Interstate 11

[Bobby5280]

I would estimate most traffic would follow I-11 to I-10, then head east. It's less direct, but it'd be significantly faster than slogging up city streets.

The fastest route from Wickenburg to Phoenix is taking US-60 from Wickenburg down to Loop 303. There is a lot of driveways and at-grade intersections along the way, but not what I would call "slogging" in the style of Grand Avenue within Phoenix. There are two traffic signals along US-60 between Wickenburg and Loop 303, and one of those signals is the first intersection NW of the Loop 303/US-60 interchange.

If I-11 is built way the hell out West past Barry Goldwater Peak and damned near to Tonopah it will give Vegas-to-Phoenix travelers every incentive to get off I-11 at Wickenburg and take US-60 the rest of the way into the metro area. Once they reach Loop 303 the drivers can disperse in whatever direction they like on the freeway system.

A separate I-11 corridor south of I-8 is simply gratuitous; just another place to put more housing.  But then, expecting different behavior from developers is an exercise in futility; if they can't get what they want through the front door, they simply carve out plans for a new back door!

I guess these developers pushing for this out of the way (and porky) extension of I-11 think there aren't any practical limits to growth out there. Suburbs may be popular, but people are going to move only so far a distance away from the urban center. The cost of fuel can turn into a big problem for people living way out in the exhurbs. These developers are trying to divert I-11 so far around the Phoenix metro that there won't be anything in terms of infrastructure for their projects. Water and sewage service, trash removal, police/fire depts and public schools are essential ingredients. So is high speed Internet access. Good Internet quality is a big freaking problem out in the sticks. Let's also not forget water is in critically short supply out there. I-11 going West and South around Phoenix could end up being a road to nowhere.

[sprjus4]

A completed I-11 to I-10 from Wickenburg to Downtown Phoenix would take around 55 minutes, given a 75 mph speed limit on the new I-11 alignment. The existing travel time estimate on US-60 to Loop 303 is around 60 minutes.

Most people will likely follow the faster, and more reliable interstate route as opposed to US-60.

[triplemultiplex]

I personally think it's foolish to assume Phoenix will physically be able to sprawl out as far as I-11 is proposed to go.  What the hell are those people going to drink?  They have no new places to get water in that part of the world, so what are they going to do?  They ain't getting ours!

[sparker]

I would estimate most traffic would follow I-11 to I-10, then head east. It's less direct, but it'd be significantly faster than slogging up city streets.

The fastest route from Wickenburg to Phoenix is taking US-60 from Wickenburg down to Loop 303. There is a lot of driveways and at-grade intersections along the way, but not what I would call "slogging" in the style of Grand Avenue within Phoenix. There are two traffic signals along US-60 between Wickenburg and Loop 303, and one of those signals is the first intersection NW of the Loop 303/US-60 interchange.

If I-11 is built way the hell out West past Barry Goldwater Peak and damned near to Tonopah it will give Vegas-to-Phoenix travelers every incentive to get off I-11 at Wickenburg and take US-60 the rest of the way into the metro area. Once they reach Loop 303 the drivers can disperse in whatever direction they like on the freeway system.

A separate I-11 corridor south of I-8 is simply gratuitous; just another place to put more housing.  But then, expecting different behavior from developers is an exercise in futility; if they can't get what they want through the front door, they simply carve out plans for a new back door!

I guess these developers pushing for this out of the way (and porky) extension of I-11 think there aren't any practical limits to growth out there. Suburbs may be popular, but people are going to move only so far a distance away from the urban center. The cost of fuel can turn into a big problem for people living way out in the exhurbs. These developers are trying to divert I-11 so far around the Phoenix metro that there won't be anything in terms of infrastructure for their projects. Water and sewage service, trash removal, police/fire depts and public schools are essential ingredients. So is high speed Internet access. Good Internet quality is a big freaking problem out in the sticks. Let's also not forget water is in critically short supply out there. I-11 going West and South around Phoenix could end up being a road to nowhere.

