find that version of the video for years, though.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on June 09, 2018, 02:43:49 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on April 24, 2018, 02:48:17 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on April 23, 2018, 03:30:30 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on May 09, 2017, 11:13:13 AM
There's a lot of I-69 SIU 7 planned for FY 2020 in the FY 2018-20 Three Year Plan (http://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/Three_Year_Transportation_Plan_(FY_18-20).pdf) (pp. 9-10/21 of pdf):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_09_05_17_11_23_20.png)
....
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_09_05_17_11_10_52.png)
There's also revised ROW acquisition for I-69/I-240 (p.12/21 of pdf):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_09_05_17_11_39_06.png)
No Lauderdale County/SIU 8 projects, though.

The FY 2019-21 Three Year Plan (https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/documents/GovHighwayProgramFY19-21.pdf) contains the following Obion County projects, which includes the addition of environmental work on the state line section in 2019 and preliminary engineering on the state line section in 2021 (p.14/31 of pdf):

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_23_04_18_3_15_30.jpeg)

However, no additional work on either I-69/I-240 in Shelby County or I-69 in Lauderdale County.

Looking at that on the map, it looks like all five sections of SIU 7 are going to completed to just short of the Kentucky line in about 3 or 4 years.

Later this year the final section of I-269 in Mississippi will open, thus completing I-269 around Memphis. Yet it appears that TDOT has performed zero work on I-69 between TN-300 and where it will tie into I-269. Can anyone explain why TDOT is not doing anything with this section, as it would seem intuitive to me to finish the leg between TN-300 and I-269 due to its relatively short distance and how it completes the I-69/269 system through the Memphis area.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Brooks on June 09, 2018, 04:17:59 PM
Quote from: abqtraveler on June 09, 2018, 02:43:49 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on April 24, 2018, 02:48:17 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on April 23, 2018, 03:30:30 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on May 09, 2017, 11:13:13 AM
There's a lot of I-69 SIU 7 planned for FY 2020 in the FY 2018-20 Three Year Plan (http://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/Three_Year_Transportation_Plan_(FY_18-20).pdf) (pp. 9-10/21 of pdf):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_09_05_17_11_23_20.png)
....
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_09_05_17_11_10_52.png)
There's also revised ROW acquisition for I-69/I-240 (p.12/21 of pdf):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_09_05_17_11_39_06.png)
No Lauderdale County/SIU 8 projects, though.

The FY 2019-21 Three Year Plan (https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/documents/GovHighwayProgramFY19-21.pdf) contains the following Obion County projects, which includes the addition of environmental work on the state line section in 2019 and preliminary engineering on the state line section in 2021 (p.14/31 of pdf):

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_23_04_18_3_15_30.jpeg)

However, no additional work on either I-69/I-240 in Shelby County or I-69 in Lauderdale County.

Looking at that on the map, it looks like all five sections of SIU 7 are going to completed to just short of the Kentucky line in about 3 or 4 years.

Later this year the final section of I-269 in Mississippi will open, thus completing I-269 around Memphis. Yet it appears that TDOT has performed zero work on I-69 between TN-300 and where it will tie into I-269. Can anyone explain why TDOT is not doing anything with this section, as it would seem intuitive to me to finish the leg between TN-300 and I-269 due to its relatively short distance and how it completes the I-69/269 system through the Memphis area.

As always, Nashville pork.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on June 09, 2018, 07:24:17 PM
Quote from: abqtraveler on June 09, 2018, 02:43:49 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on April 24, 2018, 02:48:17 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on April 23, 2018, 03:30:30 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on May 09, 2017, 11:13:13 AM
There's a lot of I-69 SIU 7 planned for FY 2020 in the FY 2018-20 Three Year Plan (http://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/Three_Year_Transportation_Plan_(FY_18-20).pdf) (pp. 9-10/21 of pdf):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_09_05_17_11_23_20.png)
....
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_09_05_17_11_10_52.png)
There's also revised ROW acquisition for I-69/I-240 (p.12/21 of pdf):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_09_05_17_11_39_06.png)
No Lauderdale County/SIU 8 projects, though.

The FY 2019-21 Three Year Plan (https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/documents/GovHighwayProgramFY19-21.pdf) contains the following Obion County projects, which includes the addition of environmental work on the state line section in 2019 and preliminary engineering on the state line section in 2021 (p.14/31 of pdf):

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_23_04_18_3_15_30.jpeg)

However, no additional work on either I-69/I-240 in Shelby County or I-69 in Lauderdale County.

Looking at that on the map, it looks like all five sections of SIU 7 are going to completed to just short of the Kentucky line in about 3 or 4 years.

Later this year the final section of I-269 in Mississippi will open, thus completing I-269 around Memphis. Yet it appears that TDOT has performed zero work on I-69 between TN-300 and where it will tie into I-269. Can anyone explain why TDOT is not doing anything with this section, as it would seem intuitive to me to finish the leg between TN-300 and I-269 due to its relatively short distance and how it completes the I-69/269 system through the Memphis area.

Last time I looked TDOT has a corridor defined from US51/TN300 north past Millington and was in environmental reviews but has no funding to build.

History
SR 300 was originally part of an abortive effort in the 1960s to build an expressway connecting the northern portion of the then Interstate 240 to Mud Island. Ghost ramps and abandoned grading for this expressway still exist at the current western terminus of SR 300 at U.S. Highway 51 and also at Interstate 40 Exit 1 in downtown Memphis.

Future
SR 300 is slated to be signed as part of the proposed Interstate 69. In November 2004, the Tennessee Department of Transportation announced alternative A-1 (SIU 9) as the preferred alignment of future Interstate 69 through the Memphis area which will include SR 300.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Bobby5280 on June 09, 2018, 08:09:59 PM
Quote from: edwaleniLast time I looked TDOT has a corridor defined from US51/TN300 north past Millington and was in environmental reviews but has no funding to build.

Is there a map somewhere showing the corridor? I looked at the TDOT website and couldn't find anything on this proposed section of I-69. IIRC it has gone through the draft EIS process.

I'm a bit skeptical TDOT will be able to fill in the gap between the end of TN-300 at US-51 and the North end of I-269 at US-51. Obviously whatever gets built will have to go on a new terrain alignment. There's too many homes and other development along US-51/TN-3. The question I have is how they're going to push I-69 forward from the end of TN-300 to loop around all the existing development. The road would have to somehow thread a gap between General DeWitt Spain Airport and the Memphis Police Dept Impound Lot. Then there's a bunch of swamp land requiring extensive bridge work. That could be pretty costly.

It would suck if this happens, but I think there is a fair chance I-69 could actually get routed onto the path of I-269 way around metro Memphis. I-69 already has enough problems as it is with its far from direct alignment. Its path from Evansville, IN up to Bloomington is wacky looking for all the curves. I hate the distance wasting, big "L" shape it takes in Kentucky. The proposed path of I-69 in Arkansas doesn't look much better. So, if I-269 wound up being re-signed as I-69 due to lack of funding it would further erode the long distance travel value of this highway for the Interstate network.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Life in Paradise on June 09, 2018, 09:26:12 PM
Tennessee could save some money if they would simply angle off of US 51 near Brighton or Atoka and head straight down to 9 near Arlington or Bolton.  The only problem there would be that I-69 would have to either go around Memphis or they would have to take it in on I-40 to I-240 on the inner south loop.

If they wanted to drop the cost further, they could flare off at Dyersburg onto US-412 and then head from Cairo, TN down around Brownsville and into I-40.  The bad thing about that is that although I've never travelled it, I hear I-40 is terrible both roadway and traffic, and they would just be dumping another interstate on it.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on June 09, 2018, 11:52:14 PM
Quote from: Life in Paradise on June 09, 2018, 09:26:12 PM
Tennessee could save some money if they would simply angle off of US 51 near Brighton or Atoka and head straight down to 9 near Arlington or Bolton.  The only problem there would be that I-69 would have to either go around Memphis or they would have to take it in on I-40 to I-240 on the inner south loop.

If they wanted to drop the cost further, they could flare off at Dyersburg onto US-412 and then head from Cairo, TN down around Brownsville and into I-40.  The bad thing about that is that although I've never travelled it, I hear I-40 is terrible both roadway and traffic, and they would just be dumping another interstate on it.

Tennessee might as well try to get Missouri and Arkansas on board and route I-69 across the river at Dyersburg, then follow I-55 south if their motivation to punt on the Dyersburg-Memphis section is to keep the gravy train of road money going for Nashville and East Tennessee. In that instance I-69 would run over existig interstates between Dyersburg and Memphis, and would cost a whopping $0 to complete (aside from sign updates).
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: MikieTimT on June 10, 2018, 12:27:41 AM
Quote from: abqtraveler on June 09, 2018, 11:52:14 PM
Tennessee might as well try to get Missouri and Arkansas on board and route I-69 across the river at Dyersburg, then follow I-55 south if their motivation to punt on the Dyersburg-Memphis section is to keep the gravy train of road money going for Nashville and East Tennessee. In that instance I-69 would run over existig interstates between Dyersburg and Memphis, and would cost a whopping $0 to complete (aside from sign updates).

Good luck getting Arkansas to do much of anything that would reduce traffic through Little Rock as much of the finances of ARDOT tend to cluster around there.  Northwest Arkansas developed in SPITE of a decent road network and became a metropolitan area in its own right which opened up more federal funding, so that along with a self-imposed tax are the only reason for the recent development this corner, and the Bella Vista Bypass to complete I-49 to at least Alma if not south Ft. Smith would come long before any development of I-69 in this state other than a few bypasses that may get patched together eventually.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on June 10, 2018, 08:13:41 AM
From Wikipedia;

SIU 9
South of Millington, I-69 will intersect the Interstate 269 Memphis Outer Beltway, then continue southwest, roughly parallel to U.S. 51, and connect with Interstate 40 at the existing State Route 300 interchange in the Frayser neighborhood. Interstate 69 follows I-40 for about 3 miles (5 km) to the I-40/I-240 Midtown Interchange, where I-69 continues south along the Midtown portion of I-240 (mileposts 25-31) to the I-240/I-55 interchange in Whitehaven. From that interchange, I-69 continues south, merged with I-55 for approximately 12 miles (19 km), crossing the Mississippi state line. The Mississippi Department of Transportation has been working on widening I-55/I-69 between Hernando and the Tennessee State Line, adding travel lanes in each direction, reconstructing bridges, and improving traffic flow at interchanges. Meanwhile, TDOT is reconstructing I-55 and I-240 from the Mississippi line to Memphis. With much of the route already built and at Interstate standards through Memphis, the FHWA authorized TDOT to sign I-69 over I-55, I-240 and I-40 on January 18, 2008; however, TDOT has not yet done so. However, it has and still is signed as an "I-69 FUTURE CORRIDOR".

The Tennessee Department of Transportation has suspended work indefinitely on the unbuilt section between TN-300 and the proposed interchange with I-269 near Millington due to a lack of funding. TDOT has further stated that it does not intend to resume work on this section until Congress commits federal funding to complete environmental studies, right-of-way acquisition and construction.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on June 10, 2018, 08:20:42 AM
I just checked and TDOT took down its I-69 status page.

That usually means nothing is planned in the next 5 years.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on June 10, 2018, 10:44:42 AM
Millington Officials Study I-69 Impact
City leaders, residents weigh benefits of proposed routes
By Tracy Adams

The vitality of many businesses in Millington and Dyersburg could hinge on whether Interstate 69 is located east or west of the coming roadway.

The Tennessee Department of Transportation has held several meetings this month in the western part of the state, including Millington and Dyersburg, to discuss where to place a 65-mile stretch of I-69.

Local response. Reactions have, in many cases, split the business and residential communities, officials said.

"A lot of the residents feel, 'If it's coming through my childhood home, I might not want it there,' and I understand that," said Ordis Copeland, Millington Chamber of Commerce president. "I am looking at it for the overall benefit of the Millington community and businesses of Millington. We need I-69, and specifically we need Alternative-R."

It's not a question of if I-69 will go through Millington, but rather which part of the city will be home to next major interstate highway.

I-69 is a 1,600-mile federal highway project that will stretch from the Michigan-Canada border to Texas' border with Mexico. The section of the interstate between Tennessee Highway 385 in Millington and Interstate-155 in Dyersburg is one of 32 sections of the project that is meant to be in use before all parts are connected.

Two alternatives. TDOT has proposed two routing options for that section of I-69, dubbed Alternative-R and Alternative-G.

Alternative-R, preferred by the Millington and Dyersburg business communities, would take I-69 west of Millington with two exits - one at Highway 385 and another at west Union Avenue - that will allow traffic in and out of Millington.

Alternative-G would take I-69 about 15 miles to the east of Millington and connect to Highway 385 between Lakeland and Arlington. This alternative is preferred by many area residents, some of whom might be forced to relocate if Alternative-R is chosen, officials said.

However, Millington Chamber of Commerce officials are lobbying hard for Alternative-R, Copeland said.

"Of the nine goals Congress set out for I-69, none of them will be met if it goes east of Millington," he said. "Alternative-R will improve traffic flow in and out of the city and enhance economic growth.

"No trucker is going to drive 15 miles out of his way just to take I-69. They are going to take the most direct route - Highway 51 - and that will do nothing for traffic congestion and it will harm our businesses."

Impact on business. Copeland expects to see a boom in the number of retail and commercial businesses in Millington as a result of I-69 and Alternative-R.

"The western route means it will be easier for people to get in and out of the city," he said. "That will definitely make Millington more attractive to retailers and other businesses. More importantly, it will serve as a reason to stay and not relocate 15 miles away to closer to that traffic flow."

A retail boom also is anticipated in Dyersburg should Alternative-R be approved, officials said.

"The western route (proposed for I-69) means it will be easier for people to get in and out of the city. That will definitely make Millington more attractive to retailers and other businesses."
- Ordis Copeland
president, Millington Chamber of Commerce
"We are expecting to be able to pull a few big-box retailers, more restaurants and more commercial," said Allan Hester, Dyersburg Chamber of Commerce president. "There are clear advantages to the western route. It will bring traffic much closer to the existing businesses and the economic center of the city."

Industrial growth. I-69 also is expected to have a big impact on the region's industry, starting with a renewed commitment to the area by one of its mayor employers, said Bill Revell, Dyersburg mayor and chairman of the I-69 committee in Tennessee.

"A few years back, Caterpillar Inc. was considering relocating their facility here offshore, but once they heard about I-69, they decided to stay," Revell said. "The impact of I-69 coming through Dyersburg was high on their list of reasons to not relocate."

Encouraging firms like Caterpillar to stay is a big reason why Dyersburg Chamber officials have sided with Millington in pushing for Alternative-R, citing its benefits to area businesses and the city's industrial base.

"We expect the western route to enhance our manufacturing base," Hester said. "A large percentage of our jobs - about 30 percent - come from manufacturing. And having that kind of access to a major thoroughfare will be a draw for some and reason to stay or expand for others."

About 25 miles north of Dyersburg, a new river port project is under way. The project is expected to benefit both Dyersburg and Lake County, where it's located, in attracting additional industry, Hester said.

Timeline. TDOT will hand down its decision on the I-69 route in the spring, department officials said. However, settling on a route won't signal an immediate start of construction.

Construction costs on the Millington-Dyersburg leg are likely to run up to $500 million, according to an early environmental impact statement. To date, no funds have been earmarked by the Federal Highway Administration or approved by Congress to finance construction of the highway segment.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on June 11, 2018, 10:00:38 PM
Quote from: abqtraveler on June 09, 2018, 02:43:49 PM
Later this year the final section of I-269 in Mississippi will open, thus completing I-269 around Memphis. Yet it appears that TDOT has performed zero work on I-69 between TN-300 and where it will tie into I-269. Can anyone explain why TDOT is not doing anything with this section, as it would seem intuitive to me to finish the leg between TN-300 and I-269 due to its relatively short distance and how it completes the I-69/269 system through the Memphis area.

Gov. Bill Haslam and TDOT Director John Schroer began the campaign for the IMPROVE Act with a list of all the backlogged projects in Tennessee, which included all of I-69, including SIU 8:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3841.msg2104792#msg2104792

When it came time to assess how big of a tax increase Tennesseeans would accept, Haslam and Schroer dropped the tax increase and thereby cut some of the backlogged projects out.  I-69 SIU 7 survived and part of SIU 8 survived:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3841.msg2205146#msg2205146

SIU 9 in Memphis did not survive. My guess is that Memphis prioritized the Lamar Avenue improvements more, and since IMPROVE had to be sold state-wide, Memphis could not justify two major projects and SIU 9 did not make the cut.




Quote from: Bobby5280 on June 09, 2018, 08:09:59 PM
Is there a map somewhere showing the corridor? I looked at the TDOT website and couldn't find anything on this proposed section of I-69. IIRC it has gone through the draft EIS process.

I found this snip from a Memphis MPO comment card:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F16ALcq1.jpg&hash=2c686b64924b3dd8ceaf1ebcba9d3bc4559fc2ce)

If you were looking for maps of SIU 8:

https://www.tn.gov/tdot/projects/region-4/interstate-69-segment-8/interstate-69-segment-8-library.html
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Henry on June 12, 2018, 09:43:34 AM
It looks like at least another half-century before any work is done on I-69. The sooner all those sections can be tied together, the better.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: skluth on September 21, 2018, 06:26:40 PM
I saw today that Google Maps has I-69 running through Memphis from the US-51 interchange on the north side then along the old west side of I-240 through downtown and Southaven to where it heads west to Tunica from I-55. I don't know if that is new but I hadn't noticed it before. I know Google is not the arbiter of highways and they get plenty wrong. Just curious if this is now the official route or just something Google made up.

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.19648,-90.0294682,15z?hl=en

Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on September 21, 2018, 07:14:11 PM
Quote from: skluth on September 21, 2018, 06:26:40 PM
I saw today that Google Maps has I-69 running through Memphis from the US-51 interchange on the north side then along the old west side of I-240 through downtown and Southaven to where it heads west to Tunica from I-55. I don't know if that is new but I hadn't noticed it before. I know Google is not the arbiter of highways and they get plenty wrong. Just curious if this is now the official route or just something Google made up.

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.19648,-90.0294682,15z?hl=en



That is the designated route for I-69; I-55 is co-signed with I-69 in MS -- but AFAIK, not as of yet in TN; neither is I-240 or 40.  It probably won't get signage until at least actual letting is done in regards to SIU's 8 & 9.  If SIU 8 precedes SIU 9 time-wise, then the section of US 51 between TN 300 and TN 385/I-269 could conceivably be "trailblazed" as "TO I-69".  But I wouldn't hold my breath; the Google signage is simply premature.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: MikeTheActuary on September 21, 2018, 08:25:30 PM
Quote from: sparker on September 21, 2018, 07:14:11 PM
Quote from: skluth on September 21, 2018, 06:26:40 PM
I saw today that Google Maps has I-69 running through Memphis from the US-51 interchange on the north side then along the old west side of I-240 through downtown and Southaven to where it heads west to Tunica from I-55. I don't know if that is new but I hadn't noticed it before. I know Google is not the arbiter of highways and they get plenty wrong. Just curious if this is now the official route or just something Google made up.

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.19648,-90.0294682,15z?hl=en



That is the designated route for I-69; I-55 is co-signed with I-69 in MS -- but AFAIK, not as of yet in TN; neither is I-240 or 40.  It probably won't get signage until at least actual letting is done in regards to SIU's 8 & 9.  If SIU 8 precedes SIU 9 time-wise, then the section of US 51 between TN 300 and TN 385/I-269 could conceivably be "trailblazed" as "TO I-69".  But I wouldn't hold my breath; the Google signage is simply premature.

I was in a Wikipedia edit war on the I-269 pages last December, and I'm the person who "demoted" I-69 in Tennessee there.

Basically, there seems to be no evidence that TDOT considers I-69 to exist in TN at this point.  While they have approval to post it in Memphis, it looks like they aren't going to make it official any time soon.

Similarly, despite what Google Maps say, I-269 is only approved south of I-40...and it's debatable whether TDOT believes I-269 exists north of Collierville.  Yes, it's been posted, and in the past few months, some TDOT documents (maps, bridge inventories) have changed SR 385 references to I-269, but the TDOT engineer I traded emails with said that they wouldn't actually consider the change from SR 385 to I-269 to be official until they publicly announced it.   At the time I contacted him, the announcement would have come after the re-signing contract was completed and accepted.   I don't know whether formal acceptance has come yet, or if at this point, they're stalling the announcement until the final MS stretch opens in a few weeks.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: seicer on October 02, 2018, 08:19:53 PM
Looking further at the property lines, TNDOT has acquired some land east and south of Union City:

Future terminus with US 51/US 45W: https://goo.gl/maps/7MN9zYffFAw
Future exit with TN 21: https://goo.gl/maps/6CE3ivKWFp12

I'm curious if TNDOT will follow US 51 further south of TN 21.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: mvak36 on October 02, 2018, 10:02:02 PM
Quote from: seicer on October 02, 2018, 08:19:53 PM
Looking further at the property lines, TNDOT has acquired some land east and south of Union City:

Future terminus with US 51/US 45W: https://goo.gl/maps/7MN9zYffFAw
Future exit with TN 21: https://goo.gl/maps/6CE3ivKWFp12

I'm curious if TNDOT will follow US 51 further south of TN 21.

If you go to this site, you can see what routing they're gonna do from south of Troy all the way to the KY border. https://www.tdot.tn.gov/projectneeds/spot#/

It's easier if you turn off all the programs and only turn on the Trade button on the left side. Once that's done, if you move your cursor over those Trade icons on the map, it will show you the routing of each section of I-69.

I put together a bunch of screenshots taken from the site to show the approximate routing. I don't know if what's shown on that page is the final routing, but at least it's kind of close. If you wanted to zoom in closer for each section you can go to that link I gave above.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/12408_02_10_18_9_59_28.jpeg)
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: seicer on October 02, 2018, 11:20:09 PM
Thank you!

It looks like its bypasses of bypasses in many instances - even further south. So much of the ROW has been developed upon that it's probably easier to go with a new terrain.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: froggie on October 03, 2018, 07:34:40 AM
^ For Troy, yes it's developed.  But I demonstrated earlier this year in the Fictional part of the forum how they could have utilized the existing US 51 Union City bypass.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on December 29, 2018, 11:52:32 AM
Quote from: Grzrd on April 23, 2018, 03:30:30 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on May 09, 2017, 11:13:13 AM
There's a lot of I-69 SIU 7 planned for FY 2020 in the FY 2018-20 Three Year Plan (http://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tdot/attachments/Three_Year_Transportation_Plan_(FY_18-20).pdf) (pp. 9-10/21 of pdf):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_09_05_17_11_23_20.png)
....
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_09_05_17_11_10_52.png)
There's also revised ROW acquisition for I-69/I-240 (p.12/21 of pdf):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_09_05_17_11_39_06.png)
No Lauderdale County/SIU 8 projects, though.

The FY 2019-21 Three Year Plan (https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/documents/GovHighwayProgramFY19-21.pdf) contains the following Obion County projects, which includes the addition of environmental work on the state line section in 2019 and preliminary engineering on the state line section in 2021 (p.14/31 of pdf):

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_23_04_18_3_15_30.jpeg)

However, no additional work on either I-69/I-240 in Shelby County or I-69 in Lauderdale County.

Looking at the above chart, work is scheduled to start on Future I-69 from West of TN 21 to US 51 on the North side of Union City sometime in the upcoming year. 

Does any one know when would TDOT put the project up for bids and when would construction start?

Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on December 29, 2018, 07:17:36 PM
^^^^^^^^
Looks like the small section at or near the KY state line is not nearly at the stage of development as the rest of SIU 7 -- I wonder if there's a KY-based coordinated project as well?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on December 29, 2018, 08:01:52 PM
Quote from: sparker on December 29, 2018, 07:17:36 PM
^^^^^^^^
Looks like the small section at or near the KY state line is not nearly at the stage of development as the rest of SIU 7 -- I wonder if there's a KY-based coordinated project as well?

Kentucky and Tennessee are working together on the work at the state line.  It will run from the Wingo bowtie south to past the U.S. 51 and US 45 interchange.

But I have no information beyond that.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on December 30, 2018, 09:18:04 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on December 29, 2018, 08:01:52 PM
Quote from: sparker on December 29, 2018, 07:17:36 PM

^^^^^^^^
Looks like the small section at or near the KY state line is not nearly at the stage of development as the rest of SIU 7 -- I wonder if there's a KY-based coordinated project as well?

Kentucky and Tennessee are working together on the work at the state line.  It will run from the Wingo bowtie south to past the U.S. 51 and US 45 interchange.

But I have no information beyond that.

Last I read that TDOT was working with KYTC on preparing an EIS to reconfigure the US-51/Purchase Parkway interchange at the KY/TN state line. Looking at STIP documents from both states, it looks like construction on the interchange won't begin until the mid-2020s.  Kentucky plans to start reconstructing the Wingo interchnage in 2021, and upgrade the Purchase Parkway from the Wingo bowtie to just north of the state line in 2022.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: mvak36 on January 01, 2019, 09:09:27 AM
Quote from: abqtraveler on December 30, 2018, 09:18:04 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on December 29, 2018, 08:01:52 PM
Quote from: sparker on December 29, 2018, 07:17:36 PM

^^^^^^^^
Looks like the small section at or near the KY state line is not nearly at the stage of development as the rest of SIU 7 -- I wonder if there's a KY-based coordinated project as well?

Kentucky and Tennessee are working together on the work at the state line.  It will run from the Wingo bowtie south to past the U.S. 51 and US 45 interchange.

But I have no information beyond that.

Last I read that TDOT was working with KYTC on preparing an EIS to reconfigure the US-51/Purchase Parkway interchange at the KY/TN state line. Looking at STIP documents from both states, it looks like construction on the interchange won't begin until the mid-2020s.  Kentucky plans to start reconstructing the Wingo interchnage in 2021, and upgrade the Purchase Parkway from the Wingo bowtie to just north of the state line in 2022.
I wonder if both states will try to apply for an INFRA or BUILD grant for the part near the state line. Obviously they would need to speed up their process from where they are at now, but I would guess if they apply they have a good chance of getting it with Chao as the USDOT secretary.


iPhone
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on January 01, 2019, 11:56:00 AM
Quote from: mvak36 on January 01, 2019, 09:09:27 AM
Quote from: abqtraveler on December 30, 2018, 09:18:04 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on December 29, 2018, 08:01:52 PM
Quote from: sparker on December 29, 2018, 07:17:36 PM

^^^^^^^^
Looks like the small section at or near the KY state line is not nearly at the stage of development as the rest of SIU 7 -- I wonder if there's a KY-based coordinated project as well?

Kentucky and Tennessee are working together on the work at the state line.  It will run from the Wingo bowtie south to past the U.S. 51 and US 45 interchange.

But I have no information beyond that.

Last I read that TDOT was working with KYTC on preparing an EIS to reconfigure the US-51/Purchase Parkway interchange at the KY/TN state line. Looking at STIP documents from both states, it looks like construction on the interchange won't begin until the mid-2020s.  Kentucky plans to start reconstructing the Wingo interchnage in 2021, and upgrade the Purchase Parkway from the Wingo bowtie to just north of the state line in 2022.
I wonder if both states will try to apply for an INFRA or BUILD grant for the part near the state line. Obviously they would need to speed up their process from where they are at now, but I would guess if they apply they have a good chance of getting it with Chao as the USDOT secretary.


iPhone

Tennessee is funding the construction of I-69 from the from a tax increase they passed specifically for transportation projects.  Kentucky appears to have the finishing of I-69 as part of their normal highway budget.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: mvak36 on January 01, 2019, 01:00:14 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on January 01, 2019, 11:56:00 AM
Quote from: mvak36 on January 01, 2019, 09:09:27 AM
Quote from: abqtraveler on December 30, 2018, 09:18:04 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on December 29, 2018, 08:01:52 PM
Quote from: sparker on December 29, 2018, 07:17:36 PM

^^^^^^^^
Looks like the small section at or near the KY state line is not nearly at the stage of development as the rest of SIU 7 -- I wonder if there's a KY-based coordinated project as well?

Kentucky and Tennessee are working together on the work at the state line.  It will run from the Wingo bowtie south to past the U.S. 51 and US 45 interchange.

But I have no information beyond that.

Last I read that TDOT was working with KYTC on preparing an EIS to reconfigure the US-51/Purchase Parkway interchange at the KY/TN state line. Looking at STIP documents from both states, it looks like construction on the interchange won't begin until the mid-2020s.  Kentucky plans to start reconstructing the Wingo interchnage in 2021, and upgrade the Purchase Parkway from the Wingo bowtie to just north of the state line in 2022.
I wonder if both states will try to apply for an INFRA or BUILD grant for the part near the state line. Obviously they would need to speed up their process from where they are at now, but I would guess if they apply they have a good chance of getting it with Chao as the USDOT secretary.


iPhone

Tennessee is funding the construction of I-69 from the from a tax increase they passed specifically for transportation projects.  Kentucky appears to have the finishing of I-69 as part of their normal highway budget.
Yes, I am aware of that. I was looking at some of the projects that won those grants this year. They were also funded through their respective states' budget but the states still applied for and got those grants. Not sure if KY or TN would apply for it but it wouldn't hurt to try


iPhone
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on January 20, 2019, 10:02:54 PM
Earlier this month I saw on TDOT's website plans for the next section of I-69 around Union City that would have covered the section from SR-21 to the US-51 freeway north of Union City, supposedly in advance of the February 8th letting.

When the bid letting list for February 8th came out, this section of I-69 was not included on the letting list.

So did the letting for this section of I-69 get postponed?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on January 22, 2019, 01:16:44 PM
Quote from: abqtraveler on January 20, 2019, 10:02:54 PM
Earlier this month I saw on TDOT's website plans for the next section of I-69 around Union City that would have covered the section from SR-21 to the US-51 freeway north of Union City, supposedly in advance of the February 8th letting.

When the bid letting list for February 8th came out, this section of I-69 was not included on the letting list.

So did the letting for this section of I-69 get postponed?

Do you have links to the plans and the letting list?  I was poking around the TNDOT website but did not find them earlier this month. 
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: froggie on January 22, 2019, 01:55:22 PM
^ TDOT has put their plans online electronically (https://www.tn.gov/tdot/tdot-construction-division/bid-lettings/e-plans-room.html).  They are free to download...you just need to know the county and the project number.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: codyg1985 on January 22, 2019, 01:59:39 PM
Quote from: froggie on January 22, 2019, 01:55:22 PM
^ TDOT has put their plans online electronically (https://www.tn.gov/tdot/tdot-construction-division/bid-lettings/e-plans-room.html).  They are free to download...you just need to know the county and the project number.


Since the project did not appear on the official list of projects for the February letting, the I-69 plans aren't on there.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: froggie on January 22, 2019, 02:08:49 PM
^ It's under the "Upcoming Lettings" link.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: codyg1985 on January 22, 2019, 02:41:16 PM
Quote from: froggie on January 22, 2019, 02:08:49 PM
^ It's under the "Upcoming Lettings" link.

Thanks. It looks like the interchange with US 51 will be a directional T interchange. and I-69 will have control cities of Fulton and Dyersburg.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on January 22, 2019, 02:58:17 PM
Quote from: codyg1985 on January 22, 2019, 02:41:16 PM
Quote from: froggie on January 22, 2019, 02:08:49 PM
^ It's under the "Upcoming Lettings" link.

Thanks. It looks like the interchange with US 51 will be a directional T interchange. and I-69 will have control cities of Fulton and Dyersburg.

Fulton is also the control city for I-69 as far north as Henderson. Might we have a new candidate for "smallest control city on the Interstate system?"
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: wdcrft63 on January 22, 2019, 06:55:12 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 22, 2019, 02:58:17 PM
Quote from: codyg1985 on January 22, 2019, 02:41:16 PM
Quote from: froggie on January 22, 2019, 02:08:49 PM
^ It's under the "Upcoming Lettings" link.

Thanks. It looks like the interchange with US 51 will be a directional T interchange. and I-69 will have control cities of Fulton and Dyersburg.

Fulton is also the control city for I-69 as far north as Henderson. Might we have a new candidate for "smallest control city on the Interstate system?"
Is Fulton smaller than Benson NC?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: tdindy88 on January 22, 2019, 07:58:58 PM
If we're going to go all the way with these small control cities, why not South Fulton for I-69 north in Tennessee?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: codyg1985 on January 22, 2019, 09:38:58 PM
Quote from: tdindy88 on January 22, 2019, 07:58:58 PM
If we're going to go all the way with these small control cities, why not South Fulton for I-69 north in Tennessee?

Actually one of the signs in the plans shows South Fulton as a control city. Most of them say Fulton, though.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on January 23, 2019, 09:04:44 AM
Quote from: froggie on January 22, 2019, 01:55:22 PM
^ TDOT has put their plans online electronically (https://www.tn.gov/tdot/tdot-construction-division/bid-lettings/e-plans-room.html).  They are free to download...you just need to know the county and the project number.

Thank you for the link.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on January 23, 2019, 03:53:18 PM
Once the Union City and Troy Bypasses are completed, will Interstate 69 be signposted from Interstate 155's exit 15, to the state line, and then along the Purchase Parkway? Or might it take longer for such signage to be installed? Possibly until the Memphis-to-Dyersburg segment is built, whenever on Earth that will be?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on January 23, 2019, 06:04:42 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 23, 2019, 03:53:18 PM
Once the Union City and Troy Bypasses are completed, will Interstate 69 be signposted from Interstate 155's exit 15, to the state line, and then along the Purchase Parkway? Or might it take longer for such signage to be installed? Possibly until the Memphis-to-Dyersburg segment is built, whenever on Earth that will be?

The signage will likely depend upon the completion date of KY's portion from Mayfield southwest to Fulton, which will require upgrades (including elimination of one of their infamous "bowtie" interchanges left over from toll road times) and the state line connector to the TN project.  Once all that is done, it is more than likely that there will be continuous I-69 signage from I-155 at Dyersburg up to Henderson, KY (what would be the point otherwise?). 
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on January 23, 2019, 06:51:27 PM
I-69 is already signed along the Purchase Parkway to Benton, where the toll booth cloverleaf was rebuilt. It may be signed now as far south as the US 45 bypass in Mayfield, as that work was still ongoing the last time I was in the area (for the meet I hosted in November 2017.)
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on January 23, 2019, 06:57:07 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 23, 2019, 06:51:27 PM
I-69 is already signed along the Purchase Parkway to Benton, where the toll booth cloverleaf was rebuilt. It may be signed now as far south as the US 45 bypass in Mayfield, as that work was still ongoing the last time I was in the area (for the meet I hosted in November 2017.)

There is a video on the I-69 Kentucky thread that shows that I-69 is now signed down to Cardinal Road just South of Mayfield

Update, found the link in this post:

Quote from: Ryctor2018 on August 20, 2018, 10:47:48 PM
My first post! Hopefully this is embedded properly. This is KYTC District 1's video of I-69 from I-24 south to US 45 near Mayfield. It includes the rebuilt interchanges of I-69/I-24 and I-69/US 45.

https://www.facebook.com/plugins/video.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FKYTCDistrict1%2Fvideos%2F1730746516961089%2F&show_text=0&width=560

Another Update, Google Maps has the Streetview of the Southern End of I-69 in Kentucky

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.7212172,-88.6857693,3a,68.3y,62.25h,88.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sA00SUWaiNB7SUS4KqzQAmg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on January 24, 2019, 08:56:59 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 23, 2019, 03:53:18 PM
Once the Union City and Troy Bypasses are completed, will Interstate 69 be signposted from Interstate 155's exit 15, to the state line, and then along the Purchase Parkway? Or might it take longer for such signage to be installed? Possibly until the Memphis-to-Dyersburg segment is built, whenever on Earth that will be?

The plans referenced above show only I-69 Signage for the bypass.  So I expect that when the Union City and Troy bypasses are complete you will see I-69 signed from I-155 through Union City and to the north end of interstate grade roadway.

There is no other designation for I-69 since US 51 is remaining on it's current route.

Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Hot Rod Hootenanny on January 27, 2019, 11:23:37 PM
Fresh off the Digital Memory card...
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7810/39936635023_e76ce44e36_z.jpg)
(US 51 NB approaching Union City)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7898/39936634733_caf5132a7f_z.jpg)
(Cloverleaf loop from US 51 SB to (Future)I-69, near Union City)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7826/39936634853_8f39972404_z.jpg)
(Bridge for (future) I-69, near Union City)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7920/39936635743_d13169f2f9_z.jpg)
Not Tennessee, but I-69 now starts a mile south of exit 21 in Kentucky
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on February 05, 2019, 08:00:16 AM
Nice pictures, thanks!
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on February 05, 2019, 08:15:05 AM
This is US 51 just south of the interchange with TN 214 (Circa 2012).

Would this portion of roadway be considered up to interstate standards?

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.4951201,-88.9099295,3a,60y,243.5h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sM_13Agzvqwc-sg1fi74LEg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

The portion north of TN 214 has at grade intersections and is not, but I was trying to figure out how far North I-69 could be signed once the Union City bypass is completed.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on February 07, 2019, 10:01:55 AM
I just found this somewhat dated (Fall 2017) aerial footage of the construction of I-69 from south of TN 22 to south of US 51.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-C__f2Khoas

Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on March 02, 2019, 04:21:51 PM
Some more good news:  according to TDOT's Bid Letting site, the construction contract for Section 5 of SIU-7 of I-69 is scheduled to be let on March 29, 2019.  According to the Notice to Contractors, construction on this section, which includes the northernmost portion of the Union City Bypass between TN-21 and US-51 (north of U.C.) is scheduled for completion on or before September 30, 2022.  Here's the link to the Notice to Contractors for the March 29th bid letting.

https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/construction/2019_bid_lettings/march_29_2019_letting/March_29_2019_Notice_to_Contractors.pdf
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on March 03, 2019, 03:05:41 PM
Quote from: abqtraveler on March 02, 2019, 04:21:51 PM
Some more good news:  according to TDOT's Bid Letting site, the construction contract for Section 5 of SIU-7 of I-69 is scheduled to be let on March 29, 2019.  According to the Notice to Contractors, construction on this section, which includes the northernmost portion of the Union City Bypass between TN-21 and US-51 (north of U.C.) is scheduled for completion on or before September 30, 2022.  Here's the link to the Notice to Contractors for the March 29th bid letting.

https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/construction/2019_bid_lettings/march_29_2019_letting/March_29_2019_Notice_to_Contractors.pdf


Once that construction starts they can finally stop calling it a freeway to nowhere (as in the video above).

From the schedule further up this thread it looks like they plan to pave sections 3 and 4 by 2022 and get the whole  Union City bypass open by then.  The only question is how long it will take to get sections 1 and 2 done and I-69 open from I-155 to Fulton.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on March 30, 2019, 05:35:54 PM
Quote from: abqtraveler on March 02, 2019, 04:21:51 PM
Some more good news:  according to TDOT's Bid Letting site, the construction contract for Section 5 of SIU-7 of I-69 is scheduled to be let on March 29, 2019.  According to the Notice to Contractors, construction on this section, which includes the northernmost portion of the Union City Bypass between TN-21 and US-51 (north of U.C.) is scheduled for completion on or before September 30, 2022.  Here's the link to the Notice to Contractors for the March 29th bid letting.

https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/construction/2019_bid_lettings/march_29_2019_letting/March_29_2019_Notice_to_Contractors.pdf

Four bids on the project:

https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/construction/2019_bid_lettings/march_29_2019_letting/March%2029%20Apparent%20Low.pdf

Alphabetical by county.  I-69 is on page 12

Unlike Section 4 (completed in 2012) and Section 3 (under construction). This project includes paving. 

Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: mvak36 on April 21, 2019, 09:06:00 AM
TDOT released their Transportation Improvement Plan (https://www.tn.gov/tdot/news/2019/4/18/governor-and-commissioner-release-transportation-improvement-plan-for-2020-2022.html) for 2020-2022. Here are the projects listed (https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/documents/TransportationImprovementProgram2019.pdf) on there for I-69:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/12408_21_04_19_8_57_38.jpeg)
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on April 22, 2019, 10:10:53 AM
Quote from: mvak36 on April 21, 2019, 09:06:00 AM
TDOT released their Transportation Improvement Plan (https://www.tn.gov/tdot/news/2019/4/18/governor-and-commissioner-release-transportation-improvement-plan-for-2020-2022.html) for 2020-2022. Here are the projects listed (https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/documents/TransportationImprovementProgram2019.pdf) on there for I-69:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/12408_21_04_19_8_57_38.jpeg)

The paving for the existing segments of I-69 I expected, but nice to see it will be started next year.  The Rogers Rd in Kentucky to SR3 segment is confusing.  I can find a Rogers Road in Tennessee that intersects US 45/51 (aka TN 3)  but not one in Kentucky...   Also not sure what "PE" stands for.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Gordon on April 22, 2019, 10:26:13 AM
PE stands for Preliminary Engineering.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on April 22, 2019, 10:20:56 PM
Quote from: Gordon on April 22, 2019, 10:26:13 AM
PE stands for Preliminary Engineering.

Thanks
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: rte66man on April 24, 2019, 08:56:32 PM
Quote from: mvak36 on April 21, 2019, 09:06:00 AM
TDOT released their Transportation Improvement Plan (https://www.tn.gov/tdot/news/2019/4/18/governor-and-commissioner-release-transportation-improvement-plan-for-2020-2022.html) for 2020-2022. Here are the projects listed (https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/documents/TransportationImprovementProgram2019.pdf) on there for I-69:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/12408_21_04_19_8_57_38.jpeg)

I understand you have to pave sometime but it seems to me they would have been better off grading a connection to 51 north of Union City before paving anything.  All they will have is a road serving local interests. 
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on April 25, 2019, 08:03:22 AM
Quote from: rte66man on April 24, 2019, 08:56:32 PM
Quote from: mvak36 on April 21, 2019, 09:06:00 AM
TDOT released their Transportation Improvement Plan (https://www.tn.gov/tdot/news/2019/4/18/governor-and-commissioner-release-transportation-improvement-plan-for-2020-2022.html) for 2020-2022. Here are the projects listed (https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/documents/TransportationImprovementProgram2019.pdf) on there for I-69:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/12408_21_04_19_8_57_38.jpeg)

I understand you have to pave sometime but it seems to me they would have been better off grading a connection to 51 north of Union City before paving anything.  All they will have is a road serving local interests.

Section 5 of SIU 7  (TN 21 to US 51) was awarded on March 29th.  That project includes paving, so by 2023 or 2023, the entire Union City bypass portion will be complete. 
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: rte66man on April 26, 2019, 08:05:38 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on April 25, 2019, 08:03:22 AM
Quote from: rte66man on April 24, 2019, 08:56:32 PM
Quote from: mvak36 on April 21, 2019, 09:06:00 AM
TDOT released their Transportation Improvement Plan (https://www.tn.gov/tdot/news/2019/4/18/governor-and-commissioner-release-transportation-improvement-plan-for-2020-2022.html) for 2020-2022. Here are the projects listed (https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/documents/TransportationImprovementProgram2019.pdf) on there for I-69:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/12408_21_04_19_8_57_38.jpeg)

I understand you have to pave sometime but it seems to me they would have been better off grading a connection to 51 north of Union City before paving anything.  All they will have is a road serving local interests.

Section 5 of SIU 7  (TN 21 to US 51) was awarded on March 29th.  That project includes paving, so by 2023 or 2023, the entire Union City bypass portion will be complete. 

Glad to hear that but that means there is a 2-3 year gap between pavings. 
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: triplemultiplex on May 11, 2019, 09:16:41 PM
So 13 years to build like 6 miles of rural freeway?  Or is it 14 years?  (Earth movement is first visible on Google Earth c. 2010.)  Round of applause for TnDOT. /sarcasm

This shit's taking so long, they're going to have to replace the pavement that's already in place before it even opens.  :rolleyes:
That means like, what, 2030 to get the rest of the bypass around Troy complete?  Because 2023 only gets it to a temporary end at US 51 south of UC.   :crazy:
What a joke.

I was driving around Union City this past week for work and observed first hand the glacial progress being made.  I could see some of the survey markers north of town on US 51 where I-69 will curve away from the existing freeway north of town.  Ground yet to be turned up there.  Meanwhile the interchange at TN 5 is done, but it's been idle so long, there's grass growing up between the concrete ramps and their asphalt shoulders.

This is all because TN isn't "allowed" to borrow money to build things, am I remembering that correctly?  They have to pay as they go which means it takes forever and inevitably costs way more.  That is not responsible government.  It's the opposite.  More cost, less benefit.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: rte66man on May 12, 2019, 12:51:43 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 11, 2019, 09:16:41 PM
So 13 years to build like 6 miles of rural freeway?  Or is it 14 years?  (Earth movement is first visible on Google Earth c. 2010.)  Round of applause for TnDOT. /sarcasm

This shit's taking so long, they're going to have to replace the pavement that's already in place before it even opens.  :rolleyes:
That means like, what, 2030 to get the rest of the bypass around Troy complete?  Because 2023 only gets it to a temporary end at US 51 south of UC.   :crazy:
What a joke.

I was driving around Union City this past week for work and observed first hand the glacial progress being made.  I could see some of the survey markers north of town on US 51 where I-69 will curve away from the existing freeway north of town.  Ground yet to be turned up there.  Meanwhile the interchange at TN 21 is mostly done save for some more pavement on 21, but it's been idle so long, there's grass growing up between the concrete ramps and their asphalt shoulders.

My point exactly. Take the pavement $$$ and use to to expedite the grading and drainage. Then pave the whole thing at one time. 
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on May 13, 2019, 04:52:28 PM
What is traffic like on existing US 51 between Memphis and Interstate 155? Was the Tennessee DOT right to suspend work on that portion of future 69 (such as that segment will not need to be constructed in the foreseeable future)? Or does the existing US 51 corridor warrant an Interstate upgrade, meaning 69 should be constructed sooner, rather that later (or perhaps much later)?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Avalanchez71 on May 14, 2019, 11:17:40 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 11, 2019, 09:16:41 PM
So 13 years to build like 6 miles of rural freeway?  Or is it 14 years?  (Earth movement is first visible on Google Earth c. 2010.)  Round of applause for TnDOT. /sarcasm

This shit's taking so long, they're going to have to replace the pavement that's already in place before it even opens.  :rolleyes:
That means like, what, 2030 to get the rest of the bypass around Troy complete?  Because 2023 only gets it to a temporary end at US 51 south of UC.   :crazy:
What a joke.

I was driving around Union City this past week for work and observed first hand the glacial progress being made.  I could see some of the survey markers north of town on US 51 where I-69 will curve away from the existing freeway north of town.  Ground yet to be turned up there.  Meanwhile the interchange at TN 5 is done, but it's been idle so long, there's grass growing up between the concrete ramps and their asphalt shoulders.

This is all because TN isn't "allowed" to borrow money to build things, am I remembering that correctly?  They have to pay as they go which means it takes forever and inevitably costs way more.  That is not responsible government.  It's the opposite.  More cost, less benefit.
That is correct Tennessee is a pay as you go state.  Road bonds are taken out but they have the funds to pay them off.  The bonds cannot be issued for any future debt.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on June 29, 2019, 07:29:58 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 11, 2019, 09:16:41 PM
So 13 years to build like 6 miles of rural freeway?  Or is it 14 years?  (Earth movement is first visible on Google Earth c. 2010.)  Round of applause for TnDOT. /sarcasm

This shit's taking so long, they're going to have to replace the pavement that's already in place before it even opens.  :rolleyes:
That means like, what, 2030 to get the rest of the bypass around Troy complete?  Because 2023 only gets it to a temporary end at US 51 south of UC.   :crazy:
What a joke.

I was driving around Union City this past week for work and observed first hand the glacial progress being made.  I could see some of the survey markers north of town on US 51 where I-69 will curve away from the existing freeway north of town.  Ground yet to be turned up there.  Meanwhile the interchange at TN 5 is done, but it's been idle so long, there's grass growing up between the concrete ramps and their asphalt shoulders.

This is all because TN isn't "allowed" to borrow money to build things, am I remembering that correctly?  They have to pay as they go which means it takes forever and inevitably costs way more.  That is not responsible government.  It's the opposite.  More cost, less benefit.

Since you are occasionally in the Union City area, do you know if actual construction has started yet?  From the TN DOT website I saw that the bid was awarded to a Ford Construction Company out of Dyersburg, but cannot find anything about actual construction.  Not sure how long it takes from a bid being awarded to the time the work starts.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on June 30, 2019, 03:19:05 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on June 29, 2019, 07:29:58 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 11, 2019, 09:16:41 PM
So 13 years to build like 6 miles of rural freeway?  Or is it 14 years?  (Earth movement is first visible on Google Earth c. 2010.)  Round of applause for TnDOT. /sarcasm

This shit's taking so long, they're going to have to replace the pavement that's already in place before it even opens.  :rolleyes:
That means like, what, 2030 to get the rest of the bypass around Troy complete?  Because 2023 only gets it to a temporary end at US 51 south of UC.   :crazy:
What a joke.

I was driving around Union City this past week for work and observed first hand the glacial progress being made.  I could see some of the survey markers north of town on US 51 where I-69 will curve away from the existing freeway north of town.  Ground yet to be turned up there.  Meanwhile the interchange at TN 5 is done, but it's been idle so long, there's grass growing up between the concrete ramps and their asphalt shoulders.

This is all because TN isn't "allowed" to borrow money to build things, am I remembering that correctly?  They have to pay as they go which means it takes forever and inevitably costs way more.  That is not responsible government.  It's the opposite.  More cost, less benefit.

Since you are occasionally in the Union City area, do you know if actual construction has started yet?  From the TN DOT website I saw that the bid was awarded to a Ford Construction Company out of Dyersburg, but cannot find anything about actual construction.  Not sure how long it takes from a bid being awarded to the time the work starts.

Tennessee is one of those states that doesn't borrow money to build or maintain its roads. A few years back, Tennessee and Mississippi both enacted legislation allowing toll roads in both states. They talked about tolling sections of I-69 in each state to finance its construction, but from what I see, nothing ever came of that concept. So I-69 will continue to move along at glacial speed in Tennessee, while Mississippi is so broke right now that it can't even afford to maintain the roads it has, let alone build another interstate. But another aspect to consider in Tennessee is that the western part of the state has long been neglected in favor of Nashville and points east. Ptojects in eastern and middle Tennessee seem to get fast-tracked, while it takes 30+ years to complete the outer beltway around Memphis.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Rothman on June 30, 2019, 03:50:55 PM
Since Tennessee's program is "debt free," it does make me wonder about federal funding, which is a reimbursement program.  I wonder if TDOT and the other two states that do not use bonds are shooting themselves in the foot, since it seems that you could leverage the federal reimbursement to expand your program to some extent (i.e., let some fed funds pay off borrowed funds).

Also makes me wonder if they already are playing that game with first instance funding and are just putting on a simpler presentation to the public.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: wdcrft63 on July 05, 2019, 06:56:00 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 30, 2019, 03:50:55 PM
Since Tennessee's program is "debt free," it does make me wonder about federal funding, which is a reimbursement program.  I wonder if TDOT and the other two states that do not use bonds are shooting themselves in the foot, since it seems that you could leverage the federal reimbursement to expand your program to some extent (i.e., let some fed funds pay off borrowed funds).

Also makes me wonder if they already are playing that game with first instance funding and are just putting on a simpler presentation to the public.
Tennessee's gas tax (26.4¢/gallon) is higher than most southern states, but overall the state budget is constrained by a lack of a general income tax. Nothing wrong with low taxes and low debt, except it means doing without some services.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on July 06, 2019, 08:58:41 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 30, 2019, 03:50:55 PM
Since Tennessee's program is "debt free," it does make me wonder about federal funding, which is a reimbursement program.  I wonder if TDOT and the other two states that do not use bonds are shooting themselves in the foot, since it seems that you could leverage the federal reimbursement to expand your program to some extent (i.e., let some fed funds pay off borrowed funds).

Also makes me wonder if they already are playing that game with first instance funding and are just putting on a simpler presentation to the public.

For one thing, it makes it easier to move state projects without onerous federal requirements if they're 100-percent state funded. That's why US 23 got finished in Tennessee long before it did in North Carolina.

Quote from: wdcrft63 on July 05, 2019, 06:56:00 PM
Tennessee's gas tax (26.4¢/gallon) is higher than most southern states, but overall the state budget is constrained by a lack of a general income tax. Nothing wrong with low taxes and low debt, except it means doing without some services.

Doubtful that gas taxes (road fund) and income taxes (general fund) are intermingled.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: ilpt4u on July 06, 2019, 09:24:18 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 06, 2019, 08:58:41 PM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on July 05, 2019, 06:56:00 PM
Tennessee's gas tax (26.4¢/gallon) is higher than most southern states, but overall the state budget is constrained by a lack of a general income tax. Nothing wrong with low taxes and low debt, except it means doing without some services.

Doubtful that gas taxes (road fund) and income taxes (general fund) are intermingled.
That varies by state. There is a reason IL voters approved a "lock box"  state constitutional amendment for gas taxes to be constitutionally dedicated to road/transportation spending

Then again, IL is not exactly the beacon for state fiscal responsibility, either

TN keeping state debt low is at least a fiscally sound way to operate.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on July 13, 2019, 10:17:34 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on July 06, 2019, 09:24:18 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 06, 2019, 08:58:41 PM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on July 05, 2019, 06:56:00 PM
Tennessee's gas tax (26.4¢/gallon) is higher than most southern states, but overall the state budget is constrained by a lack of a general income tax. Nothing wrong with low taxes and low debt, except it means doing without some services.

Doubtful that gas taxes (road fund) and income taxes (general fund) are intermingled.
That varies by state. There is a reason IL voters approved a "lock box"  state constitutional amendment for gas taxes to be constitutionally dedicated to road/transportation spending

Then again, IL is not exactly the beacon for state fiscal responsibility, either

TN keeping state debt low is at least a fiscally sound way to operate.

There is some goodness to the pay-as-you go approach that Tennessee (and many other states, including out here in New Mexico) that have adopted in that these states don't have to worry about mounting debt later on down the line that eats into the state's ability to finance more road construction and maintenance projects as debt service gets paid before any projects can be covered.  Connecticut is going through that problem right now that over the past 30 or so years since the removal of tolls from that state. Lawmakers and officials in Connecticut believed for way too long that they could just keep borrowing money to finance road construction and maintenance, but it's important to bear in mind is that the bill will come due eventually.  And just like when someone runs up a balance on their credit card, once a state has a huge debt load like Connecticut's, it gets really hard to pay it down while continuing to find money to maintain the road network that's already there.  And so Connecticut is facing the hard conversation that no one there wants to have...bringing back tolls.

Back in Tennessee, the pay-as-you-go model is not without its own challenges, as the state has more projects that it can afford to finance at any given time.  So the powers that be in Tennessee end up having to rack and stack all of the state's road needs and then draw a line.  The projects that are above the line get funded and built, while those that don't make the cut this go-around get pushed off another year.  For I-69, is nowhere close to being dead in Tennessee, but its development and construction will move at glacial speed unless lawmakers there are willing to site down, have the hard conversations, and make the tough decisions to generate new revenue streams to finance more projects that are currently not making the cut.  Indexing the fuel tax to the price of fuel (with a "floor"), mileage taxes on electric or hybrid vehicles, or tolls on certain highways are options worth exploring IMHO.

Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Bobby5280 on July 14, 2019, 03:42:05 AM
The folks in Tennessee, as well as other states like Arkansas, Texas, Louisiana and Kentucky who have significant segments of I-69 left to build could always fall back on the toll road option. Getting things done via gasoline taxes will likely take multiple decades or even a freaking century to complete. The current situation is pretty terrible.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: MikeTheActuary on July 14, 2019, 01:38:50 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on July 14, 2019, 03:42:05 AM
The folks in Tennessee, as well as other states like Arkansas, Texas, Louisiana and Kentucky who have significant segments of I-69 left to build could always fall back on the toll road option. Getting things done via gasoline taxes will likely take multiple decades or even a freaking century to complete. The current situation is pretty terrible.

I don't know that it's terrible as much as it's unclear that there is a great enough need for I-69 to some of the states you've mentioned to create a desire to invest in new construction or upgrading existing facilities.

For example, in Tennessee, if there weren't a push for I-69, wouldn't US 51 in its current state...perhaps with an extra bypass or two...meet the foreseeable need (especially given the proximity to I-55, especially if I-55 could be upgraded from 4-6 lanes)?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on July 14, 2019, 03:32:17 PM
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on July 14, 2019, 01:38:50 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on July 14, 2019, 03:42:05 AM
The folks in Tennessee, as well as other states like Arkansas, Texas, Louisiana and Kentucky who have significant segments of I-69 left to build could always fall back on the toll road option. Getting things done via gasoline taxes will likely take multiple decades or even a freaking century to complete. The current situation is pretty terrible.

I don't know that it's terrible as much as it's unclear that there is a great enough need for I-69 to some of the states you've mentioned to create a desire to invest in new construction or upgrading existing facilities.

For example, in Tennessee, if there weren't a push for I-69, wouldn't US 51 in its current state...perhaps with an extra bypass or two...meet the foreseeable need (especially given the proximity to I-55, especially if I-55 could be upgraded from 4-6 lanes)?

If any part of SIU-8 should be built sooner rather than later, the bypass around Dyersburg should go first, as Dyersburg is the largest city along SIU-8 and has the most congestion, traffic lights, etc.  With the completion of I-269 around Memphis, priority should also be given to the last piece of SIU-9 that remains to be built: roughly 9-mile segment starting where TN-300 currently ends at US-51 and ending in Millington with the new interchange with I-269, which includes a short extension of I-269/TN-385 to said interchange. It's be a very long time since I've seen any update on the TN-300 to Millington section.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Grzrd on July 20, 2019, 01:01:00 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on April 19, 2017, 07:11:29 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on February 10, 2017, 01:43:28 PM
It is interesting which SIU 8 projects were included: they are concentrated in Lauderdale County, in the middle of SIU 8. The IMPROVE Act map (https://www.tdot.tn.gov/projectneeds/spot#/) provides a good illustration:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_10_02_17_2_44_16.png)
This article (http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/politics/state/story/2017/apr/19/haslam-optimistic-gtax-bill-vote-today-oppone/423564/) reports that Gov. Haslam's IMPROVE Act legislation passed the Tennessee House and Senate today. It has to go back to the House for some minor reconciliation language, but it appears to be a done deal:
Quote
The state House this afternoon approved Tennessee's first gas tax increase in 28 years, voting 60-37 for Republican Gov. Bill Haslam's proposed IMPROVE Act ....
Now, in regard to SIU 8 and the Lauderdale County projects (as well as the Kentucky state line section), TDOT needs to hurry up and finish the respective Final Environmental Impact Statements and submit them to the FHWA for Records of Decision.
Quote from: Grzrd on May 24, 2017, 07:32:39 PM
I recently emailed TDOT with some questions about the various projects ....
Finally, the wait for a SIU 8 Record of Decison (ROD) could be a couple of years away:
Quote
Q: Finally, how is the FEIS on SIU 8 progressing? When do you expect a ROD on it?
A: I don't anticipate having a ROD until 2019 at the earliest.

Since we are now past the mid-point of 2019, I emailed TDOT and asked about the progress of the EIS/ROD. The response from the Environmental Division:

Quote
TDOT is continuing to work through the planning and environmental processes on the I-69 SIU 8 project.  Once the review to determine if a revision is needed to the environmental technical study area is completed, the Environmental Division should be able to better predict when the NEPA document (EIS/ROD) will be completed.

It looks like the SIU 8 projects will be among the last to begin construction during the ten-year IMPROVE Act plan, but TDOT's IMPROVE Act map (https://www.tdot.tn.gov/projectneeds/spot#/) indicates preliminary engineering is currently going on in all SIU 8 sections:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_20_07_19_3_24_08.png)
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: rte66man on July 24, 2019, 04:49:42 PM
I found it interesting that I-69 northbound at the TN-KY border will go past the existing interchange before it bends to the west of Fulton.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on July 25, 2019, 06:50:37 PM
Quote from: rte66man on July 24, 2019, 04:49:42 PM
I found it interesting that I-69 northbound at the TN-KY border will go past the existing interchange before it bends to the west of Fulton.

An iteration of that particular plan was shown a year or two ago on the forum; it looked like that configuration was done to avoid a TOTSO at the existing (45/51) interchange -- and that there were less improved properties to take via that alignment.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on July 25, 2019, 11:11:29 PM
Quote from: sparker on July 25, 2019, 06:50:37 PM
Quote from: rte66man on July 24, 2019, 04:49:42 PM
I found it interesting that I-69 northbound at the TN-KY border will go past the existing interchange before it bends to the west of Fulton.

An iteration of that particular plan was shown a year or two ago on the forum; it looked like that configuration was done to avoid a TOTSO at the existing (45/51) interchange -- and that there were less improved properties to take via that alignment.

TOTSO

"sauteed fish with tahuri (soybean curd)"

Interesting, a road designed to avoid a Filipino restaurant. This has got to be a first.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: amroad17 on July 26, 2019, 12:20:29 AM
TOTSO=Turn Off To Stay On  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Rothman on July 26, 2019, 08:57:35 AM
Quote from: amroad17 on July 26, 2019, 12:20:29 AM
TOTSO=Turn Off To Stay On  :rolleyes:
No need to roll your eyes.  It is a real esoteric acronym that is almost totally just used on this board.  Even on here, it isn't used that frequently.

So, rolling your eyes at someone who was just having a little fun with such a rare acronym just seems like misplaced condescension.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on July 26, 2019, 10:44:47 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 26, 2019, 08:57:35 AM
Quote from: amroad17 on July 26, 2019, 12:20:29 AM
TOTSO=Turn Off To Stay On  :rolleyes:
No need to roll your eyes.  It is a real esoteric acronym that is almost totally just used on this board.  Even on here, it isn't used that frequently.

So, rolling your eyes at someone who was just having a little fun with such a rare acronym just seems like misplaced condescension.

I looked it up in a few acronym and urban dictionaries and it kept pointing me to a filipino delicacy.

I figure i would get the true meaning eventually.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Verlanka on July 27, 2019, 04:54:35 AM
Quote from: Rothman on July 26, 2019, 08:57:35 AM
Quote from: amroad17 on July 26, 2019, 12:20:29 AM
TOTSO=Turn Off To Stay On  :rolleyes:
No need to roll your eyes.  It is a real esoteric acronym that is almost totally just used on this board.
Even so, that may be the first time I've seen that acronym.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Echostatic on July 27, 2019, 08:16:41 PM
I've definitely seen TOTSO used before. Pretty sure it was referring to the I-55 northbound cloverleaf exit in Memphis.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on July 27, 2019, 08:52:40 PM
TOTSO dates back to MTR. It may even be in the old MTR FAQ.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Rothman on July 27, 2019, 10:01:34 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 27, 2019, 08:52:40 PM
TOTSO dates back to MTR. It may even be in the old MTR FAQ.
It's in there, but MTR is as ancient as the Iliad.  Expecting people to go back to that is rather silly.

To Echo:  My point was not that it isn't used at all, but it is rather rare even in use on here.  It is little wonder the new crop of geeks don't know it, because it's almost solely used on this board.

If you went into a DOT's design squad and started talking about TOTSOs, they'd look at you cockeyed.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on July 28, 2019, 03:23:44 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 27, 2019, 10:01:34 PM
If you went into a DOT's design squad and started talking about TOTSOs, they'd look at you cockeyed.

Same for BGS.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Rothman on July 28, 2019, 03:43:43 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 28, 2019, 03:23:44 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 27, 2019, 10:01:34 PM
If you went into a DOT's design squad and started talking about TOTSOs, they'd look at you cockeyed.

Same for BGS.
Yep.  That's a good one, too!
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: amroad17 on July 30, 2019, 09:16:27 PM
I do apologize about the eye roll.  I did not know that putting in TOTSO would lead to something about a Filipino restaurant. 
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on August 05, 2019, 04:42:10 PM
According to both Apple maps and Google Maps TN 21 is closed for construction right at the point where it will have an interchange with I-69.

Found more on the TDOT Construction site concerning I-69:

https://www.tn.gov/tdot/news/2019/7/31/west-tennessee-weekly-construction-july-21-august-7--2019.html

OBION COUNTY, Future I-69 (Phase 2): Grading, drainage, construction of eight bridges on future I-69 from south of US 51 (SR 3) to south of US 45W (SR 5) will cause possible lane closures throughout the project. *Speed limit is reduced to 45 MPH through the US 51 (SR 3) portion of the project. The southbound traffic has been switched to the northbound side on SR 3 throughout the work zone, for phase 2 construction.
Restrictions: Tuesday, November 13, 2018 SR 3 has a lane shift in the north and southbound directions. Traffic is reduced to one lane in each direction with an 11’ 6” lane restriction.

OBION COUNTY, Future I-69 (Phase 3): Grading, drainage, construction of bridges and paving on future I-69 from west of SR 21to US 51 (SR 3) will cause possible lane closures throughout the project.
Beginning on Monday, July 29, 2019, weather permitting. SR 21 North will from Clifford Rives Road to Lindenwood Road. The closure is expected for approximately 1 year to allow the construction of the overhead Bridge on the new portion of SR 21 along with the Road & Drainage of the I-69 mainline. Northbound traffic will detour from SR 21 East onto Clifford Rives Road, then North on Bethlehem Road, West onto Lindenwood Road before  proceeding North on SR 21. Southbound traffic will be in reverse order. Detour routes are posted.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: TNObion on October 22, 2019, 08:05:23 AM
Hello..new to the forum. As a West Tn resident, this forum has been a wealth of information regarding the Interstate construction in my area.  Progress has really started to ramp up the last couple of months. I snapped a few photos and (if I can load them properly) am going to post them here.

Hwy 51 at Mayberry Rd overpass, looking west:
https://flic.kr/p/2hyN54Y


SR 21 looking south:
https://flic.kr/p/2hyNiR7

These last two were taken off a friends property, just off Claude tucker road, looking east and west, respectively:

https://flic.kr/p/2hyNi3d

https://flic.kr/p/2hyJtj4












Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: dcharlie on October 22, 2019, 09:23:45 AM
Nice pics.  Thanks for posting!
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: -- US 175 -- on October 22, 2019, 01:45:27 PM
...and welcome to the forum!
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on October 22, 2019, 05:18:34 PM
Quote from: TNObion on October 22, 2019, 08:05:23 AM
Hello..new to the forum. As a West Tn resident, this forum has been a wealth of information regarding the Interstate construction in my area.  Progress has really started to ramp up the last couple of months. I snapped a few photos and (if I can load them properly) am going to post them here.

Hwy 51 at Mayberry Rd overpass, looking west:
https://flic.kr/p/2hyN54Y


SR 21 looking south:
https://flic.kr/p/2hyNiR7

These last two were taken off a friends property, just off Claude tucker road, looking east and west, respectively:

https://flic.kr/p/2hyNi3d

https://flic.kr/p/2hyJtj4

Awesome!  You can be the ITB* of this thread.  😁

*ITB is a forum member who has posted a large number of photos of the I-69 construction in Indiana
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: TNObion on October 22, 2019, 09:13:22 PM
Thanks for the welcome guys. It is good to finally see progress being made after the project being stalled for, well, years. Now our infamous "road to nowhere" can soon be completed (at least locally) and hopefully help put this area on the map, so to speak.

