AARoads Forum

Quote from: Kansas Turnpike Authority
For more information, contact:
Rachel Bell, Marketing & Communications Director, 316.652.2673  rbell@ksturnpike.com

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
February 15, 2016
Kansas Turnpike to be compatible with Texas in early 2017

WICHITA, Kan. – The Kansas Turnpike Authority has entered into an agreement to be part of a hub system that will allow for compatibility between the multiple agencies in Texas and the Oklahoma and Kansas turnpike authorities beginning in 2017.

This partnership will allow travelers to use one electronic transponder to pay for tolls in the Midwest.

"Customers tell us they want more convenient travel be tween states and on other tolling systems. We are excited that this agreement brings us one step closer to offering that,"  said  KTA's CEO Steve Hewitt. "This is an important step toward nationwide interoperability."

Although the agreement has been signed by KTA, there is still much to be done before the electronic tolling systems can all work together. The most time-intensive piece yet-to-be completed is the back-office programming of the "hub" , which will facilitate transaction
communication between seven different tolling authorities in Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas.

Hub participants in Texas hope to have this work completed to facilitate interoperability in early 2017.

KTA will provide updates on this and other interoperability efforts throughout 2016.

Currently, K-TAG electronic toll collection program customers can use their K-TAG on all of Oklahoma's ten toll facilities.

Also, of course, the OTA Pikepass can be used on the Kansas Turnpike, along with NTTA facilities in the Dallas/Fort Worth area. NTTA transponders are also valid in Oklahoma, but not Kansas.

See also: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=17329.0

Almost sounds like they're creating a second E-ZPass.  Too bad we can't just force every jurisdiction in the US and Canada to switch to E-ZPass...

Quote from: vdeane on February 25, 2016, 10:16:39 PM
Almost sounds like they're creating a second E-ZPass.  Too bad we can't just force every jurisdiction in the US and Canada to switch to E-ZPass...

I personally find an E-ZPass-interoperable transponder more useful than a K-TAG/PikePass-interoperable transponder.  Paying cash for the Kansas Turnpike (which I don't use on a regular basis) and Oklahoma Turnpikes (which I rarely use) isn't a big deal to me (and, for whatever reason, it's been a very long time since I've been on a toll road in Texas).  But on trips to the east coast, it's nice to be able to use the Pennsylvania Turnpike and Verrazano Bridge without having to carry a fat wad of cash in my wallet, and it's nice to get a toll discount and use the open-road-tolling lanes on trips to (or through) northern Illinois.  I'll just wait until Kansas, Oklahoma, and Texas become interoperable with E-ZPass, and when they do, my I-PASS will be ready.

By the way, E-ZPass interoperability is mentioned on pages 15 and 17 of the KTA's "Long-Term Needs Study" (http://www.ksturnpike.com/assets/uploads/2015_LTNS.pdf).

The big problem with paying cash on turnpikes: that's not an option on a growing number of toll roads.

Oklahoma's toll roads in the past have been good about cash lane options, but that's only because the toll roads here have been in operation for a long time. Even after PikePass became popular the cash lanes remained open. However, drivers needed to have exact change for exits with unmanned toll booths. Those booths that still have attendants often pull them at late night, leaving the need for exact change. I expect future toll roads in Oklahoma to be unmanned, requiring PikePass use.

Plenty of toll roads in Texas use only toll tags or photograph your license plate for mail-in payment. Texas having at least 3 different toll road agencies makes that a pain. I'll really like it once PikePass can operate on any toll road in Texas.

The self-pay lanes in Kansas give change... and they take plastic.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7456/9473547647_1324fb8a96_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/fr9pEp)
39001 (https://flic.kr/p/fr9pEp) by Richie Kennedy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/richiekennedy56/), on Flickr

Cassoday (exit 92) and Tonganoxie (exit 212) are the only exits I'm aware of that are completely unstaffed. The latter is also the first interchange that introduced self-pay cash lanes to the Kansas Turnpike.

[The above photo was taken at the Tonganoxie exit soon after it opened in December 2009]

Quote from: Bobby5280 on February 26, 2016, 04:52:02 PM
The big problem with paying cash on turnpikes: that's not an option on a growing number of toll roads.

Oklahoma's toll roads in the past have been good about cash lane options, but that's only because the toll roads here have been in operation for a long time. Even after PikePass became popular the cash lanes remained open. However, drivers needed to have exact change for exits with unmanned toll booths. Those booths that still have attendants often pull them at late night, leaving the need for exact change. I expect future toll roads in Oklahoma to be unmanned, requiring PikePass use.

Is it a big deal to just stock up on quarters, dimes, and nickels before you hit the road?  It's pretty common knowledge that you should carry a bunch of quarters and dimes if you're driving the Garden State Parkway without an E-ZPass.  The exact change requirement doesn't mean people should rush out and get a PikePass; it just means people should plan ahead, which they should do anyway.

I don't need a PikePass.... I already got a K-TAG  :bigass:

You never know. Well, correction, i do know. I plan ahead and have cash or whatever for turnpikes or am prepared to shunpike the idiot versions that only take their precious special specific in network plan tag. I have ways of avoiding their damned road if they can't make it easy and reasonable to drive on it. And that's another hint to the poop-hair slow boys who perpetuate this madness of many inoperable toll tags across the continent. There really is no legitimate excuse for that nonsense. They need to fix it already and do it ASAP. Don't make us wait til 2018 or whenever. Get it done. Now.

I won't be made to be patient over it. This is a problem those toll company people created themselves over their big egos. Fix it immediately without inconveniencing us.

Defense of the current status quo? None that I can see. If the toll company guys want to make it difficult for me to get around then I'll find ways to stay put in my own community and buy some crap online that I might have otherwise bought on a road trip.

Had my first chance to use my Pikepass on the Kansas Turnpike from South Haven to Wichita.  WTF????  Gates??? Slow to 20 m.p.h???  What genius came up with that?

Quote from: rte66man on March 20, 2016, 11:19:56 PM
Had my first change to use my Pikepass on the Kansas Turnpike from South Haven to Wichita.  WTF????  Gates??? Slow to 20 m.p.h???  What genius came up with that?

Two of the plazas on the H. E. Bailey are built like that, although OTA will rebuild them eventually.

And speaking of interoperability, PikePass and TexTag were supposed to have been talking to each other two years ago, but that proposal seems to have died a quiet death. I got tired of waiting for it to happen and traded in my TexTag and PikePass for an NTTA TollTag. Works in Texas and Oklahoma, and I never go up into Kansas.

Quote from: bmorrill on March 21, 2016, 10:13:05 AM

Quote from: rte66man on March 20, 2016, 11:19:56 PM
Had my first change to use my Pikepass on the Kansas Turnpike from South Haven to Wichita.  WTF????  Gates??? Slow to 20 m.p.h???  What genius came up with that?

Two of the plazas on the H. E. Bailey are built like that, although OTA will rebuild them eventually.

Not at all the same.  The Bailey toll plazas were built in the 60's way before Pikepass was a reality.  If you are KTA, why spend all that money on new lanes and MAKE everyone slow down?  Why not do it like OTA, make the lanes high speed with cameras to capture the scofflaws.

Quote from: rte66man on March 20, 2016, 11:19:56 PM
Had my first chance to use my Pikepass on the Kansas Turnpike from South Haven to Wichita.  WTF????  Gates??? Slow to 20 m.p.h???  What genius came up with that?

Starker, this is Kansas, we don't open road here (at least not yet)

As to why the KTA did not do ORT when it re-did the mainline plazas in the early 2000s, I suppose it may had to do with how the authority wanted to handle toll enforcement.... or toll-taker job security. If a driver without a K-TAG uses the KTAG lane, they will be greeted by the toll-taker in the adjacent cash lane.

KTA is looking at joining the modern era and implementing ORT on the mainline plazas.

Quote from: route56 on February 26, 2016, 09:29:35 PM
I don't need a PikePass.... I already got a K-TAG  :bigass:

Except KTAG doesn't work with NTTA yet...

Hey, everybody, I have finally found myself in a position to get a PikePass:  We finally have a new (to us) vehicle, and the only toll roads I use anymore are in Kansas and Oklahoma–unless you count the border crossing into México, which doesn't take tags at all.  So what is the best way for me to go about getting a PikePass, and how exactly does that work?  Does it take a certain amount of money down?  Do I have to keep adding money into the account?  etc.

As I recall, K-Tag was introduced in the mid-1990's when almost nobody was doing ORT.  There would have been operational considerations as well when re-doing the terminal plazas, since other agencies that do mainline ORT generally require cash-paying traffic to exit to side plazas.

Quote from: kphoger on April 07, 2016, 02:37:27 PM
Except KTAG doesn't work with NTTA yet...

Hey, everybody, I have finally found myself in a position to get a PikePass:  We finally have a new (to us) vehicle, and the only toll roads I use anymore are in Kansas and Oklahoma–unless you count the border crossing into México, which doesn't take tags at all. 

So, you want to get a PikePass because K-TAGs don't work in Dallas, yet you also state that you don't use any toll roads besides KS and OK...  :confused:

As for your questions, they can probably best be answered by pikepass.com (http://pikepass.com) and myktag.com (http://myktag.com). From what I can tell, Oklahoma does require money down to open a PikePass account and is pre-pay. The KTA, on the other hand, is in the process of moving their remaining pre-pay accounts to post-pay. KTA does require an active piece of plastic on file, which will generally be charged monthly.*

*However, the KTA will not send a statement or charge a card if the K-TAG balance remains less than $10 for up to 6 months. For example, in January of this year, I did not do a lot of driving due to a foot injury and, therefore, only accrued $9.52 in Tolls. I did not receive a statement for January; the balance carried over to February. I returned to work in February, so I quickly reached the $10 threshold and got a statement for February.

