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[Bobby5280]

According to the PikePass FAQ: What if I occasionally pull a trailer?

"You can still use a PIKEPASS Sticker. Contact the Customer Service Center at 1-800-745-3727 before and after your trip. If you did not make the class change on your account prior to traveling, you should stop at an attended toll booth on the turnpike(s). A toll collector can make the change for you for that (one way) trip. Another option is to pay the $25 fee for a Portable for the regular vehicle class, and we will not charge you the fee for the second one with the higher class for use when towing a trailer."

[J N Winkler]

In a few weeks, I'll be helping my friend move storage units, and we'll be taking both KTA and OTA turnpikes as part of our trip.  Shunpiking is a possibility, but it would add fairly significant time to a 700-mile one-way journey.

All of the options mentioned in the FAQ entry Bobby5280 cited sound complicated, with a high probability of snafus ensuing if toll processing passes through video pickup of the license plate number (as seems more likely when towing a trailer; in my experience, KTA easily gets tolls wrong even for four-wheel vehicles not towing trailers).  For a onetime trip, I'd shunpike, as that will likely take less time than straightening out a wrong toll, and of course the cost will be significantly less.

[kphoger]

Yeah, the FAQ page–in my opinion–seems to assume your trailer is also registered to you.

[Bobby5280]

It would seem logical for OTA to have some kind of simple PikePass provision for motorists towing something like a U-Haul trailer. Given this is Oklahoma there is no guarantee.

[sprjus4]

If all the toll roads involved accept cash, couldn’t you simply pay at toll plazas?

[Scott5114]

If all the toll roads involved accept cash, couldn’t you simply pay at toll plazas?

It sounds like the vehicle already has a transponder sticker installed, which could cause problems, because 1) KS/OK style stickers are not reusable once removed (so you can't just pull it out and leave it at home, like you can an EZPass) and 2) some toll plazas in Kansas have combo KTAG/cash lanes, so you can't necessarily prevent a KTAG charge by simply paying cash, and 3) in Oklahoma, there are also Pikepass reader gantries located in places that are not associated with a cash toll, which could cause problems (for instance, on the Turner Turnpike, there are tag read points at the Oklahoma City and Tulsa termini–what happens if your tag is read there but not at the mainline plaza at Stroud is a mystery, but I doubt it's going to result in the proper toll charge..)

[kphoger]

If all the toll roads involved accept cash, couldn’t you simply pay at toll plazas?

It sounds like the vehicle already has a transponder sticker installed, which could cause problems, because 1) KS/OK style stickers are not reusable once removed (so you can't just pull it out and leave it at home, like you can an EZPass) and 2) some toll plazas in Kansas have combo KTAG/cash lanes, so you can't necessarily prevent a KTAG charge by simply paying cash, and 3) in Oklahoma, there are also Pikepass reader gantries located in places that are not associated with a cash toll, which could cause problems (for instance, on the Turner Turnpike, there are tag read points at the Oklahoma City and Tulsa termini–what happens if your tag is read there but not at the mainline plaza at Stroud is a mystery, but I doubt it's going to result in the proper toll charge..)

Exactly.

The driving vehicle has a KTAG sticker affixed to the windshield.  We're taking I-35 south to OKC, then I-44 southwest to Wichita Falls and beyond.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but our toll points would be these:

1.  Entering the KTA at I-135 – options are KTAG only lane or combo ticket/KTAG lanes.  The KTAG will read no matter what.

2.  Leaving the KTA at its southern terminal – options are KTAG only lane or combo cash/KTAG lanes.  The KTAG will read no matter what.

3.  Entering the HE Bailey Turnpike at Newcastle – options are PikePass only lane or cash lanes.  Possible to avoid the KTAG being read.

4.  HE Bailey Turnpike toll plaza south of Chickasha – recently built, and I don't recall the setup.  ???

5.  Leaving the HE Bailey Turnpike at Walters – options are PikePass only lane or cash lanes very nearby.  Possible to avoid the KTA being read, but risky?

[Bobby5280]

HE Bailey Turnpike toll plaza south of Chickasha – recently built, and I don't recall the setup.  ???

The new I-44 toll plaza at mile marker 66 is basic looking but still nice. There are two cash lanes for each direction situated outboard from the thru lanes that run through the middle of the plaza. There is a spot update of overhead imagery showing the new plaza in Google Earth/Maps.

There are plans to re-do the Newcastle toll plaza into a similar configuration. The existing plaza, with single outboard PikePass lanes, was built around 25 years ago.

Leaving the HE Bailey Turnpike at Walters – options are PikePass only lane or cash lanes very nearby.  Possible to avoid the KTA being read, but risky?