Construction is now being done in pretty much my backyard, so if anyone had interests or wants to see progress I will be happy to post more pictures, if you have a specific area feel free to ask.  The landscape here has changed quite a lot in the past couple of months, looking forward to seeing this completed!
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on October 23, 2019, 12:15:12 PM
Quote from: TNObion on October 22, 2019, 09:13:22 PM
Thanks for the welcome guys. It is good to finally see progress being made after the project being stalled for, well, years. Now our infamous "road to nowhere" can soon be completed (at least locally) and hopefully help put this area on the map, so to speak.

Construction is now being done in pretty much my backyard, so if anyone had interests or wants to see progress I will be happy to post more pictures, if you have a specific area feel free to ask.  The landscape here has changed quite a lot in the past couple of months, looking forward to seeing this completed!

It's been awhile since I've been down there. When I was, things were pretty stagnant on the northwest side of Union City, and some work was being done around US 51 south of town. I'm anxious to see how the project at the state line is going to come about.

I found it very interesting how much closer so much of that part of Kentucky is to Union City than it is to Paducah.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on October 23, 2019, 02:35:30 PM
Maybe as a precursor to completing future Interstate 69 between the end of Interstate 155 and the Tennessee/Kentucky border, the existing exits on US 51 from 155 to TN-183 could be given numbers (based on Interstate 69's future mileage from the Mississippi/Tennessee border), and mile markers could be erected. I think that would be a great way to transition the conversion of the corridor into becoming Interstate 69.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: X99 on October 23, 2019, 07:36:14 PM
When I-69 is finished between Michigan and I-155, technically the route is complete to Texarkana, using I-155, I-55, I-40, I-30, and I-369.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on October 23, 2019, 08:31:31 PM
Quote from: X99 on October 23, 2019, 07:36:14 PM
When I-69 is finished between Michigan and I-155, technically A route is complete to Texarkana, using I-155, I-55, I-40, I-30, and I-369.

FTFY.  A routing option, not a specific corridor.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on October 23, 2019, 08:31:42 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on October 23, 2019, 02:35:30 PM
Maybe as a precursor to completing future Interstate 69 between the end of Interstate 155 and the Tennessee/Kentucky border, the existing exits on US 51 from 155 to TN-183 could be given numbers (based on Interstate 69's future mileage from the Mississippi/Tennessee border), and mile markers could be erected. I think that would be a great way to transition the conversion of the corridor into becoming Interstate 69.

It would be hard to do that right now because the exact alignment for SIU-8 between Dyersburg and Millington has not yet been finalized. I think a Draft EIS was issued, but funding issues and environmental groups fighting over the alignment of I-69 through the Hatchie River basin are holding up the Final EIS and ROD.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on October 24, 2019, 04:57:02 PM
Am I the only one who doesn't find the US 51 corridor from TN 385 north to Dyersburg not all that much of a pain to drive? Sure, there are a few stoplights, but it's nothing major. I've driven all of it twice and segments at other times, and didn't find it an inconvenience.

Say it again, slowly. Not everything needs to be a full freeway.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: wdcrft63 on October 24, 2019, 06:13:40 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 24, 2019, 04:57:02 PM
Am I the only one who doesn't find the US 51 corridor from TN 385 north to Dyersburg not all that much of a pain to drive? Sure, there are a few stoplights, but it's nothing major. I've driven all of it twice and segments at other times, and didn't find it an inconvenience.

Say it again, slowly. Not everything needs to be a full freeway.
That is true, so no freeway construction is likely anytime soon. But one day a freeway will be needed, and what's important is to plan for that day and do whatever needs to be done to make it possible down the road. 20 years ago lots of people would have said that US 70 east of Raleigh NC didn't need to be a full freeway, but now everything wants I-42. Some sections of US 70 were is in good shape to be upgraded, and others weren't.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: rte66man on October 24, 2019, 07:25:57 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 24, 2019, 04:57:02 PM
Am I the only one who doesn't find the US 51 corridor from TN 385 north to Dyersburg not all that much of a pain to drive? Sure, there are a few stoplights, but it's nothing major. I've driven all of it twice and segments at other times, and didn't find it an inconvenience.

I find there to be way more than "a few" stoplights. A random view of Google shows 6 in Millington, one south of Atoka, one in Atoka, one in Brighton, and eight in Covington.  Didn't bother to go any further north but you get the picture. I personally can't wait for a Covington bypass.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on October 24, 2019, 07:34:03 PM
Quote from: rte66man on October 24, 2019, 07:25:57 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 24, 2019, 04:57:02 PM
Am I the only one who doesn't find the US 51 corridor from TN 385 north to Dyersburg not all that much of a pain to drive? Sure, there are a few stoplights, but it's nothing major. I've driven all of it twice and segments at other times, and didn't find it an inconvenience.

I find there to be way more than "a few" stoplights. A random view of Google shows 6 in Millington, one south of Atoka, one in Atoka, one in Brighton, and eight in Covington.  Didn't bother to go any further north but you get the picture. I personally can't wait for a Covington bypass.

Maybe just do a bypass of Covington then? I have never done the US 51/I-155/I-55 combination as a through route from Kentucky to Memphis or points southwest, but I'd certainly use that, especially if I was going to Arkansas or Texas or points west. (Definitely not ever using I-40 from Nashville to Memphis ever again.) I'm not convinced that the best solution wouldn't be to route I-69 on that corridor and back into Tennessee via I-55, instead of doing a bunch of new construction on the east side of the river when a freeway already exists on the west with a really good crossing option.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sprjus4 on October 24, 2019, 07:37:57 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 24, 2019, 07:34:03 PM
(Definitely not ever using I-40 from Nashville to Memphis ever again.)
I've only done that routing once, a weekday in August, but when I did, as far as truck traffic & traffic goes, it really wasn't that bad. You get the occasional micro-pass or that one truck who insists on maintaining 70-72 mph and has to pass 20 trucks at once all doing 65 mph in the right lane, but a lot of times the truck passing is done within 1-2 minutes at most.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on October 24, 2019, 08:14:59 PM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on October 24, 2019, 06:13:40 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 24, 2019, 04:57:02 PM
Am I the only one who doesn't find the US 51 corridor from TN 385 north to Dyersburg not all that much of a pain to drive? Sure, there are a few stoplights, but it's nothing major. I've driven all of it twice and segments at other times, and didn't find it an inconvenience.

Say it again, slowly. Not everything needs to be a full freeway.
That is true, so no freeway construction is likely anytime soon. But one day a freeway will be needed, and what's important is to plan for that day and do whatever needs to be done to make it possible down the road. 20 years ago lots of people would have said that US 70 east of Raleigh NC didn't need to be a full freeway, but now everything wants I-42. Some sections of US 70 were is in good shape to be upgraded, and others weren't.

Part of the problematic nature of US 51 between Memphis and Dyersburg is the fact that much of it, as wetlands or "bottomland" farm acreage, is practically (or financially) undevelopable as housing areas, particularly north of TN 385.  Thus there is little or no "SIU" value as a facility to expedite commuter traffic north out of Memphis -- that city's 'burbs tend to head east or even south into MS.  The only section of true local value would be the southernmost portion between TN 300 and 385, where there is housing with the potential for expansion.  I-69 beyond the immediate metro area is, for all intents & purposes, useful primarily as a longer-distance corridor.   And absent any localized pressure to complete the freeway due to "homegrown" needs, the corridor is likely to be developed on a more leisurely -- ".....eventually we'll get around to it" basis.   
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: LM117 on October 25, 2019, 10:37:46 AM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on October 24, 2019, 06:13:40 PM
20 years ago lots of people would have said that US 70 east of Raleigh NC didn't need to be a full freeway, but now everything wants I-42. Some sections of US 70 were is in good shape to be upgraded, and others weren't.

Not to get too far OT, but until recent years, US-70 was always a mess. There just wasn't much of a political will for a freeway upgrade 20 years ago because there was very little (if any) cooperation between towns/cities/counties in eastern NC back then. When they finally realized that the status quo wasn't cutting it, they formed the US-70 Corridor Commission and, well, the squeaky wheel got the grease...or rather, I-42.

One thing I never understood is that aside from I-40, US-70 carries the most E/W traffic in eastern NC, and yet US-64 and US-264 were made 70mph freeways while parts of US-70 remained(s) a death trap. That blows my mind.

/OT
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Tomahawkin on October 25, 2019, 11:33:16 AM
Sparker. That was a great analysis of the land use north of Memphis. That makes perfect sense as to why I have not seen much development there, the last 25 years or so...
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on October 25, 2019, 02:55:19 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on October 24, 2019, 07:37:57 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 24, 2019, 07:34:03 PM
(Definitely not ever using I-40 from Nashville to Memphis ever again.)
I've only done that routing once, a weekday in August, but when I did, as far as truck traffic & traffic goes, it really wasn't that bad. You get the occasional micro-pass or that one truck who insists on maintaining 70-72 mph and has to pass 20 trucks at once all doing 65 mph in the right lane, but a lot of times the truck passing is done within 1-2 minutes at most.

My issue was that it was exceedingly long and boring, with lots of traffic. Compare it to the Kentucky parkways, which have a lot less traffic and to me are more scenic. I drove it on New Year's Day a few years ago and it was still agonizing.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sprjus4 on October 25, 2019, 04:07:41 PM
Quote from: LM117 on October 25, 2019, 10:37:46 AM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on October 24, 2019, 06:13:40 PM
20 years ago lots of people would have said that US 70 east of Raleigh NC didn't need to be a full freeway, but now everything wants I-42. Some sections of US 70 were is in good shape to be upgraded, and others weren't.

Not to get too far OT, but until recent years, US-70 was always a mess. There just wasn't much of a political will for a freeway upgrade 20 years ago because there was very little (if any) cooperation between towns/cities/counties in eastern NC back then. When they finally realized that the status quo wasn't cutting it, they formed the US-70 Corridor Commission and, well, the squeaky wheel got the grease...or rather, I-42.

One thing I never understood is that aside from I-40, US-70 carries the most E/W traffic in eastern NC, and yet US-64 and US-264 were made 70mph freeways while parts of US-70 remained(s) a death trap. That blows my mind.

/OT
US-70 was largely 4-lane or being widened to 4-lanes in the 70s whereas US-64 and US-264 were only 2-lane roads. They determined to four-lane those two corridors, building on new location would be less impactful and better overall than widening. Same scenario with US-220 which is now I-73, and US-29 north of Reidsville. US-70 would likely have gotten the same treatment had it been 2-lanes. Another example would be US-17 north of Williamston - mostly completed in the 70s. If it were still 2-lane, it likely too would have gotten the freeway treatment on new location.

As North Carolina's freeway system is expanding, both US-17 and US-70 will too get the freeway treatment in the ultimate picture, piece by piece.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Bobby5280 on October 25, 2019, 04:27:49 PM
Quote from: hbelkinsMy issue was that it was exceedingly long and boring, with lots of traffic. Compare it to the Kentucky parkways, which have a lot less traffic and to me are more scenic. I drove it on New Year's Day a few years ago and it was still agonizing.

I agree I-40 between Memphis and Nashville is a bit of a boring slog. The first 130 or so miles East of Memphis has these long straight paths yet the highway goes up and down these modest hills in what seems like a very repetitive, monotonous way.

With so much of it all looking the same it's easy to feel like you're not making any progress getting from point A to point B. Throw in all the heavy truck traffic for good measure. The drive only starts to get a little more interesting when reaching the outskirts of Nashville provided there isn't even more traffic to affect the drive.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sprjus4 on October 25, 2019, 04:36:44 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on October 25, 2019, 04:27:49 PM
Quote from: hbelkinsMy issue was that it was exceedingly long and boring, with lots of traffic. Compare it to the Kentucky parkways, which have a lot less traffic and to me are more scenic. I drove it on New Year's Day a few years ago and it was still agonizing.

I agree I-40 between Memphis and Nashville is a bit of a boring slog. The first 130 or so miles East of Memphis has these long straight paths yet the highway goes up and down these modest hills in what seems like a very repetitive, monotonous way.

With so much of it all looking the same it's easy to feel like you're not making any progress getting from point A to point B. Throw in all the heavy truck traffic for good measure. The drive only starts to get a little more interesting when reaching the outskirts of Nashville provided there isn't even more traffic to affect the drive.
I agree it's a boring run, but if you need to get from Point A to Point B, it's the fastest route, and unless I have lots of time on my hand to detour to Kentucky's parkways, I'm going to stick with it.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on October 26, 2019, 05:34:52 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on October 25, 2019, 04:36:44 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on October 25, 2019, 04:27:49 PM
Quote from: hbelkinsMy issue was that it was exceedingly long and boring, with lots of traffic. Compare it to the Kentucky parkways, which have a lot less traffic and to me are more scenic. I drove it on New Year's Day a few years ago and it was still agonizing.

I agree I-40 between Memphis and Nashville is a bit of a boring slog. The first 130 or so miles East of Memphis has these long straight paths yet the highway goes up and down these modest hills in what seems like a very repetitive, monotonous way.

With so much of it all looking the same it's easy to feel like you're not making any progress getting from point A to point B. Throw in all the heavy truck traffic for good measure. The drive only starts to get a little more interesting when reaching the outskirts of Nashville provided there isn't even more traffic to affect the drive.
I agree it's a boring run, but if you need to get from Point A to Point B, it's the fastest route, and unless I have lots of time on my hand to detour to Kentucky's parkways, I'm going to stick with it.

From where you are, sure. But from my location, there are all sorts of advantages to not going through Nashville. Not going through Nashville being tops among them.  :bigass:

And with there soon to be a four-lane corridor all the way from Somerset to Mayfield/Purchase Parkway/I-69, I don't even need to go north to Lexington to head southwest. Somerset will soon be about 90 minutes from me due to new construction between my area and London. The Cumberland Parkway/I-65/I-165/US 68/KY 80 corridor will be a breeze across the southern part of the state.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Wayward Memphian on October 27, 2019, 07:52:30 AM
Quote from: sparker on October 24, 2019, 08:14:59 PM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on October 24, 2019, 06:13:40 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 24, 2019, 04:57:02 PM
Am I the only one who doesn't find the US 51 corridor from TN 385 north to Dyersburg not all that much of a pain to drive? Sure, there are a few stoplights, but it's nothing major. I've driven all of it twice and segments at other times, and didn't find it an inconvenience.

Say it again, slowly. Not everything needs to be a full freeway.
That is true, so no freeway construction is likely anytime soon. But one day a freeway will be needed, and what's important is to plan for that day and do whatever needs to be done to make it possible down the road. 20 years ago lots of people would have said that US 70 east of Raleigh NC didn't need to be a full freeway, but now everything wants I-42. Some sections of US 70 were is in good shape to be upgraded, and others weren't.

Part of the problematic nature of US 51 between Memphis and Dyersburg is the fact that much of it, as wetlands or "bottomland" farm acreage, is practically (or financially) undevelopable as housing areas, particularly north of TN 385.  Thus there is little or no "SIU" value as a facility to expedite commuter traffic north out of Memphis -- that city's 'burbs tend to head east or even south into MS.  The only section of true local value would be the southernmost portion between TN 300 and 385, where there is housing with the potential for expansion.  I-69 beyond the immediate metro area is, for all intents & purposes, useful primarily as a longer-distance corridor.   And absent any localized pressure to complete the freeway due to "homegrown" needs, the corridor is likely to be developed on a more leisurely -- ".....eventually we'll get around to it" basis.   

Here the thing. With Downtown Memphisnseeming becoming 'hot'. The best house building blank slates and transit time lies in AR. The bottleneck and the specter of West Memphis.and it's ills have really held it back. Another route getting the OTR traffic through the area decreasing it over the Old.Bridge.and it's a light free boulevard to downtown.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: rte66man on October 27, 2019, 09:09:32 AM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on October 25, 2019, 04:27:49 PM
Quote from: hbelkinsMy issue was that it was exceedingly long and boring, with lots of traffic. Compare it to the Kentucky parkways, which have a lot less traffic and to me are more scenic. I drove it on New Year's Day a few years ago and it was still agonizing.

I agree I-40 between Memphis and Nashville is a bit of a boring slog. The first 130 or so miles East of Memphis has these long straight paths yet the highway goes up and down these modest hills in what seems like a very repetitive, monotonous way.

With so much of it all looking the same it's easy to feel like you're not making any progress getting from point A to point B. Throw in all the heavy truck traffic for good measure. The drive only starts to get a little more interesting when reaching the outskirts of Nashville provided there isn't even more traffic to affect the drive.

Agree that Memphis to the Tennessee River bridge is monotonous, but I rather enjoy the stretch from there to Nashville.  It tends to follow the terrain more than just blasting through it.  I was always curious why it took a more or less straight line from Jackson to Nashville instead of following US70.  Even back in the 60's, I wold have thought that towns like Huntington, Camden, and Waverly would have raised a big stink. I remember how terrible TN69 from I40 to Camden was.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on October 29, 2019, 04:53:17 PM
If/when the Interstate 69 freeway gets constructed, could they possibly utilize some of the existing US 51 four-lane highway as part of the route? Or are there too many homes and businesses along the route to make anything but a new alignment practical?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Bobby5280 on October 29, 2019, 09:53:36 PM
They might be able to upgrade some existing segments of US-51 between Millington and Dyersburg, such as the rural segment South of Dyersburg that passes West of the towns of Halls and Gates. Farther South, closer to Millington, too much of the existing US-51 highway has been encroached by development. There's not enough space to expand it into a freeway flanked by frontage roads. There is one spot near Atoka where US-51 spreads out in a Texas-style freeway upgrade-ready configuration. But some idiot sold the land in the median to residential development, so there's a freaking home sitting in the middle of it! Gotta love that cronyism and bureaucrats who can't see the big picture.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Scott5114 on October 30, 2019, 07:33:14 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 24, 2019, 04:57:02 PM
Am I the only one who doesn't find the US 51 corridor from TN 385 north to Dyersburg not all that much of a pain to drive?

Quote from: hbelkins on October 24, 2019, 04:57:02 PM
Say it again, slowly.

Well, you're the boss.

Quote from: hbelkins on October 24, 2019, 04:57:02 PM
Am I the only one

Uh-huh...with you so far...

Quote from: hbelkins on October 24, 2019, 04:57:02 PM
who doesn't find

Right...

Quote from: hbelkins on October 24, 2019, 04:57:02 PM
the US 51 corridor from TN 385 north to Dyersburg

That's a road...

Quote from: hbelkins on October 24, 2019, 04:57:02 PM
not all that much of a pain to drive?

Wait, what?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: froggie on October 30, 2019, 08:42:11 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on October 29, 2019, 04:53:17 PM
If/when the Interstate 69 freeway gets constructed, could they possibly utilize some of the existing US 51 four-lane highway as part of the route? Or are there too many homes and businesses along the route to make anything but a new alignment practical?

You could have answered your own question with a quick look at Google Maps.

Quote from: Bobby5280But some idiot sold the land in the median to residential development, so there's a freaking home sitting in the middle of it! Gotta love that cronyism and bureaucrats who can't see the big picture.

Keep in mind that Tennessee, like much of the South, places a high emphasis on property rights...often a higher emphasis than on proper infrastructure.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: seicer on October 30, 2019, 10:21:58 AM
Is I-69 signed north of Memphis anywhere? There is a segment of US 51 on Google Maps that shows up with I-69 shields.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: MikeTheActuary on October 30, 2019, 11:02:22 AM
Quote from: seicer on October 30, 2019, 10:21:58 AM
Is I-69 signed north of Memphis anywhere? There is a segment of US 51 on Google Maps that shows up with I-69 shields.

Ignoring the "future I-69 corridor" signs, according to TDOT, I-69 doesn't exist in Tennessee yet.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: X99 on October 30, 2019, 12:20:11 PM
Quote from: seicer on October 30, 2019, 10:21:58 AM
Is I-69 signed north of Memphis anywhere? There is a segment of US 51 on Google Maps that shows up with I-69 shields.
Oh yeah, I remember seeing that. I-69 is signed on the segment of US 51 at the TN-183 interchange, BETWEEN the ramp sets, and nowhere else in the area. At the zoom level where only Interstates and in-development Interstate corridors (like US 70/I-42) show up, the segment is so small it doesn't exist.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Hot Rod Hootenanny on October 30, 2019, 09:32:38 PM
Quote from: seicer on October 30, 2019, 10:21:58 AM
Is I-69 signed north of Memphis anywhere? There is a segment of US 51 on Google Maps that shows up with I-69 shields.

How far north do you want? There are plenty of I-69 shields in Kentucky, Indiana, and Michigan.  :evilgrin: :sombrero:
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Verlanka on October 31, 2019, 05:14:24 AM
Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on October 30, 2019, 09:32:38 PM
Quote from: seicer on October 30, 2019, 10:21:58 AM
Is I-69 signed north of Memphis anywhere? There is a segment of US 51 on Google Maps that shows up with I-69 shields.

How far north do you want? There are plenty of I-69 shields in Kentucky, Indiana, and Michigan.  :evilgrin: :sombrero:
He ment in Tennessee.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on October 31, 2019, 11:59:23 AM
Quote from: X99 on October 30, 2019, 12:20:11 PM
Quote from: seicer on October 30, 2019, 10:21:58 AM
Is I-69 signed north of Memphis anywhere? There is a segment of US 51 on Google Maps that shows up with I-69 shields.
Oh yeah, I remember seeing that. I-69 is signed on the segment of US 51 at the TN-183 interchange, BETWEEN the ramp sets, and nowhere else in the area. At the zoom level where only Interstates and in-development Interstate corridors (like US 70/I-42) show up, the segment is so small it doesn't exist.

I just looked at that section on Google Maps and could not find the I-69 signs.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: X99 on October 31, 2019, 12:36:40 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on October 31, 2019, 11:59:23 AM
Quote from: X99 on October 30, 2019, 12:20:11 PM
Quote from: seicer on October 30, 2019, 10:21:58 AM
Is I-69 signed north of Memphis anywhere? There is a segment of US 51 on Google Maps that shows up with I-69 shields.
Oh yeah, I remember seeing that. I-69 is signed on the segment of US 51 at the TN-183 interchange, BETWEEN the ramp sets, and nowhere else in the area. At the zoom level where only Interstates and in-development Interstate corridors (like US 70/I-42) show up, the segment is so small it doesn't exist.

I just looked at that section on Google Maps and could not find the I-69 signs.
Exact location (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.2616481,-89.2137878,16.2z)
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: triplemultiplex on October 31, 2019, 01:02:07 PM
I wouldn't anticipate any I-69 shields in TN until the world's slowest construction project is finally done in Union City.
Seriously, they've been going at that thing for almost a decade already and it's still years away from completion. 

That project continues to disappoint me.  It's ridiculous how far out of town they are building it and how much existing freeway or upgradeable four lane it is bypassing.  The money and time wasted could've been used elsewhere in the corridor.  I don't get it.  Far, far more practical to have upgraded the existing bypass on the north side of Union City, then gone new-terrain where it curves south to meet the bypass they are actually building.  I posted a map somewhere in this thread once.

Ending my rant, they'll probably sign it from I-155 north to where the freeway ends just short of Kentucky.
From there, I bet it's another decade at least of an I-69 Breezewood in South Fulton.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on October 31, 2019, 09:17:51 PM
Quote from: X99 on October 31, 2019, 12:36:40 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on October 31, 2019, 11:59:23 AM
Quote from: X99 on October 30, 2019, 12:20:11 PM
Quote from: seicer on October 30, 2019, 10:21:58 AM
Is I-69 signed north of Memphis anywhere? There is a segment of US 51 on Google Maps that shows up with I-69 shields.
Oh yeah, I remember seeing that. I-69 is signed on the segment of US 51 at the TN-183 interchange, BETWEEN the ramp sets, and nowhere else in the area. At the zoom level where only Interstates and in-development Interstate corridors (like US 70/I-42) show up, the segment is so small it doesn't exist.

I just looked at that section on Google Maps and could not find the I-69 signs.
Exact location (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.2616481,-89.2137878,16.2z)

There may be some there today, but on my Google Maps view which is from 2016, there are no I-69 shields along the road here or for the exits.  Today Google says "I-69" on the road script, just like they have the shields on the maps for only the road between the ramps. But in 2016, there were no roadside signs with the I-69 shield.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: X99 on October 31, 2019, 09:27:27 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on October 31, 2019, 09:17:51 PM
Quote from: X99 on October 31, 2019, 12:36:40 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on October 31, 2019, 11:59:23 AM
Quote from: X99 on October 30, 2019, 12:20:11 PM
Quote from: seicer on October 30, 2019, 10:21:58 AM
Is I-69 signed north of Memphis anywhere? There is a segment of US 51 on Google Maps that shows up with I-69 shields.
Oh yeah, I remember seeing that. I-69 is signed on the segment of US 51 at the TN-183 interchange, BETWEEN the ramp sets, and nowhere else in the area. At the zoom level where only Interstates and in-development Interstate corridors (like US 70/I-42) show up, the segment is so small it doesn't exist.

I just looked at that section on Google Maps and could not find the I-69 signs.
Exact location (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.2616481,-89.2137878,16.2z)

There may be some there today, but on my Google Maps view which is from 2016, there are no I-69 shields along the road here or for the exits.  Today Google says "I-69" on the road script, just like they have the shields on the maps for only the road between the ramps. But in 2016, there were no roadside signs with the I-69 shield.
Sorry, I worded it wrong. The I-69 shields are not present in real life, but the segment in Google Maps is labeled as I-69.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on October 31, 2019, 11:49:56 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on October 31, 2019, 09:17:51 PM
Quote from: X99 on October 31, 2019, 12:36:40 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on October 31, 2019, 11:59:23 AM
Quote from: X99 on October 30, 2019, 12:20:11 PM
Quote from: seicer on October 30, 2019, 10:21:58 AM
Is I-69 signed north of Memphis anywhere? There is a segment of US 51 on Google Maps that shows up with I-69 shields.
Oh yeah, I remember seeing that. I-69 is signed on the segment of US 51 at the TN-183 interchange, BETWEEN the ramp sets, and nowhere else in the area. At the zoom level where only Interstates and in-development Interstate corridors (like US 70/I-42) show up, the segment is so small it doesn't exist.

The only portion of I-69 that has been officially approved by the FHWA and AASHTO for signing in TN is along I-55, I-240, and I-40 from the the MS state line to the I-40/TN-300 interchange, but TDOT has not yet erected I-69 signage along this section (even through the approval for signing occurred back in 2009).  Not sure how TDOT will handle the designations on the Troy and Union City bypasses when they open. Logically, they would simply sign them as I-69, and continue the I-69 designation along the US-51 freeway from Troy to the current end of I-155 outside of Dyersburg.

I just looked at that section on Google Maps and could not find the I-69 signs.
Exact location (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.2616481,-89.2137878,16.2z)

There may be some there today, but on my Google Maps view which is from 2016, there are no I-69 shields along the road here or for the exits.  Today Google says "I-69" on the road script, just like they have the shields on the maps for only the road between the ramps. But in 2016, there were no roadside signs with the I-69 shield.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: royo6022 on November 01, 2019, 12:39:46 AM
Well it seems I have come to this thread a little late.... I've been so caught up in doing research on I 69 in Indiana and Kentucky that I just now have moved into my research of the Tennessee portion. And I have to say, it seems like they have really turned this whole project into a pain in the butt for everyone.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on November 11, 2019, 06:46:35 AM
Quote from: TNObion on October 22, 2019, 09:13:22 PM
Thanks for the welcome guys. It is good to finally see progress being made after the project being stalled for, well, years. Now our infamous "road to nowhere" can soon be completed (at least locally) and hopefully help put this area on the map, so to speak.

Construction is now being done in pretty much my backyard, so if anyone had interests or wants to see progress I will be happy to post more pictures, if you have a specific area feel free to ask.  The landscape here has changed quite a lot in the past couple of months, looking forward to seeing this completed!

If you are taking requests, would mind getting cureent photos of the section from US 51 on the South side of Union City to TN 22?  The photos on Google Earth at the future I-69 interchange are from October of 2016, the location of the bridge carrying TN 184 over the freeway predates construction (2012).   I posted a drone video I found a while back, but it was from the fall of 2017 IIRC...
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: TNObion on December 03, 2019, 09:03:32 PM
I was actually through that part of town today, and snapped a couple of pics. Construction has slowed up a bit due to wet weather, but still coming along compared to what we have been used to...

https://imgur.com/YRIgpZT

(south toward troy on 51)

https://imgur.com/P9xceKl

(northbound on 51)

https://imgur.com/3rx5w2L

(west main at Hwy 22)

https://imgur.com/q5tQiSd

(At 22 intersection)





Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on December 05, 2019, 01:27:58 PM
Quote from: TNObion on December 03, 2019, 09:03:32 PM
I was actually through that part of town today, and snapped a couple of pics. Construction has slowed up a bit due to wet weather, but still coming along compared to what we have been used to...

https://imgur.com/YRIgpZT

(south toward troy on 51)

https://imgur.com/P9xceKl

(northbound on 51)

https://imgur.com/3rx5w2L

(west main at Hwy 22)

https://imgur.com/q5tQiSd

(At 22 intersection)

Thanks!  So the portion on the South end of Union City appears to be completed except for paving and signing, correct?

So the section South of Union
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sprjus4 on February 21, 2020, 08:50:26 PM
New Street View imagery of construction in the Union City area as of August 2019.

I-69 / US-51 southern junction - https://www.google.com/maps/@36.3953275,-89.0961041,3a,75y,57.18h,76.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szt4e9GFbvUevrw4kmzc8vA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1
I-69 / TN-184 junction - https://www.google.com/maps/@36.4166187,-89.0832617,3a,49y,281.44h,84.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5geRe0Wh_Jwj6Th14drAvA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1
I-69 / US-51 northern junction - https://www.google.com/maps/@36.4651452,-88.9770518,3a,49.8y,265.66h,87.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjrNNX_d84Dtu7MqzVoO3ow!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Great Lakes Roads on February 22, 2020, 03:19:20 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on February 21, 2020, 08:50:26 PM
New Street View imagery of construction in the Union City area as of August 2019.

I-69 / US-51 southern junction - https://www.google.com/maps/@36.3953275,-89.0961041,3a,75y,57.18h,76.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szt4e9GFbvUevrw4kmzc8vA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1
I-69 / TN-184 junction - https://www.google.com/maps/@36.4166187,-89.0832617,3a,49y,281.44h,84.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5geRe0Wh_Jwj6Th14drAvA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1
I-69 / US-51 northern junction - https://www.google.com/maps/@36.4651452,-88.9770518,3a,49.8y,265.66h,87.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjrNNX_d84Dtu7MqzVoO3ow!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1

Future interchange with TN 21:
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.4720913,-89.0384437,3a,15y,183.77h,91.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shdsGtTJYDCc4eHG7jQc5SQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1

ROW clearing west of Bethlehem Rd:
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.4664666,-89.0218455,3a,75y,285.56h,92.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ss79JpquHyCFJW-VWW5E6ng!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on February 23, 2020, 12:09:41 AM
Section Line Road where I-69 will cross over north of Union City.

Here is the centerline GPS marker.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49572621262_77c2490a21_z.jpg)

Across the road (looking east) the farmer did not plant any corn anticipating it would be used.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49571885473_34bff9c203_z.jpg)
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on February 23, 2020, 12:33:05 AM
Looking west from Claude Tucker Road.

Farmer did not plant on the ROW this year anticipating the start of excavation.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49572696922_12667e05e9_z.jpg)
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: aboges26 on February 25, 2020, 10:11:15 AM
Did the farmers not plant anything because it is not their land anymore and the DOT has bought it already?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on February 26, 2020, 10:26:55 PM
Quote from: aboges26 on February 25, 2020, 10:11:15 AM
Did the farmers not plant anything because it is not their land anymore and the DOT has bought it already?

Depends on the DOT involved.

Most states will allow farming to continue on ROW's they have acquired but not funded for construction.

As for the corn farmer, he allowed space for surveyors, soil samplers and excavation trailers to come in, thinking his corn would harvest before they turned over the dirt.

As for the guy across the road, he simply let it go fallow. He didn't want to finance a planting with the risk of losing some of it.

Most DOT's will give the farmer a notice of when they plan to begin excavation so they can plan their planting seasons.

In some other states, DOT's strictly control what happens on those ROW's even when construction is not funded. I have seen some ROW's sit fallow and untouched for 40+ years.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: AcE_Wolf_287 on March 22, 2020, 10:38:35 PM
I'm Confused where I-69 is going to go north of I-40 and its Current segment in Memphis, it ends at US 51 but it either goes through a Airport, Big Warehouse, or through a neighborhood unless they upgrade US 51 (which won't work)
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on March 23, 2020, 03:26:44 AM
Quote from: AcE_Wolf_287 on March 22, 2020, 10:38:35 PM
I'm Confused where I-69 is going to go north of I-40 and its Current segment in Memphis, it ends at US 51 but it either goes through a Airport, Big Warehouse, or through a neighborhood unless they upgrade US 51 (which won't work)

Existing plans call for I-69 to use the TN 300 "stub" extending NW from I-40 to US 51, cross US 51 and immediately turn north to parallel that highway northward.  Local posters should know whether any ROW has actually been reserved or acquired at least as far north as TN 385 (future I-269).  IIRC, from that point north to Dyersburg the actual I-69 alignment has yet to be identified. 
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: AcE_Wolf_287 on March 23, 2020, 10:57:42 AM
Quote from: sparker on March 23, 2020, 03:26:44 AM
Quote from: AcE_Wolf_287 on March 22, 2020, 10:38:35 PM
I'm Confused where I-69 is going to go north of I-40 and its Current segment in Memphis, it ends at US 51 but it either goes through a Airport, Big Warehouse, or through a neighborhood unless they upgrade US 51 (which won't work)

Existing plans call for I-69 to use the TN 300 "stub" extending NW from I-40 to US 51, cross US 51 and immediately turn north to parallel that highway northward.  Local posters should know whether any ROW has actually been reserved or acquired at least as far north as TN 385 (future I-269).  IIRC, from that point north to Dyersburg the actual I-69 alignment has yet to be identified.

i-69 is already in TN but its unsigned currently, i've seen maps where its along US 51, and i've seen some go through the airport and that Warehouse
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on March 23, 2020, 11:38:05 AM
Quote from: sparker on March 23, 2020, 03:26:44 AM
Quote from: AcE_Wolf_287 on March 22, 2020, 10:38:35 PM
I'm Confused where I-69 is going to go north of I-40 and its Current segment in Memphis, it ends at US 51 but it either goes through a Airport, Big Warehouse, or through a neighborhood unless they upgrade US 51 (which won't work)

Existing plans call for I-69 to use the TN 300 "stub" extending NW from I-40 to US 51, cross US 51 and immediately turn north to parallel that highway northward.  Local posters should know whether any ROW has actually been reserved or acquired at least as far north as TN 385 (future I-269).  IIRC, from that point north to Dyersburg the actual I-69 alignment has yet to be identified.

The route has been identified.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49690140383_1f4bc9e60d_z.jpg)

The exits have all been designed and TDOT is awaiting funding.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on March 24, 2020, 12:11:39 AM
Quote from: edwaleni on March 23, 2020, 11:38:05 AM
Quote from: sparker on March 23, 2020, 03:26:44 AM
Quote from: AcE_Wolf_287 on March 22, 2020, 10:38:35 PM
I'm Confused where I-69 is going to go north of I-40 and its Current segment in Memphis, it ends at US 51 but it either goes through a Airport, Big Warehouse, or through a neighborhood unless they upgrade US 51 (which won't work)

Existing plans call for I-69 to use the TN 300 "stub" extending NW from I-40 to US 51, cross US 51 and immediately turn north to parallel that highway northward.  Local posters should know whether any ROW has actually been reserved or acquired at least as far north as TN 385 (future I-269).  IIRC, from that point north to Dyersburg the actual I-69 alignment has yet to be identified.

The route has been identified.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49690140383_1f4bc9e60d_z.jpg)

The exits have all been designed and TDOT is awaiting funding.

Which itself has not been identified.  I take it the "red" route paralleling US 51 to the west is the adopted route; let's hope these plans won't simply sit on a shelf for the next 40 years!
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on March 24, 2020, 10:24:10 AM
https://www.tn.gov/tdot/projects/region-4/interstate-69-corridor.html (https://www.tn.gov/tdot/projects/region-4/interstate-69-corridor.html)
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: MikeTheActuary on March 24, 2020, 11:20:51 AM
Quote from: AcE_Wolf_287 on March 23, 2020, 10:57:42 AM
Quote from: sparker on March 23, 2020, 03:26:44 AM
Quote from: AcE_Wolf_287 on March 22, 2020, 10:38:35 PM
I'm Confused where I-69 is going to go north of I-40 and its Current segment in Memphis, it ends at US 51 but it either goes through a Airport, Big Warehouse, or through a neighborhood unless they upgrade US 51 (which won't work)

Existing plans call for I-69 to use the TN 300 "stub" extending NW from I-40 to US 51, cross US 51 and immediately turn north to parallel that highway northward.  Local posters should know whether any ROW has actually been reserved or acquired at least as far north as TN 385 (future I-269).  IIRC, from that point north to Dyersburg the actual I-69 alignment has yet to be identified.

i-69 is already in TN but its unsigned currently, i've seen maps where its along US 51, and i've seen some go through the airport and that Warehouse

According to TDOT, I-69 does NOT exist in TN.   They have approval to sign the portions in Memphis, but they will not act upon it until the designation actually becomes useful.  (I asked.)

In terms of the alignment, it's my understanding that north of TN-385 (future I-269) the alignment is pretty much known.  Between TN 300 and TN 385, I'm not certain just how firm the future alignment is.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on March 24, 2020, 11:37:17 AM
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on March 24, 2020, 11:20:51 AM
Quote from: AcE_Wolf_287 on March 23, 2020, 10:57:42 AM
Quote from: sparker on March 23, 2020, 03:26:44 AM
Quote from: AcE_Wolf_287 on March 22, 2020, 10:38:35 PM
I'm Confused where I-69 is going to go north of I-40 and its Current segment in Memphis, it ends at US 51 but it either goes through a Airport, Big Warehouse, or through a neighborhood unless they upgrade US 51 (which won't work)

Existing plans call for I-69 to use the TN 300 "stub" extending NW from I-40 to US 51, cross US 51 and immediately turn north to parallel that highway northward.  Local posters should know whether any ROW has actually been reserved or acquired at least as far north as TN 385 (future I-269).  IIRC, from that point north to Dyersburg the actual I-69 alignment has yet to be identified.

i-69 is already in TN but its unsigned currently, i've seen maps where its along US 51, and i've seen some go through the airport and that Warehouse

According to TDOT, I-69 does NOT exist in TN.   They have approval to sign the portions in Memphis, but they will not act upon it until the designation actually becomes useful.  (I asked.)

In terms of the alignment, it's my understanding that north of TN-385 (future I-269) the alignment is pretty much known.  Between TN 300 and TN 385, I'm not certain just how firm the future alignment is.

From what I've seen, a Draft EIS was published some years ago for the Millington-Dyersburg segment (SIU-8).  TDOT has been working to finish the Final EIS and get a ROD from the FHWA for the Dyersburg-Millington segment, but that has been held up due to lack of funding (the FHWA won't approve a Final EIS and issue a ROD until the state shows that funding has been secured for the project).  Aside from the Dyersburg-Fulton segment (SIU 7) that's already under construction, Tennessee has publicly stated that it will halt progress on the Dyersburg-Millington (SIU 8) and Millington to TN-300 (last part of SIU 9) sections until Congress commits funding for each. From what I recall, there are some ongoing issues about environmental remediation that needs to take place (and a lot of finger-pointing as to who's on the hook for that) along the proposed alignment between TN-300 and Millington before any construction can begin. Expect I-69 to be a giant cul-de-sac at Dyersburg for the foreseeable future.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on March 24, 2020, 03:39:05 PM
Quote from: abqtraveler on March 24, 2020, 11:37:17 AM
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on March 24, 2020, 11:20:51 AM
Quote from: AcE_Wolf_287 on March 23, 2020, 10:57:42 AM
Quote from: sparker on March 23, 2020, 03:26:44 AM
Quote from: AcE_Wolf_287 on March 22, 2020, 10:38:35 PM
I'm Confused where I-69 is going to go north of I-40 and its Current segment in Memphis, it ends at US 51 but it either goes through a Airport, Big Warehouse, or through a neighborhood unless they upgrade US 51 (which won't work)

Existing plans call for I-69 to use the TN 300 "stub" extending NW from I-40 to US 51, cross US 51 and immediately turn north to parallel that highway northward.  Local posters should know whether any ROW has actually been reserved or acquired at least as far north as TN 385 (future I-269).  IIRC, from that point north to Dyersburg the actual I-69 alignment has yet to be identified.

i-69 is already in TN but its unsigned currently, i've seen maps where its along US 51, and i've seen some go through the airport and that Warehouse

According to TDOT, I-69 does NOT exist in TN.   They have approval to sign the portions in Memphis, but they will not act upon it until the designation actually becomes useful.  (I asked.)

In terms of the alignment, it's my understanding that north of TN-385 (future I-269) the alignment is pretty much known.  Between TN 300 and TN 385, I'm not certain just how firm the future alignment is.

From what I've seen, a Draft EIS was published some years ago for the Millington-Dyersburg segment (SIU-8).  TDOT has been working to finish the Final EIS and get a ROD from the FHWA for the Dyersburg-Millington segment, but that has been held up due to lack of funding (the FHWA won't approve a Final EIS and issue a ROD until the state shows that funding has been secured for the project).  Aside from the Dyersburg-Fulton segment (SIU 7) that's already under construction, Tennessee has publicly stated that it will halt progress on the Dyersburg-Millington (SIU 8) and Millington to TN-300 (last part of SIU 9) sections until Congress commits funding for each. From what I recall, there are some ongoing issues about environmental remediation that needs to take place (and a lot of finger-pointing as to who's on the hook for that) along the proposed alignment between TN-300 and Millington before any construction can begin. Expect I-69 to be a giant cul-de-sac at Dyersburg for the foreseeable future.

I'm left to wonder if there are shelved plans for an alternate I-69 Memphis-Dyersburg alignment farther east away from the wetlands -- perhaps something extending from the NE corner of the I-269/TN 385 loop and paralleling TN 14 up to US 412 before using that route to get to US 51.  While that would, for all intents & purposes, divert I-69 away from central Memphis, it might go far to resolve issues along the existing planned corridor by simply circumventing them.  Seeing as how a new-terrain facility is being planned regardless of alignment, an eastern option might actually be fiscally expedient.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on March 24, 2020, 05:09:50 PM
At the moment there is one alternative routing and that is O4F, where it will traverse Ripley, TN on the east instead of the west to avoid a refuge.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49695619242_2cd0f07a44_z.jpg)
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on March 25, 2020, 03:54:21 AM
Quote from: edwaleni on March 24, 2020, 05:09:50 PM
At the moment there is one alternative routing and that is O4F, where it will traverse Ripley, TN on the east instead of the west to avoid a refuge.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49695619242_2cd0f07a44_z.jpg)

Regardless of the presence of that one Ripley exception to the "red line" route, the entire SIU seems to exist as a "can" that gets kicked down the road at every juncture.  With a planned corridor that essentially hugs US 51 on, depending upon whether the option above is exercised, either side without venturing too far from the existing US 51 alignment, it appears that the string of towns from Memphis north to I-155 wants to have their cake and eat it too -- they want a reasonably close-in routing to effectively retain as much as possible of the roadside business existing along the present highway -- but just far enough away so as not to cut a swath through the towns' residential districts.  Of course, this is what most towns in their situation would prefer -- and a routing well to the east of US 51 certainly wouldn't come close to satisfying that option's prerogatives.  I've driven US 51 several times over the last 30 years, and the one thing that characterizes the nature of that particular beast is endless swampland, bayous, creekbeds, and other natural features that tend to confound planners.   But politics demand that the towns not be excluded from plans; I-69 needs to be a local server as well as a developmental location rather than simply a long-distance corridor.  While a more "dry land" option farther east might yield a more efficient corridor and/or simpler construction -- it is one whose primary interest is long-distance travel with limited local serviceability.   Hence the continued focus on those corridor concepts adjacent to the existing route; while ostensibly more costly in terms of construction and continued maintenance, it functions as both a long-distance and local server. 
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on March 25, 2020, 02:38:52 PM
FWIW: They used to have the same kind of grid layout for SIU 9, but TDOT has removed the entire library from their site.

I did see a copy of it once upon a time and I think there was 1 section that was getting people riled up.

But the SIU 8 layout for the turn at Millington has no accommodation for a future SIU 9 coming up from the south. no bridges, no ghost ramping.

Makes me wonder if SIU 9 will ever happen.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on March 25, 2020, 05:17:25 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on March 25, 2020, 02:38:52 PM
FWIW: They used to have the same kind of grid layout for SIU 9, but TDOT has removed the entire library from their site.

I did see a copy of it once upon a time and I think there was 1 section that was getting people riled up.

But the SIU 8 layout for the turn at Millington has no accommodation for a future SIU 9 coming up from the south. no bridges, no ghost ramping.

Makes me wonder if SIU 9 will ever happen.

I noticed that as well. The big fight over that 9-mile stretch between TN-300 and US-51 at I-269 is a section of the highway will go right through a superfund site. If there was a section of I-69 that gets killed in TN, I would put my money on that segment, since no one wants to pay the bill for the environmental cleanup that has to happen before construction can begin.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on March 25, 2020, 05:31:25 PM
Quote from: abqtraveler on March 25, 2020, 05:17:25 PM
FWIW: They used to have the same kind of grid layout for SIU 9, but TDOT has removed the entire library from their site.

I did see a copy of it once upon a time and I think there was 1 section that was getting people riled up.

But the SIU 8 layout for the turn at Millington has no accommodation for a future SIU 9 coming up from the south. no bridges, no ghost ramping.

Makes me wonder if SIU 9 will ever happen.


I noticed that as well. The big fight over that 9-mile stretch between TN-300 and US-51 at I-269 is a section of the highway will go right through a superfund site. If there was a section of I-69 that gets killed in TN, I would put my money on that segment, since no one wants to pay the bill for the environmental cleanup that has to happen before construction can begin.

I checked the EPA and there is no Superfund site listed in this area. Was there a name for it?

Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: vdeane on March 25, 2020, 08:27:02 PM
If SIU 9 were cancelled, where would I-69 go?  I-269 seems like way out of the way to divert it.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: ilpt4u on March 25, 2020, 09:13:44 PM
Quote from: vdeane on March 25, 2020, 08:27:02 PM
If SIU 9 were cancelled, where would I-69 go?  I-269 seems like way out of the way to divert it.
Could run it over the Mississippi on current TN/MO I-155 and Multiplex with I-55 to Memphis. Dyersburg-Milington could then be part of an oddly shaped, extended I-269
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on March 25, 2020, 10:19:13 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on March 25, 2020, 09:13:44 PM
Quote from: vdeane on March 25, 2020, 08:27:02 PM
If SIU 9 were cancelled, where would I-69 go?  I-269 seems like way out of the way to divert it.
Could run it over the Mississippi on current TN/MO I-155 and Multiplex with I-55 to Memphis. Dyersburg-Milington could then be part of an oddly shaped, extended I-269

Now that segment would be a likely candidate for moving east -- a N-S connector between I-40 and TN 385 (I-269) somewhere in the vicinity of TN 204 and/or TN 14.  Essentially gives the towns north of Millington the close-in freeway access they want, and puts the corridor well away from the problem zone.  And since the maps published with the plans (see red line in previous posts) shows the selected I-69 route segueing right onto TN 385, such a routing option might be at least possible. 
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: chays on July 27, 2020, 08:46:36 PM
Is there a estimated time of completion for the Union City bypass? I saw some progress in some earlier photos from the west side, but the north side still was unstarted.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on July 28, 2020, 09:46:39 AM
Quote from: chays on July 27, 2020, 08:46:36 PM
Is there a estimated time of completion for the Union City bypass? I saw some progress in some earlier photos from the west side, but the north side still was unstarted.

Construction began on the northern section of the Union City Bypass last year. There is a Google Street Map view along US-51 showing construction where I-69 will tie into the existing freeway north of Union City. Last I read, TDOT plans to open the Union City Bypass in 2022. No word on when contracts to build the two segments around Troy will be let.

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.4649778,-88.9773323,3a,75y,234.7h,80.26t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sYSp2w10jQxNWeXxaV_pm4w!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DYSp2w10jQxNWeXxaV_pm4w%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D115.65302%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on August 05, 2020, 01:06:59 PM
Quote from: abqtraveler on July 28, 2020, 09:46:39 AM
Quote from: chays on July 27, 2020, 08:46:36 PM
Is there a estimated time of completion for the Union City bypass? I saw some progress in some earlier photos from the west side, but the north side still was unstarted.

Construction began on the northern section of the Union City Bypass last year. There is a Google Street Map view along US-51 showing construction where I-69 will tie into the existing freeway north of Union City. Last I read, TDOT plans to open the Union City Bypass in 2022. No word on when contracts to build the two segments around Troy will be let.

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.4649778,-88.9773323,3a,75y,234.7h,80.26t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sYSp2w10jQxNWeXxaV_pm4w!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DYSp2w10jQxNWeXxaV_pm4w%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D115.65302%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

One other view of the construction, posted below, is from about a year ago as seen from Southbound TN 21 just North of the future interchange with I-69.  It is interesting to note that TN 21 is no longer showing as closed in Google maps traffic, which I hope means that a least the bridges over TN-21 are completed now.

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.472043,-89.0384222,3a,20.3y,194.55h,90.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sh86hRGdEJ-5IpCfDMd3tuQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: ThatRandomOshawott on August 13, 2020, 07:12:08 PM
I went through Union City on US 51 a little over a month ago. The overpass is in place for the US 51 interchange SW of Union City, and the ramps of the interchange have been paved.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Brooks on August 14, 2020, 12:44:31 AM
This project is moving at a snail's pace. Hardly any progress over the past few years. I'd bet my paycheck that TDOT is (at least slightly) doing this to spite West TN.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on August 14, 2020, 06:38:34 AM
Quote from: Brooks on August 14, 2020, 12:44:31 AM
This project is moving at a snail's pace. Hardly any progress over the past few years. I'd bet my paycheck that TDOT is (at least slightly) doing this to spite West TN.

Actually since construction only re-started in late 2017 after a 6 year hiatus, I think they are making good progress.

The Union City Bypass portion should be done next year and the Troy Bypass portion should be starting at the same time.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on August 14, 2020, 09:03:49 PM
Google Maps should update its Satellite Map of the Union City area. Construction of the Union City bypass seems to only go from just north of Allie Campbell Road to an electrical substation just north of Perry Browder Road west of TN 21. Has construction started or is construction underway south and/or east of these points?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on August 15, 2020, 07:28:15 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 14, 2020, 09:03:49 PM
Google Maps should update its Satellite Map of the Union City area. Construction of the Union City bypass seems to only go from just north of Allie Campbell Road to an electrical substation just north of Perry Browder Road west of TN 21. Has construction started or is construction underway south and/or east of these points?

Yes, a few posts up thread both Abqtraveler and myself have links to construction of the northern interchange with US 51 and the interchange with TN 21.  Further back in the thread are additional photos.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Stephane Dumas on August 15, 2020, 12:41:08 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 14, 2020, 09:03:49 PM
Google Maps should update its Satellite Map of the Union City area. Construction of the Union City bypass seems to only go from just north of Allie Campbell Road to an electrical substation just north of Perry Browder Road west of TN 21. Has construction started or is construction underway south and/or east of these points?

I founded by luck more recent satellite shots of Union City area.
https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=a33d0b6f-d851-4014-ba5b-e3415108560f&cp=36.434776~-89.046702&lvl=13&style=a&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027
https://satellites.pro/USA_map#36.443346,-89.033718,13
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: mgk920 on August 15, 2020, 01:03:23 PM
I'm kind of surprised that TDOT didn't upgrade and use the existing US 51 across the north side of Union City.  It just strikes me as being a duplicative waste.  Also, what are the current plans, if there are any, for tying the TN 22 freeway into this from the southeast?

Mike
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on August 17, 2020, 03:58:36 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on August 15, 2020, 01:03:23 PM
I'm kind of surprised that TDOT didn't upgrade and use the existing US 51 across the north side of Union City.  It just strikes me as being a duplicative waste.  Also, what are the current plans, if there are any, for tying the TN 22 freeway into this from the southeast?

Mike

The section of US-51 approaching Union city from the south is a commercial strip. The section from the Reelfoot Ave that goes around Union City probably has enough room to support and upgrade to interstate standards, but the real problem would be how to tie in a bypass of the commercial strip further south into the existing alignment. There aren't a whole lot of good options to construct an interchange to connect a new bypass to the existing road that loops around Union City, since there's quite a bit of development on either side of 51 along that loop.  Thus the decision was made to build I-69 on a new alignment further out to minimize impacts to the developed areas in and around Union City.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: mgk920 on August 17, 2020, 11:27:43 PM
Quote from: abqtraveler on August 17, 2020, 03:58:36 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on August 15, 2020, 01:03:23 PM
I'm kind of surprised that TDOT didn't upgrade and use the existing US 51 across the north side of Union City.  It just strikes me as being a duplicative waste.  Also, what are the current plans, if there are any, for tying the TN 22 freeway into this from the southeast?

Mike

The section of US-51 approaching Union city from the south is a commercial strip. The section from the Reelfoot Ave that goes around Union City probably has enough room to support and upgrade to interstate standards, but the real problem would be how to tie in a bypass of the commercial strip further south into the existing alignment. There aren't a whole lot of good options to construct an interchange to connect a new bypass to the existing road that loops around Union City, since there's quite a bit of development on either side of 51 along that loop.  Thus the decision was made to build I-69 on a new alignment further out to minimize impacts to the developed areas in and around Union City.

I wasn't concerned about the north-south section of US 51 on the west side of Union City, only the east-west part on the north side.  It looks to me like there was room for a crossover curve from the under construction north-south part of I-69 on the west side and the current east-west US 51 on the north side, along with space for an interchange to tie it in there with the north-south US 51 commercial strip and a few other area roadways on the west and northwest side.

Also, I was wondering how the TN 22 freeway southeast of Union City will ultimately tie into I-69 as it is now being built.

Mike
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on August 18, 2020, 01:51:01 PM
The TN 22 freeway is planned to become Interstate 169, but that is probably a good ways off. If it does become 169, I would terminate it at the interchange where US 45E becomes TN 43.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on August 18, 2020, 05:20:29 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 18, 2020, 01:51:01 PM
The TN 22 freeway is planned to become Interstate 169, but that is probably a good ways off. If it does become 169, I would terminate it at the interchange where US 45E becomes TN 43.

Heard rumors about that freeway upgrade around 15 years ago as access to UTM, but haven't heard any further peep about it for well over a decade.  I'd guess one would simply have to peruse the I-69/TN 22 interchange plans to determine if the proposal remains active; free-flowing, there's a chance of yes, but anything else (DDI, SPUI, even roundabout) would likely indicate otherwise.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sprjus4 on August 18, 2020, 05:25:32 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 18, 2020, 01:51:01 PM
The TN 22 freeway is planned to become Interstate 169, but that is probably a good ways off. If it does become 169, I would terminate it at the interchange where US 45E becomes TN 43.
Is the TN-22 freeway getting extended north to connect to the new I-69 alignment?

Otherwise, it wouldn't touch I-69.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Stephane Dumas on August 18, 2020, 06:06:07 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on August 18, 2020, 05:25:32 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 18, 2020, 01:51:01 PM
The TN 22 freeway is planned to become Interstate 169, but that is probably a good ways off. If it does become 169, I would terminate it at the interchange where US 45E becomes TN 43.
Is the TN-22 freeway getting extended north to connect to the new I-69 alignment?

Otherwise, it wouldn't touch I-69.

By checking the map, a gap of US-51 between TN-22 and I-69 is already freeway grade, I guess the cheapest option is reconfigurating to get TN-22 as the main throughfare.
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=36.45377,-88.98814&z=14&t=M
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on August 19, 2020, 07:43:26 AM
Quote from: Stephane Dumas on August 15, 2020, 12:41:08 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 14, 2020, 09:03:49 PM
Google Maps should update its Satellite Map of the Union City area. Construction of the Union City bypass seems to only go from just north of Allie Campbell Road to an electrical substation just north of Perry Browder Road west of TN 21. Has construction started or is construction underway south and/or east of these points?

I founded by luck more recent satellite shots of Union City area.
https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=a33d0b6f-d851-4014-ba5b-e3415108560f&cp=36.434776~-89.046702&lvl=13&style=a&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027
https://satellites.pro/USA_map#36.443346,-89.033718,13

The Bing image is a nice overhead shot of the construction on both the US 51 and TN 21 interchanges.  However the Satellites Pro image is not showing me any construction at all.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on August 19, 2020, 07:35:13 PM
Quote from: Stephane Dumas on August 18, 2020, 06:06:07 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on August 18, 2020, 05:25:32 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 18, 2020, 01:51:01 PM
The TN 22 freeway is planned to become Interstate 169, but that is probably a good ways off. If it does become 169, I would terminate it at the interchange where US 45E becomes TN 43.
Is the TN-22 freeway getting extended north to connect to the new I-69 alignment?

Otherwise, it wouldn't touch I-69.

By checking the map, a gap of US-51 between TN-22 and I-69 is already freeway grade, I guess the cheapest option is reconfigurating to get TN-22 as the main throughfare.
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=36.45377,-88.98814&z=14&t=M
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on August 19, 2020, 07:43:26 AM
Quote from: Stephane Dumas on August 15, 2020, 12:41:08 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 14, 2020, 09:03:49 PM
Google Maps should update its Satellite Map of the Union City area. Construction of the Union City bypass seems to only go from just north of Allie Campbell Road to an electrical substation just north of Perry Browder Road west of TN 21. Has construction started or is construction underway south and/or east of these points?

I founded by luck more recent satellite shots of Union City area.
https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=a33d0b6f-d851-4014-ba5b-e3415108560f&cp=36.434776~-89.046702&lvl=13&style=a&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027
https://satellites.pro/USA_map#36.443346,-89.033718,13

The Bing image is a nice overhead shot of the construction on both the US 51 and TN 21 interchanges.  However the Satellites Pro image is not showing me any construction at all.

Unless either (a) the TN 22 freeway is extended north to the new I-69 alignment or (b) the present interchange with US 51 is reconfigured as free-flow for WB22>NB51 and SB51>EB22, the concept of redesignation of TN 22 as an Interstate spur is right out the window.  And something tells me, with the slow pace of mainline I-69 development in the area, that such a TN 22 connection is well down the priority list at this time.   
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on August 19, 2020, 09:29:00 PM
Quote from: sparker on August 19, 2020, 07:35:13 PM
Quote from: Stephane Dumas on August 18, 2020, 06:06:07 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on August 18, 2020, 05:25:32 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 18, 2020, 01:51:01 PM
The TN 22 freeway is planned to become Interstate 169, but that is probably a good ways off. If it does become 169, I would terminate it at the interchange where US 45E becomes TN 43.
Is the TN-22 freeway getting extended north to connect to the new I-69 alignment?

Otherwise, it wouldn't touch I-69.

By checking the map, a gap of US-51 between TN-22 and I-69 is already freeway grade, I guess the cheapest option is reconfigurating to get TN-22 as the main throughfare.
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=36.45377,-88.98814&z=14&t=M
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on August 19, 2020, 07:43:26 AM
Quote from: Stephane Dumas on August 15, 2020, 12:41:08 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 14, 2020, 09:03:49 PM
Google Maps should update its Satellite Map of the Union City area. Construction of the Union City bypass seems to only go from just north of Allie Campbell Road to an electrical substation just north of Perry Browder Road west of TN 21. Has construction started or is construction underway south and/or east of these points?

I founded by luck more recent satellite shots of Union City area.
https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=a33d0b6f-d851-4014-ba5b-e3415108560f&cp=36.434776~-89.046702&lvl=13&style=a&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027
https://satellites.pro/USA_map#36.443346,-89.033718,13

The Bing image is a nice overhead shot of the construction on both the US 51 and TN 21 interchanges.  However the Satellites Pro image is not showing me any construction at all.

Unless either (a) the TN 22 freeway is extended north to the new I-69 alignment or (b) the present interchange with US 51 is reconfigured as free-flow for WB22>NB51 and SB51>EB22, the concept of redesignation of TN 22 as an Interstate spur is right out the window.  And something tells me, with the slow pace of mainline I-69 development in the area, that such a TN 22 connection is well down the priority list at this time.   

I would second that sentiment, but what TN-22 does have going for it is that, except for the connection to I-69, the rest of it is pretty much interstate grade between US-51 and Martin. I would predict the next priority for TDOT after the Troy and Union City bypasses are built is to work with Kentucky to reconfigure the US-51/Purchase Parkway interchange at the KY/TN state line.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: froggie on August 20, 2020, 11:33:50 PM
Quote from: abqtraveler on August 17, 2020, 03:58:36 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on August 15, 2020, 01:03:23 PM
I'm kind of surprised that TDOT didn't upgrade and use the existing US 51 across the north side of Union City.  It just strikes me as being a duplicative waste.  Also, what are the current plans, if there are any, for tying the TN 22 freeway into this from the southeast?

Mike

The section of US-51 approaching Union city from the south is a commercial strip. The section from the Reelfoot Ave that goes around Union City probably has enough room to support and upgrade to interstate standards, but the real problem would be how to tie in a bypass of the commercial strip further south into the existing alignment. There aren't a whole lot of good options to construct an interchange to connect a new bypass to the existing road that loops around Union City, since there's quite a bit of development on either side of 51 along that loop.  Thus the decision was made to build I-69 on a new alignment further out to minimize impacts to the developed areas in and around Union City.

There's at least one way (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=22731.msg2323184) they could have pulled it off.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on August 21, 2020, 06:45:06 AM
Quote from: froggie on August 20, 2020, 11:33:50 PM
Quote from: abqtraveler on August 17, 2020, 03:58:36 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on August 15, 2020, 01:03:23 PM
I'm kind of surprised that TDOT didn't upgrade and use the existing US 51 across the north side of Union City.  It just strikes me as being a duplicative waste.  Also, what are the current plans, if there are any, for tying the TN 22 freeway into this from the southeast?

Mike

The section of US-51 approaching Union city from the south is a commercial strip. The section from the Reelfoot Ave that goes around Union City probably has enough room to support and upgrade to interstate standards, but the real problem would be how to tie in a bypass of the commercial strip further south into the existing alignment. There aren't a whole lot of good options to construct an interchange to connect a new bypass to the existing road that loops around Union City, since there's quite a bit of development on either side of 51 along that loop.  Thus the decision was made to build I-69 on a new alignment further out to minimize impacts to the developed areas in and around Union City.

There's at least one way (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=22731.msg2323184) they could have pulled it off.

Wild guess -- local politics interfered with any notion of upgrading the original US 51 bypass (access and/or relocation issues), so the "outer arc" alignment that eventually prevailed came into being.  Too bad something like Adam's concept didn't make the cut; the I-69/TN 22 interchange as illustrated certainly would lend itself to potential Interstate status for the latter freeway -- not that the presently functional facility would benefit significantly by such a designation change.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on August 23, 2020, 03:54:58 PM
Quote from: sparker on August 21, 2020, 06:45:06 AM
Quote from: froggie on August 20, 2020, 11:33:50 PM
Quote from: abqtraveler on August 17, 2020, 03:58:36 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on August 15, 2020, 01:03:23 PM
I'm kind of surprised that TDOT didn't upgrade and use the existing US 51 across the north side of Union City.  It just strikes me as being a duplicative waste.  Also, what are the current plans, if there are any, for tying the TN 22 freeway into this from the southeast?

Mike

The section of US-51 approaching Union city from the south is a commercial strip. The section from the Reelfoot Ave that goes around Union City probably has enough room to support and upgrade to interstate standards, but the real problem would be how to tie in a bypass of the commercial strip further south into the existing alignment. There aren't a whole lot of good options to construct an interchange to connect a new bypass to the existing road that loops around Union City, since there's quite a bit of development on either side of 51 along that loop.  Thus the decision was made to build I-69 on a new alignment further out to minimize impacts to the developed areas in and around Union City.

There's at least one way (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=22731.msg2323184) they could have pulled it off.

Wild guess -- local politics interfered with any notion of upgrading the original US 51 bypass (access and/or relocation issues), so the "outer arc" alignment that eventually prevailed came into being.  Too bad something like Adam's concept didn't make the cut; the I-69/TN 22 interchange as illustrated certainly would lend itself to potential Interstate status for the latter freeway -- not that the presently functional facility would benefit significantly by such a designation change.

Seems no one can find the original environmental studies for why they bypassed Union City completely, but from what I can recall from discussion many moons ago it had a lot to do with US-51 being a large local traffic manager.  Local hearings did not want the changes at Reelfoot Ave.  Workers who commute to the Titan plant north of town were highly resistant to 2-3 years of construction to reach work. The new Discovery Park is supposed to bring in hotel/restaurant/truck stop development along US-51 back to the future TN-22/Main Street exit. (2 hotels have already been built in fact)
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: seicer on August 23, 2020, 09:28:51 PM
As far back as 2001, the alignment had been selected:

(https://i.imgur.com/nCxO9Xw.png)
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: triplemultiplex on September 03, 2020, 09:43:50 PM
Another trip through Union City for me and another look at the glacial pace of I-69 construction.
Since TNDOT has such crap info about this project on their website, I was surprised to see they appear to be building a huge semi-directional Y interchange where the Union City bypass returns to the existing US 51 freeway north of town.

It makes me facepalm even harder at the expense they are going through to do this new terrain segment.  Especially when the existing highway east of the curve by the tire plant would upgrade so easily.  It's like they are trying to make this take as long as possible while still technically progressing and part of that process was selecting this enormously expensive, entirely new terrain alignment.

I may be beating a dead horse, but it didn't have to be this way.  If they did something like Froggie or I proposed, at least some part of it would be open to traffic by now instead of construction entering its second decade with no benefit yet for the traveling public.

Froggie:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/959/26940321857_b01cd18186_c_d.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ajfroggie/26940321857)

me:
(https://triplemultiplex.files.wordpress.com/2020/09/uc-alt.jpg)
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: mgk920 on September 05, 2020, 04:36:27 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on September 03, 2020, 09:43:50 PM
Another trip through Union City for me and another look at the glacial pace of I-69 construction.
Since TNDOT has such crap info about this project on their website, I was surprised to see they appear to be building a huge semi-directional Y interchange where the Union City bypass returns to the existing US 51 freeway north of town.

It makes me facepalm even harder at the expense they are going through to do this new terrain segment.  Especially when the existing highway east of the curve by the tire plant would upgrade so easily.  It's like they are trying to make this take as long as possible while still technically progressing and part of that process was selecting this enormously expensive, entirely new terrain alignment.

