AASHTO Spring 2021 Meeting

[Rothman]

From now on, I-375 is unambiguously the Northern long ramp from I-275 to Downtown St. Petersburg, Florida.

Only when they demolish the Detroit route in 2027 (or sooner). The clarification AASHTO asked for says that MDOT are getting in the paperwork early with AASHTO/FHWA, but the route won't be eliminated until the roadway is also eliminated as a route you can drive on.

MDOT...and Detroit...in FL?

[Mapmikey]

From now on, I-375 is unambiguously the Northern long ramp from I-275 to Downtown St. Petersburg, Florida.

Only when they demolish the Detroit route in 2027 (or sooner). The clarification AASHTO asked for says that MDOT are getting in the paperwork early with AASHTO/FHWA, but the route won't be eliminated until the roadway is also eliminated as a route you can drive on.

I am skeptical I-430 is being changed.  The descriptions don't actually describe anything other than US 70 old and new routings, the way I read it.

Fully concur. Though is it US70, or US70 Business, that's actually being rerouted?

US 70.  US 70 Business has been gone a while in Little Rock.

ARDOT action to do this the current rerouting is on page 11 - https://www.ardot.gov/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Admin-Cir.-2021-02-Minutes-of-the-Dec.-9-AHC-Meeting.pdf

[Crown Victoria]

I've gotten an email from the USRNC contact, and they said that they are in the process of adding the 2016-present USRNC decisions onto the big database sometime later this month.

CORRECTION: The USRNC member emailed me a PDF with the final decisions. Hopefully this link works. Among the changes confirmed are:

Part of I-430 is being eliminated.

I-375 in Michigan and I-481 in New York have been decommissioned.

I-587 in North Carolina has been conditionally approved.

Various USBRs in California, Ohio, Utah, and Washington have been approved.

Thank you for reaching out to them. Hopefully they'll be a little quicker with the fall results.

[hbelkins]

I-375 in Michigan and I-481 in New York have been decommissioned.

Why?

[Mapmikey]

I-375 in Michigan and I-481 in New York have been decommissioned.

Why?

So that I-81 can be put on it and so I-81's former routing can be I-81 BL...

[WillWeaverRVA]

The actual report is here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/125edrwda3y1bmw/Final%20_Report_USRN%20Application%20Results%20Spring%202021.pdf?dl=0&fbclid=IwAR2rFGGv8FpX2xDmWBFOkuEdvVeDhAuQdBhh5cidRCTs4KoJ3cmb_n_XeaU

I particularly like this proposal:

"Relocation of U.S. 412 between U.S. 412 between U.S. Highway 412 on the west side of the City of Paragould and U.S. Highway 412 on the east side of the City of Paragould."

[english si]

MDOT...and Detroit...in FL?

They are getting rid of the Detroit version, leaving only one I-375 (in Florida), which is what CNGL was talking about. My point was that it is a future change, not a now change and so CNGL's comment was jumping the gun somewhat.

Why?

So that I-81 can be put on it and so I-81's former routing can be I-81 BL...

I-481 doesn't need to be decommissioned so that I-81 can use that roadway. It's the other way around - because I-81 has been rerouted onto its route, there's no independent mileage of I-481 and so it might as well be decommissioned.

US 70 Business has been gone a while in Little Rock.

My confusion comes from mapping sources
still having it as business route (Google, OSM) and Travel Mapping likewise. Oh, and the signs coming off of I-30 onto it, which have US70B according to Mar '20 Streetview.

At least this rerouting will prompt the removal of incorrect references to US70B!

[Mapmikey]

MDOT...and Detroit...in FL?

They are getting rid of the Detroit version, leaving only one I-375 (in Florida), which is what CNGL was talking about. My point was that it is a future change, not a now change and so CNGL's comment was jumping the gun somewhat.

Why?

So that I-81 can be put on it and so I-81's former routing can be I-81 BL...

I-481 doesn't need to be decommissioned so that I-81 can use that roadway. It's the other way around - because I-81 has been rerouted onto its route, there's no independent mileage of I-481 and so it might as well be decommissioned.

US 70 Business has been gone a while in Little Rock.

My confusion comes from mapping sources
still having it as business route (Google, OSM) and Travel Mapping likewise. Oh, and the signs coming off of I-30 onto it, which have US70B according to Mar '20 Streetview.

At least this rerouting will prompt the removal of incorrect references to US70B!

