Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana

Started by mukade, June 25, 2011, 08:55:31 AM

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Duke87

So, I'm assuming that INDOT intends to start the mile markers from 0 for the new portion and use 465 to hide the jump, rather than counting down and starting at 16, correct?

I get why they're doing this, but I can't help but feel like it's a short term benefit at the expense of long term detriment. Adding 200 will help people handle the changing numbers better, yes, but 20 years from now when the change is history, the inconsistency in mileage is going to cause nothing but headaches.
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.


mukade

Quote from: Duke87 on July 29, 2012, 06:03:29 PM
So, I'm assuming that INDOT intends to start the mile markers from 0 for the new portion and use 465 to hide the jump, rather than counting down and starting at 16, correct?

I get why they're doing this, but I can't help but feel like it's a short term benefit at the expense of long term detriment. Adding 200 will help people handle the changing numbers better, yes, but 20 years from now when the change is history, the inconsistency in mileage is going to cause nothing but headaches.

I think it is fair to say not too many people liked the +200 miles over the +184 miles.

After thinking about it, I think it has some merit. It definitely has a short term benefit, as stated, but it also offers more than that. The final route is assumed to be up SR 37 (exit 114) from Clear Creek until about a mile south of I-465. From there, a new terrain route will connect to I-465. That section would be 49 miles. I-69 would then join I-465 and head east and north (i.e. the east leg) for 16 miles so the current I-69 exit would be at mile marker 184.

Because the final route has not received any approvals, it could end up veering north from Martinsville to I-70. That is not extremely likely, but it is possible, and who knows how many miles that would add. A more likely possibility is that INDOT could route I-69 west, north, then east on I-465 (i.e. use the west leg). That would add 11 miles to the current assumed route, and make the current I-69 exit at mile 195 - or 5 miles off from the 200. The west leg is wider than the east leg, and it goes by the airport.

Because of the certain level of doubt on the routing, the 16 mile slop is probably not a bad idea.

On the new southern section, the first interchange will probably be exit 2 or exit 3 at current I-164 and the way I understand it.

hbelkins

Quote from: mukade on July 25, 2012, 09:01:46 PM
FWIW... I took the pic in 2011, but forgot it was missing the SR 66 marker.



I don't recall there ever being a full guide sign for IN 66 on the Kentucky side of the river.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

jnewkirk77

Quote from: hbelkins on July 29, 2012, 10:19:26 PM
Quote from: mukade on July 25, 2012, 09:01:46 PM
FWIW... I took the pic in 2011, but forgot it was missing the SR 66 marker.



I don't recall there ever being a full guide sign for IN 66 on the Kentucky side of the river.

There sure was ... and I think it was INDOT who put it there.  KYTC did the "Ohio River - William H. Natcher Bridge" signs at the ends of the bridge, and INDOT posted the original northbound BGS with the IN 66 shield.  However, at some point in either 2010 or '11, that BGS was knocked down (or blown down in a storm, I'm not sure).  There was just one "naked" post there for a good while before KYTC had this one installed ... minus the IN 66.

A.J. Bertin

Quote from: mukade on July 29, 2012, 10:04:55 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on July 29, 2012, 06:03:29 PM
So, I'm assuming that INDOT intends to start the mile markers from 0 for the new portion and use 465 to hide the jump, rather than counting down and starting at 16, correct?

I get why they're doing this, but I can't help but feel like it's a short term benefit at the expense of long term detriment. Adding 200 will help people handle the changing numbers better, yes, but 20 years from now when the change is history, the inconsistency in mileage is going to cause nothing but headaches.

I think it is fair to say not too many people liked the +200 miles over the +184 miles.

After thinking about it, I think it has some merit. It definitely has a short term benefit, as stated, but it also offers more than that. The final route is assumed to be up SR 37 (exit 114) from Clear Creek until about a mile south of I-465. From there, a new terrain route will connect to I-465. That section would be 49 miles. I-69 would then join I-465 and head east and north (i.e. the east leg) for 16 miles so the current I-69 exit would be at mile marker 184.