I may be beating a dead horse, but it didn't have to be this way.  If they did something like Froggie or I proposed, at least some part of it would be open to traffic by now instead of construction entering its second decade with no benefit yet for the traveling public.

Froggie:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/959/26940321857_b01cd18186_c_d.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ajfroggie/26940321857)

me:
(https://triplemultiplex.files.wordpress.com/2020/09/uc-alt.jpg)

Yea, the second one is very much what I was thinking about in my reply from a couple of weeks ago.  The 'KISS' principal at work.

<sigh>   :rolleyes:

Mike
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on September 05, 2020, 05:56:52 PM
For better or worse, the outer arc as profiled in the aerial photos is the one that will be built; everything else is "coulda/woulda" that might have occurred had it not been for TDOT planners and, likely, promises made to Union City and the politicos representing the area.  I'll bet the old bypass gets zoned for commercial development rather quickly, including, at least on the west side where it's visible from the new bypass, some enterprises catering to I-69 traffic.  What may not be immediately apparent is the fact that Union City is only a few miles from Fulton, where the CN rail lines converge/diverge; 2 lines north to Illinois and/or St. Louis, south to Memphis, and southeast to Birmingham.  With the advent of a largely completed I-69, the region could be marketed as an efficient distribution hub, provided there's readily available and accessible properties to place warehousing facilities.  The original US 51 Union City bypass would be a very appropriate place to locate for this purpose -- a couple of blocks from I-69, close enough to the CN main line that short spurs serving those sites could easily be built (it's pretty damn flat around there!).  Wouldn't be surprised if those considerations were embedded in the decision to construct a new-terrain outer arc around the town. 
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on January 30, 2021, 12:18:33 PM
FYI the construction of I-69 North of Union City, is now showing on Apple Maps.  Google Maps still doesn't show it.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on January 31, 2021, 08:07:49 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on January 30, 2021, 12:18:33 PM
FYI the construction of I-69 North of Union City, is now showing on Apple Maps.  Google Maps still doesn't show it.

Apparently accessing Apple Maps requires an Apple device, which I do not have. When I try accessing Apple Maps from my Windows 10 computer, I get stuck on their main page. The "Open Maps" link sends me right back to their main page, so my conclusion is Apple Maps is not designed to work with non-Apple devices.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on January 31, 2021, 10:14:16 PM
Quote from: abqtraveler on January 31, 2021, 08:07:49 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on January 30, 2021, 12:18:33 PM
FYI the construction of I-69 North of Union City, is now showing on Apple Maps.  Google Maps still doesn't show it.

Apparently accessing Apple Maps requires an Apple device, which I do not have. When I try accessing Apple Maps from my Windows 10 computer, I get stuck on their main page. The "Open Maps" link sends me right back to their main page, so my conclusion is Apple Maps is not designed to work with non-Apple devices.

Apple is into Apple unless it is iTunes. It's their only admission there are OS'es besides their own.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on February 01, 2021, 03:49:19 PM
Quote from: abqtraveler on January 31, 2021, 08:07:49 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on January 30, 2021, 12:18:33 PM
FYI the construction of I-69 North of Union City, is now showing on Apple Maps.  Google Maps still doesn't show it.

Apparently accessing Apple Maps requires an Apple device, which I do not have. When I try accessing Apple Maps from my Windows 10 computer, I get stuck on their main page. The "Open Maps" link sends me right back to their main page, so my conclusion is Apple Maps is not designed to work with non-Apple devices.

Try Bing Maps. I've found their aerial views to be more recent than Google's satellite imagery. It's possible Apple and Bing use the same vendors.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on February 01, 2021, 04:13:56 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 01, 2021, 03:49:19 PM
Quote from: abqtraveler on January 31, 2021, 08:07:49 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on January 30, 2021, 12:18:33 PM
FYI the construction of I-69 North of Union City, is now showing on Apple Maps.  Google Maps still doesn't show it.

Apparently accessing Apple Maps requires an Apple device, which I do not have. When I try accessing Apple Maps from my Windows 10 computer, I get stuck on their main page. The "Open Maps" link sends me right back to their main page, so my conclusion is Apple Maps is not designed to work with non-Apple devices.

Try Bing Maps. I've found their aerial views to be more recent than Google's satellite imagery. It's possible Apple and Bing use the same vendors.

I see that Bing Maps shows construction on the northernmost leg of I-69 around Union City, and it also shows the nearly-completed bypass of Kramer Junction in California. Bing does not show construction of the I-49 bypass around Bella Vista, Arkansas or the Kickapoo Turnpike in Oklahoma, both of which appear under construction in Google Maps. I think it's really a matter of when each company gets updated imagery of a given location.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Bobby5280 on February 01, 2021, 04:42:45 PM
There are many examples between Google Earth/Maps, Bing Maps and Apple Maps where one will have newer satellite imagery than others or have older imagery. None of them are universally better than the others.

Still, I think it's really odd that Google has such outdated imagery on CA-58 in the Hinkley and Kramer Junction areas. They have Street View imagery of the Hinkley Bypass, but no overhead imagery. Apple Maps shows it complete and the Kramer Junction bypass close to completion. I can understand some areas having a higher priority to update, but we're talking about a significant change to the roadway in that area. That would at least warrant an update of 5+ year old imagery.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on February 01, 2021, 10:50:42 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on February 01, 2021, 04:42:45 PM
There are many examples between Google Earth/Maps, Bing Maps and Apple Maps where one will have newer satellite imagery than others or have older imagery. None of them are universally better than the others.

Still, I think it's really odd that Google has such outdated imagery on CA-58 in the Hinkley and Kramer Junction areas. They have Street View imagery of the Hinkley Bypass, but no overhead imagery. Apple Maps shows it complete and the Kramer Junction bypass close to completion. I can understand some areas having a higher priority to update, but we're talking about a significant change to the roadway in that area. That would at least warrant an update of 5+ year old imagery.

As I noted elsewhere, Google is taking a more passive approach to updating their maps.

There are still wide swaths of the US that hasn't had an imagery update in over 12 years. In most cases it was a single car "just passing through".

That said, Google usually waits until a large number of Android phones start appearing at GPS coordinates that don't match with their known road database. If and only if they have an approved Google image contractor available, they will send a car out to image the highway.

I can get better imagery of places in rural Africa now than in much of the US. I can get imagery all the way to Kona Point on a barely driveable dirt path on Oahu, but several reasonably populated cities can't get much more than a 12 year old pass through on Main Street.

It's one of those things that infuriate locals.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Bobby5280 on February 02, 2021, 01:40:21 PM
From what I've been seeing lately Google seems to update its on-ground Street View imagery more often than it does the overhead satellite imagery. Its Street View imagery along CA-58 is far more current than the badly out of date satellite imagery. Heck, even where I live the satellite imagery is badly out of date (2015) compared to much newer Street View imagery.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on February 03, 2021, 10:34:45 AM
Quote from: abqtraveler on February 01, 2021, 04:13:56 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 01, 2021, 03:49:19 PM
Quote from: abqtraveler on January 31, 2021, 08:07:49 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on January 30, 2021, 12:18:33 PM
FYI the construction of I-69 North of Union City, is now showing on Apple Maps.  Google Maps still doesn't show it.

Apparently accessing Apple Maps requires an Apple device, which I do not have. When I try accessing Apple Maps from my Windows 10 computer, I get stuck on their main page. The "Open Maps" link sends me right back to their main page, so my conclusion is Apple Maps is not designed to work with non-Apple devices.

Try Bing Maps. I've found their aerial views to be more recent than Google's satellite imagery. It's possible Apple and Bing use the same vendors.

I see that Bing Maps shows construction on the northernmost leg of I-69 around Union City, and it also shows the nearly-completed bypass of Kramer Junction in California. Bing does not show construction of the I-49 bypass around Bella Vista, Arkansas or the Kickapoo Turnpike in Oklahoma, both of which appear under construction in Google Maps. I think it's really a matter of when each company gets updated imagery of a given location.

That I-49 construction is new, it wasn't on Google Maps last time I checked a few weeks ago...  (Off to the I-49 Arkansas thread).
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Henry on February 03, 2021, 10:48:25 AM
Well, with the KY sections getting upgraded as they connect to the newer parts across the border, we'll just need the Ohio River bridges and the unfinished sections south to Memphis to be built for a continuous high-speed drive to Indianapolis. (At least INDOT is finally building the 27 miles from Martinsville to Indy at the same time, which is certainly welcome news!)
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: I-39 on February 03, 2021, 10:51:31 AM
I don't think I-69 in Tennessee is going to be completed for quite a while. TDOT has much bigger things they need to be spending money on.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Ryctor2018 on February 03, 2021, 11:49:24 AM
The Dyersburg - Memphis section won't be completed for a while. But, as I stated in the I-69 thread, in a few years the Dyersburg to Fulton, KY section will be completed. Other than the Ohio river crossing, a driver (using I-55 to Dyersburg) could travel all the way to Michigan on I-69. I would not be surprised if TN cancels I-155 in favor of I-69, then connects that to I-55 in AR. The two routes can multiplex from Hayti, AR to Memphis to complete the connection for I-69 to Canada.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: I-55 on February 03, 2021, 02:57:00 PM
Quote from: Ryctor2018 on February 03, 2021, 11:49:24 AM
The Dyersburg - Memphis section won't be completed for a while. But, as I stated in the I-69 thread, in a few years the Dyersburg to Fulton, KY section will be completed. Other than the Ohio river crossing, a driver (using I-55 to Dyersburg) could travel all the way to Michigan on I-69. I would not be surprised if TN cancels I-155 in favor of I-69, then connects that to I-55 in AR. The two routes can multiplex from Hayti, AR to Memphis to complete the connection for I-69 to Canada.

From north of Dyersburg to downtown Memphis it takes the same amount of time to take I-155 to I-55 as it does to take US-412 east to TN-54, getting on I-40 at Brownsville (1h 57 from US-51 near Obion). US-51 south from Dyersburg is the fastest over both, but anything east of downtown is faster to take 412. The other thing to remember is that I-155 to I-55 is already interstate, so it will not become any faster with upgrades, US-51 would be about 30 minutes faster as an interstate as it is 30 miles shorter (to downtown).

From Indianapolis, the difference between the I-155 route and I-70 -> I-57 is 40 minutes in favor of I-70 (6h 52 to 7h 32). I doubt that the upgrades to I-69 in Section 6, the ORX, and Union City will net 40 minutes (since these upgrades are less than 40 miles and the existing speed limit on these stretches averages about 55 mph).

Thus, I doubt TN will go to this routing for two reasons.
1. The I-155 routing is slower for shorter and longer range traffic on the I-69 corridor and
2. I-69 is not signed south of Dyersburg in TN, thus there is less pressure to connect it to I-40 in the short term.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on February 03, 2021, 07:05:50 PM
Quote from: I-55 on February 03, 2021, 02:57:00 PM
Quote from: Ryctor2018 on February 03, 2021, 11:49:24 AM
The Dyersburg - Memphis section won't be completed for a while. But, as I stated in the I-69 thread, in a few years the Dyersburg to Fulton, KY section will be completed. Other than the Ohio river crossing, a driver (using I-55 to Dyersburg) could travel all the way to Michigan on I-69. I would not be surprised if TN cancels I-155 in favor of I-69, then connects that to I-55 in AR. The two routes can multiplex from Hayti, AR to Memphis to complete the connection for I-69 to Canada.

From north of Dyersburg to downtown Memphis it takes the same amount of time to take I-155 to I-55 as it does to take US-412 east to TN-54, getting on I-40 at Brownsville (1h 57 from US-51 near Obion). US-51 south from Dyersburg is the fastest over both, but anything east of downtown is faster to take 412. The other thing to remember is that I-155 to I-55 is already interstate, so it will not become any faster with upgrades, US-51 would be about 30 minutes faster as an interstate as it is 30 miles shorter (to downtown).

From Indianapolis, the difference between the I-155 route and I-70 -> I-57 is 40 minutes in favor of I-70 (6h 52 to 7h 32). I doubt that the upgrades to I-69 in Section 6, the ORX, and Union City will net 40 minutes (since these upgrades are less than 40 miles and the existing speed limit on these stretches averages about 55 mph).

Thus, I doubt TN will go to this routing for two reasons.
1. The I-155 routing is slower for shorter and longer range traffic on the I-69 corridor and
2. I-69 is not signed south of Dyersburg in TN, thus there is less pressure to connect it to I-40 in the short term.

Part of the bigger story about the Dyersburg-Memphis section of I-69 that often gets overlooked when talking about whether or not it'll ever get built is the fact that environmental groups have been fighting TDOT tooth and nail over the routing of that section, since this segment goes through a lot of wetlands and floodplains as it follows the Mississippi River and crosses a few of its tributaries along the route.  That's a major reason why you haven't seen a Final EIS or Record of Decision published for Segment 8 that runs from I-155 near Dyersburg to I-269 in Millington, not just because of a lack of funding, but also because of strong opposition from locals and environmental groups.  For the last unbuilt portion of Segment 9 between I-269 in Millington and I-40/TN-300 in Memphis, TDOT was supposed to be working on a Supplemental EIS to address a couple of Superfund sites in the path of I-69 that would first have to be remediated before construction on the highway could proceed. Like Segment 8, there is no money to complete the Supplemental EIS for this last stretch of I-69 in Tennessee, and plenty of local opposition.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on February 04, 2021, 12:03:26 PM
Quote from: abqtraveler on February 03, 2021, 07:05:50 PM
Quote from: I-55 on February 03, 2021, 02:57:00 PM
Quote from: Ryctor2018 on February 03, 2021, 11:49:24 AM
The Dyersburg - Memphis section won't be completed for a while. But, as I stated in the I-69 thread, in a few years the Dyersburg to Fulton, KY section will be completed. Other than the Ohio river crossing, a driver (using I-55 to Dyersburg) could travel all the way to Michigan on I-69. I would not be surprised if TN cancels I-155 in favor of I-69, then connects that to I-55 in AR. The two routes can multiplex from Hayti, AR to Memphis to complete the connection for I-69 to Canada.

From north of Dyersburg to downtown Memphis it takes the same amount of time to take I-155 to I-55 as it does to take US-412 east to TN-54, getting on I-40 at Brownsville (1h 57 from US-51 near Obion). US-51 south from Dyersburg is the fastest over both, but anything east of downtown is faster to take 412. The other thing to remember is that I-155 to I-55 is already interstate, so it will not become any faster with upgrades, US-51 would be about 30 minutes faster as an interstate as it is 30 miles shorter (to downtown).

From Indianapolis, the difference between the I-155 route and I-70 -> I-57 is 40 minutes in favor of I-70 (6h 52 to 7h 32). I doubt that the upgrades to I-69 in Section 6, the ORX, and Union City will net 40 minutes (since these upgrades are less than 40 miles and the existing speed limit on these stretches averages about 55 mph).

Thus, I doubt TN will go to this routing for two reasons.
1. The I-155 routing is slower for shorter and longer range traffic on the I-69 corridor and
2. I-69 is not signed south of Dyersburg in TN, thus there is less pressure to connect it to I-40 in the short term.

Part of the bigger story about the Dyersburg-Memphis section of I-69 that often gets overlooked when talking about whether or not it'll ever get built is the fact that environmental groups have been fighting TDOT tooth and nail over the routing of that section, since this segment goes through a lot of wetlands and floodplains as it follows the Mississippi River and crosses a few of its tributaries along the route.  That's a major reason why you haven't seen a Final EIS or Record of Decision published for Segment 8 that runs from I-155 near Dyersburg to I-269 in Millington, not just because of a lack of funding, but also because of strong opposition from locals and environmental groups.  For the last unbuilt portion of Segment 9 between I-269 in Millington and I-40/TN-300 in Memphis, TDOT was supposed to be working on a Supplemental EIS to address a couple of Superfund sites in the path of I-69 that would first have to be remediated before construction on the highway could proceed. Like Segment 8, there is no money to complete the Supplemental EIS for this last stretch of I-69 in Tennessee, and plenty of local opposition.

Last I read was that the proposed bridge crossing the Hatchie River north of Covington was requiring a lot of ROW and it was raising some opposition. There is a lot of swamp/wetland there.

The ROW from TN-385 to Millington is known and documented.

The ROW at I-69 & US-51 further south is so messed up they removed it from the TNDOT website. The Superfund site next to the Loosahatchie River (noted above) is causing heartburn with the locals.





Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on February 04, 2021, 05:47:50 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on February 04, 2021, 12:03:26 PM
Quote from: abqtraveler on February 03, 2021, 07:05:50 PM
Quote from: I-55 on February 03, 2021, 02:57:00 PM
Quote from: Ryctor2018 on February 03, 2021, 11:49:24 AM
The Dyersburg - Memphis section won't be completed for a while. But, as I stated in the I-69 thread, in a few years the Dyersburg to Fulton, KY section will be completed. Other than the Ohio river crossing, a driver (using I-55 to Dyersburg) could travel all the way to Michigan on I-69. I would not be surprised if TN cancels I-155 in favor of I-69, then connects that to I-55 in AR. The two routes can multiplex from Hayti, AR to Memphis to complete the connection for I-69 to Canada.

From north of Dyersburg to downtown Memphis it takes the same amount of time to take I-155 to I-55 as it does to take US-412 east to TN-54, getting on I-40 at Brownsville (1h 57 from US-51 near Obion). US-51 south from Dyersburg is the fastest over both, but anything east of downtown is faster to take 412. The other thing to remember is that I-155 to I-55 is already interstate, so it will not become any faster with upgrades, US-51 would be about 30 minutes faster as an interstate as it is 30 miles shorter (to downtown).

From Indianapolis, the difference between the I-155 route and I-70 -> I-57 is 40 minutes in favor of I-70 (6h 52 to 7h 32). I doubt that the upgrades to I-69 in Section 6, the ORX, and Union City will net 40 minutes (since these upgrades are less than 40 miles and the existing speed limit on these stretches averages about 55 mph).

Thus, I doubt TN will go to this routing for two reasons.
1. The I-155 routing is slower for shorter and longer range traffic on the I-69 corridor and
2. I-69 is not signed south of Dyersburg in TN, thus there is less pressure to connect it to I-40 in the short term.

Part of the bigger story about the Dyersburg-Memphis section of I-69 that often gets overlooked when talking about whether or not it'll ever get built is the fact that environmental groups have been fighting TDOT tooth and nail over the routing of that section, since this segment goes through a lot of wetlands and floodplains as it follows the Mississippi River and crosses a few of its tributaries along the route.  That's a major reason why you haven't seen a Final EIS or Record of Decision published for Segment 8 that runs from I-155 near Dyersburg to I-269 in Millington, not just because of a lack of funding, but also because of strong opposition from locals and environmental groups.  For the last unbuilt portion of Segment 9 between I-269 in Millington and I-40/TN-300 in Memphis, TDOT was supposed to be working on a Supplemental EIS to address a couple of Superfund sites in the path of I-69 that would first have to be remediated before construction on the highway could proceed. Like Segment 8, there is no money to complete the Supplemental EIS for this last stretch of I-69 in Tennessee, and plenty of local opposition.

Last I read was that the proposed bridge crossing the Hatchie River north of Covington was requiring a lot of ROW and it was raising some opposition. There is a lot of swamp/wetland there.

The ROW from TN-385 to Millington is known and documented.

The ROW at I-69 & US-51 further south is so messed up they removed it from the TNDOT website. The Superfund site next to the Loosahatchie River (noted above) is causing heartburn with the locals.

Last I heard they were planning to route I-69 over the existing US-51 across the Hatchie River. Is that still the plan?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on February 04, 2021, 10:50:25 PM
If Interstate 69 cannot be built along the US 51 corridor from Memphis to Dyersburg, maybe Interstate 69 will have to follow all of Interstate 155 to Interstate 55. Then it might have to follow Interstate 55 through Missouri and Arkansas to reconnect with existing Interstate 69 south of the Mississippi/Tennessee border. Of course, if that happened, the TN 385/future Interstate 269 freeway will have to permanently remain TN 385, or the freeway will have to be extended across the Mississippi River to connect with Interstate 55 in Arkansas, though a state park and a wildlife refuge stand in the way of extending 385 into Arkansas.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on February 05, 2021, 05:16:01 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 04, 2021, 10:50:25 PM
If Interstate 69 cannot be built along the US 51 corridor from Memphis to Dyersburg, maybe Interstate 69 will have to follow all of Interstate 155 to Interstate 55. Then it might have to follow Interstate 55 through Missouri and Arkansas to reconnect with existing Interstate 69 south of the Mississippi/Tennessee border. Of course, if that happened, the TN 385/future Interstate 269 freeway will have to permanently remain TN 385, or the freeway will have to be extended across the Mississippi River to connect with Interstate 55 in Arkansas, though a state park and a wildlife refuge stand in the way of extending 385 into Arkansas.

The alternate, of course, is to veer east of the present US 51 corridor, perhaps partially utilizing the section of US 412 immediately east of US 51, then paralleling 51 down to at least TN 385/future I-269.  At that point it could either head west along 385 (if the Superfund site mess is eventually cleared up) or just replace I-269 south.  But it remains to be seen if TDOT is either (a) that clever or (b) that interested in a resolution to the corridor issue.   
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on February 05, 2021, 09:24:34 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 04, 2021, 10:50:25 PM
If Interstate 69 cannot be built along the US 51 corridor from Memphis to Dyersburg, maybe Interstate 69 will have to follow all of Interstate 155 to Interstate 55. Then it might have to follow Interstate 55 through Missouri and Arkansas to reconnect with existing Interstate 69 south of the Mississippi/Tennessee border. Of course, if that happened, the TN 385/future Interstate 269 freeway will have to permanently remain TN 385, or the freeway will have to be extended across the Mississippi River to connect with Interstate 55 in Arkansas, though a state park and a wildlife refuge stand in the way of extending 385 into Arkansas.

Another point of consideration about routing I-69 over I-55 through Missouri, Arkansas and back into Tennessee, is the Crump Boulevard interchange. I recall that TDOT was getting ready to reconfigure the Crump interchange, but from what I've read it sounds like they've pulled the plug on that project.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Bobby5280 on February 05, 2021, 10:39:21 AM
Quote from: The GhostbusterIf Interstate 69 cannot be built along the US 51 corridor from Memphis to Dyersburg, maybe Interstate 69 will have to follow all of Interstate 155 to Interstate 55.

I thought the plan for I-69 between Memphis and Dyersburg was a mostly new terrain path built to the west of the existing US-51 corridor. I can recall seeing concept/study maps about the plan.

As for US-51 between Memphis and Dyersburg, very little of that can be upgraded to Interstate quality due to so much property encroachment on the existing US-51 ROW.

Regarding the concept of routing I-69 over I-155 and then I-55 in Arkansas, I think the idea is a bit of a non-starter. I-69 already follows enough of a stupidly crooked path. Putting it over I-155 just makes the route even more crooked still. If I-69 was pushed that way into Arkansas at that spot then I-69 might as well stay in Arkansas until it hit the Louisiana border. Making the route go into Arkansas and then back into Tennessee just to briefly touch Memphis, then go down into Mississippi and then back into Arkansas again is just ridiculous.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on February 05, 2021, 11:06:31 AM
Quote from: abqtraveler on February 04, 2021, 05:47:50 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on February 04, 2021, 12:03:26 PM
Quote from: abqtraveler on February 03, 2021, 07:05:50 PM
Quote from: I-55 on February 03, 2021, 02:57:00 PM
Quote from: Ryctor2018 on February 03, 2021, 11:49:24 AM
The Dyersburg - Memphis section won't be completed for a while. But, as I stated in the I-69 thread, in a few years the Dyersburg to Fulton, KY section will be completed. Other than the Ohio river crossing, a driver (using I-55 to Dyersburg) could travel all the way to Michigan on I-69. I would not be surprised if TN cancels I-155 in favor of I-69, then connects that to I-55 in AR. The two routes can multiplex from Hayti, AR to Memphis to complete the connection for I-69 to Canada.

From north of Dyersburg to downtown Memphis it takes the same amount of time to take I-155 to I-55 as it does to take US-412 east to TN-54, getting on I-40 at Brownsville (1h 57 from US-51 near Obion). US-51 south from Dyersburg is the fastest over both, but anything east of downtown is faster to take 412. The other thing to remember is that I-155 to I-55 is already interstate, so it will not become any faster with upgrades, US-51 would be about 30 minutes faster as an interstate as it is 30 miles shorter (to downtown).

From Indianapolis, the difference between the I-155 route and I-70 -> I-57 is 40 minutes in favor of I-70 (6h 52 to 7h 32). I doubt that the upgrades to I-69 in Section 6, the ORX, and Union City will net 40 minutes (since these upgrades are less than 40 miles and the existing speed limit on these stretches averages about 55 mph).

Thus, I doubt TN will go to this routing for two reasons.
1. The I-155 routing is slower for shorter and longer range traffic on the I-69 corridor and
2. I-69 is not signed south of Dyersburg in TN, thus there is less pressure to connect it to I-40 in the short term.

Part of the bigger story about the Dyersburg-Memphis section of I-69 that often gets overlooked when talking about whether or not it'll ever get built is the fact that environmental groups have been fighting TDOT tooth and nail over the routing of that section, since this segment goes through a lot of wetlands and floodplains as it follows the Mississippi River and crosses a few of its tributaries along the route.  That's a major reason why you haven't seen a Final EIS or Record of Decision published for Segment 8 that runs from I-155 near Dyersburg to I-269 in Millington, not just because of a lack of funding, but also because of strong opposition from locals and environmental groups.  For the last unbuilt portion of Segment 9 between I-269 in Millington and I-40/TN-300 in Memphis, TDOT was supposed to be working on a Supplemental EIS to address a couple of Superfund sites in the path of I-69 that would first have to be remediated before construction on the highway could proceed. Like Segment 8, there is no money to complete the Supplemental EIS for this last stretch of I-69 in Tennessee, and plenty of local opposition.

Last I read was that the proposed bridge crossing the Hatchie River north of Covington was requiring a lot of ROW and it was raising some opposition. There is a lot of swamp/wetland there.

The ROW from TN-385 to Millington is known and documented.

The ROW at I-69 & US-51 further south is so messed up they removed it from the TNDOT website. The Superfund site next to the Loosahatchie River (noted above) is causing heartburn with the locals.

Last I heard they were planning to route I-69 over the existing US-51 across the Hatchie River. Is that still the plan?

Both alternatives have a new bridge over the Hatchie, just west of existing US-51.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Henry on February 05, 2021, 11:13:28 AM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on February 05, 2021, 10:39:21 AM
Quote from: The GhostbusterIf Interstate 69 cannot be built along the US 51 corridor from Memphis to Dyersburg, maybe Interstate 69 will have to follow all of Interstate 155 to Interstate 55.

I thought the plan for I-69 between Memphis and Dyersburg was a mostly new terrain path built to the west of the existing US-51 corridor. I can recall seeing concept/study maps about the plan.

As for US-51 between Memphis and Dyersburg, very little of that can be upgraded to Interstate quality due to so much property encroachment on the existing US-51 ROW.

Regarding the concept of routing I-69 over I-155 and then I-55 in Arkansas, I think the idea is a bit of a non-starter. I-69 already follows enough of a stupidly crooked path. Putting it over I-155 just makes the route even more crooked still. If I-69 was pushed that way into Arkansas at that spot then I-69 might as well stay in Arkansas until it hit the Louisiana border. Making the route go into Arkansas and then back into Tennessee just to briefly touch Memphis, then go down into Mississippi and then back into Arkansas again is just ridiculous.
Agreed on all counts! I'd rather risk building I-69 next to US 51 than make a long multiplex with I-55 just to get it to Memphis.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Life in Paradise on February 05, 2021, 02:28:56 PM
Quote from: Henry on February 05, 2021, 11:13:28 AM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on February 05, 2021, 10:39:21 AM
Quote from: The GhostbusterIf Interstate 69 cannot be built along the US 51 corridor from Memphis to Dyersburg, maybe Interstate 69 will have to follow all of Interstate 155 to Interstate 55.

I thought the plan for I-69 between Memphis and Dyersburg was a mostly new terrain path built to the west of the existing US-51 corridor. I can recall seeing concept/study maps about the plan.

As for US-51 between Memphis and Dyersburg, very little of that can be upgraded to Interstate quality due to so much property encroachment on the existing US-51 ROW.

Regarding the concept of routing I-69 over I-155 and then I-55 in Arkansas, I think the idea is a bit of a non-starter. I-69 already follows enough of a stupidly crooked path. Putting it over I-155 just makes the route even more crooked still. If I-69 was pushed that way into Arkansas at that spot then I-69 might as well stay in Arkansas until it hit the Louisiana border. Making the route go into Arkansas and then back into Tennessee just to briefly touch Memphis, then go down into Mississippi and then back into Arkansas again is just ridiculous.
Agreed on all counts! I'd rather risk building I-69 next to US 51 than make a long multiplex with I-55 just to get it to Memphis.
I still like the option of running I-69 down US 412 from Dyersburg down to around Cairo and then split it off to go south (near TN 54) and then going around Brownsville and merging with I-40 towards Memphis.  This would only need about 20-25 miles of new road, and about 20-25 miles of upgraded 4 lane (US 412).  The biggest cost might be upgrading I-40 from  Brownsville to Memphis.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: tdindy88 on February 05, 2021, 08:51:39 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on February 05, 2021, 10:39:21 AM
Quote from: The GhostbusterIf Interstate 69 cannot be built along the US 51 corridor from Memphis to Dyersburg, maybe Interstate 69 will have to follow all of Interstate 155 to Interstate 55.

I thought the plan for I-69 between Memphis and Dyersburg was a mostly new terrain path built to the west of the existing US-51 corridor. I can recall seeing concept/study maps about the plan.

As for US-51 between Memphis and Dyersburg, very little of that can be upgraded to Interstate quality due to so much property encroachment on the existing US-51 ROW.

Regarding the concept of routing I-69 over I-155 and then I-55 in Arkansas, I think the idea is a bit of a non-starter. I-69 already follows enough of a stupidly crooked path. Putting it over I-155 just makes the route even more crooked still. If I-69 was pushed that way into Arkansas at that spot then I-69 might as well stay in Arkansas until it hit the Louisiana border. Making the route go into Arkansas and then back into Tennessee just to briefly touch Memphis, then go down into Mississippi and then back into Arkansas again is just ridiculous.

I saw this discussion earlier and it got me thinking: what if we did run I-69 along I-155 to I-55 and just ended the highway there, on a temporary basis. Since it appears Tennessee is going to be taking a long time finishing I-69 down to Memphis and Mississippi and Arkansas are going at a snail's pace with this, it may be better than nothing to just run the highway to 55 and terminating it there. Once Tennessee and the other states got serious about finishing their other sections of I-69 the route could be moved onto its final routing and the I-155 routing could be renumbered into something. And with this plan, I-69 wouldn't follow I-55 into Memphis and all of that and Mississippi and keep their random section by themselves if they so desire.

Likewise, if Texas got their I-69 moving along maybe they could route I-69 north to Texarkana and if Louisiana ever got their bit of I-69 going then they would renumber the bit going to Texarkana I-369. The end result would be two seperate I-69's, a Port Huron to Dyersburg/I-55 routing and one through Texas. Once the other states actually got moving on their I-69's then we could actually look into connecting the two separate routes.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on February 05, 2021, 09:07:36 PM
Quote from: tdindy88 on February 05, 2021, 08:51:39 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on February 05, 2021, 10:39:21 AM
Quote from: The GhostbusterIf Interstate 69 cannot be built along the US 51 corridor from Memphis to Dyersburg, maybe Interstate 69 will have to follow all of Interstate 155 to Interstate 55.

I thought the plan for I-69 between Memphis and Dyersburg was a mostly new terrain path built to the west of the existing US-51 corridor. I can recall seeing concept/study maps about the plan.

As for US-51 between Memphis and Dyersburg, very little of that can be upgraded to Interstate quality due to so much property encroachment on the existing US-51 ROW.

Regarding the concept of routing I-69 over I-155 and then I-55 in Arkansas, I think the idea is a bit of a non-starter. I-69 already follows enough of a stupidly crooked path. Putting it over I-155 just makes the route even more crooked still. If I-69 was pushed that way into Arkansas at that spot then I-69 might as well stay in Arkansas until it hit the Louisiana border. Making the route go into Arkansas and then back into Tennessee just to briefly touch Memphis, then go down into Mississippi and then back into Arkansas again is just ridiculous.

I saw this discussion earlier and it got me thinking: what if we did run I-69 along I-155 to I-55 and just ended the highway there, on a temporary basis. Since it appears Tennessee is going to be taking a long time finishing I-69 down to Memphis and Mississippi and Arkansas are going at a snail's pace with this, it may be better than nothing to just run the highway to 55 and terminating it there. Once Tennessee and the other states got serious about finishing their other sections of I-69 the route could be moved onto its final routing and the I-155 routing could be renumbered into something. And with this plan, I-69 wouldn't follow I-55 into Memphis and all of that and Mississippi and keep their random section by themselves if they so desire.

Likewise, if Texas got their I-69 moving along maybe they could route I-69 north to Texarkana and if Louisiana ever got their bit of I-69 going then they would renumber the bit going to Texarkana I-369. The end result would be two seperate I-69's, a Port Huron to Dyersburg/I-55 routing and one through Texas. Once the other states actually got moving on their I-69's then we could actually look into connecting the two separate routes.

I think there would be a better case to convince Congress to amend the Corridor 18/20 legislation to truncate I-69 at Dyersburg, eliminate the section between Dyersburg and Tenaha, Texas, and re-designate the Texarkana to Mexico Border section as something else (maybe I-47) and give two of the three South Texas branches different numbers. I say this because there's not a snowball's chance in a blast furnace that Tennessee, Mississippi, Arkansas, or Louisiana will do any work on their sections until Congress ponies up the money to build it, and don't expect Congress to fund I-69 any time soon. Time to stick a fork in it--it's done.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: I-39 on February 05, 2021, 11:04:39 PM
Quote from: abqtraveler on February 05, 2021, 09:07:36 PM
I think there would be a better case to convince Congress to amend the Corridor 18/20 legislation to truncate I-69 at Dyersburg, eliminate the section between Dyersburg and Tenaha, Texas, and re-designate the Texarkana to Mexico Border section as something else (maybe I-47) and give two of the three South Texas branches different numbers. I say this because there's not a snowball's chance in a blast furnace that Tennessee, Mississippi, Arkansas, or Louisiana will do any work on their sections until Congress ponies up the money to build it, and don't expect Congress to fund I-69 any time soon. Time to stick a fork in it--it's done.

I agree in principle, but good luck trying to get that through Congress. Too much pork involved.

I-69 never should've been done in the first place. If InDOT wanted an Interstate near Evansville, they should've done the I-67 proposal (Indianapolis to Bowling Green, KY) and then extended it north to Michigan via US 31.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Bobby5280 on February 06, 2021, 01:04:27 AM
The I-69 effort has been something of a joke for the past 20+ years. The segments in Kentucky and Southern Indiana are pretty much the most crooked looking routes in the entire Interstate highway system. I doubt if I-69 in those areas will attract any sort of high traffic counts.

More and more the Great River Bridge in Southern Arkansas and Mississippi looks like a pipe dream. Meanwhile the Memphis metro has much more immediate needs with replacing the janky, narrow I-55 tinker toy bridge over the Mississippi (and that stupid cloverleaf crap at Crump Blvd). The I-40 bridge over the Mississippi River is not up to current standards (6 lanes but ZERO shoulders). And there are legit needs to extend I-269 across the Mississippi both North and South of the Memphis metro. I-269 really needs to be a complete outer loop around Memphis.

Out of all the I-69 projects being proposed or in progress, the projects down in Texas are the most legit out of any I-69 effort. But it could all be under a different Interstate number, such as I-47. There is no debate that Houston and Corpus Christi needs to be directly linked with an Interstate quality corridor. There is also no debate that Laredo to Houston also needs to be Interstate quality. And the Rio Grand Valley part of Texas way down at the Southern tip is home to well over a million people in a cluster of small to mid-sized cities. I-2 from Brownsville to Laredo is justifiable. Same goes for the "E," "C" and "W" segments of I-69.

The BIG PROBLEM is I-69 has already had its dye cast. It's very difficult, if not downright impossible, for the Texas contingent of I-69 routes to just change the number to I-47. Too much signage has already been installed. Too many businesses and institutions have adjusted their advertising and communications to accommodate that route number. The way it looks is we'll have a perpetually incomplete I-69 for quite a long time until the federal government finally caves and provides the funding needed to complete the job thru Northern Louisiana, Southern Arkansas, NW Mississippi and Tennessee.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Bill C. on February 06, 2021, 07:25:51 AM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on February 06, 2021, 01:04:27 AM
The I-69 effort has been something of a joke for the past 20+ years.


The BIG PROBLEM is I-69 has already had its dye cast. It's very difficult, if not downright impossible, for the Texas contingent of I-69 routes to just change the number to I-47. Too much signage has already been installed. Too many businesses and institutions have adjusted their advertising and communications to accommodate that route number. The way it looks is we'll have a perpetually incomplete I-69 for quite a long time until the federal government finally caves and provides the funding needed to complete the job thru Northern Louisiana, Southern Arkansas, NW Mississippi and Tennessee.

The solution is to leave I-69 permanently split into two disparate and non-connected highways similar to I-87. Truncate I-69 at Texarkana and in northern Mississippi near Tunica's casinos. Tennessee can finish I-69 to Dyersburg then run it over i-155 and down I-55 to Memphis. That would permanently finish the road and the two ends would never need to be connected.

Having one contiguous roadway for its own sake  which no one would ever use in a single trip is pointless. Spending billions to build a road where traffic counts don't warrant the expense, will never justify to human, environment, and monetary expense is ludicrous. Arkansas, Louisiana, and Mississippi don't have any need for this road now or in the foreseeable future.

As to Congress: they'll be too busy pigging out to notice the pork is missing from the plate over the next four years. Mississippi, Arkansas, and Louisiana Congressmen could slip the change in I-69 into a rider on a bill, pass it into law without fanfare, and stop the madness.

Change doesn't have to be complicated. It just takes a leader to be either forceful or stealthy.   
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Life in Paradise on February 06, 2021, 02:15:18 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on February 06, 2021, 01:04:27 AM
The I-69 effort has been something of a joke for the past 20+ years. The segments in Kentucky and Southern Indiana are pretty much the most crooked looking routes in the entire Interstate highway system. I doubt if I-69 in those areas will attract any sort of high traffic counts.

Meet I-25 in New Mexico, I-75 in Florida, I-40 in Western Arkansas, I-15 in Southern California, I-25 (again) in Wyoming, to name a few crooked routes.  You may not like the I-69 project at all, but the current political climate does not allow roads to head straight through areas like they used to.  TN, MS, and AR were added for some political clout, and I would agree, unless there is some sort of funding from the federal government, those sections are not going to happen.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Ryctor2018 on February 06, 2021, 02:25:13 PM
To steer the thread back on topic, how much of I-69 around Union City has been paved? There aren't pictures in TNDOT's website I can find, just status reports. Has grading started on the section south of Union City south of the current zone near Troy, TN? I may consider traveling to the area in the spring to check it out.

Would TNDOT consider tolling Dyersburg-Memphis? The question was rejected before, but unless the piggybank is cracked open, that's the only way I see a highway built.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Rick Powell on February 06, 2021, 04:21:41 PM
Quote from: Bill C. on February 06, 2021, 07:25:51 AM
The solution is to leave I-69 permanently split into two disparate and non-connected highways similar to I-87. Truncate I-69 at Texarkana and in northern Mississippi near Tunica's casinos. Tennessee can finish I-69 to Dyersburg then run it over i-155 and down I-55 to Memphis. That would permanently finish the road and the two ends would never need to be connected. 
That solution might also be useful for gaining additional funding for I-55 and I-40 since there would be a de facto concurrency of I-69 from Dyersburg to Texarkana.
Heck, it's a lot easier to add an Interstate shield to an existing I/Route than to build a new one, and lane improvements can come later.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: I-39 on February 06, 2021, 05:32:31 PM
Quote from: Bill C. on February 06, 2021, 07:25:51 AM
Having one contiguous roadway for its own sake  which no one would ever use in a single trip is pointless. Spending billions to build a road where traffic counts don't warrant the expense, will never justify to human, environment, and monetary expense is ludicrous. Arkansas, Louisiana, and Mississippi don't have any need for this road now or in the foreseeable future.

^^^^^^^^^^^^

THIS!

I-69 is a complete political joke between Memphis and Texas. Even the Kentucky and Tennessee sections are questionable. We have much bigger things that our tax dollars need to be spent on. 
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: thefro on February 08, 2021, 10:44:34 AM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on February 06, 2021, 01:04:27 AM
The I-69 effort has been something of a joke for the past 20+ years. The segments in Kentucky and Southern Indiana are pretty much the most crooked looking routes in the entire Interstate highway system. I doubt if I-69 in those areas will attract any sort of high traffic counts.

More and more the Great River Bridge in Southern Arkansas and Mississippi looks like a pipe dream. Meanwhile the Memphis metro has much more immediate needs with replacing the janky, narrow I-55 tinker toy bridge over the Mississippi (and that stupid cloverleaf crap at Crump Blvd). The I-40 bridge over the Mississippi River is not up to current standards (6 lanes but ZERO shoulders). And there are legit needs to extend I-269 across the Mississippi both North and South of the Memphis metro. I-269 really needs to be a complete outer loop around Memphis.

Out of all the I-69 projects being proposed or in progress, the projects down in Texas are the most legit out of any I-69 effort. But it could all be under a different Interstate number, such as I-47. There is no debate that Houston and Corpus Christi needs to be directly linked with an Interstate quality corridor. There is also no debate that Laredo to Houston also needs to be Interstate quality. And the Rio Grand Valley part of Texas way down at the Southern tip is home to well over a million people in a cluster of small to mid-sized cities. I-2 from Brownsville to Laredo is justifiable. Same goes for the "E," "C" and "W" segments of I-69.

The BIG PROBLEM is I-69 has already had its dye cast. It's very difficult, if not downright impossible, for the Texas contingent of I-69 routes to just change the number to I-47. Too much signage has already been installed. Too many businesses and institutions have adjusted their advertising and communications to accommodate that route number. The way it looks is we'll have a perpetually incomplete I-69 for quite a long time until the federal government finally caves and provides the funding needed to complete the job thru Northern Louisiana, Southern Arkansas, NW Mississippi and Tennessee.

Literally the whole idea was cooked up by people in Washington, IN to get politicians from other states like Texas on board so that the route could get federal money and be prioritized.  Those people were mad that I-64 got routed south instead of following the old Buffalo Trace/US 150 (which the railroads also followed) from Louisville to Washington, IN before going west through Vincennes and on to St. Louis, MO eventually.  Evansville, IN also wanted their interstate highway to Indianapolis.

There's local utility here in Indiana (especially for the Bloomington to Indianapolis leg which already is probably 5th in traffic in terms of routes feeding into Indianapolis) and Kentucky was able to put the I-69 over their existing parkways relatively inexpensively.

I think it'll be fine to end the route at Dyersburg or Memphis and use I-40/I-30 as the connection to the Texas leg.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Bobby5280 on February 08, 2021, 11:57:18 AM
Quote from: Life in ParadiseMeet I-25 in New Mexico, I-75 in Florida, I-40 in Western Arkansas, I-15 in Southern California, I-25 (again) in Wyoming, to name a few crooked routes.  You may not like the I-69 project at all, but the current political climate does not allow roads to head straight through areas like they used to.  TN, MS, and AR were added for some political clout, and I would agree, unless there is some sort of funding from the federal government, those sections are not going to happen.

The non-straight Interstates you mentioned are not good examples.

I-40 in Western Arkansas is not all that crooked. It's nothing like the route I-69 takes through Kentucky and Southern Indiana.

I-25 in New Mexico was routed the way it is North of Albuquerque out of sheer necessity. The highway had to go North to connect to Santa Fe and then zig zag through Glorieta Mesa and the southern limits of the Sangre de Cristo Mountains to get around and back up to Las Vegas, NM. The Amtrak line nearby follows an even less straight path and doesn't even get to Santa Fe (any riders from Santa Fe have to get on/off at the station in Lamy). I-25 in Wyoming has a similar situation, having to get around the Laramie Mountain Range between Cheyenne and Casper.

I-75 in Florida originally terminated on the West Coast. Alligator Alley was originally a 2 lane toll road that was later widened to 4-lane divided. Then I-75 was eventually designated on the route.

I-69 is routed the way it is mainly over politics.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: SkyPesos on February 08, 2021, 12:21:34 PM
We already know how unnecessary I-69 is in MS and AR, with I-40/I-30/I-369 as a direct route between Memphis and Tenaha, but I think that I-69 in TN can wait too. From Indy to Memphis, there's I-70/I-57/I-55. From the 3C cities in Ohio to Memphis (I called I-71 a branch of I-69 many times, this is why they're included), there's I-71/I-65/I-40. Sometimes, I forget how diagonal in the SW-NE direction I-40 is between Memphis and Nashville, and I-65 between Nashville and Louisville. The I-57 extension to Little Rock will also make the TN part of I-69 less needed.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: dvferyance on February 08, 2021, 01:06:51 PM
Quote from: I-39 on February 06, 2021, 05:32:31 PM
Quote from: Bill C. on February 06, 2021, 07:25:51 AM
Having one contiguous roadway for its own sake  which no one would ever use in a single trip is pointless. Spending billions to build a road where traffic counts don't warrant the expense, will never justify to human, environment, and monetary expense is ludicrous. Arkansas, Louisiana, and Mississippi don't have any need for this road now or in the foreseeable future.

^^^^^^^^^^^^

THIS!

I-69 is a complete political joke between Memphis and Texas. Even the Kentucky and Tennessee sections are questionable. We have much bigger things that our tax dollars need to be spent on.
I felt the same way at first about the Kentucky portion as well But it mainly overlaid existing freeways anyways. It was only the portion between Indianapolis and Evansville that has a great benefit.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sprjus4 on February 08, 2021, 02:04:46 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on February 08, 2021, 11:57:18 AM
I-40 in Western Arkansas is not all that crooked. It's nothing like the route I-69 takes through Kentucky and Southern Indiana.
25-30 miles longer than a direct shot between Memphis and Conway.
25-30 miles longer than a direct shot between Little Rock and Fort Smith.

Same situation with I-69. It's also important to mention, with your I-75 counter, it's the same situation. I-69 was overlaid on existing mostly interstate-standard parkways instead of building 70-80 miles of new terrain freeway.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: triplemultiplex on February 08, 2021, 02:47:19 PM
Quote from: Ryctor2018 on February 06, 2021, 02:25:13 PM
To steer the thread back on topic, how much of I-69 around Union City has been paved?

It's been paved from the US 51 interchange south of Union City to the exit by the tire plant for years now.  Long enough that grass is growing in the seams between the concrete ramps and their asphalt shoulders.

Quote from: Ryctor2018 on February 06, 2021, 02:25:13 PM
Has grading started on the section south of Union City south of the current zone near Troy, TN?

I don't think they're even going to start on that portion until the UC bypass is done. :-/
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on February 08, 2021, 03:44:05 PM
I suggested running Interstate 69 along 155 and 55 entirely because construction of the freeway between Memphis and Dyersburg is unlikely. After all, the Tennessee DOT has suspended completing environmental studies, right-of-way acquisition and potential construction until Congress supplies federal funding to do so, which seems remote. A toll road might help fund construction, but since Tennessee does not have a history of building toll roads, that might be a tough sell.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on February 08, 2021, 09:38:31 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 08, 2021, 02:47:19 PM
Quote from: Ryctor2018 on February 06, 2021, 02:25:13 PM
To steer the thread back on topic, how much of I-69 around Union City has been paved?

It's been paved from the US 51 interchange south of Union City to the exit by the tire plant for years now.  Long enough that grass is growing in the seams between the concrete ramps and their asphalt shoulders.

Quote from: Ryctor2018 on February 06, 2021, 02:25:13 PM
Has grading started on the section south of Union City south of the current zone near Troy, TN?

I don't think they're even going to start on that portion until the UC bypass is done. :-/

The ground has been broken for the ramps north of Union City from US-51 and they are grading the sections between that and the completed section north of the Titan Tire plant.

In fact a weed choked access ramp for construction trucks north of the tire plant is no longer. It is now quite used and busy.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: MikieTimT on February 09, 2021, 05:35:46 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on February 08, 2021, 02:04:46 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on February 08, 2021, 11:57:18 AM
I-40 in Western Arkansas is not all that crooked. It's nothing like the route I-69 takes through Kentucky and Southern Indiana.
25-30 miles longer than a direct shot between Memphis and Conway.
25-30 miles longer than a direct shot between Little Rock and Fort Smith.


I-40 was never not going to be routed close to Little Rock (state capital and largest city) before the original network, so routing along the US-64, US-65, US-70 existing roads was likely always the plan.   Besides, US-64, even though it connects Ft. Smith to Memphis without leaving the route, isn't very straight either due to terrain(hilly and Arkansas River in west, swampy and several river crossings in east)/WMAs, and has a 27 mile jag of a concurrency with US-67.  That's why the U.P. railroad is much the same across the state, and most of the U.S. highways and Interstates tend to follow the same routes.  Little Rock to Ft. Smith is routed pretty much along the Arkansas River valley just like U.P., but never crosses the river.  Ft. Smith had to get a spur in I-540 to cross the river, and there really isn't much of a possible route on the south side of the river to have straighten anything out before getting into the Ouachita foothills, which are an impediment that also affect Future I-49's routing in the mountainous reaches further west.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: rte66man on February 09, 2021, 09:51:14 PM
Quote from: Life in Paradise on February 06, 2021, 02:15:18 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on February 06, 2021, 01:04:27 AM
The I-69 effort has been something of a joke for the past 20+ years. The segments in Kentucky and Southern Indiana are pretty much the most crooked looking routes in the entire Interstate highway system. I doubt if I-69 in those areas will attract any sort of high traffic counts.

Meet I-25 in New Mexico, I-75 in Florida, I-40 in Western Arkansas, I-15 in Southern California, I-25 (again) in Wyoming, to name a few crooked routes.

Apples and oranges.  All of your examples are interstates that were built along or nearly parallel to existing major routes (except for 75 south of Tampa/St Pete). 25 and US85, 40 and US64, 15 and US395 (mostly), and 25 (again) and various US highways. 69 in Indiana from Evansville to Bloomington doesn't follow any existing route
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on February 09, 2021, 09:54:30 PM
US 65 parallels a portion of Interstate 40 from Conway to Little Rock, not US 67. US 67 parallels Interstate 30 from Texarkana to Little Rock and future Interstate 57 northeast of Little Rock.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: SkyPesos on February 09, 2021, 09:55:24 PM
Quote from: rte66man on February 09, 2021, 09:51:14 PM
All of your examples are interstates that were built along or nearly parallel to existing major routes (except for 75 south of Tampa/St Pete)
Thought I-75 parallels US 41 to Naples, then takes over FL 84/Alligator Alley to Miami.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: rte66man on February 09, 2021, 10:02:16 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 09, 2021, 09:54:30 PM
US 65 parallels a portion of Interstate 40 from Conway to Little Rock, not US 67. US 67 parallels Interstate 30 from Texarkana to Little Rock and future Interstate 57 northeast of Little Rock.

I didn't say 67, I said 64. I forgot to mention 65. The real reason it went that way is to not have to bridge the Arkansas River twice, once near Little Rock and again near Fort Smith.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: I-39 on February 09, 2021, 10:39:05 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on February 08, 2021, 01:06:51 PM
Quote from: I-39 on February 06, 2021, 05:32:31 PM
Quote from: Bill C. on February 06, 2021, 07:25:51 AM
Having one contiguous roadway for its own sake  which no one would ever use in a single trip is pointless. Spending billions to build a road where traffic counts don't warrant the expense, will never justify to human, environment, and monetary expense is ludicrous. Arkansas, Louisiana, and Mississippi don't have any need for this road now or in the foreseeable future.

^^^^^^^^^^^^

THIS!

I-69 is a complete political joke between Memphis and Texas. Even the Kentucky and Tennessee sections are questionable. We have much bigger things that our tax dollars need to be spent on.
I felt the same way at first about the Kentucky portion as well But it mainly overlaid existing freeways anyways. It was only the portion between Indianapolis and Evansville that has a great benefit.

And that could've been satisfied with the I-67 proposal and saved states a lot of money.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: kenarmy on February 09, 2021, 10:42:29 PM
I see google maps got around to labelling 69 in the memphis area quicker than TN, even the 40-51 connector lol. And yes 69's route shape is so unattractive! It seems like a short cut between some major routes. It literally goes " | - \ / "
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: jbrocato on February 10, 2021, 08:08:00 AM
Quote from: rte66man on February 09, 2021, 09:51:14 PM


Apples and oranges.  All of your examples are interstates that were built along or nearly parallel to existing major routes (except for 75 south of Tampa/St Pete). 25 and US85, 40 and US64, 15 and US395 (mostly), and 25 (again) and various US highways. 69 in Indiana from Evansville to Bloomington doesn't follow any existing route


That's exactly why I-69 was needed.  There was NO good way to drive from Evansville to Bloomington and Indianapolis.  Evansville is the state's third-largest city, but it was the only major city in Indiana without a good route to Indy.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on February 10, 2021, 09:45:43 AM
Quote from: jbrocato on February 10, 2021, 08:08:00 AM
Quote from: rte66man on February 09, 2021, 09:51:14 PM


Apples and oranges.  All of your examples are interstates that were built along or nearly parallel to existing major routes (except for 75 south of Tampa/St Pete). 25 and US85, 40 and US64, 15 and US395 (mostly), and 25 (again) and various US highways. 69 in Indiana from Evansville to Bloomington doesn't follow any existing route


That's exactly why I-69 was needed.  There was NO good way to drive from Evansville to Bloomington and Indianapolis.  Evansville is the state's third-largest city, but it was the only major city in Indiana without a good route to Indy.

Evansville is now a regional center for health care. Southeastern Illinois, southwestern Indiana and northwest Kentucky patients who need advanced care all get referred to Evansville now. Regardless of the routing, it was time. US-41 was their sole north-south major arterial and much of it to Terre Haute dates back to the middle 1960's. The town has 2 universities now and enrollments are growing. Should have been done a long time ago.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: I-39 on February 10, 2021, 09:59:43 AM
Quote from: jbrocato on February 10, 2021, 08:08:00 AM
Quote from: rte66man on February 09, 2021, 09:51:14 PM


Apples and oranges.  All of your examples are interstates that were built along or nearly parallel to existing major routes (except for 75 south of Tampa/St Pete). 25 and US85, 40 and US64, 15 and US395 (mostly), and 25 (again) and various US highways. 69 in Indiana from Evansville to Bloomington doesn't follow any existing route


That's exactly why I-69 was needed.  There was NO good way to drive from Evansville to Bloomington and Indianapolis.  Evansville is the state's third-largest city, but it was the only major city in Indiana without a good route to Indy.

They could have satisfied that with the I-67 proposal from Indianapolis to Bowling Green, Kentucky (slightly modified). Would have served the same purposed and been a heck of a lot cheaper.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on February 10, 2021, 01:07:11 PM
Quote from: I-39 on February 10, 2021, 09:59:43 AM
Quote from: jbrocato on February 10, 2021, 08:08:00 AM
Quote from: rte66man on February 09, 2021, 09:51:14 PM


Apples and oranges.  All of your examples are interstates that were built along or nearly parallel to existing major routes (except for 75 south of Tampa/St Pete). 25 and US85, 40 and US64, 15 and US395 (mostly), and 25 (again) and various US highways. 69 in Indiana from Evansville to Bloomington doesn't follow any existing route

Why would an alternate route from Indy to BG be needed, with I-65 in existence? Oh I know, to satisfy Owensboro's city fathers.

That's exactly why I-69 was needed.  There was NO good way to drive from Evansville to Bloomington and Indianapolis.  Evansville is the state's third-largest city, but it was the only major city in Indiana without a good route to Indy.

They could have satisfied that with the I-67 proposal from Indianapolis to Bowling Green, Kentucky (slightly modified). Would have served the same purposed and been a heck of a lot cheaper.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: I-39 on February 10, 2021, 02:20:26 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 10, 2021, 01:07:11 PM
Quote from: I-39 on February 10, 2021, 09:59:43 AM
Quote from: jbrocato on February 10, 2021, 08:08:00 AM
Quote from: rte66man on February 09, 2021, 09:51:14 PM


Apples and oranges.  All of your examples are interstates that were built along or nearly parallel to existing major routes (except for 75 south of Tampa/St Pete). 25 and US85, 40 and US64, 15 and US395 (mostly), and 25 (again) and various US highways. 69 in Indiana from Evansville to Bloomington doesn't follow any existing route

That's exactly why I-69 was needed.  There was NO good way to drive from Evansville to Bloomington and Indianapolis.  Evansville is the state's third-largest city, but it was the only major city in Indiana without a good route to Indy.

They could have satisfied that with the I-67 proposal from Indianapolis to Bowling Green, Kentucky (slightly modified). Would have served the same purposed and been a heck of a lot cheaper.
Why would an alternate route from Indy to BG be needed, with I-65 in existence? Oh I know, to satisfy Owensboro's city fathers.

It would have served the Indianapolis to Evansville Interstate need and done it without redundant Interstate segments in other states.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: wriddle082 on February 10, 2021, 03:17:49 PM
^^^

Bottom line:  I-69, when finally completed through TN to Memphis, will do wonders to relieve truck traffic along the I-40 and I-65 corridors through Nashville and Louisville.  The I-65 corridor has largely, and IMO miraculously, been widened through KY, and TN is finally about to get on the ball with trying to widen 65 north of Nashville to the KY line.  But I-40 west has been largely ignored (except for Jackson which is currently getting relief, albeit localized), and truck traffic has continued to grow.  Memphis has been a large distribution hub for years.  It is no coincidence that I-69's routing goes through Memphis.  And most people know how bad the truck traffic volumes are on I-40 between Memphis and Little Rock.  Putting some of that traffic on an alternate that gets them away from Dallas and the entire I-35 corridor en route to Mexico has got to be of at least some benefit of relief to the corridors being bypassed.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on February 10, 2021, 04:22:03 PM
Quote from: wriddle082 on February 10, 2021, 03:17:49 PM
^^^

Bottom line:  I-69, when finally completed through TN to Memphis, will do wonders to relieve truck traffic along the I-40 and I-65 corridors through Nashville and Louisville.  The I-65 corridor has largely, and IMO miraculously, been widened through KY, and TN is finally about to get on the ball with trying to widen 65 north of Nashville to the KY line.  But I-40 west has been largely ignored (except for Jackson which is currently getting relief, albeit localized), and truck traffic has continued to grow.  Memphis has been a large distribution hub for years.  It is no coincidence that I-69's routing goes through Memphis.  And most people know how bad the truck traffic volumes are on I-40 between Memphis and Little Rock.  Putting some of that traffic on an alternate that gets them away from Dallas and the entire I-35 corridor en route to Mexico has got to be of at least some benefit of relief to the corridors being bypassed.

I agree. It is something I have said across many threads.

It's not always about the shortest or fastest route, sometimes its about resiliency, capacity and economics.

Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Bobby5280 on February 10, 2021, 07:20:22 PM
I think the extension of I-57 between Little Rock and Sikeston will do more as a relief route for I-40 between Little Rock and Memphis than I-69. The road will be a whole lot easier (and cheaper) to complete as well.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: SkyPesos on February 10, 2021, 07:23:11 PM
Agree on the I-57 part. Mentioned this above:
Quote from: SkyPesos on February 08, 2021, 12:21:34 PM
We already know how unnecessary I-69 is in MS and AR, with I-40/I-30/I-369 as a direct route between Memphis and Tenaha, but I think that I-69 in TN can wait too. From Indy to Memphis, there's I-70/I-57/I-55. From the 3C cities in Ohio to Memphis (I called I-71 a branch of I-69 many times, this is why they're included), there's I-71/I-65/I-40. Sometimes, I forget how diagonal in the SW-NE direction I-40 is between Memphis and Nashville, and I-65 between Nashville and Louisville. The I-57 extension to Little Rock will also make the TN part of I-69 less needed.
I think the routing from Houston to Indianapolis, instead of all on I-69, it'll turn out as 69 > 369 > 30 > 57 > 70.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: I-39 on February 10, 2021, 07:42:44 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on February 10, 2021, 07:20:22 PM
I think the extension of I-57 between Little Rock and Sikeston will do more as a relief route for I-40 between Little Rock and Memphis than I-69. The road will be a whole lot easier (and cheaper) to complete as well.

Yes. The I-57 extension will negate the need for I-69 between Evansville and Memphis IMO.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on February 11, 2021, 03:33:42 AM
Quote from: I-39 on February 10, 2021, 07:42:44 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on February 10, 2021, 07:20:22 PM
I think the extension of I-57 between Little Rock and Sikeston will do more as a relief route for I-40 between Little Rock and Memphis than I-69. The road will be a whole lot easier (and cheaper) to complete as well.

Yes. The I-57 extension will negate the need for I-69 between Evansville and Memphis IMO.

Not necessarily; I-57 will siphon off a lot of the traffic coming up from or heading to TX, but Memphis is a commercial hub on its own -- not only FedEx and related movements but where a sizeable portion of West Coast rail container traffic is offloaded onto trucks for delivery in the Mid-to-Deep South.  I-69 north of Memphis provides a direct connection to KY population centers (as well as Cincinnati and southern Ohio) via the WKY extension (with or without I-status east of Nortonville).  It's not just about 1000-mile freight movements but more localized shorter hauls as well, and Memphis has been and will continue to be a major hub for such freight activity. 
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: SkyPesos on February 11, 2021, 07:55:22 AM
Quote from: sparker on February 11, 2021, 03:33:42 AM
I-69 north of Memphis provides a direct connection to KY population centers (as well as Cincinnati and southern Ohio)
I-40/I-65 pretty much connects Memphis to the I-71 corridor (for Ohio and the northeast) and is actually as diagonal as I-69 in TN and KY. I-69 would act as a glorified Nashville bypass in this sense; not necessarily a bad thing though.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sprjus4 on February 11, 2021, 08:33:54 AM
Quote from: SkyPesos on February 11, 2021, 07:55:22 AM
Quote from: sparker on February 11, 2021, 03:33:42 AM
I-69 north of Memphis provides a direct connection to KY population centers (as well as Cincinnati and southern Ohio)
I-40/I-65 pretty much connects Memphis to the I-71 corridor (for Ohio and the northeast) and is actually as diagonal as I-69 in TN and KY. I-69 would act as a glorified Nashville bypass in this sense; not necessarily a bad thing though.
That's true, a routing via WKY, I-69, and US-51 between I-65 and Memphis is about 10 miles shorter than I-65 / I-40 via Nashville. Once I-69 is complete in Tennessee, it would likely become the faster and more preferred route, and avoids Nashville.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on February 11, 2021, 10:59:50 AM
I've said this many times. If I need to get to Memphis or a point west of there, I will use the Kentucky parkways and US 51 to at least Dyersburg, and might even stay on 51 south of there instead of crossing the river on 155, before I will go through Nashville and then slog westward on 40.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: I-55 on February 11, 2021, 04:16:13 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 11, 2021, 10:59:50 AM
I've said this many times. If I need to get to Memphis or a point west of there, I will use the Kentucky parkways and US 51 to at least Dyersburg, and might even stay on 51 south of there instead of crossing the river on 155, before I will go through Nashville and then slog westward on 40.

Last time I was in the Memphis area I was in Collierville. I-65 was congested for spring break travel so we took the parkways to Fulton, from there taking 51, 412, 70/79, 40, 269. 40 west of Brownsville wasn't terrible, everything else was a breeze.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: wriddle082 on February 11, 2021, 07:35:47 PM
Quote from: I-55 on February 11, 2021, 04:16:13 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 11, 2021, 10:59:50 AM
I've said this many times. If I need to get to Memphis or a point west of there, I will use the Kentucky parkways and US 51 to at least Dyersburg, and might even stay on 51 south of there instead of crossing the river on 155, before I will go through Nashville and then slog westward on 40.

Last time I was in the Memphis area I was in Collierville. I-65 was congested for spring break travel so we took the parkways to Fulton, from there taking 51, 412, 70/79, 40, 269. 40 west of Brownsville wasn't terrible, everything else was a breeze.

The most congested parts of 40 b/w Memphis and Nashville are Jackson (which is being remedied right now) and from the Tennessee River the rest of the way east.  That section has several long grades that are currently scheduled to receive truck climbing lanes.  But AFAIK there are no plans to widen all of the lanes from Bellevue west towards Dickson.  The traffic volumes are always underestimated going in that direction, and neither US 70 nor TN 100 function well as alternates.  I lived in that area on and off from 1996 to 2010, and even though I-840 was finally completed during that time, 40 has just gotten worse and worse.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Ryctor2018 on February 12, 2021, 02:03:20 PM
Once I-69 is completed around Union City in a couple of years, how do you guys think it will be signed? The interchange at the KY-TN state line is not Interstate standard yet, and the state of TN may need to perform modest upgrades between US-45E and where US-51 will tie into future I-69 north of Union City. The section south of Union City will have work needed so that is not Interstate standard.
Do you guys think they will sign it as I-69 around Union City with the promise to the Feds that the US-51/US-45E interchange will be cleaned up? That way the connection can continue from KY I-69. Or will TN give I-69 around Union City a temp number? I also wonder if the interchanges will be numbered, and if so the numbering be based off of I-155's numbering or the projected I-69 scheme from Memphis.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on February 12, 2021, 03:19:09 PM
I would sign Interstate 69 and give its exits numbers when it is completed. Although I admit it would be a little awkward to see Interstate 155 become Interstate 69 after Exit 15. The exit numbers on 69 should be based on the proposed mileage from where it enters Tennessee along with Interstate 55. Also, I would sign 69 along Interstates 55, 240, 40 and Highway 300, even though there will not be a freeway or tollway constructed between Interstate 40 in Memphis and Interstate 155 in Dyersburg anytime soon.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: kenarmy on February 12, 2021, 05:22:00 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 12, 2021, 03:19:09 PM
I would sign Interstate 69 and give its exits numbers when it is completed. Although I admit it would be a little awkward to see Interstate 155 become Interstate 69 after Exit 15. The exit numbers on 69 should be based on the proposed mileage from where it enters Tennessee along with Interstate 55. Also, I would sign 69 along Interstates 55, 240, 40 and Highway 300, even though there will not be a freeway or tollway constructed between Interstate 40 in Memphis and Interstate 155 in Dyersburg anytime soon.

I would sign it on 55 and 240 but I would have it end at the junction with 40. I think it should go at least 10 miles when it leaves the overlap, instead of only 1.5 miles to 51.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on February 12, 2021, 06:33:11 PM
Quote from: Ryctor2018 on February 12, 2021, 02:03:20 PM
Once I-69 is completed around Union City if a couple of years, how do you guys think it will be signed? The interchange at the KY-TN state line is not Interstate standard yet, and the state of TN may need to perform modest upgrades between US-45E and where US-51 will tie into future I-69 north of Union City. The section south of Union City will have work needed so that is not Interstate standard.
Do you guys think they will sign it as I-69 around Union City with the promise to the Feds that the US-51/US-45E interchange will be cleaned up? That way the connection can continue from KY I-69. Or will TN give I-69 around Union City a temp number? I also wonder if the interchanges will be numbered, and if so the numbering be based off of I-155's numbering or the projected I-69 scheme from Memphis.

