The Fastest Freeway Commutes (Pre-COVID) in LA aren't where you'd expect them

[kernals12]

In 2018, 2 of the fastest morning freeway commutes in LA were on the 405. Wait, what? It's true. Between 7AM and 9AM, traffic on the 405 Northbound north of the Santa Monica freeway and Southbound south of the Santa Monica Freeway cruised along at 60 mph.


But going in the opposite direction, toward the Santa Monica, the 405 assumed its reputation as the world's longest parking lot.


And in the evening, things get even weirder, all of the fastest and slowest commutes were on the same stretches of freeway, just going in opposite directions




My theory is that because they've added a kajillion lanes to the most congested freeways, they're sitting empty during off-peak hours. Has Caltrans considered reversible lanes?

[Max Rockatansky]

405 isn't anywhere near the beast it was after all the improvements this past decade and after all that Carmageddon stuff.  The last time I drove the entire thing in rush hour was in May 2019 which also happened to be the only time I've ever made through without stopping.  Sepuleveda Pass is still a choke point but sticking to the left lane worked to avoid completely stopping.  I believe CA 60 has surpassed I-405 in recent years for overall daily traffic volume. 

[kernals12]

Am I right in assuming that the congestion on the 5 freeway in the morning is from trucks going to Long Beach?

[Max Rockatansky]

Am I right in assuming that the congestion on the 5 freeway in the morning is from trucks going to Long Beach?

That along with just general traffic and an antiquated design.  Much of the Santa Ana Freeway segment of I-5 has been undergoing improvements these past couple years like I-405 had before.  I would think that those improvements alone will have a equally negating effect once completed. 

Either way, when it comes to Los Angeles traffic my own take on it is that people over blow it.  Yes, almost all the freeways experience heavy traffic but there really isn't anywhere that approaches the inconvenience of something like the Kennedy Expressway in Chicago.  Out of all the cities I've lived or worked in I probably would put Los Angeles behind Chicago and Miami in turns of sheer frustrating commutes. 

[SectorZ]

The roads that are already "fast" at 55 MPH don't need lanes taken away. Why penalize those people?

I see the same thing on I-93 south of Boston with the reversible zipper lane there. In the morning, traffic bottlenecks southbound because they lose a lane, along with northbound where the lane ends and five lanes becoming four. Reverse for the afternoon.

It helps very little in the long run.

[jeffandnicole]

How it is weird that the afternoon rush hour is the opposite of the morning rush hour?

There's a false assumption here that lanes in the reverse direction have a lot of excess capacity.  Taking a lane away can be a remarkable reduction in capacity, and those speeds, which aren't very fast to begin with, could reduce considerably.  Take away 2 lanes, which would be ideal so that there's 2 lanes in the control flow lanes, and now you're surely dealing with congestion in both directions without a remarkable time improvement for the direction that was already experiencing congestion.  The pinch points are often the exits into the city in the morning, or lane reductions as you go further into the suburbs in the afternoon.

Morning rush hours, maybe you can get away with it a little because there's less traffic overall, with the majority of it being work/school related traffic. Afternoon rush has a lot more traffic in general because people are shopping, eating, going to events, etc.

Zipper barriers also aren't without their faults.  They have to be run twice a day.  Breaking down isn't an option, and if it's a machine, it will break down on occasion.  In some places that use them, such as the bridges between Philly and NJ, the bridges were originally designed without one, and that open lane indicator lights would control the flow of traffic.  Crossover accidents became an issue, along with some people disregarding the lights, and a barrier had to be installed.

So...Zipper barriers have their place, especially when used temporarily such as during construction.  They're not a great permanent fix though.

[kernals12]

How it is weird that the afternoon rush hour is the opposite of the morning rush hour?

There's a false assumption here that lanes in the reverse direction have a lot of excess capacity.  Taking a lane away can be a remarkable reduction in capacity, and those speeds, which aren't very fast to begin with, could reduce considerably.  Take away 2 lanes, which would be ideal so that there's 2 lanes in the control flow lanes, and now you're surely dealing with congestion in both directions without a remarkable time improvement for the direction that was already experiencing congestion.  The pinch points are often the exits into the city in the morning, or lane reductions as you go further into the suburbs in the afternoon.

Morning rush hours, maybe you can get away with it a little because there's less traffic overall, with the majority of it being work/school related traffic. Afternoon rush has a lot more traffic in general because people are shopping, eating, going to events, etc.

