"Improvements" that made things worse

[wxfree]

The junction of I-35W and FM 917 just south of Burleson, Texas has been a mess for years.  FM 917 is a two-lane road the whole way.  The junction previously had two all-way stops at the frontage roads, which were two-way until several years ago.  Changing the frontage roads to one-way operation helped a little, by reducing the number of left turns.

Recently, traffic signals were installed, which theoretically would let more vehicles through without stopping and improve flow.  However, the busier side of FM 917, eastbound, has gotten worse.  Much of the eastbound traffic turns left to go north on the Interstate.  There's no left-turn lane, and no protected left turn phase.  Because of that, all westbound vehicles go first, and traffic in that direction is much improved, but only one or a few vehicles on the eastbound side progress in each cycle.  Eastbound traffic backs up more than before.  Even on weekends, when there would be just a few vehicles at the stop sign before, there is now a line past the warning sign for the traffic signal that moves incredibly slowly.  I've always avoided the area during rush hour, but I'd imagine that line is to Hell and back.

There are long-term plans to add a new bridge and more lanes to FM 917.  I don't know why there isn't a green arrow for the east-to-north movement.  It would be asymmetrical, but that movement is by far the busiest through the signal and needs the most time.  I have great respect for the field of engineering, but I also have a lot of experience in manufacturing, and I've seen what happens when there's a difference between what the engineers say is the "correct" way and what actually works.  What happens is that the engineers don't like that we have the machines on the "wrong" settings and place labels telling us what is "correct," just so we know that they're frowning when we do it the way that works.  Hopefully, when their work is visible to the public, on a road and not inside a factory, they'll be more open to adjusting things to reality.  What are your experiences with improvements that made things worse?

[webny99]

Slightly different context, but here's a related thread I started a few years back.

[Avalanchez71]

Expanding I-65 from 4 to 8 lanes has done nothing but change the choke point and just expanded growth in Williamson County, TN.

[Roadgeekteen]

My family has expressed frustration with Drum Hill Square in Chelmsford.

[hotdogPi]

My family has expressed frustration with Drum Hill Square in Chelmsford.

Which improvements are you talking about? Installing traffic signals? (I believe it was previously unsignalized.)

[Roadgeekteen]

My family has expressed frustration with Drum Hill Square in Chelmsford.

Which improvements are you talking about? Installing traffic signals? (I believe it was previously unsignalized.)

Didn't it used to be a rotary?

[hotdogPi]

My family has expressed frustration with Drum Hill Square in Chelmsford.

Which improvements are you talking about? Installing traffic signals? (I believe it was previously unsignalized.)

Didn't it used to be a rotary?

Yes. The installation of traffic signals there is widely considered a genuine improvement.

[hbelkins]

Building a roundabout in (insert name of any location where a roundabout has been built.)

[kphoger]

Building a roundabout in (insert name of any location where a roundabout has been built.)

You're saying that every single roundabout project made things worse?

[webny99]

Building a roundabout in (insert name of any location where a roundabout has been built.)

You're saying that every single roundabout project made things worse?

Here's a scorching take:

Every single roundabout that replaced a traffic signal made things worse.
Every single roundabout that replaced a stop sign made things better.

[andrepoiy]

These median bus lanes, were built to speed up bus traffic and make a Bus Rapid Transit system...

Except...

THE BUS COMES EVERY 15-30 MINUTES (depending on time of day)!!!! Completely defeats the purpose of a BRT system.

I feel like this would be justified if the bus headways were like 5 minutes or less, but otherwise, it only slows down car traffic. This is because 1) Protected left turn for every fucking intersection, 2) No more right turn lanes, and 3) None of the traffic lights are synchronized.

[kphoger]

These median bus lanes, were built to speed up bus traffic and make a Bus Rapid Transit system...

Except...

THE BUS COMES EVERY 15-30 MINUTES (depending on time of day)!!!! Completely defeats the purpose of a BRT system.

I feel like this would be justified if the bus headways were like 5 minutes or less, but otherwise, it only slows down car traffic. This is because 1) Protected left turn for every fucking intersection, 2) No more right turn lanes, and 3) None of the traffic lights are synchronized.

So was the transit system there better beforehand?  Or is it only the stoplights and lack of turn lanes that got worse?

