Outerbridge Crossing Replacement Plan Underway

[mapman1071]

http://www.silive.com/news/2017/03/study_to_begin_on_outerbridge.html

[SteveG1988]

http://www.silive.com/news/2017/03/study_to_begin_on_outerbridge.html

Will they copy the Goethals bridge for this one, similar to how the current one and the original goethals bridge were almost the same design? I doubt it will be anything other than a cable stay or a tied arch.

[froggie]

^ Who cares what it'll be, as long as it's functional, has 6 lanes, shoulders, and a bike/ped path?

[Roadgeek Adam]

Bike/ped path is the most important part. It would be nice to be able to bicycle from Perth Amboy to Tottenville. That way you could grab the SIR to St. George and head into the city.

[02 Park Ave]

Perhaps a new bridge will encourage them to complete the Korean War Veterans Parkway.

[Roadgeek Adam]

Perhaps a new bridge will encourage them to complete the Korean War Veterans Parkway.

haahahahahahahahahaha no.

[storm2k]

http://www.silive.com/news/2017/03/study_to_begin_on_outerbridge.html

Will they copy the Goethals bridge for this one, similar to how the current one and the original goethals bridge were almost the same design? I doubt it will be anything other than a cable stay or a tied arch.

More than likely, as the cable stayed look is what is "in" in bridge building still these days.

[roadman65]

^ Who cares what it'll be, as long as it's functional, has 6 lanes, shoulders, and a bike/ped path?

Wow this is so ironic coming from the man who is upset about NC using I-89 for the US 64 upgrade!

[cpzilliacus]

^ Who cares what it'll be, as long as it's functional, has 6 lanes, shoulders, and a bike/ped path?

Agree about the bike and pedestrian path. The one that was built with the new Woodrow Wilson Bridge (I-95 between Virginia and Maryland) gets a decent amount of use.  Like the Wilson Bridge making the connection between Va. and Md., there is no nearby connection between New York and New Jersey (I think the Bayonne Bridge will have such a trail when the project to raise the bridge deck is completed, but that's an entirely different travel market).

Beyond all of that, adding a bike and pedestrian trail to a new bridge with 6 or 8 travel lanes for motorized traffic is not especially expensive.

[roadman65]

Agreed there, as it would encourage more bikers to use it and take a few more cars away from the road.  Right now to get to NYC, you can only bike the GWB several miles away.  This way with all 3 Staten Island Crossings having bike lanes one could bike across Staten Island to St. George and then into Manhattan.

However from Perth Amboy to bike to the Tottenville Train Station would be most effective to get to the big city.    From Elizabeth biking the Goethals then across Forest Avenue, then Victory Blvd., and finally Bay Street is good for recreation, but if buses on Staten Island could install bike racks (like Orlando has) on the front of the bus, it could become a commute thing to someone working in Lower Manhattan.

Heck just to get on Staten Island from NJ by other means is a feat.

[Beltway]

Agree about the bike and pedestrian path. The one that was built with the new Woodrow Wilson Bridge (I-95 between Virginia and Maryland) gets a decent amount of use.  Like the Wilson Bridge making the connection between Va. and Md., there is no nearby connection between New York and New Jersey (I think the Bayonne Bridge will have such a trail when the project to raise the bridge deck is completed, but that's an entirely different travel market).
Beyond all of that, adding a bike and pedestrian trail to a new bridge with 6 or 8 travel lanes for motorized traffic is not especially expensive.

Especially given that they are not built to motor vehicle standards. 

The WWB trail is basically an extension of the bridge deck slab without underlying girders as the girders are not needed.

[Beltway]

Agreed there, as it would encourage more bikers to use it and take a few more cars away from the road.  Right now to get to NYC, you can only bike the GWB several miles away.  This way with all 3 Staten Island Crossings having bike lanes one could bike across Staten Island to St. George and then into Manhattan.

The Staten Island Ferry accommodates bicycles and carries over 60,000 passengers per day.  When the new Goethals Bridge is complete you will be able to bike from NJ to lower Manhattan.

[froggie]

^ Who cares what it'll be, as long as it's functional, has 6 lanes, shoulders, and a bike/ped path?

Wow this is so ironic coming from the man who is upset about NC using I-89 for the US 64 upgrade!

You must have me mistaken with someone else.  I disagreed with using 89 or 87 for that corridor, but was never upset about it...

I also have to ask what a route number in North Carolina has to do with a bridge between NJ and NY?