Today, probably more than 20 years after K-Tag started, I finally opened a K-Tag account.  I have to say input validation on the K-Tag website does not work well at all.

*  Your password must, at minimum, have eight characters, with at least one in the following categories:  uppercase letter, lowercase letter, digit, and special character.  If you use a period or comma as the special character, the password will pass client-side validation but the server will reject it.  The server will also make you wait until you have a password that meets its exacting standards (I ultimately had to use an octothorp as the special character) before it tells you that your preferred username is unavailable.

*  The second page of the form, which asks you to specify two telephone numbers, does not indicate a format or perform client-side validation, but the server will spit the form back if grouping characters like hyphens or parentheses are used in either phone number.

I asked for three RFID stickers, so each car in the family fleet will have its own sticker.  I am still not sold on permanently attaching any of them to the inside of the windshield, and am considering whether I should set aside foil packets to carry them when I pass outside the current areas of K-Tag interoperability.  Ultimately, I decided to sign up for K-Tag on the basis of accounting convenience, because I don't use tolled infrastructure in any US state often enough to justify the upfront cost of a hardshell transponder, let alone the ongoing headache of staying up to date on prepaid toll accounts.

Quote from: J N Winkler on April 17, 2016, 12:58:02 PM
*  Your password must, at minimum, have eight characters, with at least one in the following categories:  uppercase letter, lowercase letter, digit, and special character.  If you use a period or comma as the special character, the password will pass client-side validation but the server will reject it.  The server will also make you wait until you have a password that meets its exacting standards (I ultimately had to use an octothorp as the special character) before it tells you that your preferred username is unavailable.

The "strengthening" of the password requirements is relatively recent. My original password for the KTA website was six characters with no "special" characters (an old relic from my days as a KU student: it was the password assigned to my EECS account)

Octothorpe? I think many people would be clueless as to what that is. However, if you said "pound sign" or "hashtag"...

/me $w0rdF1$h

I generally avoid periods and commas as special characters in passwords because they have meaning in several programming languages and thus are frequently disallowed. I've had an issue with a program at work disliking asterisks in a subtly broken way: it allows you to change your password to include an asterisk, but you cannot manually change that password (e.g. to synchronize it the password used on other systems with enforced password rotation); you must wait for the password to expire and for the program to prompt you for a new password. I assume this has something to do with SQL (or perhaps Visual Basic) wildcarding, but I can't figure out what would cause the error to manifest itself in such a way.

A couple of days after my last post upthread, the three RFID tags arrived, and I drove around in a 2005 Toyota Camry on the Turnpike south of Wichita on Wednesday, April 20, to test one of them, deliberately not mounting it on the windshield.  I then did further testing on the turnpikes in both Kansas and Oklahoma in the course of an overnight weekend trip (spending the night of Saturday, April 23, in Mena, Arkansas), before I eventually gave in and actually stuck the tag to the windshield.  These were my findings:

*  On KTA infrastructure, blown reads are typically not readily evident unless there is a gate that is down that does not go up as your car approaches.  Gates on some ramps (e.g. southbound entry at Exit 42, South Wichita) seem to be left up by default.  Both KTA and OTA use little thank-you lights, but these are not conspicuous, and at speed and especially with the ORT rigs OTA uses on the Kilpatrick Turnpike, it is difficult to tell whether the light is actually coming on for your car rather than a nearby transponder-equipped vehicle.  If memory serves, OTA does not use gates for transponder lanes even at traditional mainline toll plazas on the older turnpikes.  (Since KTA uses a tolling model that requires attribution of entry and exit point to a given vehicle, it is not clear to me whether an apparent failed read on exit is actually due to failed read on entry.)

*  KTA has a very vague brochure on RFID tag installation that says, essentially, "install between mirror mount and headliner."  On the Camry this would have meant putting the sticker on top of anti-glare stippling around the mirror mount, thus making it impossible to razor off without also removing the stippling.  These are bad instructions:  no-one should ever be made to feel that he or she has to damage his or her car, even cosmetically, to use a transponder.  OTA has a much better brochure with highly specific instructions for multiple mounting scenarios, including trucks and private passenger automobiles with mirror mounts on the headliner or windshield.  OTA stresses that the tag must be stuck on the windshield with no air bubbles, and for cars recommends a mounting position 4 in below headliner edge, which can be conveniently measured with a ruler printed in the brochure.  When I finally gave in and stuck the tag on (at a truck parking area just off I-35 near Stillwater), I followed the OTA (not KTA) instructions, choosing a location that was both outside the anti-glare stippling and completely hidden from view by the mirror itself.

*  Both KTA and OTA will read an unattached sticker tag reliably only if it is actually held against the windshield at or above driver's eye height.  If the tag is perched at the bottom of the windshield, or held in the driver's hand on the steering wheel, successful reads become a matter of chance, while a tag on top of the console next to the gearshift lever is effectively invisible.  Tag readers (usually housed in white boxes suspended from mast arms) are easy to spot everywhere on the Kansas Turnpike and at traditional mainline and ramp plazas on older OTA infrastructure.  On newer OTA facilities (Kilpatrick Turnpike for sure, and probably also Creek Turnpike as well), readers are sometimes hidden; I tried the Kilpatrick Turnpike and blew past a reader on the I-40 ramp before I had a chance to pick up the tag and hold it to the windshield.

*  The two agencies have different protocols for handling blown reads.  On KTA infrastructure, if the gate is down, the toll collector will raise it manually, and you are then expected to roll down your window, show your transponder, and state your entry point so the journey can be manually recorded.  On OTA infrastructure, there is no immediate response, though there are numerous signs warning of heavy fines for toll evasion.  When I visited the PikePass service center at I-35 and NE 122nd St. in Oklahoma City to report what I suspected was a blown read on the Kilpatrick Turnpike at the I-40 ramp, I learned that (1) there is no way to determine in real time whether a read has failed, and (2) any failed reads (including self-reporting) must be handled through the home agency, which was KTA in my case.  Since KTA (unlike some other transponder-issuing toll agencies) does not require the user to report the license plate number of the car in which a particular transponder has been installed, the license plate of a vehicle whose transponder is not read cannot be automatically attributed to a particular transponder account for billing purposes.

I am still hearing stories of people driving transponderlessly on electronically tolled roads in Texas and Florida without any comeback, but I don't know if that is or has ever been true for Oklahoma.  In Kansas, a law has just been passed which provides for blocking license plate renewal for any vehicle for which over $100 worth of unpaid tolls (I believe exclusive of collection charges) has accumulated.  KTA would like to move to ORT in the near future; the time is ripe since 70% of its toll collectors are at or near retirement age.  This initiative has received added impetus from a recent accident (http://www.kwch.com/content/misc/Semi-crashes-into-toll-booth-377232571.html) in which a tractor-trailer collided with a minivan stopped to pick up a toll ticket at the South Terminal, resulting in one tollbooth overturned and minor injuries to two people.

Toll agencies in general are still far too blasé about the implications of people having multiple windshield-mounted transponders.  Paraphrasing their respective brochures, KTA says "Take down any transponders interoperable with us to avoid double-billing issues," while OTA says, "Our tag can go down right next to other agencies' transponders" (no word about what this does to visibility through the windshield).  Nationwide interoperability will eventually remove the need to have more than one transponder just to enable electronic toll collection, but AFAIK federal law still allows geographical toll discrimination (like what Rhode Island tried to do with the Sakonnet bridge) and this will have to be abolished in order to remove the incentive to run multiple transponders.  KTA and OTA do behave well from this point of view since they honor each other's electronic discounts.

Quote from: J N Winkler on May 09, 2016, 01:50:59 PM
A couple of days after my last post upthread, the three RFID tags arrived, and I drove around in a 2005 Toyota Camry on the Turnpike south of Wichita on Wednesday, April 20, to test one of them, deliberately not mounting it on the windshield.  I then did further testing on the turnpikes in both Kansas and Oklahoma in the course of an overnight weekend trip (spending the night of Saturday, April 23, in Mena, Arkansas), before I eventually gave in and actually stuck the tag to the windshield.  These were my findings:
If memory serves, OTA does not use gates for transponder lanes even at traditional mainline toll plazas on the older turnpikes. 

Before the Wellston service area on the westbound Turner was razed in the last few years, there was an arm there.  When the westbound onramp was rebuilt, the arm was removed. I have traveled every mile of OK turnpikes numerous times and have not seen another arm.  Even when the Turner and Will Rogers had toll booths at each end, there were no arms.

I can't wait for OTA to rebuild the Walters and Chickasha toll plazas on the H.E. Bailey Turnpike. If I recall correctly they were scheduled to be rebuilt in 2016 (Chickasha) and 2018 (Walters). Does anyone know if that schedule is still good or have those projects been pushed back years later?

The Chickasha and Walters toll booths may not have arms, but they still suck for their lack of high speed Pike Pass lanes. I wish the Newcastle toll plaza had two lanes for Pike Pass users, but at least the single outboard lanes are high speed.

Quote from: Bobby5280 on May 24, 2016, 04:30:00 PMI can't wait for OTA to rebuild the Walters and Chickasha toll plazas on the H.E. Bailey Turnpike. If I recall correctly they were scheduled to be rebuilt in 2016 (Chickasha) and 2018 (Walters). Does anyone know if that schedule is still good or have those projects been pushed back years later?