Seeing as how KY has yet to sign I-69 over the southwest end of Purchase until just below Mayfield due to a substandard bowtie interchange at Wingo (apparently the rebuild is in process) in addition to the very substandard present connection between the Fulton bypass extension of that facililty and US 51 over the line in TN, it's unlikely that any signage south of the state line will be done (or it'll likely reference US 51 only, with I-69 signs covered up) until those issues are dealt with.  But once I-69 signage is in place from Union City to Dyersburg, it'll likely simply reference the I-155 transition with signage such as "I-69 ENDS/BEGIN I-155" and vice-versa somewhere north of Dyersburg, likely (initially) at the interchange with US 51 south.  Despite the suggestions to that effect in this forum, it's likely TDOT isn't even considering a formal reroute over I-155 (something that would have to be discussed/coordinated with the DOT's in MO and AR in any case).  It seems the de facto agency position is to simply not even acknowledge the gap from Dyersburg to Memphis in the field until actual plans are in place to remedy the situation.  I haven't been on US 51 in that area for years; if there are "Future I-69 Corridor" signs along the existing route, that will likely be the sole reference to the pending project for the time being.  As has been repeatedly iterated in this and related threads, TDOT doesn't seem to be in any hurry to address the I-69 gap -- something that's unlikely to change in the near term.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on February 12, 2021, 08:16:28 PM
There are "Future I-69" signs on the freeway segment between Dyersburg and Union City.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: I-39 on February 12, 2021, 10:15:32 PM
I just can't see how I-69 is going to get funded in Tennessee when there are so many other needs throughout the state.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on February 12, 2021, 11:26:33 PM
Quote from: sparker on February 12, 2021, 06:33:11 PM
Quote from: Ryctor2018 on February 12, 2021, 02:03:20 PM
Once I-69 is completed around Union City if a couple of years, how do you guys think it will be signed? The interchange at the KY-TN state line is not Interstate standard yet, and the state of TN may need to perform modest upgrades between US-45E and where US-51 will tie into future I-69 north of Union City. The section south of Union City will have work needed so that is not Interstate standard.
Do you guys think they will sign it as I-69 around Union City with the promise to the Feds that the US-51/US-45E interchange will be cleaned up? That way the connection can continue from KY I-69. Or will TN give I-69 around Union City a temp number? I also wonder if the interchanges will be numbered, and if so the numbering be based off of I-155's numbering or the projected I-69 scheme from Memphis.

Seeing as how KY has yet to sign I-69 over the southwest end of Purchase until just below Mayfield due to a substandard bowtie interchange at Wingo (apparently the rebuild is in process) in addition to the very substandard present connection between the Fulton bypass extension of that facililty and US 51 over the line in TN, it's unlikely that any signage south of the state line will be done (or it'll likely reference US 51 only, with I-69 signs covered up) until those issues are dealt with.  But once I-69 signage is in place from Union City to Dyersburg, it'll likely simply reference the I-155 transition with signage such as "I-69 ENDS/BEGIN I-155" and vice-versa somewhere north of Dyersburg, likely (initially) at the interchange with US 51 south.  Despite the suggestions to that effect in this forum, it's likely TDOT isn't even considering a formal reroute over I-155 (something that would have to be discussed/coordinated with the DOT's in MO and AR in any case).  It seems the de facto agency position is to simply not even acknowledge the gap from Dyersburg to Memphis in the field until actual plans are in place to remedy the situation.  I haven't been on US 51 in that area for years; if there are "Future I-69 Corridor" signs along the existing route, that will likely be the sole reference to the pending project for the time being.  As has been repeatedly iterated in this and related threads, TDOT doesn't seem to be in any hurry to address the I-69 gap -- something that's unlikely to change in the near term.

The signage plans for the Union City bypass show it being signed as I-69 and only I-69.   There is no other number referenced.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on February 13, 2021, 04:19:35 AM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on February 12, 2021, 11:26:33 PM
Quote from: sparker on February 12, 2021, 06:33:11 PM
Quote from: Ryctor2018 on February 12, 2021, 02:03:20 PM
Once I-69 is completed around Union City if a couple of years, how do you guys think it will be signed? The interchange at the KY-TN state line is not Interstate standard yet, and the state of TN may need to perform modest upgrades between US-45E and where US-51 will tie into future I-69 north of Union City. The section south of Union City will have work needed so that is not Interstate standard.
Do you guys think they will sign it as I-69 around Union City with the promise to the Feds that the US-51/US-45E interchange will be cleaned up? That way the connection can continue from KY I-69. Or will TN give I-69 around Union City a temp number? I also wonder if the interchanges will be numbered, and if so the numbering be based off of I-155's numbering or the projected I-69 scheme from Memphis.

Seeing as how KY has yet to sign I-69 over the southwest end of Purchase until just below Mayfield due to a substandard bowtie interchange at Wingo (apparently the rebuild is in process) in addition to the very substandard present connection between the Fulton bypass extension of that facililty and US 51 over the line in TN, it's unlikely that any signage south of the state line will be done (or it'll likely reference US 51 only, with I-69 signs covered up) until those issues are dealt with.  But once I-69 signage is in place from Union City to Dyersburg, it'll likely simply reference the I-155 transition with signage such as "I-69 ENDS/BEGIN I-155" and vice-versa somewhere north of Dyersburg, likely (initially) at the interchange with US 51 south.  Despite the suggestions to that effect in this forum, it's likely TDOT isn't even considering a formal reroute over I-155 (something that would have to be discussed/coordinated with the DOT's in MO and AR in any case).  It seems the de facto agency position is to simply not even acknowledge the gap from Dyersburg to Memphis in the field until actual plans are in place to remedy the situation.  I haven't been on US 51 in that area for years; if there are "Future I-69 Corridor" signs along the existing route, that will likely be the sole reference to the pending project for the time being.  As has been repeatedly iterated in this and related threads, TDOT doesn't seem to be in any hurry to address the I-69 gap -- something that's unlikely to change in the near term.

The signage plans for the Union City bypass show it being signed as I-69 and only I-69.   There is no other number referenced.

Interesting -- TN plans to sign I-69 prior to a northern connection being completed, but they're hesitant about signing it over I-55 and I-240 in Memphis.  But the info here suggests that US 51 will be retained on its present alignment on the existing Union City bypass rather than rerouted onto the I-69 freeway.  That's more or less in keeping with TN's longstanding history of new alignments for its Interstate routes with the original highway retained largely intact; the existing Dyersburg-Union City route notwithstanding (unless TDOT elects, once I-69 overtakes that freeway, to relocate US 51 to its original alignment through Newbern and Obion).

Quote from: hbelkins on February 12, 2021, 08:16:28 PM
There are "Future I-69" signs on the freeway segment between Dyersburg and Union City.

Actually, I was wondering if such signs are also located along US 51 between Memphis and Dyersburg -- the locale of the "gap" that will likely continue for some time to come. 
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: rte66man on February 13, 2021, 08:41:19 PM
Quote from: sparker on February 13, 2021, 04:19:35 AM
^^^^^^^^^
Interesting -- TN plans to sign I-69 prior to a northern connection being completed, but they're hesitant about signing it over I-55 and I-240 in Memphis.  But the info here suggests that US 51 will be retained on its present alignment on the existing Union City bypass rather than rerouted onto the I-69 freeway.  That's more or less in keeping with TN's longstanding history of new alignments for its Interstate routes with the original highway retained largely intact; the existing Dyersburg-Union City route notwithstanding (unless TDOT elects, once I-69 overtakes that freeway, to relocate US 51 to its original alignment through Newbern and Obion).

Can't happen. The 1929 bridge across the Obion River between Trimble and Obion is closed permanently. The old highway between the 2 is barely maintained.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/7880/46402181582_a05e4b366c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2dGpiXu)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/7891/31512976707_f07ffb3c7f.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Q1Gf5B)
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on February 14, 2021, 10:29:23 PM
Quote from: rte66man on February 13, 2021, 08:41:19 PM
Quote from: sparker on February 13, 2021, 04:19:35 AM
^^^^^^^^^
Interesting -- TN plans to sign I-69 prior to a northern connection being completed, but they're hesitant about signing it over I-55 and I-240 in Memphis.  But the info here suggests that US 51 will be retained on its present alignment on the existing Union City bypass rather than rerouted onto the I-69 freeway.  That's more or less in keeping with TN's longstanding history of new alignments for its Interstate routes with the original highway retained largely intact; the existing Dyersburg-Union City route notwithstanding (unless TDOT elects, once I-69 overtakes that freeway, to relocate US 51 to its original alignment through Newbern and Obion).

Can't happen. The 1929 bridge across the Obion River between Trimble and Obion is closed permanently. The old highway between the 2 is barely maintained.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/7880/46402181582_a05e4b366c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2dGpiXu)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/7891/31512976707_f07ffb3c7f.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Q1Gf5B)

Then that would obviously be an exception to the "normal" within TN.  Have revised Interstate signage plans for the extant freeway segment northeast of Dyersburg been released as of yet? -- those would likely indicate a co-signage of US 51 alongside I-69 for at least the interrupted segment shown above.  On a historical note -- the style of concrete railings shown in the pictures looks very much like those on CA bridges of similar vintage, particularly those along US 101 in the far northwest part of the state (many of which were destroyed or damaged in the '64-'65 floods).   
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on February 15, 2021, 03:36:47 PM
In some states, when an I-route replaces a 4 lane US route, the DOT will let the old US route degrade and then when it comes up for an update, they will reorganize it and pave it as just a 2 lane highway.  They either rip up the old ROW and bridges or let them fall apart naturally alongside the one in use.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on February 15, 2021, 09:02:34 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on February 15, 2021, 03:36:47 PM
In some states, when an I-route replaces a 4 lane US route, the DOT will let the old US route degrade and then when it comes up for an update, they will reorganize it and pave it as just a 2 lane highway.  They either rip up the old ROW and bridges or let them fall apart naturally alongside the one in use.

Other places they'll turn the former US route over to the local jurisdiction, and they continue maintaining as a local (county or city) road. A good example of this is former US-66 through Albuquerque. The US-66 designation was removed from Central Avenue in the 1980s after I-40 was completed, and ownership of Central Avenue was transferred to the City of Albuquerque (within the city limits) and Bernalillo County (outside the city limits).
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Ryctor2018 on February 16, 2021, 02:01:15 PM
Since construction is ongoing, does anyone have access to the signage plans for I-69 around Union City? I looked on TDOT's website, but the info there hasn't been updated in years. I am especially interested in the signage plans, and the northern 69/51 interchange plans. The section around Troy is down the road so I'm not as worried about that section.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on February 17, 2021, 09:45:26 AM
Quote from: Ryctor2018 on February 16, 2021, 02:01:15 PM
Since construction is ongoing, does anyone have access to the signage plans for I-69 around Union City? I looked on TDOT's website, but the info there hasn't been updated in years. I am especially interested in the signage plans, and the northern 69/51 interchange plans. The section around Troy is down the road so I'm not as worried about that section.

The plans for the project, including signage should be here:

https://www.tn.gov/tdot/tdot-construction-division/bid-lettings/e-plans-room.html

Look under March 29, 2019 Letting

County is Obion

Project/Contract is CNT016

THE GRADING, DRAINAGE, CONSTRUCTION OF BRIDGES AND PAVING ON FUTURE I-69 FROM WEST OF S.R. 21 TO U.S. 51 (S.R. 3)

I downloaded them some time ago but have not found the exact link on that site I used to get them

It's a 950 page pdf document with the complete plans including signage (pgs 302 to 360)

At the TN 21 interchange, On Tn 21 it will be marked as I-69 South - Dyersburg and I-69 North - Fulton.  On I-69 it will be marked as TN 21 - Union City

At the US 51 interchange it will be marked as US 51 South Union City

Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Avalanchez71 on February 26, 2021, 09:30:13 AM
This monstrosity of a boondoggle pork barrel interstate should have been signed from I-55 to I-155 in lieu of building up an already sufficient US 51.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: wdcrft63 on February 26, 2021, 06:13:26 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on February 26, 2021, 09:30:13 AM
This monstrosity of a boondoggle pork barrel interstate should have been signed from I-55 to I-155 in lieu of building up an already sufficient US 51.

Many forum contributors agree with you, but Union City is north of I-155; the Union City bypass would be needed even if your suggestion were adopted.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Ryctor2018 on February 26, 2021, 09:34:07 PM
For the TN portion of I-69, the Union City bypass, a Troy bypass and fixing the KY/TN state line interchange is all that's needed. Once those three are done, I-69 would only need minor work to sign the route. I imagine the state may sign the freeway by 2025 or so.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on February 27, 2021, 06:47:36 PM
Question to those who may have knowledge of this:  has the connection at Fulton, KY (which, of course, would be a project initiated by KDOT) been finalized or even let at this point?  From what I've gleaned, the modification of the Wingo "bowtie" should be completed by the end of this year (COVID delays notwithstanding), so the connection to the TN section of I-69 should be the final project involving KY (except, of course, the Ohio River bridge/Henderson bypass).
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on February 27, 2021, 08:16:31 PM
Quote from: sparker on February 27, 2021, 06:47:36 PM
Question to those who may have knowledge of this:  has the connection at Fulton, KY (which, of course, would be a project initiated by KDOT) been finalized or even let at this point?  From what I've gleaned, the modification of the Wingo "bowtie" should be completed by the end of this year (COVID delays notwithstanding), so the connection to the TN section of I-69 should be the final project involving KY (except, of course, the Ohio River bridge/Henderson bypass).

Actually, I think the work at Fulton is a Tennessee project, since the US 51/45/45E/45W interchange that needs work is entirely south of the state line.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on February 27, 2021, 08:42:30 PM
How much traffic uses existing US 51 between Memphis and Dyersburg? Could another reason for putting off constructing 69 between those two cities be not just lack of funding and environmental opposition, but that existing US 51 is sufficient to handle existing and future traffic demands?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Brooks on February 27, 2021, 11:59:04 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 27, 2021, 08:42:30 PM
How much traffic uses existing US 51 between Memphis and Dyersburg? Could another reason for putting off constructing 69 between those two cities be not just lack of funding and environmental opposition, but that existing US 51 is sufficient to handle existing and future traffic demands?
It's mostly fine for the existing traffic, but when 69 is complete from Indianapolis to Dyersburg that will probably be a different story.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: SkyPesos on February 28, 2021, 12:09:55 AM
Quote from: Brooks on February 27, 2021, 11:59:04 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 27, 2021, 08:42:30 PM
How much traffic uses existing US 51 between Memphis and Dyersburg? Could another reason for putting off constructing 69 between those two cities be not just lack of funding and environmental opposition, but that existing US 51 is sufficient to handle existing and future traffic demands?
It’s mostly fine for the existing traffic, but when 69 is complete from Indianapolis to Dyersburg that will probably be a different story.
Indianapolis-Texas traffic will probably stick to I-57. Just checked that the distance between Little Rock and Indianapolis using I-40/I-55/I-57/I-70 vs I-40/US 51/I-69, and the former is shorter by a bit (584 mi vs 595 mi), and will be even more viable after I-57 gets extended to Little Rock. For Memphis and cities on I-55 south of there, it can go either way.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: zzcarp on February 28, 2021, 12:12:12 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 27, 2021, 08:16:31 PM
Quote from: sparker on February 27, 2021, 06:47:36 PM
Question to those who may have knowledge of this:  has the connection at Fulton, KY (which, of course, would be a project initiated by KDOT) been finalized or even let at this point?  From what I've gleaned, the modification of the Wingo "bowtie" should be completed by the end of this year (COVID delays notwithstanding), so the connection to the TN section of I-69 should be the final project involving KY (except, of course, the Ohio River bridge/Henderson bypass).

Actually, I think the work at Fulton is a Tennessee project, since the US 51/45/45E/45W interchange that needs work is entirely south of the state line.

There was this general map from the forum several years ago. I believe they chose Alternative 2 but I don't know what the status of the EIS or design is now.

Quote from: Grzrd on May 08, 2017, 03:07:28 PM
Quote from: mvak36 on May 08, 2017, 11:08:38 AM
I emailed TDOT a couple of weeks ago after the IMPROVE Act passed. I asked them about when they were going to list the projects they will be doing for their 3 year plan and also about the I-69 SIU 7. Here's the reply I got.
Quote
.... 6)     From Rogers Rd in Kentucky to SR 3 (US 45 W & US 51) in Obion County (5.0 miles)–this section is currently in the Environmental Phase with Preliminary Engineering  phase to follow.

I can't tell if they chose Alternative 1 or Alternative 2 from the December, 2015 meeting (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3841.msg2146133#msg2146133):

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_25_05_16_11_54_38.png)

I guess they are still trying to figure it out in the environmental phase.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on March 01, 2021, 11:11:03 AM
Quote from: zzcarp on February 28, 2021, 12:12:12 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 27, 2021, 08:16:31 PM
Quote from: sparker on February 27, 2021, 06:47:36 PM
Question to those who may have knowledge of this:  has the connection at Fulton, KY (which, of course, would be a project initiated by KDOT) been finalized or even let at this point?  From what I've gleaned, the modification of the Wingo "bowtie" should be completed by the end of this year (COVID delays notwithstanding), so the connection to the TN section of I-69 should be the final project involving KY (except, of course, the Ohio River bridge/Henderson bypass).

Actually, I think the work at Fulton is a Tennessee project, since the US 51/45/45E/45W interchange that needs work is entirely south of the state line.

There was this general map from the forum several years ago. I believe they chose Alternative 2 but I don't know what the status of the EIS or design is now.

Quote from: Grzrd on May 08, 2017, 03:07:28 PM
Quote from: mvak36 on May 08, 2017, 11:08:38 AM
I emailed TDOT a couple of weeks ago after the IMPROVE Act passed. I asked them about when they were going to list the projects they will be doing for their 3 year plan and also about the I-69 SIU 7. Here's the reply I got.
Quote
.... 6)     From Rogers Rd in Kentucky to SR 3 (US 45 W & US 51) in Obion County (5.0 miles)–this section is currently in the Environmental Phase with Preliminary Engineering  phase to follow.

I can't tell if they chose Alternative 1 or Alternative 2 from the December, 2015 meeting (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3841.msg2146133#msg2146133):

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/1615_25_05_16_11_54_38.png)

I guess they are still trying to figure it out in the environmental phase.

Yes, TDOT is the lead agency on the Fulton/South Fulton project. KYTC is a supporting agency for portions of the project that are on the Kentucky side of the state line.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Avalanchez71 on March 01, 2021, 01:25:40 PM
I have been TN SSR 214 and the traffic isn't that bad on there.  Way too much over build.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on March 01, 2021, 02:46:36 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on March 01, 2021, 01:25:40 PM
I have been TN SSR 214 and the traffic isn't that bad on there.  Way too much over build.

Why don't they just reconfigure the interchange at the state line so that I-69 traffic goes straight through, and other traffic exits the mainline, instead of complete rerouting the highway around Fulton/South Fulton?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: ITB on March 02, 2021, 04:58:24 AM
Quote from: I-39 on February 12, 2021, 10:15:32 PM
I just can't see how I-69 is going to get funded in Tennessee when there are so many other needs throughout the state.

A lot of federal money soon will be flowing to prop up the economy. And a good chunk will be for infrastructure projects. Likely TDOT will hover up a good amount. Also, word from Washington, D.C. is that earmarks will be returning. If so, a lot of road and bridge projects around the country may get funding that way, allowing them to move forward. Wouldn't surprise me at all if TDOT tried to get some funding for its I-69 segments through earmarks. Any Tennessee legislators on the House appropriations committee?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on March 02, 2021, 10:13:43 AM
Quote from: ITB on March 02, 2021, 04:58:24 AM
Quote from: I-39 on February 12, 2021, 10:15:32 PM
I just can't see how I-69 is going to get funded in Tennessee when there are so many other needs throughout the state.

A lot of federal money soon will be flowing to prop up the economy. And a good chunk will be for infrastructure projects. Likely TDOT will hover up a good amount. Also, word from Washington, D.C. is that earmarks will be returning. If so, a lot of road and bridge projects around the country may get funding that way, allowing them to move forward. Wouldn't surprise me at all if TDOT tried to get some funding for its I-69 segments through earmarks. Any Tennessee legislators on the House appropriations committee?

https://appropriations.house.gov/about/membership (https://appropriations.house.gov/about/membership)

Charles Joseph Fleischmann is an American politician who has been the U.S. Representative for Tennessee's 3rd congressional district since 2011. The district is based in Chattanooga and includes a large swath of East Tennessee, including Oak Ridge. He is Republican.

Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on March 02, 2021, 10:23:30 AM
TennDOT project list for highways in Region 4:

https://www.tn.gov/tdot/projects/region-4.html (https://www.tn.gov/tdot/projects/region-4.html)

You won't find a priority list for specific items, at least not on this website that I can find.

Since priorities are very political, they tend to not publish them. If anyone can find a specific list of needs by priority, please post.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on March 03, 2021, 08:57:39 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on March 02, 2021, 10:23:30 AM
TennDOT project list for highways in Region 4:

https://www.tn.gov/tdot/projects/region-4.html (https://www.tn.gov/tdot/projects/region-4.html)

You won't find a priority list for specific items, at least not on this website that I can find.

Since priorities are very political, they tend to not publish them. If anyone can find a specific list of needs by priority, please post.

Unfortunately that page is way out of date, it hasn't been updated in at least 5 years going by the I-69 segment 7 info
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Ryctor2018 on June 04, 2021, 11:46:49 AM
BigRigSteve made a trip on Jun 3, 2021 from Tennessee to Indiana for a delivery. The funny thing is most of his route follows I-69/future I-69 from Covington, TN to the Evansville area, so you can ride along with him on the trip to see how the route would work as a completed Interstate from Memphis to points north. Some things I noticed as I skipped thru the video:

Around the 4:07:00 mark is the south interchange with future I-69/US-51 in Union City. The interchange looks complete as Steve drives through it. All that is needed are signage it looks like.

At about the 4:22:00 mark is the north interchange with future I-69/US-51 near South Fulton. You can see the piers and interchange work in the picture, off to the northwest (left in the video) driving up US-51/US-45W.

A little bit later, Steve crosses into Kentucky. Nothing has happened yet at this location. Neither has work began at the Wingo interchange on the Purchase Pkwy at Exit 14. I read somewhere work was supposed to start this year, so maybe later in the year, or maybe next year.

I also saw online that more signage would be added to the US-45 Bypass exit (Exit 21) on I-69. It seems motorist were following old maps or GPS routes, but KYTC changed the geometry of this interchange so people were getting lost.

I'll skim the rest of the video as Steve drives north (I think he was making a delivery in Bloomington or near Indianapolis), so he may drive thru the I-69 Section 6 construction). I may post in the Midwest forum for that. I do plan to drive down to the Memphis area from Chicagoland, so I may take a peek around Union City. I'll snap some pics if I can.

Sorry, forgot to added the link to BigRigTravels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8bETXsno2A&t=22575s
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on June 05, 2021, 04:08:21 PM
For those of you who don't want to see the entire trip, but just where US-51 meets the construction of I-69 outside Union City, you can go to this link:

https://youtu.be/U8bETXsno2A?t=14803 (https://youtu.be/U8bETXsno2A?t=14803)

Honestly, from Dyersburg to south of Troy, the road is interstate standards. It's when you get to Troy and to Union City, it falls back to 1960's style with local access.

If you don't want to see his driving through Union City, you can pick up the construction on the north side of town here:

https://youtu.be/U8bETXsno2A?t=15694 (https://youtu.be/U8bETXsno2A?t=15694)

You will see earthworks in progress including several pylons being poured or set up.

Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: ilpt4u on June 06, 2021, 02:34:16 PM
Watched the thru Union City part. Are more trucks using the US 51/Future I-69 route, with the I-40 bridge closure, I wonder? Stay on the east side of the Mississippi to get to Memphis?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: ITB on June 06, 2021, 03:56:06 PM

Didn't see this mentioned yet. The paving contract for Section 3 of SIU 7 in Obion County was let May 7, 2021, and was awarded to Ford Construction on a bid of $31,959,341.07. The project length is 6.420 miles, with a stipulated completion time on or before June 15, 2023.

The bid results of the May 7 lettings can be found here (https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/construction/2021_bid_lettings/may_7_2021_letting/20210507_ContractAwards.pdf), and the summary of the paving contract  here. (https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/construction/2021_bid_lettings/may_7_2021_letting/20210507_SummaryOfBids.pdf)

On April 27, 2021, TDOT released its proposed Comprehensive Multimodal Program for FY 2022—2024. That document can be found here. (https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/programdevelopment/Final%20TDOT%20FY%2022-24%20Comprehensive%20Multimodal%20Program%204-27-21.pdf) There are no I-69 projects listed.

Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on June 06, 2021, 05:34:42 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on June 06, 2021, 02:34:16 PM
Watched the thru Union City part. Are more trucks using the US 51/Future I-69 route, with the I-40 bridge closure, I wonder? Stay on the east side of the Mississippi to get to Memphis?

That is a good point. I did notice a large number of trucks using US-51 in this video.

I always say I-69 can provide resiliency, well here is the perfect example.

A major bridge goes out and commerce has to retask their routes.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on June 07, 2021, 03:15:23 AM
Quote from: edwaleni on June 06, 2021, 05:34:42 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on June 06, 2021, 02:34:16 PM
Watched the thru Union City part. Are more trucks using the US 51/Future I-69 route, with the I-40 bridge closure, I wonder? Stay on the east side of the Mississippi to get to Memphis?

That is a good point. I did notice a large number of trucks using US-51 in this video.

I always say I-69 can provide resiliency, well here is the perfect example.

A major bridge goes out and commerce has to retask their routes.

I ended up watching most of the video; a sizeable number of trucks heading north on US 51 seemed to be heading to WB I-155 as per the Dyersburg portion; best guess is a lot of Memphis-originating commercial traffic decided to head for northward I-55 that way to avoid congestion on the M & A bridge during the I-40 shutdown.  Good video -- liked seeing the portion of I-69 over the former Kentucky Parkways, including the new direct transition at Nortonville.   
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Avalanchez71 on June 07, 2021, 01:48:46 PM
So how was the truck traffic along here?  Was the road clogged?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sprjus4 on June 07, 2021, 01:57:51 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on June 07, 2021, 01:48:46 PM
So how was the truck traffic along here?  Was the road clogged?
Through all the towns and the stop-and-go, traffic lights, turning left to continue on the route, etc., yes, yes it was.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on June 07, 2021, 05:54:46 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on June 07, 2021, 01:57:51 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on June 07, 2021, 01:48:46 PM
So how was the truck traffic along here?  Was the road clogged?
Through all the towns and the stop-and-go, traffic lights, turning left to continue on the route, etc., yes, yes it was.

It was particularly clogged through Dyersburg; driver Steve chose the "path of least resistance" and left the US 51 original bypass (by now morphed into a commercial artery) along TN 78 to get to I-155.  That movement was quite packed; both left turn lanes were filled up (not much of a change since I came through here in the '90's).  But except for the fact that the signals weren't terribly well coordinated, it looked to be more annoying than problematic.  The worst "jam" on the whole trip was on the approach to the US 41 Ohio River bridge at Henderson, KY, caused by a broken-down tour bus blocking the right lane.   All in all a relatively smooth trip (but his website mentioned delivery issues the next day, which probably negated the relatively smooth drive!). 
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Ryctor2018 on June 07, 2021, 07:47:55 PM
Quote from: ITB on June 06, 2021, 03:56:06 PM

Didn't see this mentioned yet. The paving contract for Section 3 of SIU 7 in Obion County was let May 7, 2021, and was awarded to Ford Construction on a bid of $31,959,341.07. The project length is 6.420 miles, with a stipulated completion time on or before June 15, 2023.

The bid results of the May 7 lettings can be found here (https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/construction/2021_bid_lettings/may_7_2021_letting/20210507_ContractAwards.pdf), and the summary of the paving contract  here. (https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/construction/2021_bid_lettings/may_7_2021_letting/20210507_SummaryOfBids.pdf)

On April 27, 2021, TDOT released its proposed Comprehensive Multimodal Program for FY 2022—2024. That document can be found here. (https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/programdevelopment/Final%20TDOT%20FY%2022-24%20Comprehensive%20Multimodal%20Program%204-27-21.pdf) There are no I-69 projects listed.

The satellite images are dated in this area. I wonder how far south of the future I-69/US-51 south interchange is the freeway graded. Most of the by-pass needs paving as the other construction was completed earlier. The Troy, TN bypass is not long. But if this in not in the new lettings, then completing I-69 in northern Tenn will have the can kicked further down the road.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: ITB on June 07, 2021, 10:52:34 PM
Quote from: Ryctor2018 on June 07, 2021, 07:47:55 PM
Quote from: ITB on June 06, 2021, 03:56:06 PM

Didn't see this mentioned yet. The paving contract for Section 3 of SIU 7 in Obion County was let May 7, 2021, and was awarded to Ford Construction on a bid of $31,959,341.07. The project length is 6.420 miles, with a stipulated completion time on or before June 15, 2023.

The bid results of the May 7 lettings can be found here (https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/construction/2021_bid_lettings/may_7_2021_letting/20210507_ContractAwards.pdf), and the summary of the paving contract  here. (https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/construction/2021_bid_lettings/may_7_2021_letting/20210507_SummaryOfBids.pdf)

On April 27, 2021, TDOT released its proposed Comprehensive Multimodal Program for FY 2022–2024. That document can be found here. (https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/programdevelopment/Final%20TDOT%20FY%2022-24%20Comprehensive%20Multimodal%20Program%204-27-21.pdf) There are no I-69 projects listed.

The satellite images are dated in this area. I wonder how far south of the future I-69/US-51 south interchange is the freeway graded. Most of the by-pass needs paving as the other construction was completed earlier. The Troy, TN bypass is not long. But if this in not in the new lettings, then completing I-69 in northern Tenn will have the can kicked further down the road.

Basically, the small amount of grading and earth work completed south of the future I-69/US 51 south interchange is for the interchange itself, plus a little stub. That is the point where Section 3 begins, and Section 2 ends. At this time, no construction work has been undertaken on either Section 2 or Section 1, which make up the Troy Bypass. Both sections are in limbo, awaiting funds to move forward. Nothing pertaining to either section is found listed in TDOT's Comprehensive Multimodal Program for FY 2022–2024, which was released April 27, 2021. So it's probably going to be 2025 at the earliest before anything happens. This may change, however, if the infrastructure bill is passed in Washington, providing a significant infusion of funds to Tennessee and TDOT.

With the letting of the paving contract for Section 3, construction of the Union City bypass, comprised of Sections 3 and 4, is scheduled to complete by June 15, 2023. As for Section 5, which runs from the Union City bypass to the state line at Fulton, Kentucky, preliminary engineering is underway. However, no construction timeline has been released for that section, and it, too, was not mentioned in the Comprehensive Multimodal Program for FY 2022–2024.

Section 5 likely will be the next section constructed, followed by Sections 2 and 1. The timeline of these projects will depend largely on what happens in Washington with the infrastructure bill.

Edit: spelling and grammar
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: triplemultiplex on June 09, 2021, 10:28:00 PM
I got some material from TNDOT at work and for the first time it include a shapefile object for I-69 in Obion County:
(https://triplemultiplex.files.wordpress.com/2021/06/lol.jpg)

Decidedly not open yet and I find it sadly hilarious it doesn't even include the entire portion that has been under construction for like 12 years now. 

It is so frustrating to see this one project drag on for so goddamn long in a state that generally keeps pretty good care of its roads.  They might be congested as shit, but at least they are smooth.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on June 10, 2021, 03:13:21 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on June 09, 2021, 10:28:00 PM
I got some material from TNDOT at work and for the first time it include a shapefile object for I-69 in Obion County:
(https://triplemultiplex.files.wordpress.com/2021/06/lol.jpg)

Decidedly not open yet and I find it sadly hilarious it doesn't even include the entire portion that has been under construction for like 12 years now. 

It is so frustrating to see this one project drag on for so goddamn long in a state that generally keeps pretty good care of its roads.  They might be congested as shit, but at least they are smooth.

Something tells me TNDOT and its legislative/administrative handlers just doesn't give a shit about the I-69 corridor; likely viewed as something foisted upon them by out-of-state congressional delegations (specifically IN & TX).  Added to that the fact that the major city served here is Memphis, seemingly forever out of favor with the crowd running things in Nashville, and there's a ready-made recipe for procrastination, can-down-road kicking, and just plain malignant ignorance.  Aside from a few construction sites up on US 51, the only thing the corridor has to show in terms of recent activity is the tiny section of I-269 from TN 385 to the MS state line (OK, and the posting of I-269 signage north to I-40; big whoop!).  All that does is let truck traffic do what Nashville has done for decades and avoid dealing with Memphis!  OK, I'll be the first to concede that TN roads are in better than average condition, including the Interstates, just about all of which (with the possible exception of I-26) host gobs of commercial truck traffic; so maybe maintenance has been prioritized over new construction.  But really -- the above post may be hitting the nail on the head, and TNDOT is willing to take a decidedly "leisurely" approach to their sole new Interstate corridor -- or maybe the folks in Nashville just want to make sure that traffic from Memphis northeast continues to employ the 40/65 corridor, benefiting on-road business in their greater metro area.  But regardless of the rationale at work here, there doesn't seem to be an opening for picking up the pace, as championing I-69 appears to be a thankless task within this state.       
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Avalanchez71 on June 10, 2021, 07:55:04 AM
The political climate is cold to I-69.  There doesn't seem to be much excitement to the corridor.  The powers to be want tourism and commerce and they don't see I-69 as a catalyst.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on June 10, 2021, 11:35:40 AM
I never really understood the TN 22 freeway and why it needed to be built to interstate standards.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sprjus4 on June 10, 2021, 11:40:40 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 10, 2021, 11:35:40 AM
I never really understood the TN 22 freeway and why it needed to be built to interstate standards.
Likely had some political motivation, as opposed to traditional four lane widening on existing alignment or relocation on new alignment but with intersections, either that, or some sort of safety concern.

A segment of US-13 and NC-11 between Winton and Ahoskie, NC is being proposed to be relocated on new alignment, and built to full interstate standards as opposed to at-grade for safety reasons, though of course, that could just be the excuse to get the freeway. US-13 to the north and NC-11 to the south of the project are merely being proposed / recently built as widened non-limited-access divided highways.

IMO, the traffic volumes on that segment of US-13 / NC-11 and that routes' main usage as a corridor connecting towns as opposed to major cities, don't necessarily warrant a full freeway design.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on June 10, 2021, 04:00:03 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 10, 2021, 11:35:40 AM
I never really understood the TN 22 freeway and why it needed to be built to interstate standards.

On one of my previous trips to the area I got into a conversation with someone about that very route; that person thought that it had something to do with the UT branch at Martin and a push by university backers for a safer route to Union City and US 51.  But he also had heard that there was at one time a push to reconstruct all of TN 22 to expressway and/or freeway standards all the way down to I-40.  Seeing as how that stretch is now a divided highway, I'd venture that there would be some measure of truth to each of those theories. 
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Avalanchez71 on June 10, 2021, 04:04:55 PM
Quote from: sparker on June 10, 2021, 04:00:03 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 10, 2021, 11:35:40 AM
I never really understood the TN 22 freeway and why it needed to be built to interstate standards.

On one of my previous trips to the area I got into a conversation with someone about that very route; that person thought that it had something to do with the UT branch at Martin and a push by university backers for a safer route to Union City and US 51.  But he also had heard that there was at one time a push to reconstruct all of TN 22 to expressway and/or freeway standards all the way down to I-40.  Seeing as how that stretch is now a divided highway, I'd venture that there would be some measure of truth to each of those theories.

Former TN Governor Ned Ray McWherter(D) wanted a nice highway built from his place to Nashville.  He used the auspices of UTM as a scapegoat to get it done. 
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on June 10, 2021, 04:42:46 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on June 10, 2021, 04:04:55 PM
Quote from: sparker on June 10, 2021, 04:00:03 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 10, 2021, 11:35:40 AM
I never really understood the TN 22 freeway and why it needed to be built to interstate standards.

On one of my previous trips to the area I got into a conversation with someone about that very route; that person thought that it had something to do with the UT branch at Martin and a push by university backers for a safer route to Union City and US 51.  But he also had heard that there was at one time a push to reconstruct all of TN 22 to expressway and/or freeway standards all the way down to I-40.  Seeing as how that stretch is now a divided highway, I'd venture that there would be some measure of truth to each of those theories.

Former TN Governor Ned Ray McWherter(D) wanted a nice highway built from his place to Nashville.  He used the auspices of UTM as a scapegoat to get it done. 

OK, fine.....I guess.  I don't live there, so specific behind-the-scenes internal TN machinations aren't in my wheelhouse. 
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sprjus4 on June 10, 2021, 04:53:07 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on June 10, 2021, 04:04:55 PM
Quote from: sparker on June 10, 2021, 04:00:03 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 10, 2021, 11:35:40 AM
I never really understood the TN 22 freeway and why it needed to be built to interstate standards.

On one of my previous trips to the area I got into a conversation with someone about that very route; that person thought that it had something to do with the UT branch at Martin and a push by university backers for a safer route to Union City and US 51.  But he also had heard that there was at one time a push to reconstruct all of TN 22 to expressway and/or freeway standards all the way down to I-40.  Seeing as how that stretch is now a divided highway, I'd venture that there would be some measure of truth to each of those theories.

Former TN Governor Ned Ray McWherter(D) wanted a nice highway built from his place to Nashville.  He used the auspices of UTM as a scapegoat to get it done.
But it was only built as a freeway out to Martin. The remainder is only a four lane divided highway, which IMO, is appropriate for connecting those towns into the interstate system. TN-22 doesn't take on the role of connecting any major cities.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on June 10, 2021, 05:22:29 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on June 10, 2021, 04:53:07 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on June 10, 2021, 04:04:55 PM
Quote from: sparker on June 10, 2021, 04:00:03 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 10, 2021, 11:35:40 AM
I never really understood the TN 22 freeway and why it needed to be built to interstate standards.

On one of my previous trips to the area I got into a conversation with someone about that very route; that person thought that it had something to do with the UT branch at Martin and a push by university backers for a safer route to Union City and US 51.  But he also had heard that there was at one time a push to reconstruct all of TN 22 to expressway and/or freeway standards all the way down to I-40.  Seeing as how that stretch is now a divided highway, I'd venture that there would be some measure of truth to each of those theories.

Former TN Governor Ned Ray McWherter(D) wanted a nice highway built from his place to Nashville.  He used the auspices of UTM as a scapegoat to get it done.
But it was only built as a freeway out to Martin. The remainder is only a four lane divided highway, which IMO, is appropriate for connecting those towns into the interstate system. TN-22 doesn't take on the role of connecting any major cities.

Not to veer too far onto the shoulder, but TnDOT will be making changes to TN-22/TN-21 because its the main drag to the new Port of Cates Landing on the Mississippi. They will want to tie the port to I-69 for the trucks. They are currently providing funding to get 1 or 2 railroads to service the port.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on June 10, 2021, 05:33:07 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on June 10, 2021, 04:53:07 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on June 10, 2021, 04:04:55 PM
Quote from: sparker on June 10, 2021, 04:00:03 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 10, 2021, 11:35:40 AM
I never really understood the TN 22 freeway and why it needed to be built to interstate standards.

On one of my previous trips to the area I got into a conversation with someone about that very route; that person thought that it had something to do with the UT branch at Martin and a push by university backers for a safer route to Union City and US 51.  But he also had heard that there was at one time a push to reconstruct all of TN 22 to expressway and/or freeway standards all the way down to I-40.  Seeing as how that stretch is now a divided highway, I'd venture that there would be some measure of truth to each of those theories.

Former TN Governor Ned Ray McWherter(D) wanted a nice highway built from his place to Nashville.  He used the auspices of UTM as a scapegoat to get it done.
But it was only built as a freeway out to Martin. The remainder is only a four lane divided highway, which IMO, is appropriate for connecting those towns into the interstate system. TN-22 doesn't take on the role of connecting any major cities.

I'll bet the freeway section was built precisely for the reasons my source cited (UTM issues).  As far as the remainder is concerned -- out of curiosity I just did a GE scan of the route down to I-40, and if former Gov. McWherter's idea of a "nice road" from Union City/Martin to the fastest way to get to Nashville, I-40, is mostly a 5-lane facility interspersed with sections of twinned original highway (likely configured to maintain full private access), then he got his wish.  Probably more than adequate for the traffic base served.

Quote from: edwaleni on June 10, 2021, 05:22:29 PM
Not to veer too far onto the shoulder, but TnDOT will be making changes to TN-22/TN-21 because its the main drag to the new Port of Cates Landing on the Mississippi. They will want to tie the port to I-69 for the trucks. They are currently providing funding to get 1 or 2 railroads to service the port.

If the object of the upgrades described above (TN 21/22) is to connect the river port with I-69, that certainly doesn't involve the freeway or multilane sections of TN 22 east of 69; those would be confined to the west of the Interstate construction, and would likely involve at most a new interchange or a revision of existing plans. 
Title: I-69 in TN
Post by: mvak36 on June 10, 2021, 05:33:11 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on June 10, 2021, 04:53:07 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on June 10, 2021, 04:04:55 PM
Quote from: sparker on June 10, 2021, 04:00:03 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 10, 2021, 11:35:40 AM
I never really understood the TN 22 freeway and why it needed to be built to interstate standards.

On one of my previous trips to the area I got into a conversation with someone about that very route; that person thought that it had something to do with the UT branch at Martin and a push by university backers for a safer route to Union City and US 51.  But he also had heard that there was at one time a push to reconstruct all of TN 22 to expressway and/or freeway standards all the way down to I-40.  Seeing as how that stretch is now a divided highway, I'd venture that there would be some measure of truth to each of those theories.

Former TN Governor Ned Ray McWherter(D) wanted a nice highway built from his place to Nashville.  He used the auspices of UTM as a scapegoat to get it done.
But it was only built as a freeway out to Martin. The remainder is only a four lane divided highway, which IMO, is appropriate for connecting those towns into the interstate system. TN-22 doesn't take on the role of connecting any major cities.

For those people not already near either Memphis or Nashville, it seems like a good (mostly 4 lane up till Kentucky) route if someone wanted to get to I-57 from I-40. (TN-22/US-45E/US51).
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on June 10, 2021, 05:57:09 PM
Quote from: mvak36 on June 10, 2021, 05:33:11 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on June 10, 2021, 04:53:07 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on June 10, 2021, 04:04:55 PM
Quote from: sparker on June 10, 2021, 04:00:03 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 10, 2021, 11:35:40 AM
I never really understood the TN 22 freeway and why it needed to be built to interstate standards.

On one of my previous trips to the area I got into a conversation with someone about that very route; that person thought that it had something to do with the UT branch at Martin and a push by university backers for a safer route to Union City and US 51.  But he also had heard that there was at one time a push to reconstruct all of TN 22 to expressway and/or freeway standards all the way down to I-40.  Seeing as how that stretch is now a divided highway, I'd venture that there would be some measure of truth to each of those theories.

Former TN Governor Ned Ray McWherter(D) wanted a nice highway built from his place to Nashville.  He used the auspices of UTM as a scapegoat to get it done.
But it was only built as a freeway out to Martin. The remainder is only a four lane divided highway, which IMO, is appropriate for connecting those towns into the interstate system. TN-22 doesn't take on the role of connecting any major cities.

For those people not already near either Memphis or Nashville, it seems like a good (mostly 4-lane) route if someone wanted to get to I-57 from I-40. (TN-22/US-45E/US51).

The only major population base between Memphis and Nashville is Jackson; traffic from there looking to access I-57 (at least the present segment) would likely either use a direct shot north via US 45E and 51 once in KY, or, if an all-expressway/freeway route were sought, a US 412/I-155/I-55 route to Sikeston, MO.  Only residents of that sliver of land flanking the Tennessee River would likely use TN 22 for that purpose; west of there, the routings cited above would be more efficient; east of there, going up to I-24 northwest of Nashville would be the most efficient way to I-57 in IL.  In reality, it's unlikely there's much call for access from the area in question to a specific route farther north (unless someone there has an unrequited hankering for a Chicago "dog" replete with celery salt and hot peppers -- or is a die-hard fan of the Cubs or Da Bearz!). :) 
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: mvak36 on June 10, 2021, 06:07:54 PM
Quote from: sparker on June 10, 2021, 05:57:09 PM
Quote from: mvak36 on June 10, 2021, 05:33:11 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on June 10, 2021, 04:53:07 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on June 10, 2021, 04:04:55 PM
Quote from: sparker on June 10, 2021, 04:00:03 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 10, 2021, 11:35:40 AM
I never really understood the TN 22 freeway and why it needed to be built to interstate standards.

On one of my previous trips to the area I got into a conversation with someone about that very route; that person thought that it had something to do with the UT branch at Martin and a push by university backers for a safer route to Union City and US 51.  But he also had heard that there was at one time a push to reconstruct all of TN 22 to expressway and/or freeway standards all the way down to I-40.  Seeing as how that stretch is now a divided highway, I'd venture that there would be some measure of truth to each of those theories.

Former TN Governor Ned Ray McWherter(D) wanted a nice highway built from his place to Nashville.  He used the auspices of UTM as a scapegoat to get it done.
But it was only built as a freeway out to Martin. The remainder is only a four lane divided highway, which IMO, is appropriate for connecting those towns into the interstate system. TN-22 doesn't take on the role of connecting any major cities.

For those people not already near either Memphis or Nashville, it seems like a good (mostly 4-lane) route if someone wanted to get to I-57 from I-40. (TN-22/US-45E/US51).

The only major population base between Memphis and Nashville is Jackson; traffic from there looking to access I-57 (at least the present segment) would likely either use a direct shot north via US 45E and 51 once in KY, or, if an all-expressway/freeway route were sought, a US 412/I-155/I-55 route to Sikeston, MO.  Only residents of that sliver of land flanking the Tennessee River would likely use TN 22 for that purpose; west of there, the routings cited above would be more efficient; east of there, going up to I-24 northwest of Nashville would be the most efficient way to I-57 in IL.  In reality, it's unlikely there's much call for access from the area in question to a specific route farther north (unless someone there has an unrequited hankering for a Chicago "dog" replete with celery salt and hot peppers -- or is a die-hard fan of the Cubs or Da Bearz!). :)
Yeah I don't think many people would use it. It's just an  observation I made. US412, I-55, or I-24 (depending on where someone is starting from) will be more efficient routes.

It was interesting to learn that TN22 is mostly 4 lanes all the way to I-40. I only knew about the freeway part till today.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: froggie on June 11, 2021, 09:24:49 AM
22's been 4 lanes north of 40 for about 20 years now.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: triplemultiplex on June 11, 2021, 02:58:17 PM
At some point early in the I-69 strategizing, I recall TN 22 being kicked around as a speculative x69 spur to Martin.  Probably due to the freeway already existing and some more UT Martin superfans.  It was all in the same breath as other potential child routes including some of the KY parkways and the Memphis outer loop early in the process of this whole I-69 clusterfart coming together in the 90's.  Obviously nothing ever came of it, but it was interesting to hear outside of roadgeek daydreams.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on June 11, 2021, 03:57:51 PM
TN 22 was proposed to eventually become Interstate 169 back in early 2002: https://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/102/Bill/SJR0512.pdf. Since it seems no further moves have been made to bring TN 22 into the Interstate System in the nearly 20 years since then, I would assume the TN 22 freeway will maintain its existing number.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on June 11, 2021, 05:08:29 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on June 11, 2021, 03:57:51 PM
TN 22 was proposed to eventually become Interstate 169 back in early 2002: https://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/102/Bill/SJR0512.pdf. Since it seems no further moves have been made to bring TN 22 into the Interstate System in the nearly 20 years since then, I would assume the TN 22 freeway will maintain its existing number.

They're having enough trouble just getting the I-69 mainline built through that area; adding a free-flow connector and extension to TN 22 to upgrade it to a I-169 might be something that would be taken up well down the line, but not as part of the initial construction under way currently.  UTM notwithstanding, Martin just doesn't seem to be enough of a traffic generator nor destination to warrant Interstate status.   
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: TNObion on June 28, 2021, 12:09:22 PM
Thought I would add these, it seems that paving has begun in some sections. The construction on the NE side of Union City is pretty much my backyard, so I will try to upload any pics if anyone is interested. I grabbed these off of social media, posted by Ford Construction

https://imgur.com/a/TY7CWqS





Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on June 28, 2021, 05:29:16 PM
Quote from: TNObion on June 28, 2021, 12:09:22 PM
Thought I would add these, it seems that paving has begun in some sections. The construction on the NE side of Union City is pretty much my backyard, so I will try to upload any pics if anyone is interested. I grabbed these off of social media, posted by Ford Construction

https://imgur.com/a/TY7CWqS

Good post!

You would think that after having that grade sit fallow for so many years, that it should be pretty solid and no settling will occur post paving.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: TNObion on June 29, 2021, 09:21:47 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on June 28, 2021, 05:29:16 PM
Quote from: TNObion on June 28, 2021, 12:09:22 PM
Thought I would add these, it seems that paving has begun in some sections. The construction on the NE side of Union City is pretty much my backyard, so I will try to upload any pics if anyone is interested. I grabbed these off of social media, posted by Ford Construction

https://imgur.com/a/TY7CWqS

Good post!

You would think that after having that grade sit fallow for so many years, that it should be pretty solid and no settling will occur post paving.

This construction has been going on forever here it seems. Things appear to be moving along now some, finally. The landscape has changed quite a bit in my immediate area, they have moved a lot of dirt. I wish I had taken more "before" pics. I took a ride this afternoon and snapped a few. One thing that stands out to me are the way they are routing the overpasses on some of the roads I have travelled on growing up. I figured they would dead end Claude Tucker Rd, as there are only 2 homes past current construction, with access from Section Line. I have had a couple of PM's requesting some construction pics, I have attached a few.


On top of Mayberry overpass looking toward UC, off 51-

https://imgur.com/a/knv2Jwi


A couple Taken on Claude Tucker-

https://imgur.com/a/MCY1QND


Section Line Looking toward Claude Tucker-

https://imgur.com/a/aBiiKwA




Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: ITB on June 29, 2021, 10:51:33 PM
^^^

Thanks for taking and sharing those pictures. I, myself, am very interested in the progress of I-69 in Tennessee, and I'm sure there are others who feel likewise. It's good to see the construction move forward.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Avalanchez71 on June 30, 2021, 07:14:25 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on June 11, 2021, 03:57:51 PM
TN 22 was proposed to eventually become Interstate 169 back in early 2002: https://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/102/Bill/SJR0512.pdf. Since it seems no further moves have been made to bring TN 22 into the Interstate System in the nearly 20 years since then, I would assume the TN 22 freeway will maintain its existing number.

Sen. Herron (D) is no longer in office. 
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on June 30, 2021, 10:05:50 AM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on June 30, 2021, 07:14:25 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on June 11, 2021, 03:57:51 PM
TN 22 was proposed to eventually become Interstate 169 back in early 2002: https://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/102/Bill/SJR0512.pdf. Since it seems no further moves have been made to bring TN 22 into the Interstate System in the nearly 20 years since then, I would assume the TN 22 freeway will maintain its existing number.

Sen. Herron (D) is no longer in office.

Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Thegeet on June 30, 2021, 01:34:49 PM
Theoretically, the TN route shouldn't take too long to build, with only 120-ish miles from Memphis to the Kentucky state line. The only issue that is holding back is funding. TN reportedly wants Congress to commit to finding.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on June 30, 2021, 04:09:29 PM
Quote from: Thegeet on June 30, 2021, 01:34:49 PM
Theoretically, the TN route shouldn't take too long to build, with only 120-ish miles from Memphis to the Kentucky state line. The only issue that is holding back is funding. TN reportedly wants Congress to commit to finding.

IIRC, an alignment from Memphis (TN 300) north to I-155 at Dyersburg hasn't been finalized; though initially planned to remain west of US 51, incursions into wetlands (and some toxic dumping areas at its southern end) have thrown facility design into disarray.  Those issues would need resolution before funding would be forthcoming.  But so far no alternatives have been seriously posed much less found their way into any official planning efforts.  It being the last I-69 segment from Memphis to Indianapolis lacking solid plans doesn't seem to faze TDOT, however; it appears that there's no hurry to address the lack of progress on this corridor section.   
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Rick Powell on June 30, 2021, 05:53:28 PM
According to Google, picking up US 51 at the south end of Dyersburg to TN 385 (future I-269) is a 65 minute trip over 56 miles. At 70 mph on a completed I-69 interstate, the same trip would take 48 minutes, a 17 minute savings. Perceptible, but not earth shattering. Unless the US 51 corridor is so congested that the 65 minutes is unreliable.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sprjus4 on June 30, 2021, 07:39:09 PM
^ Given the slightly shorter mileage overall, a completed I-69 between Memphis and Indianapolis would be 10-15 minutes faster than I-55, I-57, and I-70. Plus less traffic overall.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on June 30, 2021, 08:35:35 PM
Quote from: Rick Powell on June 30, 2021, 05:53:28 PM
According to Google, picking up US 51 at the south end of Dyersburg to TN 385 (future I-269) is a 65 minute trip over 56 miles. At 70 mph on a completed I-69 interstate, the same trip would take 48 minutes, a 17 minute savings. Perceptible, but not earth shattering. Unless the US 51 corridor is so congested that the 65 minutes is unreliable.
Quote from: sprjus4 on June 30, 2021, 07:39:09 PM
^ Given the slightly shorter mileage overall, a completed I-69 between Memphis and Indianapolis would be 10-15 minutes faster than I-55, I-57, and I-70. Plus less traffic overall.

Here's the thing:  Attempting to either justify or denigrate I-69 as a concept, at least the Memphis-Indy segment, is a functionally moot argument, since everything north of Dyersburg is built, under construction, or well into the final planning stages.  It's there, it's being used (just look at that trucker video from a few weeks back), and it's not going to go away!  And, of course, it's not fully completed because of that last 80-odd miles into Memphis.  Assuming that in the long haul neither US 51 through the various towns along the uncompleted section nor a 120-mile detour via I-155 and I-55 is deemed acceptable (although some posters would undoubtedly differ) -- and TDOT's interest in the corridor were to be revived (via whatever works!), are there alternate alignments -- one would guess well east of the current route and existing plans -- that might be considered more readily implemented (and potentially shorter)?  Observers with a more recent and/or intimate view of things in this region should feel free to chime in here; expanding the rationality of possible solutions beyond the present bounds couldn't hurt at this point. 
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sprjus4 on June 30, 2021, 09:44:14 PM
^ As far as that BigRigSteve video a few weeks ago, he was headed to an area outside Evansville so that route would be the preferred, regardless. He didn't head straight to Indianapolis, or he likely would've simply followed I-55, I-57, and I-70 given I-69 is not complete, particularly from Memphis to I-155, Henderson, and north of Martinsville.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Tomahawkin on June 30, 2021, 10:01:13 PM
Shouldn't 69 be a easy completion in Tennessee, there are no hills to blast through. I'm only guessing that the Floodplain will be the issue with viaduct bridges having to be built. The Southern leg of 269 was done in no time because most of the land was empty Floodplain
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on July 01, 2021, 01:22:50 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on June 30, 2021, 09:44:14 PM
^ As far as that BigRigSteve video a few weeks ago, he was headed to an area outside Evansville so that route would be the preferred, regardless. He didn't head straight to Indianapolis, or he likely would've simply followed I-55, I-57, and I-70 given I-69 is not complete, particularly from Memphis to I-155, Henderson, and north of Martinsville.

Apparently his dropoff was somewhere in the Indianapolis/Anderson area; but he wanted to overnight at his favorite truck stop on US 41 north of Evansville; hence the reliance on I-69 from his pickup point outside Covington, TN.  Glad he decided to do it that way; got a nice view of the rebuilt I-24/69 junction and likewise at Nortonville with the big 90-degree route turn there. 
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Thegeet on July 01, 2021, 01:37:34 AM
Quote from: Tomahawkin on June 30, 2021, 10:01:13 PM
Shouldn't 69 be a easy completion in Tennessee, there are no hills to blast through. I'm only guessing that the Floodplain will be the issue with viaduct bridges having to be built. The Southern leg of 269 was done in no time because most of the land was empty Floodplain
The issue is funding. The environment is relatively easy. They wanted Congress to fund for it.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Avalanchez71 on July 01, 2021, 07:52:50 AM
I know that at one point I had someone that wanted to try a business venture off of I-69 in Tennessee.  He thought that it may bring in new business.  I told him not to hold his breath.   Good thing because there is just not much political will to build.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Ryctor2018 on July 01, 2021, 02:14:21 PM
Quote from: Thegeet on July 01, 2021, 01:37:34 AM
Quote from: Tomahawkin on June 30, 2021, 10:01:13 PM
Shouldn't 69 be a easy completion in Tennessee, there are no hills to blast through. I'm only guessing that the Floodplain will be the issue with viaduct bridges having to be built. The Southern leg of 269 was done in no time because most of the land was empty Floodplain
The issue is funding. The environment is relatively easy. They wanted Congress to fund for it.

There might be some movement on that (albeit slowly). With the DeSoto bridge down, many truckers are using I-155/US-51 to get down to Memphis and points south/east or vice versa. The route would not be built right away of course. However, the I-40 bridge has shown the need for a third bridge in the Memphis area. This also can show the need for a completed I-69 in West Tennessee as the traffic warrants it. With the new Transportation bill moving through Congress, the TN/AR/KY delegation should strike while the iron is hot.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Avalanchez71 on July 01, 2021, 02:56:24 PM
Quote from: Ryctor2018 on July 01, 2021, 02:14:21 PM
Quote from: Thegeet on July 01, 2021, 01:37:34 AM
Quote from: Tomahawkin on June 30, 2021, 10:01:13 PM
Shouldn't 69 be a easy completion in Tennessee, there are no hills to blast through. I'm only guessing that the Floodplain will be the issue with viaduct bridges having to be built. The Southern leg of 269 was done in no time because most of the land was empty Floodplain
The issue is funding. The environment is relatively easy. They wanted Congress to fund for it.

There might be some movement on that (albeit slowly). With the DeSoto bridge down, many truckers are using I-155/US-51 to get down to Memphis and points south/east or vice versa. The route would not be built right away of course. However, the I-40 bridge has shown the need for a third bridge in the Memphis area. This also can show the need for a completed I-69 in West Tennessee as the traffic warrants it. With the new Transportation bill moving through Congress, the TN/AR/KY delegation should strike while the iron is hot.

I would hope our delegation would be better stewards of the $$$ when it comes to the pork bill.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sprjus4 on July 01, 2021, 03:02:38 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on July 01, 2021, 02:56:24 PM
Quote from: Ryctor2018 on July 01, 2021, 02:14:21 PM
Quote from: Thegeet on July 01, 2021, 01:37:34 AM
Quote from: Tomahawkin on June 30, 2021, 10:01:13 PM
Shouldn't 69 be a easy completion in Tennessee, there are no hills to blast through. I'm only guessing that the Floodplain will be the issue with viaduct bridges having to be built. The Southern leg of 269 was done in no time because most of the land was empty Floodplain
The issue is funding. The environment is relatively easy. They wanted Congress to fund for it.

There might be some movement on that (albeit slowly). With the DeSoto bridge down, many truckers are using I-155/US-51 to get down to Memphis and points south/east or vice versa. The route would not be built right away of course. However, the I-40 bridge has shown the need for a third bridge in the Memphis area. This also can show the need for a completed I-69 in West Tennessee as the traffic warrants it. With the new Transportation bill moving through Congress, the TN/AR/KY delegation should strike while the iron is hot.

I would hope our delegation is better stewards of the $$$ when it comes to the pork bill.
Hardly a pork project. Maybe to you, but not reality  :bigass:
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on July 01, 2021, 03:51:04 PM
Quote from: sparker on June 30, 2021, 04:09:29 PM
Quote from: Thegeet on June 30, 2021, 01:34:49 PM
Theoretically, the TN route shouldn't take too long to build, with only 120-ish miles from Memphis to the Kentucky state line. The only issue that is holding back is funding. TN reportedly wants Congress to commit to finding.

IIRC, an alignment from Memphis (TN 300) north to I-155 at Dyersburg hasn't been finalized; though initially planned to remain west of US 51, incursions into wetlands (and some toxic dumping areas at its southern end) have thrown facility design into disarray.  Those issues would need resolution before funding would be forthcoming.  But so far no alternatives have been seriously posed much less found their way into any official planning efforts.  It being the last I-69 segment from Memphis to Indianapolis lacking solid plans doesn't seem to faze TDOT, however; it appears that there's no hurry to address the lack of progress on this corridor section.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49695619242_2cd0f07a44_b.jpg)
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on July 01, 2021, 05:41:09 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on July 01, 2021, 03:51:04 PM
Quote from: sparker on June 30, 2021, 04:09:29 PM
Quote from: Thegeet on June 30, 2021, 01:34:49 PM
Theoretically, the TN route shouldn't take too long to build, with only 120-ish miles from Memphis to the Kentucky state line. The only issue that is holding back is funding. TN reportedly wants Congress to commit to finding.

IIRC, an alignment from Memphis (TN 300) north to I-155 at Dyersburg hasn't been finalized; though initially planned to remain west of US 51, incursions into wetlands (and some toxic dumping areas at its southern end) have thrown facility design into disarray.  Those issues would need resolution before funding would be forthcoming.  But so far no alternatives have been seriously posed much less found their way into any official planning efforts.  It being the last I-69 segment from Memphis to Indianapolis lacking solid plans doesn't seem to faze TDOT, however; it appears that there's no hurry to address the lack of progress on this corridor section.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49695619242_2cd0f07a44_b.jpg)

When was the map shown issued?  Is the alternative "04F" shown by the green line well to the east of the existing route an alternative that's been around for a while or a more recent modification?  And is there some intrinsic problem with the area to the east of the corridor boundaries shown (even as far to the east as SR 14) that eliminated it from consideration, either originally or continuing?  Also, from the way the corridor turns back to the present US 51/TN 385 intersection (as shown, future interchange #4) the basic corridor was laid out at the time when it was unclear whether I-69 would continue through downtown Memphis or bypass the area via what is now I-269 and TN 385 -- and that was back in the early 2000's. 

If the corridor as shown is still an active concept, and the only issue to be resolved is funding, then that's an issue to be resolved within TDOT or possibly an earmark in upcoming transportion outlays.  If there are remaining issues with the alignment as shown -- environmental or otherwise -- then an alternative corridor route needs to be identified and placed in the funding queue.  This particular can has been kicked down the road about as far as it can be;  some resolution is long overdue.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Rick Powell on July 01, 2021, 06:06:32 PM
Quote from: sparker on July 01, 2021, 05:41:09 PM
When was the map shown issued?  Is the alternative "04F" shown by the green line well to the east of the existing route an alternative that's been around for a while or a more recent modification?  And is there some intrinsic problem with the area to the east of the corridor boundaries shown (even as far to the east as SR 14) that eliminated it from consideration, either originally or continuing?  Also, from the way the corridor turns back to the present US 51/TN 385 intersection (as shown, future interchange #4) the basic corridor was laid out at the time when it was unclear whether I-69 would continue through downtown Memphis or bypass the area via what is now I-269 and TN 385 -- and that was back in the early 2000's. 

If the corridor as shown is still an active concept, and the only issue to be resolved is funding, then that's an issue to be resolved within TDOT or possibly an earmark in upcoming transportation outlays.  If there are remaining issues with the alignment as shown -- environmental or otherwise -- then an alternative corridor route needs to be identified and placed in the funding queue.  This particular can has been kicked down the road about as far as it can be;  some resolution is long overdue.
If there is not a federal Final EIS and Record of Decision, the route cannot be considered final. From TnDOTs website it looks like a Draft EIS then a Supplemental Draft EIS were done, but not finalized. That same map is online here too. The SDEIS is dated May 2008 so it has been sitting around for nearly a decade and a half without another federal follow up action. Wetlands disappear and form, additional species are listed and occasionally de-listed, hazardous waste is buried and removed in the interim, and the federal rules of what represents full disclosure of impacts keep changing, so there's some work ahead on updating the studies even if they settled on the current route, and much more work if additional alternatives are looked at.

https://www.tn.gov/tdot/projects/region-4/interstate-69-segment-8/interstate-69-segment-8-library.html
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on July 01, 2021, 07:01:41 PM
Quote from: Rick Powell on July 01, 2021, 06:06:32 PM
Quote from: sparker on July 01, 2021, 05:41:09 PM
When was the map shown issued?  Is the alternative "04F" shown by the green line well to the east of the existing route an alternative that's been around for a while or a more recent modification?  And is there some intrinsic problem with the area to the east of the corridor boundaries shown (even as far to the east as SR 14) that eliminated it from consideration, either originally or continuing?  Also, from the way the corridor turns back to the present US 51/TN 385 intersection (as shown, future interchange #4) the basic corridor was laid out at the time when it was unclear whether I-69 would continue through downtown Memphis or bypass the area via what is now I-269 and TN 385 -- and that was back in the early 2000's. 

If the corridor as shown is still an active concept, and the only issue to be resolved is funding, then that's an issue to be resolved within TDOT or possibly an earmark in upcoming transportation outlays.  If there are remaining issues with the alignment as shown -- environmental or otherwise -- then an alternative corridor route needs to be identified and placed in the funding queue.  This particular can has been kicked down the road about as far as it can be;  some resolution is long overdue.
If there is not a federal Final EIS and Record of Decision, the route cannot be considered final. From TnDOTs website it looks like a Draft EIS then a Supplemental Draft EIS were done, but not finalized. That same map is online here too. The SDEIS is dated May 2008 so it has been sitting around for nearly a decade and a half without another federal follow up action. Wetlands disappear and form, additional species are listed and occasionally de-listed, hazardous waste is buried and removed in the interim, and the federal rules of what represents full disclosure of impacts keep changing, so there's some work ahead on updating the studies even if they settled on the current route, and much more work if additional alternatives are looked at.

https://www.tn.gov/tdot/projects/region-4/interstate-69-segment-8/interstate-69-segment-8-library.html

Question:  is the federal follow-up action contingent upon request from TDOT or would it be undertaken at the federal level (USDOT and/or EPA) absent any further action at the state level?  Since 13 years have passed since the SDEIS, it would appear that one party or another is not in any particular hurry to see a resolution.  With that in mind, one would wonder if starting from scratch on an alignment not impinging upon the wetlands traversed by US 51 (and I have driven that route a few times and seen the terrain firsthand -- and there's no shortage of channels and bayous crossed by the current facility) might be an alternative to be explored, even with all-new paperwork involved.   In short -- it looks like a standoff, standstill, or perpetual procrastination with the current plan; perhaps going back to square #1 might break the logjam -- just a thought!
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on July 01, 2021, 08:39:55 PM
Giving some thought to going down that way this weekend (western Kentucky) and a short side trip to the Union City area would be an easy diversion. Last time i was there, I got some photos at the TN 22/TN 5 interchange. Any other suggestions for good photo opportunities? I wouldn't want to go as far as Dyersburg, since most of the road on is already up to interstate standards and is signed as "Future I-69 Corridor."
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Rick Powell on July 01, 2021, 11:59:45 PM
Quote from: sparker on July 01, 2021, 07:01:41 PM
Question:  is the federal follow-up action contingent upon request from TDOT or would it be undertaken at the federal level (USDOT and/or EPA) absent any further action at the state level? 
The state DOTs drive the process, even though EISs are federal documents. The Federal Highway Administration depends on the state DOTs to hire the consultants and to do most of the study work, and the feds mostly process the paperwork, review documents and attend meetings. If there is no push from the state DOT on a project, the study sits.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on July 02, 2021, 02:07:19 AM
Quote from: Rick Powell on July 01, 2021, 11:59:45 PM
Quote from: sparker on July 01, 2021, 07:01:41 PM
Question:  is the federal follow-up action contingent upon request from TDOT or would it be undertaken at the federal level (USDOT and/or EPA) absent any further action at the state level? 
The state DOTs drive the process, even though EISs are federal documents. The Federal Highway Administration depends on the state DOTs to hire the consultants and to do most of the study work, and the feds mostly process the paperwork, review documents and attend meetings. If there is no push from the state DOT on a project, the study sits.