[roadman65]

Agreed there, as it would encourage more bikers to use it and take a few more cars away from the road.  Right now to get to NYC, you can only bike the GWB several miles away.  This way with all 3 Staten Island Crossings having bike lanes one could bike across Staten Island to St. George and then into Manhattan.

The Staten Island Ferry accommodates bicycles and carries over 60,000 passengers per day.  When the new Goethals Bridge is complete you will be able to bike from NJ to lower Manhattan.

Hopefully the Hudson-Bergen Light Rail could also be extended across the Bayonne Bridge onto Staten Island as NJ Transit has remote plans (whether a pipe dream or not have no clue)to extend it into NY on that end of the Bergen Peninsula.

[SteveG1988]

Agreed there, as it would encourage more bikers to use it and take a few more cars away from the road.  Right now to get to NYC, you can only bike the GWB several miles away.  This way with all 3 Staten Island Crossings having bike lanes one could bike across Staten Island to St. George and then into Manhattan.

The Staten Island Ferry accommodates bicycles and carries over 60,000 passengers per day.  When the new Goethals Bridge is complete you will be able to bike from NJ to lower Manhattan.

Hopefully the Hudson-Bergen Light Rail could also be extended across the Bayonne Bridge onto Staten Island as NJ Transit has remote plans (whether a pipe dream or not have no clue)to extend it into NY on that end of the Bergen Peninsula.

Is it sad that staten island has better connections to NJ than NY?

[NoGoodNamesAvailable]

Agreed there, as it would encourage more bikers to use it and take a few more cars away from the road.  Right now to get to NYC, you can only bike the GWB several miles away.  This way with all 3 Staten Island Crossings having bike lanes one could bike across Staten Island to St. George and then into Manhattan.

The Staten Island Ferry accommodates bicycles and carries over 60,000 passengers per day.  When the new Goethals Bridge is complete you will be able to bike from NJ to lower Manhattan.

Hopefully the Hudson-Bergen Light Rail could also be extended across the Bayonne Bridge onto Staten Island as NJ Transit has remote plans (whether a pipe dream or not have no clue)to extend it into NY on that end of the Bergen Peninsula.

Is it sad that staten island has better connections to NJ than NY?

I mean, the Arthur Kill and Kill van Kull are for the most part around 1/4 mile across, compared to New York Bay being a mile across in the Narrows and significantly wider above and below with no other good places for a crossing. It's just geographically way easier to connect SI to NJ.

SI is also significantly better connected to the rest of NYC than NJ via public transit, which dare I say on this forum is significantly more important that motor vehicle connectivity in NYC.

[roadman65]

I would like to see PATH continue not only to EWR, but beyond it tunneling under Newark Bay, then under Bayonne before going under the Kill Van Kull to traverse the Staten Island North Shore to terminate at the St. George Terminal.

It could have stations at Jersey Gardens, Bayonne, and in Staten Island in a few places along Richmond Terrace including Stapleton before it would terminate at the Ferry Landing. 

I know its far out, but it would have the PATH Red Line terminate at two places in NY and it would connect Staten Island via rail to EWR and also Manhattan as well (though a long ride as the Ferry would still save time). 

I do not know why the old Staten Island Freight Line from Cranford cannot be used as a commuter line and have a Cranford ( yes, the Raritan Valley station has extra platforms left from the Bayonne Shuttle Days) to Staten Island rail service.

[Roadgeek Adam]

That ain't going to happen.

None of those are.

[Duke87]

Is it sad that staten island has better connections to NJ than NY?

No, it's... expected. Geographically speaking, Staten Island is much closer to a lot of landmass in New Jersey than it is to any in New York. Functionally, it is west of the Hudson. It's a political anomaly that it's part of New York at all, it'd be more logical if it were part of New Jersey.

[SteveG1988]

Is it sad that staten island has better connections to NJ than NY?

No, it's... expected. Geographically speaking, Staten Island is much closer to a lot of landmass in New Jersey than it is to any in New York. Functionally, it is west of the Hudson. It's a political anomaly that it's part of New York at all, it'd be more logical if it were part of New Jersey.

I was hinting at that. It really should be in NJ. Should hold a refferendum, offer them pork roll sammwiches if they come to the garden state.

[Beltway]

Is it sad that staten island has better connections to NJ than NY?

