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Author Topic: Pennsylvania  (Read 437907 times)

Roadsguy

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1900 on: October 25, 2021, 07:36:36 PM »

The I 78 bridge here is only 36 years old, I would not trust an agency with tolling a new bridge when they did not do it right the last time.

It's actually 66 years old; it was only rehabbed in 1985.
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Crown Victoria

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1901 on: October 26, 2021, 12:08:20 AM »

The I 78 bridge here is only 36 years old, I would not trust an agency with tolling a new bridge when they did not do it right the last time.

It's actually 66 years old; it was only rehabbed in 1985.

This is true. This stretch of I-78 was originally planned as a freeway for US 22 and built during the mid 1950s. The bridge itself was rehabilitated in 1985. And, whether it's 66 or 36 years old, the bridge needs major work to allow for extension of the ramps from Exit 35 (PA 143, Lenhartsville), which are woefully short.

While tolling this particular bridge will bring in decent revenues, the issue is how easy it will be to shunpike around the tolling point. One would only need to use Old 22, which parallels I-78, between Exits 35 and 40.

As far as these proposed bridge tollings...they better have an air tight 75 guaranteed life span with no more than a 20-30 year toll.   Way to many on the proposed toll bridge list are way to new to be needing replacement.

All of the bridges proposed for tolling date to the 50's and 60's, making them all at least 50 years old, and quite a few of them over 60. Seems to me like that's a fairly decent age for bridges from that era, and many of them do need extensive work to bring them up to modern standards, if not outright replacement. For example, the I-79 Bridgeville, I-83 John Harris (South), and I-78 Lenhartsville bridges would need widening anyway, even without replacement.

Are there that many roads where they ever actually did as suggested, pay off the original bonds and then make it free? It seems more the exception than the norm.

All of Kentucky's parkways have had their tolls removed, as have the Cross Island Parkway on Hilton Head Island in South Carolina (only a few months ago) and the Dallas-Fort Worth Turnpike, after the original bonds were retired. The Connecticut Turnpike is also an example of this, although other circumstances (a major accident at a toll booth and the use of federal funds for the Mianus River Bridge after its collapse, both in 1983) contributed to the abolition of tolls on that route. These are the exceptions to what seems to be the norm...
« Last Edit: October 26, 2021, 12:14:09 AM by Crown Victoria »
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storm2k

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1902 on: October 26, 2021, 02:30:34 AM »

As far as these proposed bridge tollings...they better have an air tight 75 guaranteed life span with no more than a 20-30 year toll.   Way to many on the proposed toll bridge list are way to new to be needing replacement.

Given that they specifically call out maintenance and upkeep of the bridge in the proposal, combined with the sheer disastrous shortfall of funding versus needed work, I would say once that toll is in place, it's there to stay.
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74/171FAN

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1903 on: October 26, 2021, 07:43:45 AM »

Looking at the Public Meeting, the new I-70/PA 51 interchange will be a DDI. Also Finley Rd will be relocated to a redone signalized intersection at PA 51 and PA 981.

This cannot come soon enough. Right now, both onramps from PA 51 to I-70 end at a stop sign with absolutely no acceleration lane. You have to wait for a large enough opening (which can take awhile on this stretch of I-70) and then gun it as quickly as your vehicle will allow.

I have to do that right now getting onto I-83 from Union Deposit Rd due to the widening project. Yes, it is very much annoying. 

For some reason, PennDOT and the Turnpike have a love for stop signs on entrance ramps during construction projects, whereas other states almost always have enough room to permit a yield condition.

PennDOT's YouTube page now has a video showing the rendering of the proposed DDI at I-70/PA 51. 
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74/171FAN

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1904 on: October 26, 2021, 04:41:19 PM »

« Last Edit: October 29, 2021, 10:02:25 AM by 74/171FAN »
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74/171FAN

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« Last Edit: November 01, 2021, 06:02:06 PM by 74/171FAN »
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jmd41280

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1906 on: November 01, 2021, 10:44:15 PM »

PennDOT's YouTube page now has a video showing the rendering of the proposed DDI at I-70/PA 51. 