I think what the developers have in mind for any corridor paralleling I-10/I-19 to the west is a completely new city functioning as an alternate to Tucson itself.  It's not as if there hasn't been precedence for this right in AZ; heading east, the domino chain of Tempe, Mesa, Chandler, Gilbert, and even Apache Junction all developed as exurbs with their own independent spheres of influence and functionality; there just isn't a sense of dependence or even connection to central Phoenix except for governmental issues.  It's likely that if the word "community" is uttered in the regional exurbs the response will be likely eyes glazing over or at best quizzical looks!  Unlike urban regions that primarily developed in the 19th or early 20th centuries, much of the population consists of folks with roots elsewhere; they came to AZ for (a) the warm weather, (b) a lower overall tax base than they previously experienced, or (c) to get away from the vagaries of "traditional" urban life.  Since we try not to do politics in this forum, I'll only casually mention that some move to S. AZ. because the political climate is more to their suiting -- period.  About the only thing that will get a real collective rise here is something that arouses the NIMBY within the residential populace (more likely than not one of the factors prompting AZDOT to route I-11 around the western perimeter than march it down US 60).  But that type of attitude also produces "blind spots"; once established in a particular location, these folks tend to think little or nothing about development elsewhere that doesn't directly or immediately affect them (the region seems to attract those with a definitive "libertarian" streak).  So a Sun City resident wouldn't be likely to get up in arms about some developer plopping down a new town somewhere west of Tucson.  Regardless of talk about AZ becoming more "blue" than in the past, the sensibilities that would cause blood boiling on the coasts dissipate somewhere along the journey to south Arizona.

I personally think it's foolish to assume Phoenix will physically be able to sprawl out as far as I-11 is proposed to go.  What the hell are those people going to drink?  They have no new places to get water in that part of the world, so what are they going to do?  They ain't getting ours!

They're waiting for one of their periodic monsoons to refill Lakes Powell and Mead!  Seriously, that's one of the factors that would precipitate (ironic word here!) a regional growth slowdown, particularly if the local water agencies are forced to either directly ration water or, more likely, just kick water prices skyward to try to accomplish the same task.  Whether that has the effect of altering road plans depends upon the "lag time" of the aggregate effects of an acute water shortage.  Chances are that the I-11 path north of I-10 is now officially set; where it goes south of there would probably be one of the first effects of such a shortfall -- chances are that it would just ride AZ 85 south to Gila Bend in that case. 

[Sub-Urbanite]

I personally think it's foolish to assume Phoenix will physically be able to sprawl out as far as I-11 is proposed to go.  What the hell are those people going to drink?  They have no new places to get water in that part of the world, so what are they going to do?  They ain't getting ours!

There will always be water. It's a question of how much people are willing to pay for it.

[Plutonic Panda]

I personally think it's foolish to assume Phoenix will physically be able to sprawl out as far as I-11 is proposed to go.  What the hell are those people going to drink?  They have no new places to get water in that part of the world, so what are they going to do?  They ain't getting ours!

There will always be water. It's a question of how much people are willing to pay for it.

Desalination

[sparker]

I personally think it's foolish to assume Phoenix will physically be able to sprawl out as far as I-11 is proposed to go.  What the hell are those people going to drink?  They have no new places to get water in that part of the world, so what are they going to do?  They ain't getting ours!

There will always be water. It's a question of how much people are willing to pay for it.

Desalination

I can see it now -- a plant on the shores of the Gulf of California with a pipeline to Roosevelt Lake.  At that point there might not be enough money left to build the more gratuitous southern reaches of I-11.  I for one would call that a "win-win" (not that something like that would occur without tons of controversy from both environmental and fiscal quarters!). 

[KeithE4Phx]

I would estimate most traffic would follow I-11 to I-10, then head east. It's less direct, but it'd be significantly faster than slogging up city streets.

