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Author Topic: Never-built highways of the Northwest  (Read 10998 times)

Bruce

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Never-built highways of the Northwest
« on: July 29, 2020, 12:16:38 AM »

I figure I should start a separate thread for these historic newspaper snippets that I find.

Today's is about an alternative to SR 522 that would have linked Duvall to Skykomish on the way to Stevens Pass. King County lobbied for it in 1952 but were unsuccessful because of its impact on the Tolt River watershed (where Seattle sourced some of its water).



Source: The Seattle Times (June 15, 1952)
« Last Edit: April 01, 2021, 03:39:52 AM by Bruce »
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nexus73

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Re: Never-built highways of Washington
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2020, 06:52:31 PM »

I-82 was originally planned to go to Seattle.  I always wondered about the backstory on that one.

Rick
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Re: Never-built highways of Washington
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2020, 08:13:43 PM »

I-82 was originally planned to go to Seattle.  I always wondered about the backstory on that one.

Rick
Or the routing?
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Bruce

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Re: Never-built highways of Washington
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2020, 09:17:13 PM »

I-82 was originally planned to go to Seattle.  I always wondered about the backstory on that one.

Rick

The original plan was Ellensburg to Pendelton, but Washington wanted to add the rest of the US 410 corridor to Tacoma and ultimately Aberdeen in 1959 (see this news report). A key part of the plan would have been a tunnel under Naches Pass, which obviously didn't pan out.

Similarly, Oregon threw out proposals to have I-80N (later I-84) extend up to Astoria.

Bruce

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Re: Never-built highways of Washington
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2020, 02:01:06 AM »

I totally forgot that we had an existing topic for this.

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=23146.0

Bickendan

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Re: Never-built highways of Washington
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2020, 05:42:57 AM »

I-82 was originally planned to go to Seattle.  I always wondered about the backstory on that one.

Rick

The original plan was Ellensburg to Pendelton, but Washington wanted to add the rest of the US 410 corridor to Tacoma and ultimately Aberdeen in 1959 (see this news report). A key part of the plan would have been a tunnel under Naches Pass, which obviously didn't pan out.

Similarly, Oregon threw out proposals to have I-80N (later I-84) extend up to Astoria.
Was that part of the 505 to Clatskanie idea? If so, it would have been 505, not 80N/84.
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TEG24601

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Re: Never-built highways of Washington
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2020, 01:09:57 PM »

I-82 was originally planned to go to Seattle.  I always wondered about the backstory on that one.

Rick

The original plan was Ellensburg to Pendelton, but Washington wanted to add the rest of the US 410 corridor to Tacoma and ultimately Aberdeen in 1959 (see this news report). A key part of the plan would have been a tunnel under Naches Pass, which obviously didn't pan out.

Similarly, Oregon threw out proposals to have I-80N (later I-84) extend up to Astoria.


When I was in middle school, the library had been donated an old, leather bound, road atlas from the 1960s. In it, the road over Snoqualmie Pass was designated I-82.  I also recall seeing images of plans to convert US-12, to I-82, all the way to Aberdeen.


It is too bad that Oregon doesn't have a safe way to get to the coast, as all the routes are massively undersized for the traffic that uses them.
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KEK Inc.

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Re: Never-built highways of Washington
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2020, 07:40:36 PM »

I wonder if there ever were plans for I-82 through Stampede Pass. 

Currently, the Green River Watershed seems to only be occupied by Bonneville Power Administration and the main railroad artery east of the Seattle metro area.

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TEG24601

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Re: Never-built highways of Washington
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2020, 01:16:07 PM »

Thinking about unbuild highways, there is the missing piece(s) of SR 501.


There is also SR 109 from Taholah to Queets.


And there is the fact that every ferry route that the state took over in 1953 was supposed to be supplanted by state funded bridges.
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OCGuy81

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Re: Never-built highways of Washington
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2021, 12:34:25 PM »

Thinking about unbuild highways, there is the missing piece(s) of SR 501.


There is also SR 109 from Taholah to Queets.


And there is the fact that every ferry route that the state took over in 1953 was supposed to be supplanted by state funded bridges.

Was 501 intended to be connected?
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Bickendan

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Re: Never-built highways of Washington
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2021, 03:18:12 AM »

Thinking about unbuild highways, there is the missing piece(s) of SR 501.


There is also SR 109 from Taholah to Queets.


And there is the fact that every ferry route that the state took over in 1953 was supposed to be supplanted by state funded bridges.