Just make sure you go through the plaza when human beings are on duty. If you go through the cash lane the toll booth attendant can make any adjustments. I drive from Lawton to Temple from time to time to visit relatives and get off the turnpike at the Walters exit. I have to go through the cash lane in order to exit. There are PikePass readers in that lane. I tell the attendant that I'm exiting for Walters and they adjust the toll so I don't get charged as if I'm going all the way to the turnpike's end at the Randlett exit.

[J N Winkler]

As this is sounding like a Wichita-to-Wichita-Falls itinerary, I had a look at what Google Maps suggests in terms of briefest journey.  The toll route is 4 hours 21 minutes (299 miles) via I-35/I-44 while the non-toll route is 5 hours 16 minutes (313 miles) via I-35/US 62/US 81/SH 79/various connecting routes.  I'd say about 40 minutes of the added travel time comes from dealing with reduced rural speed limits, and the rest from chewing through built-up areas like Haysville, Wellington, Chickasha, and Comanche.  It's possible to do a lot worse in terms of rural congestion and stoplight infestation.

[kphoger]

As this is sounding like a Wichita-to-Wichita-Falls itinerary, I had a look at what Google Maps suggests in terms of briefest journey.  The toll route is 4 hours 21 minutes (299 miles) via I-35/I-44 while the non-toll route is 5 hours 16 minutes (313 miles) via I-35/US 62/US 81/SH 79/various connecting routes.  I'd say about 40 minutes of the added travel time comes from dealing with reduced rural speed limits, and the rest from chewing through built-up areas like Haysville, Wellington, Chickasha, and Comanche.  It's possible to do a lot worse in terms of rural congestion and stoplight infestation.

For shunpiking, I'd take US-81 and US-177 south to the Oklahoma state line.  Then I-35 south from Braman to Ardmore.  Then US-70 and OK/TX-79 west to Wichita Falls.  A lot less through-town driving that way, and a lot more four-lane highway.  Approximately an hour longer than the tolled route, though.

[route56]

From a simple google search "Towing a trailer K-TAG", I found this

HOW DOES THE K-TAG KNOW HOW MANY AXLES I HAVE WHEN I’M PULLING A TRAILER OR A BOAT?

As you drive through the toll lane, there is equipment that counts the axles of your vehicle. This equipment tells us how to bill your account for that trip.

[plain]

From a simple google search "Towing a trailer K-TAG", I found this

HOW DOES THE K-TAG KNOW HOW MANY AXLES I HAVE WHEN I’M PULLING A TRAILER OR A BOAT?

As you drive through the toll lane, there is equipment that counts the axles of your vehicle. This equipment tells us how to bill your account for that trip.

Which makes sense... I mean, the sensors knows the difference between a full blown tractor trailer and a standard 2-axle vehicle right? So the sensors can tell whether or not someone is towing something.

[deathtopumpkins]

HE Bailey Turnpike toll plaza south of Chickasha – recently built, and I don't recall the setup.  ???

The new I-44 toll plaza at mile marker 66 is basic looking but still nice. There are two cash lanes for each direction situated outboard from the thru lanes that run through the middle of the plaza. There is a spot update of overhead imagery showing the new plaza in Google Earth/Maps.

Note that there do appear to be PikePass readers above the cash lanes here: https://goo.gl/maps/wwh1z9qwmQEGeFSy6 so I wouldn't assume you could pay cash at this plaza without the K-TAG being read.

[Scott5114]

HE Bailey Turnpike toll plaza south of Chickasha – recently built, and I don't recall the setup.  ???

The new I-44 toll plaza at mile marker 66 is basic looking but still nice. There are two cash lanes for each direction situated outboard from the thru lanes that run through the middle of the plaza. There is a spot update of overhead imagery showing the new plaza in Google Earth/Maps.

Note that there do appear to be PikePass readers above the cash lanes here: https://goo.gl/maps/wwh1z9qwmQEGeFSy6 so I wouldn't assume you could pay cash at this plaza without the K-TAG being read.

Given that particular plaza is staffed with a human toll collector, one could possibly explain the situation to the toll collector and have them delete the K-TAG charge, since toll collectors at other plazas are known to be able to adjust tolls on the fly. However, this may not be an ability that's available at all plazas. The toll collector would hopefully at least be able to indicate who you would need to talk to in order to get the toll adjusted, however.

[kphoger]

Hmmm..  This might not end up happening.  At least yet.  My friend took a spill on his motorcycle, messed up his knee pretty badly.  Don't know yet what restrictions he may be under when move time happens.