The fastest route from Wickenburg to Phoenix is taking US-60 from Wickenburg down to Loop 303. There is a lot of driveways and at-grade intersections along the way, but not what I would call "slogging" in the style of Grand Avenue within Phoenix.

There is no place to shoehorn an interstate-grade, freeway-to-freeway interchange in that small space where the 303/60 ramps are.  The current interchange is surrounded on three sides by residential areas, which would have to be condemned and destroyed.  Not gonna happen.

There are two traffic signals along US-60 between Wickenburg and Loop 303, and one of those signals is the first intersection NW of the Loop 303/US-60 interchange.

Those lights are at 163rd Ave in Surprise, less than 1/2 mile from the 303, and at Center St. in Wittman.  I'm willing to bet that a 3rd light will be added at AZ 74 in Morristown in the not-too-distant future.

[kkt]

I personally think it's foolish to assume Phoenix will physically be able to sprawl out as far as I-11 is proposed to go.  What the hell are those people going to drink?  They have no new places to get water in that part of the world, so what are they going to do?  They ain't getting ours!

There will always be water. It's a question of how much people are willing to pay for it.

Desalination

There's not a whole lot of salt water around Arizona either.

Also a severely energy-intensive process.

[sparker]

I personally think it's foolish to assume Phoenix will physically be able to sprawl out as far as I-11 is proposed to go.  What the hell are those people going to drink?  They have no new places to get water in that part of the world, so what are they going to do?  They ain't getting ours!

There will always be water. It's a question of how much people are willing to pay for it.

Desalination

There's not a whole lot of salt water around Arizona either.

Also a severely energy-intensive process.

Hence the Gulf of California, the nearest seawater body to AZ.  Buy the juice to operate the plant from Mexican sources; probably be somewhat cheaper than in the US.  Again, not that it's likely to happen in the immediate future -- but if the drought persists for more than a few years, drastic -- and likely expensive -- measures may be necessary. 

[vdeane]

It's also not good for the environment.  The salt doesn't just magically vanish, after all.

[Plutonic Panda]

I personally think it's foolish to assume Phoenix will physically be able to sprawl out as far as I-11 is proposed to go.  What the hell are those people going to drink?  They have no new places to get water in that part of the world, so what are they going to do?  They ain't getting ours!

There will always be water. It's a question of how much people are willing to pay for it.

Desalination

There's not a whole lot of salt water around Arizona either.

Also a severely energy-intensive process.

Pipelines and nuclear energy.

As for the environmental impacts, I've read that an increasing issue with the oceans is increasing salinity levels. Not sure how much desalination plants would help but they can't make it worse.

The only issue is the brine that is produced but I'm confident with the proper amount of R&D we can come up with a solution. 

[Plutonic Panda]

I personally think it's foolish to assume Phoenix will physically be able to sprawl out as far as I-11 is proposed to go.  What the hell are those people going to drink?  They have no new places to get water in that part of the world, so what are they going to do?  They ain't getting ours!

There will always be water. It's a question of how much people are willing to pay for it.

Desalination

I can see it now -- a plant on the shores of the Gulf of California with a pipeline to Roosevelt Lake.  At that point there might not be enough money left to build the more gratuitous southern reaches of I-11.  I for one would call that a "win-win" (not that something like that would occur without tons of controversy from both environmental and fiscal quarters!).

Lol I'd rather see money go to a water pipeline than a southern extension if I-8 beyond I-10.

[sparker]

I personally think it's foolish to assume Phoenix will physically be able to sprawl out as far as I-11 is proposed to go.  What the hell are those people going to drink?  They have no new places to get water in that part of the world, so what are they going to do?  They ain't getting ours!

There will always be water. It's a question of how much people are willing to pay for it.

Desalination

There's not a whole lot of salt water around Arizona either.

Also a severely energy-intensive process.

Pipelines and nuclear energy.

As for the environmental impacts, I've read that an increasing issue with the oceans is increasing salinity levels. Not sure how much desalination plants would help but they can't make it worse.

The only issue is the brine that is produced but I'm confident with the proper amount of R&D we can come up with a solution. 