Sounds like the regional "Memphis Blues" are at work here; little love for that part of the state from the powers that be in Nashville.  Hopefully it won't sit another 13 years until someone at least pulls it off the shelf (for purposes other than dusting!).  X-(
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: wriddle082 on July 02, 2021, 07:22:11 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 01, 2021, 08:39:55 PM
Giving some thought to going down that way this weekend (western Kentucky) and a short side trip to the Union City area would be an easy diversion. Last time i was there, I got some photos at the TN 22/TN 5 interchange. Any other suggestions for good photo opportunities? I wouldn't want to go as far as Dyersburg, since most of the road on is already up to interstate standards and is signed as "Future I-69 Corridor."

Take the TN 22 freeway down to Martin and check out the TN 22/US 45E/TN 431 interchange on the east side.  Interesting 3-level deal that came about when they originally built the northern bypass to end and merge seamlessly into 22 east, but then later they added the ramps for the southeastern segment of the bypass.  Most of the bridges are good old TDOT-style concrete box girders.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Avalanchez71 on July 02, 2021, 08:37:24 AM
What is the feasibility of putting a truck lane or express lane in and around said towns along US 51 and forgoing the completion of I-69?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: rte66man on July 02, 2021, 09:46:01 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 01, 2021, 08:39:55 PM
Giving some thought to going down that way this weekend (western Kentucky) and a short side trip to the Union City area would be an easy diversion. Last time i was there, I got some photos at the TN 22/TN 5 interchange. Any other suggestions for good photo opportunities? I wouldn't want to go as far as Dyersburg, since most of the road on is already up to interstate standards and is signed as "Future I-69 Corridor."

Don't know the cost but it might be worth it to go up in that tower at Discovery Park on the west side of Union City. I'll bet you could get some great shots of I69 from up there.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: TNObion on July 02, 2021, 10:33:21 AM
Quote from: rte66man on July 02, 2021, 09:46:01 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 01, 2021, 08:39:55 PM
Giving some thought to going down that way this weekend (western Kentucky) and a short side trip to the Union City area would be an easy diversion. Last time i was there, I got some photos at the TN 22/TN 5 interchange. Any other suggestions for good photo opportunities? I wouldn't want to go as far as Dyersburg, since most of the road on is already up to interstate standards and is signed as "Future I-69 Corridor."

Don't know the cost but it might be worth it to go up in that tower at Discovery Park on the west side of Union City. I'll bet you could get some great shots of I69 from up there.

That would be a fantastic place for some pictures, I believe it's 15 bucks or so. The TN 21 overpass is completed and open now, that would also be a good place. I believe the Brevard Rd overpass is done now as well.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on July 02, 2021, 12:05:18 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on July 02, 2021, 08:37:24 AM
What is the feasibility of putting a truck lane or express lane in and around said towns along US 51 and forgoing the completion of I-69?

Slim & none; HPC #18/I-69 is written into federal code; to change/delete it would literally take an act of Congress.  It's functionally mandated to be constructed to Interstate standards; while present plans (seemingly shelved) keep the planned alignment close to extant US 51, the lack of final EIS approval for those plans means any alignment with Dyersburg and Memphis as the endpoints remains possible (if not probable) -- but regardless of location, it'll be required to follow Interstate standards regarding facility characteristics.   
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sprjus4 on July 02, 2021, 12:53:10 PM
^ Not to mention, when you take in account the substandard conditions of US-51, the amount of towns on the corridor, etc., it simply makes logical sense to relocate the corridor onto new location and build it as a limited access highway.

US-51 is not some high quality roadway today. It's 4 lanes, sure, but has a substandard design, passes through a number of towns, etc. It needs improvements, and given the cost it would take to make US-51 a free-flowing expressway with town bypasses, it seems more worthwhile to just relocate the entire roadway.

I-69 aside, improving the outlet up US-51 provides an improved connection to Kentucky's parkway system, and could provide redundancy to I-40 and I-65 and the traditional via Nashville routing to destinations such as Louisville, etc. Then of course, redundancy to I-55, I-57, and I-70 by providing a shorter, more direct, more reliable corridor between Indianapolis and Memphis.

There's zero reason to cancel the route.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Avalanchez71 on July 02, 2021, 01:18:45 PM
There is not a need when you have I-55 just the other side of the river, I-65 just east of the location and the facility is already 4 lane.  US 45 just to the east is now 4 lanes as well to I-40.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: rte66man on July 02, 2021, 01:30:50 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 02, 2021, 12:53:10 PM
^ Not to mention, when you take in account the substandard conditions of US-51, the amount of towns on the corridor, etc., it simply makes logical sense to relocate the corridor onto new location and build it as a limited access highway.

US-51 is not some high quality roadway today. It's 4 lanes, sure, but has a substandard design, passes through a number of towns, etc. It needs improvements, and given the cost it would take to make US-51 a free-flowing expressway with town bypasses, it seems more worthwhile to just relocate the entire roadway.

I-69 aside, improving the outlet up US-51 provides an improved connection to Kentucky's parkway system, and could provide redundancy to I-40 and I-65 and the traditional via Nashville routing to destinations such as Louisville, etc. Then of course, redundancy to I-55, I-57, and I-70 by providing a shorter, more direct, more reliable corridor between Indianapolis and Memphis.

There's zero reason to cancel the route.

Just think if 69 was built, then an incident like the DeSoto bridge wouldn't cause nearly as much backup. I55 traffic could be diverted up 69 and back across the Mississippi at Caruthersville on 155.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sprjus4 on July 02, 2021, 01:49:51 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on July 02, 2021, 01:18:45 PM
There is not a need when you have I-55 just the other side of the river, I-65 just east of the location and the facility is already 4 lane.
Both corridors are overcapacity and a "no build" along US-51 does nothing to improve traffic flow north out of the Memphis. For long term sustainability, a new freeway along the existing US-51 corridor would provide long term sustainability, a reliable corridor, a more direct route to the north, and needed redundancy in the system.

Quote from: Avalanchez71 on July 02, 2021, 01:18:45 PM
US 45 just to the east is now 4 lanes as well to I-40.
That corridor is no better than US-51. Towns, substandard segments, traffic signals, etc.

Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Bobby5280 on July 02, 2021, 02:23:49 PM
"I-65 is just east of the location."

Um, try about 200 MILES EAST. The level of trolling from this guy is reaching new levels of stupid.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sprjus4 on July 02, 2021, 02:25:45 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on July 02, 2021, 02:23:49 PM
"I-65 is just east of the location."

Um, try about 200 MILES EAST. The level of trolling from this guy is reaching new levels of stupid.
I believe it was in response to me saying that an upgraded US-51 corridor connecting to Kentucky's parkways would provide redundancy and a more reliable connection to points like Louisville, outside of the I-69 scope, to which he refuted saying I-40, I-65, and going through Nashville is perfectly adequate and needs no new corridor or improvements, which we all know based on actual reality on the ground, is false. Heavy truck traffic, high volumes in general, backups, city congestion, etc. But he will strongly defend in any way he can that I-65 needs zero improvements without any actual facts or evidence to support his case. He does like to say you can just take alternative, non interstate routes though, and claim those are viable enough for long distance traffic  :bigass:
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on July 02, 2021, 03:33:16 PM
Quote from: wriddle082 on July 02, 2021, 07:22:11 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 01, 2021, 08:39:55 PM
Giving some thought to going down that way this weekend (western Kentucky) and a short side trip to the Union City area would be an easy diversion. Last time i was there, I got some photos at the TN 22/TN 5 interchange. Any other suggestions for good photo opportunities? I wouldn't want to go as far as Dyersburg, since most of the road on is already up to interstate standards and is signed as "Future I-69 Corridor."

Take the TN 22 freeway down to Martin and check out the TN 22/US 45E/TN 431 interchange on the east side.  Interesting 3-level deal that came about when they originally built the northern bypass to end and merge seamlessly into 22 east, but then later they added the ramps for the southeastern segment of the bypass.  Most of the bridges are good old TDOT-style concrete box girders.

I drove through there on 45E a few years ago, and I can't remember for sure, but we may have also driven that when Jason took us out for a road trip the day of your wedding.

Quote from: sprjus4 on July 02, 2021, 02:25:45 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on July 02, 2021, 02:23:49 PM
"I-65 is just east of the location."

Um, try about 200 MILES EAST. The level of trolling from this guy is reaching new levels of stupid.
I believe it was in response to me saying that an upgraded US-51 corridor connecting to Kentucky's parkways would provide redundancy and a more reliable connection to points like Louisville, outside of the I-69 scope, to which he refuted saying I-40, I-65, and going through Nashville is perfectly adequate and needs no new corridor or improvements, which we all know based on actual reality on the ground, is false. Heavy truck traffic, high volumes in general, backups, city congestion, etc. But he will strongly defend in any way he can that I-65 needs zero improvements without any actual facts or evidence to support his case. He does like to say you can just take alternative, non interstate routes though, and claim those are viable enough for long distance traffic  :bigass:

As I've often said, after having driven I-40 between Nashville and Memphis once, and knowing traffic conditions on I-65 and in Nashville, I will choose the Kentucky parkways and US 51 over going through Nashville anytime I have to go to Memphis or a destination to the west or south of there.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: rickmastfan67 on July 02, 2021, 05:20:04 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on July 02, 2021, 01:18:45 PM
There is not a need when you have I-55 just the other side of the river, I-65 just east of the location and the facility is already 4 lane.  US 45 just to the east is now 4 lanes as well to I-40.

The issues and backups on I-55 due to the I-40 bridge closure says otherwise.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on July 02, 2021, 05:40:06 PM
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on July 02, 2021, 05:20:04 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on July 02, 2021, 01:18:45 PM
There is not a need when you have I-55 just the other side of the river, I-65 just east of the location and the facility is already 4 lane.  US 45 just to the east is now 4 lanes as well to I-40.

The issues and backups on I-55 due to the I-40 bridge closure says otherwise.

This particular poster's primary motivation, expressed in virtually every situation, seems to be:  I don't think there should be public expenditure on facilities or facility upgrades that make driving any more efficient or more pleasant than it is now!  If this isn't what he's attempting to convey, he can respond in kind. 
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: froggie on July 03, 2021, 01:19:03 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 02, 2021, 01:49:51 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on July 02, 2021, 01:18:45 PM
There is not a need when you have I-55 just the other side of the river, I-65 just east of the location and the facility is already 4 lane.
Both corridors are overcapacity

55 is only "over capacity" through West Memphis.  Once you get north of Marion, it is not.

65, on the other hand...though even there one could argue it doesn't have any capacity needs between Columbia and Athens.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sprjus4 on July 03, 2021, 01:40:09 PM
Quote from: froggie on July 03, 2021, 01:19:03 PM
55 is only "over capacity" through West Memphis.  Once you get north of Marion, it is not.
True, by sheer volume, it's under 20,000 AADT, though truck percentages are in the ~50-60% range in that segment so that somewhat is a factor.

Either way, routing via I-55 and I-155 adds 40 miles, and 10-15 minutes time wise off peak. Add in congestion, the bridges, West Memphis, etc. and could easily be longer. There is some merit to having an additional interstate highway corridor, or at minimum free-flowing 65 mph expressway with no signals, between Memphis and I-155 along the US-51 corridor.

Quote from: froggie on July 03, 2021, 01:19:03 PM
65, on the other hand...though even there one could argue it doesn't have any capacity needs between Columbia and Athens.
The segment between Columbia and Athens isn't on the routing, so that is irrelevant to this particular example. North of Nashville to the Kentucky border there are capacity issues, high truck volumes, etc. plus dealing with Nashville itself.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on July 03, 2021, 02:49:44 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 03, 2021, 01:40:09 PM
Quote from: froggie on July 03, 2021, 01:19:03 PM
55 is only "over capacity" through West Memphis.  Once you get north of Marion, it is not.
True, by sheer volume, it's under 20,000 AADT, though truck percentages are in the ~50-60% range in that segment so that somewhat is a factor.

Either way, routing via I-55 and I-155 adds 40 miles, and 10-15 minutes time wise off peak. Add in congestion, the bridges, West Memphis, etc. and could easily be longer. There is some merit to having an additional interstate highway corridor, or at minimum free-flowing 65 mph expressway with no signals, between Memphis and I-155 along the US-51 corridor.

Quote from: froggie on July 03, 2021, 01:19:03 PM
65, on the other hand...though even there one could argue it doesn't have any capacity needs between Columbia and Athens.
The segment between Columbia and Athens isn't on the routing, so that is irrelevant to this particular example. North of Nashville to the Kentucky border there are capacity issues, high truck volumes, etc. plus dealing with Nashville itself.

Since for the time being the combination of I-65 and I-40 remains the commercial corridor of choice between Louisville and Memphis (at least until I-69 is fully completed, with the WKY as a connector), expanding 65 north of Nashville would be a no-brainer (and apparently TDOT concurs).  But as our resident BANANA seems to blithefully ignore, not all corridors provide that combination of directness and efficiency that an Interstate or at least an access-controlled expressway does (one would guess he's never been behind the controls of a big rig on a significant commercial run!).  When completed, I-69 will function at least as a relief route to the Nashville option, especially with its lateral connections in KY. 
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on July 03, 2021, 08:17:26 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on July 02, 2021, 08:37:24 AM
What is the feasibility of putting a truck lane or express lane in and around said towns along US 51 and forgoing the completion of I-69?

Who would pay for it?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on July 03, 2021, 08:55:21 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on July 03, 2021, 08:17:26 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on July 02, 2021, 08:37:24 AM
What is the feasibility of putting a truck lane or express lane in and around said towns along US 51 and forgoing the completion of I-69?

Who would pay for it?

No one; that corridor specification change just isn't going to happen, at least under the auspices of the high priority corridor legislation that governs the I-69 corridor.  If the project were suspended or diverted, any US 51 projects would then be relegated to the usual funding-application/get-in-line process for any federal assistance -- but TDOT would still have to request those funds, which would be considerably less than available for a NHS/HPC listed project, unless some local congressperson can secure an earmark.  And if that hasn't happened for a national corridor, it likely wouldn't happen for a truck lane on an existing surface facility. 
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: ethanhopkin14 on July 19, 2021, 01:50:58 PM
Maybe this has been covered before, but what will happen to the western side of I-240 when I-69 is completed in Tennessee?  I imagine it will be treated like I-635 was when I-20 was routed on it's southern leg.  If so, is there another instance when a full beltway 3DI had multiple sections of it's route re-numbered for a main route of multiple 2DIs, making the 3DI a shell of it's former self?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on July 19, 2021, 02:24:21 PM
I believe it will be co-signed as Interstate 69/240, unless Exits 25-32 are renumbered to Exits 6-13. The only Memphis route that will likely be decommissioned is the unsigned TN 300 segment.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: triplemultiplex on July 20, 2021, 03:53:50 PM
Hmm, that's disappointing.  I-240 serves two entirely different functions either side of its junction with I-55.  With I-69 in place, it's N-S piece is redundant and unnecessary.  It should end at I-55 once 69 is in town.
In my opinion, it's more egregious than keeping I-894 in Milwaukee now that the whole thing is also I-41.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on July 20, 2021, 04:06:44 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on July 20, 2021, 03:53:50 PM
Hmm, that's disappointing.  I-240 serves two entirely different functions either side of its junction with I-55.  With I-69 in place, it's N-S piece is redundant and unnecessary.  It should end at I-55 once 69 is in town.
In my opinion, it's more egregious than keeping I-894 in Milwaukee now that the whole thing is also I-41.

Still think that, once the DeSoto/I-40 bridge is back on line, I-55 should be routed up what is now the N-S segment of I-240/future I-69 and west over that bridge with I-40; the current I-55 over the substandard M-A bridge (and the equally substandard Crump interchange) should be given over to I-240; basically eliminating the "double elbow" in south Memphis and creating two through routes there.  Of course, the long-speculated 3rd bridge would immeasurably help in the routing dilemma -- but until that's the subject of definite plans, everyone's just going to have to put up with the two (hopefully!) bridge system. 
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: MikeTheActuary on July 20, 2021, 09:44:44 PM
The current I-40 alignment was considered a dual I-40/I-240 when it first opened.

I forget whether that was actually signed as such.  I think it was for several years, at least until the original intended I-40 alignment was finally officially axed and what became Sam Cooper Blvd was formally downloaded to the city...but I'm not positive.

I wouldn't be surprised if TDOT goes for dropping the remaining western I-240 designation if/when I-69 becomes reality....but I might give even money as to whether a new/third bridge is built, and/or the mess of I-55 is fixed before TDOT posts I-69 shields in Memphis.   Depending on what happens with any bridge-related redesignations....
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on July 20, 2021, 11:09:28 PM
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on July 20, 2021, 09:44:44 PM
The current I-40 alignment was considered a dual I-40/I-240 when it first opened.

I forget whether that was actually signed as such.  I think it was for several years, at least until the original intended I-40 alignment was finally officially axed and what became Sam Cooper Blvd was formally downloaded to the city...but I'm not positive.

I wouldn't be surprised if TDOT goes for dropping the remaining western I-240 designation if/when I-69 becomes reality....but I might give even money as to whether a new/third bridge is built, and/or the mess of I-55 is fixed before TDOT posts I-69 shields in Memphis.   Depending on what happens with any bridge-related redesignations....
Before any of that happens though, they need to get I-69 built between Dyersburg and Memphis. Since TDOT is moving at glacial speed in the design and construction of I-69, building what it can with whatever funds it can scrounge up from year-to-year, and the fact there are still a lot of folks fighting the proposed alignment between I-155 and the TN-300 stub, I don't see this segment being built anytime in the forseeable future.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Thegeet on July 20, 2021, 11:39:55 PM
What would the new controlled access facility for union city in construction be designated if Kentucky doesn't re-sign the purchase parkway as I-69 SW of mayfield? I-69 (w or w/o KY signing), a US 51 aux route, or a state highway?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sprjus4 on July 20, 2021, 11:51:30 PM
^ Not sure, might just be US-51 regardless with I-69 co-signed. Even if Kentucky designates that part as I-69 south of Mayfield regardless, the interchange at the state line needs a full reconstruction / reconfiguration before any continuous interstate designation can continue into Tennessee.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Thegeet on July 21, 2021, 12:31:30 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 20, 2021, 11:51:30 PM
^ Not sure, might just be US-51 regardless with I-69 co-signed. Even if Kentucky designates that part as I-69 south of Mayfield regardless, the interchange at the state line needs a full reconstruction / reconfiguration before any continuous interstate designation can continue into Tennessee.
Interesting. Would it be a reroute of US 51, or would it just be something like US 51 Bypass?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sprjus4 on July 21, 2021, 12:42:19 AM
^ Not really sure, to be honest. Either would work, with a US-51 Business taking over the old route if the mainline was re-routed.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on July 21, 2021, 02:17:44 AM
Quote from: abqtraveler on July 20, 2021, 11:09:28 PM
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on July 20, 2021, 09:44:44 PM
The current I-40 alignment was considered a dual I-40/I-240 when it first opened.

I forget whether that was actually signed as such.  I think it was for several years, at least until the original intended I-40 alignment was finally officially axed and what became Sam Cooper Blvd was formally downloaded to the city...but I'm not positive.

I wouldn't be surprised if TDOT goes for dropping the remaining western I-240 designation if/when I-69 becomes reality....but I might give even money as to whether a new/third bridge is built, and/or the mess of I-55 is fixed before TDOT posts I-69 shields in Memphis.   Depending on what happens with any bridge-related redesignations....
Before any of that happens though, they need to get I-69 built between Dyersburg and Memphis. Since TDOT is moving at glacial speed in the design and construction of I-69, building what it can with whatever funds it can scrounge up from year-to-year, and the fact there are still a lot of folks fighting the proposed alignment between I-155 and the TN-300 stub, I don't see this segment being built anytime in the forseeable future.

Question:  who exactly comprises the opposition to I-69 Memphis>Dyersburg?  I would imagine the "usual suspects" comprising the Sierra Club, regional environmental groups citing proximity to the river wetlands, and some locals fearing loss of roadside business if their towns are bypassed.  Except for the "wetlands warriors", corridor opposition sounds like business as usual for such projects and normally taken in stride.  But is there some sort of statewide proactive opposition -- or is it just the latest iteration of folks in Nashville reluctant to funnel money to anything that would involve Memphis?  And does this go back all the way to when the extended I-69 was cobbled up back in 1995 -- was there any objection raised to running the corridor through TN back then by any particular group or individual with clout?  Just saying -- possibly the reasons for the persistent delays on this segment have deeper roots than just a surface view would indicate   
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on July 21, 2021, 09:43:57 AM
If memory serves, there is a wildlife refuge between Covington and Ripley and the alternative routing around it was proposed was never approved.

The only other environmental issue (to my knowledge) is between Millington and Frayser. There is a EPA Superfund Site and the regional landfill.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on July 21, 2021, 10:30:51 AM
Kentucky fully intends to designate the Purchase Parkway as I-69, probably just as soon as the Wingo toll booth cloverleaf interchange is rebuilt into a diamond.

There is no reason that I-69 cannot be designated piecemeal in Tennessee. Best I can remember, nothing needs to be done between Dyersburg and the point where the freeway begins/ends south of Union City. And the only issue I can think of between the north side of Union City and the 45/45E/45W/51 interchange in South Fulton is the TN 214 (Ken-Tenn Road) intersection.

Once the Union City bypass is finished, Tennessee should designate the segment between I-155 and TN 214 as I-69. Do the same thing that North Carolina has done with its discontinuous segments of I-26.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Thegeet on July 21, 2021, 12:53:35 PM
Omg I forgot about I-155. Lulz.

So, would I-69 in Memphis be signed as soon as the Union City-Troy route is finished, or do we still have to wait on Dyersburg-Memphis to be finished (in like 10 years or so?)?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Scott5114 on July 21, 2021, 01:18:20 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 19, 2021, 01:50:58 PM
Maybe this has been covered before, but what will happen to the western side of I-240 when I-69 is completed in Tennessee?  I imagine it will be treated like I-635 was when I-20 was routed on it's southern leg.  If so, is there another instance when a full beltway 3DI had multiple sections of it's route re-numbered for a main route of multiple 2DIs, making the 3DI a shell of it's former self?

Funnily enough something similar happened to another I-240, the one in Oklahoma City–it once was a ¾ beltway around OKC, but the west and north legs got renumbered to I-44 in 1982.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on July 22, 2021, 11:47:28 AM
Quote from: Thegeet on July 21, 2021, 12:53:35 PM
Omg I forgot about I-155. Lulz.

So, would I-69 in Memphis be signed as soon as the Union City-Troy route is finished, or do we still have to wait on Dyersburg-Memphis to be finished (in like 10 years or so?)?
I don't think I-69 through Memphis will be signed until the section from US-51/TN-300 and I-269, and from I-269 to I-155 are complete.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on July 22, 2021, 03:15:19 PM
I hope we don't have to wait 50-100 years for that to happen.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on August 27, 2021, 07:08:21 AM
Ran across this news report from last July when TN began paving the existing segments of I-69 at Union City.

https://www.jacksonsun.com/story/news/2021/07/16/paving-interstate-69-bypass-obion-county-tennessee/7937940002/
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on August 27, 2021, 10:09:25 AM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on August 27, 2021, 07:08:21 AM
Ran across this news report from last July when TN began paving the existing segments of I-69 at Union City.

https://www.jacksonsun.com/story/news/2021/07/16/paving-interstate-69-bypass-obion-county-tennessee/7937940002/

The information that TDOT has on their site concerning the I-69 corridor is way out of date. On a separate, but related note, will the Union City Bypass be signed as I-69 when it opens, or will it be given a temporary designation until it's connected to another portion of I-69 that's not yet under construction, let alone finished?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on August 27, 2021, 10:19:54 AM
Quote from: abqtraveler on August 27, 2021, 10:09:25 AM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on August 27, 2021, 07:08:21 AM
Ran across this news report from last July when TN began paving the existing segments of I-69 at Union City.

https://www.jacksonsun.com/story/news/2021/07/16/paving-interstate-69-bypass-obion-county-tennessee/7937940002/

The information that TDOT has on their site concerning the I-69 corridor is way out of date. On a separate, but related note, will the Union City Bypass be signed as I-69 when it opens, or will it be given a temporary designation until it's connected to another portion of I-69 that's not yet under construction, let alone finished?

They will probably just relocate US-51 until the intersection with US-45E is redone. It is most definitely not interstate standard.

In the 1960's they used to not care so much as we used to get jogged in and out of the Interstate highway and US highway all the time.

They may put up a joint sign with US-51 with a "Future" above the I-69 shield, so they can just remove it later.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on August 27, 2021, 11:10:43 AM
Quote from: edwaleni on August 27, 2021, 10:19:54 AM
Quote from: abqtraveler on August 27, 2021, 10:09:25 AM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on August 27, 2021, 07:08:21 AM
Ran across this news report from last July when TN began paving the existing segments of I-69 at Union City.

https://www.jacksonsun.com/story/news/2021/07/16/paving-interstate-69-bypass-obion-county-tennessee/7937940002/

The information that TDOT has on their site concerning the I-69 corridor is way out of date. On a separate, but related note, will the Union City Bypass be signed as I-69 when it opens, or will it be given a temporary designation until it's connected to another portion of I-69 that's not yet under construction, let alone finished?

They will probably just relocate US-51 until the intersection with US-45E is redone. It is most definitely not interstate standard.

In the 1960's they used to not care so much as we used to get jogged in and out of the Interstate highway and US highway all the time.

They may put up a joint sign with US-51 with a "Future" above the I-69 shield, so they can just remove it later.

Or maybe they could give the new freeway the temporary designation of US-51 BYPASS until either the Fulton interchange gets reconstructed or the Troy Bypass gets finished, whichever comes first.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on August 27, 2021, 01:35:39 PM
Quote from: abqtraveler on August 27, 2021, 11:10:43 AM
Quote from: edwaleni on August 27, 2021, 10:19:54 AM
Quote from: abqtraveler on August 27, 2021, 10:09:25 AM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on August 27, 2021, 07:08:21 AM
Ran across this news report from last July when TN began paving the existing segments of I-69 at Union City.

https://www.jacksonsun.com/story/news/2021/07/16/paving-interstate-69-bypass-obion-county-tennessee/7937940002/

The information that TDOT has on their site concerning the I-69 corridor is way out of date. On a separate, but related note, will the Union City Bypass be signed as I-69 when it opens, or will it be given a temporary designation until it's connected to another portion of I-69 that's not yet under construction, let alone finished?

They will probably just relocate US-51 until the intersection with US-45E is redone. It is most definitely not interstate standard.

In the 1960's they used to not care so much as we used to get jogged in and out of the Interstate highway and US highway all the time.

They may put up a joint sign with US-51 with a "Future" above the I-69 shield, so they can just remove it later.

Or maybe they could give the new freeway the temporary designation of US-51 BYPASS until either the Fulton interchange gets reconstructed or the Troy Bypass gets finished, whichever comes first.

I downloaded the plans for the section from west of TN21 to US 51 back when the project started and the signage shown for the bypass is I-69
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Daniel Fiddler on August 27, 2021, 01:43:06 PM
I remember making a trip up there merely to see the road construction and take pictures.  Not too far from me.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: bwana39 on August 27, 2021, 04:48:11 PM
Quote from: sparker on July 20, 2021, 04:06:44 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on July 20, 2021, 03:53:50 PM
Hmm, that's disappointing.  I-240 serves two entirely different functions either side of its junction with I-55.  With I-69 in place, it's N-S piece is redundant and unnecessary.  It should end at I-55 once 69 is in town.
In my opinion, it's more egregious than keeping I-894 in Milwaukee now that the whole thing is also I-41.

Still think that, once the DeSoto/I-40 bridge is back on line, I-55 should be routed up what is now the N-S segment of I-240/future I-69 and west over that bridge with I-40; the current I-55 over the substandard M-A bridge (and the equally substandard Crump interchange) should be given over to I-240; basically eliminating the "double elbow" in south Memphis and creating two through routes there.  Of course, the long-speculated 3rd bridge would immeasurably help in the routing dilemma -- but until that's the subject of definite plans, everyone's just going to have to put up with the two (hopefully!) bridge system.

No, JUST NO! I-240 is big enough a mess during rush hour. Re-routing I-55 across the bridge might help the bridge problem (Probably not ...the HDB has a 58% sufficiency rating. )

We may not like the bridge, but few of us actually use paper maps or stay on a route by number in the days of gps routing. In spite of the seemingly universal disdain for the bridge, the traffic volumes still outstrip the ones on the the HDB.  Most of them are not first time drivers who blindly followed the GPS (into the ocean?) Most make the choice to follow it in spite of its narrow gauge. If all the freeway were removed between I-40 in West Memphis and I-240 in south Memphis, it might force the traffic to go the other way, MIGHT!  I will add if they ever redo the way I-55 turns away from Crump Boulevard that will make a huge difference. Something we have to keep in mind is that Crump Boulevard was originally the through route AND during the peak rush hours still takes on around half of the traffic.

The answer is a new bridge in southern Memphis or Northern Desoto County MS.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sparker on August 27, 2021, 04:54:18 PM
Quote from: bwana39 on August 27, 2021, 04:48:11 PM
Quote from: sparker on July 20, 2021, 04:06:44 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on July 20, 2021, 03:53:50 PM
Hmm, that's disappointing.  I-240 serves two entirely different functions either side of its junction with I-55.  With I-69 in place, it's N-S piece is redundant and unnecessary.  It should end at I-55 once 69 is in town.
In my opinion, it's more egregious than keeping I-894 in Milwaukee now that the whole thing is also I-41.

Still think that, once the DeSoto/I-40 bridge is back on line, I-55 should be routed up what is now the N-S segment of I-240/future I-69 and west over that bridge with I-40; the current I-55 over the substandard M-A bridge (and the equally substandard Crump interchange) should be given over to I-240; basically eliminating the "double elbow" in south Memphis and creating two through routes there.  Of course, the long-speculated 3rd bridge would immeasurably help in the routing dilemma -- but until that's the subject of definite plans, everyone's just going to have to put up with the two (hopefully!) bridge system.

No, JUST NO! I-240 is big enough a mess during rush hour. Re-routing I-55 across the bridge might help the bridge problem (Probably not ...the HDB has a 58% sufficiency rating. )

We may not like the bridge, but few of us actually use paper maps or stay on a route by number in the days of gps routing. In spite of the seemingly universal disdain for the bridge, the traffic volumes still outstrip the ones on the the HDB.  Most of them are not first time drivers who blindly followed the GPS (into the ocean?) Most make the choice to follow it in spite of its narrow gauge. If all the freeway were removed between I-40 in West Memphis and I-240 in south Memphis, it might force the traffic to go the other way, MIGHT!  I will add if they ever redo the way I-55 turns away from Crump Boulevard that will make a huge difference. Something we have to keep in mind is that Crump Boulevard was originally the through route AND during the peak rush hours still takes on around half of the traffic.

The answer is a new bridge in southern Memphis or Northern Desoto County MS.

I still think, at least for navigational purposes, my designation realignment is valid.  That being said -- if the Crump situation is alleviated (I understand the history of the connection, but at this point the present scheme should be consigned to that history!), keeping designations as is would be acceptable.  But when and if I-69 is signed through downtown Memphis (if any of us live that long!), the N-S section of I-240 should be truncated back to the I-55 interchange, leaving the current facility to I-69.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on August 29, 2021, 08:51:32 AM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on August 27, 2021, 01:35:39 PM
Quote from: abqtraveler on August 27, 2021, 11:10:43 AM
Quote from: edwaleni on August 27, 2021, 10:19:54 AM
Quote from: abqtraveler on August 27, 2021, 10:09:25 AM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on August 27, 2021, 07:08:21 AM
Ran across this news report from last July when TN began paving the existing segments of I-69 at Union City.

https://www.jacksonsun.com/story/news/2021/07/16/paving-interstate-69-bypass-obion-county-tennessee/7937940002/

The information that TDOT has on their site concerning the I-69 corridor is way out of date. On a separate, but related note, will the Union City Bypass be signed as I-69 when it opens, or will it be given a temporary designation until it's connected to another portion of I-69 that's not yet under construction, let alone finished?

They will probably just relocate US-51 until the intersection with US-45E is redone. It is most definitely not interstate standard.

In the 1960's they used to not care so much as we used to get jogged in and out of the Interstate highway and US highway all the time.

They may put up a joint sign with US-51 with a "Future" above the I-69 shield, so they can just remove it later.

Or maybe they could give the new freeway the temporary designation of US-51 BYPASS until either the Fulton interchange gets reconstructed or the Troy Bypass gets finished, whichever comes first.

I downloaded the plans for the section from west of TN21 to US 51 back when the project started and the signage shown for the bypass is I-69

So the FHWA is going to allow TDOT to have this orphaned section of I-69 signed as such, even though it doesn't connect to anything else yet?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: vdeane on August 29, 2021, 03:48:33 PM
Quote from: abqtraveler on August 29, 2021, 08:51:32 AM
So the FHWA is going to allow TDOT to have this orphaned section of I-69 signed as such, even though it doesn't connect to anything else yet?
Under federal law (I think it was the FAST Act), there's an exemption allowing I-69 to be signed even without a connection to the rest of the system, so long as said connection is planned to be built within 25 years.  That said, it may not apply here - OSM shows the Troy bypass as under construction as well, which would provide a freeway connection to I-155.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on August 29, 2021, 06:33:06 PM
Quote from: vdeane on August 29, 2021, 03:48:33 PM
Quote from: abqtraveler on August 29, 2021, 08:51:32 AM
So the FHWA is going to allow TDOT to have this orphaned section of I-69 signed as such, even though it doesn't connect to anything else yet?
Under federal law (I think it was the FAST Act), there's an exemption allowing I-69 to be signed even without a connection to the rest of the system, so long as said connection is planned to be built within 25 years.  That said, it may not apply here - OSM shows the Troy bypass as under construction as well, which would provide a freeway connection to I-155.

Kentucky has done this in stages. First section was along I-24 and the WK Parkway from the Purchase interchange to the Pennyrile interchange. Second section was on the Pennyrile north from the WK to the Henderson bypass. Third section was on the Purchase from I-24 south to Mayfield.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sprjus4 on August 29, 2021, 06:53:41 PM
^ Though in Kentucky's case, each added segment of I-69 connected to an existing interstate highway.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: vdeane on August 29, 2021, 08:50:01 PM
Yeah, this exemption isn't about being disconnected from the rest of the route (which is allowed for all interstates).  It's about not being connected to the rest of the system at all.  See I-69C/I-69E/I-2 in Texas.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on August 30, 2021, 09:30:32 PM
Quote from: vdeane on August 29, 2021, 08:50:01 PM
Yeah, this exemption isn't about being disconnected from the rest of the route (which is allowed for all interstates).  It's about not being connected to the rest of the system at all.  See I-69C/I-69E/I-2 in Texas.
I'm surprised they would allow that.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: vdeane on August 30, 2021, 09:35:55 PM
Quote from: abqtraveler on August 30, 2021, 09:30:32 PM
Quote from: vdeane on August 29, 2021, 08:50:01 PM
Yeah, this exemption isn't about being disconnected from the rest of the route (which is allowed for all interstates).  It's about not being connected to the rest of the system at all.  See I-69C/I-69E/I-2 in Texas.
I'm surprised they would allow that.
Unfortunately, I highly doubt there are any politicians out there who see the interstate system as anything other than a brand these days.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: MikieTimT on August 31, 2021, 12:34:11 PM
Quote from: vdeane on August 29, 2021, 03:48:33 PM
Quote from: abqtraveler on August 29, 2021, 08:51:32 AM
So the FHWA is going to allow TDOT to have this orphaned section of I-69 signed as such, even though it doesn't connect to anything else yet?
Under federal law (I think it was the FAST Act), there's an exemption allowing I-69 to be signed even without a connection to the rest of the system, so long as said connection is planned to be built within 25 years.  That said, it may not apply here - OSM shows the Troy bypass as under construction as well, which would provide a freeway connection to I-155.

Well with logic like that, AR-549 between AR-22 and US-71 south of Ft. Smith could be I-49 already.  No need for Future I-** on any segment up to code.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: vdeane on August 31, 2021, 12:53:02 PM
Quote from: MikieTimT on August 31, 2021, 12:34:11 PM
Quote from: vdeane on August 29, 2021, 03:48:33 PM
Quote from: abqtraveler on August 29, 2021, 08:51:32 AM
So the FHWA is going to allow TDOT to have this orphaned section of I-69 signed as such, even though it doesn't connect to anything else yet?
Under federal law (I think it was the FAST Act), there's an exemption allowing I-69 to be signed even without a connection to the rest of the system, so long as said connection is planned to be built within 25 years.  That said, it may not apply here - OSM shows the Troy bypass as under construction as well, which would provide a freeway connection to I-155.

Well with logic like that, AR-549 between AR-22 and US-71 south of Ft. Smith could be I-49 already.  No need for Future I-** on any segment up to code.
I know the exemption was for I-69 and one other interstate, but I'm not sure if I-49 was it (I-11, maybe?).  If not, it would have to follow the existing rules, as this didn't apply to all new interstates, just the ones so designated.  And in any case, AR might not be comfortable trying to guarantee that it would be connected to the rest of the system within 25 years.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: ethanhopkin14 on August 31, 2021, 01:09:51 PM
Quote from: vdeane on August 31, 2021, 12:53:02 PM
Quote from: MikieTimT on August 31, 2021, 12:34:11 PM
Quote from: vdeane on August 29, 2021, 03:48:33 PM
Quote from: abqtraveler on August 29, 2021, 08:51:32 AM
So the FHWA is going to allow TDOT to have this orphaned section of I-69 signed as such, even though it doesn't connect to anything else yet?
Under federal law (I think it was the FAST Act), there's an exemption allowing I-69 to be signed even without a connection to the rest of the system, so long as said connection is planned to be built within 25 years.  That said, it may not apply here - OSM shows the Troy bypass as under construction as well, which would provide a freeway connection to I-155.

Well with logic like that, AR-549 between AR-22 and US-71 south of Ft. Smith could be I-49 already.  No need for Future I-** on any segment up to code.
I know the exemption was for I-69 and one other interstate, but I'm not sure if I-49 was it (I-11, maybe?).  If not, it would have to follow the existing rules, as this didn't apply to all new interstates, just the ones so designated.  And in any case, AR might not be comfortable trying to guarantee that it would be connected to the rest of the system within 25 years.

I thought that law was a blanket law for any new interstate.  Have to go back and re-read that. 
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: MikieTimT on August 31, 2021, 01:27:23 PM
Quote from: vdeane on August 31, 2021, 12:53:02 PM
Quote from: MikieTimT on August 31, 2021, 12:34:11 PM
Quote from: vdeane on August 29, 2021, 03:48:33 PM
Quote from: abqtraveler on August 29, 2021, 08:51:32 AM
So the FHWA is going to allow TDOT to have this orphaned section of I-69 signed as such, even though it doesn't connect to anything else yet?
Under federal law (I think it was the FAST Act), there's an exemption allowing I-69 to be signed even without a connection to the rest of the system, so long as said connection is planned to be built within 25 years.  That said, it may not apply here - OSM shows the Troy bypass as under construction as well, which would provide a freeway connection to I-155.

Well with logic like that, AR-549 between AR-22 and US-71 south of Ft. Smith could be I-49 already.  No need for Future I-** on any segment up to code.
I know the exemption was for I-69 and one other interstate, but I'm not sure if I-49 was it (I-11, maybe?).  If not, it would have to follow the existing rules, as this didn't apply to all new interstates, just the ones so designated.  And in any case, AR might not be comfortable trying to guarantee that it would be connected to the rest of the system within 25 years.

That certainly could be true, although, they are pushing to get at least 2 lanes done hopefully before my 7 year old graduates college.  I don't know that I'm comfortable saying that I'll see I-49 completed between AR-22 and I-40 before my hopefully timely demise.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: ethanhopkin14 on September 01, 2021, 09:06:03 PM
Related to I-69 since it will share an alignment in the future, but can someone explain to me the first 3 mile posts if I-40 upon entering from the Hernando De Soto Bridge heading east.  I totally don't understand the 1A, 1B, 1C thing. I drove it Sunday and had never noticed it before.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Thegeet on September 01, 2021, 09:14:01 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on September 01, 2021, 09:06:03 PM
Related to I-69 since it will share an alignment in the future, but can someone explain to me the first 3 mile posts if I-40 upon entering from the Hernando De Soto Bridge heading east.  I totally don't understand the 1A, 1B, 1C thing. I drove it Sunday and had never noticed it before.
There are 3 exits on mile 1. To distinguish, they are assigned different letters. Exit A, Exit B, and Exit C.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: wriddle082 on September 02, 2021, 10:54:52 AM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on September 01, 2021, 09:06:03 PM
Related to I-69 since it will share an alignment in the future, but can someone explain to me the first 3 mile posts if I-40 upon entering from the Hernando De Soto Bridge heading east.  I totally don't understand the 1A, 1B, 1C thing. I drove it Sunday and had never noticed it before.

It is a tricky way to hide the fact that every bit of the I-40 mileage east of the western I-40/I-240 interchange is off.  All of I-40's mileage east of the eastern 40/240 interchange is based on the assumption that the Overton Park section of I-40 was to be completed.  And if that were the case, then I-240's mile 0 would have been at the 40/240 western interchange, increasing eastbound.  So since they didn't want to renumber every single exit and mile marker for almost 450 miles, they stretched out the first mile to take in both the state line mm 1 and the former beginning of I-240 mm 1 into mm 1, mm 1A, mm 1B, and mm 1C, though the actual exits increase to 1G (though I'm thinking this was always the case to alleviate confusion).  There is a missing mile marker in the vicinity of the eastern 40/240 interchange when the overall 40 mileage corrects itself back to the original (Overton Park section exists) mileage. 

The true overall mileage of I-40 in Tennessee is ~453 miles.  The last exit is numbered 451, but it is only ~1/4 mile away from the NC line.  Rerouting 40 onto the 240 northern loop added a couple of miles to the overall length.  If all of the mile markers were as they should be, that exit would have likely been 453, but they would have needed to change every single mile marker and exit number from mm 1A eastward, affecting a great majority of the state's population, so they chose not to do this.  The introduction of the blue reference markers a little over 20 years ago brought this mileage deception out into the open.

Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: ethanhopkin14 on September 02, 2021, 11:56:57 AM
Quote from: wriddle082 on September 02, 2021, 10:54:52 AM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on September 01, 2021, 09:06:03 PM
Related to I-69 since it will share an alignment in the future, but can someone explain to me the first 3 mile posts if I-40 upon entering from the Hernando De Soto Bridge heading east.  I totally don't understand the 1A, 1B, 1C thing. I drove it Sunday and had never noticed it before.

It is a tricky way to hide the fact that every bit of the I-40 mileage east of the western I-40/I-240 interchange is off.  All of I-40's mileage east of the eastern 40/240 interchange is based on the assumption that the Overton Park section of I-40 was to be completed.  And if that were the case, then I-240's mile 0 would have been at the 40/240 western interchange, increasing eastbound.  So since they didn't want to renumber every single exit and mile marker for almost 450 miles, they stretched out the first mile to take in both the state line mm 1 and the former beginning of I-240 mm 1 into mm 1, mm 1A, mm 1B, and mm 1C, though the actual exits increase to 1G (though I'm thinking this was always the case to alleviate confusion).  There is a missing mile marker in the vicinity of the eastern 40/240 interchange when the overall 40 mileage corrects itself back to the original (Overton Park section exists) mileage. 

The true overall mileage of I-40 in Tennessee is ~453 miles.  The last exit is numbered 451, but it is only ~1/4 mile away from the NC line.  Rerouting 40 onto the 240 northern loop added a couple of miles to the overall length.  If all of the mile markers were as they should be, that exit would have likely been 453, but they would have needed to change every single mile marker and exit number from mm 1A eastward, affecting a great majority of the state's population, so they chose not to do this.  The introduction of the blue reference markers a little over 20 years ago brought this mileage deception out into the open.

I had a feeling it had something to do with he abandoned Overton Park section and the fact that Sam Cooper Blvd. still has exit numbers (that should have been I-40's exit numbers).  That combined with the fact that the west I-40/I-240 intersection used to be mile 0 for what was I-240 on the north side of Memphis, which is now I-40.  I love your point of putting enhanced mile markers on I-40 actually caught their lies.  Like when someone takes a screen shot of something they are working on for someone else to follow along with, and in the screen shot is all the website tabs of the naughty websites they have open!!  Doing something good showed their ass a bit more. 

I just never knew they never corrected the I-40 mileage throughout Tennessee.  I thought since the Sam Cooper debacle happed so early on, they still had time to fix it as the rest of the state wasn't so firmly planted in the exit/mile marker numbering at the time. 

Thanks for clearing that up. 
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: MikeTheActuary on September 02, 2021, 12:24:09 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on September 02, 2021, 11:56:57 AM
I just never knew they never corrected the I-40 mileage throughout Tennessee.  I thought since the Sam Cooper debacle happed so early on, they still had time to fix it as the rest of the state wasn't so firmly planted in the exit/mile marker numbering at the time. 

Thanks for clearing that up. 

You can also see some of the wonkiness east of the eastern I-40/I-240 interchange (e.g. https://www.google.com/maps/@35.162466,-89.8684269,3a,20.5y,265.14h,93.72t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGXMt43Qv4TBU-VS7irruyg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192).   I believe something similar was done for I-65 when it was realigned around Nashville.

I wish Connecticut would consider doing something similar when it gets around to changing I-95 from sequential to mile-based numbering.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: wriddle082 on September 02, 2021, 06:33:40 PM
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on September 02, 2021, 12:24:09 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on September 02, 2021, 11:56:57 AM
I just never knew they never corrected the I-40 mileage throughout Tennessee.  I thought since the Sam Cooper debacle happed so early on, they still had time to fix it as the rest of the state wasn't so firmly planted in the exit/mile marker numbering at the time. 

Thanks for clearing that up. 

You can also see some of the wonkiness east of the eastern I-40/I-240 interchange (e.g. https://www.google.com/maps/@35.162466,-89.8684269,3a,20.5y,265.14h,93.72t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGXMt43Qv4TBU-VS7irruyg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192).   I believe something similar was done for I-65 when it was realigned around Nashville.

I wish Connecticut would consider doing something similar when it gets around to changing I-95 from sequential to mile-based numbering.

All they did for I-65 when it was rerouted around to the west portion of the Nashville Downtown Loop was bury any potential corrections in the I-40 duplex.  The exit numbers along that stretch are, and have always been, I-40 exit numbers.  Every mile marker and exit number north of the current southern/eastern I-24 split remained the same, and former I-265 mileage was tacked onto I-65 decreasing from that interchange (thus turning former I-265 Exit 1 into I-65 Exit 85).  And the former I-65 mileage on the east loop that found itself along I-24 only was renumbered with I-24 mileage and exit numbering, with no issues since I-24 never moved.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Life in Paradise on September 03, 2021, 12:09:29 PM
Quote from: wriddle082 on September 02, 2021, 06:33:40 PM
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on September 02, 2021, 12:24:09 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on September 02, 2021, 11:56:57 AM
I just never knew they never corrected the I-40 mileage throughout Tennessee.  I thought since the Sam Cooper debacle happed so early on, they still had time to fix it as the rest of the state wasn't so firmly planted in the exit/mile marker numbering at the time. 

Thanks for clearing that up. 

You can also see some of the wonkiness east of the eastern I-40/I-240 interchange (e.g. https://www.google.com/maps/@35.162466,-89.8684269,3a,20.5y,265.14h,93.72t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGXMt43Qv4TBU-VS7irruyg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192).   I believe something similar was done for I-65 when it was realigned around Nashville.

I wish Connecticut would consider doing something similar when it gets around to changing I-95 from sequential to mile-based numbering.

All they did for I-65 when it was rerouted around to the west portion of the Nashville Downtown Loop was bury any potential corrections in the I-40 duplex.  The exit numbers along that stretch are, and have always been, I-40 exit numbers.  Every mile marker and exit number north of the current southern/eastern I-24 split remained the same, and former I-265 mileage was tacked onto I-65 decreasing from that interchange (thus turning former I-265 Exit 1 into I-65 Exit 85).  And the former I-65 mileage on the east loop that found itself along I-24 only was renumbered with I-24 mileage and exit numbering, with no issues since I-24 never moved.
You do have to admit, looking at the map that I-65's change from one way around downtown Nashville to the other could be measured almost more by feet than miles.  I-265's old route with downtown I-40 is most likely very, very slightly longer.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on September 29, 2021, 10:36:01 AM
Ford just announced Blue Oval City in Stanton, TN.

https://www.thedrive.com/tech/42541/fords-biggest-investment-ever-is-11-4-billion-for-ev-battery-plants-in-the-south (https://www.thedrive.com/tech/42541/fords-biggest-investment-ever-is-11-4-billion-for-ev-battery-plants-in-the-south)

It will be about a hour NE of Memphis and 20 minutes from the planned route of I-69 at Covington.

It will make both EV's and batteries in a JV with SK and will cover 6 square miles.

It will cost Ford about $11.4 Billion to construct this "city".

SK will also build a battery plant near Glendale, KY, but that on will be off of I-65.

Look for a large amount of traffic on I-40/I-65 and US51/I-69/Wendell Ford if this new "city' comes to be.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Bobby5280 on September 29, 2021, 01:13:00 PM
The town of Stanton, TN is just a couple or miles North of I-40. It's likely Blue Oval City will be built closer to I-40, if not right adjacent to it.

The exit for TN-222 was recently upgraded and the route going North of I-40 was turned into a 4-lane divided highway. In Google Earth there is a fairly big plot of land labeled "Memphis Regional Megasite."
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Rothman on September 29, 2021, 06:33:15 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on September 29, 2021, 10:36:01 AM
Ford just announced Blue Oval City in Stanton, TN.

https://www.thedrive.com/tech/42541/fords-biggest-investment-ever-is-11-4-billion-for-ev-battery-plants-in-the-south (https://www.thedrive.com/tech/42541/fords-biggest-investment-ever-is-11-4-billion-for-ev-battery-plants-in-the-south)

It will be about a hour NE of Memphis and 20 minutes from the planned route of I-69 at Covington.

It will make both EV's and batteries in a JV with SK and will cover 6 square miles.

It will cost Ford about $11.4 Billion to construct this "city".

SK will also build a battery plant near Glendale, KY, but that on will be off of I-65.

Look for a large amount of traffic on I-40/I-65 and US51/I-69/Wendell Ford if this new "city' comes to be.
Eesh.  The return of the company town.

We have reverted to the Gilded Age.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: seicer on September 29, 2021, 07:25:59 PM
Except they are building a factory, not a town.

Both sites are along important (existing) interstate or interstate-compatible highways (I-65 and WK Parkway in Kentucky, I-40 in Tennessee), and along major rail lines. More importantly, both sites are near major Ford production facilities. For Kentucky, it's near a major assembly plant and the truck plant.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Wayward Memphian on September 29, 2021, 08:03:47 PM
It's an hr from Downtown Memphis, not so much from oh say US 64 and I-40.  Arlington and Lakeland are groing to benefit greatly, as well as Oakland and Somerville.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on September 30, 2021, 12:23:10 PM
It must be fairly near Brownsville, because I saw a photo of the Tennessee governor holding up a copy of the Brownsville paper trumpeting the announcement.

I think "city" is being used in a generic sense to describe the size of the campus, and not to denote a project where the company will be building housing and retail stores where the employees are paid in company scrip.

I've heard a similar description of "city" being used to discuss something Amazon's planning, which prompted the same comparison to coal mining company towns.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Life in Paradise on September 30, 2021, 12:25:12 PM
Quote from: seicer on September 29, 2021, 07:25:59 PM
Except they are building a factory, not a town.

Both sites are along important (existing) interstate or interstate-compatible highways (I-65 and WK Parkway in Kentucky, I-40 in Tennessee), and along major rail lines. More importantly, both sites are near major Ford production facilities. For Kentucky, it's near a major assembly plant and the truck plant.
I could see Ford or any other manufacturer in this instance negotiating some road improvements that could include I-69 construction in Tennessee.  Even though the two plants can be traveled via I-40 and I-65, I-69 and the Western KY Parkway could be a much easier drive avoiding Nashville.  Completing I-69 with perhaps a four lane road connecting Stanton to Covington could help send shipments north and northwest (via I-155 and St. Louis) to avoid the Memphis metro.  Heck, if Illinois could build I-180 at one time for that Hennepin plant, what could be done for a much bigger operation?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on October 01, 2021, 11:17:41 AM
If I'm not mistaken, the KY 222 bridge over I-65 was rebuilt as part of the I-65 widening at the Glendale exit. There's a project in Kentucky's six-year plan to rebuild the interchange yet again, with a new bridge to be built to the south of the existing one.

That seems wasteful to me. The state has had an option (or owned outright) the land where the Ford facility is going to be built for years. They should have included the rebuild of the KY 222 interchange as part of the original I-65 widening.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: wriddle082 on October 01, 2021, 05:41:29 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 01, 2021, 11:17:41 AM
If I'm not mistaken, the KY 222 bridge over I-65 was rebuilt as part of the I-65 widening at the Glendale exit. There's a project in Kentucky's six-year plan to rebuild the interchange yet again, with a new bridge to be built to the south of the existing one.

You bring something to light that just occurred to me.  The Tennessee Ford complex will be built along TN 222, and the Kentucky Ford complex will be built along KY 222.  Very odd coincidence!
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on October 01, 2021, 07:47:14 PM
Quote from: wriddle082 on October 01, 2021, 05:41:29 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 01, 2021, 11:17:41 AM
If I'm not mistaken, the KY 222 bridge over I-65 was rebuilt as part of the I-65 widening at the Glendale exit. There's a project in Kentucky's six-year plan to rebuild the interchange yet again, with a new bridge to be built to the south of the existing one.

You bring something to light that just occurred to me.  The Tennessee Ernie Ford complex will be built along TN 222, and the Kentucky Ford complex will be built along KY 222.  Very odd coincidence!

FIFY.  :-D :-D :-D
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Scott5114 on October 01, 2021, 09:55:11 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 01, 2021, 07:47:14 PM
Quote from: wriddle082 on October 01, 2021, 05:41:29 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 01, 2021, 11:17:41 AM
If I'm not mistaken, the KY 222 bridge over I-65 was rebuilt as part of the I-65 widening at the Glendale exit. There's a project in Kentucky's six-year plan to rebuild the interchange yet again, with a new bridge to be built to the south of the existing one.

You bring something to light that just occurred to me.  The Tennessee Ernie Ford complex will be built along TN 222, and the Kentucky Ford complex will be built along KY 222.  Very odd coincidence!

FIFY.  :-D :-D :-D

what is it with AARoads members from Kentucky bringing up people named Ernie at inappropriate times
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on October 02, 2021, 02:07:58 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 01, 2021, 09:55:11 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 01, 2021, 07:47:14 PM
Quote from: wriddle082 on October 01, 2021, 05:41:29 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 01, 2021, 11:17:41 AM
If I'm not mistaken, the KY 222 bridge over I-65 was rebuilt as part of the I-65 widening at the Glendale exit. There's a project in Kentucky's six-year plan to rebuild the interchange yet again, with a new bridge to be built to the south of the existing one.

You bring something to light that just occurred to me.  The Tennessee Ernie Ford complex will be built along TN 222, and the Kentucky Ford complex will be built along KY 222.  Very odd coincidence!

FIFY.  :-D :-D :-D

what is it with AARoads members from Kentucky bringing up people named Ernie at inappropriate times

Hey, you see an opportunity to make a bad pun, you take it.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Thegeet on October 02, 2021, 02:40:01 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 01, 2021, 09:55:11 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 01, 2021, 07:47:14 PM
Quote from: wriddle082 on October 01, 2021, 05:41:29 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 01, 2021, 11:17:41 AM
If I'm not mistaken, the KY 222 bridge over I-65 was rebuilt as part of the I-65 widening at the Glendale exit. There's a project in Kentucky's six-year plan to rebuild the interchange yet again, with a new bridge to be built to the south of the existing one.

You bring something to light that just occurred to me.  The Tennessee Ernie Ford complex will be built along TN 222, and the Kentucky Ford complex will be built along KY 222.  Very odd coincidence!

FIFY.  :-D :-D :-D

what is it with AARoads members from Kentucky bringing up people named Ernie at inappropriate times
What's wrong with Ernie?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: I-39 on October 06, 2021, 10:22:45 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 01, 2021, 11:17:41 AM
If I'm not mistaken, the KY 222 bridge over I-65 was rebuilt as part of the I-65 widening at the Glendale exit. There's a project in Kentucky's six-year plan to rebuild the interchange yet again, with a new bridge to be built to the south of the existing one.

That seems wasteful to me. The state has had an option (or owned outright) the land where the Ford facility is going to be built for years. They should have included the rebuild of the KY 222 interchange as part of the original I-65 widening.

It doesn't look like the TN 222 interchange was rebuilt, if Google street view is any indication. The bridge looks old.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Chrysler375Freeway on October 23, 2021, 01:57:56 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 21, 2021, 01:18:20 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 19, 2021, 01:50:58 PM
Maybe this has been covered before, but what will happen to the western side of I-240 when I-69 is completed in Tennessee?  I imagine it will be treated like I-635 was when I-20 was routed on it's southern leg.  If so, is there another instance when a full beltway 3DI had multiple sections of it's route re-numbered for a main route of multiple 2DIs, making the 3DI a shell of it's former self?

Funnily enough something similar happened to another I-240, the one in Oklahoma City–it once was a ¾ beltway around OKC, but the west and north legs got renumbered to I-44 in 1982.
Speaking of that, I-240's designation will be extended to become a full beltway following:
I-44
SR 152
John Kilpatrick Tpk.
I-44 (I-35 to Kickapoo Tpk. section)
Kickapoo Tpk.
I-40
It's a continuous route, but it requires multiple overlaps with the state highway system.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: wriddle082 on October 23, 2021, 02:16:26 AM
Quote from: I-39 on October 06, 2021, 10:22:45 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 01, 2021, 11:17:41 AM
If I'm not mistaken, the KY 222 bridge over I-65 was rebuilt as part of the I-65 widening at the Glendale exit. There's a project in Kentucky's six-year plan to rebuild the interchange yet again, with a new bridge to be built to the south of the existing one.

That seems wasteful to me. The state has had an option (or owned outright) the land where the Ford facility is going to be built for years. They should have included the rebuild of the KY 222 interchange as part of the original I-65 widening.

It doesn't look like the TN 222 interchange was rebuilt, if Google street view is any indication. The bridge looks old.

Yes I believe the bridge is original, but it's always looked decent, meaning that it may have been reconditioned at some point in time.  Probably in the 80's because I don't remember it being done.  And the ramps at that I-40 diamond interchange are much longer than you would expect to see on a circa early-60's Tennessee freeway.  Now I'm wondering if the ramps were added in the 80's at the same time the bridge was theoretically reconditioned...
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Scott5114 on October 23, 2021, 01:52:12 PM
Quote from: Chrysler375Freeway on October 23, 2021, 01:57:56 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 21, 2021, 01:18:20 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 19, 2021, 01:50:58 PM
Maybe this has been covered before, but what will happen to the western side of I-240 when I-69 is completed in Tennessee?  I imagine it will be treated like I-635 was when I-20 was routed on it's southern leg.  If so, is there another instance when a full beltway 3DI had multiple sections of it's route re-numbered for a main route of multiple 2DIs, making the 3DI a shell of it's former self?

Funnily enough something similar happened to another I-240, the one in Oklahoma City–it once was a ¾ beltway around OKC, but the west and north legs got renumbered to I-44 in 1982.
Speaking of that, I-240's designation will be extended to become a full beltway following:
I-44
SR 152
John Kilpatrick Tpk.
I-44 (I-35 to Kickapoo Tpk. section)
Kickapoo Tpk.
I-40
It's a continuous route, but it requires multiple overlaps with the state highway system.

I know, I watched the Transportation Commission approve it live (and posted here less than a minute after the vote). :P But it wasn't relevant to the point I was making.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Mapmikey on October 23, 2021, 02:09:03 PM
Quote from: wriddle082 on October 23, 2021, 02:16:26 AM
Quote from: I-39 on October 06, 2021, 10:22:45 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 01, 2021, 11:17:41 AM
If I'm not mistaken, the KY 222 bridge over I-65 was rebuilt as part of the I-65 widening at the Glendale exit. There's a project in Kentucky's six-year plan to rebuild the interchange yet again, with a new bridge to be built to the south of the existing one.

That seems wasteful to me. The state has had an option (or owned outright) the land where the Ford facility is going to be built for years. They should have included the rebuild of the KY 222 interchange as part of the original I-65 widening.

It doesn't look like the TN 222 interchange was rebuilt, if Google street view is any indication. The bridge looks old.

Yes I believe the bridge is original, but it's always looked decent, meaning that it may have been reconditioned at some point in time.  Probably in the 80's because I don't remember it being done.  And the ramps at that I-40 diamond interchange are much longer than you would expect to see on a circa early-60's Tennessee freeway.  Now I'm wondering if the ramps were added in the 80's at the same time the bridge was theoretically reconditioned...


The long ramps were already present in the 1980 historic aerial.  The ramps where they meet TN 222, especially on the south side of the interchange were redone about 2014.

The 1970 Fayette County map shows a diamond interchange there - https://vintageaerial.com/scanned_maps/TN-Fayette-80-02
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Ryctor2018 on November 20, 2021, 11:06:36 PM
I drove down to Memphis, driving I-69 thru western Kentucky then crossing into Tennessee. Around Union City, progress is going well at the eastern I-69/US-51 interchange. Unfortunately I was pressed for time and could not take pictures of the interchange. From the looks of it, the flyovers are coming along nicely. The ramps are graded, but still need paving. Traffic was shifted to the nb US-51 carriageway. I would imagine the interchange will be finished by Spring 2022.

I could not let the trip go to a complete waste. So, I drove up TN-21 north to the unopened interchange with I-69 to check it out before the sunset. Below are the four pics I quickly took. I added links as the file sizes are rather large.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194446137@N03/51693048322/in/album-72157720172236422/
Future I-69/TN-21 eastbound zoomed view

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194446137@N03/51693046892/in/album-72157720172236422/
Future I-69/TN-21 westbound zoomed view
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on November 21, 2021, 01:40:28 AM
Quote from: Ryctor2018 on November 20, 2021, 11:06:36 PM
I drove down to Memphis, driving I-69 thru western Kentucky then crossing into Tennessee. Around Union City, progress is going well at the eastern I-69/US-51 interchange. Unfortunately I was pressed for time and could not take pictures of the interchange. From the looks of it, the flyovers are coming along nicely. The ramps are graded, but still need paving. Traffic was shifted to the nb US-51 carriageway. I would imagine the interchange will be finished by Spring 2022.

I could not let the trip go to a complete waste. So, I drove up TN-21 north to the unopened interchange with I-69 to check it out before the sunset. Below are the four pics I quickly took. I added links as the file sizes are rather large.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194446137@N03/51693048322/in/album-72157720172236422/
Future I-69/TN-21 eastbound zoomed view

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194446137@N03/51693046892/in/album-72157720172236422/
Future I-69/TN-21 westbound zoomed view

Thanks for this! Last I came through it was just a bunch of dirt & gravel trucks going up and down Perry Browder Road.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on November 23, 2021, 08:16:36 AM
Quote from: edwaleni on November 21, 2021, 01:40:28 AM
Quote from: Ryctor2018 on November 20, 2021, 11:06:36 PM
I drove down to Memphis, driving I-69 thru western Kentucky then crossing into Tennessee. Around Union City, progress is going well at the eastern I-69/US-51 interchange. Unfortunately I was pressed for time and could not take pictures of the interchange. From the looks of it, the flyovers are coming along nicely. The ramps are graded, but still need paving. Traffic was shifted to the nb US-51 carriageway. I would imagine the interchange will be finished by Spring 2022.

I could not let the trip go to a complete waste. So, I drove up TN-21 north to the unopened interchange with I-69 to check it out before the sunset. Below are the four pics I quickly took. I added links as the file sizes are rather large.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194446137@N03/51693048322/in/album-72157720172236422/
Future I-69/TN-21 eastbound zoomed view

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194446137@N03/51693046892/in/album-72157720172236422/
Future I-69/TN-21 westbound zoomed view

Thanks for this! Last I came through it was just a bunch of dirt & gravel trucks going up and down Perry Browder Road.

It looks like the unpaved section to the West is the original I-69 construction from 2012.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on November 23, 2021, 09:15:19 AM
Now with the $1T Bipartisan Infrastructure (cough...pork) Bill signed into law, will TDOT be moving ahead with getting the bypass around Troy, and the interchange at South Fulton finished?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: mvak36 on November 23, 2021, 09:27:42 AM
Quote from: abqtraveler on November 23, 2021, 09:15:19 AM
Now with the $1T Bipartisan Infrastructure (cough...pork) Bill signed into law, will TDOT be moving ahead with getting the bypass around Troy, and the interchange at South Fulton finished?

I could be wrong but I thought those projects were already in the Improve Act. I can't go and check it unfortunately since they disabled the map that showed all the projects.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on November 23, 2021, 10:15:05 AM
Quote from: abqtraveler on November 23, 2021, 09:15:19 AM
Now with the $1T Bipartisan Infrastructure (cough...pork) Bill signed into law, will TDOT be moving ahead with getting the bypass around Troy, and the interchange at South Fulton finished?