No, it's... expected. Geographically speaking, Staten Island is much closer to a lot of landmass in New Jersey than it is to any in New York. Functionally, it is west of the Hudson. It's a political anomaly that it's part of New York at all, it'd be more logical if it were part of New Jersey.

Are they better?  Staten Island has a 12-lane Interstate connection to Brooklyn and a high-capacity transit connection to Manhattan.

[Alps]

Is it sad that staten island has better connections to NJ than NY?

No, it's... expected. Geographically speaking, Staten Island is much closer to a lot of landmass in New Jersey than it is to any in New York. Functionally, it is west of the Hudson. It's a political anomaly that it's part of New York at all, it'd be more logical if it were part of New Jersey.

I was hinting at that. It really should be in NJ. Should hold a refferendum, offer them pork roll sammwiches if they come to the garden state.

Taylor ham.

[SteveG1988]

Is it sad that staten island has better connections to NJ than NY?

No, it's... expected. Geographically speaking, Staten Island is much closer to a lot of landmass in New Jersey than it is to any in New York. Functionally, it is west of the Hudson. It's a political anomaly that it's part of New York at all, it'd be more logical if it were part of New Jersey.

Are they better?  Staten Island has a 12-lane Interstate connection to Brooklyn and a high-capacity transit connection to Manhattan.

"High capacity" you mean the ferry. If there was enough demand, and money NJ Transit could cooperate with MTA and open a staten island line. There is the rail bridge that connects Staten Island to NJ near the Goethals Bridge.

12 lanes to New york on one bridge, 14 to new jersey across 3 bridges once the new goethals and raised deck bayonne are finished.

So you got 3 Road bridges, one rail bridge to New Jersey. The bridges to NJ are all being upgraded to some degree.

[Beltway]

Is it sad that staten island has better connections to NJ than NY?

No, it's... expected. Geographically speaking, Staten Island is much closer to a lot of landmass in New Jersey than it is to any in New York. Functionally, it is west of the Hudson. It's a political anomaly that it's part of New York at all, it'd be more logical if it were part of New Jersey.

Are they better?  Staten Island has a 12-lane Interstate connection to Brooklyn and a high-capacity transit connection to Manhattan.

"High capacity" you mean the ferry. If there was enough demand, and money NJ Transit could cooperate with MTA and open a staten island line. There is the rail bridge that connects Staten Island to NJ near the Goethals Bridge.
12 lanes to New york on one bridge, 14 to new jersey across 3 bridges once the new goethals and raised deck bayonne are finished.
So you got 3 Road bridges, one rail bridge to New Jersey. The bridges to NJ are all being upgraded to some degree.

Over 60,000 weekday riders on the SI Ferry, that is certainly high capacity.  Its being served by a SI rapid rail line and large parking lots helps promote that capacity, plus multiple subway lines in Manhattan.

The rail bridge near the Goethals Bridge looks like it only has one track, per Google Maps satellite view.  How much passenger rail ridership could that handle?

[SteveG1988]

Is it sad that staten island has better connections to NJ than NY?

No, it's... expected. Geographically speaking, Staten Island is much closer to a lot of landmass in New Jersey than it is to any in New York. Functionally, it is west of the Hudson. It's a political anomaly that it's part of New York at all, it'd be more logical if it were part of New Jersey.

Are they better?  Staten Island has a 12-lane Interstate connection to Brooklyn and a high-capacity transit connection to Manhattan.

"High capacity" you mean the ferry. If there was enough demand, and money NJ Transit could cooperate with MTA and open a staten island line. There is the rail bridge that connects Staten Island to NJ near the Goethals Bridge.
12 lanes to New york on one bridge, 14 to new jersey across 3 bridges once the new goethals and raised deck bayonne are finished.
So you got 3 Road bridges, one rail bridge to New Jersey. The bridges to NJ are all being upgraded to some degree.

Over 60,000 weekday riders on the SI Ferry, that is certainly high capacity.  Its being served by a SI rapid rail line and large parking lots helps promote that capacity, plus multiple subway lines in Manhattan.

The rail bridge near the Goethals Bridge looks like it only has one track, per Google Maps satellite view.  How much passenger rail ridership could that handle?

Couple thousand. The atlantic city line was single track over the Delair bridge, is now using both tracks due to a new station that opened up on the bridge, but the line is mostly single track. This lower end line gets 2,951 riders a day. It would also involve reactivating the entire north shore branch of the SIR to make service over the Arthur Kill a reality.