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Author Topic: I -40 Hernando Desoto Bridge at Memphis shutdown  (Read 20685 times)

bwana39

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Re: I -40 Hernando Desoto Bridge at Memphis shutdown
« Reply #100 on: May 14, 2021, 01:46:45 PM »

Latest update from ARDOT
Quote
During the course of our investigation we have found earlier evidence of damage on the #40MSRiverBridge captured by an inspector's drone video. We are now investigating to see if the damage was noted in previous reports and what actions were taken
Looks like they took this seriously:

This shot gives me a different view of this issue. This (broken) beam has minimal load bearing requirement. The deck supports are tied directly to the vertical rods. It would appear that this element has two purposes both redundant. They would give short term support if a vertical rod failed or for  replacement of a rod and it helps keep horizontal motion in check (especially non-linear thrust).  The deck beams are primary to maintaining linear integrity to the deck.

 It would not surprise me if these were added solely to rest the deck support assemblies on during bridge assembly.  I am not sure it does anything meaningful!
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kalvado

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Re: I -40 Hernando Desoto Bridge at Memphis shutdown
« Reply #101 on: May 14, 2021, 02:29:44 PM »

Latest update from ARDOT
Quote
During the course of our investigation we have found earlier evidence of damage on the #40MSRiverBridge captured by an inspector's drone video. We are now investigating to see if the damage was noted in previous reports and what actions were taken
Looks like they took this seriously:

This shot gives me a different view of this issue. This (broken) beam has minimal load bearing requirement. The deck supports are tied directly to the vertical rods. It would appear that this element has two purposes both redundant. They would give short term support if a vertical rod failed or for  replacement of a rod and it helps keep horizontal motion in check (especially non-linear thrust).  The deck beams are primary to maintaining linear integrity to the deck.

 It would not surprise me if these were added solely to rest the deck support assemblies on during bridge assembly.  I am not sure it does anything meaningful!
Problem is, if that is all true - there is no significant load, so why the failure? It takes some effort to break a steel beam like that...
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bwana39

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Roadgeekteen

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Re: I -40 Hernando Desoto Bridge at Memphis shutdown
« Reply #103 on: May 14, 2021, 06:33:00 PM »

Any timeline for when the bridge can reopen for vehicular traffic?

kalvado

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Re: I -40 Hernando Desoto Bridge at Memphis shutdown
« Reply #104 on: May 14, 2021, 06:37:30 PM »

Any timeline for when the bridge can reopen for vehicular traffic?
I saw 2 months mentioned somewhere
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Roadgeekteen

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Re: I -40 Hernando Desoto Bridge at Memphis shutdown
« Reply #105 on: May 14, 2021, 06:39:12 PM »

Any timeline for when the bridge can reopen for vehicular traffic?
I saw 2 months mentioned somewhere
Oh dear poor I-55.

US71

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Re: I -40 Hernando Desoto Bridge at Memphis shutdown
« Reply #106 on: May 14, 2021, 07:34:48 PM »

Any timeline for when the bridge can reopen for vehicular traffic?
I saw 2 months mentioned somewhere

I heard 2-6 months.
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Henry

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Re: I -40 Hernando Desoto Bridge at Memphis shutdown
« Reply #107 on: May 14, 2021, 08:04:12 PM »

I'm amazed that the crack hasn't caused the bridge to fall into the river...yet. But there's absolutely no excuse for missing that flaw for two years.
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Roadgeekteen

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Re: I -40 Hernando Desoto Bridge at Memphis shutdown
« Reply #108 on: May 14, 2021, 09:05:15 PM »

Any timeline for when the bridge can reopen for vehicular traffic?
I saw 2 months mentioned somewhere

I heard 2-6 months.
Oh no

sprjus4

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Re: I -40 Hernando Desoto Bridge at Memphis shutdown
« Reply #109 on: May 14, 2021, 09:38:50 PM »

I suppose the only benefit of the bridge collapsing is that the federal government will be forced to pony up money and get a much needed replacement in. It seems its the only way major infrastructure projects like this can get funded. Look at I-10 in Pensacola and I-10 in New Orleans that had major bridge replacements due to hurricane damage that was also able to sneak in making the new bridges 6 lanes vs. the old 4 lane ones. Then look at I-10 in Mobile which hasn't got any major damage and is going through a hurdle to find funding. One hurricane destroys it, they get a whole new Bayway funded by the federal government and no tolls.

If only the federal government would simply fund these projects without a disaster needing to happen...  :hmmm:
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kenarmy

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Re: I -40 Hernando Desoto Bridge at Memphis shutdown
« Reply #110 on: May 14, 2021, 10:16:52 PM »

WTF I just saw a VMS in Jackson MS informing drivers of the bridge being closed.
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Roadgeekteen

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Re: I -40 Hernando Desoto Bridge at Memphis shutdown
« Reply #111 on: May 14, 2021, 10:17:35 PM »

WTF I just saw a VMS in Jackson MS informing drivers of the bridge being closed.
Would traffic in Jackson MS ever even have a reason to use that bridge?