Was 501 intended to be connected?
Yes, though it's not clear whether it was via the main Columbia River shore routing or the Spur 501 routing along Lake Vancouver.
But with mainline 501 getting cut back because of erosion, the Vancouver and the Ridgefield segments will never be connected.
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kkt

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Re: Never-built highways of Washington
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2021, 02:19:28 PM »

And there is the fact that every ferry route that the state took over in 1953 was supposed to be supplanted by state funded bridges.

Really?  I thought it was for safety after well-publicized accidents on the mosquito fleet and the hopes that the state would be a safer operator.

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The Ghostbuster

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Re: Never-built highways of Washington
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2021, 09:23:57 PM »

I doubt there was ever a proposal to extend Interstate 82 northward to the Canadian border. If such a proposal had been made, would it have been possible to build such an extension (perhaps following existing US 97 to the border, and possibly terminating at BC 97 north of Osoyoos), or would insufficient traffic counts and difficult terrain have derailed such a proposal?
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Bruce

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Re: Never-built highways of Washington
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2021, 09:56:40 PM »

I doubt there was ever a proposal to extend Interstate 82 northward to the Canadian border. If such a proposal had been made, would it have been possible to build such an extension (perhaps following existing US 97 to the border, and possibly terminating at BC 97 north of Osoyoos), or would insufficient traffic counts and difficult terrain have derailed such a proposal?

The mountainous terrain north of Ellensburg would make it difficult, and there's not enough traffic beyond Wenatchee to justify even a four-lane highway. Wenatchee did want to study upgrading SR 28 and SR 281 into a freeway in the early 2000s, but couldn't find the funds.

The majority of I-82 traffic is heading across the Cascades to the Seattle area anyway, so the route functions just fine in its current form.

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Re: Never-built highways of Washington
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2021, 11:37:48 AM »

Kelowna BC is growing rapidly. Could there be a Spokane-Kelowna-Kamloops freeway connection in the near future?
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SkyPesos

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Re: Never-built highways of Washington
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2021, 11:47:39 AM »

I-82 was originally planned to go to Seattle.  I always wondered about the backstory on that one.

Rick
Not sure from who or when the idea came around, but I-82 into Seattle sounds almost FritzOwlish to me. I-90 is a slight NW-SE diagonal between Seattle and I-82, which fits I-82's alignment perfectly for E-W travel. And a southern alignment to I-90 through the Cascades get pretty close to Mount Rainier, whether you're paralleling US 12 or WA 410 on a new tunnel alignment.
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Re: Never-built highways of Washington
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2021, 12:24:22 PM »

And there is the fact that every ferry route that the state took over in 1953 was supposed to be supplanted by state funded bridges.

Really?  I thought it was for safety after well-publicized accidents on the mosquito fleet and the hopes that the state would be a safer operator.


From my understanding, the State took over the Black Ball line due to a strike.  At the time, the Black Ball had to get state permission to raise tolls, to pay the demands of the workers.  They state refused.  The strike caused such a problem that the state took over the Black Ball, broke the union or met their demands (the take over and resolution are not well enumerated).  They then started the process of replacing several vessels, and planning for toll bridges to replace all routes, including the San Juans by 2000.  In reality, only 2 routes were replaced, the Tacoma Narrows, and Hood Canal.  But the rest were not removed from the operational mission of the Highway Department until the 80s.  I believe some of the Super Class Ferries still have "Washington State Toll Bridge Authority" as the signatory agency on their dedication plaques.  I know at least the Elwa did.  Replacing the ferries with bridges would be a disaster for the west side of the sound, as there would be unobstructed access to the city, likely turning the entire sound into a single metroplex.  It would also destroy the peace and quiet on Whidbey Island, where most people live to be close enough to access the city without too much hassle, but far enough away that the negative elements and traffic are not something they have to deal with.  I could never imagine bridges through the San Juans, as that is some deep water and steep shores.
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Bruce

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Re: Never-built highways of Washington
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2021, 06:05:11 PM »

Kelowna BC is growing rapidly. Could there be a Spokane-Kelowna-Kamloops freeway connection in the near future?

BC Hwy 5 is already an expressway up to Merritt, so I don't think an inland-only freeway would be necessary at all.

I-82 was originally planned to go to Seattle.  I always wondered about the backstory on that one.

Rick
Not sure from who or when the idea came around, but I-82 into Seattle sounds almost FritzOwlish to me. I-90 is a slight NW-SE diagonal between Seattle and I-82, which fits I-82's alignment perfectly for E-W travel. And a southern alignment to I-90 through the Cascades get pretty close to Mount Rainier, whether you're paralleling US 12 or WA 410 on a new tunnel alignment.