Widespread drought + high overall temperatures = less freshwater runoff into the ocean + more rapid oceanic evaporation = higher salt content in the ocean.  Removal of a bit of extra-saline water for desalinization purposes will leave piles of salt somewhere.  Of course it's "sea salt" rather than manufactured sodium chloride, so it might have a bit of salability.  Now -- maybe if we all developed a taste for oil & brine-cured Greek olives!  (I grew up eating these, courtesy of my Greek-born grandfather).  But desalinization efforts would likely be a last resort when and if other water acquisition methods had been exhausted. 

[DRMan]

I personally think it's foolish to assume Phoenix will physically be able to sprawl out as far as I-11 is proposed to go.  What the hell are those people going to drink?  They have no new places to get water in that part of the world, so what are they going to do?  They ain't getting ours!

There will always be water. It's a question of how much people are willing to pay for it.

Desalination

I can see it now -- a plant on the shores of the Gulf of California with a pipeline to Roosevelt Lake.  At that point there might not be enough money left to build the more gratuitous southern reaches of I-11.  I for one would call that a "win-win" (not that something like that would occur without tons of controversy from both environmental and fiscal quarters!).

Lol I'd rather see money go to a water pipeline than a southern extension if I-8 beyond I-10.

Well, there is a straight-faced proposal to divert water from the Mississippi River to Lake Mead: https://www.azfamily.com/news/arizona-legislature-proposes-pumping-mississippi-river-water-to-help-with-drought/article_3cbf8858-b832-11eb-a76f-0f6bfebd2301.html

[Plutonic Panda]

I personally think it's foolish to assume Phoenix will physically be able to sprawl out as far as I-11 is proposed to go.  What the hell are those people going to drink?  They have no new places to get water in that part of the world, so what are they going to do?  They ain't getting ours!

There will always be water. It's a question of how much people are willing to pay for it.

Desalination

There's not a whole lot of salt water around Arizona either.

Also a severely energy-intensive process.

Pipelines and nuclear energy.

As for the environmental impacts, I've read that an increasing issue with the oceans is increasing salinity levels. Not sure how much desalination plants would help but they can't make it worse.

The only issue is the brine that is produced but I'm confident with the proper amount of R&D we can come up with a solution. 

Widespread drought + high overall temperatures = less freshwater runoff into the ocean + more rapid oceanic evaporation = higher salt content in the ocean.  Removal of a bit of extra-saline water for desalinization purposes will leave piles of salt somewhere.  Of course it's "sea salt" rather than manufactured sodium chloride, so it might have a bit of salability.  Now -- maybe if we all developed a taste for oil & brine-cured Greek olives!  (I grew up eating these, courtesy of my Greek-born grandfather).  But desalinization efforts would likely be a last resort when and if other water acquisition methods had been exhausted.

True but if we can rely more on desalinated water rather than rivers and lake more of that freshwater might actually make it to the ocean. The Colorado can flow to Mexico once again!

[Plutonic Panda]

I personally think it's foolish to assume Phoenix will physically be able to sprawl out as far as I-11 is proposed to go.  What the hell are those people going to drink?  They have no new places to get water in that part of the world, so what are they going to do?  They ain't getting ours!

There will always be water. It's a question of how much people are willing to pay for it.

Desalination

I can see it now -- a plant on the shores of the Gulf of California with a pipeline to Roosevelt Lake.  At that point there might not be enough money left to build the more gratuitous southern reaches of I-11.  I for one would call that a "win-win" (not that something like that would occur without tons of controversy from both environmental and fiscal quarters!).

Lol I'd rather see money go to a water pipeline than a southern extension if I-8 beyond I-10.

