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Author Topic: I-67: TN, KY, IN  (Read 69680 times)

sparker

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Re: I-67: TN, KY, IN
« Reply #125 on: May 21, 2017, 03:53:29 PM »

I concur with what was previously said. If I-67 comes about at all, the most logical corridor would be from Indianapolis to Grand Rapids along the US 31/I-196 corridor (or perhaps ending in Benton Harbor, as the US 31 freeway will not tie directly into I-196).

Though there are indeed higher priorities in Indiana, with the recent gas tax hike (with indexing), I could see the remaining segments of US 31 between South Bend and Indianapolis being converted to freeway within the next 10-15 years, so maybe an I-67 designation is not too far off.

If there's enough pressure brought to bear by intrastate interests, a full-length upgrade and Interstate (67, of course) designation will likely be proposed within a decade or two, particularly if smaller upgrades such as extending the Kokomo bypass north and south a bit at a time are undertaken.  North of the Wabash River, there is only sporadic private access to address; it's the rest of the route south of there that will be tricky in that respect.  Nevertheless, it's seemingly on both state and regional radars; so don't be surprised to see something along these lines proposed in the next 20 years or so (actually getting it done will be another story). 
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LM117

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Re: I-67: TN, KY, IN
« Reply #126 on: May 21, 2017, 04:23:08 PM »

The biggest issue with getting I-67 designated between Indianapolis and Grand Rapids is Michigan's lack of interest in new interstates. Michigan would probably show as much interest in I-67 as they do with I-73. In other words, zero.

Very few states are actively pursuing new interstates these days. North Carolina, Kentucky and Texas are the most notable that come to mind. NC is probably at the top of the list since they gained 3 new future interstates within a year (I-42, I-87, I-587), and that's not including I-795's extension southward along US-117 to I-40 being written into law as part of the FAST Act.
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Re: I-67: TN, KY, IN
« Reply #127 on: May 21, 2017, 10:44:28 PM »

owensboro seems to live in the shadow of evansville.

Downtown Owensboro is quite impressive, at least when I visited a few weeks ago. I don't remember it having a huge playground and park on the river when I was last there in 2005.

The riverfront is very nice. Unfortunately, for the residents of Owensboro, they are now finding that it has quite the price tag. A series of tax increases are on the books, with more possible. This playground and riverfront was the brainchild of Mayor Ron Payne...the same mayor who seriously tried to get an already completed I-69 rerouted over the new Owensboro bridge, and was one of the largest proponents of this I-67 nonsense. He also got publicly played by the less than reputable former owner of the Evansville minor league hockey team.

The guy apparently loved his hometown, but that love overloaded his brain. A "free" multi-million playground and park is nice and all, but it generates zero revenue.  Payne is out of office, and I imagine any hopes of a I-67 ever existing south of Indianapolis went along with him.
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: I-67: TN, KY, IN
« Reply #128 on: May 23, 2017, 03:46:10 PM »

I think we can forget about an Interstate 67 being built anytime soon, if ever.
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sparker

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Re: I-67: TN, KY, IN
« Reply #129 on: May 23, 2017, 04:14:58 PM »

The biggest issue with getting I-67 designated between Indianapolis and Grand Rapids is Michigan's lack of interest in new interstates. Michigan would probably show as much interest in I-67 as they do with I-73. In other words, zero.

Michigan got disgusted with the I-73 concept early on, when it became clear that extending anything from Jackson SE to the Toledo area would run into NIMBY issues no matter where the alignment was situated.  And north of there all the way to I-75 US 127 is a perfectly serviceable facility (if a little shopworn in spots), so even the spot upgrades needed to achieve Interstate criteria might not be deemed cost-effective. 

