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Author Topic: Sports teams and their effects on cities' reputations  (Read 5490 times)

Desert Man

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Re: Sports teams and their effects on cities' reputations
« Reply #50 on: September 04, 2018, 06:32:25 PM »

I recall Yuma had major league baseball spring training just like Palm Springs did in the 1990s (when a Japanese pro team the Yakult Swallows' held a spring training camp in Yuma).

Didn't the SD Padres train in Yuma during the '70s and into the '80s?

ixnay

Yes , the Padres did from 1969 to 92, and moved their facility to the Phoenix metro area. The then California Angels in Palm Springs from 1961 to 92 as well went to Arizona (Tempe). Ironically, the L.A. Dodgers spring training site was Vero Beach, Fla. from the 1940s when they were in Brooklyn to 2008 when the facility moved west to be closer to SoCal (Glendale, AZ).
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english si

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Re: Sports teams and their effects on cities' reputations
« Reply #51 on: September 05, 2018, 09:44:57 AM »

For example, Leeds is one of the largest cities in England by population (though the method is always in dispute) but its lack of a Premier League club (thanks to 20+ years of decline) has led international fans to have little knowledge of the place.
They've not been out of it that long (2004). And were Champions League semi-finalists this century just before the start of the decade-long (not 20 years - not least as that would last until 2022 and unless you have a crystal ball...) decline. Nottingham Forest have been gone longer (1999), and certainly Nottingham is on the same tier as Leeds when it comes to UK cities.

Bristol is the best example though, as they don't particularly have any good teams in popular leagues - OK, the Bears Rugby Union team got promoted to the top tier league last year, so we'll hear about their exploits, but the other teams are either semi-pro (or amateur) sports, or in the second tier at best.

There's a reason why you picked Leeds rather than better examples - because you are aware of the city from the football, which kind of defeats the point you are trying to make about Leeds, but proves the general point.
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The Premier League presence in places like Blackburn, Watford, Brighton, and West Bromwich have inflated their importance to the international audience, despite being somewhat middling cities.
Other than them all being towns, not cities (though Brighton and Hove has city status).... Also, Brighton is the functional centre of the 15th largest urban area (and also 15th largest metropolitan area) in the UK, and Blackburn half of the 22nd largest metropolitan area with Burnley.

Watford and West Bromwich could be treated as London and Birmingham clubs respectively (albeit controversially so in those places, especially West Brom) - certainly they serve relatively big and populated hinterlands (NW London and the NW bit of the commuter belt, and the Black Country, respectively).

We have teams for Everton, Aston Villa, Queen's Park Rangers, Charlton, etc that are settlements that were never even towns! And Crystal Palace was a building (built for the 1851 Great Exhibition) that they moved to a new park on what was then the edge of London before it burnt down in the 1930s!

And, of course, don't forget that the English Football league system is based on merit, not franchises (MK Dons controversy excepted). Theoretically, if they win their division 10 years in a row and build a stadium that complies with league rules as they get promoted, then the tiny team that Paul Scholes played for at the weekend would be in the Premier League.

----

There's always stuff that inflates/dampens cities' importance. Oxford and Cambridge aren't especially big, and Durham is pretty small (and St Andrews tiny), but history and famous Universities inflate their importance. Edinburgh will be the most popular answer to 'name a city in Scotland', though Glasgow is bigger, because Edinburgh has the cultural and political importance.

Watford (my place of birth) is inflated in importance compared to Wycombe (which hits par for its size), despite being similar in size and location, as Watford is on the more major railway, has significantly superior retail options, is signed from further away, has a better football team (both lost their successful Premiership Rugby clubs, which ground-shared with the football teams about 10 years ago), etc.

And people underestimate Bournemouth's size - the Premier League team has put it on the map, but because half it's nearly 500k urban area is in different towns (Poole, Christchurch), it seems less important. Plus it's tucked away, not particular on the way to anywhere, but not at an extreme end of the country (cf Plymouth, Aberdeen, Exeter, etc) and hidden by the presence of Southampton. It's not some historically important place, nor some big player in academia or industry or whatever, nor somewhere people pass through to go to other places, so people aren't as aware of it.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2018, 09:57:29 AM by english si »
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english si

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Re: Sports teams and their effects on cities' reputations
« Reply #52 on: September 05, 2018, 09:56:53 AM »

Green Bay has the Packers promoting their brand, so they punch big for an urban area (much bigger than I expected) of 206,520.

Brighton has an urban area of 474,485 (just smaller than Edinburgh, and a bit bigger than Cardiff), though it does spread for some distance along the coast, diluting it a bit.

Blackburn has an urban area of 146,521. Other previously Premier League Lancastrian towns (and one present one) include Burnley (149,422), Blackpool (239,409)* and Wigan (175,405). Accrington (of the 'Accrington Stanley, who are they?' milk ads of the 80s talking about how mediocre their football team is) and its wider urban area between Blackburn and Burnley is surprisingly 125,059 people - I'd have guessed about 80k-tops!

*though Blackpool is known far more as a resort - it's England's Atlantic City/Vegas place.
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ixnay

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Re: Sports teams and their effects on cities' reputations
« Reply #53 on: September 08, 2018, 07:25:45 PM »

Green Bay has the Packers promoting their brand, so they punch big for an urban area (much bigger than I expected) of 206,520.

