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I-78 in NJ/NY - question

Started by MrAndy1369, April 08, 2018, 10:34:20 PM

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roadman65

I do not know why NY 495 cannot be applied to Dyer Avenue and 34th Street to connect NJ 495 to I-495 to have one continuous Route 495.  It would make perfect sense.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe


Duke87

Quote from: roadman65 on April 15, 2018, 04:09:44 PM
I do not know why NY 495 cannot be applied to Dyer Avenue and 34th Street to connect NJ 495 to I-495 to have one continuous Route 495.  It would make perfect sense.

Except not really. First of all, there isn't a lot of through traffic cutting across midtown Manhattan, and is this is not something you particularly want to encourage. There really isn't a logical continuous corridor through there, if you want to get from Queens to New Jersey you go through Staten Island or up to the GWB (most likely via The Bronx but possibly via the FDR/HRD in some cases).

Locals in New York City do not navigate by route numbers anyway.

So, putting up such signs would have little to no functional benefit, and at least as much downside.
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

roadman65

Putting up NY 495 shields across mid Manhattan is no different then the TO I-495 shields that are there now!  Plus there is no West I-495 from 34th Street as some signs are saying anyway.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

AMLNet49

I mean I think everyone understands that 495 is the tunnels from either side of midtown and the freeways on the other side of each river. When you say 495, (which is a term locals dont use, but if prompted thats what they say - I've sort of dropped the number casually to people i have visited in the city, just prior to leaving, when talking about traffic and looking at my phone there just to see what would happen) they think "midtown tunnels and highways on the other side"

roadman65

Quote from: AMLNet49 on April 18, 2018, 12:26:50 PM
I mean I think everyone understands that 495 is the tunnels from either side of midtown and the freeways on the other side of each river. When you say 495, (which is a term locals dont use, but if prompted thats what they say - I've sort of dropped the number casually to people i have visited in the city, just prior to leaving, when talking about traffic and looking at my phone there just to see what would happen) they think "midtown tunnels and highways on the other side"
Yes I know, as most locals still refer to NJ 495 as Route 3 as NYCDOT  would be better off leaving TO I-495 WB shields on 34th Street for that as there is no longer an I-495 WB from that direction heading to NJ.  It was good when NJDOT kept I-495 alive as it were so, but now the sign is erroneous.

Yes, New Yorkers use street names including freeways.  Does anyone refer to either the Major Deegan or NY Thruway as I-87?  Is the BQE or Bruckner ever called I-278 or even the Cross Bronx as I-95?  How far east on Sunrise Highway do you have to go before Route 27 actually is considered a highway?
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

mapman1071

Quote from: DJStephens on April 09, 2018, 11:05:03 AM
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on April 08, 2018, 11:01:08 PM
It is a horrible situation.  There is a similar one in Pennsylvania called "Breezewood".  These situations exist because local business interests pressure the politicians to let them.

In Philadelphia there is likewise I-676 with traffic lights on it.  That one could be easily resolved by just closing off the cross streets.  But again the motoring public is at the mercy of the politicians.

Incidently, I-78 was originally planned to continue eastward across Manhattan, through Brooklyn, loop past Kennedy Airport and then head north over the Throggs Neck Bridge to join I-95 in the Bronx.  One and a half portions were actually built, viz. what is now I-295 in Queens and the eastbound freeway from the Belt Parkway to Kennedy Airport.  Politicians prevented the completion of this highway.

The once proposed lower Manhattan expressway was termed "LOMEX".  It was to cut across lower Manhattan Island before crossing into Brooklyn on an pre-existing bridge.  Do not know whether it was to be either the Brooklyn or Queensboro.  Or another.  Once in Brooklyn it was to follow arterials as either a surface or depressed facility before eventually reaching Idlewild Airport, which is now JFK.  The disruption of such a facility, and the attitude of Moses, made it pretty much dead on arrival.  Believe Moses was credited with a comment along the lines of cutting through neighborhoods as "chopping with a meat axe".  This facility, along with the cancelled Cross Manhattan, would have made NYC a far more favorable place today in terms of traffic congestion and trucking. 
blame  Jane Jacobs not Moses for the cancellation of Lower Manhattan Expressway (I-78) and Mid-Manhattan Expressway (I-495)

Rothman

I'd credit them rather than blame them.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Alps

Quote from: Rothman on April 21, 2018, 10:07:29 PM
I'd credit them rather than blame them.
Stop thinking practically. This is AARoads, not AAReasonable.

froggie

^ This also isn't the Fictional Highways folder, so AAReasonable is very much at play.

Mergingtraffic

Quote from: AMLNet49 on April 18, 2018, 12:26:50 PM
I mean I think everyone understands that 495 is the tunnels from either side of midtown and the freeways on the other side of each river. When you say 495, (which is a term locals dont use, but if prompted thats what they say - I've sort of dropped the number casually to people i have visited in the city, just prior to leaving, when talking about traffic and looking at my phone there just to see what would happen) they think "midtown tunnels and highways on the other side"

That is true, I always found the I-495 shield on this sign amusing because people don't think of it as such.
I only take pics of good looking signs. Long live non-reflective button copy!
MergingTraffic https://www.flickr.com/photos/98731835@N05/

roadman65

Quote from: Mergingtraffic on April 22, 2018, 10:50:10 AM
Quote from: AMLNet49 on April 18, 2018, 12:26:50 PM
I mean I think everyone understands that 495 is the tunnels from either side of midtown and the freeways on the other side of each river. When you say 495, (which is a term locals dont use, but if prompted thats what they say - I've sort of dropped the number casually to people i have visited in the city, just prior to leaving, when talking about traffic and looking at my phone there just to see what would happen) they think "midtown tunnels and highways on the other side"

That is true, I always found the I-495 shield on this sign amusing because people don't think of it as such.

See more of them as the MUTCD is pushing for route numbers over road names, despite in NY people use names in common talk.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

mrsman

IMO the signs for 78 and 495 would be accurate if  they used "to" as an additional banner.   All westbound signs for the 78 and all eastbound signs for 495.  The westbound 495 signs would technically be in error.  And eastbound 78 simply doesn't need to be signed in Jersey City.  (The signs will refer to Holland tunnel and NYC but not 78)

Nexus 5X


roadman65

Quote from: mrsman on May 28, 2018, 10:28:46 AM
IMO the signs for 78 and 495 would be accurate if  they used "to" as an additional banner.   All westbound signs for the 78 and all eastbound signs for 495.  The westbound 495 signs would technically be in error.  And eastbound 78 simply doesn't need to be signed in Jersey City.  (The signs will refer to Holland tunnel and NYC but not 78)

Nexus 5X


I never really saw a sign east of Jersey City that refers to EB 12th or the tunnel itself as I-78.  In fact it was not until this forum I heard that I-78 ends in NYC, as for decades I used to think that it ended with the Turnpike.  I am sure a lot of people think that anyway if they don't think that it ends in Newark as most people refer to the NJ Turnpike as the Turnpike and Newark Bay Extension.

I think it is allowed by the feds to exist simply because its not part of two disconnected freeway segments and the fact that many are ignorant to the fact that I-78 exists east of the Turnpike end at Jersey Avenue.

I think most do not care that I-78 has stoplights because it ends at the NY side of the tunnel where having it signed would not help either way. Once you reach the end of the NBTA you are four blocks from the Tunnel that leads straight into the city that you are destined for.  Well signed is the tunnel as the toll plaza has large enough lettering that it can be seen for a half a mile, so you might as well consider destination arrived once you arrive at Jersey Avenue.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe



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