It looks like a bunch of 70B shields were removed between 2007 and 2008 GMSV throughout Little Rock.  I searched ARDOT minutes back to the 1980s and found no evidence of its creation or its revocation.

[Avalanchez71]

MDOT...and Detroit...in FL?

They are getting rid of the Detroit version, leaving only one I-375 (in Florida), which is what CNGL was talking about. My point was that it is a future change, not a now change and so CNGL's comment was jumping the gun somewhat.

Why?

So that I-81 can be put on it and so I-81's former routing can be I-81 BL...

I-481 doesn't need to be decommissioned so that I-81 can use that roadway. It's the other way around - because I-81 has been rerouted onto its route, there's no independent mileage of I-481 and so it might as well be decommissioned.

US 70 Business has been gone a while in Little Rock.

My confusion comes from mapping sources
still having it as business route (Google, OSM) and Travel Mapping likewise. Oh, and the signs coming off of I-30 onto it, which have US70B according to Mar '20 Streetview.

At least this rerouting will prompt the removal of incorrect references to US70B!

It looks like a bunch of 70B shields were removed between 2007 and 2008 GMSV throughout Little Rock.  I searched ARDOT minutes back to the 1980s and found no evidence of its creation or its revocation.

Little Rock or Pulaski County installs?

[CNGL-Leudimin]

If I read correctly, two Alt US 301s are going up in Florida. Although per the route descriptions it would make more sense to sign them as Byp US 301 (or even better, as "plain" US 301, with the routes through the towns changed to Bus US 301 or turned back).

I-481 doesn't need to be decommissioned so that I-81 can use that roadway. It's the other way around - because I-81 has been rerouted onto its route, there's no independent mileage of I-481 and so it might as well be decommissioned.

In that vein, I'm still waiting on WISDOT to send an application asking for the removal of I-894, since it has been redundant to I-41 for a while now.

[Mapmikey]

MDOT...and Detroit...in FL?

They are getting rid of the Detroit version, leaving only one I-375 (in Florida), which is what CNGL was talking about. My point was that it is a future change, not a now change and so CNGL's comment was jumping the gun somewhat.

Why?

So that I-81 can be put on it and so I-81's former routing can be I-81 BL...

I-481 doesn't need to be decommissioned so that I-81 can use that roadway. It's the other way around - because I-81 has been rerouted onto its route, there's no independent mileage of I-481 and so it might as well be decommissioned.

US 70 Business has been gone a while in Little Rock.

My confusion comes from mapping sources
still having it as business route (Google, OSM) and Travel Mapping likewise. Oh, and the signs coming off of I-30 onto it, which have US70B according to Mar '20 Streetview.

At least this rerouting will prompt the removal of incorrect references to US70B!

It looks like a bunch of 70B shields were removed between 2007 and 2008 GMSV throughout Little Rock.  I searched ARDOT minutes back to the 1980s and found no evidence of its creation or its revocation.

Little Rock or Pulaski County installs?

The entirety of the route is within the city limits per Google maps

[TheHighwayMan3561]

In that vein, I'm still waiting on WISDOT to send an application asking for the removal of I-894, since it has been redundant to I-41 for a while now.

Well, you're gonna keep waiting and hoping, as has been explained to you numerous times that WisDOT is on public record saying they are not going to do this and their reasons why.

[Alex]

If I read correctly, two Alt US 301s are going up in Florida. Although per the route descriptions it would make more sense to sign them as Byp US 301 (or even better, as "plain" US 301, with the routes through the towns changed to Bus US 301 or turned back).

Signed in 2019, the Starke Truck Route is U.S. 301 ALT. U.S. 301 remains through the city of Starke in an effort to keep some traffic for businesses on the mainline...

Completed in December 2020, the Baldwin Bypass is U.S. 301 By Pass. I noticed the AASHTO item description for it references the generic " U.S. Alternate Route" without 301. I don't know why the U.S. 301 mainline wasn't simply rerouted to avoid the railroad grade crossings there.

[Avalanchez71]

If I read correctly, two Alt US 301s are going up in Florida. Although per the route descriptions it would make more sense to sign them as Byp US 301 (or even better, as "plain" US 301, with the routes through the towns changed to Bus US 301 or turned back).

Signed in 2019, the Starke Truck Route is U.S. 301 ALT. U.S. 301 remains through the city of Starke in an effort to keep some traffic for businesses on the mainline...