But if Indiana makes a push for I-67 along US 31, it's a distinct possibility that Michigan will at least opt for a like designation as far as Benton Harbor -- with the connection to I-94 being conceptually finalized.  Whether they're willing to re-designate I-196 to follow suit and continue the I-67 corridor concept all the way to Grand Rapids has yet to be seen.  But Indiana would, in all likelihood, have to take the reins of this project and then convince Michigan to accede in whatever way can be negotiated.  I'm sure western Michigan interests -- particularly those involved in recreational activities along Lake Michigan and its inlets -- would welcome a singular route that could convey Indiana consumers (as well as those further south) to their facilities -- possibly enough to sway MiDOT to take part in re-signage. 
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I-39

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Re: I-67: TN, KY, IN
« Reply #130 on: May 24, 2017, 09:08:46 PM »

The biggest issue with getting I-67 designated between Indianapolis and Grand Rapids is Michigan's lack of interest in new interstates. Michigan would probably show as much interest in I-67 as they do with I-73. In other words, zero.

Michigan got disgusted with the I-73 concept early on, when it became clear that extending anything from Jackson SE to the Toledo area would run into NIMBY issues no matter where the alignment was situated.  And north of there all the way to I-75 US 127 is a perfectly serviceable facility (if a little shopworn in spots), so even the spot upgrades needed to achieve Interstate criteria might not be deemed cost-effective. 

But if Indiana makes a push for I-67 along US 31, it's a distinct possibility that Michigan will at least opt for a like designation as far as Benton Harbor -- with the connection to I-94 being conceptually finalized.  Whether they're willing to re-designate I-196 to follow suit and continue the I-67 corridor concept all the way to Grand Rapids has yet to be seen.  But Indiana would, in all likelihood, have to take the reins of this project and then convince Michigan to accede in whatever way can be negotiated.  I'm sure western Michigan interests -- particularly those involved in recreational activities along Lake Michigan and its inlets -- would welcome a singular route that could convey Indiana consumers (as well as those further south) to their facilities -- possibly enough to sway MiDOT to take part in re-signage.

It would make sense for Michigan to sign I-67 up along US 31 to I-94, as it would make it a true Interstate highway. It would just be a matter of putting up new signs. The burden is more so on Indiana to finish the freeway upgrades on US 31 (including figuring out what to do with the cloverleaf interchange in South Bend), which has to happen first before they can even discuss an Interstate designation.
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sparker

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Re: I-67: TN, KY, IN
« Reply #131 on: May 24, 2017, 09:27:48 PM »

It would make sense for Michigan to sign I-67 up along US 31 to I-94, as it would make it a true Interstate highway. It would just be a matter of putting up new signs. The burden is more so on Indiana to finish the freeway upgrades on US 31 (including figuring out what to do with the cloverleaf interchange in South Bend), which has to happen first before they can even discuss an Interstate designation.

I'm sure that cloverleaf is a stop-gap solution that was retained for the sake of frugality (flyovers can be budget-busters!).  It's probable that this discrepancy will be addressed if & when Interstate status is actually on the table as just one of a litany of upgrades needed for such a project.  Taking care of the residents along the conventional 4-lane portion of the route north & south of Kokomo, whether by frontage road, construction of alternate access points, or even selective buyouts, will be a bigger issue.   
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codyg1985

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Re: I-67: TN, KY, IN
« Reply #132 on: May 25, 2017, 07:39:06 AM »

It would make sense for Michigan to sign I-67 up along US 31 to I-94, as it would make it a true Interstate highway. It would just be a matter of putting up new signs. The burden is more so on Indiana to finish the freeway upgrades on US 31 (including figuring out what to do with the cloverleaf interchange in South Bend), which has to happen first before they can even discuss an Interstate designation.
I'm sure that cloverleaf is a stop-gap solution that was retained for the sake of frugality (flyovers can be budget-busters!).   