Zipper barriers also aren't without their faults.  They have to be run twice a day.  Breaking down isn't an option, and if it's a machine, it will break down on occasion.  In some places that use them, such as the bridges between Philly and NJ, the bridges were originally designed without one, and that open lane indicator lights would control the flow of traffic.  Crossover accidents became an issue, along with some people disregarding the lights, and a barrier had to be installed.

So...Zipper barriers have their place, especially when used temporarily such as during construction.  They're not a great permanent fix though.

It's weird that the fastest commutes are in the opposite direction of the slowest commutes. The 405 is internationally infamous for its traffic jams, so the fact that part of it is faster than less infamous freeways like, say, the 2 or the 105, is pretty weird.

[The Ghostbuster]

This is surprising. I would have thought the entire Los Angeles freeway system was gridlocked 24/7, considering how notorious it is for its traffic congestion.

[kernals12]

This is surprising. I would have thought the entire Los Angeles freeway system was gridlocked 24/7, considering how notorious it is for its traffic congestion.

People tend to overestimate the presence of things that annoy them.

[Max Rockatansky]

This is surprising. I would have thought the entire Los Angeles freeway system was gridlocked 24/7, considering how notorious it is for its traffic congestion.

Most people who say that have no frame of reference for anything otherwise.  There is a particular person on Freewayjim who has convinced himself Los Angeles has the worst traffic when he hasn't lived anywhere but California.  How such a person got to such a lofty status on a major road page with so little actual experience with major roads across the country is vexing.

But then again I wonder the same thing about the entire Freewayjim page sometimes...so...

[sparker]

It's not that L.A. has, in terms of sheer volume or even delay time, the absolute worst commutes; it's more that since the '90's the peak commute hours have started earlier -- both morning and afternoon -- and are dissipating later than 25-30 years ago.  Also the overall geographic spread regarding peak-hour slowdowns has spread farther afield over roughly the same time frame (largely due to heavy employment presence in the central Inland Empire and in OC's South County); whereas, with the eastern reaches of I-10 as an example, things freed up past Ontario in the 90's, whereas the problems have gradually slid eastward (when I lived in Redlands from 2004 to 2009, there were little problems east of I-215; from reports by friends who live out in Yucaipa, the current backups start east of Beaumont!).  L.A.'s not the worst when broken down by the normative metrics, but it's just the time and geographic factor that's been involved. 

[skluth]

It's not that L.A. has, in terms of sheer volume or even delay time, the absolute worst commutes; it's more that since the '90's the peak commute hours have started earlier -- both morning and afternoon -- and are dissipating later than 25-30 years ago.  Also the overall geographic spread regarding peak-hour slowdowns has spread farther afield over roughly the same time frame (largely due to heavy employment presence in the central Inland Empire and in OC's South County); whereas, with the eastern reaches of I-10 as an example, things freed up past Ontario in the 90's, whereas the problems have gradually slid eastward (when I lived in Redlands from 2004 to 2009, there were little problems east of I-215; from reports by friends who live out in Yucaipa, the current backups start east of Beaumont!).  L.A.'s not the worst when broken down by the normative metrics, but it's just the time and geographic factor that's been involved.

I don't think the afternoon backups are too bad on I-10, especially with the new lanes going up the incline east of Redlands. IMO, the worst traffic problem is the I-215/CA 60 concurrency in Riverside, especially on either single highway right before they meet just west of Moreno Valley. CA 91 west of Corona may be worse based on what little experience I've had through there, but I try to plan my trips to avoid it as much as possible. (I'm moderately familiar with Carbon Canyon Road thanks to my driving strategies.) The other traffic nightmare is Cajon Pass on Friday afternoons starting three-day weekends with traffic backing up almost to the 210, which rivals the DC holiday traffic nightmare heading to Delaware/Ocean City and the Outer Banks (US 50 and I-95 respectively) those same weekends.

For me, the worst backups are in the Banning/ Cabazon/ San Gorgonio Pass. (I've seen/heard all three names used.  ) It's bad enough normally. Now there's construction adding to the problem. (I think they're just rebuilding the old road but no widening or other major changes.) High winds in the pass lead to frequent accidents and with no sideroads connecting Banning to CA 111, there are no reasonable alternatives during backups. There are also significant backups around every major weekend like Coachella and Stagecoach even without accidents. There are side roads between the Morongo Reservation and the dinosaurs from the Pee Wee Herman movie plus a few at the Haugen-Lehmann Road exit, but there isn't a complete network of side roads for traffic. It wouldn't be physically difficult to build connecting roads; I'm guessing local NIMBYs prevent that from happening.