Well, there is a straight-faced proposal to divert water from the Mississippi River to Lake Mead: https://www.azfamily.com/news/arizona-legislature-proposes-pumping-mississippi-river-water-to-help-with-drought/article_3cbf8858-b832-11eb-a76f-0f6bfebd2301.html

I mean we build continental oil pipelines. I know oil is obviously different from water so I don't know exactly how it would work but surely we can make it happen. I suppose groups calling for removal of dams could get behind it as cities along the pipeline route in the west wouldn't need to rely on traditional water sources like lakes much. Sucks for tourism/recreation though and ironically enough my main concern is in fact keeping Lake Powell and Mead full as frequent those lakes.

Something has to be done. You can't just stop building new living units or restricting sprawl. That will only drive up the price of homes and price the lower income groups out. That isn't right. I wonder if Arizona's water issues will eat their way into projects like I-11. It's easy for people to balk at such proposals until they turn on their faucet and water doesn't come out. I bet then people will place water projects above those like I-11 or the Broadway curve even though how badly those projects are needed.

[andy3175]

I personally think it's foolish to assume Phoenix will physically be able to sprawl out as far as I-11 is proposed to go.  What the hell are those people going to drink?  They have no new places to get water in that part of the world, so what are they going to do?  They ain't getting ours!

There will always be water. It's a question of how much people are willing to pay for it.

Desalination

There's not a whole lot of salt water around Arizona either.

Also a severely energy-intensive process.

Pipelines and nuclear energy.

As for the environmental impacts, I've read that an increasing issue with the oceans is increasing salinity levels. Not sure how much desalination plants would help but they can't make it worse.

The only issue is the brine that is produced but I'm confident with the proper amount of R&D we can come up with a solution. 

Widespread drought + high overall temperatures = less freshwater runoff into the ocean + more rapid oceanic evaporation = higher salt content in the ocean.  Removal of a bit of extra-saline water for desalinization purposes will leave piles of salt somewhere.  Of course it's "sea salt" rather than manufactured sodium chloride, so it might have a bit of salability.  Now -- maybe if we all developed a taste for oil & brine-cured Greek olives!  (I grew up eating these, courtesy of my Greek-born grandfather).  But desalinization efforts would likely be a last resort when and if other water acquisition methods had been exhausted.

True but if we can rely more on desalinated water rather than rivers and lake more of that freshwater might actually make it to the ocean. The Colorado can flow to Mexico once again!

There are also proposals to utilize treated sewage to develop new sources of water as well as store water underground. An example of this is the San Diego Pure Water Program:
https://www.sandiego.gov/public-utilities/sustainability/pure-water-sd. Many other water providers are considering similar measures along with desalination.

But as this is getting a bit off topic, let's return to the discussion of Interstate 11.

[ethanhopkin14]

I personally think it's foolish to assume Phoenix will physically be able to sprawl out as far as I-11 is proposed to go.  What the hell are those people going to drink?  They have no new places to get water in that part of the world, so what are they going to do?  They ain't getting ours!

There will always be water. It's a question of how much people are willing to pay for it.

Desalination

There's not a whole lot of salt water around Arizona either.

Also a severely energy-intensive process.

Pipelines and nuclear energy.

As for the environmental impacts, I've read that an increasing issue with the oceans is increasing salinity levels. Not sure how much desalination plants would help but they can't make it worse.

The only issue is the brine that is produced but I'm confident with the proper amount of R&D we can come up with a solution. 

Widespread drought + high overall temperatures = less freshwater runoff into the ocean + more rapid oceanic evaporation = higher salt content in the ocean.  Removal of a bit of extra-saline water for desalinization purposes will leave piles of salt somewhere.  Of course it's "sea salt" rather than manufactured sodium chloride, so it might have a bit of salability.  Now -- maybe if we all developed a taste for oil & brine-cured Greek olives!  (I grew up eating these, courtesy of my Greek-born grandfather).  But desalinization efforts would likely be a last resort when and if other water acquisition methods had been exhausted.

True but if we can rely more on desalinated water rather than rivers and lake more of that freshwater might actually make it to the ocean. The Colorado can flow to Mexico once again!