An interstate designation probably wasn't even a consideration when the cloverleaf was built, so it was deemed to be adequate at the time.
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silverback1065

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Re: I-67: TN, KY, IN
« Reply #133 on: May 25, 2017, 10:12:17 AM »

i believe the original plans called for flyovers at that 20/31 interchange, but were cut out to save money. 
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hbelkins

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Re: I-67: TN, KY, IN
« Reply #134 on: May 25, 2017, 12:49:54 PM »

It would make sense for Michigan to sign I-67 up along US 31 to I-94, as it would make it a true Interstate highway. It would just be a matter of putting up new signs. The burden is more so on Indiana to finish the freeway upgrades on US 31 (including figuring out what to do with the cloverleaf interchange in South Bend), which has to happen first before they can even discuss an Interstate designation.
I'm sure that cloverleaf is a stop-gap solution that was retained for the sake of frugality (flyovers can be budget-busters!).   

An interstate designation probably wasn't even a consideration when the cloverleaf was built, so it was deemed to be adequate at the time.

Like the Kentucky parkways. The "Future I-69" designation was contingent at fixing the cloverleafs at the WK-Pennyrile and Purchase-I-24 interchanges.

Meanwhile I-55 in Memphis is still a cloverleaf...
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sparker

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Re: I-67: TN, KY, IN
« Reply #135 on: May 25, 2017, 04:52:30 PM »

Like the Kentucky parkways. The "Future I-69" designation was contingent at fixing the cloverleafs at the WK-Pennyrile and Purchase-I-24 interchanges.

Meanwhile I-55 in Memphis is still a cloverleaf...

So whatever happened to the I-55/Crump upgrade?  IIRC, plans were published that showed the details of the rework -- as of a few short years ago, this seemed to be a done deal!  Obviously funding (and in-state priorities) had something to do with the inaction here -- if any local/regional posters have any further info regarding this project's status, please let the rest of us know! (apologies for using this thread to ask a Mid-South question)
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theline

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Re: I-67: TN, KY, IN
« Reply #136 on: May 25, 2017, 08:10:04 PM »

i believe the original plans called for flyovers at that 20/31 interchange, but were cut out to save money.

Yes, exactly. Before construction began, maps on the project website, http://www.us31plysb.com/maps.html, showed flyovers for both the NB-to-WB and WB-to-SB movements. The maps were revised later. I'm sure the ramps were eliminated to save dollars. INDOT ended up using the existing ramps, though a bit extended to the south along the new highway.

This cloverleaf was built in the fifties as the first part of South Bend's western bypass. It has been virtually untouched since, save for repaving. Of course, it would need major revision if US 31 were ever converted to interstate status.
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triplemultiplex

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Re: I-67: TN, KY, IN
« Reply #137 on: June 12, 2017, 11:19:24 AM »

At least they planned ahead for a better system interchange there with that Jackson Rd overpass.  They've got plenty of room to come back and build the flyovers some day.
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theline

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Re: I-67: TN, KY, IN
« Reply #138 on: June 12, 2017, 07:24:56 PM »

I'm hoping that the new Fellows St. overpass, which goes over the eastern part of the interchange, was built with possible future flyovers in mind. Presumably, the WB US 20 to SB US 31 ramp could fit under that bridge before flying up and over the mainline US 20.

Another development regarding this interchange just came out today: http://www.southbendtribune.com/news/business/menards-plans-to-build-new-south-bend-store/article_a52be6bc-9d4d-53ce-9158-4e238aca1f3e.html. Menards has purchased the former Sears Essentials (née Kmart) store and several other adjacent properties, apparently part of a plan to build a new store. I don't know what impact that development might have on future road construction. A Holiday Inn Express is also going up between the Sears site and US 31, which may further impinge future road construction.

The saving grace may be that the cloverleaf was built back in the fifties with a rather large footprint, so there is a good bit of land already in the right-of-way.
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I-39

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Re: I-67: TN, KY, IN
« Reply #139 on: June 12, 2017, 07:32:15 PM »

The flyovers at US 31/20 in South Bend should be done when the corridor between US 24 and South Bend is converted to freeway. However, unless the feasibility study out for the remaining segments between Indianapolis and South Bend says otherwise, I think it will be a little while before the US 31 corridor north of Kokomo is converted.