[mrsman]

I do have some questions and criticisms of the above referenced maps.

First, some of the segments are way too long to be representative of the corridor as a whole.  Let's take the AM 405 southbound between the 10 and 110.  Noted as one of the fastest freeways.  But I would surmise that this is the average of the whole section.  I would imagine that the SB 405 is still pretty heavy in the mornings until you pass by LAX area.

[I don't have to surmise it, as I used to drive parts of it for my commute in the 1990's.  But as I haven't lived in the area for a while, I am certainly open to being corrected by those who are there now.  My experience was that mornings were generally busy until you reached the 105 and then the freeway did open up considerably.  The 105 was relatively new at the time, so certainly the 105 experience was grand before people made it parts of their routine.  Also, providing the 105 allowed for an alternate route to reach southeastern LA county.  So while most of the traffic may conitnue on 405, enough can pull away onto 105 that both routes would be free flowing.  Also, there is significant employment in LAX/El Segundo, so as many exit in that area, the freeway will open up beyond the point.]

Second, to what extent do HOV/HOT lanes affect this?  Are we averaging all the traffic or just the general purpose lanes?  If the HOV lane traffic is averaged, then it is almost a truism that those freeways that have the lanes will always do better, since the improved speed on those lanes will improve the average of the whole freeway.  So if a freeway is listed as having a fast commute, the general lanes may still be quite bad - the carpool lanes are bringing up the average.

Third, it does seem like only certain freeways were surveyed.  I would have to imagine no slowdowns on a reverse commute 118.  Westbound towards Simi Valley in the AM?  You never hear of any incidents there, it is almost a forgotten freeway.  I would also consider reverse directions on the 2 and the 210 (westbound, west of the 210/134 interchange) as also being quite empty.

So I will take this all with a grain of salt.

[kkt]

My concern with that map is linguistic.  Southern California is famous for always using "the" before a route number.  But on that map, they omit it on 2 of the 20 segments.

[Max Rockatansky]

My concern with that map is linguistic.  Southern California is famous for always using "the" before a route number.  But on that map, they omit it on 2 of the 20 segments.

Personally it is a pet peeve of mine to phrase the highways that way.  There is a difference between; Interstate, US Route and State Highway which phrasing "The Insert Route"  doesn't pick up.  Also it sounds really clunky to phrase most things with "The"  at the beginning.  My wife does that a lot when referring to things like "The CHP"  and it sounds weird to me.

Then again, I'm not a native Californian and I don't think that I have any relic dialect left over from my formative years in Michigan.

[kkt]

I'm originally from the San Francisco area.  I just think it's weird to use "the" sometimes but not all the time.

[TJS23]

405 isn't anywhere near the beast it was after all the improvements this past decade and after all that Carmageddon stuff.  The last time I drove the entire thing in rush hour was in May 2019 which also happened to be the only time I've ever made through without stopping.  Sepuleveda Pass is still a choke point but sticking to the left lane worked to avoid completely stopping.  I believe CA 60 has surpassed I-405 in recent years for overall daily traffic volume.

Agreed, leaving from UCLA to go to Norcal, the worst part was getting to the Sunset Blvd onramp, once you're actually on the freeway it moves at a fairly consent speed. Meanwhile SB over the pass there's no traffic until Santa Monica Blvd when it gets terrible. My real pet peeve was 10 EB towards Downtown from the 405 interchange, if I didn't leave by 2 then I was screwed and had to wait 35 mins to an hour. However, I have never seen any traffic at any time of day going on WB 10 past 110.

[RZF]

405 isn't anywhere near the beast it was after all the improvements this past decade and after all that Carmageddon stuff.  The last time I drove the entire thing in rush hour was in May 2019 which also happened to be the only time I've ever made through without stopping.  Sepuleveda Pass is still a choke point but sticking to the left lane worked to avoid completely stopping.  I believe CA 60 has surpassed I-405 in recent years for overall daily traffic volume.