US 89

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Re: I -40 Hernando Desoto Bridge at Memphis shutdown
« Reply #112 on: May 14, 2021, 10:40:39 PM »

WTF I just saw a VMS in Jackson MS informing drivers of the bridge being closed.
Would traffic in Jackson MS ever even have a reason to use that bridge?

I-55 goes straight to Memphis from Jackson. It’s plenty direct to use I-240 to I-40 to cross the Mississippi there, and as a driver it could well be easier to go that way than to negotiate the cloverleaf at Crump. Plus the I-40 bridge has more lanes and is probably less congested normally than the one on I-55.

ilpt4u

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Re: I -40 Hernando Desoto Bridge at Memphis shutdown
« Reply #113 on: May 14, 2021, 11:01:25 PM »

WTF I just saw a VMS in Jackson MS informing drivers of the bridge being closed.
Would traffic in Jackson MS ever even have a reason to use that bridge?
Maybe, but even if I-55 Thru Traffic is planning to stick to I-55, the fact that the I-55 bridge is the only functional Memphis bridge is worth informing drivers of - to let them know long delays to cross the Mississippi at Memphis are to be expected

I would assume I-55N->I-40W traffic might be interested in the US 49/Helena bridge

From Jackson, a NB I-55 motorist has 3 other MS River bridge crossings available before Memphis: I-20 bridge, US 82/278 bridge, US 49 bridge.

Thru I-55 traffic would probably be more interested, as an Alternate, in following I-69/Future I-69/US 51 thru Memphis and then north up to I-155 and cross the MS River there to get back to I-55, should they want to avoid crossing on the now high demand I-55 bridge in Memphis
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bwana39

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Re: I -40 Hernando Desoto Bridge at Memphis shutdown
« Reply #114 on: May 14, 2021, 11:25:28 PM »

I'm amazed that the crack hasn't caused the bridge to fall into the river...yet. But there's absolutely no excuse for missing that flaw for two years.

Looking closely at the bridge, it looks like this beam is simply a redundant system. It would appear to help keep the bridge from moving horizontally outside the plane for the deck and truss.

Someone is gonna get it.....

Here is my guess. This crack was minimal around a decade ago, perhaps as long ago as the seismic retrofit. They marked it with tape. If the tape broke, it was expanding. If it didn't expand, it was no big deal. The tape was long forgotten.  It doesn't matter weather it is a car, an electronic circuit, or a bridge, the inspection is only as thorough as the inspection criteria and usually the inspection worksheet. The inspection focused on the truss (above), the support rods, and maybe the deck supports. A bridge inspection tends not to look at every inch or even every foot of a bridge. It only looks at critical elements, critical junctions, and items of particular note. Likely this beam was not on the checklist.

The inspection in 2019 was done by rappelling. This time, it happened to be spotted by a drone. This has probably been  as broken as it is now for close to a decade. I don't think this is a critical element, but if a critical element fails in the right place, with this break, it has no redundancy. 


Just my perception. Regardless, it needs to be fixed now not later.

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webny99

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Re: I -40 Hernando Desoto Bridge at Memphis shutdown
« Reply #115 on: May 14, 2021, 11:34:30 PM »

Thru I-55 traffic would probably be more interested, as an Alternate, in following I-69/Future I-69/US 51 thru Memphis and then north up to I-155 and cross the MS River there to get back to I-55, should they want to avoid crossing on the now high demand I-55 bridge in Memphis

I-155 is the obvious alternate for I-55 traffic, but it also makes sense for I-40 traffic. For Little Rock>Nashville, I-55 to I-155 to US 412 would seem to be a much better option than anything south of I-40 both mileage and time-wise, with the bonus of avoiding Memphis altogether.

There's probably not a ton of traffic making the I-55 NB to I-40 WB movement since most of that traffic is probably already using the Greenville Bridge... so I'd say in terms of alternates, it must be close to 80% to 20% in favor of I-155 over US 49.

cpzilliacus

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Re: I -40 Hernando Desoto Bridge at Memphis shutdown
« Reply #116 on: May 15, 2021, 07:42:36 AM »

If only the federal government would simply fund these projects without a disaster needing to happen...  :hmmm:

If only the U.S. House of Representatives and U.S. Senate would agree to a large (maybe 25˘ or more) increase in the per-gallon federal motor fuel tax rate to fund same.
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Avalanchez71

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Re: I -40 Hernando Desoto Bridge at Memphis shutdown
« Reply #117 on: May 15, 2021, 07:43:50 AM »

If only the federal government would simply fund these projects without a disaster needing to happen...  :hmmm:

If only the U.S. House of Representatives and U.S. Senate would agree to a large (maybe 25˘ or more) increase in the per-gallon federal motor fuel tax rate to fund same.