Because the final route has not received any approvals, it could end up veering north from Martinsville to I-70. That is not extremely likely, but it is possible, and who knows how many miles that would add. A more likely possibility is that INDOT could route I-69 west, north, then east on I-465 (i.e. use the west leg). That would add 11 miles to the current assumed route, and make the current I-69 exit at mile 195 - or 5 miles off from the 200. The west leg is wider than the east leg, and it goes by the airport.

Because of the certain level of doubt on the routing, the 16 mile slop is probably not a bad idea.

On the new southern section, the first interchange will probably be exit 2 or exit 3 at current I-164 and the way I understand it.

I don't understand why it's necessary to change the existing I-69 exit numbers now. Maybe I missed something, but why don't they just wait until they know the exact routing of the highway before they mess around with changing exit numbers?
-A.J. from Michigan

rawmustard

Quote from: A.J. Bertin on July 30, 2012, 12:30:03 PM
I don't understand why it's necessary to change the existing I-69 exit numbers now. Maybe I missed something, but why don't they just wait until they know the exact routing of the highway before they mess around with changing exit numbers?

I think they have to do it because a significant portion will be opening this year. INDOT can't have duplicate reference markers for the same route. I'm sure INDOT waited as long as they could.

mukade

Quote
BLOOMINGTON, Ind. — More I-69 construction is set to begin in Monroe and Greene counties as the Indiana Department of Transportation (INDOT) has awarded a $90 million contract to Gohmann Asphalt & Construction of Clarksville, Ind...

Third Contract Awarded for I-69 Construction in Section 4 (INDOT)

tidecat

Would Indiana be able to reuse the exit tabs for exit numbers less than 200 the way this is being done?
Clinched: I-264 (KY), I-265 (KY), I-359 (AL), I-459 (AL), I-865 (IN)

Alps

Quote from: tidecat on August 01, 2012, 09:05:59 PM
Would Indiana be able to reuse the exit tabs for exit numbers less than 200 the way this is being done?
They would probably just have the signs made new. I don't know if Indiana makes the exit tabs integral to the sign or as separate panels, but even if they're separate, a lot of the ones north of Indy are button copy. It's a relatively small-budget item.

vdeane

Quote from: tidecat on August 01, 2012, 09:05:59 PM
Would Indiana be able to reuse the exit tabs for exit numbers less than 200 the way this is being done?
Most of the time old exit numbers just get greened over, not replacing the tab.  Plus the numbers might not match; this isn't sequential, after all.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

tdindy88

The articles on the renumbering of the exits seem to imply that there will be new signs themselves, so either a full sign replacement or just a tab replacement will be needed. I thought that the tabs were seperate from the signs, but I'm not positive, I need to look closer at one. If that is the case, I could see the tabs being the only thing replaced, especially on the signs in the Fort Wayne area that are still relatively new. As for the button-copy signs (which exist almostly solely along I-69 in Madison and Delaware Counties) I wouldn't be surprised at all if those were completely replaced (it is probably only a matter of time for those to be replaced anyway. My other question would be: what about the services signs, each with the exit numbers on them. Do all of those have to be replaced, or is there a "blueout" for them. I'm probably just thinking too much into some of this. I'm going up to Michigan for a vacation next week, but I'm sure it's probably a bit too early to see any replacements yet.

mukade

As long as we're guessing, I will chime in. I predict that some tabs will be replaced, but some will have the numbers on them replaced - especially the ones over exit 100. First, INDOT will be doing the work so it is doubtful that entire signs will be replaced.

As for seperate tabs vs. integrated ones, I think it is a mixture. Look at Highway Explorer I-69 page.

mukade

#387
I guess they started the renumbering yesterday. The following articles have pictures of exit 356 and 357.

Crews start renumbering exits on I-69 (WANE)
Re-Numbering Of I-69 Begins (INC)

tdindy88

Looks like they just replaced the tabs, although the signs there at Exit "356" aren't too old, so that shouldn't be much of an issue anyway. I'm not sure if I'm digging those "Old Exit XX" signs on that sign gantry though. I guess I will see some new exit sigange on my way up north in a week afterall.

amroad17

By looking at the pictures in the article, it looks like they are just changing the 1's to 3's--assuming it is demountable numbers.
I don't need a GPS.  I AM the GPS! (for family and friends)

tvketchum

It wouldn't surprise me if they have a preprinted green out to place over the old number. Button copy signs only have to have the numbers popped off before slapping on the greenout/number decal...

mukade

Quote from: amroad17 on August 02, 2012, 07:40:41 PM
By looking at the pictures in the article, it looks like they are just changing the 1's to 3's--assuming it is demountable numbers.