Chickasha tollbooth relocation contract (HEB-MC-59) was advertised with an opening date last May 10:

https://www.pikepass.com/Engineering/ProjectInformation.aspx

The "opening" date of May 10 for the re-build of the Chickasha toll plaza: is that "opening" meaning the project is only just now being opened for bids? If that's the case construction probably won't start on the project before year's end or maybe well on into 2017.

At least the design in the plan sheets show the two main travel lanes of I-44 in each direction will remain in the center while the toll booths are built to the outside. That will make it a significantly better toll booth than the one South of Newcastle.

Quote from: J N Winkler on May 24, 2016, 05:20:31 PM

Quote from: Bobby5280 on May 24, 2016, 04:30:00 PMI can't wait for OTA to rebuild the Walters and Chickasha toll plazas on the H.E. Bailey Turnpike. If I recall correctly they were scheduled to be rebuilt in 2016 (Chickasha) and 2018 (Walters). Does anyone know if that schedule is still good or have those projects been pushed back years later?

Chickasha tollbooth relocation contract (HEB-MC-59) was advertised with an opening date last May 10:

https://www.pikepass.com/Engineering/ProjectInformation.aspx

It is my understanding OTA has to get this done before ODOT can start work on the Chickasha bypass as the removal of the existing toll plaza is needed as the bypass will intersect the Bailey very near there.
http://www.odot.org/meetings/a2013/130724/intchg_i44.pdf

What is the construction time line on that bypass and cloverleaf interchange? Is the project even funded?

I'd love to see that Chickasha toll booth replaced ASAP, but I'm pretty surprised a freeway quality bypass has been proposed for Chickasha. I understand it's mainly to get heavy truck traffic on US-81 diverted away from downtown Chickasha. But that's a common problem in many communities in Oklahoma. The US-69 corridor in Oklahoma from the Red River to Big Cabin is absolutely pigged with heavy truck traffic. That entire road needs to be an extension of I-45. But that's not going to happen any time soon. From my own selfish concerns I'd like to see Rogers Lane in Lawton upgraded to an Interstate from I-44 out West. Right now that glorified street is a dangerous wannabe Interstate which can be upgraded rather easily to full Interstate quality.

My best guess is that construction will start on the Chickasha tollbooth relocation sometime this summer, assuming one month for contract award and a further one to two months for issuance of notice to proceed.

Other than from I-35 to Tulsa and back several years ago, the Bailey is the only turnpike I've driven in Oklahoma, so I just figured the Chickasha and Walters toll booth were typical Oklahoma (Okie) design. Apparently there are more modern/convenient ones out there? Who knew!

Are there any plans to rehabilitate the Walters service plaza? On last year's trip, we had planned to eat lunch at the McDonald's there, but it had been torn down and we had to push on to Burkburnett. Plus, the welcome center had signs up stating they would be closing their doors the following week (in fact, the return trip may have been on their last day open).

When I get our PikePass soon, I'll probably opt for keeping it detached and simply sticking it on with masking tape during road trips. The primary reason for this is that the windshield location for mounting it is exactly the same as for Mexican import stickers, and I'd rather keep that area uncluttered, especially since our new car has a blue sun strip which pushes all stickers farther down into my line of sight.

My boss today was calling on company toll violations in Kansas, Oklahoma, and Texas. One fun conversion was about some guys having gone to Dallas to bring some work trucks to our Tulsa regional office. The driver's weren't aware of Texas' ticketless tolling and unintentionally incurred toll violations on all those vehicles. The Dallas manager didn't want to pay the fines because the vehicles aren't his office's anymore, the Tulsa manager didn't want to pay the fines because the violations didn't happen in his region, et cetera. Fun times.

Quote from: kphoger on May 26, 2016, 07:29:47 PMOther than from I-35 to Tulsa and back several years ago, the Bailey is the only turnpike I've driven in Oklahoma, so I just figured the Chickasha and Walters toll booth were typical Oklahoma (Okie) design. Apparently there are more modern/convenient ones out there? Who knew!

Here's what ORT looks like on the Kilpatrick Turnpike:

Ramp plaza on SH 66 exit ramp (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Oklahoma+City,+OK/@35.5135584,-97.696156,3a,75y,24.16h,86.6t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sDlmx_U1kDuxtQuLX_AzYPw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DDlmx_U1kDuxtQuLX_AzYPw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D64.2817%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x87ad8a547ef8d281:0x33a21274d14f3a9d!8m2!3d35.4675602!4d-97.5164276!6m1!1e1)

Wilshire Blvd. mainline toll plaza--Exit for cash traffic (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.5578912,-97.6889136,3a,75y,357.19h,93.98t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFt3GfFPsuWAAB1G1XQNNGg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1)

Wilshire Blvd. mainline toll plaza--View of mainline toll gantry with RFID readers (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.5616264,-97.688911,3a,75y,320.93h,86.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sl_RaYmxxHh10jAYIJDP-hQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1)

The toll gantry on the ramp between I-40 westbound and the Kilpatrick Turnpike northbound, which surprised me and was one main factor in my deciding no longer to try holding the RFID sticker to the windshield or fastening it in place with masking tape, appears not yet to be shown on StreetView imagery.

Quote from: kphoger on May 26, 2016, 07:29:47 PMWhen I get our PikePass soon, I'll probably opt for keeping it detached and simply sticking it on with masking tape during road trips. The primary reason for this is that the windshield location for mounting it is exactly the same as for Mexican import stickers, and I'd rather keep that area uncluttered, especially since our new car has a blue sun strip which pushes all stickers farther down into my line of sight.

I wouldn't hassle with masking tape, since that still leaves an air gap between the RFID sticker and the windshield and OTA advises that air bubbles between the sticker and windshield are enough to cause blown reads.

Unless the Mexicans have changed the design of their import stickers enormously in the last 13 years, the preferred location is the upper left corner of the windshield, which is where my stickers went.  This is not the location either OTA or KTA advise for RFID stickers, though OTA says it is acceptable.

If you put the sticker next to the mirror mount on the passenger side, it will be invisible to the driver since it will be blocked by the mirror body.  I have my KTA sticker mounted in this place and I cannot see it at all unless I lean quite far out of my normal driving position.

One RFID sticker poses no special difficulties.  The trouble comes when you have to run multiple transponders for different toll agencies that do not yet have interoperability.  I am facing this situation right now:  I would like to go up to Chicago next month, and am thinking about setting up an I-Pass account and using a transponder since the northeastern Illinois toll system is quite expensive on a cash basis, infested with electronic-only exits, and has no convenient way to pay missed tolls online (the online facility that is available requires you to make separate payment for each missed toll, for which you are expected to record the time, location, and your license plate number).  I am not sure there is enough space on the driver's side of the mirror mount to place an I-Pass transponder so that it is invisible.

One thing I would like to know, but have not yet asked any toll agencies, is whether there is any special reason to avoid the sun strip as a mounting location.  If it is acceptable for use, then transponders on the sun strip on the passenger's side are unlikely to obstruct the driver's view of overhead signs or traffic signals.  The tinting is inside the windshield, so it is not damaged by using a razor or a solvent like naphtha to remove adhesive residue.

Quote from: Bobby5280 on May 26, 2016, 01:23:19 PM
What is the construction time line on that bypass and cloverleaf interchange? Is the project even funded?

According to the ODOT 8 Year Plan, ROW and Utilities are scheduled for FFY2018:

(https://c7.staticflickr.com/8/7689/27181408942_c7132cfdd2.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HpVPTL)2016-05-26_23-31-00 (https://flic.kr/p/HpVPTL) by rte66man (https://www.flickr.com/photos/rte66man/), on Flickr

Quote from: J N Winkler on May 26, 2016, 09:38:46 PM
I wouldn't hassle with masking tape, since that still leaves an air gap between the RFID sticker and the windshield and OTA advises that air bubbles between the sticker and windshield are enough to cause blown reads.

Our best friend mounts his PikePass this way exclusively, using it for his personal vehicle, the church bus, his work truck, other family members' vehicles.  Zero issues.

QuoteUnless the Mexicans have changed the design of their import stickers enormously in the last 13 years, the preferred location is the upper left corner of the windshield, which is where my stickers went.  This is not the location either OTA or KTA advise for RFID stickers, though OTA says it is acceptable.

The preferred mounting location for the import permit is immediately to the driver's side of the center mirror.  Because of the blue tinting on our car, I've already considered using the location you describe instead for better visibility; the downside is that, since those stickers leave substantial residue, I would need to work my way down instead of across for subsequent trips in order to maintain that visibility.

QuoteIf you put the sticker next to the mirror mount on the passenger side, it will be invisible to the driver since it will be blocked by the mirror body.  I have my KTA sticker mounted in this place and I cannot see it at all unless I lean quite far out of my normal driving position.

One RFID sticker poses no special difficulties.  The trouble comes when you have to run multiple transponders for different toll agencies that do not yet have interoperability.

Good.  I was wondering if the passenger side was acceptable.  Since the Mexican import stickers have a passive RFID inside, I would rather keep it as far-removed from the PikePass as possible, as the RFID in the import sticker registers time-stamps of our vehicle's movement at interior checkpoints and I wouldn't want to interfere with those transmissions.