The plan was to replace US 410 (now SR 410 and US 12) with a new all-weather route along Naches Pass to serve Tacoma.

kkt

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Re: Never-built highways of Washington
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2021, 07:34:34 PM »

All the way to Aberdeen!  heh.  Well, they did do some work on US 101 from Olympia to junction with WA 8 making it a freeway, and they made WA 8 into 4-lane expressway.  But US 12 has had only small improvements.  Now the harvestable timber is about gone and the jobs with it.  There's still some fishing and tourism.

Naches Pass tunnel.  Right.
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Bruce

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Re: Never-built highways of Washington
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2021, 09:19:34 PM »

And given that Oregon was never able to push through an I-84 extension to Astoria, there are no Interstates that reach the actual Pacific Coast north of San Francisco.

SkyPesos

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Re: Never-built highways of Washington
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2021, 09:24:31 PM »

And given that Oregon was never able to push through an I-84 extension to Astoria, there are no Interstates that reach the actual Pacific Coast north of San Francisco.
Is there enough traffic west of Portland for a full interstate extension to the Pacific Ocean. I know US 26 is a freeway from Portland to a point west of Hillsboro, but beyond that, you’re out of the Portland metro area.
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Re: Never-built highways of Washington
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2021, 09:36:03 PM »

And given that Oregon was never able to push through an I-84 extension to Astoria, there are no Interstates that reach the actual Pacific Coast north of San Francisco.
Is there enough traffic west of Portland for a full interstate extension to the Pacific Ocean. I know US 26 is a freeway from Portland to a point west of Hillsboro, but beyond that, you’re out of the Portland metro area.

On the weekends during the summer? Yes.

The entire Oregon and Washington coast don't have any freeways to get inland.
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Re: Never-built highways of Washington
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2021, 05:26:15 PM »

And given that Oregon was never able to push through an I-84 extension to Astoria, there are no Interstates that reach the actual Pacific Coast north of San Francisco.
Is there enough traffic west of Portland for a full interstate extension to the Pacific Ocean. I know US 26 is a freeway from Portland to a point west of Hillsboro, but beyond that, you’re out of the Portland metro area.

On the weekends during the summer? Yes.

The entire Oregon and Washington coast don't have any freeways to get inland.


This.  Given that the Interstates were envisioned as a national defense system, it seems short sighted to not have them reach the coast north of San Francisco (and arguably, they don't reach north of LA), if for no other reason than to provide a means of evacuation in the event of Tsunami or other costal disaster, or to allow the movement of defense forces if someone get a wild hair and wants to invade the Pacific coast.  And with the elimination of the costal railroads, there isn't even alternative means of moving goods to and from, or along the coast.


Washington has at least been trying with their upgrades to US 12, and Oregon has the right-of-way and bridges build for expansing OR 18 (among others), but a actual numbered interstate to the coast in both states would good for those reasons. Of course, I would also love to see both states work together to expand the Cascades system to cover the coasts and the inland communities, but that is also a pie-in-the-sky idea.
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OCGuy81

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Re: Never-built highways of Washington
« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2021, 11:35:40 PM »

And given that Oregon was never able to push through an I-84 extension to Astoria, there are no Interstates that reach the actual Pacific Coast north of San Francisco.
Is there enough traffic west of Portland for a full interstate extension to the Pacific Ocean. I know US 26 is a freeway from Portland to a point west of Hillsboro, but beyond that, you’re out of the Portland metro area.

On the weekends during the summer? Yes.

The entire Oregon and Washington coast don't have any freeways to get inland.


This.  Given that the Interstates were envisioned as a national defense system, it seems short sighted to not have them reach the coast north of San Francisco (and arguably, they don't reach north of LA), if for no other reason than to provide a means of evacuation in the event of Tsunami or other costal disaster, or to allow the movement of defense forces if someone get a wild hair and wants to invade the Pacific coast.  And with the elimination of the costal railroads, there isn't even alternative means of moving goods to and from, or along the coast.


Washington has at least been trying with their upgrades to US 12, and Oregon has the right-of-way and bridges build for expansing OR 18 (among others), but a actual numbered interstate to the coast in both states would good for those reasons. Of course, I would also love to see both states work together to expand the Cascades system to cover the coasts and the inland communities, but that is also a pie-in-the-sky idea.

Exactly! In the event of tsunami or other disaster anywhere on hundreds of mikes of coastline, the quickest way to get there is a very limited number of two lane highways.

On a side note, I don't believe there's any commercial flights to coastal areas north of SF.
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Re: Never-built highways of Washington
« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2021, 11:44:38 PM »

On a side note, I don't believe there's any commercial flights to coastal areas north of SF.
OTH (at Coos Bay) have United service to SFO, and seasonal to DEN. It's the only airport on the Oregon coast with passenger service.
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