There are also proposals to utilize treated sewage to develop new sources of water as well as store water underground. An example of this is the San Diego Pure Water Program:
https://www.sandiego.gov/public-utilities/sustainability/pure-water-sd. Many other water providers are considering similar measures along with desalination.

But as this is getting a bit off topic, let's return to the discussion of Interstate 11.

Yum!!

[kkt]

I personally think it's foolish to assume Phoenix will physically be able to sprawl out as far as I-11 is proposed to go.  What the hell are those people going to drink?  They have no new places to get water in that part of the world, so what are they going to do?  They ain't getting ours!

There will always be water. It's a question of how much people are willing to pay for it.

Desalination

I can see it now -- a plant on the shores of the Gulf of California with a pipeline to Roosevelt Lake.  At that point there might not be enough money left to build the more gratuitous southern reaches of I-11.  I for one would call that a "win-win" (not that something like that would occur without tons of controversy from both environmental and fiscal quarters!).

Lol I'd rather see money go to a water pipeline than a southern extension if I-8 beyond I-10.

Well, there is a straight-faced proposal to divert water from the Mississippi River to Lake Mead: https://www.azfamily.com/news/arizona-legislature-proposes-pumping-mississippi-river-water-to-help-with-drought/article_3cbf8858-b832-11eb-a76f-0f6bfebd2301.html

The Arizona legislator who proposed it may have kept a straight face, but it wasn't a proposal to build it or even spend the money for a thorough study.  This would be from the Mississippi near Davenport, Iowa, to the Green River of Utah and Wyoming, a tributary of the Colorado.  Good thing there's no mountains or anything in between!

[ethanhopkin14]

I personally think it's foolish to assume Phoenix will physically be able to sprawl out as far as I-11 is proposed to go.  What the hell are those people going to drink?  They have no new places to get water in that part of the world, so what are they going to do?  They ain't getting ours!

There will always be water. It's a question of how much people are willing to pay for it.

Desalination

I can see it now -- a plant on the shores of the Gulf of California with a pipeline to Roosevelt Lake.  At that point there might not be enough money left to build the more gratuitous southern reaches of I-11.  I for one would call that a "win-win" (not that something like that would occur without tons of controversy from both environmental and fiscal quarters!).

Lol I'd rather see money go to a water pipeline than a southern extension if I-8 beyond I-10.

Well, there is a straight-faced proposal to divert water from the Mississippi River to Lake Mead: https://www.azfamily.com/news/arizona-legislature-proposes-pumping-mississippi-river-water-to-help-with-drought/article_3cbf8858-b832-11eb-a76f-0f6bfebd2301.html

The Arizona legislator who proposed it may have kept a straight face, but it wasn't a proposal to build it or even spend the money for a thorough study.  This would be from the Mississippi near Davenport, Iowa, to the Green River of Utah and Wyoming, a tributary of the Colorado.  Good thing there's no mountains or anything in between!

Can't we just ship water into Phoenix by truck?   

[Sub-Urbanite]

I personally think it's foolish to assume Phoenix will physically be able to sprawl out as far as I-11 is proposed to go.  What the hell are those people going to drink?  They have no new places to get water in that part of the world, so what are they going to do?  They ain't getting ours!

There will always be water. It's a question of how much people are willing to pay for it.

Desalination

There's not a whole lot of salt water around Arizona either.

Also a severely energy-intensive process.

Pipelines and nuclear energy.

As for the environmental impacts, I've read that an increasing issue with the oceans is increasing salinity levels. Not sure how much desalination plants would help but they can't make it worse.

The only issue is the brine that is produced but I'm confident with the proper amount of R&D we can come up with a solution. 

Widespread drought + high overall temperatures = less freshwater runoff into the ocean + more rapid oceanic evaporation = higher salt content in the ocean.  Removal of a bit of extra-saline water for desalinization purposes will leave piles of salt somewhere.  Of course it's "sea salt" rather than manufactured sodium chloride, so it might have a bit of salability.  Now -- maybe if we all developed a taste for oil & brine-cured Greek olives!  (I grew up eating these, courtesy of my Greek-born grandfather).  But desalinization efforts would likely be a last resort when and if other water acquisition methods had been exhausted.