That is going to be such an improvement over the antiquated cloverleaf w/ no acceleration/deceleration lanes. The DDI 27 miles to the west of this interchange (at I-70/79 and US 19) has worked wonders over what used to be there.
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74/171FAN

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« Last Edit: November 03, 2021, 05:27:39 PM by 74/171FAN »
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74/171FAN

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74/171FAN

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1909 on: November 09, 2021, 02:51:22 PM »

(For PA 981) ADVISORY – NORVELT – FRIDAY - PennDOT to Hold Groundbreaking Ceremony

Quote
The ceremony will open the Laurel Valley Transportation Improvement Project.
 

"Open" should be "begin construction"...
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famartin

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1910 on: November 09, 2021, 04:41:33 PM »

(For PA 981) ADVISORY – NORVELT – FRIDAY - PennDOT to Hold Groundbreaking Ceremony

Quote
The ceremony will open the Laurel Valley Transportation Improvement Project.
 

"Open" should be "begin construction"...

I think they mean it will "open the project" (i.e., start it). But yes, somewhat confusing wording.
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NJRoadfan

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1911 on: November 09, 2021, 04:53:30 PM »

This is true. This stretch of I-78 was originally planned as a freeway for US 22 and built during the mid 1950s. The bridge itself was rehabilitated in 1985. And, whether it's 66 or 36 years old, the bridge needs major work to allow for extension of the ramps from Exit 35 (PA 143, Lenhartsville), which are woefully short.

Somehow PennDOT has enough funds to upgrade the old US-22 highway to Interstate standards INCLUDING the Schuylkill River bridge and interchanges, but has to toll this one smaller bridge?
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famartin

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1912 on: November 09, 2021, 06:26:56 PM »

This is true. This stretch of I-78 was originally planned as a freeway for US 22 and built during the mid 1950s. The bridge itself was rehabilitated in 1985. And, whether it's 66 or 36 years old, the bridge needs major work to allow for extension of the ramps from Exit 35 (PA 143, Lenhartsville), which are woefully short.

Somehow PennDOT has enough funds to upgrade the old US-22 highway to Interstate standards INCLUDING the Schuylkill River bridge and interchanges, but has to toll this one smaller bridge?

Obviously, they are putting tolls in locations where they will make the most money off non-locals...
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ARMOURERERIC

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1913 on: November 09, 2021, 06:58:24 PM »

(For PA 981) ADVISORY – NORVELT – FRIDAY - PennDOT to Hold Groundbreaking Ceremony

Quote
The ceremony will open the Laurel Valley Transportation Improvement Project.
 

"Open" should be "begin construction"...

I think they mean it will "open the project" (i.e., start it). But yes, somewhat confusing wording.

IIRC, 20 years ago, PennDOT contemplated an expressway type facility on this alignment, are they at least holding a 4 Lane row here?
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74/171FAN

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1914 on: November 09, 2021, 08:15:09 PM »

(For PA 981) ADVISORY – NORVELT – FRIDAY - PennDOT to Hold Groundbreaking Ceremony

Quote
The ceremony will open the Laurel Valley Transportation Improvement Project.
 

"Open" should be "begin construction"...

I think they mean it will "open the project" (i.e., start it). But yes, somewhat confusing wording.

IIRC, 20 years ago, PennDOT contemplated an expressway type facility on this alignment, are they at least holding a 4 Lane row here?

No, PA 981 will remain two lanes, but it will be realigned in areas. (http://www.laurelvalleyproject.com/section-1/)
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Bitmapped

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1915 on: November 09, 2021, 08:38:53 PM »

(For PA 981) ADVISORY – NORVELT – FRIDAY - PennDOT to Hold Groundbreaking Ceremony

Quote
The ceremony will open the Laurel Valley Transportation Improvement Project.
 

"Open" should be "begin construction"...

I think they mean it will "open the project" (i.e., start it). But yes, somewhat confusing wording.

IIRC, 20 years ago, PennDOT contemplated an expressway type facility on this alignment, are they at least holding a 4 Lane row here?