I'm not sure how much of that South Fulton work will be TDOT's responsibility, and how much will be KYTC's, since they'll definitely have to do some of the work on the north side of the state line.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: CoolAngrybirdsrio4 on December 06, 2021, 05:06:08 AM
From TDOT back a few weeks ago:

QuoteOBION COUNTY, Future I-69 (Phase 3): Grading, drainage, construction of bridges and paving on future I-69 from west of SR 21 to US 51 (SR 3) will cause possible lane closures throughout the project. Thursday, September 16, 2021: Speed limit will be reduced to 55 MPH in the NBL from LM 21.8 to LM 24.0 & LM 21.0 to LM 26.45 and 45 MPH in the SBL from LM 30.1 to LM 26.55 & LM 26.0 to LM 24.45. Tuesday, October 13, 2020: Bethlehem Road north from Clifford Rives Road to Lindenwood Road closed. Claude Tucker Road north from Cloys Road to Section Line Road closed. Detour routes are posted.

Source: https://www.tn.gov/tdot/news/2021/11/10/west-tennessee-weekly-construction-november-10-17--2021.html
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Avalanchez71 on December 06, 2021, 02:12:51 PM
If one area did not need an upgrade it is this area.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on December 06, 2021, 03:30:23 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on December 06, 2021, 02:12:51 PM
If one area did not need an upgrade it is this area.

Actually, the Union City bypass was the most-needed upgrade. Offhand, I can't think of any other traffic light-lade stretch between Fulton and Dyersburg.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sprjus4 on December 06, 2021, 03:38:39 PM
^ The Troy to Union City stretch is the only portion of Fulton to Dyersburg that's not already up to full interstate standards.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on December 08, 2021, 08:06:53 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on December 06, 2021, 03:38:39 PM
^ The Troy to Union City stretch is the only portion of Fulton to Dyersburg that's not already up to full interstate standards.
Only the Union City Bypass is under construction at this time. TDOT will start construction on the Troy Bypass after the Union City stretch is done, but there's no timeline for that yet.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on December 11, 2021, 05:38:33 PM
I checked the Google Earth this AM and noticed many road closures that followed the route of that tornado that traveled over 200 miles.

Road closures started west and in Hayti MO in the bootheel across Tenn and KY on the west ends,

Appears it crossed I-69 west of Mayfield around 10:30PM last night and then went and destroyed the town.

I-69 is still showing as shutdown from Mayfield back to Benton due to overturned trucks and debris.

Other road closures along I-69 includes Cambridge Springs, Princeton, Dawson Springs, south of Madisonville where they are still cleaning up the aftermath on I-69. On to Bremen, Hartford.

You could almost calls this the "I-69 tornado"

Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: ilpt4u on December 11, 2021, 05:45:38 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on December 11, 2021, 05:38:33 PM
I checked the Google Earth this AM and noticed many road closures that followed the route of that tornado that traveled over 200 miles.

Road closures started west and in Hayti MO in the bootheel across Tenn and KY on the west ends,

Appears it crossed I-69 west of Mayfield around 10:30PM last night and then went and destroyed the town.

I-69 is still showing as shutdown from Mayfield back to Benton due to overturned trucks and debris.

Other road closures along I-69 includes Cambridge Springs, Princeton, Dawson Springs, south of Madisonville where they are still cleaning up the aftermath on I-69. On to Bremen, Hartford.

You could almost calls this the "I-69 tornado"
Probably a better fit as part of the thread on the tornado on the Weather board: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=30668.0

FWIW, I had that thought, too, watching the news coverage last night on WPSD
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on December 11, 2021, 05:47:29 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on December 11, 2021, 05:45:38 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on December 11, 2021, 05:38:33 PM
I checked the Google Earth this AM and noticed many road closures that followed the route of that tornado that traveled over 200 miles.

Road closures started west and in Hayti MO in the bootheel across Tenn and KY on the west ends,

Appears it crossed I-69 west of Mayfield around 10:30PM last night and then went and destroyed the town.

I-69 is still showing as shutdown from Mayfield back to Benton due to overturned trucks and debris.

Other road closures along I-69 includes Cambridge Springs, Princeton, Dawson Springs, south of Madisonville where they are still cleaning up the aftermath on I-69. On to Bremen, Hartford.

You could almost calls this the "I-69 tornado"
Probably a better fit as part of the thread on the tornado on the Weather board: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=30668.0

FWIW, I had that thought, too, watching the news coverage last night on WPSD

Thanks for the tip. I was looking to see where the most appropriate spot was. Now I see road closures going back all the way to just east of Jonesboro AR. This was a bad one for sure.

I will post over there.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on January 11, 2022, 11:00:38 PM
Google Maps now has updated satellite images showing the completed TN 21 interchange and construction going East to the US 51 interchange.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sprjus4 on January 11, 2022, 11:40:30 PM
What is the purpose of the flyover between US-51 North and I-69 South at the northern end of the project?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on January 12, 2022, 12:30:26 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on January 11, 2022, 11:40:30 PM
What is the purpose of the flyover between US-51 North and I-69 South at the northern end of the project?
Two reasons: to connect the TN-22 freeway to I-69 NB and SB, and to also allow traffic from the north end of Union City to access I-69 SB without having to go through Union City.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on January 12, 2022, 12:32:49 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on January 11, 2022, 11:00:38 PM
Google Maps now has updated satellite images showing the completed TN 21 interchange and construction going East to the US 51 interchange.
Yes, and it also shows initial paving around the TN-21 interchange. It looks like they haven't done any paving from TN-21 to US-51 south of Union City.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Ryctor2018 on January 12, 2022, 02:19:54 PM
That's what I saw when I visited the area last November. Most of the activity centered around the northern US-51/Future I-69 interchange. Paving should not take that long since the rest of the road is graded. Once the last interchanges and bridges are completed this year, paving should move along quickly. Depending on how the weather holds up, the entire bypass could be paved by the end of the year.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: CoolAngrybirdsrio4 on January 13, 2022, 12:25:57 AM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on January 11, 2022, 11:00:38 PM
Google Maps now has updated satellite images showing the completed TN 21 interchange and construction going East to the US 51 interchange.

Looks like part of the freeway pavement is done at the interchange with TN 21, and part of the interchange at US 51 is under construction with two flyover ramps.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Ryctor2018 on February 20, 2022, 05:51:23 PM
I traveled from Memphis to Indianapolis following the route of I-69 this past weekend. For the Mid-South board, I stopped by the construction zone around Union City to check the progress. Looks like the flyovers at the north US-51/I-69 interchange are attached. The interchange is far from complete, but once Spring commences the work can proceed steadily. The road west of TN-21 still was not paved (nor was i expecting it). The bridge for I-69 over Section Line road is in the early stages; only earthwork is completed. The piers, columns, girders and everything else is needed. However, the road near the south US-51/I-69 interchange is paved with a layer of asphalt. So it looks like the middle bend west of town needs the initial pavement laid, then more layers will be added. I've added a few pictures of the south interchange, plus took pics of the TN-21/I-69 interchange again.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194446137@N03/51892754912/in/album-72157720172236422/
Facing southbound N of US-51

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194446137@N03/51894054809/in/album-72157720172236422/
Slightly different angle of US-51 exit

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194446137@N03/51893717406/in/album-72157720172236422/
Looking nb on future I-69 north of US-51

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194446137@N03/51892756912/in/album-72157720172236422/
Pic of US-51 interchange looking SW

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194446137@N03/51894372540/in/album-72157720172236422/
Facing east TN-21/I-69 interchange

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194446137@N03/51893807998/in/album-72157720172236422/
Facing west TN-21/I-69 interchange
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on February 20, 2022, 07:37:11 PM
Quote from: Ryctor2018 on February 20, 2022, 05:51:23 PM
I traveled from Memphis to Indianapolis following the route of I-69 this past weekend. For the Mid-South board, I stopped by the construction zone around Union City to check the progress. Looks like the flyovers at the north US-51/I-69 interchange are attached. The interchange is far from complete, but once Spring commences the work can proceed steadily. The road west of TN-21 still was not paved (nor was i expecting it). The bridge for I-69 over Section Line road is in the early stages; only earthwork is completed. The piers, columns, girders and everything else is needed. However, the road near the south US-51/I-69 interchange is paved with a layer of asphalt. So it looks like the middle bend west of town needs the initial pavement laid, then more layers will be added. I've added a few pictures of the south interchange, plus took pics of the TN-21/I-69 interchange again.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194446137@N03/51892754912/in/album-72157720172236422/
Facing southbound N of US-51

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194446137@N03/51894054809/in/album-72157720172236422/
Slightly different angle of US-51 exit

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194446137@N03/51893717406/in/album-72157720172236422/
Looking nb on future I-69 north of US-51

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194446137@N03/51892756912/in/album-72157720172236422/
Pic of US-51 interchange looking SW

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194446137@N03/51894372540/in/album-72157720172236422/
Facing east TN-21/I-69 interchange

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194446137@N03/51893807998/in/album-72157720172236422/
Facing west TN-21/I-69 interchange

First off, thank you for taking the time to update everyone here.

Your pictures in Flickr are marked private. You must make them "public" for the links to work properly.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Thegeet on February 20, 2022, 11:08:34 PM
Quote from: Ryctor2018 on February 20, 2022, 05:51:23 PM
I traveled from Memphis to Indianapolis following the route of I-69 this past weekend. For the Mid-South board, I stopped by the construction zone around Union City to check the progress. Looks like the flyovers at the north US-51/I-69 interchange are attached. The interchange is far from complete, but once Spring commences the work can proceed steadily. The road west of TN-21 still was not paved (nor was i expecting it). The bridge for I-69 over Section Line road is in the early stages; only earthwork is completed. The piers, columns, girders and everything else is needed. However, the road near the south US-51/I-69 interchange is paved with a layer of asphalt. So it looks like the middle bend west of town needs the initial pavement laid, then more layers will be added. I've added a few pictures of the south interchange, plus took pics of the TN-21/I-69 interchange again.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194446137@N03/51892754912/in/album-72157720172236422/
Facing southbound N of US-51

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194446137@N03/51894054809/in/album-72157720172236422/
Slightly different angle of US-51 exit

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194446137@N03/51893717406/in/album-72157720172236422/
Looking nb on future I-69 north of US-51

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194446137@N03/51892756912/in/album-72157720172236422/
Pic of US-51 interchange looking SW

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194446137@N03/51894372540/in/album-72157720172236422/
Facing east TN-21/I-69 interchange

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194446137@N03/51893807998/in/album-72157720172236422/
Facing west TN-21/I-69 interchange
I can't see the pics.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Great Lakes Roads on February 21, 2022, 12:44:47 AM
Quote from: Ryctor2018 on February 20, 2022, 05:51:23 PM
I traveled from Memphis to Indianapolis following the route of I-69 this past weekend. For the Mid-South board, I stopped by the construction zone around Union City to check the progress. Looks like the flyovers at the north US-51/I-69 interchange are attached. The interchange is far from complete, but once Spring commences the work can proceed steadily. The road west of TN-21 still was not paved (nor was i expecting it). The bridge for I-69 over Section Line road is in the early stages; only earthwork is completed. The piers, columns, girders and everything else is needed. However, the road near the south US-51/I-69 interchange is paved with a layer of asphalt. So it looks like the middle bend west of town needs the initial pavement laid, then more layers will be added. I've added a few pictures of the south interchange, plus took pics of the TN-21/I-69 interchange again.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194446137@N03/51892754912/in/album-72157720172236422/
Facing southbound N of US-51

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194446137@N03/51894054809/in/album-72157720172236422/
Slightly different angle of US-51 exit

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194446137@N03/51893717406/in/album-72157720172236422/
Looking nb on future I-69 north of US-51

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194446137@N03/51892756912/in/album-72157720172236422/
Pic of US-51 interchange looking SW

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194446137@N03/51894372540/in/album-72157720172236422/
Facing east TN-21/I-69 interchange

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194446137@N03/51893807998/in/album-72157720172236422/
Facing west TN-21/I-69 interchange

I can't see the pictures as well.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Ryctor2018 on February 21, 2022, 05:54:28 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on February 20, 2022, 07:37:11 PM
Quote from: Ryctor2018 on February 20, 2022, 05:51:23 PM
I traveled from Memphis to Indianapolis following the route of I-69 this past weekend. For the Mid-South board, I stopped by the construction zone around Union City to check the progress. Looks like the flyovers at the north US-51/I-69 interchange are attached. The interchange is far from complete, but once Spring commences the work can proceed steadily. The road west of TN-21 still was not paved (nor was i expecting it). The bridge for I-69 over Section Line road is in the early stages; only earthwork is completed. The piers, columns, girders and everything else is needed. However, the road near the south US-51/I-69 interchange is paved with a layer of asphalt. So it looks like the middle bend west of town needs the initial pavement laid, then more layers will be added. I've added a few pictures of the south interchange, plus took pics of the TN-21/I-69 interchange again.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194446137@N03/51892754912/in/album-72157720172236422/
Facing southbound N of US-51

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194446137@N03/51894054809/in/album-72157720172236422/
Slightly different angle of US-51 exit

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194446137@N03/51893717406/in/album-72157720172236422/
Looking nb on future I-69 north of US-51

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194446137@N03/51892756912/in/album-72157720172236422/
Pic of US-51 interchange looking SW

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194446137@N03/51894372540/in/album-72157720172236422/
Facing east TN-21/I-69 interchange

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194446137@N03/51893807998/in/album-72157720172236422/
Facing west TN-21/I-69 interchange

First off, thank you for taking the time to update everyone here.

Your pictures in Flickr are marked private. You must make them "public" for the links to work properly.

Sorry guys. Everyone should see the pictures now.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: bmeiser on February 21, 2022, 07:34:45 PM
Weird to not see any construction equipment on an unfinished project.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on February 21, 2022, 09:17:54 PM
Quote from: bmeiser on February 21, 2022, 07:34:45 PM
Weird to not see any construction equipment on an unfinished project.

Same thoughts. I know they are working over at US-51 north of town as I have seen the cranes.

But to see miles of nothing but bare base asphalt and no work is concerning.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: triplemultiplex on February 22, 2022, 02:32:19 PM
Par for the course with that project.  It's been under construction for 12 bloody years and STILL not done.  That's the height of absurdity for a relatively simple project over pancake-flat terrain.
Indiana has build dozens of miles of I-69 over the same time period.  I know we've been over why many times, but that doesn't change the fact that it sucks.  It reflects badly on the state and frankly, the country as a whole.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sprjus4 on February 22, 2022, 05:13:56 PM
^ Indiana built over 100 miles in that time.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: froggie on February 23, 2022, 03:08:02 AM
Two things to point out here.  First, northwestern Tennessee is *NOT* flat as a pancake.  Sure, it's not as hilly as central or eastern Tennessee, but it's not flat either.

Second, Indiana used a not-small quantity of bonding dollars to pay for their I-69 projects.  Tennessee does not do bonding for road projects...they are strictly a pay-as-you-go state.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Bobby5280 on February 23, 2022, 10:21:08 AM
Maybe Tennessee needs to make some changes.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on February 23, 2022, 10:28:16 AM
Quote from: froggie on February 23, 2022, 03:08:02 AM
Two things to point out here.  First, northwestern Tennessee is *NOT* flat as a pancake.  Sure, it's not as hilly as central or eastern Tennessee, but it's not flat either.

Second, Indiana used a not-small quantity of bonding dollars to pay for their I-69 projects.  Tennessee does not do bonding for road projects...they are strictly a pay-as-you-go state.

Indiana was using the Toll Road as its cash cow to pay for I-69 and other projects. That started with the $3.8 billion windfall the state got when they initially leased the Toll Road back in 2006. Then they got another $600 million infusion from the Toll Road to accelerate the Martinsville-Indy section of I-69 when they renegotiated the lease a few years ago.

Unfortunately, Tennessee doesn't have such an asset that they can leverage, they don't borrow money to pay for road construction, and Congress has pretty much gotten out of the business of earmarking funds for specific projects. So Tennessee does what they can with what they have. I remember folks in Tennessee talked at one point for building some or all of I-69 as a toll road, but it appears that concept never gained traction.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: ITB on February 23, 2022, 01:14:27 PM
I, too, wish to express thanks for the photos. Much appreciated! I'd like to mention that from Flickr it's very easy to post the actual pictures in the forum thread. Just use the BBCode function found under the Arrow icon, select the size (large usually works well), fully copy the URL code and then paste in the reply box, and then trim everything out except the stuff between img and /img, keeping the brackets around those two elements intact. (My initial reply eliminated those brackets in the reply, so I'm editing to include that information.) Test how it will look by using the Preview function before actually posting.

Example:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51892754912_f39042ca42_k.jpg)

Now about Tennessee and I-69. To be sure, it's a low-to-medium priority in the state. While frustrating to me and to many others, it's understandable. While western Tennessee has generally remained stagnant, population wise, the Nashville region has been booming. Logically, it only makes sense to devote limited fiscal resources to where growth is occurring. The state of Tennessee has committed to completing I-69 to I-155, and it will do so, but, unfortunately, it's just been a slow ... slow ... slow process. One has to wonder if the recently announced huge automotive battery facility, if it actually moves forward, will speed things up a bit. Good chance it will

Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Ryctor2018 on February 23, 2022, 01:52:03 PM
Thanks for the suggestion ITB. I may do that the next time I'm in western TN. As for the I-69 project, perhaps the counties that I-69 passes thru can take a page from Missouri with US-36. Implement a millage to pay for construction of the road. The one in Missouri was paid off in what, about 10 years? I think even less. The project in west TN is not very long; if a millage could work (perhaps the law would need changing for this to work), the road could be completed to Dyersburg before 2030. I'm even including the tie-in with the Purchase Pkwy section of I-69.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on February 23, 2022, 04:07:54 PM
Quote from: Ryctor2018 on February 23, 2022, 01:52:03 PM
Thanks for the suggestion ITB. I may do that the next time I'm in western TN. As for the I-69 project, perhaps the counties that I-69 passes thru can take a page from Missouri with US-36. Implement a millage to pay for construction of the road. The one in Missouri was paid off in what, about 10 years? I think even less. The project in west TN is not very long; if a millage could work (perhaps the law would need changing for this to work), the road could be completed to Dyersburg before 2030. I'm even including the tie-in with the Purchase Pkwy section of I-69.
IIRC, that millage in Missouri to upgrade US-36 was approved by the voters of the counties through which US-36 passed, with the ultimate goal of upgrading US-36 to I-72. However, the money ran out before US-36 was fully converted to interstate grade-but it's now pretty much nonstop 4-lane highway with some at-grade intersections from the end of I-72 at Hannibal to I-35 in Cameron. It's still possible that this section could become I-72 someday should a new source of funding be found to complete the remaining required upgrades to interstate standards.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on February 24, 2022, 01:18:14 PM
I wouldn't hold my breath on an Interstate 72 westward extension, just like I wouldn't on Interstate 69 being constructed bewteen Dyersburg and Memphis. Nor would I hold my breath for the short Mississippi segment of Interstate 69 connecting with the one in Texas.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Ryctor2018 on February 25, 2022, 01:11:16 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 24, 2022, 01:18:14 PM
I wouldn't hold my breath on an Interstate 72 westward extension, just like I wouldn't on Interstate 69 being constructed bewteen Dyersburg and Memphis. Nor would I hold my breath for the short Mississippi segment of Interstate 69 connecting with the one in Texas.

It's taking a long time just to get the section between Dyersburg & Fulton, KY upgraded to I-69. Unless the piggy bank is cracked open for west TN, it may take a 100 yrs to build south to Memphis! Something like what's done in Missouri maybe their only hope. Priorities may shift with that new plant for Covington, though I would imagine incremental improvements first.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: roadman65 on July 20, 2022, 05:32:19 PM
Why is the Union City Bypass not yet done. Satellite imagery shows it well graded. In 2020 I saw bridges north of Troy up where US 51 and I-69 are to exchange. You mean in two years nothing has been done even to open part of it for locals?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: seicer on July 20, 2022, 05:33:25 PM
It's not like the old bypass is that congested. I know that Tennessee takes its time on highway construction and planning because its reluctance to take on debt but... this is painfully slow.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: ARMOURERERIC on July 20, 2022, 07:28:43 PM
Still not as bad as the Shelby NC bypass
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on July 20, 2022, 11:22:11 PM
Quote from: seicer on July 20, 2022, 05:33:25 PM
It's not like the old bypass is that congested. I know that Tennessee takes its time on highway construction and planning because its reluctance to take on debt but... this is painfully slow.

We are up to what 12 years since the dirt first turned over?

Google Maps history show dirt at US-51 as far back as 2009.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: seicer on July 21, 2022, 09:31:38 PM
Someone posted those roads in... Alabama that have been graded with some bridges built having sat idle for a decade +.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: ilpt4u on July 21, 2022, 10:12:42 PM
Quote from: seicer on July 21, 2022, 09:31:38 PM
Someone posted those roads in... Alabama that have been graded with some bridges built having sat idle for a decade +.
That is nothing. Sections of US 50 in Illinois have grading done for a second carriageway with the second carriageway bridges over creeks built, and they have been there, unused, for decades. i believe these were built out when US 50 was still to be the routing of I-64. Been abandoned for just as bit now
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Revive 755 on July 21, 2022, 10:37:35 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on July 21, 2022, 10:12:42 PM
Quote from: seicer on July 21, 2022, 09:31:38 PM
Someone posted those roads in... Alabama that have been graded with some bridges built having sat idle for a decade +.
That is nothing. Sections of US 50 in Illinois have grading done for a second carriageway with the second carriageway bridges over creeks built, and they have been there, unused, for decades. i believe these were built out when US 50 was still to be the routing of I-64. Been abandoned for just as bit now

If this is for the Lebanon - Caryle section of US 50, I really think those were for the supplemental freeway along US 50 (and HistoricAerials.com seems to back this).

EDIT
Quote from: seicer on July 20, 2022, 05:33:25 PM
It's not like the old bypass is that congested. I know that Tennessee takes its time on highway construction and planning because its reluctance to take on debt but... this is painfully slow.

It does have a couple revenue cameras (https://goo.gl/maps/WKUdByeSTeFZpbTMA) that discourage use of the corridor.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Alex on July 21, 2022, 11:37:12 PM
Quote from: seicer on July 21, 2022, 09:31:38 PM
Someone posted those roads in... Alabama that have been graded with some bridges built having sat idle for a decade +.

You are thinking of the realignment of U.S. 98 in Mobile County. Grading for the four lane highway near Wilmer from January 29, 2010:

(https://www.aaroads.com/al/mobile-co/cr-063-at-fut-us-098-1.jpg)
(https://www.aaroads.com/al/mobile-co/cr-063-at-fut-us-098-2.jpg)

This grading work was completed sometime in 2009. They are finally working on the actual road, but the completion keeps getting delayed due to funding issues.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on July 21, 2022, 11:39:22 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on July 21, 2022, 10:37:35 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on July 21, 2022, 10:12:42 PM
Quote from: seicer on July 21, 2022, 09:31:38 PM
Someone posted those roads in... Alabama that have been graded with some bridges built having sat idle for a decade +.
That is nothing. Sections of US 50 in Illinois have grading done for a second carriageway with the second carriageway bridges over creeks built, and they have been there, unused, for decades. i believe these were built out when US 50 was still to be the routing of I-64. Been abandoned for just as bit now

If this is for the Lebanon - Caryle section of US 50, I really think those were for the supplemental freeway along US 50 (and HistoricAerials.com seems to back this).

EDIT
Quote from: seicer on July 20, 2022, 05:33:25 PM
It's not like the old bypass is that congested. I know that Tennessee takes its time on highway construction and planning because its reluctance to take on debt but... this is painfully slow.

It does have a couple revenue cameras (https://goo.gl/maps/WKUdByeSTeFZpbTMA) that discourage use of the corridor.

This is correct. The supplemental 4 lane routing for US-50 between Xenia and Clay City was canned in 1974 as part of the oil shocks.

Funding was restored for the Lebanon-Carlye route, but "Big Jim" Thompson had the funding redirected and all work again stopped in their tracks. Today its a frankenstein road, with part 4 lane limited access, part Super 2 and part local access 2 lane. They left all the east bound bridges behind with no road for them., Today they are used by IDOT to store equipment. They are now well over 40 years old, were never maintained, and are starting to reflect the effects of nature. The Lebanon Bypass (Summerfield to IL-4)  is currently funded by IDOT and is in engineering phase, but will most likely be a Super 2 or less to save money.

The US-50 Coalition for Illinois is functionally dead and has been since 2015 when IDOT mysteriously removed the funding for the final phase of the EIS for the Olney-Lawrenceville segment.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on July 26, 2022, 09:23:29 AM
New images on Google Maps as the Google car drove by the US 51 I-69 interchange on the Northern side of Union City this month.

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.4636435,-88.9791005,3a,37.4y,252.36h,87.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdQ2869CfYA0vClnVvrjrzA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?authuser=1


Better view, just a bit North...

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.4645278,-88.9775209,3a,22.9y,276.23h,90.17t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1skhIu2smpeL5RIjyjz9ty7A!2e0!5s20220701T000000!7i16384!8i8192?authuser=1
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: rte66man on July 30, 2022, 03:10:11 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on July 26, 2022, 09:23:29 AM
New images on Google Maps as the Google car drove by the US 51 I-69 interchange on the Northern side of Union City this month.

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.4636435,-88.9791005,3a,37.4y,252.36h,87.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdQ2869CfYA0vClnVvrjrzA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?authuser=1

I was struck by the amount of embankment erosion on a relatively older roadbed.

Quote
Better view, just a bit North...

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.4645278,-88.9775209,3a,22.9y,276.23h,90.17t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1skhIu2smpeL5RIjyjz9ty7A!2e0!5s20220701T000000!7i16384!8i8192?authuser=1

Does this construction package include paving or is it grade, drain, and bridge only?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on July 31, 2022, 12:13:33 PM
IIRC the last section also includes paving the other two sections so the bypass will open.  The main travel lanes are redirected onto the bypass with drivers having to exit to remain on US 51.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on July 31, 2022, 09:37:12 PM
Any word on when TDOT will let construction contracts for the two sections that will bypass Troy?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on August 01, 2022, 06:32:25 AM
FYI, paving on the two sections of the Union City bypass that are already built began about a year ago...

https://www.jacksonsun.com/story/news/2021/07/16/paving-interstate-69-bypass-obion-county-tennessee/7937940002/
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on October 26, 2022, 12:36:21 PM
Google maps is now showing the ramps that carries US 45W/51 concurrency through the interchange with I-69 as being open (or at least marked on the map).
However, they are still showing the original southbound lanes too.

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.4639511,-88.9827306,17z
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: TNObion on November 04, 2022, 11:05:00 AM
Here are a few aerials I snapped in the past couple of weeks, the first is looking west toward Union City at the Claude Tucker/Section Line Rd Bridges, the second is looking North at the interchange, and the third is a general look of the interchange I took over some farmland. The southbound 51 ramp is open to traffic, however all northbound traffic is rerouted via TN 214 (Ken-Tenn RD) and as one could imagine, this created several issues along that road with accidents, etc....I included a link of the mayor speaking about this issue as well-

https://www.thunderboltradio.com/closure-of-highway-51-north-causing-traffic-issues-in-obion-county/

https://imgur.com/a/17a6H7v
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on November 04, 2022, 11:43:11 AM
So is northbound 51 closed all the way to South Fulton?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: TNObion on November 04, 2022, 11:58:39 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on November 04, 2022, 11:43:11 AM
So is northbound 51 closed all the way to South Fulton?

Yea from Union City to South Fulton....and it looks to be that way all winter. It's back to back traffic much of the time on 214 (Ken-Tenn Rd) with many of the vehicles being 18 wheelers. I'm currently using backroads to Union City/Fulton when possible.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: triplemultiplex on November 04, 2022, 03:24:56 PM
Wow that's a pretty annoying fail.  Surely they could have shunted traffic around in the footprint of the interchange to build the connections rather create such a fustercluck on a two-laner!
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: civilengineeringnerd on November 06, 2022, 10:37:50 PM
Quote from: TNObion on November 04, 2022, 11:58:39 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on November 04, 2022, 11:43:11 AM
So is northbound 51 closed all the way to South Fulton?

Yea from Union City to South Fulton....and it looks to be that way all winter. It's back to back traffic much of the time on 214 (Ken-Tenn Rd) with many of the vehicles being 18 wheelers. I'm currently using backroads to Union City/Fulton when possible.
literally read the entire thread, new here to the forum and the thread but that is the biggest muckups ive ever seen TDOT do, not since the muckup they did with jacksons widing of I-40, closing the interchange and forcing the traffic to funnel into Vann Drive and carriage house drive. traffic was standstill for weeks while they got the interchange aligned. also as a fellow west tennesseean i have to pose a question that i feel isn't asked at all to funding problems with I-69 and whatever I-169 would be:
why not have 1 tolled express lane and 1-2 general purpose lanes for the length of I-69 and add a tolled express lane to I-40 each way to help fund projects in west tennessee? i can imagine they can expedite it for I-40 between memphis and Exit 126 and have electronic toll passes. they already have had a tennessee tollway authority since 07, they just need to get the express lanes built. the tolls collected can go to projects throughout west tennessee so west tennessee doesn't rely on appropriated gas taxes that middle and east tennessee is taking up. they could easily rename it the West Tennessee Tollway Authority if it needs to be shown on paper.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: I-55 on November 07, 2022, 04:48:25 PM
Quote from: civilengineeringnerd on November 06, 2022, 10:37:50 PM
Quote from: TNObion on November 04, 2022, 11:58:39 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on November 04, 2022, 11:43:11 AM
So is northbound 51 closed all the way to South Fulton?

Yea from Union City to South Fulton....and it looks to be that way all winter. It's back to back traffic much of the time on 214 (Ken-Tenn Rd) with many of the vehicles being 18 wheelers. I'm currently using backroads to Union City/Fulton when possible.
literally read the entire thread, new here to the forum and the thread but that is the biggest muckups ive ever seen TDOT do, not since the muckup they did with jacksons widing of I-40, closing the interchange and forcing the traffic to funnel into Vann Drive and carriage house drive. traffic was standstill for weeks while they got the interchange aligned. also as a fellow west tennesseean i have to pose a question that i feel isn't asked at all to funding problems with I-69 and whatever I-169 would be:
why not have 1 tolled express lane and 1-2 general purpose lanes for the length of I-69 and add a tolled express lane to I-40 each way to help fund projects in west tennessee? i can imagine they can expedite it for I-40 between memphis and Exit 126 and have electronic toll passes. they already have had a tennessee tollway authority since 07, they just need to get the express lanes built. the tolls collected can go to projects throughout west tennessee so west tennessee doesn't rely on appropriated gas taxes that middle and east tennessee is taking up. they could easily rename it the West Tennessee Tollway Authority if it needs to be shown on paper.

As a motorist, what is the added benefit of tolled lanes that (under current law) would be the same speed as the main lanes that aren't heavily trafficked on I-69? I-40 makes more sense than I-69 though I think standard 6-laning is the best move there since the problem is mostly truck volume. Toll lanes would increase the construction cost on I-69 and add little to no benefit and I doubt they'd be able to make that money back.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on November 07, 2022, 08:09:54 PM
How much has the amount of truck traffic increased between Union City and Fulton since US 45W/US 51 was moved off Ken-Tenn Road and onto the four-lane freeway? The two-lane road was good enough at one time.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: civilengineeringnerd on November 09, 2022, 01:04:38 PM
Quote from: I-55 on November 07, 2022, 04:48:25 PM
Quote from: civilengineeringnerd on November 06, 2022, 10:37:50 PM
Quote from: TNObion on November 04, 2022, 11:58:39 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on November 04, 2022, 11:43:11 AM
So is northbound 51 closed all the way to South Fulton?

Yea from Union City to South Fulton....and it looks to be that way all winter. It's back to back traffic much of the time on 214 (Ken-Tenn Rd) with many of the vehicles being 18 wheelers. I'm currently using backroads to Union City/Fulton when possible.
literally read the entire thread, new here to the forum and the thread but that is the biggest muckups ive ever seen TDOT do, not since the muckup they did with jacksons widing of I-40, closing the interchange and forcing the traffic to funnel into Vann Drive and carriage house drive. traffic was standstill for weeks while they got the interchange aligned. also as a fellow west tennesseean i have to pose a question that i feel isn't asked at all to funding problems with I-69 and whatever I-169 would be:
why not have 1 tolled express lane and 1-2 general purpose lanes for the length of I-69 and add a tolled express lane to I-40 each way to help fund projects in west tennessee? i can imagine they can expedite it for I-40 between memphis and Exit 126 and have electronic toll passes. they already have had a tennessee tollway authority since 07, they just need to get the express lanes built. the tolls collected can go to projects throughout west tennessee so west tennessee doesn't rely on appropriated gas taxes that middle and east tennessee is taking up. they could easily rename it the West Tennessee Tollway Authority if it needs to be shown on paper.

As a motorist, what is the added benefit of tolled lanes that (under current law) would be the same speed as the main lanes that aren't heavily trafficked on I-69? I-40 makes more sense than I-69 though I think standard 6-laning is the best move there since the problem is mostly truck volume. Toll lanes would increase the construction cost on I-69 and add little to no benefit and I doubt they'd be able to make that money back.
there is electronic tolls tho. my point overall is there should be alternatives for funding most of west tennessees projects that should be considered, and having express toll lanes like in florida and georgia would keep 2 general purpose lanes open to traffic while a 3rd tolled lane would be the better solution.
if middle and east tennessee takes up the funding from gas taxes alone, then surely alternatives should be explored.
edit: forgot to add that after maintenence on the tolled lane is spent, you could take that extra money and throw it to projects like I-69.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: civilengineeringnerd on November 09, 2022, 01:10:03 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on November 07, 2022, 08:09:54 PM
How much has the amount of truck traffic increased between Union City and Fulton since US 45W/US 51 was moved off Ken-Tenn Road and onto the four-lane freeway? The two-lane road was good enough at one time.
i can imagine a great deal, considering that manufacturing exists in dyersburg and union city, on top of trucks coming from memphis and jackson to bypass already heavily truck trafficked I-40.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: triplemultiplex on November 09, 2022, 02:41:12 PM
Getting drivers in states with no tolls to start paying tolls is an uphill political battle.
For I-69, the only viable toll option is to toll the whole facility. There simply won't be the traffic for an "express lane" to be of any benefit.

Even on I-40 between Memphis and Nashville, there's not enough traffic for a toll lane to be worth it for anyone.  Which is why we only see those types of facilities on major commuter corridors in big cities.  And the thing is, the revenue they generate is usually only enough to pay for improvements/maintenance on the highway itself.  You're not looking at a huge new cash flow that can pay for roads elsewhere in the state.

Unless one tolls the whole thing. Then do what Oklahoma does: uses the revenue from I-44's toll routes (well, OKC to MO) to finance construction of other toll facilities. :P

I want to also note that in my experience, the HOV enforcement around Nashville is lacking to say the least. They'd probably make as much cash from HOV cheaters as actual legit tolls. :lol 
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: civilengineeringnerd on November 13, 2022, 11:37:34 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on November 09, 2022, 02:41:12 PM
Getting drivers in states with no tolls to start paying tolls is an uphill political battle.
For I-69, the only viable toll option is to toll the whole facility. There simply won't be the traffic for an "express lane" to be of any benefit.

Even on I-40 between Memphis and Nashville, there's not enough traffic for a toll lane to be worth it for anyone.  Which is why we only see those types of facilities on major commuter corridors in big cities.  And the thing is, the revenue they generate is usually only enough to pay for improvements/maintenance on the highway itself.  You're not looking at a huge new cash flow that can pay for roads elsewhere in the state.

Unless one tolls the whole thing. Then do what Oklahoma does: uses the revenue from I-44's toll routes (well, OKC to MO) to finance construction of other toll facilities. :P

I want to also note that in my experience, the HOV enforcement around Nashville is lacking to say the least. They'd probably make as much cash from HOV cheaters as actual legit tolls. :lol
then why not split the traffic and toll truck traffic or even thru traffic?
also I-44s tolls are not electronic, you have to drive up to a toll booth, which is not what i want for I-40, its too heavily trafficked.
you could do that for I-69 but it wouldn't bring much revenue.
personally any tolls in Tennessee needs to be electronic, unless you want 15 mile backups. and no TDOT isn't gonna pull a Oklahoma and start tolling ramps, rural counties won't have it, neither will places like Jackson where their ramps are already tightly packed together.
my points still stand, electronic tolled lanes separated by a concrete divider (similar to what Georgia did with their express lanes through Atlanta.) or electronic toll the entire roadway to at least past exit 126 (second to last exit before reaching the Tennessee River bridge) and use the tolls to help finance other construction projects like I-69.
my experience driving I-40, and actually sitting in a 10 mile backup caused by a single wreck a few times, is you might as well scrap having a toll booth on any stretch of I-40.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Avalanchez71 on November 14, 2022, 09:31:11 PM
Toll roads in Tennessee will not pass political scrutiny in the current environment.  Tennessee is a pay-as-you-go state as mentioned.  The electorate will not tolerate talks of tolling roads here.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on November 18, 2022, 10:41:38 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on November 14, 2022, 09:31:11 PM
Toll roads in Tennessee will not pass political scrutiny in the current environment.  Tennessee is a pay-as-you-go state as mentioned.  The electorate will not tolerate talks of tolling roads here.
Tolling bills were introduced in the Tennessee Legislature in the not-so-distant past, only to be squashed upon introduction. The political appetite for tolling in Tennessee is just not there.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: civilengineeringnerd on November 27, 2022, 09:14:49 PM
its actually there, but it smaller quantities.
the problem is most people in tennessee, especially in memphis, most likely don't even know what the f civil engineers and road enthusiasts mean when they say tennessee is a pay as you go state. thats something thats not taught in schools, and only people like on forums like these ever take a deeper dive.
and im sure after a detailed explanation, they would assume its a second tax on motorists which 99% of people living in tennessee are against having and would rather see the gas tax raised instead.
if tennessee still isn't getting enough funding for certain projects, like I-69, then something is wrong. while i don't know all the specifics, i would wager they vastly underestimated gas tax revenues when they raised the gas tax back in 2016. what they probably need to do to get projects finished quickly is raise gas taxes by 50 cents per gallon, and split into 3rds so that areas like jackson get the same treatment as nashville.
also gas tax raises need to happen at the local level as well, by at least 25 cents. if we want to continue being a pay as you go state, that is the harsh reality we have to do to get us off the federal teet. counties, cities and the state need to learn to work together and fund together.
its either that, or we split off the funding, tolling I-40 from memphis to the benton county line just after exit 126, and letting a private company manage the tolls and have them send 50% of the profits to a west tennessee foundation thats founded from the counties wanting a piece of the toll pie, that helps the private interests and gets projects done is better. we could have it electronically tolled from exit 12, to exit 126, or we can add a 3rd express tolled lane in the middle.
and with the profits, we can easily get major projects funded that need the extra cash inflow, like I-69 and a completion of I-269 around the western side of memphis.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: triplemultiplex on November 30, 2022, 12:46:46 PM
Quote from: civilengineeringnerd on November 13, 2022, 11:37:34 PM
also I-44s tolls are not electronic, you have to drive up to a toll booth, which is not what i want for I-40, its too heavily trafficked.
...
personally any tolls in Tennessee needs to be electronic, unless you want 15 mile backups. and no TDOT isn't gonna pull a Oklahoma and start tolling ramps, rural counties won't have it, neither will places like Jackson where their ramps are already tightly packed together.

Oklahoma is transitioning to all electronic tolling:
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=28470.0 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=28470.0)
They are actively closing the cash tollbooths right now.

Quote from: civilengineeringnerd on November 27, 2022, 09:14:49 PM
its either that, or we split off the funding, tolling I-40 from memphis to the benton county line just after exit 126, and letting a private company manage the tolls and have them send 50% of the profits to a west tennessee foundation thats founded from the counties wanting a piece of the toll pie, that helps the private interests and gets projects done is better. we could have it electronically tolled from exit 12, to exit 126, or we can add a 3rd express tolled lane in the middle.
and with the profits, we can easily get major projects funded that need the extra cash inflow, like I-69 and a completion of I-269 around the western side of memphis.

All your toll revenue would get swallowed by that idea for a third lane in each direction (which it could for sure use, but $$). None left for other projects.
Also thumbs down to private toll operators. Those have not been a good arrangement for drivers on The Skyway and the Indiana Toll Road, in my opinion.  Especially if the goal is to generate revenue for other highway projects.  Now you have some company skimming money off the operation; money that could be used for public infrastructure, not private profit.

What Tennessee needs to do is simply let themselves borrow money to build shit.  This pay-as-you-go model is actually costing the state's taxpayers MORE money than if the state simply floated some bonds to get things built faster and more cost-effectively.  Plus, you also get the tremendous economic benefit of HAVING the infrastructure while you're paying it off.  You come out way ahead by borrowing to build.

At this point, Tennessee has spent 12 years and probably a hundred million dollars building that arduous bypass of Union City.  And it's STILL a year from completion.  And even then, it still won't be done-done because they have to keep building south around Troy, which based on precedent, will probably take ANOTHER goddamn decade.  So they're spending all this money for such a long time and getting no benefit out of it at all.  If 15 years ago, they were able to bond this project, they could've had the funds to get the entire thing under construction and built in like 4 years, probably.  That's about what it would take in any other state these days.  Then for the last decade, they'd have the completed freeway open to the public benefit, generating new opportunities for their tax base and get things moving.  It's penny-wise and pound foolish the way they've gone about this project and many others.  I don't like it; it makes us look bad as a country.  Fourteen frickin' years to build six miles of rural freeway over level ground?  Pathetic!
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on November 30, 2022, 10:44:37 PM
All this makes me wonder how Tennessee was able to build I-26/US 23 south of Johnson City to the state line.

Back in the MTR days, John Lansford -- he who worked on the design of the wonderfully perfect North Carolina portion of the route from the state line down to Mars Hill -- used to throw off on Tennessee for its design of the route. I remember it being pointed out at the time that Tennessee had built that section entirely with state funds to bypass federal environmental constraints that would have come with accepting federal dollars for the project. That project took a lot of excavation and filling. It's amazing that Tennessee would afford to do that project, but can't do a shorter project on the other end of the state across more favorable terrain.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: LM117 on December 01, 2022, 07:41:02 AM
Is there a reason I-69 isn't using most of the existing US-51 bypass around Union City? From what I can tell on Google Maps, it looks like a lot of it could easily be upgraded to interstate standards.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: triplemultiplex on December 01, 2022, 11:14:41 AM
Quote from: LM117 on December 01, 2022, 07:41:02 AM
Is there a reason I-69 isn't using most of the existing US-51 bypass around Union City? From what I can tell on Google Maps, it looks like a lot of it could easily be upgraded to interstate standards.

Something I have repeated lamented in this thread.

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3841.msg2530914#msg2530914 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3841.msg2530914#msg2530914)
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: LM117 on December 01, 2022, 01:47:05 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on December 01, 2022, 11:14:41 AM
Quote from: LM117 on December 01, 2022, 07:41:02 AM
Is there a reason I-69 isn't using most of the existing US-51 bypass around Union City? From what I can tell on Google Maps, it looks like a lot of it could easily be upgraded to interstate standards.

Something I have repeated lamented in this thread.

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3841.msg2530914#msg2530914 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3841.msg2530914#msg2530914)

Your drawing is exactly what I was thinking of when I first looked at the map early this morning.

Did TDOT ever give a good reason why they chose not to upgrade the existing bypass, or at least the northern part of it? A brand new bypass here strikes me as a colossal waste of time and money.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on December 01, 2022, 07:10:52 PM
Kentucky announced today that the Purchase Parkway from the state line to Mayfield will be reconstructed to interstate standards to be signed as I-69. This includes rebuilding the toll booth cloverleaf at Wingo (KY 339) into a diamond interchange, and improvements to some Kentucky exits near Fulton. Wonder if this puts any pressure on Tennessee to rebuild the South Fulton interchange at US 45/45E/45W?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: mvak36 on December 02, 2022, 10:27:03 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 01, 2022, 07:10:52 PM
Kentucky announced today that the Purchase Parkway from the state line to Mayfield will be reconstructed to interstate standards to be signed as I-69. This includes rebuilding the toll booth cloverleaf at Wingo (KY 339) into a diamond interchange, and improvements to some Kentucky exits near Fulton. Wonder if this puts any pressure on Tennessee to rebuild the South Fulton interchange at US 45/45E/45W?

That's great news. I found this article so that I could see when the construction will be completed: https://www.wkms.org/business-economy/2022-12-01/beshear-announces-purchase-parkway-upgrade-i-69-extending-from-mayfield-to-fulton
QuoteAccording to a release from the governor's office, the upgrade is estimated to cost $33.9 million and is expected to be completed by late 2024. Jim Smith Contracting of Grand Rivers was awarded the contract.

Governor's Press Release (https://transportation.ky.gov/NewsRoom/2022-12-01%20Interstate%2069%20Upgrade%20RELEASE%20FINAL.pdf)
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: triplemultiplex on December 02, 2022, 11:49:55 AM
Quote from: LM117 on December 01, 2022, 01:47:05 PM
Did TDOT ever give a good reason why they chose not to upgrade the existing bypass, or at least the northern part of it? A brand new bypass here strikes me as a colossal waste of time and money.

I have not personally seen a satisfactory explanation.  Something about it being "simpler" to go way around?
Quite the boondoggle.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on December 02, 2022, 12:56:59 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on December 02, 2022, 11:49:55 AM
Quote from: LM117 on December 01, 2022, 01:47:05 PM
Did TDOT ever give a good reason why they chose not to upgrade the existing bypass, or at least the northern part of it? A brand new bypass here strikes me as a colossal waste of time and money.

I have not personally seen a satisfactory explanation.  Something about it being "simpler" to go way around?
Quite the boondoggle.

ROW costs, perhaps?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: froggie on December 02, 2022, 02:17:13 PM
^ If "ROW costs" was their excuse, they didn't make an attempt in good faith.  An urban cross section and tight-diamond interchanges would largely fit inside the existing bypass ROW.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on December 02, 2022, 04:18:21 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 01, 2022, 07:10:52 PM
Kentucky announced today that the Purchase Parkway from the state line to Mayfield will be reconstructed to interstate standards to be signed as I-69. This includes rebuilding the toll booth cloverleaf at Wingo (KY 339) into a diamond interchange, and improvements to some Kentucky exits near Fulton. Wonder if this puts any pressure on Tennessee to rebuild the South Fulton interchange at US 45/45E/45W?
That and construction moving forward on the Ohio River Bridge between Henderson and Evansville, and the final section from Martinsville to Indianapolis nearing completion, will all create a forcing function for Tennessee to get their portion completed to at least Dyersburg.  Tennessee can only kick the can down the road so far before the additional traffic (as the route further north is completed) starts showing up in West Tennessee. Furthermore, Tennessee will eventually have to start focusing on the Dyersburg-Memphis segment, as Missouri and Arkansas will only tolerate so much additional traffic from points north crossing the I-155 bridge and then being dumped onto I-55 and I-40.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on December 02, 2022, 09:53:24 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on December 01, 2022, 11:14:41 AM
Quote from: LM117 on December 01, 2022, 07:41:02 AM
Is there a reason I-69 isn't using most of the existing US-51 bypass around Union City? From what I can tell on Google Maps, it looks like a lot of it could easily be upgraded to interstate standards.

Something I have repeated lamented in this thread.

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3841.msg2530914#msg2530914 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3841.msg2530914#msg2530914)

Somewhere in the back of this thread I posted some language from the original EIS that commented on the ROW decision and why.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: civilengineeringnerd on December 03, 2022, 11:10:07 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 01, 2022, 07:10:52 PM
Kentucky announced today that the Purchase Parkway from the state line to Mayfield will be reconstructed to interstate standards to be signed as I-69. This includes rebuilding the toll booth cloverleaf at Wingo (KY 339) into a diamond interchange, and improvements to some Kentucky exits near Fulton. Wonder if this puts any pressure on Tennessee to rebuild the South Fulton interchange at US 45/45E/45W?
personally i hope so. that interchange does need a complete overhaul.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: civilengineeringnerd on December 03, 2022, 11:14:16 AM
Quote from: froggie on December 02, 2022, 02:17:13 PM
^ If "ROW costs" was their excuse, they didn't make an attempt in good faith.  An urban cross section and tight-diamond interchanges would largely fit inside the existing bypass ROW.
another would be a texas style freeway. frontage roads, and overpasses with ramps connecting the frontage roads. but tennessee acts like that would be bad.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: civilengineeringnerd on December 03, 2022, 11:24:07 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on November 30, 2022, 12:46:46 PM
Quote from: civilengineeringnerd on November 13, 2022, 11:37:34 PM
also I-44s tolls are not electronic, you have to drive up to a toll booth, which is not what i want for I-40, its too heavily trafficked.
...
personally any tolls in Tennessee needs to be electronic, unless you want 15 mile backups. and no TDOT isn't gonna pull a Oklahoma and start tolling ramps, rural counties won't have it, neither will places like Jackson where their ramps are already tightly packed together.

Oklahoma is transitioning to all electronic tolling:
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=28470.0 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=28470.0)
They are actively closing the cash tollbooths right now.

Quote from: civilengineeringnerd on November 27, 2022, 09:14:49 PM
its either that, or we split off the funding, tolling I-40 from memphis to the benton county line just after exit 126, and letting a private company manage the tolls and have them send 50% of the profits to a west tennessee foundation thats founded from the counties wanting a piece of the toll pie, that helps the private interests and gets projects done is better. we could have it electronically tolled from exit 12, to exit 126, or we can add a 3rd express tolled lane in the middle.
and with the profits, we can easily get major projects funded that need the extra cash inflow, like I-69 and a completion of I-269 around the western side of memphis.

All your toll revenue would get swallowed by that idea for a third lane in each direction (which it could for sure use, but $$). None left for other projects.
Also thumbs down to private toll operators. Those have not been a good arrangement for drivers on The Skyway and the Indiana Toll Road, in my opinion.  Especially if the goal is to generate revenue for other highway projects.  Now you have some company skimming money off the operation; money that could be used for public infrastructure, not private profit.

What Tennessee needs to do is simply let themselves borrow money to build shit.  This pay-as-you-go model is actually costing the state's taxpayers MORE money than if the state simply floated some bonds to get things built faster and more cost-effectively.  Plus, you also get the tremendous economic benefit of HAVING the infrastructure while you're paying it off.  You come out way ahead by borrowing to build.

At this point, Tennessee has spent 12 years and probably a hundred million dollars building that arduous bypass of Union City.  And it's STILL a year from completion.  And even then, it still won't be done-done because they have to keep building south around Troy, which based on precedent, will probably take ANOTHER goddamn decade.  So they're spending all this money for such a long time and getting no benefit out of it at all.  If 15 years ago, they were able to bond this project, they could've had the funds to get the entire thing under construction and built in like 4 years, probably.  That's about what it would take in any other state these days.  Then for the last decade, they'd have the completed freeway open to the public benefit, generating new opportunities for their tax base and get things moving.  It's penny-wise and pound foolish the way they've gone about this project and many others.  I don't like it; it makes us look bad as a country.  Fourteen frickin' years to build six miles of rural freeway over level ground?  Pathetic!

"All your toll revenue would get swallowed by that idea for a third lane in each direction (which it could for sure use, but $$). None left for other projects.
Also thumbs down to private toll operators. Those have not been a good arrangement for drivers on The Skyway and the Indiana Toll Road, in my opinion.  Especially if the goal is to generate revenue for other highway projects.  Now you have some company skimming money off the operation; money that could be used for public infrastructure, not private profit."
im pro-private roads for one reason: they manage the road better at less cost. the indiana toll road, while i don't know of its condition now, the governor that sold it said they were losing money on that toll road before they sold it off. if a red state like indiana years ago was losing money on a toll road, i see no reason for tennessee to not lease major routes in tennessee to private companies
"What Tennessee needs to do is simply let themselves borrow money to build shit.  This pay-as-you-go model is actually costing the state's taxpayers MORE money than if the state simply floated some bonds to get things built faster and more cost-effectively.  Plus, you also get the tremendous economic benefit of HAVING the infrastructure while you're paying it off.  You come out way ahead by borrowing to build."
tennnessee is trying to avoid future fiscal burdens on its infrastructure. california borrows money for their roads, and they are so far behind on their infrastructure its borderline 3rd world. i can understand why tennessee wants to do the pay as you go model, they see it as better for the taxpayers because its not putting a burden on them in the future.
"At this point, Tennessee has spent 12 years and probably a hundred million dollars building that arduous bypass of Union City.  And it's STILL a year from completion.  And even then, it still won't be done-done because they have to keep building south around Troy, which based on precedent, will probably take ANOTHER goddamn decade.  So they're spending all this money for such a long time and getting no benefit out of it at all.  If 15 years ago, they were able to bond this project, they could've had the funds to get the entire thing under construction and built in like 4 years, probably.  That's about what it would take in any other state these days.  Then for the last decade, they'd have the completed freeway open to the public benefit, generating new opportunities for their tax base and get things moving.  It's penny-wise and pound foolish the way they've gone about this project and many others.  I don't like it; it makes us look bad as a country.  Fourteen frickin' years to build six miles of rural freeway over level ground?  Pathetic!"
what makes us look bad as a country is how we built our roads, grid, bridges, dams, leeves, etc and never thought of the future maintence, replacements, expansions and modernization projects that would be needed decades down the road, and never bothered to make sure the funding got adjusted for both inflation and demand.
shortsightedness is whats making us look bad today, not tennessees pay as you go way of updating infrastructure. tennessee just needs to raise the gas tax by 30 cents, instead of the 8 cents with private benefits in 2016. let the companies leave the state, we got roads to build, if they don't like that, then fine, they can go to another state.
also part of that 8 cent raise had to go to bike lanes and other infrastructure that should be put off till we get ours updated completely, they're luxury infrastructure projects that should be forced to wait till we got the roads updated, and maintained well.
if not 30 cents, then lease out the interstates to private companies, so other projects are opened up.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: civilengineeringnerd on December 03, 2022, 11:44:35 AM
the entire situation with I-69 was held up because tennessee wanted the feds to pay for it when they could've just opted out of it to begin with. and that bypass around union city, i can agree that was a dumb move. they should've used the existing bypass and upgraded that, and used a texas style freeway design to do it.
instead tennessee lawmakers wanted to be petty and force the feds to pay for it, and when they emptied their pockets and nothing came out, they should've had kentucky, missouri and arkansas to pick up the route.
12+ years and the very first leg of I-69 is still not completed. i'd be more surprised if the feds will give tennessee money for infrastructure. if I-69 was a private road, it would've been built in a couple of years, minimum, from kentucky to mississippi.  :rolleyes:
they could've raised the gas taxes by 30 cents years ago, told the public "hey, feds won't pay for it, and we need more tax revenue for many projects in the state." pretty sure 90% of tennesseeans would've been on board back then, with the 10% not caring or being total karens. I-24 in middle tennessee would probably be widened instead of made smarter, I-69 would be completed by now, and I-40 from memphis to nashville probably would've been widened to 3 lanes with safety improvements done.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on December 03, 2022, 08:28:07 PM
Quote from: abqtraveler on December 02, 2022, 04:18:21 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 01, 2022, 07:10:52 PM
Kentucky announced today that the Purchase Parkway from the state line to Mayfield will be reconstructed to interstate standards to be signed as I-69. This includes rebuilding the toll booth cloverleaf at Wingo (KY 339) into a diamond interchange, and improvements to some Kentucky exits near Fulton. Wonder if this puts any pressure on Tennessee to rebuild the South Fulton interchange at US 45/45E/45W?
That and construction moving forward on the Ohio River Bridge between Henderson and Evansville, and the final section from Martinsville to Indianapolis nearing completion, will all create a forcing function for Tennessee to get their portion completed to at least Dyersburg.  Tennessee can only kick the can down the road so far before the additional traffic (as the route further north is completed) starts showing up in West Tennessee. Furthermore, Tennessee will eventually have to start focusing on the Dyersburg-Memphis segment, as Missouri and Arkansas will only tolerate so much additional traffic from points north crossing the I-155 bridge and then being dumped onto I-55 and I-40.

Curious as to what they can do other than 'tolerate" it. They certainly can't force Tennessee to build anything entirely within its own boundaries.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sprjus4 on December 03, 2022, 09:28:00 PM
^ Not all traffic will follow I-155 to I-55 either... US-51 is shorter and more direct and may end up attracting a lot of the traffic too... overloading it further, and warranting upgrades by Tennessee to their own road... which would ideally involve a new freeway.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on December 05, 2022, 09:29:01 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 03, 2022, 08:28:07 PM
Quote from: abqtraveler on December 02, 2022, 04:18:21 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 01, 2022, 07:10:52 PM
Kentucky announced today that the Purchase Parkway from the state line to Mayfield will be reconstructed to interstate standards to be signed as I-69. This includes rebuilding the toll booth cloverleaf at Wingo (KY 339) into a diamond interchange, and improvements to some Kentucky exits near Fulton. Wonder if this puts any pressure on Tennessee to rebuild the South Fulton interchange at US 45/45E/45W?
That and construction moving forward on the Ohio River Bridge between Henderson and Evansville, and the final section from Martinsville to Indianapolis nearing completion, will all create a forcing function for Tennessee to get their portion completed to at least Dyersburg.  Tennessee can only kick the can down the road so far before the additional traffic (as the route further north is completed) starts showing up in West Tennessee. Furthermore, Tennessee will eventually have to start focusing on the Dyersburg-Memphis segment, as Missouri and Arkansas will only tolerate so much additional traffic from points north crossing the I-155 bridge and then being dumped onto I-55 and I-40.

Curious as to what they can do other than 'tolerate" it. They certainly can't force Tennessee to build anything entirely within its own boundaries.
Has there ever been a lawsuit where one or more states have sued another state, in attempt to force that state to prioritize a highway or other infrastructure project, on the basis that inaction on such project by the defendant state is creating a detrimental effect of some kind on the plaintiff states?

I think it would be a novel approach to force Tennessee to prioritize completing I-69...should Missouri and Arkansas somehow convince a federal judge that dumping I-69 traffic onto I-55 and I-40 would have detrimental economic impacts to both states (I-40 between Memphis and Little Rock is already clogged with truck traffic), and thus order Tennessee to complete I-69.

It would be a very long shot, but I'm curious if this has been attempted in the past.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sprjus4 on December 05, 2022, 10:18:52 AM
^ How exactly would Tennessee not completing I-69 affect I-40 in Arkansas?

I-69 and I-40 would cross in Tennessee, prior to entering Arkansas. I-69 north of there has no impact on I-40 in Arkansas.

Not to mention, wouldn't all the traffic that would be diverted to I-69 already mostly using I-55 south of I-57 in Missouri already?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: rte66man on December 05, 2022, 10:54:52 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on December 03, 2022, 09:28:00 PM
^ Not all traffic will follow I-155 to I-55 either... US-51 is shorter and more direct and may end up attracting a lot of the traffic too... overloading it further, and warranting upgrades by Tennessee to their own road... which would ideally involve a new freeway.

Uhh, have you ever drive 51 from Dyersburg to Millington? Not too bad until you get to Ripley. From there south through the center of Covington, through Atoka, Brighton, and Mumford to 269 is nothing but stop and go traffic with low speed limits and way too many traffic signals. If given a viable alternative such as 155 to 55, most trucks would take it over 51.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: I-55 on December 10, 2022, 01:40:22 AM
Quote from: rte66man on December 05, 2022, 10:54:52 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on December 03, 2022, 09:28:00 PM
^ Not all traffic will follow I-155 to I-55 either... US-51 is shorter and more direct and may end up attracting a lot of the traffic too... overloading it further, and warranting upgrades by Tennessee to their own road... which would ideally involve a new freeway.

Uhh, have you ever drive 51 from Dyersburg to Millington? Not too bad until you get to Ripley. From there south through the center of Covington, through Atoka, Brighton, and Mumford to 269 is nothing but stop and go traffic with low speed limits and way too many traffic signals. If given a viable alternative such as 155 to 55, most trucks would take it over 51.

Last time I passed through Union City I was traveling to Collierville and we were routed US 412 -> TN 54 -> TN 76 -> I 40. So depending on which part of Memphis (or surrounding area) you're aiming for there's 3 (maybe more) plausible routes, two of which are in TN.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Avalanchez71 on December 10, 2022, 06:39:25 PM
So the media is trying to play snippets of tolling lanes here in Tennessee.  They are trying to say that bills may be introduced to be able to toll certain lanes.  The comments section is full of folks saying, no thanks.

They are also proposing to triple the registration fee for EVs to compensate for the decrease in the gas tax and what one would pay if they were paying the gas tax.  $100 to $300.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sprjus4 on December 10, 2022, 07:03:25 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on December 10, 2022, 06:39:25 PM
So the media is trying to play snippets of tolling lanes here in Tennessee.  They are trying to say that bills may be introduced to be able to toll certain lanes.  The comments section is full of folks saying, no thanks.
They're doing this in Hampton Roads. They planned to expand the existing and planned network to I-664, and they did a study on it for expansion. Options included adding 1 or 2 general purpose lanes each way, or 1 or 2 HO/T lanes each way. The public opinion was vast majority for the general purpose expansion, with a lot of opposition toward HO/T lanes.

The preferred alternative was HO/T lanes, of course, because they made one of the goals of the project to "add managed lanes."  They didn't even study the impacts of having general purpose vs. HO/T. They simply dismissed GP from further study.

For context, I-664 is a rural design interstate that is 4 lanes (2 each way) with a large median, and carries 90,000 AADT. It flows mostly well with some moderate congestion, and backups near the MMMBT. A simple expansion to 6 general purpose lanes, or even 6 GP + 2 HO/T would make a significant positive improvement. But instead, we're gonna be stuck with 4 general purpose lanes and 2 HO/T lanes, much similar to what they're building on I-64, and congestion will remain.

And 8 general purpose lanes would work adequately, other highways in the region with that build carry 120,000 - 150,000 AADT and flow perfectly during peak hours.

HO/T lanes aren't terrible, but they're being overused in some instances.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: rte66man on December 13, 2022, 08:33:35 AM
Quote from: I-55 on December 10, 2022, 01:40:22 AM
Quote from: rte66man on December 05, 2022, 10:54:52 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on December 03, 2022, 09:28:00 PM
^ Not all traffic will follow I-155 to I-55 either… US-51 is shorter and more direct and may end up attracting a lot of the traffic too… overloading it further, and warranting upgrades by Tennessee to their own road… which would ideally involve a new freeway.

Uhh, have you ever drive 51 from Dyersburg to Millington? Not too bad until you get to Ripley. From there south through the center of Covington, through Atoka, Brighton, and Mumford to 269 is nothing but stop and go traffic with low speed limits and way too many traffic signals. If given a viable alternative such as 155 to 55, most trucks would take it over 51.

Last time I passed through Union City I was traveling to Collierville and we were routed US 412 -> TN 54 -> TN 76 -> I 40. So depending on which part of Memphis (or surrounding area) you're aiming for there's 3 (maybe more) plausible routes, two of which are in TN.

I would have never considered that route until now. TN54 doesn't look bad and doesn't go thru any towns. You can use the Brownsville bypass. I will definitely consider that route in the future.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Rick Powell on December 13, 2022, 11:10:03 AM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on December 10, 2022, 06:39:25 PM
They are also proposing to triple the registration fee for EVs to compensate for the decrease in the gas tax and what one would pay if they were paying the gas tax.  $100 to $300.
If the average gas vehicle gets 25 mpg and is driven 15k miles a year, Tennessee's state and federal tax of 44c/gal per gas vehicle works out to about $260 a year. That's what they are replacing.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Avalanchez71 on December 13, 2022, 11:43:44 PM
Quote from: Rick Powell on December 13, 2022, 11:10:03 AM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on December 10, 2022, 06:39:25 PM
They are also proposing to triple the registration fee for EVs to compensate for the decrease in the gas tax and what one would pay if they were paying the gas tax.  $100 to $300.
If the average gas vehicle gets 25 mpg and is driven 15k miles a year, Tennessee's state and federal tax of 44c/gal per gas vehicle works out to about $260 a year. That's what they are replacing.

Then to triple it is overdoing it.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Rick Powell on December 14, 2022, 11:12:55 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on December 13, 2022, 11:43:44 PM
Quote from: Rick Powell on December 13, 2022, 11:10:03 AM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on December 10, 2022, 06:39:25 PM
They are also proposing to triple the registration fee for EVs to compensate for the decrease in the gas tax and what one would pay if they were paying the gas tax.  $100 to $300.
If the average gas vehicle gets 25 mpg and is driven 15k miles a year, Tennessee's state and federal tax of 44c/gal per gas vehicle works out to about $260 a year. That's what they are replacing.

Then to triple it is overdoing it.
What is the registration fee for a gas car? If it's $100, then the EV owner may be getting off light with only $200 in extra registration fees vs. $260 in gasoline taxes for the average gas car owner. Of course, this would give a slight differential incentive to the EV vehicle which may be a societal goal advanced by tax policy...but really not much in the grand scheme of things.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Avalanchez71 on December 14, 2022, 11:58:02 PM
Quote from: Rick Powell on December 14, 2022, 11:12:55 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on December 13, 2022, 11:43:44 PM
Quote from: Rick Powell on December 13, 2022, 11:10:03 AM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on December 10, 2022, 06:39:25 PM
They are also proposing to triple the registration fee for EVs to compensate for the decrease in the gas tax and what one would pay if they were paying the gas tax.  $100 to $300.
If the average gas vehicle gets 25 mpg and is driven 15k miles a year, Tennessee's state and federal tax of 44c/gal per gas vehicle works out to about $260 a year. That's what they are replacing.

The problem is that the gas car has a $29 registration fee.  Individual counties may charge up to an additional wheel tax of $55.

Then to triple it is overdoing it.
What is the registration fee for a gas car? If it's $100, then the EV owner may be getting off light with only $200 in extra registration fees vs. $260 in gasoline taxes for the average gas car owner. Of course, this would give a slight differential incentive to the EV vehicle which may be a societal goal advanced by tax policy...but really not much in the grand scheme of things.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on December 20, 2022, 11:50:32 AM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on December 14, 2022, 11:58:02 PM
Quote from: Rick Powell on December 14, 2022, 11:12:55 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on December 13, 2022, 11:43:44 PM
Quote from: Rick Powell on December 13, 2022, 11:10:03 AM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on December 10, 2022, 06:39:25 PM
They are also proposing to triple the registration fee for EVs to compensate for the decrease in the gas tax and what one would pay if they were paying the gas tax.  $100 to $300.
If the average gas vehicle gets 25 mpg and is driven 15k miles a year, Tennessee's state and federal tax of 44c/gal per gas vehicle works out to about $260 a year. That's what they are replacing.

The problem is that the gas car has a $29 registration fee.  Individual counties may charge up to an additional wheel tax of $55.

Then to triple it is overdoing it.
What is the registration fee for a gas car? If it's $100, then the EV owner may be getting off light with only $200 in extra registration fees vs. $260 in gasoline taxes for the average gas car owner. Of course, this would give a slight differential incentive to the EV vehicle which may be a societal goal advanced by tax policy...but really not much in the grand scheme of things.
There should be additional registration fees for EVs, as in the vast majority of states, highway construction and upkeep is funded by fuel taxes. Naturally, EV owners don't pay fuel taxes as EVs don't consume petroleum-based fuels, yet EVs cause as much wear-and-tear on our roads as vehicles with internal combustion engines (and perhaps more, given that EVs are often heavier than an equivalent vehicle with an internal combustion engine, thanks to the weight of the batteries).