Completed in December 2020, the Baldwin Bypass is U.S. 301 By Pass. I noticed the AASHTO item description for it references the generic " U.S. Alternate Route" without 301. I don't know why the U.S. 301 mainline wasn't simply rerouted to avoid the railroad grade crossings there.

I would imangine that the BY-PASS signs will stay up.  Do you think they will change them to ALT signs?

[hbelkins]

So the rerouting of I-81 onto the bypass and the demolition of existing I-81 is a done deal?

Can't say I think that decision is a good one. Of course, I quit following the debate on that a long time ago.

[NE2]

In that vein, I'm still waiting on WISDOT to send an application asking for the removal of I-894, since it has been redundant to I-41 for a while now.

Well, you're gonna keep waiting and hoping, as has been explained to you numerous times that WisDOT is on public record saying they are not going to do this and their reasons why.

[Rothman]

So the rerouting of I-81 onto the bypass and the demolition of existing I-81 is a done deal?

Unless massive political pressure is brought to bear, yes.

[mvak36]

Looks like they posted the applications on the site: https://route.transportation.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2021/08/USRN-Applications_Compiled_2021.pdf

[NE2]

Looks like they posted the applications on the site: https://route.transportation.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2021/08/USRN-Applications_Compiled_2021.pdf

What a jumble. Here's the rough order of everything:
NY I-481 elimination
FL US 301A establishment (Baldwin)
FL US 301A establishment (Starke)
IA/IL I-74/US 6 relocation (new bridge)
NY BL I-81 establishment
NY I-81 relocation
IN I-69 extension
NY US 9 relocation (closed ramp in Albany)
NC I-587 establishment
NC US 64B establishment (Asheboro)
NC US 64 relocation (Asheboro)
MI I-375 elimination
SD US 18By elimination (Hot Springs)
SD US 18 relocation (Hot Springs)
SD US 385 extension (Hot Springs) - but nothing is changing with 385
KY US 68 relocation, US 68B establishment (Millersburg)
AR US 70 elimination, relocation (Little Rock)
AR US 412B establishment (Paragould)
AR US 412 relocation (Paragould) - replaces US 412S

https://route.transportation.org/past-meetings/ also has the bike routes:
CA USBR 66 establishment
CA USBR 50 relocation (Forni Road -> El Dorado Trail/Oriental Street near Diamond Springs)
CA USBR 95 establishment
FL USBR 1 relocation (Key West)
IN USBR 235 establishment
OH USBR 21 establishment
OH USBR 25, 225 establishment
OH USBR 30, 230 establishment
WA USBR 40 establishment
OH USBR 44 establishment
WA USBR 20 establishment
WA USBR 81 establishment
WA USBR 281 establishment
UT USBR 70 relocation (error correction only?)
UT USBR 77 establishment
UT USBR 79 extension
UT USBR 677 establishment
UT USBR 679 establishment
UT USBR 877 establishment

[US 89]

UT USBR 70 relocation (error correction only?)

From what I can tell, nothing about USBR 70 actually changed with this round of applications. The old definition was Cedar City to Colorado via 14-Mammoth Creek-143-89-12-24-95-191-491, and that is still the case in these new documents. All that changed was that it is now concurrent with USBR 79 between Cedar City and the US 89/SR 12 junction.

[cl94]

So NYSDOT didn't even submit the application to relocate US 9 until after the ramp was permanently closed. Pfft.

[froggie]

^ Wouldn't be the first time a DOT submitted an application after the fact...

[hbelkins]

Regarding the USBRs, Kentucky is signing 21 now.

[english si]

So NYSDOT didn't even submit the application to relocate US 9 until after the ramp was permanently closed. Pfft.

But managed to do the Syracuse stuff 6 years in advance. Michigan's I-375 downgrade application required clarification as it wasn't clear when this was happening with a similar timeframe as Syracuse (2027).

Didn't one state submit a load of applications a couple of years ago as bypasses built in the 60s and 70s hadn't been submitted and so the reality and what AASHTO had had been wrong for about half-a-century?

Not AASHTO, but Hungary submitted an application to the UNECE Committee on Road Transport to extend E66 to get the OK a couple of years before they were going to do it. It was accepted, they did it, they then submitted a very similar application after they had done it as they forgotten they had already done it ~5 years previously (which was then withdrawn as it was pointed out that it had been done).

[74/171FAN]

Didn't one state submit a load of applications a couple of years ago as bypasses built in the 60s and 70s hadn't been submitted and so the reality and what AASHTO had had been wrong for about half-a-century?

That was Arkansas.