[kphoger]

As I mentioned in another thread, my friend and I did this moving trip on June 22-24.  He only gave a token effort at trying to update his K-Tag account to include a trailer.  Basically, he did two things:

  1.  Before leaving (the night before?), he went on the internet to look for a way to change it online.  He didn't see one.

  2.  When we passed through the southern terminus barrier plaza of the KTA, he told the attendant that the "THANK YOU" sign didn't flash at him upon entry.  He asked her if his tag read and if he was charged the correct amount.  The attendant merely answered that it had worked–didn't say anything about what rate was charged.

So I have no idea how it ended up working out.  It's not my K-Tag, it's not my bank account, it's not my fight to try and fight from a house in Mexico if anything ends up going wrong, so I guess I only care so much.


A week later, though, I took a family vacation to Galveston.  Our PikePass read correctly at every point:  KTA south of Wichita, Pres. George Bush Turnpike all the way from I-35E to I-20, Beltway 8 as a bypass around Houston from I-45 to I-45.  I verified it online just now.

[J N Winkler]

I'm resurrecting this thread after almost two years to note that KTA yesterday sent a mass email to K-Tag holders to say we now have interoperability with "most Florida toll roads except some in the Orlando area"--in other words, SunPass (called out by name elsewhere in the email) but presumably not E-Pass.  The email (as is typical for most KTA public communications) keeps things simple for the normies, so it doesn't state whether this also applies to other agencies within the Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas interoperability area or explain why not all transponder providers in Florida are covered.

[sprjus4]

^ Here’s a map. It appears they will be interoperable later in 2023, however.

https://ksturnpike.com/uploads/images/SunPass-Interoperability-Map,-Jan.-2023.pdf

It’s awesome to finally see these networks begin to link… next is full interoperability between the TxTag-PikePass-KTag network and the E-ZPass network (which includes Florida now).

Then putting states such as Alabama, Georgia, and Louisiana (particularly once I-10 in Alabama and Louisiana get tolled) into that network.

[Ned Weasel]

It's kind of funny that Florida joined the K-Tag/PikePass/TxTag network before E-ZPass when Illinois is only two states away from the K-Tag network.  Florida is officially an E-ZPass state, but you need SunPass Pro in order to be interoperable with E-ZPass, and not just a normal SunPass.  Question for the techies!  This is just a guess on my part, but does normal SunPass use the same sticker transponder technology as K-Tag/PikePass/TxTag?  And I think I recall that E-ZPass readers require a different type of transponder, which I'm guessing is only the plastic box-type, unless that's been updated at some point.  So, does SunPass Pro just have both technologies?  And, at this point, is there a good reason for most folks not to just up and get a SunPass Pro, when that seems to have the widest range of compatibility, short of (the expensive) NationalPass?

[vdeane]

Yes, normal SunPass is just a sticker, and no, E-ZPass can't read stickers.  At all.

Incidentally, I don't think Florida is a full E-ZPass member state, actually - rather, an "affiliate", which lets them accept E-ZPass without actually being part of the IAG and changing their main transponder over.

[J N Winkler]

It's kind of funny that Florida joined the K-Tag/PikePass/TxTag network before E-ZPass when Illinois is only two states away from the K-Tag network.  Florida is officially an E-ZPass state, but you need SunPass Pro in order to be interoperable with E-ZPass, and not just a normal SunPass.  Question for the techies!  This is just a guess on my part, but does normal SunPass use the same sticker transponder technology as K-Tag/PikePass/TxTag?  And I think I recall that E-ZPass readers require a different type of transponder, which I'm guessing is only the plastic box-type, unless that's been updated at some point.

E-ZPass still uses the battery-powered soap-bar transponders.  Providers that offer compatibility with different transponder types are generally using various combinations of dual-mode readers, dual-mode transponders, or mounting multiple readers onto the toll gantries they control.  The IBTTA has an appendix to its National Interoperability Plan that shows the state of play (as of 2019) in terms of platforms used by various agencies.  The Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas interoperability area and SunPass natively use SeGo, the E-ZPass agencies natively use TDM, many other agencies (especially in the Western states) use 6C, and agencies that try to maximize compatibility with different regions (such as NCTA with its Quick Pass) are TDM/SeGo/6C.

Compatibility at the technical level is a necessary but not sufficient condition for interoperability--there also has to be an agreement that provides for two-way billing and the back-office infrastructure to support it across all agencies within a given interoperability zone.  It has taken until this year to get interoperability with SunPass despite it matching Kansas, Oklahoma, and Texas in terms of platform used by 2017, if not much earlier.

So, does SunPass Pro just have both technologies?