QuoteI am facing this situation right now:  I would like to go up to Chicago next month, and am thinking about setting up an I-Pass account and using a transponder since the northeastern Illinois toll system is quite expensive on a cash basis, infested with electronic-only exits, and has no convenient way to pay missed tolls online (the online facility that is available requires you to make separate payment for each missed toll, for which you are expected to record the time, location, and your license plate number).  I am not sure there is enough space on the driver's side of the mirror mount to place an I-Pass transponder so that it is invisible.

It's been a long time since I lived in the Chicago area (moved away from there in 2006) but, back then, you could use the big clunky plastic I-Pass, keep it down in the center console when not in use, and then just hold it up to the windshield at toll gantries.  This was before they went to open-road tolling, and I don't know if the transponder technology has changed since then (I'm not tech-savvy).

QuoteOne thing I would like to know, but have not yet asked any toll agencies, is whether there is any special reason to avoid the sun strip as a mounting location.  If it is acceptable for use, then transponders on the sun strip on the passenger's side are unlikely to obstruct the driver's view of overhead signs or traffic signals.  The tinting is inside the windshield, so it is not damaged by using a razor or a solvent like naphtha to remove adhesive residue.

While it may not present a problem for toll gantries (I don't know either), my main concern is leaving room for the import stickers, and those need to be clearly visible to real-life police officers and immigration agents.

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Back to my work story from earlier...  Apparently, not all the toll violations incurred in our company vehicles were from transporting them from state to state.  The bills include up to a year's worth of toll violations, the great majority of which were incurred in Texas.  Yet those vehicles are now in Tulsa (OK) and Springdale (AR) inventory.  One even had violations adding up to about $60.  This is the kind of thing that makes me believe there should always be a cash option for all toll roads.

Quote from: kphoger on May 27, 2016, 10:30:27 AMOur best friend mounts his PikePass this way exclusively, using it for his personal vehicle, the church bus, his work truck, other family members' vehicles.  Zero issues.

What does he do about tape residue?

Quote from: kphoger on May 27, 2016, 10:30:27 AMThe preferred mounting location for the import permit is immediately to the driver's side of the center mirror.  Because of the blue tinting on our car, I've already considered using the location you describe instead for better visibility; the downside is that, since those stickers leave substantial residue, I would need to work my way down instead of across for subsequent trips in order to maintain that visibility.

I don't think they were using RFID back in 2001-02 or 2002-03.  It sounds like there have indeed been substantial changes.  I do remember the adhesive residue (that seems not to have changed), but naphtha will lift it unless it has had a lot of time to bake in the sun, in which case you probably have to use a razor blade as well.

Quote from: kphoger on May 27, 2016, 10:30:27 AMGood.  I was wondering if the passenger side was acceptable.  Since the Mexican import stickers have a passive RFID inside, I would rather keep it as far-removed from the PikePass as possible, as the RFID in the import sticker registers time-stamps of our vehicle's movement at interior checkpoints and I wouldn't want to interfere with those transmissions.

Multiple RFID stickers in the same location on the windshield won't interfere with each other.  In fact, OTA recommends you just mount stickers next to each other if you have to run multiple stickers (not an uncommon scenario for commercial vehicles).  The key considerations when choosing mounting location are avoiding sightline obscuration and locations where removal is likely to result in damage to surface coatings like anti-glare stippling.

Quote from: kphoger on May 27, 2016, 10:30:27 AMIt's been a long time since I lived in the Chicago area (moved away from there in 2006) but, back then, you could use the big clunky plastic I-Pass, keep it down in the center console when not in use, and then just hold it up to the windshield at toll gantries.  This was before they went to open-road tolling, and I don't know if the transponder technology has changed since then (I'm not tech-savvy).

I think the tech has changed, but I am not completely sure.  I-Pass has long advertised compatibility with EZ-Pass.  About ten years ago the norm for EZ-Pass transponders was a clunky hardshell case into which you had to load your own batteries (taking care to ensure they had enough juice not to result in blown reads, any toll violations resulting therefrom being your financial responsibility), and mount to the windshield using Velcro strips.  The current I-Pass comes in a slimline plastic case with adhesive backing on one side and does not require batteries, but does require removal from the windshield and mailing back to the Tollway in undamaged condition if you want a refund of the $20 deposit.

The old hardshell transponder with batteries was designed for transfer from vehicle to vehicle, so you could take it with you for business travel, but even then there were gotchas.  With the Illinois Tollway you had to register the license plate of the new vehicle pronto (an online facility was provided for this), otherwise reads with your transponder would not be accepted.  About ten years ago someone came on MTR to complain about being dinged by the Tollway for toll violations for not registering a car he borrowed to take down to Chicagoland with his transponder, and many of the replies implied he was a horrible human being for failing to make it his life's work to study the fine print in his Tollway contract and log on to register the plate of the borrowed car.  (In fairness, MTR had a tendency to bring out the worst in people.)  Nowadays the Tollway is not interested in your license plate number except in the context of paying a missed toll, and a transponder is no longer easily transferable from one vehicle to another once the backing has come off and it has gone onto the windshield.

Back in the old days, people tried to get away with not using the Velcro strips, and simply held the hardshell EZ-Pass transponder to the windshield.  Blown reads resulting from this were treated very unsympathetically by the Eastern toll road agencies (ISTR a Dr. Gridlock article in the Washington Post dealing with this issue).

Quote from: kphoger on May 27, 2016, 10:30:27 AMWhile it may not present a problem for toll gantries (I don't know either), my main concern is leaving room for the import stickers, and those need to be clearly visible to real-life police officers and immigration agents.

I think the play here is simply to ensure that the Mexican import sticker is visible to the naked eye (i.e., outside the sun strip, preferably in a location that does not conflict with a toll transponder or your view of overhead fixtures) and work out a procedure for 100% removal of residue so the same location can be reused, instead of having to have the sticker location "walk" along the windshield.

In the future, with full toll interoperability across the US, it should be possible to run just one toll transponder, but the progression will be messy in the next few years.  E.g., if I go ahead and get an I-Pass, and KTA and the Illinois Tollway set up reciprocity with a third toll agency but not with each other, and I then travel on that third agency's facilities, I will have to remove one transponder to avoid double billing, and then figure out how to reinstall it or order a replacement when I want to go back to using KTA and ISTHA facilities.

Quote from: kphoger on May 27, 2016, 10:30:27 AMBack to my work story from earlier...  Apparently, not all the toll violations incurred in our company vehicles were from transporting them from state to state.  The bills include up to a year's worth of toll violations, the great majority of which were incurred in Texas.  Yet those vehicles are now in Tulsa (OK) and Springdale (AR) inventory.  One even had violations adding up to about $60.  This is the kind of thing that makes me believe there should always be a cash option for all toll roads.

I think cash is on its way out permanently because, after a certain point, it will always be cheaper for toll agencies to adopt a forgiving policy toward online retroactive payment than to maintain 24/7 human staffing at each toll payment point.  Withdrawing union protection from toll collectors (a typical consequence of toll road privatization agreements, such as the Indiana Toll Road concession) merely delays this process.

I wonder if the violations on your work vehicles have anything to do with there being a longstanding expectation of no effective enforcement in Texas for out-of-state plates.  I have heard at least one story of people driving all over Austin on the toll roads on Kansas plates with no comeback.  This is obviously not sustainable over the long term, and Texas has so many toll operators that inevitably some will be more further along the curve in collecting from out-of-staters.

Quote from: J N Winkler on May 27, 2016, 11:51:49 AM

Quote from: kphoger on May 27, 2016, 10:30:27 AMOur best friend mounts his PikePass this way exclusively, using it for his personal vehicle, the church bus, his work truck, other family members' vehicles.  Zero issues.

What does he do about tape residue?

There's not much of a residue issue with masking tape, especially when it hasn't been stuck on for a long time.

QuoteI don't think they were using RFID back in 2001-02 or 2002-03.  It sounds like there have indeed been substantial changes.  I do remember the adhesive residue (that seems not to have changed), but naphtha will lift it unless it has had a lot of time to bake in the sun, in which case you probably have to use a razor blade as well.

The manufacturer of the RFIDs states on its website that this was implemented in 2001.  My only border crossing in 2001 was by taxi, and all the ones before that were only in the border zone (no importation required) or by commercial airline, so I have no personal experience with the stickers before 2006.  Some border agents keep a razor blade in the kiosk to hand you if needed to aid in removing the sticker, but there's always at least some residue left behind nonetheless.  If you know what to look for, you can occasionally find vehicles with multiple residue spots on the windshield for this reason; the neighbor three houses down from me, in fact, has as many as nine spots on his windshield–some barely visible and others a full rectangle.

QuoteMultiple RFID stickers in the same location on the windshield won't interfere with each other.  In fact, OTA recommends you just mount stickers next to each other if you have to run multiple stickers (not an uncommon scenario for commercial vehicles).  The key considerations when choosing mounting location are avoiding sightline obscuration and locations where removal is likely to result in damage to surface coatings like anti-glare stippling.

I think the play here is simply to ensure that the Mexican import sticker is visible to the naked eye (i.e., outside the sun strip, preferably in a location that does not conflict with a toll transponder or your view of overhead fixtures) and work out a procedure for 100% removal of residue so the same location can be reused, instead of having to have the sticker location "walk" along the windshield.

That's great to know.  Sight-line is my main consideration, and knowing that RFIDs can be placed next to each other will make things simpler for me.  I frankly prefer the old location (far upper—driver's side corner of the windshield) for the permit, since it's closest to police officers and border agents, but I suppose the desired location has been moved to near the mirror for the same reason as for toll tags:  visibility by gantries.  I wonder how much of a problem the bottom—driver's side corner is compared to top-center mounting, assuming my sticker locations will end up "walking" downward rather than laterally.