That being said, they should go ahead and do the segment between Kokomo and SR 38 (as well as rebuild the pavement, woof, it's terrible).
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silverback1065

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Re: I-67: TN, KY, IN
« Reply #140 on: June 13, 2017, 01:37:39 AM »

INDOT plans to turn 31 at SR 10 and SR 110 into Jturns
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jnewkirk77

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Re: I-67: TN, KY, IN
« Reply #141 on: May 02, 2018, 01:24:04 PM »

I think we can forget about an Interstate 67 being built anytime soon, if ever.

People can't be satisfied to leave well enough alone.  (Paywall alert)
http://www.messenger-inquirer.com/news/local/hope-still-remains-for-i--project/article_9d99f641-819c-5210-a670-b28b9722aa12.html

The gist is this: Dubois and Spencer counties, plus the cities of Huntingburg and Jasper, are ponying up half the cost of a highway feasibility study (the rest of the $3.5 million will come from unnamed area companies), thanks to a new Indiana law passed in 2017 that allows local development authorities to qualify for federal highway funds.

And of course Owensboro, which is getting an Interstate (I-165) thanks to the conversion of the Natcher Parkway, wants in.

"Owensboro's not on the beaten path," said Mayor McCheese Tom Watson, a man apparently oblivious to the fact that I-165 is coming. "Our four-lane highway is the Ohio River, and it's been that way for years. But that won't cut it much longer if you're trying to make the city a destination and a distribution point for companies. If you want those visitors and you want those jobs, you need an interstate."

I can see upgrading 231 in Dubois and Martin counties (yes, bypass Jasper and H'burg), and 50 from Loogootee to Washington as a connector, but drop the Interstate idea. There are better ways to spend a buck.

But what do I know?
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hbelkins

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Re: I-67: TN, KY, IN
« Reply #142 on: May 02, 2018, 02:39:52 PM »

If I'm not mistaken the Green River Natcher and Audubon parkways have served Owensboro for at least 40 years. And the last time I checked, they (along with the US 60 bypass) are full freeways.

I still don't know what happened to the "Future I-69 Spur" signs on the Audubon. They've been gone for several years now, even as "Future I-65 Spur" signs have gone up on the Natcher.
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sparker

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Re: I-67: TN, KY, IN
« Reply #143 on: May 02, 2018, 05:22:41 PM »

I think we can forget about an Interstate 67 being built anytime soon, if ever.

People can't be satisfied to leave well enough alone.  (Paywall alert)
http://www.messenger-inquirer.com/news/local/hope-still-remains-for-i--project/article_9d99f641-819c-5210-a670-b28b9722aa12.html

The gist is this: Dubois and Spencer counties, plus the cities of Huntingburg and Jasper, are ponying up half the cost of a highway feasibility study (the rest of the $3.5 million will come from unnamed area companies), thanks to a new Indiana law passed in 2017 that allows local development authorities to qualify for federal highway funds.

And of course Owensboro, which is getting an Interstate (I-165) thanks to the conversion of the Natcher Parkway, wants in.

"Owensboro's not on the beaten path," said Mayor McCheese Tom Watson, a man apparently oblivious to the fact that I-165 is coming. "Our four-lane highway is the Ohio River, and it's been that way for years. But that won't cut it much longer if you're trying to make the city a destination and a distribution point for companies. If you want those visitors and you want those jobs, you need an interstate."

I can see upgrading 231 in Dubois and Martin counties (yes, bypass Jasper and H'burg), and 50 from Loogootee to Washington as a connector, but drop the Interstate idea. There are better ways to spend a buck.

But what do I know?