[OCGuy81]

Building a roundabout in (insert name of any location where a roundabout has been built.)

You're saying that every single roundabout project made things worse?

I disagree.  I've actually grown to like them.  There's no shortage of them in Bend, and they seem to work just fine here.

[andrepoiy]

These median bus lanes, were built to speed up bus traffic and make a Bus Rapid Transit system...

Except...

THE BUS COMES EVERY 15-30 MINUTES (depending on time of day)!!!! Completely defeats the purpose of a BRT system.

I feel like this would be justified if the bus headways were like 5 minutes or less, but otherwise, it only slows down car traffic. This is because 1) Protected left turn for every fucking intersection, 2) No more right turn lanes, and 3) None of the traffic lights are synchronized.

So was the transit system there better beforehand?  Or is it only the stoplights and lack of turn lanes that got worse?

Well, the transit was absolutely not better beforehand, so yeah, everything else got worse

[TheHighwayMan3561]

In the Twin Cities (well on the metro fringe), the RCI built at TH-65 and Viking Blvd.

[SEWIGuy]

Building a roundabout in (insert name of any location where a roundabout has been built.)

You're saying that every single roundabout project made things worse?

I disagree.  I've actually grown to like them.  There's no shortage of them in Bend, and they seem to work just fine here.

Yeah I live in the Green Bay area, and they are all over the place up here.  And they are just fine.

[SSR_317]

Building a roundabout in (insert name of any location where a roundabout has been built.)

Try telling that to the mayor of Carmel, IN (the Roundabout Capital of the World)!

[roadman65]

I-4 merge onto I-75 north near Tampa. All it did was relocate the squeeze point a mile north of what it was supposed to eliminate.

[kphoger]

I-4 merge onto I-75 north near Tampa. All it did was relocate the squeeze point a mile north of what it was supposed to eliminate.

You make it sound like it's merely not better now–not that it's actually worse.

[sprjus4]

Expanding I-65 from 4 to 8 lanes has done nothing but change the choke point and just expanded growth in Williamson County, TN.

Perhaps the needed solution is to widen I-65 further south to 6 or 8 lanes... but haven't you opposed that too?

[Scott5114]

Building a roundabout in (insert name of any location where a roundabout has been built.)

You're saying that every single roundabout project made things worse?

I disagree.  I've actually grown to like them.  There's no shortage of them in Bend, and they seem to work just fine here.

They're much preferable to five-way (or more) intersections.

[sprjus4]

I-95 widening between the Capital Beltway (I-495) and the Occoquan River from 6 to 8 lanes. I'm not opposed to concept of widening, but the location they chose to put the 4th lane drop just south of the river has done nothing but create a chokepoint that is there over half the day, and starts around noon and lasts until well after rush hour. And extends for miles north.

The true answer is to widen the highway to 8 lanes down to Fredericksburg, or at least to VA-234, but VDOT has shot down any potential future widening projects, so that's never going away.

Another major chokepoint is the southern end of the HO/T lanes near Stafford, with all the HO/T traffic merging into the GP lanes, however once the southern extension of the lanes to Fredericksburg (currently under construction) is finally done, that should eliminate that bottleneck. The southern extension will tie into a project that is widening the highway to 12 lanes in the Fredericksburg region, and at that point volumes fall off significantly going south, so there should be no more bottleneck that's merely "shifted" .

[kphoger]

Building a roundabout in (insert name of any location where a roundabout has been built.)

You're saying that every single roundabout project made things worse?

I disagree.  I've actually grown to like them.  There's no shortage of them in Bend, and they seem to work just fine here.

They're much preferable to five-way (or more) intersections.

Yeah, the Skaggs roundabout in Branson (MO) was quite a bit worse back when it was a five-way stoplight.

[ran4sh]

The typical "improvement" that makes things worse is widening a road to increase a 1-lane left turn into a 2-lane left turn when that turn is signalized.

This is because a 1-lane left turn can be controlled by a permissive-protected signal, while 2-lane left turns must generally be controlled by protected-only signals (cue the few users on here that think multi-lane permissive left turns should be allowed).

My opinion is that it should only occur when traffic has gotten to the point that little to no traffic is able to make the left during the permissive phase.

[sprjus4]

(cue the few users on here that think multi-lane permissive left turns should be allowed).

And do exist in some states.