QuoteI wonder if the violations on your work vehicles have anything to do with there being a longstanding expectation of no effective enforcement in Texas for out-of-state plates.  I have heard at least one story of people driving all over Austin on the toll roads on Kansas plates with no comeback.  This is obviously not sustainable over the long term, and Texas has so many toll operators that inevitably some will be more further along the curve in collecting from out-of-staters.

We certainly used to operate under this premise.  Basically, all techs with work trucks plated in states other than Oklahoma or Texas had free reign on the toll roads, confident they would not receive any violations.  This is because the agency Texas contracted out to for toll collection didn't have agreements with any states except Oklahoma and Louisiana (as memory serves) for access to DMV information–i.e., they had no way of finding the personal information attached to a license plate number.  With interoperability now, I would no longer assume that to be true for Kansas, but it probably still remains true for other states.  But many of the trucks in question were Texas-plated, so I'm not sure why the violations were simply accrued for months before sending us the bill.

Before last year, my annual runs to México involved keeping money in a day pass account specific to the Camino Colombia (TX-255).  I would update vehicle information every year, depending on who was driving with us and what license plate numbers had changed.  Over the years, unbeknownst to me, gantries on that road recorded violations–I assume because I failed to update our info correctly or enough in advance.  But, our vehicles always being Kansas-plated, we never received any notice.  Two years ago, however, we used the new TX-130 bypass from Georgetown to Seguin.  A month or two after we got back home, we received the pay-by-mail bill, and–lo! and behold–there were charges included from previous years' violations on the Camino Colombia on both our vehicle and our friend's.  This makes me a little concerned that, if and when Texas gains access to other states' DMV information (such as Kansas), people will get bills in the mail from violations incurred years ago they thought they'd never be fined for.  I wonder if they store these violations in a database, and it's just a matter of time before they one day have a way of sending out the bills.

Quote from: kphoger on May 27, 2016, 01:41:03 PMThe manufacturer of the RFIDs states on its website that this was implemented in 2001.  My only border crossing in 2001 was by taxi, and all the ones before that were only in the border zone (no importation required) or by commercial airline, so I have no personal experience with the stickers before 2006.

I didn't photograph or dismantle a sticker on either of my visits to Mexico, but if they were using RFID back then, it was not anything like that used in current-generation KTA or OTA transponder stickers.  The import stickers were flat and were designed to tear if peeled off after an initial application to a windshield (apparently designed to prevent the same sticker from being used in multiple vehicles).  They might have been depleting outdated stock, or perhaps RFID was initially rolled out to vehicles other than private passenger cars.

Preferred mounting location for the import sticker back then was the driver's side upper corner (the first time I entered, the clerk walked out and applied the sticker there, I think so he could claim a M$20 "gratuity" away from the PGR poster in the Banjercito office saying that no gratuities were required and anyone asking for them should be reported).

The KTA transponder sticker (and, I presume, OTA's as well) has a hard bulge in the middle where the RFID chip sits.  Both agencies express a preference for center mounting, but OTA does not insist on it.  I suspect part of the purpose is to minimize the chance that a valid transponder read will be rejected because the sticker was not in the spatial envelope the vehicle overlaps when it goes under the gantry.

Quote from: kphoger on May 27, 2016, 01:41:03 PMSome border agents keep a razor blade in the kiosk to hand you if needed to aid in removing the sticker, but there's always at least some residue left behind nonetheless.

The worst case I had (which I could not really shift with naphtha) was after my second visit, but that was largely because I left the residue on for months before I attempted cleanup.  I think I got 100% of the residue from the first sticker with just naphtha.  I didn't try a razor blade on the residue I couldn't move; it might have allowed 100% removal but since I no longer own the car in question, I cannot run out and try it.

Quote from: kphoger on May 27, 2016, 01:41:03 PMI wonder how much of a problem the bottom—driver's side corner is compared to top-center mounting, assuming my sticker locations will end up "walking" downward rather than laterally.

I'd be concerned about blown reads if a RFID sticker transponder was mounted at the bottom of the windshield.  My first blown reads with the KTA sticker were with it sitting at the bottom of the windshield, backing side out, no tape affixing it to the windshield (I had first checked the defogger vent to verify that there is a screen preventing credit-card-sized objects from falling into the HVAC box).  Visibility to the gantry is the same as for locations further up the windshield, so I don't know if the sticker has to be above a certain level to generate a valid read, or the air gap between sticker and windshield was too large.

Quote from: kphoger on May 27, 2016, 01:41:03 PMBut many of the trucks in question were Texas-plated, so I'm not sure why the violations were simply accrued for months before sending us the bill.

I suspect it has to do with keeping collection expense per unpaid toll down.

Quote from: kphoger on May 27, 2016, 01:41:03 PMBefore last year, my annual runs to México involved keeping money in a day pass account specific to the Camino Colombia (TX-255).  I would update vehicle information every year, depending on who was driving with us and what license plate numbers had changed.  Over the years, unbeknownst to me, gantries on that road recorded violations–I assume because I failed to update our info correctly or enough in advance.  But, our vehicles always being Kansas-plated, we never received any notice.  Two years ago, however, we used the new TX-130 bypass from Georgetown to Seguin.  A month or two after we got back home, we received the pay-by-mail bill, and–lo! and behold–there were charges included from previous years' violations on the Camino Colombia on both our vehicle and our friend's.  This makes me a little concerned that, if and when Texas gains access to other states' DMV information (such as Kansas), people will get bills in the mail from violations incurred years ago they thought they'd never be fined for.  I wonder if they store these violations in a database, and it's just a matter of time before they one day have a way of sending out the bills.

My guess is that the toll agencies will try to collect as far back as they can, with as many fines as they can, and with as little opportunity as possible for the consumer to dispute alleged violations that are arguably a result of an agency's administrative error (such as not correctly attributing your vehicle and passenger information to the Camino Colombia account).  I don't foresee that this behavior will be curbed until the agencies are required to adhere to certain limits on collection procedure, including a provision for certain unpaid tolls to "age out" of violation so that consumers do not get surprise bills for tolls for which they no longer have the documentation to dispute.

I personally would never use a toll road in Texas on a bill-by-mail basis because there have been far too many horror stories of people being falsely billed (right license plate number, wrong state scenario) or receiving bills in the thousands of dollars for small numbers of unpaid tolls.

Quote from: J N Winkler on May 27, 2016, 04:09:50 PM
I didn't photograph or dismantle a sticker on either of my visits to Mexico, but if they were using RFID back then, it was not anything like that used in current-generation KTA or OTA transponder stickers.  The import stickers were flat and were designed to tear if peeled off after an initial application to a windshield (apparently designed to prevent the same sticker from being used in multiple vehicles).  They might have been depleting outdated stock, or perhaps RFID was initially rolled out to vehicles other than private passenger cars.

For what it's worth, here is a picture of our sticker from 2009.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1092.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi410%2Fkphoger%2FRFID_zpscv7dae2n.png&hash=fb25d086582f4577bcf6996fe3befe68b68d8630)

The current design is the same, just the colors seem to change periodically.  The RFID is not obvious, and I wasn't 100% sure without looking up more info that there's even one in there.  They are indeed flat and designed to tear when peeled off.  I suspect that you, as I, simply weren't aware there was circuitry in there.  I've even been told at the border that I needed to peel more residue off the windshield from the previous year's sticker before she would clear my vehicle for re-entry to the USA; apparently she was worried too much remaining would actually cause issues.

QuoteI personally would never use a toll road in Texas on a bill-by-mail basis because there have been far too many horror stories of people being falsely billed (right license plate number, wrong state scenario) or receiving bills in the thousands of dollars for small numbers of unpaid tolls.

But, unfortunately, that's the only option on some roads without signing up for TxTag.  With the Camino Colombia, we had the option to use a day pass account, but no such option exists for the southern portion of TX-130.  On that stretch of highway, it's either TxTag or pay-by-mail.  K-Tag and PikePass do not work that far south either.  There should always be a cash option.

Quote from: J N Winkler on May 27, 2016, 11:51:49 AM
I think the tech has changed, but I am not completely sure.  I-Pass has long advertised compatibility with EZ-Pass.  About ten years ago the norm for EZ-Pass transponders was a clunky hardshell case into which you had to load your own batteries (taking care to ensure they had enough juice not to result in blown reads, any toll violations resulting therefrom being your financial responsibility), and mount to the windshield using Velcro strips.  The current I-Pass comes in a slimline plastic case with adhesive backing on one side and does not require batteries, but does require removal from the windshield and mailing back to the Tollway in undamaged condition if you want a refund of the $20 deposit.

The old hardshell transponder with batteries was designed for transfer from vehicle to vehicle, so you could take it with you for business travel, but even then there were gotchas.  With the Illinois Tollway you had to register the license plate of the new vehicle pronto (an online facility was provided for this), otherwise reads with your transponder would not be accepted.  About ten years ago someone came on MTR to complain about being dinged by the Tollway for toll violations for not registering a car he borrowed to take down to Chicagoland with his transponder, and many of the replies implied he was a horrible human being for failing to make it his life's work to study the fine print in his Tollway contract and log on to register the plate of the borrowed car.  (In fairness, MTR had a tendency to bring out the worst in people.)  Nowadays the Tollway is not interested in your license plate number except in the context of paying a missed toll, and a transponder is no longer easily transferable from one vehicle to another once the backing has come off and it has gone onto the windshield.