If only the feds would cut out pork spending and sending out money all over the world.  Please no new taxes.
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Wayward Memphian

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Re: I -40 Hernando Desoto Bridge at Memphis shutdown
« Reply #118 on: May 15, 2021, 09:05:28 AM »

WTF I just saw a VMS in Jackson MS informing drivers of the bridge being closed.
Would traffic in Jackson MS ever even have a reason to use that bridge?

I-55 goes straight to Memphis from Jackson. It’s plenty direct to use I-240 to I-40 to cross the Mississippi there, and as a driver it could well be easier to go that way than to negotiate the cloverleaf at Crump. Plus the I-40 bridge has more lanes and is probably less congested normally than the one on I-55.

Ding ding ding
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Wayward Memphian

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Re: I -40 Hernando Desoto Bridge at Memphis shutdown
« Reply #119 on: May 15, 2021, 09:08:21 AM »

If only the federal government would simply fund these projects without a disaster needing to happen...  :hmmm:

If only the U.S. House of Representatives and U.S. Senate would agree to a large (maybe 25˘ or more) increase in the per-gallon federal motor fuel tax rate to fund same.

And with the push to hybrid and electric how does that help?
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sprjus4

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Re: I -40 Hernando Desoto Bridge at Memphis shutdown
« Reply #120 on: May 15, 2021, 12:36:14 PM »

If only the federal government would simply fund these projects without a disaster needing to happen...  :hmmm:

If only the U.S. House of Representatives and U.S. Senate would agree to a large (maybe 25˘ or more) increase in the per-gallon federal motor fuel tax rate to fund same.

If only the feds would cut out pork spending and sending out money all over the world.  Please no new taxes.
And this is type of reason we will never see any large scale infrastructure projects built in this country again.
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Avalanchez71

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Re: I -40 Hernando Desoto Bridge at Memphis shutdown
« Reply #121 on: May 15, 2021, 12:56:18 PM »

Perhaps it is time for a supplemental ferry service to start up river and down river.
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sprjus4

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Re: I -40 Hernando Desoto Bridge at Memphis shutdown
« Reply #122 on: May 15, 2021, 01:06:19 PM »

Perhaps it is time for a supplemental ferry service to start up river and down river.
Ooh… here’s an idea. Build another crossing.
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bwana39

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Re: I -40 Hernando Desoto Bridge at Memphis shutdown
« Reply #123 on: May 15, 2021, 02:07:26 PM »

I am afraid the infrastructure that President Biden and Secretary Buttigieg are planning to foist upon us will have minimal impact on our highways and cargo railroads.  There might be repairs and improvements, but as far as added capacity, I just do not see any. They have a vapid disdain for highway transit. They seemingly want to force us to go green beyond technology and to make a clean break.

This MIGHT be of use if the rest of the world were onboard, but China (the largest polluter), India, and the third world will be decades behind us if ever.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2021, 02:38:54 PM by bwana39 »
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sprjus4

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Re: I -40 Hernando Desoto Bridge at Memphis shutdown
« Reply #124 on: May 15, 2021, 02:53:59 PM »

I am afraid the infrastructure that President Biden and Secretary Buttigieg are planning to foist upon us will have minimal impact on our highways and cargo railroads.  There might be repairs and improvements, but as far as added capacity, I just do not see any. They have a vapid disdain for highway transit. They seemingly want to force us to go green beyond technology and to make a clean break.

This MIGHT be of use if the rest of the world were onboard, but China (the largest polluter), India, and the third world will be decades behind us if ever.
Which is why the whole concept of this being an "infrastructure" bill is misleading and why it cannot pass bipartisanly. Perhaps if the current administration would remove political agendas from the proposal and limited it solely to true infrastructure - roads, bridges, etc. - it would easily pass on a bipartisan level with little opposition.

The current plan calls to spend the vast majority toward non-infrastructure projects and doesn't majorly address problems on the nation's highway system. How about funding for new interstate highway corridors that are decades old proposed and can't get built due to limited funding? Or major widening projects across long-distance major freight corridors that often have rolling backups? Major bridge replacements across major rivers, other stuff like the Atchafalaya Basin Bridge. There's a lot of potential to significant expand the government role in actually finally getting needed projects done, but it will never happen. Either the proposals provide too little funding or in this case focus on almost "pet projects" that don't have the benefits of true infrastructure improvements.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2021, 02:56:44 PM by sprjus4 »
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