True but if we can rely more on desalinated water rather than rivers and lake more of that freshwater might actually make it to the ocean. The Colorado can flow to Mexico once again!

There are also proposals to utilize treated sewage to develop new sources of water as well as store water underground. An example of this is the San Diego Pure Water Program:
https://www.sandiego.gov/public-utilities/sustainability/pure-water-sd. Many other water providers are considering similar measures along with desalination.

But as this is getting a bit off topic, let's return to the discussion of Interstate 11.

Is it off topic?

Where Interstate 11 goes will dictate development patterns. We can't extract highway construction from planning...

As for treated sewage, it's of course important to note that roughly 2% of the water coming through Hoover Dam is Las Vegas' treated sewage. So LA, Phoenix and San Diego have already had a "taste" of this method of conservation...

[triplemultiplex]

The brine issue with desalinization is only a concern if one is discharging it in a stupid place.  Sent far enough out to the open ocean, the potential impacts are very minimal.
Or in some far, distant future where we are desalinating on a scale millions of times larger than what we currently need, then we're gonna have issues.

I wonder how well it will sit with Arizonians for a foreign country to essentially have control over their water supply if one goes the Gulf of California route.

Speaking on behalf of the Midwest; they're not getting our fucking water.  All y'all desert critters can put on your damn jacket and move on back here if you want some water.  Why on Earth would we want to further subsidize the continued migration of people to these large, southwestern states and thus increase their political clout?  What's in it for us?  Nothing.

[sparker]

The brine issue with desalinization is only a concern if one is discharging it in a stupid place.  Sent far enough out to the open ocean, the potential impacts are very minimal.
Or in some far, distant future where we are desalinating on a scale millions of times larger than what we currently need, then we're gonna have issues.

I wonder how well it will sit with Arizonians for a foreign country to essentially have control over their water supply if one goes the Gulf of California route.

Speaking on behalf of the Midwest; they're not getting our fucking water.  All y'all desert critters can put on your damn jacket and move on back here if you want some water.  Why on Earth would we want to further subsidize the continued migration of people to these large, southwestern states and thus increase their political clout?  What's in it for us?  Nothing.

Don't know about Arizona-based rants, but no one out here in CA has seriously suggested a 1200-1500-mile pipeline from anywhere east of the Rockies, which would be what such a project would entail.  Now -- if the drought persists for a few years, and the Midwest is plagued with floods, the waters of which would otherwise run off into the Gulf, calls for such a remedy might occur.  I know the thought of this would rankle the residents of several Midwest and Gulf states, but such a project would likely be federally-initiated so as to dampen the direct objections such as expressed above.  Newsom won't come to Austin or Baton Rouge looking for a handout simply because he hates to have a "fail" on his resume', but our new Sen. Padilla would have no such compunctions; he'd have the legislation written and in committee in record time.  Then the constitutional questions about who actually owns the rights to the water would commence -- but some accommodation would be settled upon prior to a court decision because few parties want to disturb the status quo of water distribution, which could be jeopardized if the courts came down on one side or the other.  Then the questions about using eminent domain for any pipeline would be raised -- by which time the weather patterns may have shifted again, with the San Joaquin Valley getting flooding that would make 1997 look like a broken pipe!  Bottom line -- even if the water transfer is requested or even mandated, the process for manifesting that would take years if not decades.  So it won't be Midwest objections to the West stealing their water that would derail any action of the sort, but all the physical and legal obstacles that would occur even with universal concurrence.     

[jakeroot]

It was always my impression that Phoenix would die not because it would become impossible to live there (no fresh water, too friggin' hot, etc), but because it would become too expensive to live there. Fresh water supply based entirely on desalination would almost certainly make every aspect of life more expensive and wipe out whatever financial incentive Phoenix otherwise provided prior to such a point.