Back in the old days, people tried to get away with not using the Velcro strips, and simply held the hardshell EZ-Pass transponder to the windshield.  Blown reads resulting from this were treated very unsympathetically by the Eastern toll road agencies (ISTR a Dr. Gridlock article in the Washington Post dealing with this issue).

It's changed slightly, but you're way off.  The transponder is still held to the windshield using dura-lock strips that allow for the transponder to be easily moved from vehicle to vehicle.  In fact, you can still register multiple vehicles with ISTHA for a single I-Pass.  The plate is need if the transponder is not read, not just because you have the vehicle (it's been that way since 2003, when I got a transponder).  if not read, but you have the plate on your account, you will get what is called a vToll.  In other words, a vToll is when the plate is matched to one of the ones you have registered on your account.  The really old transponder with loadable batteries is  from 2000 or before, and those have pretty much all been replaced.  Even the older Mark IV transponder is in the process of being replaced with a newer, slimmer model.

http://www.illinoistollway.com/tolls-and-i-pass/about-i-pass;jsessionid=DFBC44CB90E42D738EBCA258F4E85326

http://www.illinoistollway.com/tolls-and-i-pass/about-i-pass/i-pass-transponder

http://www.illinoistollway.com/documents/10157/66235/I-PASS+Owners+Manual.pdf

(There's a photo of the newest transponder on the Owner's Manual.)

Quote from: J N Winkler on May 27, 2016, 04:09:50 PM
The KTA transponder sticker (and, I presume, OTA's as well) has a hard bulge in the middle where the RFID chip sits.  Both agencies express a preference for center mounting, but OTA does not insist on it.  I suspect part of the purpose is to minimize the chance that a valid transponder read will be rejected because the sticker was not in the spatial envelope the vehicle overlaps when it goes under the gantry.

This actually caused me some misgivings about mounting it to the windshield:  I didn't want to damage the RFID inside the bulge, yet it's important to press firmly all over the sticker in order to mount it completely flat to the glass.  I took a test drive on the turnpike in advance of our trip last week just to be sure my tag worked.  I also figured, if mounting the thing were all that sensitive, then there'd be a LOT more fools out there with nonworking tags.

FWIW, here is how I mounted the PikePass and the Mexican import sticker.  Our friend has basically the same vehicle, and he mounted his inside the blue strip at the top.  Upon our cancellation of the permits heading north on Saturday, the border agent didn't say one word about that not being an acceptable location.  We never did encounter a police stop while in Mexico, though.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1092.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi410%2Fkphoger%2FPathfinder2_zpsmoah5b7s.jpg&hash=1d809df00895a91b4673c806e12dfc304647dfdc)

Quote from: kphoger on August 09, 2016, 02:27:31 PMThis actually caused me some misgivings about mounting it to the windshield:  I didn't want to damage the RFID inside the bulge, yet it's important to press firmly all over the sticker in order to mount it completely flat to the glass.  I took a test drive on the turnpike in advance of our trip last week just to be sure my tag worked.  I also figured, if mounting the thing were all that sensitive, then there'd be a LOT more fools out there with nonworking tags.

The chips are small enough (smaller than the tip of my little finger) that they are pretty hard to spindle without purposely attacking them with a tool.  They also have some padding from the thick plastic that encases them in the transponder.

When I first got my K-Tag back in April, I think the Southern Terminal still had swinging barriers across the K-Tag lanes.  As of my last transit on July 31 (as part of a day trip to Oklahoma City), they are gone in both directions.  The 20 limit is still signed but I have gotten good reads sailing through at 35.  In the southbound direction (not sure about northbound), there are now three signs mounted on the same post on the K-Tag lane approach:  the top one tells motorists to keep moving, the middle says "Tolling Video Enforced," and the bottom says "This Plaza."  I suspect barrier removal is going to be an ongoing process, though I don't recall seeing a schedule for it in any issue of the "Turnpike Times" e-newsletter that has come out in the last three months.

Quote from: kphoger on August 09, 2016, 02:27:31 PMFWIW, here is how I mounted the PikePass and the Mexican import sticker.  Our friend has basically the same vehicle, and he mounted his inside the blue strip at the top.  Upon our cancellation of the permits heading north on Saturday, the border agent didn't say one word about that not being an acceptable location.  We never did encounter a police stop while in Mexico, though.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1092.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi410%2Fkphoger%2FPathfinder2_zpsmoah5b7s.jpg&hash=1d809df00895a91b4673c806e12dfc304647dfdc)

I will try to remember to post a picture of the current layout of transponders in my roadtrip vehicle; it turns out the inside rearview mirror is large enough to hide both a K-Tag and an I-Pass from the driver's seat.  (The I-Pass, by the way, has worked quite well, except for one suspected blown read when I zipped through Plaza 37 at 40 instead of the posted 15 limit, and got a yellow flash instead of the usual blue flash.  However, when I checked my account later, I discovered that transit had been recorded, the correct toll had been deducted, and it was not a video toll, so the transponder read must have been good.)

Neither of the two Mexican temporary vehicle import stickers you have posted pictures of, from 2009 and 2016, look anything like the stickers I got in 2001 and 2002.  Those were square, not oblong, and were both smaller and of uniform density throughout.

Quote from: J N Winkler on August 10, 2016, 12:28:42 AM
I will try to remember to post a picture of the current layout of transponders in my roadtrip vehicle; it turns out the inside rearview mirror is large enough to hide both a K-Tag and an I-Pass from the driver's seat.  (The I-Pass, by the way, has worked quite well, except for one suspected blown read when I zipped through Plaza 37 at 40 instead of the posted 15 limit, and got a yellow flash instead of the usual blue flash.  However, when I checked my account later, I discovered that transit had been recorded, the correct toll had been deducted, and it was not a video toll, so the transponder read must have been good.)

The yellow means that you dipped slightly below $10 when the toll was recorded.  I've gotten the same from time to time.  By the time you reached the next toll plaza, the amount you requested to be added as charged to your card on file (typically $20 or $40 - mine is set at $40).

Quote from: Brandon on August 10, 2016, 01:20:23 PMThe yellow means that you dipped slightly below $10 when the toll was recorded.  I've gotten the same from time to time.  By the time you reached the next toll plaza, the amount you requested to be added as charged to your card on file (typically $20 or $40 - mine is set at $40).

That can't have been the reason here, since I have yet to trigger replenishment.  I opened the account with $30 ($10 transponder deposit plus $20 available for tolls), set the replenishment threshold at $10, and did no more than $9.15 worth of driving on Tollway infrastructure while I was in Chicago.

Quote from: J N Winkler on August 10, 2016, 12:28:42 AM
When I first got my K-Tag back in April, I think the Southern Terminal still had swinging barriers across the K-Tag lanes.  As of my last transit on July 31 (as part of a day trip to Oklahoma City), they are gone in both directions.  The 20 limit is still signed but I have gotten good reads sailing through at 35.  In the southbound direction (not sure about northbound), there are now three signs mounted on the same post on the K-Tag lane approach:  the top one tells motorists to keep moving, the middle says "Tolling Video Enforced," and the bottom says "This Plaza."  I suspect barrier removal is going to be an ongoing process, though I don't recall seeing a schedule for it in any issue of the "Turnpike Times" e-newsletter that has come out in the last three months.

The same "Video Tolling enforced" signs are present eastbound at the Eastern Terminal. However, all 20 MPH signing has been removed heading east, making for an implied 35 MPH zone through the K-TAG lane. However, the westbound K-TAG lane does not indicate video enforced tolling and, although the gates are not present, there is still a 20 MPH limit.

It's been a while since I checked East Topeka, but I think there are no video enforced lanes and the K-TAG lanes are 20 MPH in both directions.

Multiple RFID tags on a windshield shouldn't be a problem....unless more than one is valid for paying the toll, in which case you run the risk of double billing. But an I-Pass tag with Florida SunPass and TxTag stickers is not a problem. If the Texas toll lane reads the Florida transponder, it is "junk" data that is basically ignored. The Texas tag will be read simultaneously and will process as a valid toll payment.

But when FL and Texas go interoperable, then pick one account and close the other.

Quote from: mtantillo on August 22, 2016, 01:32:39 AM
Multiple RFID tags on a windshield shouldn't be a problem....

At one time I had both a TxTag and a PikePass sticker on my car. The PikePass instruction sheet said that as long as the stickers weren't touching I was good-to-go.

Back in the day, there used to be a problem with multiple transponders. In the early days of E-ZPass, the system was programmed to only look for one transponder per vehicle. If the first transponder it detected was a Virginia Smart Tag (from the days before interop between those two systems), it would return an invalid result and trigger a violation, and would never 'look again' for another valid transponder. So I specifically remember guidance from Smart Tag telling customers to put their E-ZPass away when in VA and put their Smart Tag away when in E-ZPass territory if you had both. But technology is advanced enough now where this type of malfunction no longer occurs.

If I recall correctly, if you have both a NTTA Toll Tag and a OK Pike Pass you'll get double charged driving on the managed lanes on Dallas Fort Worth super highways. I don't know how Texas' 3 different toll tags work together or conflict with each other (or with OK Pike Pass). If I had a TX Tag sticker I could drive on a lot more toll roads in Texas, but not all of them (a couple in Houston take only the HCTRA tags). But I still might get double billed driving in Dallas since TX Tag and Pike Pass both get dinged on DFW toll roads.

These new sticker-based RFID tags can't be removed from a windshield without damaging them once they're applied to the glass. It's not like the old days with the soap bar style Pike Pass transponders that were much easier to put away when not needed.