I suspect SunPass Pro is dual-mode since the E-ZPass agencies (which represent about 80%-90% of toll revenue collected in the US) have generally expected their out-of-zone peers to match them in terms of platform rather than vice versa.  Passive is generally considered superior to active since there is no battery to go bad and lead to blown reads, but this does not take into account the performance variations among implementations of RFID, even within the same platform.  With my K-Tag, for example, I've had frequent missed reads on the Kansas Turnpike but never on NTTA or OTA toll roads.  That lack of reliability can be tolerable for a seldom-used interurban toll road but would be disastrous for toll collection on an urban freeway or a set of managed lanes that are heavily used by commuters.  So, on top of inertia and market dominance naturally tending to favor continued use of active transponders, the E-ZPass agencies--many of which serve huge commuter populations--need to be very sure any passive alternative is robust.

And, at this point, is there a good reason for most folks not to just up and get a SunPass Pro, when that seems to have the widest range of compatibility, short of (the expensive) NationalPass?

There are several.  SunPass costs money (I think about $14 just to buy a regular passive-only transponder), while KTA gives you sticker transponders for free.  Many agencies also charge toll at different rates depending on your billing address or who issued your transponder (transponder discrimination), as well as a monthly fee just to have a transponder.  Billing terms and the total customer service experience also vary.

I have a sticker K-Tag (free, billed in arrears) for access to the Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas interoperability area (which, per agreement, does not allow transponder discrimination--I don't know if this still holds true for SunPass in Florida), as well as an I-Pass from the Illinois Tollway for access to E-ZPass facilities (free transponder, no monthly charge, account replenishment at $10).  Going to SunPass would actually leave me out of pocket.  Transponder discrimination is both allowed and rife within the E-ZPass area and the I-Pass does not protect me from it, but does afford me the ability to pass toll booths without stopping, and I do not travel on Eastern toll roads often enough to make it financially worthwhile to collect transponders as needed to arbitrage toll rates.

On the other hand, since SunPass also has interoperability with E-ZPass, I will have to unmount the I-Pass and wrap it in foil if I ever take a spring break trip to Florida.

[rte66man]

<snipped>
With my K-Tag, for example, I've had frequent missed reads on the Kansas Turnpike but never on NTTA or OTA toll roads. 

That's on KTA. That tells me they haven't fine tuned their readers. Readers are programmable to a certain extent. One of the adjustments is strength. Another is the "cone" (radius of readable scan).

[Ned Weasel]

I have a sticker K-Tag (free, billed in arrears) for access to the Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas interoperability area (which, per agreement, does not allow transponder discrimination--I don't know if this still holds true for SunPass in Florida), as well as an I-Pass from the Illinois Tollway for access to E-ZPass facilities (free transponder, no monthly charge, account replenishment at $10).

That's the exact same setup I have. I guess whenever "K-Tag Pro" comes out, I'll finally have a good reason to trade them both for a single transponder. I can't find anything saying a SunPass Pro carries any fees beyond the initial $15 purchase and the tolls themselves, though. I guess I never worried about transponder discrimination. Are there any cases where an out-of-area transponder would be charged more than the cash rate (or more than the pay-by-plate rate, if it's an AET facility)?

[bwana39]

I have a K-Tag and this development removes the need for me to avoid electronically tolled toll roads altogether in Texas, though I am not sure a K-Tag will help me if I go HOV in Texas and want to use an express lane where the toll is variable according to occupancy.

In Houston, they have a system where at the payment portal you choose the correct lane for either HOV or Payment .
In Dallas you have to call a number and reserve your HOV spot it is not really HOV friendly.

Texas also has some small-beer toll facilities where transponders, of whatever type, are no good because electronic tolling is not available at all.  One example of this is the toll bridge maintained by Brazoria County that carries the county road continuation of FM 3005 over San Luis Pass southwest of Galveston.  I presume there is a mechanism for these small operators to buy into TxTag, which seems to be at least the de facto statewide transponder network, but that many won't unless they are compelled to do so by state law.

The bridge at San Luis pass  owned by Galveston County as part of its road system.

https://www.galvestoncountytx.gov/Home/Components/ServiceDirectory/ServiceDirectory/100/

TXTag seems to be in 3rd place in users in Texas, not exactly "defacto"  While a lot of people have beefs with NTTA, their TollTag has fewer additional fees and restrictions and is accepted at DFW Airport for long and short-term parking.

[Brandon]

On the other hand, since SunPass also has interoperability with E-ZPass, I will have to unmount the I-Pass and wrap it in foil if I ever take a spring break trip to Florida.

Throwing the I-Pass (EZ Pass) in the glovebox without foil works just fine.  I did exactly that for a trip to Florida in late 2021.  The SunPass Mini was billed while the I-Pass was not.