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SR 316 in GA

Started by Georgia Guardrail, July 27, 2022, 11:31:30 AM

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Georgia Guardrail

I know there are plans to upgrade SR 316 into a freeway all the way through Lawrenceville. 

Are they going to eventually end up converting SR 316 into a freeway all the way to Athens?  Looks like they are upgrading busy intersections to interchanges here and there.  They might as well upgrade the entire corridor since Athens has a lot of population growth and as of now no direct freeway connection.


Tomahawkin

It's not just Athens that is experiencing population growth, every single town from Duluth to Athens along 316 is experiencing growth. I said it a decade ago that 316 should be 8 lanes from 85 to Athens with a toll lane in each direction (so 3 main purpose lanes). Many of the bridges along that route need to be replaced. IMO

ran4sh

Quote from: Georgia Guardrail on July 27, 2022, 11:31:30 AM
Are they going to eventually end up converting SR 316 into a freeway all the way to Athens?

Yes but I'm not sure I'll be around to see it.

It was an error to leave Athens off the Interstate system in the first place. I-85 should have gone through the Gainesville area with a 3-digit route going to the Athens area, instead I-85 was built in between.
Control cities CAN be off the route! Control cities make NO sense if signs end before the city is reached!

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US 89

Quote from: ran4sh on July 27, 2022, 11:01:15 PM
Quote from: Georgia Guardrail on July 27, 2022, 11:31:30 AM
Are they going to eventually end up converting SR 316 into a freeway all the way to Athens?

Yes but I'm not sure I'll be around to see it.

It was an error to leave Athens off the Interstate system in the first place. I-85 should have gone through the Gainesville area with a 3-digit route going to the Athens area, instead I-85 was built in between.

Agreed. Plus even in SC a lot more of the population southwest of Greenville is along US 123 than I-85.

I-85 is a weird animal as far as Georgia Interstates go anyway, because it's just about the only one that wasn't built right along a pre-existing US route corridor. Instead, it followed GA 124 and GA 59, which more or less splits the difference between US 23/123 and US 29. I suppose I-16 didn't quite follow US 80 and kind of splits the difference between 80 and 280 in parts, but nothing along either of those routes that 16 misses is as big as Athens or Gainesville.

Tom958

With minimal effort, I found this handout about an upcoming package of projects in Barrow County. It would systematically convert the entire corridor to controlled access rather than building isolated interchanges at various locations. I suppose that similar plans exist for the entire corridor.

To me, it would've made a lot more sense to start work in the west and work eastward so there'd be freeway, then construction zone, then not freeway as opposed to having at-grade intersections interspersed randomly along what drivers probably mistakenly perceive as a freeway. Besides, traffic volumes and actual delays are greatest in Gwinnett. Even within Gwinnett, though, I don't see why they didn't add the latest interchange at Hi Hope Road rather than way out at Harbins Road. 

Tom958

Quote from: ran4sh on July 27, 2022, 11:01:15 PMIt was an error to leave Athens off the Interstate system in the first place. I-85 should have gone through the Gainesville area with a 3-digit route going to the Athens area, instead I-85 was built in between.

FWIW, this is my idea of how I-85 should've been routed. Had this been done, I-85 would've been almost as direct to Greenville as the chosen route is, and the spur to Athens would've been only about fifteen miles long and could've doubled as US 129. The obvious drawback is that it would've provided poor service to Gainesville to and from the north. As it happens, though, the four-lane US 129 connection between I-85 and Gainesville has only recently been completed, so it must not have been that important.


RoadWarrior56

If you find a 1960 Rand McNally Atlas, you will see that the original proposed routing of I-85 was using the Gainesville/US 23/US 123 corridor, approximately following the SR 365/I-985 routing.  Based on my knowledge of the history of the routing of I-85, this was the original preferred routing of I-85, and also routing it closer to Athens was also studied.  I believe the current routing was adopted for one due its shorter length and lower cost, and because the Georgia Governor at that time was from Lavonia, and he wanted the interstate routed by his home town.  SR 365 (later I-985) was then added to the system as a consolation prize for Gainesville.

ran4sh

Quote from: Tom958 on July 28, 2022, 05:49:38 AM
Quote from: ran4sh on July 27, 2022, 11:01:15 PMIt was an error to leave Athens off the Interstate system in the first place. I-85 should have gone through the Gainesville area with a 3-digit route going to the Athens area, instead I-85 was built in between.