Agreed, leaving from UCLA to go to Norcal, the worst part was getting to the Sunset Blvd onramp, once you're actually on the freeway it moves at a fairly consent speed. Meanwhile SB over the pass there's no traffic until Santa Monica Blvd when it gets terrible. My real pet peeve was 10 EB towards Downtown from the 405 interchange, if I didn't leave by 2 then I was screwed and had to wait 35 mins to an hour. However, I have never seen any traffic at any time of day going on WB 10 past 110.

I always wondered why the 10's afternoon/evening traffic started so early, going INTO downtown instead of away from it. Is there an explanation for this? (e.g., very large amount of employment in Santa Monica, commuters getting off very very early from their jobs on the 405 corridor, etc)

[ClassicHasClass]

This is surprising. I would have thought the entire Los Angeles freeway system was gridlocked 24/7, considering how notorious it is for its traffic congestion.

No, not really. I can get around pretty easily on Sundays, for example, and later at night. Even the Hollywood and Santa Monica have decent flow late most evenings. But when it's bad, it's horrid, and it's worst weekday mornings. Saturday eastbound (particularly on the 210 Foothill) can be ugly as well.

[pderocco]

In 2018, 2 of the fastest morning freeway commutes in LA were on the 405. Wait, what? It's true. Between 7AM and 9AM, traffic on the 405 Northbound north of the Santa Monica freeway and Southbound south of the Santa Monica Freeway cruised along at 60 mph.

I used to commute from Pacific Palisades almost to Castaic in the early aughts, and it was very pleasant. The parking lot on the other side was quite a sight, though. The only bad spot was the 14 interchange, largely because of the hill.

[kernals12]

405 isn't anywhere near the beast it was after all the improvements this past decade and after all that Carmageddon stuff.  The last time I drove the entire thing in rush hour was in May 2019 which also happened to be the only time I've ever made through without stopping.  Sepuleveda Pass is still a choke point but sticking to the left lane worked to avoid completely stopping.  I believe CA 60 has surpassed I-405 in recent years for overall daily traffic volume.

Agreed, leaving from UCLA to go to Norcal, the worst part was getting to the Sunset Blvd onramp, once you're actually on the freeway it moves at a fairly consent speed. Meanwhile SB over the pass there's no traffic until Santa Monica Blvd when it gets terrible. My real pet peeve was 10 EB towards Downtown from the 405 interchange, if I didn't leave by 2 then I was screwed and had to wait 35 mins to an hour. However, I have never seen any traffic at any time of day going on WB 10 past 110.

I always wondered why the 10's afternoon/evening traffic started so early, going INTO downtown instead of away from it. Is there an explanation for this? (e.g., very large amount of employment in Santa Monica, commuters getting off very very early from their jobs on the 405 corridor, etc)

Lots of people work on the westside, think of Century City (which btw was built in anticipation of the Beverly Hills freeway that never materialized)

[skluth]

My concern with that map is linguistic.  Southern California is famous for always using "the" before a route number.  But on that map, they omit it on 2 of the 20 segments.

Personally it is a pet peeve of mine to phrase the highways that way.  There is a difference between; Interstate, US Route and State Highway which phrasing "The Insert Route"  doesn't pick up.  Also it sounds really clunky to phrase most things with "The"  at the beginning.  My wife does that a lot when referring to things like "The CHP"  and it sounds weird to me.

Then again, I'm not a native Californian and I don't think that I have any relic dialect left over from my formative years in Michigan.

I was born and raised in NE Wisconsin where everything is called a highway. Interstates, US highways, and state highways are all described as "Highway XX". This is true even with the County Trunk System, but sometimes locals will say "County XX" or just "XX". I guess I'm just used to a generic before a highway number so it doesn't register as different to me.

[bing101]

I'm originally from the San Francisco area.  I just think it's weird to use "the" sometimes but not all the time.

Yes in San Francisco we use "Highway-XX" the way we name freeways. But in Sacramento we have to be very specific on designation due to history behind Business 80 and I-80. Note Solano County, CA uses both the Sacramento and Bay Area naming for freeways due to the area being the outer suburbs of both places.




But for Los Angeles I would wonder how reduced in Traffic jams will I-5 be once the Santa Ana Freeway is widened between CA-91 to I-710 is completed.

[kernals12]

The rest of the world seems to put "the" before their freeway numbers. I've watched enough Top Gear to know that

[skluth]

The rest of the world seems to put "the" before their freeway numbers. I've watched enough Top Gear to know that

How the UK speaks is not the rest of the world.