I think they do usually use demountable numbers. Occasionally, you see them squeeze new text on signs by moving the text on the bottom down. The I-74/SR 63 eastbound exit is an example of that. The best example is I-69 / SR 68 where "EXIT 22" tab became "EXIT   ".

mukade

Quote from: amroad17 on August 02, 2012, 07:40:41 PM
By looking at the pictures in the article, it looks like they are just changing the 1's to 3's--assuming it is demountable numbers.

Comparing old picture with new, it seems the tab on exit 357 was replaced.


ssummers72

INDOT specs out demountable copy for all overhead signs.

Stephen

PurdueBill

It's too bad that the new tabs pictured have full borders as if they were separate signs, instead of the old tabs which lacked a bottom white border since it shared that with the main signs, which had squared upper right corners so as to meet the exit tabs.  Guess in a bulk replacement they aren't going to bother with detail like that.

For the blue signs, it would sure be nice if they had a barrel of spare button copy to replace/add new digits.  It can be done--I've seen INDOT do it a couple times before (a distance sign on I-65 listing distance to "I-465 East" was changed to "865" with a button copy numeral 8, and a blue sign north of Indy on 65 got button copy numerals on an otherwise reflective sign.  ODOT has even done button copy addition in the last two years, adding the letter B to some blue service signs at Exit 209 when it was split into an A-B.  They added reflective Bs to reflective-lettered logo signs, and button copy Bs to button copy ones....what attention to detail! I was shocked to see the button copy letter added--I believe it was in 2010, but no earlier that 2009 that it happened.

Alps

Quote from: mukade on August 02, 2012, 09:06:17 PM
Quote from: amroad17 on August 02, 2012, 07:40:41 PM
By looking at the pictures in the article, it looks like they are just changing the 1's to 3's--assuming it is demountable numbers.

Comparing old picture with new, it seems the tab on exit 357 was replaced.


Looks the same to me. The top photo seems to have a dead windshield bug over the 57.

mukade

Quote from: Steve on August 02, 2012, 09:55:04 PM
Looks the same to me. The top photo seems to have a dead windshield bug over the 57.

I was taking a picture of the bug, but just happened to be going by that sign.

Anyway, the 356 and 357 have a full border while the 156 and 157 don't have a bottom border. The new numbers also don't look as tall to me.

Alps

Quote from: mukade on August 02, 2012, 10:18:41 PM
Quote from: Steve on August 02, 2012, 09:55:04 PM
Looks the same to me. The top photo seems to have a dead windshield bug over the 57.

I was taking a picture of the bug, but just happened to be going by that sign.

Anyway, the 356 and 357 have a full border while the 156 and 157 don't have a bottom border. The new numbers also don't look as tall to me.
Sharp eye. On the other hand, the 3 looks haphazardly placed vertically and horizontally.

mukade

This headline documented in the Bloomington newspaper introduces us to a matter of utmost concern:

Quote
"If they elevate the highway, there's a good chance people will drive by and see some nudists..."

I am not sure why INDOT would elevate the highway through a rural area where a nudist camp is .25 miles away, but IF they did...


I-69 route worries nudist campers in Monroe County (Bloomington Herald Times)

vtk

Quote from: mukade on August 03, 2012, 07:39:47 AM
This headline documented in the Bloomington newspaper introduces us to a matter of utmost concern:

Quote
"If they elevate the highway, there's a good chance people will drive by and see some nudists..."

I am not sure why INDOT would elevate the highway through a rural area where a nudist camp is .25 miles away, but IF they did...


I-69 route worries nudist campers in Monroe County (Bloomington Herald Times)

That article serves as a great advertisement for that particular resort.  And while highway noise may slightly spoil the tranquility, I don't think it will be as bad as imagined.  Gawkers shouldn't be a problem at all, though some of the resorts hiking trails might seem less private...  Actually, the new highway might help attract more customers.  If I lived in central or southern Indiana I'd be looking forward to easier access to what sounds like a very nice place to camp nude.
Wait, it's all Ohio? Always has been.



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