FWIW, this is my idea of how I-85 should've been routed. Had this been done, I-85 would've been almost as direct to Greenville as the chosen route is, and the spur to Athens would've been only about fifteen miles long and could've doubled as US 129. The obvious drawback is that it would've provided poor service to Gainesville to and from the north. As it happens, though, the four-lane US 129 connection between I-85 and Gainesville has only recently been completed, so it must not have been that important.


With that map we would see Arcade police setting up speed traps along I-85 as well as US 129
Control cities CAN be off the route! Control cities make NO sense if signs end before the city is reached!

Travel Mapping - Most Traveled: I-40, 20, 10, 5, 95 - Longest Clinched: I-20, 85, 24, 16, NJ Tpk mainline
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Henry

IDK, the current I-85 routing makes the most sense to me, because it's equidistant to both Athens and Gainesville, as well as a straight shot between Atlanta and Greenville. Sure, Gainesville would've benefitted better from the mainline going through, but Athens and points south would get shortchanged by it. So thanks to the governor, both towns got equal access to the alignment that ended up being built, with I-985 allowing Gainesville to be served by an Interstate anyway.
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Georgia Guardrail

Quote from: Tom958 on July 28, 2022, 05:22:28 AM
With minimal effort, I found this handout about an upcoming package of projects in Barrow County. It would systematically convert the entire corridor to controlled access rather than building isolated interchanges at various locations. I suppose that similar plans exist for the entire corridor.

To me, it would've made a lot more sense to start work in the west and work eastward so there'd be freeway, then construction zone, then not freeway as opposed to having at-grade intersections interspersed randomly along what drivers probably mistakenly perceive as a freeway. Besides, traffic volumes and actual delays are greatest in Gwinnett. Even within Gwinnett, though, I don't see why they didn't add the latest interchange at Hi Hope Road rather than way out at Harbins Road.

Ideally, I think they should make the whole SR 316 a freeway with an access road on the side.  Like US 183 in Austin, TX. 

Alex

Quote from: RoadWarrior56 on July 28, 2022, 06:29:05 AM
If you find a 1960 Rand McNally Atlas, you will see that the original proposed routing of I-85 was using the Gainesville/US 23/US 123 corridor, approximately following the SR 365/I-985 routing.  Based on my knowledge of the history of the routing of I-85, this was the original preferred routing of I-85, and also routing it closer to Athens was also studied.  I believe the current routing was adopted for one due its shorter length and lower cost, and because the Georgia Governor at that time was from Lavonia, and he wanted the interstate routed by his home town.  SR 365 (later I-985) was then added to the system as a consolation prize for Gainesville.

Governor Ernest Vandiver was responsible for the southward shift. I cover the alignment changes with some research I did years ago on https://www.interstate-guide.com/i-085/

Also scanned my 1960 Rand at the time to show that northern alignment you referenced:


Tom958

#11
Quote from: Alex on July 28, 2022, 11:30:11 PMGovernor Ernest Vandiver was responsible for the southward shift. I cover the alignment changes with some research I did years ago on https://www.interstate-guide.com/i-085/

Also scanned my 1960 Rand at the time to show that northern alignment you referenced:

Thanks for that! I've read a credible debunking of the claim that I-85's routing was a cynical political exercise by Vandiver, and my opinion is that the current routing is reasonable, though I think I'm in the minority on that.

Your article states that "Construction eventually opened 67 miles of Interstate 85 between Suwanee and the South Carolina state line on November 5, 1965." Best I can tell a lengthy portion north of Commerce was opened well before that. That's per the 1964 atlas by oft-erroneous Rand McNally plus a friend who has a hard copy of the 1964 official state map, which isn't available online. I do know from field observation and bridgereports.com that the more northerly bridges were built in 1962 while the southerly ones date from 1964, so it's logical that some part of that stretch would've been opened earlier.

Quote from: RoadWarrior56 on July 28, 2022, 06:29:05 AM
If you find a 1960 Rand McNally Atlas, you will see that the original proposed routing of I-85 was using the Gainesville/US 23/US 123 corridor, approximately following the SR 365/I-985 routing. 

Not really. It's quite a bit further east, further east of legacy US 23 than current US 23-GA 365 is to the west. Which is probably for the best, since the route of the four-lane relocation of US 123 includes a lengthy grade that's too steep for a major highway.



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