No, PA 981 will remain two lanes, but it will be realigned in areas. (http://www.laurelvalleyproject.com/section-1/)

I drove PA 981 through this project area again this past weekend. This project seems like it would be a nice improvement, although I wish they were shooting for a 55mph design speed rather than 45mph. Two lanes seem adequate for the traffic volumes.

The big problem I see with this project is its southern endpoint. It still means having to crepe along through Mount Pleasant to get to US 119. Building a new connection to US 119, or at least a new bypass road to get to PA 31 to use its interchange with US 119, would make this corridor a lot more useful.

Right now, there's not a great way to get from Connellsville to the Latrobe area. PA 982 is good between US 119 but PA 31 but sort of falls apart north of there as a through route. PA 981 will be decent once these upgrades are complete, except for the southern part by Mount Pleasant. I'd love to see some sort of connection built between the two routes.

Two lanes are probably adequate, although I wish they aimed for a 55mph design speed. It looks like they're going for 45mph here.


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Crown Victoria

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1916 on: November 10, 2021, 01:07:20 AM »

Pennsylvania should expect an additional $4 billion from federal funds over the next five years for roads and bridges:

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/transportation/2021/11/08/infrastructure-bill-pennsylvania-roads-bridges-highways-penndot-funding-4-billion-dollars/stories/202111080106
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Rothman

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1917 on: November 10, 2021, 07:00:55 AM »

Pennsylvania should expect an additional $4 billion from federal funds over the next five years for roads and bridges:

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/transportation/2021/11/08/infrastructure-bill-pennsylvania-roads-bridges-highways-penndot-funding-4-billion-dollars/stories/202111080106
Careful with that word "additional."  Transportation funds were up for reauthorization anyway.  The truth will play out in the FHWA apportionment notices.
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74/171FAN

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« Last Edit: November 10, 2021, 12:33:41 PM by 74/171FAN »
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snowc

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74/171FAN

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1920 on: November 10, 2021, 07:34:49 PM »

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Roadsguy

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1921 on: November 10, 2021, 09:30:38 PM »

PennDOT - District 1 News: PennDOT Starts Audio Outreach for the Bayfront Parkway Project

PennDOT - District 4 News: PennDOT Invites Public to Comment on I-81 Susquehanna Project
Oh here we go again, we now have tolls on i81!  :rolleyes:

Worth noting for anyone just skimming the thread and not reading the press releases: the I-81 bridge project linked above is for a relatively small bridge just below the New York state line, not the Wade Bridge in the Harrisburg area. That one has no replacement lined up and is still not being considered for tolling.
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74/171FAN

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1922 on: November 11, 2021, 08:29:38 AM »

PennDOT - District 1 News: PennDOT Starts Audio Outreach for the Bayfront Parkway Project

PennDOT - District 4 News: PennDOT Invites Public to Comment on I-81 Susquehanna Project
Oh here we go again, we now have tolls on i81!  :rolleyes:

Worth noting for anyone just skimming the thread and not reading the press releases: the I-81 bridge project linked above is for a relatively small bridge just below the New York state line, not the Wade Bridge in the Harrisburg area. That one has no replacement lined up and is still not being considered for tolling.

Thank you for mentioning that.  They are most definitely two different bridges.   :D
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snowc

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1923 on: November 11, 2021, 12:26:08 PM »

PennDOT - District 1 News: PennDOT Starts Audio Outreach for the Bayfront Parkway Project

PennDOT - District 4 News: PennDOT Invites Public to Comment on I-81 Susquehanna Project
Oh here we go again, we now have tolls on i81!  :rolleyes:

Worth noting for anyone just skimming the thread and not reading the press releases: the I-81 bridge project linked above is for a relatively small bridge just below the New York state line, not the Wade Bridge in the Harrisburg area. That one has no replacement lined up and is still not being considered for tolling.
I've been on 81 so many times, and they NEED to fix up the part from Scranton to NY line! It's very bumpy! :pan:  :banghead:
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Flyer78

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1924 on: November 11, 2021, 05:47:10 PM »

About 9 miles from the state line to Waverly have been repaved - I think they only did travel lanes; Mill & fill-type operation, not full depth repairs. However, it is much better than it was.
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