....Meet the new boss; same as the old boss..... (apologies to Townshend/Daltrey).  Looks like the new Owensboro mayor is taking up where the previous one left off -- trying to get a new Interstate corridor through his burg.  Plainly he doesn't think a spur designation (I-165) is sufficient to ensure traffic through (although it would actually be around the central area of his town) the region.  But like his predecessor, he's too busy dredging up now-abandoned plans -- particularly those involving an adjoining state -- which will likely never see the light of day.  If he really wants a 2di serving Owensboro, a possibility is staring him in the face that he just can't for the life of him see!  :confused: That would be, simply, combining the Audubon and Natcher facilities, along with the connecting section of Bypass 60 around Owensboro, into a single corridor about 100 miles long and calling it I-63.  Of course, some modification to the trumpet interchanges between the parkways and Bypass 60 would have to be made at some point -- put that would be the case regardless of whatever corridor configuration emerged under the original concept.  Such a corridor would terminate (or close) at a national Interstate corridor (I-65, I-69) at both ends; Owensboro would make a fine (and obvious) control city from either, and they'd finally get their long sought-after 2di with less fuss & muss than by any other machinations.   I for one don't begrudge Owensboro or its city government its ambition (they're not doing anything other cities around the country haven't tried or considered) -- but it could clearly be achieved without dragging other jurisdictions such as Indiana into the process.   
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jnewkirk77

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Re: I-67: TN, KY, IN
« Reply #144 on: May 02, 2018, 11:44:45 PM »

If I'm not mistaken the Green River Natcher and Audubon parkways have served Owensboro for at least 40 years. And the last time I checked, they (along with the US 60 bypass) are full freeways.

I still don't know what happened to the "Future I-69 Spur" signs on the Audubon. They've been gone for several years now, even as "Future I-65 Spur" signs have gone up on the Natcher.

Amen.

Not sure on the spur signs.  I forget exactly when they went away, but I think it was during the resurfacing/re-signing projects that were done over the last 4-5 years.
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Flint1979

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Re: I-67: TN, KY, IN
« Reply #145 on: May 03, 2018, 01:33:37 AM »

Has the bypass around Kokomo been completed yet? If so wouldn't that make US-31 a full freeway between Benton Harbor and I-465? I have never used US-31 between South Bend and Indy. I was looking at the gap between Napier and I-196 thinking that could easily become I-67 if that number ever got used. I think between Grand Rapids and Indy is the best case for an I-67.
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sparker

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Re: I-67: TN, KY, IN
« Reply #146 on: May 03, 2018, 05:04:40 AM »

Has the bypass around Kokomo been completed yet? If so wouldn't that make US-31 a full freeway between Benton Harbor and I-465? I have never used US-31 between South Bend and Indy. I was looking at the gap between Napier and I-196 thinking that could easily become I-67 if that number ever got used. I think between Grand Rapids and Indy is the best case for an I-67.

There are 3 separate portions of US 31 between Indianapolis and the MI state line that are full freeway (if not fully Interstate-grade):  I-465 to IN 38, the Kokomo bypass, and US 30 to the state line (which requires a loop TOTSO NB and a single-lane ramp SB from the US 20 freeway south of South Bend).  The remainder is expressway or conventional 4-lane divided rural highway; quite a bit would need to be upgraded to achieve Interstate status.

Once in MI, there's the Napier gap between the north end of the US 31 freeway and I-94 at or near the I-196 junction.  A direct-feed (north US 31 to north I-196 and vice-versa) interchange was originally planned, but that ran afoul of environmental concerns regarding a waterway just south of the present 94/196 interchange.  The most recent plans call for the US 31 freeway to be curved west from its original alignment to intersect I-94 at the Biz 94 interchange east of Benton Harbor (the interchange immediately west of the I-196 divergence); a full cloverleaf with C/D lanes on I-94 is planned. 
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cabiness42

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Re: I-67: TN, KY, IN
« Reply #147 on: May 03, 2018, 09:04:03 AM »

Has the bypass around Kokomo been completed yet? If so wouldn't that make US-31 a full freeway between Benton Harbor and I-465? I have never used US-31 between South Bend and Indy. I was looking at the gap between Napier and I-196 thinking that could easily become I-67 if that number ever got used. I think between Grand Rapids and Indy is the best case for an I-67.