Even if OTA, NTTA and other agencies can get their toll gates to properly read multiple tags on a windshield and bill correctly for them, I'm still 100% for simplifying everything down to where a driver needs only one tag for any toll road. Having a bunch of sticker spam/trash cluttering the center of a windshield is stupid. The visual garbage on the glass needs to be kept down to a minimum. Needing to have only one tag also translates into needing to maintain only one turnpike account.

All of the Texas tags are accepted on all toll roads in Texas, including oddballs like the Camino Colombia and the express lanes in El Paso. They may or may not actually be signed as such, but they still work.

But not all highway tolls, I still should point out. AFAIK, no tags are accepted at border bridges.

Quote from: kphoger on August 22, 2016, 10:22:36 PM
But not all highway tolls, I still should point out. AFAIK, no tags are accepted at border bridges.

There is a "Laredo Trade Tag," which I gather is popular with drayage haulers (the Mexican truckers who haul stuff from Mexican terminals into the border zone for transshipment on US/Canadian trucks) and is required for access to the SENTRI lane at Bridge 2. Apparently there's some way to get it associated with a TxTag account but web-accessible information is scarce.

Quote from: lordsutch on August 22, 2016, 11:01:31 PM

Quote from: kphoger on August 22, 2016, 10:22:36 PM
But not all highway tolls, I still should point out. AFAIK, no tags are accepted at border bridges.

There is a "Laredo Trade Tag," which I gather is popular with drayage haulers (the Mexican truckers who haul stuff from Mexican terminals into the border zone for transshipment on US/Canadian trucks) and is required for access to the SENTRI lane at Bridge 2. Apparently there's some way to get it associated with a TxTag account but web-accessible information is scarce.

Information on the subject may be scarce, but the following is quite pertinent:

Quote from: TxTag – Camino Colombia – Frequently Asked QuestionsIf you open a TxTag account, you should not install the TxTag sticker if you have a Laredo Trade Tag on your windshield.

There's news on this topic, and a whole lot more regarding the rest of the South and even EZPassland.
https://communityimpact.com/austin/city-county/2017/05/31/txtag-now-works-kansas-highlights-wednesdays-central-texas-toll-agency-meeting/ (https://communityimpact.com/austin/city-county/2017/05/31/txtag-now-works-kansas-highlights-wednesdays-central-texas-toll-agency-meeting/)

Quote from: wxfree on June 01, 2017, 04:06:32 PM
There's news on this topic, and a whole lot more regarding the rest of the South and even EZPassland.
https://communityimpact.com/austin/city-county/2017/05/31/txtag-now-works-kansas-highlights-wednesdays-central-texas-toll-agency-meeting/ (https://communityimpact.com/austin/city-county/2017/05/31/txtag-now-works-kansas-highlights-wednesdays-central-texas-toll-agency-meeting/)

There's a partial misstatement in the article:

Quote
Within the next few months, Texas toll transponders can also be used to pay for tolls on Oklahoma toll roads and vice versa, Reilly said.

from Pikepass.com:

Quote
24. When can I use my PIKEPASS transponder in North Texas and will the NTTA Sticker TollTag transponder work on Oklahoma turnpikes?
Yes. Beginning August 10, 2014 the Oklahoma Turnpike Authority (OTA) will be interoperable with the North Texas Toll Authority (NTTA). After that date your PIKEPASS will work in North Texas and your NTTA Sticker TollTag will work in Oklahoma.

26. Where in Oklahoma can I use my NTTA Sticker TollTag transponder?
Starting August 10th, 2014 you can use your NTTA Sticker TollTag transponder on all ten (10) Oklahoma Turnpike Authority (OTA) turnpikes. These include: Turner, Will Rogers, H.E. Bailey, Indian Nation, Muskogee, Cimarron, John Kilpatrick, Cherokee, Creek and Chickasaw. Your NTTA account must be in good standing to qualify for Interoperability on OTA roads.

I've used my Pikepass extensively in Dallas with no problems.  The article should have clarified exactly which transponders would be interoperable.

Quote from: rte66man on June 02, 2017, 09:34:41 AMI've used my Pikepass extensively in Dallas with no problems.  The article should have clarified exactly which transponders would be interoperable.

It seemed to me that the article plays a little fast and loose with interoperability outside Texas, but it does confirm that PikePass does not have full interoperability with all Texas transponder providers, which comes as a surprise to me since I would have assumed that getting interoperability with Oklahoma (population 5 million) would have been a higher priority than with Kansas (population 3 million).

I don't see how interoperability with E-ZPassland (nice coinage, BTW!) can happen "within a year or two" unless the E-ZPass agencies are already poised to install dual-mode readers or are planning to use video tolling exclusively for all out-of-staters with incompatible transponders (a scary prospect given the "right number, wrong state" errors turned up by the current OCR setups).

I don't know why it is taking so long for OTA to get the details settled with CTRMA and HCTRA so PikePass can work with toll roads in Austin, Houston and the rest of the state. I wish they would get this process finished already. PikePass has worked on NTTA toll roads in DFW for nearly 3 years.

In the article Tim Reilly of CTRMA said the overall goal of every toll agency is accepting a transponder that every other toll road agency uses. They need to agree on an overall compatible standard. Unfortunately that will mean some toll road agencies will have to completely replace transponders on customer vehicles and toll tag readers. OTA has already done this previously with PikePass. I still remember the old soap bar looking transponders.

Not to split hairs, but Oklahoma's population (2016 Census estimate) is 3.911 million.

Quote from: J N Winkler on June 02, 2017, 10:22:14 AM

Quote from: rte66man on June 02, 2017, 09:34:41 AMI've used my Pikepass extensively in Dallas with no problems.  The article should have clarified exactly which transponders would be interoperable.

It seemed to me that the article plays a little fast and loose with interoperability outside Texas, but it does confirm that PikePass does not have full interoperability with all Texas transponder providers, which comes as a surprise to me since I would have assumed that getting interoperability with Oklahoma (population 5 million) would have been a higher priority than with Kansas (population 3 million).

I don't see how interoperability with E-ZPassland (nice coinage, BTW!) can happen "within a year or two" unless the E-ZPass agencies are already poised to install dual-mode readers or are planning to use video tolling exclusively for all out-of-staters with incompatible transponders (a scary prospect given the "right number, wrong state" errors turned up by the current OCR setups).

I know that ISTHA has been experimenting with gantries over the road for the collection of non-EZ Pass tolls.

This month's Texas Transportation Commission meeting agenda includes some news on this front:

"Consider authorizing the department to enter into an agreement with other governmental entities related to the interoperability of toll collection systems
MAP-21 requires that all toll facilities on federal-aid highways implement technologies or business practices that provide for the interoperability of electronic toll collection programs. This minute order authorizes the execution of an agreement between the department and the North Texas Tollway Authority, Harris County, the Central Texas Regional Mobility Authority, the Fort Bend Grand Parkway Toll Road Authority, the Kansas Turnpike Authority, the Oklahoma Turnpike Authority, and the Florida Turnpike Enterprise. The agreement will address the interoperability of toll collection transponders through the use of the Southeast US Interoperability Hub and the Central US Interoperability Hub."

Apparently the agencies are at the stage of executing the agreement.  There's also mention of hubs I've never heard of.  I assume they're new and are established by the agreement.  When the minute orders are put online, which usually happens on Monday, I'll read through the agreement, which I'm pretty sure has to be attached to the minute order, and learn about those hubs.  I'll bring any interesting news, and a link to read it, here.

(I'll check the web sites of the other agencies involved to see if I can find it now.)

This was discussed at the last CTRMA meeting.  It was explained that interoperability is already in place between Kansas and all of Texas, and will be in place soon with Oklahoma.  Also, tying in with Florida will open up North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, and Louisiana.  That's expected early next year.  E-Z Pass was also discussed.  They have a different system and don't use a hub.  They're looking at how to make their system more connectable.

It's Item 11B
https://mobilityauthority.swagit.com/play/05312017-546 (https://mobilityauthority.swagit.com/play/05312017-546)

2013-ish there was a story on Toll Road News that TxTag and PikePass were planning to have interoperability in place by "the end of next year", but said interoperability plan appears to have sunk without a trace. I emailed both OTA and TxDOT asking what happened, but never got any answer. I finally cancelled my PikePass and TxTag accounts and picked up a TollTag from NTTA when OTA and NTTA made their interop agreement a couple of years ago. The NTTA tag works throughout Texas as it is, and once it worked in Oklahoma that was all I really needed. Don't go into Kansas anymore, so OTA's agreement with the Kansas Turnpike folks doesn't concern me.

There isn't exactly an excess of information.  The SE US IOP Hub is run by Florida's Turnpike Enterprise.  I haven't found any specific documents about it.  The C US IOP Hub was established last year.  It appears to be run by NTTA with other members being TxDOT, CTRMA, HCTRA, and FBGPTRA (Fort Bend [County] Grand Parkway Toll Road Authority) in Texas as well as OTA and KTA.  NTTA's web site has a section for documents, where the agreement can be found.  The agreement seems to have been finalized more than a year ago, but full function is not yet in place.