In short, EV owners need to pay their fair share to maintain our highways either through higher registration fees that represent an equitable offset in the amount of fuel they would otherwise use, or through a mileage tax that reflects their road usage over a given year.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: civilengineeringnerd on December 22, 2022, 08:31:28 AM
Quote from: abqtraveler on December 20, 2022, 11:50:32 AM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on December 14, 2022, 11:58:02 PM
Quote from: Rick Powell on December 14, 2022, 11:12:55 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on December 13, 2022, 11:43:44 PM
Quote from: Rick Powell on December 13, 2022, 11:10:03 AM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on December 10, 2022, 06:39:25 PM
They are also proposing to triple the registration fee for EVs to compensate for the decrease in the gas tax and what one would pay if they were paying the gas tax.  $100 to $300.
If the average gas vehicle gets 25 mpg and is driven 15k miles a year, Tennessee's state and federal tax of 44c/gal per gas vehicle works out to about $260 a year. That's what they are replacing.

The problem is that the gas car has a $29 registration fee.  Individual counties may charge up to an additional wheel tax of $55.

Then to triple it is overdoing it.
What is the registration fee for a gas car? If it's $100, then the EV owner may be getting off light with only $200 in extra registration fees vs. $260 in gasoline taxes for the average gas car owner. Of course, this would give a slight differential incentive to the EV vehicle which may be a societal goal advanced by tax policy...but really not much in the grand scheme of things.
There should be additional registration fees for EVs, as in the vast majority of states, highway construction and upkeep is funded by fuel taxes. Naturally, EV owners don't pay fuel taxes as EVs don't consume petroleum-based fuels, yet EVs cause as much wear-and-tear on our roads as vehicles with internal combustion engines (and perhaps more, given that EVs are often heavier than an equivalent vehicle with an internal combustion engine, thanks to the weight of the batteries).

In short, EV owners need to pay their fair share to maintain our highways either through higher registration fees that represent an equitable offset in the amount of fuel they would otherwise use, or through a mileage tax that reflects their road usage over a given year.

my opinion on EVs is it should be taxed per KWh. going to a tesla supercharger to top off the battery? pay the same rate as gas vehicles.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: civilengineeringnerd on December 22, 2022, 08:36:56 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFejy3epW1c
interstate 411s channel has views of I-69 progress, they recently updated their video on US 51.
I-69 construction starts coming into view at around 4:30
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: rte66man on December 25, 2022, 09:14:26 AM
Did I read the speed limit correctly as 55 mph? That is what it said just past the Ken-Tenn Highway exit.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Rick Powell on December 25, 2022, 12:26:58 PM
Quote from: rte66man on December 25, 2022, 09:14:26 AM
Did I read the speed limit correctly as 55 mph? That is what it said just past the Ken-Tenn Highway exit.
Yep, did a spot check on Street View ca. 2022 and it looks like the whole stretch of US 51/45W is currently marked for 55 mph between Fulton and Union City, even though it is essentially to interstate standards. 
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: roadman65 on December 25, 2022, 12:29:16 PM
When in Creation is that Union City Bypass gonna be done? In 2020 they started it and still not open 2 years later.😫
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Great Lakes Roads on December 25, 2022, 03:04:56 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on December 25, 2022, 12:29:16 PM
When in Creation is that Union City Bypass gonna be done? In 2020 they started it and still not open 2 years later.😫

Hopefully sometime in 2023 or 2024...
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sprjus4 on December 25, 2022, 03:05:51 PM
Quote from: Rick Powell on December 25, 2022, 12:26:58 PM
Quote from: rte66man on December 25, 2022, 09:14:26 AM
Did I read the speed limit correctly as 55 mph? That is what it said just past the Ken-Tenn Highway exit.
Yep, did a spot check on Street View ca. 2022 and it looks like the whole stretch of US 51/45W is currently marked for 55 mph between Fulton and Union City, even though it is essentially to interstate standards.
According to previous Street View from 2019 and before, the entire stretch was signed at 70 mph. Why did they lower the entire segment to 55 mph just because of a spot work zone? That just seems like another typical example of an arbitrarily low work zone speed limit. I've encountered this a number of times in various places, where they will lower the speed limit from 70 mph to 55 mph or 60 mph with virtually zero work occurring. Speed trap much?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Rick Powell on December 25, 2022, 05:24:39 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on December 25, 2022, 03:05:51 PM
According to previous Street View from 2019 and before, the entire stretch was signed at 70 mph. Why did they lower the entire segment to 55 mph just because of a spot work zone? That just seems like another typical example of an arbitrarily low work zone speed limit. I've encountered this a number of times in various places, where they will lower the speed limit from 70 mph to 55 mph or 60 mph with virtually zero work occurring. Speed trap much?
Well, work speed zones are one thing, but this is several miles from the construction area. I have no idea why it was lowered 15 mph thru the whole stretch. This shot from 2012 just southwest of Fulton, past TN 214, posted at 70 mph
https://tinyurl.com/2zjy796b
And the same sign location in 2022, now posted at 55 mph
https://tinyurl.com/z5nnwc3p
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: civilengineeringnerd on December 26, 2022, 11:42:55 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on December 25, 2022, 03:05:51 PM
Quote from: Rick Powell on December 25, 2022, 12:26:58 PM
Quote from: rte66man on December 25, 2022, 09:14:26 AM
Did I read the speed limit correctly as 55 mph? That is what it said just past the Ken-Tenn Highway exit.
Yep, did a spot check on Street View ca. 2022 and it looks like the whole stretch of US 51/45W is currently marked for 55 mph between Fulton and Union City, even though it is essentially to interstate standards.
According to previous Street View from 2019 and before, the entire stretch was signed at 70 mph. Why did they lower the entire segment to 55 mph just because of a spot work zone? That just seems like another typical example of an arbitrarily low work zone speed limit. I've encountered this a number of times in various places, where they will lower the speed limit from 70 mph to 55 mph or 60 mph with virtually zero work occurring. Speed trap much?
when they were widing the roadway in jackson, tn on I-40 from 2 lanes each way to at the widest 4 lanes each way, (still are btw) they had the speed limit lowered to 55 mph but i saw 0 traffic cams or state troopers on that route.
so its questionable that its a speed trap, since tennessee seems to not care about enforcing work zone speed limits much at all.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: civilengineeringnerd on December 26, 2022, 11:45:52 AM
Quote from: Rick Powell on December 25, 2022, 05:24:39 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on December 25, 2022, 03:05:51 PM
According to previous Street View from 2019 and before, the entire stretch was signed at 70 mph. Why did they lower the entire segment to 55 mph just because of a spot work zone? That just seems like another typical example of an arbitrarily low work zone speed limit. I've encountered this a number of times in various places, where they will lower the speed limit from 70 mph to 55 mph or 60 mph with virtually zero work occurring. Speed trap much?
Well, work speed zones are one thing, but this is several miles from the construction area. I have no idea why it was lowered 15 mph thru the whole stretch. This shot from 2012 just southwest of Fulton, past TN 214, posted at 70 mph
https://tinyurl.com/2zjy796b
And the same sign location in 2022, now posted at 55 mph
https://tinyurl.com/z5nnwc3p
it wouldn't surprise me if a bunch of karen soceer moms got tired of seeing people "fly" down the roadway so they had it lowered to 55 for whatever reason. the road is literally built to interstate standards but the county has to appease the soceer moms i guess.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sprjus4 on December 26, 2022, 12:09:28 PM
Quote from: civilengineeringnerd on December 26, 2022, 11:45:52 AM
Quote from: Rick Powell on December 25, 2022, 05:24:39 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on December 25, 2022, 03:05:51 PM
According to previous Street View from 2019 and before, the entire stretch was signed at 70 mph. Why did they lower the entire segment to 55 mph just because of a spot work zone? That just seems like another typical example of an arbitrarily low work zone speed limit. I've encountered this a number of times in various places, where they will lower the speed limit from 70 mph to 55 mph or 60 mph with virtually zero work occurring. Speed trap much?
Well, work speed zones are one thing, but this is several miles from the construction area. I have no idea why it was lowered 15 mph thru the whole stretch. This shot from 2012 just southwest of Fulton, past TN 214, posted at 70 mph
https://tinyurl.com/2zjy796b
And the same sign location in 2022, now posted at 55 mph
https://tinyurl.com/z5nnwc3p
it wouldn't surprise me if a bunch of karen soceer moms got tired of seeing people "fly" down the roadway so they had it lowered to 55 for whatever reason. the road is literally built to interstate standards but the county has to appease the soceer moms i guess.
I doubt that was the reason, plus wouldn't TDOT have control over the speed limits and roadway, not the county?

It was likely because of said "work zone" , but improperly done. I imagine it will get raised back to 70 mph once the bypass is finished.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: triplemultiplex on December 27, 2022, 11:56:31 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on December 25, 2022, 12:29:16 PM
When in Creation is that Union City Bypass gonna be done? In 2020 they started it and still not open 2 years later.😫

Started in 2020?  Oh you are funny!  That sumbitch has been under construction since 2011.  It's an order magnitude worse than you thought.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on December 27, 2022, 01:37:08 PM
Once the Union City Bypass is completed, I think that all of the exits on US 51 between Interstate 155/US 412 and TN 183, the new bypass, and US 45W/US 51 to the southern terminus of the Purchase Parkway should all get exit numbers, based on the mileage of future Interstate 69 from the Mississippi/Tennessee border.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: civilengineeringnerd on December 27, 2022, 04:34:03 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on December 27, 2022, 01:37:08 PM
Once the Union City Bypass is completed, I think that all of the exits on US 51 between Interstate 155/US 412 and TN 183, the new bypass, and US 45W/US 51 to the southern terminus of the Purchase Parkway should all get exit numbers, based on the mileage of future Interstate 69 from the Mississippi/Tennessee border.
if only it was that easy. they still gotta redo the interchange at the kentucky/tennessee border and do the troy bypass.
hell wouldn't surprise me if US 51 followed I-69 around troy, similar to what they do with US 412 and I-40 in jackson, tn and they had a "business US 51" for troy.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: civilengineeringnerd on December 27, 2022, 04:35:25 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on December 26, 2022, 12:09:28 PM
Quote from: civilengineeringnerd on December 26, 2022, 11:45:52 AM
Quote from: Rick Powell on December 25, 2022, 05:24:39 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on December 25, 2022, 03:05:51 PM
According to previous Street View from 2019 and before, the entire stretch was signed at 70 mph. Why did they lower the entire segment to 55 mph just because of a spot work zone? That just seems like another typical example of an arbitrarily low work zone speed limit. I've encountered this a number of times in various places, where they will lower the speed limit from 70 mph to 55 mph or 60 mph with virtually zero work occurring. Speed trap much?
Well, work speed zones are one thing, but this is several miles from the construction area. I have no idea why it was lowered 15 mph thru the whole stretch. This shot from 2012 just southwest of Fulton, past TN 214, posted at 70 mph
https://tinyurl.com/2zjy796b
And the same sign location in 2022, now posted at 55 mph
https://tinyurl.com/z5nnwc3p
it wouldn't surprise me if a bunch of karen soceer moms got tired of seeing people "fly" down the roadway so they had it lowered to 55 for whatever reason. the road is literally built to interstate standards but the county has to appease the soceer moms i guess.
I doubt that was the reason, plus wouldn't TDOT have control over the speed limits and roadway, not the county?

It was likely because of said "work zone" , but improperly done. I imagine it will get raised back to 70 mph once the bypass is finished.
i mean it could be, but it could also be due to regulation. feds probably wanted it lowered and they lowered to 55 instead of 70 till the union city bypass was done.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on December 27, 2022, 06:25:55 PM
Quote from: civilengineeringnerd on December 27, 2022, 04:34:03 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on December 27, 2022, 01:37:08 PM
Once the Union City Bypass is completed, I think that all of the exits on US 51 between Interstate 155/US 412 and TN 183, the new bypass, and US 45W/US 51 to the southern terminus of the Purchase Parkway should all get exit numbers, based on the mileage of future Interstate 69 from the Mississippi/Tennessee border.
if only it was that easy. they still gotta redo the interchange at the kentucky/tennessee border and do the troy bypass.
hell wouldn't surprise me if US 51 followed I-69 around troy, similar to what they do with US 412 and I-40 in jackson, tn and they had a "business US 51" for troy.

The interchange is firmly in Tennessee, but a lot of the approach work will need to be done on the Kentucky side. I'm not sure which state is taking the lead on the project.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: civilengineeringnerd on December 27, 2022, 07:25:55 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 27, 2022, 06:25:55 PM
Quote from: civilengineeringnerd on December 27, 2022, 04:34:03 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on December 27, 2022, 01:37:08 PM
Once the Union City Bypass is completed, I think that all of the exits on US 51 between Interstate 155/US 412 and TN 183, the new bypass, and US 45W/US 51 to the southern terminus of the Purchase Parkway should all get exit numbers, based on the mileage of future Interstate 69 from the Mississippi/Tennessee border.
if only it was that easy. they still gotta redo the interchange at the kentucky/tennessee border and do the troy bypass.
hell wouldn't surprise me if US 51 followed I-69 around troy, similar to what they do with US 412 and I-40 in jackson, tn and they had a "business US 51" for troy.

The interchange is firmly in Tennessee, but a lot of the approach work will need to be done on the Kentucky side. I'm not sure which state is taking the lead on the project.
my take, is Kentucky should take the lead. we know how much TDOT isn't gonna do it, and Kentucky has to do the approach anyways.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: roadman65 on December 27, 2022, 07:34:36 PM
https://goo.gl/maps/7RVJrVwd3Uay3DUT9
This interchange should go defaulting US 51/45W into TN 214 while eliminating the freeway south of it here.  The bypass of the parclo where US 45E& W reunite should just split off south of here.  North of the parclo have a directional where the new I-69 would split.

This would extend both US 45E and 45W into KY and TN 214 to the state line and eliminate US 45 in Fulton, but seems logical.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on March 01, 2023, 11:56:15 AM
The Union City Bypass should be complete later this year:

https://www.wbbjtv.com/2023/02/15/update-given-on-new-interstate-69-in-west-tennessee/

(https://wpcdn.us-east-1.vip.tn-cloud.net/www.wbbjtv.com/content/uploads/2023/02/g/g/interstate-69-in-obion-county-2.png)

(Link originally posted in I-69 Texas thread.)
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on March 01, 2023, 01:12:46 PM
Now if they can just get a bypass of Troy constructed without the process taking forever.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: triplemultiplex on March 02, 2023, 01:35:34 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on March 01, 2023, 01:12:46 PM
Now if they can just get a bypass of Troy constructed without the process taking forever.
Coming fall, 2037!
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on March 03, 2023, 07:16:58 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on March 01, 2023, 01:12:46 PM
Now if they can just get a bypass of Troy constructed without the process taking forever.

Troy bypass and the interchange rebuild in Fulton, KY/South Fulton, TN.

Kentucky is moving on the upgrades to Future I-69 just North of the State Line.

KY and TN need to get the I-69/US 45W/US 51 interchanged fixed  This is a joint project IIRC.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: ZachCrouchScott on May 29, 2023, 11:37:53 PM
I live in Dyersburg. Feels like I'll be waiting another 30 years before I can finally use this as a quick route to Memphis. I mean, I am grateful for the utility of US 51, and thank God for I-155, but I-69 still definitely needs to happen. Tipton County is a clusterf***. Here's to hoping the new Ford plant ignites some more growth in that area. Will probably be the only thing that could light a fire under the ass of the legislature to finally put a priority on it.   
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: civilengineeringnerd on July 05, 2023, 01:29:27 PM
Quote from: ZachCrouchScott on May 29, 2023, 11:37:53 PM
I live in Dyersburg. Feels like I'll be waiting another 30 years before I can finally use this as a quick route to Memphis. I mean, I am grateful for the utility of US 51, and thank God for I-155, but I-69 still definitely needs to happen. Tipton County is a clusterf***. Here's to hoping the new Ford plant ignites some more growth in that area. Will probably be the only thing that could light a fire under the ass of the legislature to finally put a priority on it.
don't count on it, before tennessee can do anything rn, gas taxes have to be raised considerably by at least 30-50 cents and have a electric tax for charging EVs of the same as gas taxes.
theres still a backlog that TDOT is going through, and honestly it should be worth noting that it won't happen because state lawmakers have yet to be honest with the public and grew a backbone regarding gas taxes and adding to the gas tax law, the charging of EVs. if you charge a EV, you should be taxed the same tax rate as gas taxes. from what i can tell, we haven't got proper lawmakers still.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on July 05, 2023, 02:56:52 PM
I believe the days of the gas tax are numbered. The federal gas tax hasn't been raised in 30 years, and the diminishing revenues that gas taxes provide are increasingly diverted to non-road uses. It is time for new types of user fees to fund transportation projects in the United States.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: civilengineeringnerd on July 05, 2023, 03:27:07 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on July 05, 2023, 02:56:52 PM
I believe the days of the gas tax are numbered. The federal gas tax hasn't been raised in 30 years, and the diminishing revenues that gas taxes provide are increasingly diverted to non-road uses. It is time for new types of user fees to fund transportation projects in the United States.
personally i think you are right. a travel tax might be better, that allows for all fuels, not just gasoline powered vehicles.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on July 06, 2023, 09:29:53 AM
Quote from: civilengineeringnerd on July 05, 2023, 03:27:07 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on July 05, 2023, 02:56:52 PM
I believe the days of the gas tax are numbered. The federal gas tax hasn't been raised in 30 years, and the diminishing revenues that gas taxes provide are increasingly diverted to non-road uses. It is time for new types of user fees to fund transportation projects in the United States.
personally i think you are right. a travel tax might be better, that allows for all fuels, not just gasoline powered vehicles.
The problem with a Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT) tax is how to accurately account miles traveled in one state versus another in calculating the tax to be paid to each state. Requiring a GPS tracker in people's vehicles for the purpose of determining an owner's VMT liability introduces serious privacy concerns, and would likely be unconstitutional.

Alternatively, the VMT could be based on the vehicle's odometer reading at the time of registration, regardless of where the vehicle was driven, and the VMT would only be paid to the state in which the vehicle is registered. That would eliminate privacy concerns, but smaller states (in land area) would likely scream bloody murder over that proposal, as they would likely lose out on a lot of potential revenue for out-of-state vehicles driving through their states.

If a VMT is not pursued, then we need to figure out a way to apply a "charging tax" to electric vehicles. Just like a fuel tax for ICE vehicles, a charging tax would be applied for the amount of electricity an EV consumes for charging at a commercial charging station.

Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: seicer on July 06, 2023, 10:15:07 AM
An odometer tax is problematic for anyone that's done any sort of modifications to a vehicle (within legal limits). I'm considering putting new tires on the car but jumping from a 225 to a 235 or 245 size may throw off my speed by 3 MPH. That adds up.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on July 06, 2023, 11:50:14 AM
Quote from: abqtraveler on July 06, 2023, 09:29:53 AM

If a VMT is not pursued, then we need to figure out a way to apply a "charging tax" to electric vehicles. Just like a fuel tax for ICE vehicles, a charging tax would be applied for the amount of electricity an EV consumes for charging at a commercial charging station.

But how would you tax those who charge at home? Someone who buys an EV and only drives it locally would have no need for fueling up at a charging station.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on July 06, 2023, 01:02:23 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 06, 2023, 11:50:14 AM
Quote from: abqtraveler on July 06, 2023, 09:29:53 AM

If a VMT is not pursued, then we need to figure out a way to apply a "charging tax" to electric vehicles. Just like a fuel tax for ICE vehicles, a charging tax would be applied for the amount of electricity an EV consumes for charging at a commercial charging station.

But how would you tax those who charge at home? Someone who buys an EV and only drives it locally would have no need for fueling up at a charging station.
Perhaps an additional levy to your property taxes if you have an EV charger. For rental properties, that bill would go to the landlord, and the landlord can decide whether to pass that along to the tenant.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: seicer on July 06, 2023, 08:50:52 PM
That gets into a lot of privacy concerns. Would you allow an inspector on your property to see if you are plugging into your 120V at night to top off your battery? What about a Level 2 charger?

There really isn't a good answer. A flat tax for usage on EV owners has so far been the easiest solution that doesn't present privacy concerns, but even that comes with drawbacks. Vehicles would need to be taxed based on their weight if they are EVs. A battery-efficient EV, such as a Nissan ARIYA, shouldn't be levied as much of a tax as a Hummer which is obscenely large and heavy.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: vdeane on July 06, 2023, 08:52:51 PM
The simple answer: tax the electricity.  Yeah, you'd hit non-charging usage too, but our grid needs to be modernized, so I have no problem parceling out the money between the highway fund and a hypothetical grid modernization fund.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on July 07, 2023, 08:54:26 AM
Quote from: seicer on July 06, 2023, 08:50:52 PM
That gets into a lot of privacy concerns. Would you allow an inspector on your property to see if you are plugging into your 120V at night to top off your battery? What about a Level 2 charger?

There really isn't a good answer. A flat tax for usage on EV owners has so far been the easiest solution that doesn't present privacy concerns, but even that comes with drawbacks. Vehicles would need to be taxed based on their weight if they are EVs. A battery-efficient EV, such as a Nissan ARIYA, shouldn't be levied as much of a tax as a Hummer which is obscenely large and heavy.
Not necessarily. The taxing authorities would know you have an EV charger since in most jurisdictions, you would have to pull an electrical permit to have one installed, and then get it inspected before it can be used to make sure everything was done up to code. After the installation is completed and the EV charger passes its final inspection, the building inspector sends that information to the tax assessor, who would then add the "charger tax" to your property tax bill.  To address the privacy concerns, I would envision such a tax being imposed at a flat rate for simply having the charger, rather than trying to tax on a per kilowatt-hour basis.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: civilengineeringnerd on July 07, 2023, 09:25:39 PM
Quote from: abqtraveler on July 06, 2023, 09:29:53 AM
Quote from: civilengineeringnerd on July 05, 2023, 03:27:07 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on July 05, 2023, 02:56:52 PM
I believe the days of the gas tax are numbered. The federal gas tax hasn't been raised in 30 years, and the diminishing revenues that gas taxes provide are increasingly diverted to non-road uses. It is time for new types of user fees to fund transportation projects in the United States.
personally i think you are right. a travel tax might be better, that allows for all fuels, not just gasoline powered vehicles.
The problem with a Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT) tax is how to accurately account miles traveled in one state versus another in calculating the tax to be paid to each state. Requiring a GPS tracker in people's vehicles for the purpose of determining an owner's VMT liability introduces serious privacy concerns, and would likely be unconstitutional.

Alternatively, the VMT could be based on the vehicle's odometer reading at the time of registration, regardless of where the vehicle was driven, and the VMT would only be paid to the state in which the vehicle is registered. That would eliminate privacy concerns, but smaller states (in land area) would likely scream bloody murder over that proposal, as they would likely lose out on a lot of potential revenue for out-of-state vehicles driving through their states.

If a VMT is not pursued, then we need to figure out a way to apply a "charging tax" to electric vehicles. Just like a fuel tax for ICE vehicles, a charging tax would be applied for the amount of electricity an EV consumes for charging at a commercial charging station.
unless your car gets connected to a government database that scans the odometer on the car for miles traveled, i don't think a VMT tax is something that you can do.
personally a travel tax that is similar to gas tax but relies on all fuels, not just gasoline or diesel, to be taxed and convenience store items and lodging can be taxed under it as well.
its why i call it a "travel tax".
as for charging your tesla at home, i don't think that should be taxed, that should just be on your electric bill, just charging stations outside of the home, like at tesla superchargers or at those walmart charging stations.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: civilengineeringnerd on July 07, 2023, 09:36:49 PM
Quote from: abqtraveler on July 07, 2023, 08:54:26 AM
Quote from: seicer on July 06, 2023, 08:50:52 PM
That gets into a lot of privacy concerns. Would you allow an inspector on your property to see if you are plugging into your 120V at night to top off your battery? What about a Level 2 charger?

There really isn't a good answer. A flat tax for usage on EV owners has so far been the easiest solution that doesn't present privacy concerns, but even that comes with drawbacks. Vehicles would need to be taxed based on their weight if they are EVs. A battery-efficient EV, such as a Nissan ARIYA, shouldn't be levied as much of a tax as a Hummer which is obscenely large and heavy.
Not necessarily. The taxing authorities would know you have an EV charger since in most jurisdictions, you would have to pull an electrical permit to have one installed, and then get it inspected before it can be used to make sure everything was done up to code. After the installation is completed and the EV charger passes its final inspection, the building inspector sends that information to the tax assessor, who would then add the "charger tax" to your property tax bill.  To address the privacy concerns, I would envision such a tax being imposed at a flat rate for simply having the charger, rather than trying to tax on a per kilowatt-hour basis.
most homes in tennessee are not built to modern code, and haven't had a proper update in decades.
a lot of newer built homes like ones recently built in the last 20 years could in theory have a EV charger without must cost and instant approval by local code enforcement, the problem is charging a EV at home is just gonna rare in tennessee, since, again most homes are old and most of the growth is going to nashville and surrounding areas. even apartment buildings in west or east tennessee are rare to find thats recently renovated and even then, the landlord themselves probably ain't thinking bout getting a charger installed. the only ones that would think like that, are already thinking green and are investing money more in getting their own homes off the grid instead of the ones that they lease out.
so even if you could get any tax revenue from at home charging, you are much better off taxing only the commercially owned charging stations thats in the state already.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: civilengineeringnerd on July 07, 2023, 09:43:49 PM
Quote from: vdeane on July 06, 2023, 08:52:51 PM
The simple answer: tax the electricity.  Yeah, you'd hit non-charging usage too, but our grid needs to be modernized, so I have no problem parceling out the money between the highway fund and a hypothetical grid modernization fund.
well thats a great way to get people to go off grid faster here in the south.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: vdeane on July 08, 2023, 03:55:51 PM
How are people getting their homes off the grid?  I don't think people are doing that around here.  Even people with solar on their roof still have electric bills (and usually the solar panels benefit the utility company more than the homeowner).

Seems weird that they'd be more opposed to a buried electricity tax that you'd need to dissect your bill to notice over a VMT tax that would require them to file paperwork and write checks just like income tax.  Then again, as I understand it, car registration costs in the South tend to be MUCH higher than they are in NY (I pay ~$55 every other year), so maybe they're used to paying significant costs to drive that are unrelated to gas or maintenance.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Rick Powell on July 25, 2023, 10:44:58 AM
Quote from: civilengineeringnerd on July 07, 2023, 09:43:49 PM
well thats a great way to get people to go off grid faster here in the south.

Getting completely off the grid takes a substantial amount of money these days, requiring a lot of battery storage and more solar panels than a grid tied system to ensure that all the electricity you need to run your house can be collected and stored. A grid tied system is less money but is monitored by the power company.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on July 25, 2023, 01:29:25 PM
Even though the Interstate 69 Union City Bypass has not yet been completed, two businesses named Interstate 69 Marine and Interstate 69 Motorsports have set up shop on TN 22: https://www.google.com/maps/@36.4287797,-89.0745161,1006m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on July 28, 2023, 09:16:28 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on July 25, 2023, 01:29:25 PM
Even though the Interstate 69 Union City Bypass has not yet been completed, two businesses named Interstate 69 Marine and Interstate 69 Motorsports have set up shop on TN 22: https://www.google.com/maps/@36.4287797,-89.0745161,1006m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu.
News articles from earlier this year indicate the Union City Bypass will open some time this year, but I haven't seen any updates recently. Anyone have insider info on when the bypass around Union City might open up, or when work on the Troy Bypass will start?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: TNObion on July 31, 2023, 06:32:15 AM
Quote from: abqtraveler on July 28, 2023, 09:16:28 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on July 25, 2023, 01:29:25 PM
Even though the Interstate 69 Union City Bypass has not yet been completed, two businesses named Interstate 69 Marine and Interstate 69 Motorsports have set up shop on TN 22: https://www.google.com/maps/@36.4287797,-89.0745161,1006m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu.
News articles from earlier this year indicate the Union City Bypass will open some time this year, but I haven't seen any updates recently. Anyone have insider info on when the bypass around Union City might open up, or when work on the Troy Bypass will start?


Here's a press release from a few days ago-

   https://www.thunderboltradio.com/obion-county-update-on-highway-51-and-i-69-road-work/
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: roadman65 on July 31, 2023, 09:35:59 AM
This project is in a close race with Texas' Corpus Christi Harbor Bridge as far as time goes to be under construction.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: civilengineeringnerd on September 12, 2023, 11:44:22 PM
Quote from: TNObion on July 31, 2023, 06:32:15 AM
Quote from: abqtraveler on July 28, 2023, 09:16:28 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on July 25, 2023, 01:29:25 PM
Even though the Interstate 69 Union City Bypass has not yet been completed, two businesses named Interstate 69 Marine and Interstate 69 Motorsports have set up shop on TN 22: https://www.google.com/maps/@36.4287797,-89.0745161,1006m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu.
News articles from earlier this year indicate the Union City Bypass will open some time this year, but I haven't seen any updates recently. Anyone have insider info on when the bypass around Union City might open up, or when work on the Troy Bypass will start?


Here's a press release from a few days ago-

   https://www.thunderboltradio.com/obion-county-update-on-highway-51-and-i-69-road-work/
glad that bypass is finally getting finished.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on September 13, 2023, 11:33:53 AM
Now if they could do something about getting the Troy Bypass funded and constructed.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: lordsutch on September 18, 2023, 04:30:12 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 13, 2023, 11:33:53 AM
Now if they could do something about getting the Troy Bypass funded and constructed.

Considering that US 51 through Troy is one of the rural congestion hotspots (https://www.tn.gov/tdot/build-with-us/congestion.html) highlighted on TDOT's website, I'd imagine it's a fairly high priority for funding now that it (and the state line interchange/relocation) won't be competing as much with urban projects.

As far as SIU 8 goes, while this might be veering into fantasy, given how little Tennessee state politicians care for Memphis and the emergence of Blue Oval City, it wouldn't surprise me if they scrapped or reopened the SIU 8 environmental study and rerouted I-69 down from Covington to I-40 at future SR 194, where they're already planning a partial freeway spur from the interchange northward.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sprjus4 on September 18, 2023, 05:34:09 PM
Routing over to I-40 would be smart, IMO. It would cut the distance required of new construction between Memphis and Covington in half, and make use of the existing I-40 to enter the metropolitan area.

I-69 could overlap / replace I-240 on the south side - and I-269 would be a better bypass route for north-south traffic.

Additionally, the associated environmental and wetlands issues make the I-69 northern connection directly out of Memphis even less likely. However, from a local transportation standpoint, a freeway between Memphis and Millington, which I-69 would provide - would be useful to have. But might not be practical from a funding / environmental standpoint, unfortunately.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: splashflash on September 24, 2023, 10:12:08 PM
https://www.nwtntoday.com/2023/09/20/highway-reopens/

In an update Monday to the county commission, Obion County Mayor Steve Carr also said TDOT indicated its goal is to have the interstate loop around Union City ready for use by motorists by Thanksgiving, but there could be a little variance on that date.

Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on September 25, 2023, 03:11:36 PM
Quote from: splashflash on September 24, 2023, 10:12:08 PM
https://www.nwtntoday.com/2023/09/20/highway-reopens/

In an update Monday to the county commission, Obion County Mayor Steve Carr also said TDOT indicated its goal is to have the interstate loop around Union City ready for use by motorists by Thanksgiving, but there could be a little variance on that date.

Given that I=69 does not yet exist in Tennessee, wonder what the posted number will be?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on September 25, 2023, 08:22:08 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 25, 2023, 03:11:36 PM
Quote from: splashflash on September 24, 2023, 10:12:08 PM
https://www.nwtntoday.com/2023/09/20/highway-reopens/

In an update Monday to the county commission, Obion County Mayor Steve Carr also said TDOT indicated its goal is to have the interstate loop around Union City ready for use by motorists by Thanksgiving, but there could be a little variance on that date.

Given that I=69 does not yet exist in Tennessee, wonder what the posted number will be?

The signage plans I have seen have it signed as I-69. But I lost the document in a work computer swap a few years ago.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: triplemultiplex on September 26, 2023, 10:30:25 AM
I'll belabor this point one more time: 13 years to construct the UC bypass?  :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
You'd think Union City was crammed into the mountains somewhere surrounded by rich subdivisions and nature preserves rather than sitting on a flat plain surrounded by cotton fields.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on September 29, 2023, 09:29:21 AM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on September 25, 2023, 08:22:08 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 25, 2023, 03:11:36 PM
Quote from: splashflash on September 24, 2023, 10:12:08 PM
https://www.nwtntoday.com/2023/09/20/highway-reopens/

In an update Monday to the county commission, Obion County Mayor Steve Carr also said TDOT indicated its goal is to have the interstate loop around Union City ready for use by motorists by Thanksgiving, but there could be a little variance on that date.

Given that I=69 does not yet exist in Tennessee, wonder what the posted number will be?

The signage plans I have seen have it signed as I-69. But I lost the document in a work computer swap a few years ago.
The UC Bypass won't be connected to any other part of I-69 when it opens. Will the FHWA allow it to be signed as I-69, or will TDOT have to come up with a temporary designation until either the interchange at the state line or the Troy Bypass get finished?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Rick Powell on September 29, 2023, 11:36:39 AM
Quote from: abqtraveler on September 29, 2023, 09:29:21 AM
The UC Bypass won't be connected to any other part of I-69 when it opens. Will the FHWA allow it to be signed as I-69, or will TDOT have to come up with a temporary designation until either the interchange at the state line or the Troy Bypass get finished?
Sounds like a candidate for "To I-69" markers. If the UC freeway bypass temporarily becomes US 51 (due to inability to sign as I-69) does the existing UC loop become "Business 51"?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on September 29, 2023, 11:43:54 AM
How much do you want to bet that the Interstate 69 designation will ultimately be rerouted to follow Interstate 40 into Arkansas, ride up Interstate 55 to Hayti, MO, then replace all of Interstate 155 to the existing US 51 freeway, and the proposed Interstate 69 alignment between Memphis and Dyersburg is canceled altogether? Such a scenario does not seem that far-fetched to me.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Rick Powell on September 29, 2023, 04:44:46 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 29, 2023, 11:43:54 AM
How much do you want to bet that the Interstate 69 designation will ultimately be rerouted to follow Interstate 40 into Arkansas, ride up Interstate 55 to Hayti, MO, then replace all of Interstate 155 to the existing US 51 freeway, and the proposed Interstate 69 alignment between Memphis and Dyersburg is canceled altogether? Such a scenario does not seem that far-fetched to me.
Not far-fetched but presumes the 40/30 corridor which already needs to be beefed up, actually will be. Texas would be happy to connect to 30 at Texarkana via 369. This plan would likely save money over the current plan, even with the upgrades needed to make it work. Avoiding a MS River crossing might save enough money to build or rehab 100 or more miles of highway (although there is a large contingency here that thinks an additional river crossing is needed "somewhere" in TN/MS/AR regardless of I-69).
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: JREwing78 on September 29, 2023, 08:52:31 PM
Quote from: Rick Powell on September 29, 2023, 04:44:46 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 29, 2023, 11:43:54 AM
How much do you want to bet that the Interstate 69 designation will ultimately be rerouted to follow Interstate 40 into Arkansas, ride up Interstate 55 to Hayti, MO, then replace all of Interstate 155 to the existing US 51 freeway, and the proposed Interstate 69 alignment between Memphis and Dyersburg is canceled altogether? Such a scenario does not seem that far-fetched to me.
Not far-fetched but presumes the 40/30 corridor which already needs to be beefed up, actually will be. Texas would be happy to connect to 30 at Texarkana via 369. This plan would likely save money over the current plan, even with the upgrades needed to make it work. Avoiding a MS River crossing might save enough money to build or rehab 100 or more miles of highway (although there is a large contingency here that thinks an additional river crossing is needed "somewhere" in TN/MS/AR regardless of I-69).

Texas would certainly be fine with that idea. It doesn't do jack for Louisiana (including Shreveport), Arkansas, Mississippi, or western Tennessee though. In particular, if I was ARDOT, I'd refuse to post I-69 as any kind of duplex of I-30, I-40, or I-55. If the feds want a single designation bad enough, they need to spread the traffic (and associated commerce) around.

I-69 in Tennessee is kind of pointless if it's not connecting communities in western Tennessee, including Dyersburg, directly to Memphis. It's the 2nd largest metro in Tennessee and the 3rd largest metro I-69 is slated to run through (Houston and Indianapolis are larger). Even if I-69 never continues on south of Memphis, there's national importance in the route *reaching* Memphis - and not as a sidecar to I-55.

If, however, I-69 did end up in Missouri, US-412 between Hayti and Walnut Ridge would get significantly busier under that scenario. Currently, despite the jog north US-412 takes in Missouri, it's only 1 mile (but 12 minutes longer per Google) to follow that path instead of taking I-55 to I-40. An all-freeway rebuild of US-412 as I-69 would cut that time difference significantly. At that point, I would want to review a) I-57 existence south of Walnut Ridge, and b) I-30's existence east of Texarkana.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Hot Rod Hootenanny on October 12, 2023, 12:51:23 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 25, 2023, 03:11:36 PM
Quote from: splashflash on September 24, 2023, 10:12:08 PM
https://www.nwtntoday.com/2023/09/20/highway-reopens/

In an update Monday to the county commission, Obion County Mayor Steve Carr also said TDOT indicated its goal is to have the interstate loop around Union City ready for use by motorists by Thanksgiving, but there could be a little variance on that date.

Given that I=69 does not yet exist in Tennessee, wonder what the posted number will be?

From what I saw on Monday, I'd say Tennessee isn't sure yet.
----
South of Union City, along US 51 NB, we have...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53251419348_50196ac9f3_w.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2p8DrHN)

Staying on US 51 NB as you go northeast out of Union City, you will see...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53251622360_f59c614649_w.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2p8Eu51)
---
Rest of the Photo album (with some older photos mixed in)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/roadfan_reborn/albums/72177720311851862/with/53251622360/
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: 74/171FAN on October 12, 2023, 06:35:37 AM
In theory, it should be signed as TN 690 as a placeholder since it will not immediately connect to I-155 or I-69.  Also I think the US 45/US 45E/US 45W/US 51 interchange is just a partial cloverleaf and needs upgrades to be part of I-69.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Rick Powell on October 12, 2023, 11:19:20 AM
Quote from: 74/171FAN on October 12, 2023, 06:35:37 AM
In theory, it should be signed as TN 690 as a placeholder since it will not immediately connect to I-155 or I-69.  Also I think the US 45/US 45E/US 45W/US 51 interchange is just a partial cloverleaf and needs upgrades to be part of I-69.
The US 45/US 45E/US 45W/US 51 interchange has a stop sign controlled intersection that the US 51 (future I-69) NB lanes cross, a big no-no in getting the I-designation. There will be other geometric criteria that the feds will want to correct.
https://tinyurl.com/28eztv25

Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on October 12, 2023, 12:51:06 PM
Quote from: Rick Powell on October 12, 2023, 11:19:20 AM
Quote from: 74/171FAN on October 12, 2023, 06:35:37 AM
In theory, it should be signed as TN 690 as a placeholder since it will not immediately connect to I-155 or I-69.  Also I think the US 45/US 45E/US 45W/US 51 interchange is just a partial cloverleaf and needs upgrades to be part of I-69.
The US 45/US 45E/US 45W/US 51 interchange has a stop sign controlled intersection that the US 51 (future I-69) NB lanes cross, a big no-no in getting the I-designation. There will be other geometric criteria that the feds will want to correct.
https://tinyurl.com/28eztv25

The U-turn at TN 214 (Ken-Tenn Road) will also need to be addressed.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: lordsutch on October 12, 2023, 01:22:53 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 12, 2023, 12:51:06 PM
Quote from: Rick Powell on October 12, 2023, 11:19:20 AM
Quote from: 74/171FAN on October 12, 2023, 06:35:37 AM
In theory, it should be signed as TN 690 as a placeholder since it will not immediately connect to I-155 or I-69.  Also I think the US 45/US 45E/US 45W/US 51 interchange is just a partial cloverleaf and needs upgrades to be part of I-69.
The US 45/US 45E/US 45W/US 51 interchange has a stop sign controlled intersection that the US 51 (future I-69) NB lanes cross, a big no-no in getting the I-designation. There will be other geometric criteria that the feds will want to correct.
https://tinyurl.com/28eztv25

The U-turn at TN 214 (Ken-Tenn Road) will also need to be addressed.

Correct. TDOT and KYTC have a project in the Tennessee STIP for engineering on the state line interchange; the sketch in the TDOT STIP shows the I-69 mainline continuing northeast and then curving northwest to tie in north of the state line about where the weigh station is now.

There's nothing suggesting what will come of TN 214 but due to interchange spacing they probably will get rid of the ramps and have it tie in to Old Pierce Road or extend it east to US 45E at the existing at-grade by the middle/high school. Nor is there any indication of what if any local access will be provided to South Fulton from I-69; there probably isn't enough traffic to justify anything fancy.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: wriddle082 on October 12, 2023, 11:44:53 PM
Quote from: lordsutch on October 12, 2023, 01:22:53 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 12, 2023, 12:51:06 PM
Quote from: Rick Powell on October 12, 2023, 11:19:20 AM
Quote from: 74/171FAN on October 12, 2023, 06:35:37 AM
In theory, it should be signed as TN 690 as a placeholder since it will not immediately connect to I-155 or I-69.  Also I think the US 45/US 45E/US 45W/US 51 interchange is just a partial cloverleaf and needs upgrades to be part of I-69.
The US 45/US 45E/US 45W/US 51 interchange has a stop sign controlled intersection that the US 51 (future I-69) NB lanes cross, a big no-no in getting the I-designation. There will be other geometric criteria that the feds will want to correct.
https://tinyurl.com/28eztv25

The U-turn at TN 214 (Ken-Tenn Road) will also need to be addressed.

Correct. TDOT and KYTC have a project in the Tennessee STIP for engineering on the state line interchange; the sketch in the TDOT STIP shows the I-69 mainline continuing northeast and then curving northwest to tie in north of the state line about where the weigh station is now.

There's nothing suggesting what will come of TN 214 but due to interchange spacing they probably will get rid of the ramps and have it tie in to Old Pierce Road or extend it east to US 45E at the existing at-grade by the middle/high school. Nor is there any indication of what if any local access will be provided to South Fulton from I-69; there probably isn't enough traffic to justify anything fancy.

What if they built something like they're doing with I-55 and Crump Blvd/Riverside Dr in Memphis?  Make the I-69 mainline curve from northeast to north, make 45/45E/45W/51 and maybe also TN 214 all meet at a large roundabout, and just build two bridges for 69 south traffic going into and coming out of the roundabout.  I'm thinking that two ramp bridges wouldn't be too expensive to build.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Rick Powell on October 13, 2023, 12:29:44 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 12, 2023, 12:51:06 PM
The U-turn at TN 214 (Ken-Tenn Road) will also need to be addressed.

Possibly, but this median U-Turn on I-55 near Wilmington, IL was allowed to exist for decades until it was removed a few years ago. Ultimately it would be removed, but the feds might allow it to be grandfathered for a while in a signed I-69.

https://tinyurl.com/34576jtu
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sprjus4 on October 13, 2023, 02:24:25 AM
Quote from: Rick Powell on October 13, 2023, 12:29:44 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 12, 2023, 12:51:06 PM
The U-turn at TN 214 (Ken-Tenn Road) will also need to be addressed.

Possibly, but this median U-Turn on I-55 near Wilmington, IL was allowed to exist for decades until it was removed a few years ago. Ultimately it would be removed, but the feds might allow it to be grandfathered for a while in a signed I-69.

https://tinyurl.com/34576jtu
The difference is that median U-turn had acceleration / deceleration lanes, albeit small. And was a ramp design, with no straight open median break.

That's not the case with this Future I-69 example. It's a standard median break with a small turn lane.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Rick Powell on October 13, 2023, 12:08:47 PM
Quote from: lordsutch on October 12, 2023, 01:22:53 PM

Correct. TDOT and KYTC have a project in the Tennessee STIP for engineering on the state line interchange; the sketch in the TDOT STIP shows the I-69 mainline continuing northeast and then curving northwest to tie in north of the state line about where the weigh station is now.

There's nothing suggesting what will come of TN 214 but due to interchange spacing they probably will get rid of the ramps and have it tie in to Old Pierce Road or extend it east to US 45E at the existing at-grade by the middle/high school. Nor is there any indication of what if any local access will be provided to South Fulton from I-69; there probably isn't enough traffic to justify anything fancy.

This is the link to the STIP item, apparently the total cost is around $53M and they will spend about $3M on the planning.

https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/programdevelopment/rural-modifications/Rural%20Mod%20199%202066060.pdf
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Hot Rod Hootenanny on October 13, 2023, 12:36:39 PM
I wasn't expecting Tn/Ky to go east of the 51-45s interchange and essentially blow up the weigh station. But I guess that would affect the least amount of built structures compared to staying west of everything.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on October 13, 2023, 04:12:48 PM
This seems like this will be a complex project. Will they also close all ramps at Exit 0 and have all traffic accessing Fulton to use Exits 1 and 2 instead?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on October 13, 2023, 05:52:36 PM
No reason they couldn't do something similar to what they did for the I-24/Purchase Parkway or WK/Pennyrile interchanges. Do a two-lane flyover and let the rest of the interchange basically remain as-is.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on November 14, 2023, 10:46:40 AM
Google Maps Car drove over Future I-69 near Union City  in September on Walker Tanner Road, giving us a nice view of the almost completed Union City Bypass:

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.4029975,-89.0933147,3a,20.6y,43.87h,87.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sj9FyDJN6LDlIZFtGBDC9pQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m2!1e4!1e1?entry=ttu

Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: roadman65 on November 14, 2023, 11:12:42 AM
 ^^^^^^I will say that the Quality Inn and Hampton did both right building their hotels at the locations they're at, as once I-69 is completed, the interchange south of it will make them EZ on and off for interstate travelers using the new exchange. 

Of course Walmart is up the road ( and easy access as well from the next interchange north on the future freeway) which will induce more sprawl once the freeway opens. I predict that the area there will be Union City's main motorist service interchange for gas, food, and lodging once I-69 takes control as the main N-S thoroughfare.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: ITB on November 14, 2023, 05:52:41 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on November 14, 2023, 10:46:40 AM
Google Maps Car drove over Future I-69 near Union City  in September on Walker Tanner Road, giving us a nice view of the almost completed Union City Bypass:

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.4029975,-89.0933147,3a,20.6y,43.87h,87.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sj9FyDJN6LDlIZFtGBDC9pQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m2!1e4!1e1?entry=ttu

Nice find. Thanks for posting the link!
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on November 15, 2023, 09:31:47 AM
Quote from: ITB on November 14, 2023, 05:52:41 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on November 14, 2023, 10:46:40 AM
Google Maps Car drove over Future I-69 near Union City  in September on Walker Tanner Road, giving us a nice view of the almost completed Union City Bypass:

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.4029975,-89.0933147,3a,20.6y,43.87h,87.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sj9FyDJN6LDlIZFtGBDC9pQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m2!1e4!1e1?entry=ttu

Nice find. Thanks for posting the link!
Looks like it's getting pretty close to finished. Any word on when the bypass around Union City will open?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Hot Rod Hootenanny on November 15, 2023, 11:54:58 PM
Quote from: abqtraveler on November 15, 2023, 09:31:47 AM
Quote from: ITB on November 14, 2023, 05:52:41 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on November 14, 2023, 10:46:40 AM
Google Maps Car drove over Future I-69 near Union City  in September on Walker Tanner Road, giving us a nice view of the almost completed Union City Bypass:

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.4029975,-89.0933147,3a,20.6y,43.87h,87.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sj9FyDJN6LDlIZFtGBDC9pQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m2!1e4!1e1?entry=ttu

Nice find. Thanks for posting the link!
Looks like it's getting pretty close to finished. Any word on when the bypass around Union City will open?

From 2 months ago, Supposedly next week.
https://www.nwtntoday.com/2023/09/20/highway-reopens/
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on November 16, 2023, 09:23:17 AM
Quote from: ITB on November 14, 2023, 05:52:41 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on November 14, 2023, 10:46:40 AM
Google Maps Car drove over Future I-69 near Union City  in September on Walker Tanner Road, giving us a nice view of the almost completed Union City Bypass:

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.4029975,-89.0933147,3a,20.6y,43.87h,87.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sj9FyDJN6LDlIZFtGBDC9pQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m2!1e4!1e1?entry=ttu

Nice find. Thanks for posting the link!

You're welcome!
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on November 16, 2023, 03:37:39 PM
Some of the roads future Interstate 69 crosses have not had their Street Views updated since construction commenced, including its junction with US 45W/US 51. Hopefully, those will eventually be updated.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on November 22, 2023, 10:10:47 AM
If they were hoping to get the Union City bypass open for Thanksgiving, they are running out of time...
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Strider on November 22, 2023, 05:10:15 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on November 22, 2023, 10:10:47 AM
If they were hoping to get the Union City bypass open for Thanksgiving, they are running out of time...

Still not open?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: TNObion on November 23, 2023, 03:53:55 PM
Quote from: Strider on November 22, 2023, 05:10:15 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on November 22, 2023, 10:10:47 AM
If they were hoping to get the Union City bypass open for Thanksgiving, they are running out of time...

Still not open?

Not yet.  I'm local to the area, and we had a big press release when 51 was opened back up a month or so ago with promises to have it opened up by the Thanksgiving weekend. Snapped these photos in the Claude Tucker Rd area this morning-

https://imgur.com/a/VR8SqqV
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Strider on November 23, 2023, 05:52:36 PM
Quote from: TNObion on November 23, 2023, 03:53:55 PM
Quote from: Strider on November 22, 2023, 05:10:15 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on November 22, 2023, 10:10:47 AM
If they were hoping to get the Union City bypass open for Thanksgiving, they are running out of time...

Still not open?

Not yet.  I'm local to the area, and we had a big press release when 51 was opened back up a month or so ago with promises to have it opened up by the Thanksgiving weekend. Snapped these photos in the Claude Tucker Rd area this morning-

https://imgur.com/a/VR8SqqV


It looks good and ready. I guess there are some final touches that have not been completed?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: rickmastfan67 on November 23, 2023, 06:31:34 PM
Quote from: TNObion on November 23, 2023, 03:53:55 PM
Quote from: Strider on November 22, 2023, 05:10:15 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on November 22, 2023, 10:10:47 AM
If they were hoping to get the Union City bypass open for Thanksgiving, they are running out of time...

Still not open?

Not yet.  I'm local to the area, and we had a big press release when 51 was opened back up a month or so ago with promises to have it opened up by the Thanksgiving weekend. Snapped these photos in the Claude Tucker Rd area this morning-

https://imgur.com/a/VR8SqqV

Has TDOT figure out how they want to post it yet based on what's posted in the field? lol.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: ilpt4u on November 23, 2023, 06:49:54 PM
^^^^^^^^^ So I wasn't the only one who noticed the Tennessee State Route 690 shield
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Hot Rod Hootenanny on November 23, 2023, 08:38:35 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on November 23, 2023, 06:49:54 PM
^^^^^^^^^ So I wasn't the only one who noticed the Tennessee State Route 690 shield

Nope.
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3841.msg2875589#msg2875589
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on November 24, 2023, 04:42:03 PM
Is TN 690 a temporary designation along the future Interstate 69 corridor? They couldn't temporarily number it TN 69 (like they've done in North Carolina) since one has existed since 1923.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sprjus4 on November 24, 2023, 05:47:23 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on November 24, 2023, 04:42:03 PM
Is TN 690 a temporary designation along the future Interstate 69 corridor?
Picture seems to paint itself pretty clear.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: rickmastfan67 on November 24, 2023, 10:24:38 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on November 24, 2023, 05:47:23 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on November 24, 2023, 04:42:03 PM
Is TN 690 a temporary designation along the future Interstate 69 corridor?
Picture seems to paint itself pretty clear.

But the 'southern' end had I-69 shields in the other post. lol.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: wriddle082 on November 24, 2023, 11:17:23 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on November 24, 2023, 04:42:03 PM
Is TN 690 a temporary designation along the future Interstate 69 corridor? They couldn't temporarily number it TN 69 (like they've done in North Carolina) since one has existed since 1923.

There is already a TN 69.  It runs from the Alabama border southeast of Savannah all the way to the Kentucky border northwest of Paris.  Much of it is superceded by US 641, but it does have significant stretches where it runs alone at each end.  There's even a TN 69A that runs from Camden to Paris via Big Sandy.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on November 24, 2023, 11:44:42 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on November 24, 2023, 05:47:23 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on November 24, 2023, 04:42:03 PM
Is TN 690 a temporary designation along the future Interstate 69 corridor?
Picture seems to paint itself pretty clear.
It would seem to make sense to me that TN-690 would be a temporary designation for I-69 around Union City until it connects to other parts of I-69. Arkansas did the same thing with completed sections of I-49 that didn't yet connect to another section of interstate...they gave them the temporary designation of AR-549.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on November 25, 2023, 07:15:25 PM
Maybe the TN 690 designation will last until the Troy Bypass is completed. Personally, I would have signed it as Future Interstate 69, like North Carolina does on future Interstate 26 north of Asheville.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on November 26, 2023, 12:14:25 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on November 25, 2023, 07:15:25 PM
Maybe the TN 690 designation will last until the Troy Bypass is completed. Personally, I would have signed it as Future Interstate 69, like North Carolina does on future Interstate 26 north of Asheville.
Or maybe they could have applied for a temporary designation BYPASS US-51 until it connected to I-155 to the south and the interchange at the KY state line is reconfigured.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on November 27, 2023, 08:09:29 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on November 25, 2023, 07:15:25 PM
Maybe the TN 690 designation will last until the Troy Bypass is completed. Personally, I would have signed it as Future Interstate 69, like North Carolina does on future Interstate 26 north of Asheville.

It will probably last until the Fulton/South Fulton interchanges are fixed which I think is further along.  Kentucky will have I-69 finished to Exit 1 in Fulton by the end of 2024.  The state line interchanges and reroute should not take nearly as long as new construction around Troy, So we should have I-69 complete from US 51 to just South of the Ohio river in a few years.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on November 27, 2023, 08:20:44 AM
Quote from: Rick Powell on October 13, 2023, 12:08:47 PM
Quote from: lordsutch on October 12, 2023, 01:22:53 PM

Correct. TDOT and KYTC have a project in the Tennessee STIP for engineering on the state line interchange; the sketch in the TDOT STIP shows the I-69 mainline continuing northeast and then curving northwest to tie in north of the state line about where the weigh station is now.

There's nothing suggesting what will come of TN 214 but due to interchange spacing they probably will get rid of the ramps and have it tie in to Old Pierce Road or extend it east to US 45E at the existing at-grade by the middle/high school. Nor is there any indication of what if any local access will be provided to South Fulton from I-69; there probably isn't enough traffic to justify anything fancy.

This is the link to the STIP item, apparently the total cost is around $53M and they will spend about $3M on the planning.

https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/programdevelopment/rural-modifications/Rural%20Mod%20199%202066060.pdf

What kind of timeline are we looking at for this project?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on November 27, 2023, 12:02:40 PM
Quote from: wriddle082 on November 24, 2023, 11:17:23 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on November 24, 2023, 04:42:03 PM
Is TN 690 a temporary designation along the future Interstate 69 corridor? They couldn't temporarily number it TN 69 (like they've done in North Carolina) since one has existed since 1923.

There is already a TN 69.  It runs from the Alabama border southeast of Savannah all the way to the Kentucky border northwest of Paris.  Much of it is superceded by US 641, but it does have significant stretches where it runs alone at each end.  There's even a TN 69A that runs from Camden to Paris via Big Sandy.

And not all that far east of the I-69 corridor, either.

Interestingly, Kentucky has not yet changed the numbers of either KY 69 or KY 165, which still exist. KY 165 is on the other end of the state, but KY 69 is relatively close to I-69.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: triplemultiplex on December 01, 2023, 04:04:31 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on November 14, 2023, 11:12:42 AM
^^^^^^I will say that the Quality Inn and Hampton did both right building their hotels at the locations they're at, as once I-69 is completed, the interchange south of it will make them EZ on and off for interstate travelers using the new exchange. 

Those hotels predate any inkling of the location of I-69 by quite a bit; especially the Quality Inn. ;)


For the record, that's 13 years of construction for this measly chunk of I-69. Some of that pavement is almost a decade old already.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on December 02, 2023, 01:14:38 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on December 01, 2023, 04:04:31 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on November 14, 2023, 11:12:42 AM
^^^^^^I will say that the Quality Inn and Hampton did both right building their hotels at the locations they're at, as once I-69 is completed, the interchange south of it will make them EZ on and off for interstate travelers using the new exchange. 

Those hotels predate any inkling of the location of I-69 by quite a bit; especially the Quality Inn. ;)


For the record, that's 13 years of construction for this measly chunk of I-69. Some of that pavement is almost a decade old already.


The grading is a decade old. The paving project started in 2021.

https://www.jacksonsun.com/story/news/2021/07/16/paving-interstate-69-bypass-obion-county-tennessee/7937940002/
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on December 03, 2023, 07:59:21 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on December 02, 2023, 01:14:38 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on December 01, 2023, 04:04:31 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on November 14, 2023, 11:12:42 AM
^^^^^^I will say that the Quality Inn and Hampton did both right building their hotels at the locations they're at, as once I-69 is completed, the interchange south of it will make them EZ on and off for interstate travelers using the new exchange. 

Those hotels predate any inkling of the location of I-69 by quite a bit; especially the Quality Inn. ;)


For the record, that's 13 years of construction for this measly chunk of I-69. Some of that pavement is almost a decade old already.


The grading is a decade old. The paving project started in 2021.

https://www.jacksonsun.com/story/news/2021/07/16/paving-interstate-69-bypass-obion-county-tennessee/7937940002/
Some of the bridges are a decade old.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on December 04, 2023, 06:29:25 AM
Quote from: abqtraveler on December 03, 2023, 07:59:21 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on December 02, 2023, 01:14:38 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on December 01, 2023, 04:04:31 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on November 14, 2023, 11:12:42 AM
^^^^^^I will say that the Quality Inn and Hampton did both right building their hotels at the locations they're at, as once I-69 is completed, the interchange south of it will make them EZ on and off for interstate travelers using the new exchange. 

Those hotels predate any inkling of the location of I-69 by quite a bit; especially the Quality Inn. ;)


For the record, that's 13 years of construction for this measly chunk of I-69. Some of that pavement is almost a decade old already.


The grading is a decade old. The paving project started in 2021.

https://www.jacksonsun.com/story/news/2021/07/16/paving-interstate-69-bypass-obion-county-tennessee/7937940002/
Some of the bridges are a decade old.

That would be true for the bridges of the center section of the bypass  (TN 22, Brevard Road, Mt. Zion Road, and Perry Browder Road), not the Southern section, or obviously, the Northern section.  Those two interchanges and the MtZ & PB Rd. overpass were all built circa 2012.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: TNObion on December 04, 2023, 07:43:59 PM
Press release today w/ Obion County Mayor regarding the 690 signage. Still no timeframe on when it will be open.

https://www.thunderboltradio.com/2023/12/04/obion-county-mayor-explains-690-road-signage-on-new-project/
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: rickmastfan67 on December 05, 2023, 02:23:57 AM
Well, at least that confirms it will indeed be TN-690 to start instead of I-69.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Great Lakes Roads on December 05, 2023, 03:17:33 AM
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on December 05, 2023, 02:23:57 AM
Well, at least that confirms it will indeed be TN-690 to start instead of I-69.

Doing Arkansas's approach, I see...  :bigass:
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on December 06, 2023, 08:33:43 PM
Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on December 05, 2023, 03:17:33 AM
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on December 05, 2023, 02:23:57 AM
Well, at least that confirms it will indeed be TN-690 to start instead of I-69.

Doing Arkansas's approach, I see...  :bigass:
It makes sense to give the Union City Bypass a temporary designation, because the interchange at the state line still needs to be reconstructed, and the Troy Bypass still needs to be built before it connects to any other part of the interstate system (I-69 in KY and I-155 to the south). Don't hold your breath on either of those projects happening anytime soon.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Alex on December 07, 2023, 08:07:33 AM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum_images/southeast/union-city-tn-11-16-23.jpg) (http://www.aaroads.com/forum_images/southeast/union-city-tn-11-16-23.jpg)

Progress as of November 16, 2023. Looks like pavement is finally down on that northern section.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: civilengineeringnerd on December 09, 2023, 10:16:41 AM
Quote from: abqtraveler on December 06, 2023, 08:33:43 PM
Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on December 05, 2023, 03:17:33 AM
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on December 05, 2023, 02:23:57 AM
Well, at least that confirms it will indeed be TN-690 to start instead of I-69.

Doing Arkansas's approach, I see...  :bigass:
It makes sense to give the Union City Bypass a temporary designation, because the interchange at the state line still needs to be reconstructed, and the Troy Bypass still needs to be built before it connects to any other part of the interstate system (I-69 in KY and I-155 to the south). Don't hold your breath on either of those projects happening anytime soon.
while i don't know the current progress in kentucky, i would imagine right after the union city bypass gets completed they might start work on the troy bypass as well. they did kinda do that in jackson when they widened the interstate, so it could be a possibility.
however, im not holding any breath at this point, I-69 was a dead project till a couple of years ago, perhaps with kentucky starting on the ohio river crossing and making plans for the southern end of I-69, it probably gave tennessee the political kick in the pants they needed to do some much needed rework on how stuff got funded.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on December 11, 2023, 12:23:38 PM
Hopefully, once the Troy Bypass begins construction (I believe there is no date for construction as of right now), it doesn't take over a decade to complete it. What exactly were the factors in the Union City Bypass taking so long to construct? Was it merely a lack of funding, or are there other explanations?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on December 12, 2023, 07:30:45 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on December 11, 2023, 12:23:38 PM
Hopefully, once the Troy Bypass begins construction (I believe there is no date for construction as of right now), it doesn't take over a decade to complete it. What exactly were the factors in the Union City Bypass taking so long to construct? Was it merely a lack of funding, or are there other explanations?

Funding and low priority.  Once Kentucky made progress on upgrading the Purchase Parkway to Interstate 69, Tennessee increased the priority and recommitted to finishing I-69 to the junction with I-155
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Henry on December 12, 2023, 10:26:56 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on December 12, 2023, 07:30:45 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on December 11, 2023, 12:23:38 PM
Hopefully, once the Troy Bypass begins construction (I believe there is no date for construction as of right now), it doesn't take over a decade to complete it. What exactly were the factors in the Union City Bypass taking so long to construct? Was it merely a lack of funding, or are there other explanations?

Funding and low priority.  Once Kentucky made progress on upgrading the Purchase Parkway to Interstate 69, Tennessee increased the priority and recommitted to finishing I-69 to the junction with I-155
Does anyone have an idea on when the Dyersburg-Memphis section will start construction?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on December 12, 2023, 10:31:01 PM
When hell freezes over! That's as good of a guess as any.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: MikeTheActuary on December 12, 2023, 11:12:00 PM
I-69 between Dyersburg and Millington will be built after oil is discovered in Tennessee and the state suddenly becomes flush with cash.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Anthony_JK on December 13, 2023, 08:29:53 AM
But, it will ultimately be built, because any other option that bypasses central Memphis and forces I-69 through traffic to bypass Memphis completely (which any southern crossing/I-55 via West Memphis option would end up doing) would be a non-starter.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on December 13, 2023, 10:38:36 AM
Congress will have to provide federal funding before the state of Tennessee will ever move forward with building Interstate 69 between Memphis and Dyersburg. Without that funding, the two projects to complete 69 (dubbed SIU 8 and SIU 9) will lay dormant. It could be decades before the environmental studies are completed, and right-of-way acquisition occurs, not to mention construction of the corridor. That is, if it happens at all.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: vdeane on December 13, 2023, 12:49:46 PM
Quote from: Anthony_JK on December 13, 2023, 08:29:53 AM
But, it will ultimately be built, because any other option that bypasses central Memphis and forces I-69 through traffic to bypass Memphis completely (which any southern crossing/I-55 via West Memphis option would end up doing) would be a non-starter.

They could just leave a gap, especially as the chances of Mississippi building more than they already have are even lower.  It's not like there's a deadline on completing it or anything.  Ever hear the phrase "tomorrow never comes"?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on December 13, 2023, 12:59:32 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on December 13, 2023, 10:38:36 AM
Congress will have to provide federal funding before the state of Tennessee will ever move forward with building Interstate 69 between Memphis and Dyersburg. Without that funding, the two projects to complete 69 (dubbed SIU 8 and SIU 9) will lay dormant. It could be decades before the environmental studies are completed, and right-of-way acquisition occurs, not to mention construction of the corridor. That is, if it happens at all.
Congress has pretty much gotten out of the business of earmarking funds for specific road projects. Instead, Congress gives states a chunk of highway money each fiscal year, and leave it up to the states on how they prioritize projects for funding. That being said, there are several competitive grant programs that Tennessee could apply for in an attempt to secure additional federal funding for major projects like I-69, but typically those projects have to be "shovel ready" when the grant application is submitted.  For example, Kentucky and Indiana have submitted a $623 million INFRA Grant application to the FHWA to fully fund construction of the Ohio River Bridge. If Tennessee were inclined to do so, they could also apply for such grants for their portion of I-69. No guarantee Tennessee will get all of the funding they apply for, but there's a chance they'll get something than not applying at all.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: lordsutch on December 13, 2023, 02:20:43 PM
Quote from: abqtraveler on December 13, 2023, 12:59:32 PM
Congress has pretty much gotten out of the business of earmarking funds for specific road projects. Instead, Congress gives states a chunk of highway money each fiscal year, and leave it up to the states on how they prioritize projects for funding. That being said, there are several competitive grant programs that Tennessee could apply for in an attempt to secure additional federal funding for major projects like I-69, but typically those projects have to be "shovel ready" when the grant application is submitted.  For example, Kentucky and Indiana have submitted a $623 million INFRA Grant application to the FHWA to fully fund construction of the Ohio River Bridge. If Tennessee were inclined to do so, they could also apply for such grants for their portion of I-69. No guarantee Tennessee will get all of the funding they apply for, but there's a chance they'll get something than not applying at all.

Earmarking has actually had a bit of a comeback lately. That said (as I think I've mentioned before) there are a couple of competing concepts at play for completing I-69 in Tennessee; on the one hand, the section of US 51 from Millington up through Atoka to Covington is becoming increasingly built up and will likely need a bypass of some form. That middle section would probably create enough impetus to connect north and south to complete the corridor over the medium to long term.

On the other hand, there's likely to be a need for better access to and from the Blue Oval City site to the north, and logically a rerouted I-69 from Dyersburg to the TN 194 extension/spur would make sense, both to take advantage of the underutilized I-155 crossing and to save a bit on mileage with an I-40 duplex (and I-40 will need widening either way). But that wouldn't do much to help with US 51 south of Covington, since a rerouted I-69 would probably connect into US 51 north of Covington or further up.