Brighton has an urban area of 474,485 (just smaller than Edinburgh, and a bit bigger than Cardiff), though it does spread for some distance along the coast, diluting it a bit.

Blackburn has an urban area of 146,521. Other previously Premier League Lancastrian towns (and one present one) include Burnley (149,422), Blackpool (239,409)* and Wigan (175,405). Accrington (of the 'Accrington Stanley, who are they?' milk ads of the 80s talking about how mediocre their football team is) and its wider urban area between Blackburn and Burnley is surprisingly 125,059 people - I'd have guessed about 80k-tops!

*though Blackpool is known far more as a resort - it's England's Atlantic City/Vegas place.

Regarding the population figures...  the U.S. takes its census every ten years (in the years ending in zero) with annual estimates in the interim.  Canada IIRC takes its census in the years ending in 1 and 6.  How often does the UK take a population count?

ixnay
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Re: Sports teams and their effects on cities' reputations
« Reply #54 on: September 08, 2018, 08:55:54 PM »

Regarding the population figures...  the U.S. takes its census every ten years (in the years ending in zero) with annual estimates in the interim.  Canada IIRC takes its census in the years ending in 1 and 6.  How often does the UK take a population count?

ixnay

Every 10 years, ending in 1.
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mgk920

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Re: Sports teams and their effects on cities' reputations
« Reply #55 on: September 09, 2018, 10:11:16 AM »

Green Bay has the Packers promoting their brand, so they punch big for an urban area (much bigger than I expected) of 206,520.

Brighton has an urban area of 474,485 (just smaller than Edinburgh, and a bit bigger than Cardiff), though it does spread for some distance along the coast, diluting it a bit.

Blackburn has an urban area of 146,521. Other previously Premier League Lancastrian towns (and one present one) include Burnley (149,422), Blackpool (239,409)* and Wigan (175,405). Accrington (of the 'Accrington Stanley, who are they?' milk ads of the 80s talking about how mediocre their football team is) and its wider urban area between Blackburn and Burnley is surprisingly 125,059 people - I'd have guessed about 80k-tops!

*though Blackpool is known far more as a resort - it's England's Atlantic City/Vegas place.

And I have been firmly believing for many years now that if it were not for the Packers, the Green Bay area would be a clone of Duluth, MN, basically an unattractive industrial/port (oceangoing ships call via the Saint Lawrence Seaway) pit of a city, while the commercial and cultural center of northeast Wisconsin would be nearby Appleton (my hometown), a twin metro area to Green Bay.

BTW, The Green Bay Packers begin their 100th season of play with their 197th meeting v. the Chicago Bears at Lambeau Field this evening.  As of right now, the Packers lead the series 96-6-94.

:cool:

Mike
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MantyMadTown

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Re: Sports teams and their effects on cities' reputations
« Reply #56 on: September 09, 2018, 11:49:41 AM »

Green Bay has the Packers promoting their brand, so they punch big for an urban area (much bigger than I expected) of 206,520.

Brighton has an urban area of 474,485 (just smaller than Edinburgh, and a bit bigger than Cardiff), though it does spread for some distance along the coast, diluting it a bit.

Blackburn has an urban area of 146,521. Other previously Premier League Lancastrian towns (and one present one) include Burnley (149,422), Blackpool (239,409)* and Wigan (175,405). Accrington (of the 'Accrington Stanley, who are they?' milk ads of the 80s talking about how mediocre their football team is) and its wider urban area between Blackburn and Burnley is surprisingly 125,059 people - I'd have guessed about 80k-tops!

*though Blackpool is known far more as a resort - it's England's Atlantic City/Vegas place.

And I have been firmly believing for many years now that if it were not for the Packers, the Green Bay area would be a clone of Duluth, MN, basically an unattractive industrial/port (oceangoing ships call via the Saint Lawrence Seaway) pit of a city, while the commercial and cultural center of northeast Wisconsin would be nearby Appleton (my hometown), a twin metro area to Green Bay.

BTW, The Green Bay Packers begin their 100th season of play with their 197th meeting v. the Chicago Bears at Lambeau Field this evening.  As of right now, the Packers lead the series 96-6-94.

:cool:

Mike

Well it's basically true. I don't think Green Bay would've becoming the city it is today without the Packers. In a way, they've pretty much made the city the way it is.
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english si

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Re: Sports teams and their effects on cities' reputations
« Reply #57 on: September 09, 2018, 05:00:50 PM »

BTW, The Green Bay Packers begin their 100th season of play with their 197th meeting v. the Chicago Bears at Lambeau Field this evening.  As of right now, the Packers lead the series 96-6-94.
Similarly (though had remembered the Steel City before I saw this post about an old team) Sheffield United enter their 130th season, and Sheffield Wednesday their 152nd. Only played each other competitively 129 times though. Only twice-per-season for the league, and relegation/promotion meaning that only happens some years...

I forgot about them (United last in Premier League 06-07, Wednesday 99-00) when talking about big cities without recent Premier League teams. Whoops!
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TheHighwayMan394

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Re: Sports teams and their effects on cities' reputations
« Reply #58 on: September 09, 2018, 05:37:46 PM »

And I have been firmly believing for many years now that if it were not for the Packers, the Green Bay area would be a clone of Duluth, MN, basically an unattractive industrial/port (oceangoing ships call via the Saint Lawrence Seaway) pit of a city

Mike

Was the last time you visited Duluth 1985?
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