There are 3 separate portions of US 31 between Indianapolis and the MI state line that are full freeway (if not fully Interstate-grade):  I-465 to IN 38, the Kokomo bypass, and US 30 to the state line (which requires a loop TOTSO NB and a single-lane ramp SB from the US 20 freeway south of South Bend).  The remainder is expressway or conventional 4-lane divided rural highway; quite a bit would need to be upgraded to achieve Interstate status.

Once in MI, there's the Napier gap between the north end of the US 31 freeway and I-94 at or near the I-196 junction.  A direct-feed (north US 31 to north I-196 and vice-versa) interchange was originally planned, but that ran afoul of environmental concerns regarding a waterway just south of the present 94/196 interchange.  The most recent plans call for the US 31 freeway to be curved west from its original alignment to intersect I-94 at the Biz 94 interchange east of Benton Harbor (the interchange immediately west of the I-196 divergence); a full cloverleaf with C/D lanes on I-94 is planned. 

To expand a bit on the Indiana segments.  The segment between US 30 at Plymouth and US 24 at Peru doesn't really get enough traffic to justify the expense of upgrading to full freeway.  The only real reason to do it would be to get an interstate designation.  The segment between US 24 at Peru and US 35 at Kokomo and the segment between IN 26 at Kokomo and IN 38 at Noblesville get enough traffic and have several stoplights so they could warrant upgrading.
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bmeiser

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Re: I-67: TN, KY, IN
« Reply #148 on: May 03, 2018, 11:31:56 AM »

Has the bypass around Kokomo been completed yet? If so wouldn't that make US-31 a full freeway between Benton Harbor and I-465? I have never used US-31 between South Bend and Indy. I was looking at the gap between Napier and I-196 thinking that could easily become I-67 if that number ever got used. I think between Grand Rapids and Indy is the best case for an I-67.

There are 3 separate portions of US 31 between Indianapolis and the MI state line that are full freeway (if not fully Interstate-grade):  I-465 to IN 38, the Kokomo bypass, and US 30 to the state line (which requires a loop TOTSO NB and a single-lane ramp SB from the US 20 freeway south of South Bend).  The remainder is expressway or conventional 4-lane divided rural highway; quite a bit would need to be upgraded to achieve Interstate status.

Once in MI, there's the Napier gap between the north end of the US 31 freeway and I-94 at or near the I-196 junction.  A direct-feed (north US 31 to north I-196 and vice-versa) interchange was originally planned, but that ran afoul of environmental concerns regarding a waterway just south of the present 94/196 interchange.  The most recent plans call for the US 31 freeway to be curved west from its original alignment to intersect I-94 at the Biz 94 interchange east of Benton Harbor (the interchange immediately west of the I-196 divergence); a full cloverleaf with C/D lanes on I-94 is planned. 

To expand a bit on the Indiana segments.  The segment between US 30 at Plymouth and US 24 at Peru doesn't really get enough traffic to justify the expense of upgrading to full freeway.  The only real reason to do it would be to get an interstate designation.  The segment between US 24 at Peru and US 35 at Kokomo and the segment between IN 26 at Kokomo and IN 38 at Noblesville get enough traffic and have several stoplights so they could warrant upgrading.

And really once you get north of the truck stop just north of 24, there really aren't many stoplights or drives between there and 30.  I believe that segment was upgraded 30ish years ago, bypassing Rochester and some smaller towns to the north.  It's a pretty easy drive.  I would love for the rest of 31 between Indy and 24 to be upgraded, though.  Especially between Kokomo and Indy.  The few remaining lights and the RxR crossing are getting dangerous with people coming off of the new segments at higher speeds.
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Flint1979

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Re: I-67: TN, KY, IN
« Reply #149 on: May 03, 2018, 03:26:32 PM »

The gap at Napier Road looks like it could be filled in just fine going north through the fields then curving to the east to get around some houses and properties then straight into I-196.
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