Another factor to consider is that with TDOT planning to move most urban Interstate widening into "choice lanes" (i.e. tolled express lanes), that should free up a lot of cash for rural projects, and west Tennessee is substantially cheaper to build in than central and eastern Tennessee due to terrain. Given the choice between I-69 and a revived I-475 or I-840 north or something, I-69 would be much easier to justify on a dollars-per-mile basis if nothing else.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: lordsutch on December 19, 2023, 12:37:54 AM
TDOT has posted a diagram of the proposed layout for the I-69 state line interchange with US 45E/US 51 at South Fulton on their revamped I-69 page at this link (https://www.tn.gov/tdot/projects/region-4/interstate-69-corridor.html).

The preferred alternative essentially extends TN 214 as a frontage road to meet US 45E at-grade south of the existing interchange and continues it northeast to tie into the Chickasaw Drive/US 45 route. I-69 would have a diamond interchange over US 45E using the existing bridges before curving to tie into the Purchase Parkway about 2000 feet north of the state line. The existing road north of the interchange would lose one of its carriageways and be shifted west to tie into the western Purchase Parkway frontage road crossing State Line Street at grade, which would not be cut off by I-69 (the diagram isn't clear on whether there would be an overpass or underpass here). So there'd no longer be free-flow from the Purchase Parkway to/from US 45E. Also, the existing ramp from US 51 south to TN 214 looks like it will probably be removed to avoid weaving and keep local traffic from using I-69 as a shortcut. This link (https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/region-4/i-69_2.jpgf) may or may not work for you without renaming the file. The project construction is currently programmed to start in FY2028.

The page also says the Union City bypass is opening in "early 2024." There is no mention of the Troy bypass either on the page or in the 10-year TDOT plan.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: seicer on December 19, 2023, 10:35:29 AM
I can't open the image - can you screenshot it and link to it?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: rickmastfan67 on December 19, 2023, 10:48:30 AM
Quote from: seicer on December 19, 2023, 10:35:29 AM
I can't open the image - can you screenshot it and link to it?

If you're on your PC, you have to save it to your desktop, and rename it to a proper JPG file.  They added an extra 'f' at the end for some odd reason.

Anyways, here's the image.

(https://i.imgur.com/yh2K5vY.jpg)
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: wriddle082 on December 19, 2023, 11:08:58 AM
Ok so it looks like Kentucky is going to lose their weigh station.  Is Tennessee is going to rebuild it for them?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on December 19, 2023, 01:21:30 PM
Quote from: lordsutch on December 19, 2023, 12:37:54 AM
TDOT has posted a diagram of the proposed layout for the I-69 state line interchange with US 45E/US 51 at South Fulton on their revamped I-69 page at this link (https://www.tn.gov/tdot/projects/region-4/interstate-69-corridor.html).

The preferred alternative essentially extends TN 214 as a frontage road to meet US 45E at-grade south of the existing interchange and continues it northeast to tie into the Chickasaw Drive/US 45 route. I-69 would have a diamond interchange over US 45E using the existing bridges before curving to tie into the Purchase Parkway about 2000 feet north of the state line. The existing road north of the interchange would lose one of its carriageways and be shifted west to tie into the western Purchase Parkway frontage road crossing State Line Street at grade, which would not be cut off by I-69 (the diagram isn't clear on whether there would be an overpass or underpass here). So there'd no longer be free-flow from the Purchase Parkway to/from US 45E. Also, the existing ramp from US 51 south to TN 214 looks like it will probably be removed to avoid weaving and keep local traffic from using I-69 as a shortcut. This link (https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/region-4/i-69_2.jpgf) may or may not work for you without renaming the file. The project construction is currently programmed to start in FY2028.

The page also says the Union City bypass is opening in "early 2024." There is no mention of the Troy bypass either on the page or in the 10-year TDOT plan.
That's interesting that the 10-Year Plan makes no mention of the Troy Bypass. I would think they would want to prioritize the Troy Bypass, given that it would complete I-69 between the KY state line and I-155. But another interesting, albeit not surprising observation, is that the lion share of projects for prioritized funding in the 10-Year Plan form a triangle between Nashville, Knoxville, and Chattanooga. There are not very many projects in the 10-Year Plan that fall outside that triangle.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on December 19, 2023, 01:50:08 PM
Maybe they don't have sufficient funding for the Troy Bypass. Another possible explanation is that the Troy Bypass is a low-priority at Tennessee's DOT. And considering how long it has taken to build the Union City Bypass, even if the Troy Bypass was shovel-ready, it might take just as long to complete it as well.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: seicer on December 19, 2023, 02:03:18 PM
Thanks for the image!

This seems to be a solid improvement that preserves the Whitesell Farm. I suspect KYTC will build a new weigh station north of Fulton. There is no reason for it to be at milepost 0.

On a side note, was the weigh station originally a rest area/welcome center?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: lordsutch on December 20, 2023, 06:01:06 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on December 19, 2023, 01:50:08 PM
Maybe they don't have sufficient funding for the Troy Bypass. Another possible explanation is that the Troy Bypass is a low-priority at Tennessee's DOT. And considering how long it has taken to build the Union City Bypass, even if the Troy Bypass was shovel-ready, it might take just as long to complete it as well.

Not sure what the deal is, since the first section of the Troy bypass is in the 2023–26 STIP (https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/programdevelopment/2023-2026-stip-draft/Tennessee%20STIP%202023-2026%20Final_R%205-19-23.pdf) (page 81) with construction programmed for FY2025, and there's no proposed amendment to remove it from the STIP.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Rick Powell on December 20, 2023, 10:26:20 PM
Quote from: lordsutch on December 20, 2023, 06:01:06 PM
Not sure what the deal is, since the first section of the Troy bypass is in the 2023–26 STIP (https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/programdevelopment/2023-2026-stip-draft/Tennessee%20STIP%202023-2026%20Final_R%205-19-23.pdf) (page 81) with construction programmed for FY2025, and there's no proposed amendment to remove it from the STIP.

The 10-year plan devotes $127.7M to I-69 in Obion County. The S Fulton interchange is a $60M project in the STIP, so there is apparently $68M of funding remaining for other work on I-69 in the county, according to the 10-year plan. Not quite the $90M estimated for the Troy bypass segment in the STIP, but not nothing, either.

I noticed that the proposed segment would be more of a half bypass of Troy with no apparent useful connections, and my first thought was that it would get built in some fashion and sit there unused for 10 years until the remainder was completed...not unlike the Union City bypass to the north.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Rothman on December 20, 2023, 10:36:51 PM
It's in FFY 25?  Lots and lots of time to remove it from the STIP before then.

The real question is if it is programmed as an active project by the DOT...(i.e., the DOT should have a database of all projects, not just the federally-funded/significant state-funded projects required to be on the STIP).
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on December 29, 2023, 11:40:08 AM
Apple Maps is showing the Southbound lanes of the Union City bypass as open and labeled as I-69.  The Northbound lanes are marked with a dark red dashed line.


Update:  Apple Maps has a road closed icon at the US 51 - I-69/TN 690 interchange South of Union City saying road closed until Jan 8, 2024
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on January 02, 2024, 07:00:03 AM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on December 29, 2023, 11:40:08 AM
Apple Maps is showing the Southbound lanes of the Union City bypass as open and labeled as I-69.  The Northbound lanes are marked with a dark red dashed line.


Update:  Apple Maps has a road closed icon at the US 51 - I-69/TN 690 interchange South of Union City saying road closed until Jan 8, 2024

In the several days since I posted the above I have seen no other articles about the bypass.  So I can only assume someone at Apple Maps jumped the gun.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on January 08, 2024, 12:55:12 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on January 02, 2024, 07:00:03 AM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on December 29, 2023, 11:40:08 AM
Apple Maps is showing the Southbound lanes of the Union City bypass as open and labeled as I-69.  The Northbound lanes are marked with a dark red dashed line.


Update:  Apple Maps has a road closed icon at the US 51 - I-69/TN 690 interchange South of Union City saying road closed until Jan 8, 2024

In the several days since I posted the above I have seen no other articles about the bypass.  So I can only assume someone at Apple Maps jumped the gun.
I would think if the Union City Bypass were to open, it would be all over the news. I haven't seen anything regarding an opening or even a ribbon-cutting ceremony.  So it remains a mystery as to when the bypass will actually open.  Maybe they might wait until they finish the bypass around Troy and open it all at once.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Rick Powell on January 08, 2024, 03:07:01 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on December 29, 2023, 11:40:08 AM

Update:  Apple Maps has a road closed icon at the US 51 - I-69/TN 690 interchange South of Union City saying road closed until Jan 8, 2024

Looking at my iPhone today, I see I-69 shields on the bypass and no road closed icons or dashed lines. Maybe the January 8 date kicked in, whether it represents a true road opening or not.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: triplemultiplex on January 09, 2024, 10:43:16 AM
Someone born the day they started construction will be able to legally drive it by the time it opens at this rate.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on January 09, 2024, 06:24:00 PM
I wonder if the proposal to extend Interstate 69 from Indianapolis to the Mexican border (via Brownsville for 69E and Laredo for 69W) was too big of an undertaking for the six states the 69 extension is going through. While Texas has been gung-ho about building its segments, and Kentucky had it easy since most of its portion of 69 follows pre-existing parkways. As for the other three states, it's still completely unknown whether they will complete their portions of Interstate 69. None of Louisiana's segments of 69 have been constructed, the only segment of 69 in Arkansas that exists is the two-lane Bypass 278 around Monticello (and the future eastern extension to AR 293 and US 65). Only the northern-most 23.39 miles of Mississippi's has been completed, with the rest of the route within the state of Mississippi in doubt. In Tennessee, Interstate 69 is unsigned through Memphis, the segment between Memphis and Dyersburg is dormant, the Union City bypass is taking forever to construct, and the construction of the Troy Bypass to connect with the existing US 51 freeway is up-in-the-air. Like the canceled Interstate 66 proposal and the Interstate 73/74 proposal, the Interstate 69 extension may have been a bridge way too far.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Bobby5280 on January 09, 2024, 07:05:55 PM
I think a potential surge of near-shoring activity (manufacturers moving production from overseas locations like China to closer foreign locations like Mexico) could give I-69 efforts a boost. But I think Texas would draw the greatest benefit for new highway construction related to that economic activity. In that scenario it's possible neighboring states might see more commercial traffic on major corridors as well.

As for I-69 in Tennessee, I don't know. The proposed route thru LA, AR and MS is very indirect (the same goes for the route in TN and KY). I think the most likely outcome is I-369 gets completed to Texarkana and forces more upgrades along the I-30 and I-40 corridors leading up to the Mississippi River. But then we have the situation with the two bridges in Memphis. Those are enormous projects on their own. I can just imagine the TN state government slow-walking the build-out of its portion of I-69 until those bridge issues are addressed.

The original intentions behind the I-69 extension to the Mexican border were good. The follow through on it has been poorly designed. The route's path has probably been guided more by politics than standards of traffic engineering. What we'll probably get as an end result is new Interstates in Texas that are fairly functional. A bunch of the other portions may only ever see small segments completed. I think there is even an outside chance the I-69 routes in Texas could potentially be re-numbered to something else.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: vdeane on January 09, 2024, 08:58:38 PM
I don't see additional movement in the middle states regardless of what happens in Mexico unless we move back to the direct federal funding/planning that we had to build the interstate system in the first place.  If those states are told "we'll pay the vast majority of the cost to build I-69 and you can't use that money for anything else", we'll probably see it done eventually.  If instead they're told "this money can be used to build I-69, or it could be used for something of more local benefit", as happens today, then it won't.

As for renumbering the Texas routes, I don't see that happening.  Far more likely there would be a permanent gap like with I-74.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Strider on January 10, 2024, 05:46:14 PM
There are lack of funds in AR, MS and some areas in TN where I-69 will go through (except for completed segments). Nothing is cheaper anymore. It may be after our lifetime that I-69 is fully built, or it may never be as there can be gaps just like we have seen with I-74 in my state. Or it may never be connected, leaving two separate segments of I-69 just like I-74, I-76, I-84, I-86, and I-88.

I think I-369 probably will be finished first, and the temporary I-69 could follow I-369, I-30, I-40, I-55 and I-155 to Dyserburg, TN and going forward from there.

At least Kentucky and Indiana will have their sections of I-69 completed sooner.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Bobby5280 on January 10, 2024, 07:07:50 PM
Since Texas can prioritize the different I-69 projects within the state it seems very likely they'll complete I-69 from Houston to Tenaha and I-369 from Tenaha up to Texarkana before they do anything with the short leg going to the Louisiana border. The I-69 route in East Texas may simply just turn into I-369 at a certain point in Tenaha.

Quote from: vdeaneIf those states are told "we'll pay the vast majority of the cost to build I-69 and you can't use that money for anything else", we'll probably see it done eventually.

That's just what the feds should have been doing all along. Giving a state money specifically for a section of Interstate only to let them blow it other things is just stupid.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: vdeane on January 10, 2024, 09:19:45 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on January 10, 2024, 07:07:50 PM
Quote from: vdeaneIf those states are told "we'll pay the vast majority of the cost to build I-69 and you can't use that money for anything else", we'll probably see it done eventually.

That's just what the feds should have been doing all along. Giving a state money specifically for a section of Interstate only to let them blow it other things is just stupid.
That's the thing - states don't get money for specific sections of interstate anymore.  Federal funding (outside of competitive grants) comes down in specific pots with specific dollar amounts attached that can be used statewide but have varying rules for how they can be spent (such as needing to be on the NHS, or to improve documented safety issues, etc.).  The newer interstates are basically unfunded mandates with neither deadlines nor penalties attached, so the states basically do whatever with them.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: civilengineeringnerd on January 25, 2024, 12:30:04 AM
perhaps a better option is to toll I-69 from michigan to texas, have the private sector build 95% of it from design to completion, and have the funds from the feds and states earmarked for I-69s completion.
even have it setup where its potentially better designed as well, with a better routing. i for once perfer it if there was a I-469 from I-69 going around union city to I-40 by parkers crossroads, so it creates a truck bypass when theres accidents and such on I-40 and it gives truckers and travelers a chance to stop at various places along the route.
i know its a bit of a pipe dream at this point but i have to agree with what others have said, and see I-69 is nothing short of a mismanaged mess.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on January 25, 2024, 09:26:20 AM
Quote from: civilengineeringnerd on January 25, 2024, 12:30:04 AM
perhaps a better option is to toll I-69 from michigan to texas, have the private sector build 95% of it from design to completion, and have the funds from the feds and states earmarked for I-69s completion.
even have it setup where its potentially better designed as well, with a better routing. i for once perfer it if there was a I-469 from I-69 going around union city to I-40 by parkers crossroads, so it creates a truck bypass when theres accidents and such on I-40 and it gives truckers and travelers a chance to stop at various places along the route.
i know its a bit of a pipe dream at this point but i have to agree with what others have said, and see I-69 is nothing short of a mismanaged mess.
This is what happens when Congress imposes "unfunded mandates" on states like I-69. Some states like Texas, Kentucky, and Indiana figure out how to pay for it and get it built, while the other states will do nothing until Congress earmarks the funding for their sections.  Ironically, Indiana and Texas both considered building their portions of I-69 as toll roads, but residents of both states were roundly opposed to tolling. Additionally, Tennessee and Mississippi put forth legislation about 10-15 years ago to allow I-69 to be tolled in those states. Again, the idea to toll I-69 there gained no traction due to the lack of public support, and more importantly, those stretches likely would not generate enough traffic---and revenue--to make them financially viable. Even the new Ohio River Bridge between Henderson, KY and Evansville, IN that will be tolled, toll revenue is expected to cover only about one-third to one-half of the bridge's construction, with the remainder of the funding coming from the feds, and the states of Kentucky and Indiana.   
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Rothman on January 25, 2024, 09:31:12 AM
I-69 is hardly a mandate.  The States don't have to build it.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on January 25, 2024, 10:46:17 AM
Of course, they don't have to build it. It's just that I think it would look awkward if Interstate 69 has permanent gaps within the states of Tennessee, Mississippi, Arkansas, and Louisiana. I hope Interstate 69 is eventually fully continuous from Laredo, TX (69W), Pharr, TX (69C), and Brownsville TX (69E), all the way to Port Huron, MI, even if it takes 100 years to build out the corridor.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: jlam on January 25, 2024, 11:12:44 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 25, 2024, 10:46:17 AM
Of course, they don't have to build it. It's just that I think it would look awkward if Interstate 69 has permanent gaps within the states of Tennessee, Mississippi, Arkansas, and Louisiana. I hope Interstate 69 is eventually fully continuous from Laredo, TX (69W), Pharr, TX (69C), and Brownsville TX (69E), all the way to Port Huron, MI, even if it takes 100 years to build out the corridor.
They may never build it. Going from Laredo to Memphis, going I-35 -> I-30 -> I-40 is almost faster than the proposed I-69. Its functionality is near peak with two segments: The I-69 trident in TX to maybe Shreveport, and the Memphis to Port Huron segment. Construction in southern Arkansas and western Mississippi is pushing it. Of course, this segment still has traffic, but not enough to necessitate a full-out freeway.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on January 25, 2024, 01:10:30 PM
It's worth mentioning that the idea of tolling the Ohio River bridge on I-69 is now off the table. Kentucky's governor has said he is opposed to tolls on that bridge. The current highway plan now before the Kentucky legislature makes no mention of toll revenues.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on January 25, 2024, 01:36:06 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 25, 2024, 01:10:30 PM
It's worth mentioning that the idea of tolling the Ohio River bridge on I-69 is now off the table. Kentucky's governor has said he is opposed to tolls on that bridge. The current highway plan now before the Kentucky legislature makes no mention of toll revenues.
Okay, well that's new. All the way up to when the Final EIS and ROD were signed in late 2022, everyone was saying there wouldn't be enough money to build the Ohio River Bridge without tolls. So when did they decide to take tolls off the table, and find the money elsewhere? I haven't seen anything to that effect.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Rick Powell on January 25, 2024, 01:52:58 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 25, 2024, 01:10:30 PM
It's worth mentioning that the idea of tolling the Ohio River bridge on I-69 is now off the table. Kentucky's governor has said he is opposed to tolls on that bridge. The current highway plan now before the Kentucky legislature makes no mention of toll revenues.

The FAQ they have up at https://i69ohiorivercrossing.com/faqs/ has an opposite message, unless it is outdated.

"Will I-69 ORX be tolled?
The new I-69 bridge will be tolled. After receiving public comments and developing a financial plan for the project, INDOT and KYTC determined the US 41 bridge that will remain in use after construction of the I-69 river crossing will not be tolled."

In addition, the latest article I found from August 2023 had ORX spokesperson Mindy Peterson stating "We do know that tolling is part of that funding equation as well. So, when we do build that new river crossing...we will have the interstate crossing [that] will be tolled; that's still part of the funding equation as well. Both of the states have identified a schedule that works for their funding resources." https://www.insideindianabusiness.com/articles/federal-funding-could-speed-up-ohio-river-crossing-timeline
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: MikieTimT on January 25, 2024, 01:53:12 PM
Quote from: jlam on January 25, 2024, 11:12:44 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 25, 2024, 10:46:17 AM
Of course, they don't have to build it. It's just that I think it would look awkward if Interstate 69 has permanent gaps within the states of Tennessee, Mississippi, Arkansas, and Louisiana. I hope Interstate 69 is eventually fully continuous from Laredo, TX (69W), Pharr, TX (69C), and Brownsville TX (69E), all the way to Port Huron, MI, even if it takes 100 years to build out the corridor.
They may never build it. Going from Laredo to Memphis, going I-35 -> I-30 -> I-40 is almost faster than the proposed I-69. Its functionality is near peak with two segments: The I-69 trident in TX to maybe Shreveport, and the Memphis to Port Huron segment. Construction in southern Arkansas and western Mississippi is pushing it. Of course, this segment still has traffic, but not enough to necessitate a full-out freeway.

If I-30 from Texarkana to Little Rock and I-40 from Little Rock to W. Memphis were upgraded from 2x2 to 4x4, then I'd agree with your assessment as that's how much pavement it would take to replace I-69 in Louisiana, Arkansas, and south Mississippi.  But since there's no plans to fund even the full 3x3 upgrade of both segments in Arkansas within the next 25 years to handle the already truck-choked facilities, then all I can figure is that we have folks here who comment without having ever driven what they're recommending as backup plans.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: seicer on January 25, 2024, 04:00:15 PM
Quote from: Rick Powell on January 25, 2024, 01:52:58 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 25, 2024, 01:10:30 PM
It's worth mentioning that the idea of tolling the Ohio River bridge on I-69 is now off the table. Kentucky's governor has said he is opposed to tolls on that bridge. The current highway plan now before the Kentucky legislature makes no mention of toll revenues.

The FAQ they have up at https://i69ohiorivercrossing.com/faqs/ has an opposite message, unless it is outdated.

"Will I-69 ORX be tolled?
The new I-69 bridge will be tolled. After receiving public comments and developing a financial plan for the project, INDOT and KYTC determined the US 41 bridge that will remain in use after construction of the I-69 river crossing will not be tolled."

In addition, the latest article I found from August 2023 had ORX spokesperson Mindy Peterson stating "We do know that tolling is part of that funding equation as well. So, when we do build that new river crossing...we will have the interstate crossing [that] will be tolled; that's still part of the funding equation as well. Both of the states have identified a schedule that works for their funding resources." https://www.insideindianabusiness.com/articles/federal-funding-could-speed-up-ohio-river-crossing-timeline

I can't find any mention of a change in tolling status for the I-69 ORX project, either. The latest article mentions that even with increased federal funding, tolling of the bridge is still part of the funding package: https://www.insideindianabusiness.com/articles/federal-funding-could-speed-up-ohio-river-crossing-timeline
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on January 25, 2024, 11:46:42 PM
Quote from: jlam on January 25, 2024, 11:12:44 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 25, 2024, 10:46:17 AM
Of course, they don't have to build it. It's just that I think it would look awkward if Interstate 69 has permanent gaps within the states of Tennessee, Mississippi, Arkansas, and Louisiana. I hope Interstate 69 is eventually fully continuous from Laredo, TX (69W), Pharr, TX (69C), and Brownsville TX (69E), all the way to Port Huron, MI, even if it takes 100 years to build out the corridor.
They may never build it. Going from Laredo to Memphis, going I-35 -> I-30 -> I-40 is almost faster than the proposed I-69. Its functionality is near peak with two segments: The I-69 trident in TX to maybe Shreveport, and the Memphis to Port Huron segment. Construction in southern Arkansas and western Mississippi is pushing it. Of course, this segment still has traffic, but not enough to necessitate a full-out freeway.

Don't forget that this highway is not just about timing, its also about capacity and resiliency.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Rothman on January 26, 2024, 08:15:59 AM
Quote from: edwaleni on January 25, 2024, 11:46:42 PM
Quote from: jlam on January 25, 2024, 11:12:44 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 25, 2024, 10:46:17 AM
Of course, they don't have to build it. It's just that I think it would look awkward if Interstate 69 has permanent gaps within the states of Tennessee, Mississippi, Arkansas, and Louisiana. I hope Interstate 69 is eventually fully continuous from Laredo, TX (69W), Pharr, TX (69C), and Brownsville TX (69E), all the way to Port Huron, MI, even if it takes 100 years to build out the corridor.
They may never build it. Going from Laredo to Memphis, going I-35 -> I-30 -> I-40 is almost faster than the proposed I-69. Its functionality is near peak with two segments: The I-69 trident in TX to maybe Shreveport, and the Memphis to Port Huron segment. Construction in southern Arkansas and western Mississippi is pushing it. Of course, this segment still has traffic, but not enough to necessitate a full-out freeway.

Don't forget that this highway is not just about timing, its also about capacity and resiliency.
Heh.  The current route may be faster from the get-go, so it doesn't sound like there's a significant enough problem to rationalize the longer "detour" along I-69.

In terms of resiliency, just building a redundant route for redundancy's sake when DOTs are struggling to maintain conditions otherwise is a questionable use of funding.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sprjus4 on January 26, 2024, 10:24:37 AM
Quote from: Rothman on January 26, 2024, 08:15:59 AM
Heh.  The current route may be faster from the get-go, so it doesn't sound like there's a significant enough problem to rationalize the longer "detour" along I-69.
Not sure if you've ever driven on I-30 or especially I-40 between Little Rock or Memphis, but it suffers the problem of significant truck congestion. Both routes warrant at minimum 6 lanes, and are only 4 lanes.

A complete I-69 route would allow traffic from southeastern Texas heading north to bypass the I-30 and I-40 corridor, and avoid Texarkana, Little Rock, and Memphis (if going to I-40 East) entirely. Being someone who's come up this way before, it undoubtly would be my choice over I-30 and I-40 due to similar distance and significantly less traffic.

Additionally, the I-69 routing will not be any longer distance than I-30 / I-40 is today, so that point is moot.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Bobby5280 on January 26, 2024, 12:02:14 PM
It will be decades before I-69 is ever finished across Southern Arkansas and NW Mississippi. The Great River Bridge is a giant roadblock. The Feds will have to step in and provide pretty much all the funding for that bridge as well as all of the portion in Mississippi for to ever get completed.

Meanwhile: the segment of I-40 between Little Rock and Memphis is in much more immediate, urgent need of capacity upgrades -going from 2x2 lanes to 3x3 or even 4x4 in some places. They need to be doing that NOW. Not decades later.

Texas is in a better position to complete its sections of I-69 and I-369 long before the segments of I-69 are built in Louisiana and Southern Arkansas. That will translate into more traffic loading onto I-30 and I-40 in Arkansas. It will also mean a greater burden to the Mississippi River bridges in Memphis (especially the I-40 bridge).

Anyway, I-40 in Eastern Arkansas has to be a top priority for that state's DOT issues. That's going to be followed by capacity upgrade needs on I-30. Currently I-30 is 3x3 from Little Rock down to Exit 117 in Benton. After that it drops to 2x2 lanes. Construction work extends down to the US-70 interchange for Hot Springs. When TX DOT builds I-369 up to Texarkana it will increase the need to make I-30 at least 3x3 lanes for its entire length in Arkansas.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on January 26, 2024, 12:52:31 PM
All I know is that I was told in a meeting earlier this week that the governor is opposed to tolls on the bridge and a reporter had noticed that tolls are not mentioned as a source of funding in the newest highway plan.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sprjus4 on January 26, 2024, 01:45:07 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on January 26, 2024, 12:02:14 PM
It will be decades before I-69 is ever finished across Southern Arkansas and NW Mississippi. The Great River Bridge is a giant roadblock. The Feds will have to step in and provide pretty much all the funding for that bridge as well as all of the portion in Mississippi for to ever get completed.

Meanwhile: the segment of I-40 between Little Rock and Memphis is in much more immediate, urgent need of capacity upgrades -going from 2x2 lanes to 3x3 or even 4x4 in some places. They need to be doing that NOW. Not decades later.

Texas is in a better position to complete its sections of I-69 and I-369 long before the segments of I-69 are built in Louisiana and Southern Arkansas. That will translate into more traffic loading onto I-30 and I-40 in Arkansas. It will also mean a greater burden to the Mississippi River bridges in Memphis (especially the I-40 bridge).

Anyway, I-40 in Eastern Arkansas has to be a top priority for that state's DOT issues. That's going to be followed by capacity upgrade needs on I-30. Currently I-30 is 3x3 from Little Rock down to Exit 117 in Benton. After that it drops to 2x2 lanes. Construction work extends down to the US-70 interchange for Hot Springs. When TX DOT builds I-369 up to Texarkana it will increase the need to make I-30 at least 3x3 lanes for its entire length in Arkansas.
Texas would be in the better position, but it is important to note that outside of a couple of bypass projects, they have made virtually no progress north of Cleveland. It will be at least two more decades, if not longer, before those segments are complete. I-369 hasn't seen any construction at all either.

All of their priority seems to be on I-69 south of Houston, and I-69E - along with some on I-69C.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on January 28, 2024, 11:56:18 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on January 26, 2024, 01:45:07 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on January 26, 2024, 12:02:14 PM
It will be decades before I-69 is ever finished across Southern Arkansas and NW Mississippi. The Great River Bridge is a giant roadblock. The Feds will have to step in and provide pretty much all the funding for that bridge as well as all of the portion in Mississippi for to ever get completed.

Meanwhile: the segment of I-40 between Little Rock and Memphis is in much more immediate, urgent need of capacity upgrades -going from 2x2 lanes to 3x3 or even 4x4 in some places. They need to be doing that NOW. Not decades later.

Texas is in a better position to complete its sections of I-69 and I-369 long before the segments of I-69 are built in Louisiana and Southern Arkansas. That will translate into more traffic loading onto I-30 and I-40 in Arkansas. It will also mean a greater burden to the Mississippi River bridges in Memphis (especially the I-40 bridge).

Anyway, I-40 in Eastern Arkansas has to be a top priority for that state's DOT issues. That's going to be followed by capacity upgrade needs on I-30. Currently I-30 is 3x3 from Little Rock down to Exit 117 in Benton. After that it drops to 2x2 lanes. Construction work extends down to the US-70 interchange for Hot Springs. When TX DOT builds I-369 up to Texarkana it will increase the need to make I-30 at least 3x3 lanes for its entire length in Arkansas.
Texas would be in the better position, but it is important to note that outside of a couple of bypass projects, they have made virtually no progress north of Cleveland. It will be at least two more decades, if not longer, before those segments are complete. I-369 hasn't seen any construction at all either.

All of their priority seems to be on I-69 south of Houston, and I-69E - along with some on I-69C.
They've been prioritizing I-69E because of a law that allowed the existing freeways in the Lower RGV to be added to the interstate highway system had to be connected to the rest of the interstate highway system within 25 years of their designation. so the big push right now is to get US-77 upgraded to interstate standards from Raymondville to I-37 to meet that deadline.

Eventually, you'll see more activity from Cleveland north to Texarkana, but from what I'm seeing it looks like TxDOT is prioritizing the completion of bypasses around the towns that US-59 goes through to first enable nonstop travel from Houston to Texarkana. Once that's done, it looks like then they'll go back and finish upgrading the rural sections to interstate standards.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: civilengineeringnerd on January 28, 2024, 02:01:46 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on January 25, 2024, 11:46:42 PM
Quote from: jlam on January 25, 2024, 11:12:44 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 25, 2024, 10:46:17 AM
Of course, they don't have to build it. It's just that I think it would look awkward if Interstate 69 has permanent gaps within the states of Tennessee, Mississippi, Arkansas, and Louisiana. I hope Interstate 69 is eventually fully continuous from Laredo, TX (69W), Pharr, TX (69C), and Brownsville TX (69E), all the way to Port Huron, MI, even if it takes 100 years to build out the corridor.
They may never build it. Going from Laredo to Memphis, going I-35 -> I-30 -> I-40 is almost faster than the proposed I-69. Its functionality is near peak with two segments: The I-69 trident in TX to maybe Shreveport, and the Memphis to Port Huron segment. Construction in southern Arkansas and western Mississippi is pushing it. Of course, this segment still has traffic, but not enough to necessitate a full-out freeway.

Don't forget that this highway is not just about timing, its also about capacity and resiliency.
even if it was about that, there should be at minimum 3 new spans across the mississippi river that are earthquake proof, and tornado proof cable stayed bridges or better bridges.
the reason being is because of the region it goes through. the new madrid fault zone to the north, combined with the older north american plate, is gonna be a big factor, and there should be some level of proofing against liquefaction to some degree.
on top of it, tornadoes during the fall, winter and spring months are also common along the mississippi river valley. don't think for a second thats not gonna be a problem.
rebuilding both bridges for I-40 and I-55 to have a 4x4 configuration, and to be earthquake and tornado proof cable stayed bridges, and having a new I-69 cable stayed bridge and maybe even a I-269 bridge across the mississippi should all be in the plans.
but i don't think its about resiliency or capacity, as I-69 was part of the trade agreement between canada and mexico. im not gonna go too much into detail, but thats basically what it boils down to.
why did our government not at least fund the interstate using the tariffs tho, is beyond me. :rolleyes:
in any case, you won't see a I-69 bridge span for a long time, and probably never will. by the time any plans come to the table on that, we'd have flying cars and going to space, or even better, colonizing mars and the moon.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Bobby5280 on January 28, 2024, 04:56:50 PM
Quote from: sprjus4Texas would be in the better position, but it is important to note that outside of a couple of bypass projects, they have made virtually no progress north of Cleveland.

You have bypass projects for Corrigan and Diboll well under way. Then there is ongoing work in Lufkin and Nacogdoches with their existing bypasses as well as some work outside of those towns. Some miscellaneous "spot upgrades" have been taking place at a few intersections along the way.

While actual construction hasn't started, plans are well underway for the I-369 bypass of Marshall. IIRC, an alignment has been chosen for I-369 going South from Texarkana (upgrading along the existing US-59 alignment).

While that amount of progress on I-69 between Houston and Texarkana may not seem like much it still adds up to far more than what has taken place in either Louisiana or Arkansas. TX DOT may be putting a higher priority on I-69 between Houston and Corpus Christi. But Texas is a big state with an immense population (and tax base). And some of the upgrades needed on US-59 North of Houston won't be difficult to complete.

Even if it takes TX DOT another 20 or more years to complete I-69 and I-369 North of Houston, I still think those highways will be built many years before the I-69 segments in Arkansas and Louisiana. In the meantime Arkansas will have to deal with I-40 East of Little Rock to Memphis.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: MikieTimT on January 29, 2024, 09:39:34 AM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on January 28, 2024, 04:56:50 PM
Quote from: sprjus4Texas would be in the better position, but it is important to note that outside of a couple of bypass projects, they have made virtually no progress north of Cleveland.

You have bypass projects for Corrigan and Diboll well under way. Then there is ongoing work in Lufkin and Nacogdoches with their existing bypasses as well as some work outside of those towns. Some miscellaneous "spot upgrades" have been taking place at a few intersections along the way.

While actual construction hasn't started, plans are well underway for the I-369 bypass of Marshall. IIRC, an alignment has been chosen for I-369 going South from Texarkana (upgrading along the existing US-59 alignment).

While that amount of progress on I-69 between Houston and Texarkana may not seem like much it still adds up to far more than what has taken place in either Louisiana or Arkansas. TX DOT may be putting a higher priority on I-69 between Houston and Corpus Christi. But Texas is a big state with an immense population (and tax base). And some of the upgrades needed on US-59 North of Houston won't be difficult to complete.

Even if it takes TX DOT another 20 or more years to complete I-69 and I-369 North of Houston, I still think those highways will be built many years before the I-69 segments in Arkansas and Louisiana. In the meantime Arkansas will have to deal with I-40 East of Little Rock to Memphis.

AR already has 2 6-lane upgrades for eastern I-40 in the STIP at the Little Rock and W. Memphis ends, so it's starting to roll.  I figure they'll do the entire remaining 100 mile (Exits/MM 165-265) facility piecemeal, working their way towards the middle as tax revenue allows unless earmarks expedite the process.  I-30 currently doesn't have anything else in the works in SW AR, but I'd bet on more 6 laning progressively SW from US-70 where they're currently upgrading to 6 lane.  I figure the next segment will be to US-270, where they'll be done for a bit until they can swing a 6 lane upgrade of the Ouachita River bridge.  Texarkana is likely not to need a 6 lane upgrade for a while as there is a good beltway around the Arkansas side already to I-30 for US-59 traffic.  I-57 will likely be completed to Sikeston before Texas dumps enough traffic onto I-30 with I-369, so that takes some of the pressure off eastern I-40 as well for anything that was routed on I-40 Little Rock<-->I-55 Sikeston.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on January 29, 2024, 01:40:55 PM
Regarding the question of tolls on the I-69 Kentucky bridge, I refer you to this video, start at 1:11:30.

https://www.youtube.com/live/3CTtO5xRk1w?si=Q6GzWL-la17Hs5-W&t=4294

Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: rickmastfan67 on January 29, 2024, 08:08:39 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 29, 2024, 01:40:55 PM
Regarding the question of tolls on the I-69 Kentucky bridge, I refer you to this video, start at 1:11:30.

https://www.youtube.com/live/3CTtO5xRk1w?si=Q6GzWL-la17Hs5-W&t=4294



That's because it's a 'live' link.  Our parser doesn't support those, thus it just shows it as a URL.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on January 30, 2024, 06:25:14 PM
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on January 29, 2024, 08:08:39 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 29, 2024, 01:40:55 PM
Regarding the question of tolls on the I-69 Kentucky bridge, I refer you to this video, start at 1:11:30.

https://www.youtube.com/live/3CTtO5xRk1w?si=Q6GzWL-la17Hs5-W&t=4294



That's because it's a 'live' link.  Our parser doesn't support those, thus it just shows it as a URL.

Yes, I tried to embed the link in the "Youtube" plug-in (from the second row of formatting options above) and that's what I got. Clicking on the link I posted should work.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on January 31, 2024, 07:56:00 AM
Getting back to I-69 in Tennessee, Apple Maps still has the Union City bypass marked as I-69, and listed as closed, but due to open tomorrow at 12:55am CST.

Still no news items about the bypass opening that I can find.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Road Warrior on February 06, 2024, 11:02:18 AM
Honestly, at this point, I-369 is probably just going to become "I-69" and the LA, AR, and MS sections will never get built. I-69 will just be co-signed along I-30 and I-40 until it gets to the Memphis area. After that, its just a matter of routing. They might just build a new connection between I-40 and I-55 west of West Memphis, make I-69 co-signed with I-55 till about Steele, AR, then have 1-69 break away and travel a new route till it reaches I-155 west of the bridge, eliminating the need for a new interstate between Memphis and Dyersburg.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: codyg1985 on February 06, 2024, 11:15:10 AM
Quote from: The Road Warrior on February 06, 2024, 11:02:18 AM
Honestly, at this point, I-369 is probably just going to become "I-69" and the LA, AR, and MS sections will never get built. I-69 will just be co-signed along I-30 and I-40 until it gets to the Memphis area. After that, its just a matter of routing. They might just build a new connection between I-40 and I-55 west of West Memphis, make I-69 co-signed with I-55 till about Steele, AR, then have 1-69 break away and travel a new route till it reaches I-155 west of the bridge, eliminating the need for a new interstate between Memphis and Dyersburg.

I agree to a point; I don't think I-69 will be co-signed with any other interstate; there will just be a gap in it.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sprjus4 on February 06, 2024, 11:51:26 AM
Quote from: The Road Warrior on February 06, 2024, 11:02:18 AM
Honestly, at this point, I-369 is probably just going to become "I-69" and the LA, AR, and MS sections will never get built. I-69 will just be co-signed along I-30 and I-40 until it gets to the Memphis area. After that, its just a matter of routing. They might just build a new connection between I-40 and I-55 west of West Memphis, make I-69 co-signed with I-55 till about Steele, AR, then have 1-69 break away and travel a new route till it reaches I-155 west of the bridge, eliminating the need for a new interstate between Memphis and Dyersburg.
Assuming Texas I-369 / I-69 is even built north of Houston. They haven't made much of any progress either, outside of a couple bypass projects. Still long segments of arterial highway, and even undivided 4 lane "poor boy" as you get more north on US-59.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: MikieTimT on February 06, 2024, 03:06:01 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on February 06, 2024, 11:51:26 AM
Assuming Texas I-369 / I-69 is even built north of Houston. They haven't made much of any progress either, outside of a couple bypass projects. Still long segments of arterial highway, and even undivided 4 lane "poor boy" as you get more north on US-59.

It'll get built, just not before south of Houston.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: MikieTimT on February 06, 2024, 03:08:31 PM
Quote from: codyg1985 on February 06, 2024, 11:15:10 AM
Quote from: The Road Warrior on February 06, 2024, 11:02:18 AM
Honestly, at this point, I-369 is probably just going to become "I-69" and the LA, AR, and MS sections will never get built. I-69 will just be co-signed along I-30 and I-40 until it gets to the Memphis area. After that, its just a matter of routing. They might just build a new connection between I-40 and I-55 west of West Memphis, make I-69 co-signed with I-55 till about Steele, AR, then have 1-69 break away and travel a new route till it reaches I-155 west of the bridge, eliminating the need for a new interstate between Memphis and Dyersburg.

I agree to a point; I don't think I-69 will be co-signed with any other interstate; there will just be a gap in it.

If the traffic is shoehorned onto I-30/I-40, it NEEDS to have the concurrency signed so that the impetus to add enough lanes to handle additional traffic is obvious, even if it's a 90/10 fed/state split that makes it happen.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: wdcrft63 on February 06, 2024, 07:18:04 PM
Interesting discussion here but I'd really like to know, is the Union City Bypass open or not??
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: ilpt4u on February 06, 2024, 11:53:04 PM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on February 06, 2024, 07:18:04 PM
Interesting discussion here but I'd really like to know, is the Union City Bypass open or not??
Not sure, but local Weather forcaster maps on local news now shows the Union City Bypass marked as an Interstate, all by its lonesome, in northwestern TN
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Strider on February 06, 2024, 11:56:58 PM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on February 06, 2024, 07:18:04 PM
Interesting discussion here but I'd really like to know, is the Union City Bypass open or not??

Bing Maps show it open and complete, designed as I-69. OpenStreetMap and Google Maps doesn't show it as open. I guess someone will have to drive there and find out. I have not found or heard of anything about it being open on news.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: abqtraveler on February 07, 2024, 08:06:40 AM
Quote from: Strider on February 06, 2024, 11:56:58 PM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on February 06, 2024, 07:18:04 PM
Interesting discussion here but I'd really like to know, is the Union City Bypass open or not??

Bing Maps show it open and complete, designed as I-69. OpenStreetMap and Google Maps doesn't show it as open. I guess someone will have to drive there and find out. I have not found or heard of anything about it being open on news.
There's been nothing in the news about the Union City Bypass being opened, and nothing suggesting when it might open.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on February 07, 2024, 11:37:17 AM
The Union City Bypass should have been completed by now. Then again, I also think the Greenville, MS Bypass should have been completed by now as well.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sprjus4 on February 07, 2024, 02:24:18 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 07, 2024, 11:37:17 AM
The Union City Bypass should have been completed by now. Then again, I also think the Greenville, MS Bypass should have been completed by now as well.
Well, obviously.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Hot Rod Hootenanny on February 08, 2024, 01:31:32 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on February 07, 2024, 02:24:18 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 07, 2024, 11:37:17 AM
The Union City Bypass should have been completed by now. Then again, I also think the Greenville, MS Bypass should have been completed by now as well.
Well, obviously.

Any volunteers to drive out to Union City?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on February 08, 2024, 09:59:02 AM
Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on February 08, 2024, 01:31:32 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on February 07, 2024, 02:24:18 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 07, 2024, 11:37:17 AM
The Union City Bypass should have been completed by now. Then again, I also think the Greenville, MS Bypass should have been completed by now as well.
Well, obviously.

Any volunteers to drive out to Union City?

TDOT still says "early" 2024.

It was covered in snow a few weeks ago, and it might have been too cold to finish striping in the remaining spots. The south end at US-51 looks complete with barriers.

It's the north end between the Titan Tire rail spur to the US-51 ramps that seem to be taking the longest, which makes sense as it was the only part that wasnt graded to spec and sat fallow for 20 years.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on February 08, 2024, 10:42:45 AM
Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on February 08, 2024, 01:31:32 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on February 07, 2024, 02:24:18 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 07, 2024, 11:37:17 AM
The Union City Bypass should have been completed by now. Then again, I also think the Greenville, MS Bypass should have been completed by now as well.
Well, obviously.

Any volunteers to drive out to Union City?

Might make a good side trip/detour for anyone heading to the NOLA meet from the upper midwest.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: ilpt4u on February 08, 2024, 06:51:25 PM
Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on February 08, 2024, 01:31:32 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on February 07, 2024, 02:24:18 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 07, 2024, 11:37:17 AM
The Union City Bypass should have been completed by now. Then again, I also think the Greenville, MS Bypass should have been completed by now as well.
Well, obviously.
Any volunteers to drive out to Union City?
I could pull it off Saturday, maybe. Its a nice cozy drive down Rt 51 thru far Western KY...much more fun than taking I-24 to I-69/Purchase Pkwy
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Strider on February 08, 2024, 06:59:33 PM
Would be wonderful if ilpt4u and hbelkins pull it off and see how the bypass look. I'm surprised TDOT have not updated anything. You know just like I-69 in Indiana.. they update every time. I guess each state is different.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Hot Rod Hootenanny on February 08, 2024, 09:06:56 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 08, 2024, 10:42:45 AM
Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on February 08, 2024, 01:31:32 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on February 07, 2024, 02:24:18 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 07, 2024, 11:37:17 AM
The Union City Bypass should have been completed by now. Then again, I also think the Greenville, MS Bypass should have been completed by now as well.
Well, obviously.

Any volunteers to drive out to Union City?

Might make a good side trip/detour for anyone heading to the NOLA meet from the upper midwest.

I won't be going by there, to or fro, from NOLA this time around.
(I did my duty back in October, as shown on page 35)
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on February 09, 2024, 11:48:02 AM
Quote from: Strider on February 08, 2024, 06:59:33 PM
Would be wonderful if ilpt4u and hbelkins pull it off and see how the bypass look. I'm surprised TDOT have not updated anything. You know just like I-69 in Indiana.. they update every time. I guess each state is different.

Not me. I'm not going to New Orleans, and that area is the entire length of the state away from me. I have driven from my area to the Fulton area and back in one day before, but that was during peak daylight hours, not mid-February.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on February 09, 2024, 12:26:42 PM
Well, maybe someone else can check the bypass out, if they have the time to do so. Otherwise, we may have to wait until it truly opens, and/or until Google Maps (or any other map app) updates their sites to show the completed roadway.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on February 09, 2024, 10:43:58 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 09, 2024, 12:26:42 PM
Well, maybe someone else can check the bypass out, if they have the time to do so. Otherwise, we may have to wait until it truly opens, and/or until Google Maps (or any other map app) updates their sites to show the completed roadway.

Call the Obion County Highway Department:

Contact: Kevin Dunn
Phone: (731) 885-5960
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Henry on February 09, 2024, 11:15:32 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on February 08, 2024, 09:59:02 AM
Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on February 08, 2024, 01:31:32 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on February 07, 2024, 02:24:18 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 07, 2024, 11:37:17 AM
The Union City Bypass should have been completed by now. Then again, I also think the Greenville, MS Bypass should have been completed by now as well.
Well, obviously.

Any volunteers to drive out to Union City?

TDOT still says "early" 2024.

It was covered in snow a few weeks ago, and it might have been too cold to finish striping in the remaining spots. The south end at US-51 looks complete with barriers.

It's the north end between the Titan Tire rail spur to the US-51 ramps that seem to be taking the longest, which makes sense as it was the only part that wasnt graded to spec and sat fallow for 20 years.
I'll believe it when I see it. Google Maps still doesn't show the bypass as under construction, either.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: TNObion on February 11, 2024, 12:04:21 PM
Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on February 08, 2024, 01:31:32 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on February 07, 2024, 02:24:18 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 07, 2024, 11:37:17 AM
The Union City Bypass should have been completed by now. Then again, I also think the Greenville, MS Bypass should have been completed by now as well.
Well, obviously.

Any volunteers to drive out to Union City?


Union City resident here...I can confirm the bypass is still not open, for whatever reason. We had a press release back before Thanksgiving, when 51 northbound would reopen. At that time, they said the plan was to have both Northbound 51 and 69 open by Thanksgiving weekend. It has been silence since then, with no explanation. There have been rumors locally about the overpasses "sinking" and TDOT keeping it closed for that reason in the meantime. I have no idea if this is true or not or even what it means for that matter, so can't confirm that.  All lines are painted and the best I can tell all signage is up, it appears ready...but remains closed.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: ilpt4u on February 11, 2024, 02:13:23 PM
Wonder if any of the DMA's local news desks would try contacting TDOT for information. I would guess WPSD-NBC 6 Paducah would be the best chance, but KFVS-CBS 12 Cape Girardeau, KBSI-FOX 23 Cape Girardeau, and WSIL-ABC 3 Carterville, IL could possibly do a segment.

It is a weird TV DMA/market, fwiw, and there are only a couple NW TN counties in the otherwise mostly MO, IL, and KY market
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Rick Powell on February 11, 2024, 03:58:38 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on February 11, 2024, 02:13:23 PM
Wonder if any of the DMA's local news desks would try contacting TDOT for information. I would guess WPSD-NBC 6 Paducah would be the best chance, but KFVS-CBS 12 Cape Girardeau, KBSI-FOX 23 Cape Girardeau, and WSIL-ABC 3 Carterville, IL could possibly do a segment.

It is a weird TV DMA/market, fwiw, and there are only a couple NW TN counties in the otherwise mostly MO, IL, and KY market
WBBJ or WJKT in Jackson, TN too. They are closest outlet in TN, similar distance as Paducah to Union City, and closer than Carterville or Cape.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Hot Rod Hootenanny on February 12, 2024, 02:18:49 AM
Quote from: TNObion on February 11, 2024, 12:04:21 PM
Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on February 08, 2024, 01:31:32 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on February 07, 2024, 02:24:18 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 07, 2024, 11:37:17 AM
The Union City Bypass should have been completed by now. Then again, I also think the Greenville, MS Bypass should have been completed by now as well.
Well, obviously.

Any volunteers to drive out to Union City?


Union City resident here...I can confirm the bypass is still not open, for whatever reason. We had a press release back before Thanksgiving, when 51 northbound would reopen. At that time, they said the plan was to have both Northbound 51 and 69 open by Thanksgiving weekend. It has been silence since then, with no explanation. There have been rumors locally about the overpasses "sinking" and TDOT keeping it closed for that reason in the meantime. I have no idea if this is true or not or even what it means for that matter, so can't confirm that.  All lines are painted and the best I can tell all signage is up, it appears ready...but remains closed.

Thank you for the update
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on February 12, 2024, 10:44:45 AM
I finally checked in on things.

According to several authorities, they are trying to get a ribbon cutting coordinated with the Governor's office and several TN representatives.

He was touring the east side of the state this past week along with the state of the state which was on his calendar for sometime.

Since they are in legislative session (and so is the US Congress) they are trying to find a time slot where they can all be present and perform the "cut".





Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: hbelkins on February 12, 2024, 11:15:33 AM
Quote from: TNObion on February 11, 2024, 12:04:21 PM
Union City resident here...I can confirm the bypass is still not open, for whatever reason. We had a press release back before Thanksgiving, when 51 northbound would reopen. At that time, they said the plan was to have both Northbound 51 and 69 open by Thanksgiving weekend. It has been silence since then, with no explanation. There have been rumors locally about the overpasses "sinking" and TDOT keeping it closed for that reason in the meantime. I have no idea if this is true or not or even what it means for that matter, so can't confirm that.  All lines are painted and the best I can tell all signage is up, it appears ready...but remains closed.

The only thing I can think of relating to overpasses "sinking" would be the normal settling of bridge ends. It's especially bad here in eastern Kentucky. Within six months to a year after the opening of a new bridge, the ends will sink to the point where they need to be wedged up with either cold mix or hot asphalt to eliminate the teeth-jarring and tit-bouncing bump.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: bmeiser on February 12, 2024, 11:21:32 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 12, 2024, 11:15:33 AM
...to eliminate the teeth-jarring and tit-bouncing bump.

:-D Just about choked on an M&M reading that.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Chris on February 20, 2024, 10:13:50 AM
Future Interstate 69 in Union City Ready to Open

The Tennessee Department of Transportation (TDOT) is ready to open the mainline of SR 690 (future I-69) in Obion County on Wednesday, February 21. Crews will be there Wednesday morning to make the transition from the current roadway to the new roadway direction.

The section from west of SR 21 to south of SR 5 in Obion County has taken multiple projects over a decade and an investment of over $220 million.

The US 51 interchange with US 45 in Tennessee, stretching into Kentucky, is identified for funding in TDOT's 10-Year Project Plan, with construction scheduled in Fiscal Year 2028. Once completed, future I-69 in Tennessee will be connected to future I-69 in Kentucky.


Press release: https://www.tn.gov/tdot/news/2024/2/20/future-interstate-69-in-union-city-ready-to-open.html
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on February 20, 2024, 01:19:32 PM
It certainly took them long enough to complete it! It better not take as long to construct the Troy Bypass, whenever that happens.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on February 21, 2024, 06:22:15 AM
Not showing as open on Google Maps (of course).  However Google Maps update the satellite view of the Northern end of the bypass, is shows it completed and painted.  The middle section (which has been around the longest) still shows as mostly dirt and grass.  Go figure...

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.4640609,-89.0066771,2863m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu

Apple Maps has it showing as not opening until March 1st...

Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Rick Powell on February 21, 2024, 08:35:51 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 20, 2024, 01:19:32 PM
It certainly took them long enough to complete it! It better not take as long to construct the Troy Bypass, whenever that happens.
The latest funding plan shows half the Troy bypass being constructed (roughly the northern half) and apparently having to backtrack to/from US 51 at Troy to utilize it. Would you rather have a poorly-functioning bypass in place or have TDOT pause on the whole thing until they can build it as one piece?

It also appears that the South Fulton interchange/realignment is a higher priority than the Troy bypass at this time.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sprjus4 on February 21, 2024, 10:32:39 AM
Quote from: Rick Powell on February 21, 2024, 08:35:51 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 20, 2024, 01:19:32 PM
It certainly took them long enough to complete it! It better not take as long to construct the Troy Bypass, whenever that happens.
The latest funding plan shows half the Troy bypass being constructed (roughly the northern half) and apparently having to backtrack to/from US 51 at Troy to utilize it. Would you rather have a poorly-functioning bypass in place or have TDOT pause on the whole thing until they can build it as one piece?

It also appears that the South Fulton interchange/realignment is a higher priority than the Troy bypass at this time.
Look at the Shelby Bypass in North Carolina, I'd rather have part of it be built first just to get it laid out. Complete it as money allows. It doesn't have to function as the mainline I-69 or US-51 immediately if it causes a backtrack.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on February 21, 2024, 11:19:56 AM
The opening is now showing up as news. (Mostly rehashes of the news release)

https://www.radionwtn.com/2024/02/21/future-interstate-69-in-union-city-to-open-today/

https://www.paducahsun.com/news/state-route-690-part-of-future-i-69-in-tennessee-and-kentucky-opening-wednesday/article_3b8fbc4e-f967-5ff8-b67e-6587de17ec5b.html

Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on February 21, 2024, 11:22:27 AM


QuoteUnion City resident here...I can confirm the bypass is still not open, for whatever reason. We had a press release back before Thanksgiving, when 51 northbound would reopen. At that time, they said the plan was to have both Northbound 51 and 69 open by Thanksgiving weekend. It has been silence since then, with no explanation. There have been rumors locally about the overpasses "sinking" and TDOT keeping it closed for that reason in the meantime. I have no idea if this is true or not or even what it means for that matter, so can't confirm that.  All lines are painted and the best I can tell all signage is up, it appears ready...but remains closed.

With the reports of it opening today, do you feel like going for a drive?  :D
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Chris on February 21, 2024, 01:18:48 PM
OpenStreetMap and Wikipedia both have the exits numbered as 141 - 148. That's 7 miles. However if you measure the bypass on Google Earth it's over 10 miles and maybe closer to 11 miles with all the curves.

(https://i.ibb.co/fvDJZDV/Union-City.jpg)
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on February 21, 2024, 06:09:36 PM
Can someone utilize the TN 690 (future Interstate 69) freeway in the near future to confirm the new exit numbers (as well as if they are signposted)? Also, if the new exit numbers are accurate, I would also like to know if they accurately represent the distance from the Mississippi/Tennessee border (duplexed with Interstate 55), assuming Interstate 69 in Tennessee is ever completed as presently proposed. I would also like to see exit numbers installed on existing US 51 northeast of Interstate 155's eastern terminus.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: sprjus4 on February 21, 2024, 10:45:32 PM
https://www.wbbjtv.com/2024/02/21/state-route-690-opens-for-travelers-in-obion-county/

From the pictures in this article, it looks like there's no exit numbers.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: rickmastfan67 on February 22, 2024, 01:09:58 AM
Quote from: Chris on February 21, 2024, 01:18:48 PM
OpenStreetMap and Wikipedia both have the exits numbered as 141 - 148. That's 7 miles. However if you measure the bypass on Google Earth it's over 10 miles and maybe closer to 11 miles with all the curves.

(https://i.ibb.co/fvDJZDV/Union-City.jpg)

OSM got the numbers from Wikipedia as far as I know.  Not sure who added them to OSM however, as I haven't checked the history of those nodes.

Quote from: sprjus4 on February 21, 2024, 10:45:32 PM
https://www.wbbjtv.com/2024/02/21/state-route-690-opens-for-travelers-in-obion-county/

From the pictures in this article, it looks like there's no exit numbers.

Anyways, based on this post, I've quickly gone ahead and removed the numbers from OSM (https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/147758705).
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Rick Powell on February 23, 2024, 09:24:35 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on February 21, 2024, 10:32:39 AM
Look at the Shelby Bypass in North Carolina, I'd rather have part of it be built first just to get it laid out. Complete it as money allows. It doesn't have to function as the mainline I-69 or US-51 immediately if it causes a backtrack.

FYI here is the Troy Bypass budget item in the state TIP, see p. 81

https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/programdevelopment/2023-2026-stip-draft/Tennessee%20STIP%202023-2026%20Final_R%205-19-23.pdf
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: ITB on February 23, 2024, 10:08:59 PM
Quote from: Rick Powell on February 23, 2024, 09:24:35 AM

FYI here is the Troy Bypass budget item in the state TIP, see p. 81

https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/programdevelopment/2023-2026-stip-draft/Tennessee%20STIP%202023-2026%20Final_R%205-19-23.pdf

It's a welcome development to see the first phase of the Troy bypass in the State TIP. According to the document, the 90M project is fully funded and budgeted for FY25. If this is accurate and up to date, it leads me to assume the contract will be let either late this year or early next, with construction to commence soon thereafter. Maybe I'm missing something, but is that how others see it as well?
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: ITB on February 23, 2024, 11:49:26 PM

^^^^^

Well, in regards to the above, I did miss something. For some reason, I thought the TIP document reflected actual budgeted funding, when, in actuality, it only identified probable projected funding. This is made clear in the Proposed FY 2024-2026 Comprehensive Multimodal Program (https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/three-year-program/TDOT%20FY%2024-26%20Multimodal%20Program%20Final.pdf), submitted to the 113th Tennessee General Assembly, April 6, 2023, which does not include the first phase of the Troy bypass among the funded projects.

Now I know most of you who follow I-69 in Tennessee were already aware of this, and, on reflection, I did too. But seeing that FY25 in the TIP document made me reconsider, but wrongly. Yes, the project is construction ready, but, obviously, it's not a priority or it would be funded. I guess it's possible the project will pop up on the funded list sometime in the next few years, particularly if additional funds become available. More likely, however, it'll probably only move forward after the north Obion County segment has been funded.

Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Rick Powell on February 24, 2024, 12:32:22 AM
Quote from: ITB on February 23, 2024, 11:49:26 PM
I guess it's possible the project will pop up on the funded list sometime in the next few years, particularly if additional funds become available. More likely, however, it'll probably only move forward after the north Obion County segment has been funded.

https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/build-with-us/Updated%2010-Year%20Project%20Plan_21.pdf

Here's an interesting item I have commented on before. The above is TN's first-ever 10-year plan, released last December after the STIP had been released earlier last year. It includes $127.7M for I-69 in Obion County, and infers that it's for the state line interchange. However, the earlier STIP says the interchange will come in at $60M. And I'm sure KY will contribute since a good chunk of the project is on their side of the state line (or maybe the $60M is just TDOT's portion). That leaves $67M, more or less, for I-69 and maybe some work on the Troy bypass, if the money is not diverted to something else. If we were insiders at TDOT, we'd know more about the internal advancement of the Troy bypass...you couldn't think about construction in FY25 without some good progress on design plans and land acquisition.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on February 26, 2024, 01:18:30 PM
As of this morning Google maps has added the TN 690 Union City bypass, but has it signed as I-69.

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.4477828,-89.0534829,11z
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on February 26, 2024, 01:29:22 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on February 26, 2024, 01:18:30 PM
As of this morning Google maps has added the TN 690 Union City bypass, but has it signed as I-69.

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.4477828,-89.0534829,11z

But they still show the southbound exit ramp to US45W as closed until June of 2024. Perhaps this is the "sinker" someone noted earlier.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: jlam on February 26, 2024, 01:30:17 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on February 26, 2024, 01:18:30 PM
As of this morning Google maps has added the TN 690 Union City bypass, but has it signed as I-69.

That's Google Maps for you. This isn't even the only future segment of I-69 erroneously signed as such. I-69 in Indiana is marked up to I-465 along surface streets on Google Maps. Good luck getting Google to listen to a report.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: ilpt4u on February 26, 2024, 09:47:44 PM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on February 26, 2024, 01:18:30 PM
As of this morning Google maps has added the TN 690 Union City bypass, but has it signed as I-69.

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.4477828,-89.0534829,11z
Shielded as I-69, but in text over the freeway: "Tennessee State Rte 690"

Very similar to how Google Maps took a long time to give IL 390 a Shield (literally years), but had the text-based name of "IL 390 Tollway" along the route for quite a while. That is a bit of that route's history, since before ISTHA took over the roadway from IDOT, the route was unnumbered and known merely as the "Elgin-O'Hare Expressway"
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: The Ghostbuster on February 26, 2024, 10:40:25 PM
I can't wait for Google Maps Street View to be updated so we all can travel the Interstate 69 Union City Bypass without having to get off our computers. Also, as I previously mentioned, I hope it doesn't take as long to build the Troy Bypass.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Great Lakes Roads on February 26, 2024, 11:36:35 PM
I drove on the Union City Bypass yesterday (Sunday, February 25)... a video of me driving both directions will be going up on my YouTube page on February 29th.

Here are my observations:

1. The control cities on SR 690 are Fulton, KY (northbound) and Dyersburg (southbound).
2. The exit ramps to SB US 51 on the north end are currently closed (I don't know why).
3. There are SIX exits for Union City, and the city has a population of ~11k.
4. Let's hope that it doesn't take another 10+ years to build the Troy Bypass.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on February 27, 2024, 06:58:35 AM
Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on February 26, 2024, 11:36:35 PM
I drove on the Union City Bypass yesterday (Sunday, February 25)... a video of me driving both directions will be going up on my YouTube page on February 29th.

Here are my observations:

1. The control cities on SR 690 are Fulton, KY (northbound) and Dyersburg (southbound).
2. The exit ramps to SB US 51 on the north end are currently closed (I don't know why).
3. There are SIX exits for Union City, and the city has a population of ~11k.
4. Let's hope that it doesn't take another 10+ years to build the Troy Bypass.

Looking forward to it, northbound or southbound?

As far as the six exits are concerned, it is what it is.  Adding the ramps during initial construction is probably cheaper than adding them later.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Great Lakes Roads on March 01, 2024, 12:23:00 AM
https://youtu.be/pfp7WR4mQyw

TN 690 Southbound

https://youtu.be/-duILvaey4A

TN 690 Northbound
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: civilengineeringnerd on March 01, 2024, 11:15:08 AM
man the union city bypass looks great.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: Rick Powell on March 01, 2024, 11:36:31 AM
Quote from: GreenLanternCorps on February 27, 2024, 06:58:35 AM
As far as the six exits are concerned, it is what it is.  Adding the ramps during initial construction is probably cheaper than adding them later.

Watching the videos, it seemed that there were additional exit signs coming up right after passing each exit. About twice the number of exits you'd expect for a town of 11,000 but I'm sure there are other comparables across the US.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: froggie on March 02, 2024, 02:49:24 PM
North(east) of Brevard Rd technically meets FHWA rural spacing criteria of 3 miles, so I'd make the argument that it's more like FOUR interchanges with "town spacing" instead of six.

One comparison: Austin, MN has 7.5 interchanges along I-90, though to be fair Austin is about twice the size of Union City.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: civilengineeringnerd on March 04, 2024, 08:08:34 AM
at the very least, the new freeway would encourage more development in union city tn, with the expectation of the freeway being completed to dyersburg in the future. you'll likely see some additional development, as union city starts to grow into a good size town and a mini regional centre of commerce for northwest tennesse, the missouri bootheel and southeastern missouri, far western kentucky, and northeastern arkansas.
i imagine the city might replace dyersburg in a way, as recent decades since I-155 being built has not been kind to that town.
another thing that could happen is both towns acting as a set of twin cities, union city providing the jobs and tourism, while dyersburg acts like a suburb and regional population centre of commerce.
whatever happens in the coming decades tho, its gonna be great for both towns.
Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: edwaleni on March 04, 2024, 04:07:40 PM
Quote from: civilengineeringnerd on March 04, 2024, 08:08:34 AM
at the very least, the new freeway would encourage more development in union city tn, with the expectation of the freeway being completed to dyersburg in the future. you'll likely see some additional development, as union city starts to grow into a good size town and a mini regional centre of commerce for northwest tennesse, the missouri bootheel and southeastern missouri, far western kentucky, and northeastern arkansas.
i imagine the city might replace dyersburg in a way, as recent decades since I-155 being built has not been kind to that town.
another thing that could happen is both towns acting as a set of twin cities, union city providing the jobs and tourism, while dyersburg acts like a suburb and regional population centre of commerce.
whatever happens in the coming decades tho, its gonna be great for both towns.

In some TDOT strategic planning document I saw several years ago, there is a plan to connect Union City to Cates Landing Port Facility on the Mississippi by making several improvements to TN-22. At the same time, TNDOT wants to connect the Port of Cates Landing to the national railroad network by building a state owned spur from the port to the TennKenn Railroad to a point near Wright.

Title: Re: I-69 in TN
Post by: civilengineeringnerd on March 05, 2024, 12:38:31 AM
Quote from: edwaleni on March 04, 2024, 04:07:40 PM
Quote from: civilengineeringnerd on March 04, 2024, 08:08:34 AM
at the very least, the new freeway would encourage more development in union city tn, with the expectation of the freeway being completed to dyersburg in the future. you'll likely see some additional development, as union city starts to grow into a good size town and a mini regional centre of commerce for northwest tennesse, the missouri bootheel and southeastern missouri, far western kentucky, and northeastern arkansas.
i imagine the city might replace dyersburg in a way, as recent decades since I-155 being built has not been kind to that town.
another thing that could happen is both towns acting as a set of twin cities, union city providing the jobs and tourism, while dyersburg acts like a suburb and regional population centre of commerce.
whatever happens in the coming decades tho, its gonna be great for both towns.

In some TDOT strategic planning document I saw several years ago, there is a plan to connect Union City to Cates Landing Port Facility on the Mississippi by making several improvements to TN-21. At the same time, TNDOT wants to connect the Port of Cates Landing to the national railroad network by building a state owned spur from the port to the TennKenn Railroad to a point near Wright.
thats another good way of doing it. the paducah riverport helped that town grow when kentucky built the riverport some time ago, and last i heard some years ago, the riverport was getting some upgrades.
the interstate combined with the cates landing port and the railroad line to the tennkenn railroad is a good way of getting goods over longer distances.
especially if they decide to turn TN-22 into a freeway to huntingdon.