The agreement nullifies the peer-to-peer arrangements between KTA and OTA and between NTTA and OTA, as well as transitioning from the Texas IOP Hub to the C US IOP Hub, which covers everyone.   NTTA provides software maintenance, and HCTRA provides hardware maintenance.  This suggests that NTTA provides the electronic operation on HCTRA's computers in Houston, with physical maintenance performed there.  There is an additional fee paid to HCTRA to cover that cost.  There's also a transaction fee of 5 cents plus 3% of the toll amount paid to the tag-issuing authority when a tag is used on another authority's road, to cover processing costs.  These little details are interesting to me.  The full agreement is at the link.

https://www.ntta.org/newsresources/Documents/Miscellaneous/Interop%20ILA%20with%20Kansas%20and%20Oklahoma.pdf (https://www.ntta.org/newsresources/Documents/Miscellaneous/Interop%20ILA%20with%20Kansas%20and%20Oklahoma.pdf)

Quote from: wxfree on June 28, 2017, 11:08:40 PM
There is an additional fee paid to HCTRA to cover that cost.  There's also a transaction fee of 5 cents plus 3% of the toll amount paid to the tag-issuing authority when a tag is used on another authority's road, to cover processing costs.

Sounds like they have transponder discrimination baked-in.  And to think I thought that interoperability meant that people wouldn't have to deal with surcharges and fees (as one would for bill by mail).

Quote from: vdeane on June 29, 2017, 12:36:43 PMSounds like they have transponder discrimination baked-in.  And to think I thought that interoperability meant that people wouldn't have to deal with surcharges and fees (as one would for bill by mail).

Actually, no, there is no transponder discrimination, despite that provision.  The contract says specifically that interoperability means the customer is charged the same electronic toll rate regardless of (1) transponder type or (2) who issued the transponder.

In principle each party to the agreement could eat the net cost of foreign travel (travel on its network by vehicles with transponders issued by other parties), but in actuality I suspect there will be some cost recovery through fees for portable transponders (KTA and OTA both charge for hardshell transponders that can be moved from vehicle to vehicle; only the sticker-type transponders that become inoperable when pulled off windshields are free of charge) and also adjustment of electronic toll rates to offset the burden of foreign travel, if that settles down to a consistent percentage from year to year.

Edit:  Since, however, the agreement apparently supersedes existing peer agreements between KTA and OTA, and between various pairs of the Texas toll agencies, I can see some toll agencies working harder to market the convenience advantages of obtaining a transponder locally rather than from an agency in another state.  E.g., for KTA it is desirable for a given Kansas resident to have a K-Tag rather than a PikePass, since when that Kansas resident uses the Kansas Turnpike, KTA gets the whole electronic toll rather than the electronic toll minus the five cents minus the 3% of the gross toll required to access the payment data from OTA through the interoperability hub.

It actually works to KTA's disadvantage that OTA had interoperability with TollTag before KTA did, because that created an incentive for Kansas residents to get PikePass instead of K-Tag to cover trips down to DFW, and once a PikePass account is set up, it is a hassle to close it down just to establish a K-Tag account.

And now we have the Central and Southeast agreement.  Like the Central agreement, it includes a "nondiscriminatory and seamless" provision, meaning that tolls are the same regardless of which transponder is used and that no action is required by drivers to use different road systems.  There is a limitation in that some authorities can't read 6C tags.  If those authorities don't adapt their tag readers or have camera systems to read license plates they will request the 6C issuing authorities to inform their users that interoperability does not apply to that authority's roads.

While non-governmental entities cannot be a party to the agreement, the SE Hub allows them to "participate in the benefits of and be responsible for the obligations under" the agreement by contracting directly with FTE.  Entities in other states can join either hub only if they're in a state within which another member of that hub resides or are in a state in which no other toll authority is a member of a different hub, in order to prevent overlap.  The transaction fee is 3% of the toll amount.  This applies only to transactions between the hubs.  Within each hub the amount is determined by the existing arrangement.

https://www.mobilityauthority.com/upload/files/board_meetings/2017-06-28/8_1_FINAL_AIS_Interoperability_Agreement_(TR).pdf (https://www.mobilityauthority.com/upload/files/board_meetings/2017-06-28/8_1_FINAL_AIS_Interoperability_Agreement_(TR).pdf)

Quote from: J N Winkler on June 29, 2017, 01:13:36 PM
Edit:  Since, however, the agreement apparently supersedes existing peer agreements between KTA and OTA, and between various pairs of the Texas toll agencies, I can see some toll agencies working harder to market the convenience advantages of obtaining a transponder locally rather than from an agency in another state.  E.g., for KTA it is desirable for a given Kansas resident to have a K-Tag rather than a PikePass, since when that Kansas resident uses the Kansas Turnpike, KTA gets the whole electronic toll rather than the electronic toll minus the five cents minus the 3% of the gross toll required to access the payment data from OTA through the interoperability hub.

As an interesting side note, in the original agreement between NTTA and HCTRA in 2003, before anyone else was involved, it was required that new accounts not be opened for someone in a ZIP code logically associated with the other authority.  Meaning that NTTA could not open a TollTag account for someone in the Houston area, and HCTRA could not open an EZ TAG account for someone in the DFW area.

Quote from: J N Winkler on May 27, 2016, 04:09:50 PM

Quote from: kphoger on May 27, 2016, 01:41:03 PMThe manufacturer of the RFIDs states on its website that this was implemented in 2001.  My only border crossing in 2001 was by taxi, and all the ones before that were only in the border zone (no importation required) or by commercial airline, so I have no personal experience with the stickers before 2006.

I didn't photograph or dismantle a sticker on either of my visits to Mexico, but if they were using RFID back then, it was not anything like that used in current-generation KTA or OTA transponder stickers.  The import stickers were flat and were designed to tear if peeled off after an initial application to a windshield (apparently designed to prevent the same sticker from being used in multiple vehicles).  They might have been depleting outdated stock, or perhaps RFID was initially rolled out to vehicles other than private passenger cars.

Preferred mounting location for the import sticker back then was the driver's side upper corner (the first time I entered, the clerk walked out and applied the sticker there, I think so he could claim a M$20 "gratuity" away from the PGR poster in the Banjercito office saying that no gratuities were required and anyone asking for them should be reported).

The KTA transponder sticker (and, I presume, OTA's as well) has a hard bulge in the middle where the RFID chip sits.  Both agencies express a preference for center mounting, but OTA does not insist on it.  I suspect part of the purpose is to minimize the chance that a valid transponder read will be rejected because the sticker was not in the spatial envelope the vehicle overlaps when it goes under the gantry.

Quote from: kphoger on May 27, 2016, 01:41:03 PMSome border agents keep a razor blade in the kiosk to hand you if needed to aid in removing the sticker, but there's always at least some residue left behind nonetheless.

The worst case I had (which I could not really shift with naphtha) was after my second visit, but that was largely because I left the residue on for months before I attempted cleanup.  I think I got 100% of the residue from the first sticker with just naphtha.  I didn't try a razor blade on the residue I couldn't move; it might have allowed 100% removal but since I no longer own the car in question, I cannot run out and try it.

Quote from: kphoger on May 27, 2016, 01:41:03 PMI wonder how much of a problem the bottom—driver's side corner is compared to top-center mounting, assuming my sticker locations will end up "walking" downward rather than laterally.

I'd be concerned about blown reads if a RFID sticker transponder was mounted at the bottom of the windshield.  My first blown reads with the KTA sticker were with it sitting at the bottom of the windshield, backing side out, no tape affixing it to the windshield (I had first checked the defogger vent to verify that there is a screen preventing credit-card-sized objects from falling into the HVAC box).  Visibility to the gantry is the same as for locations further up the windshield, so I don't know if the sticker has to be above a certain level to generate a valid read, or the air gap between sticker and windshield was too large.

Quote from: kphoger on May 27, 2016, 01:41:03 PMBut many of the trucks in question were Texas-plated, so I'm not sure why the violations were simply accrued for months before sending us the bill.

I suspect it has to do with keeping collection expense per unpaid toll down.

Quote from: kphoger on May 27, 2016, 01:41:03 PMBefore last year, my annual runs to México involved keeping money in a day pass account specific to the Camino Colombia (TX-255).  I would update vehicle information every year, depending on who was driving with us and what license plate numbers had changed.  Over the years, unbeknownst to me, gantries on that road recorded violations–I assume because I failed to update our info correctly or enough in advance.  But, our vehicles always being Kansas-plated, we never received any notice.  Two years ago, however, we used the new TX-130 bypass from Georgetown to Seguin.  A month or two after we got back home, we received the pay-by-mail bill, and–lo! and behold–there were charges included from previous years' violations on the Camino Colombia on both our vehicle and our friend's.  This makes me a little concerned that, if and when Texas gains access to other states' DMV information (such as Kansas), people will get bills in the mail from violations incurred years ago they thought they'd never be fined for.  I wonder if they store these violations in a database, and it's just a matter of time before they one day have a way of sending out the bills.

My guess is that the toll agencies will try to collect as far back as they can, with as many fines as they can, and with as little opportunity as possible for the consumer to dispute alleged violations that are arguably a result of an agency's administrative error (such as not correctly attributing your vehicle and passenger information to the Camino Colombia account).  I don't foresee that this behavior will be curbed until the agencies are required to adhere to certain limits on collection procedure, including a provision for certain unpaid tolls to "age out" of violation so that consumers do not get surprise bills for tolls for which they no longer have the documentation to dispute.

I personally would never use a toll road in Texas on a bill-by-mail basis because there have been far too many horror stories of people being falsely billed (right license plate number, wrong state scenario) or receiving bills in the thousands of dollars for small numbers of unpaid tolls.

Update to this tangential side-topic:

Mexico, as of this year, has discontinued the use of all windshield stickers (RFID or otherwise) in conjunction with vehicle importation.  All you get is the document, no sticker to mount or remove later.