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[KCRoadFan]

All right, so, looking at the map of northeast Oklahoma and southeast Kansas, here's one thing I've always wondered: as far as the alignment of US 69 between Commerce and the US 160/69 junction east of Columbus and south of Pittsburg, why is it that the main routing of 69 follows the road through Columbus and Picher, rather than the road through Quapaw and Baxter Springs (which is instead designated as "Alt US 69")? For travelers headed north from Miami and Commerce or south from Pittsburg, the latter route, through Baxter Springs, involves no turns (the driver stays on the same road), whereas following the official 69 designation requires two turns. In addition, Picher was abandoned not that long ago due to being deemed too toxic to live in (old lead mine site), so one would think that the powers-that-be would want long-distance through traffic to avoid the area.

Personally, if I were AASHTO, I would swap the designations; that is, route "main 69" through Baxter Springs and Quapaw while putting "Alt 69" on the Columbus-Picher alignment. (Alternatively, the latter road, headed south from Columbus, could instead be designated as a southward extension of K-7; however, that would require KDOT to renumber the mileposts along the entire route. Also, the Oklahoma portion, from Picher to 69 near Commerce, would have to be another number because OK 7 already exists elsewhere in the state; in this case of an extended K-7, I could see Oklahoma's section of the Picher road as similarly being a northward extension of OK 69A. Or, a third option: once 69 is on the Baxter Springs alignment, just turn the Columbus-Picher road over to the respective counties in both states.)

Your thoughts? I wonder if I can get input from people who live in the area, or are at least familiar with it.

(Here's a map of the area, for reference: https://www.google.com/maps/@37.0596904,-94.8425884,11z)

[Scott5114]

I believe all of Alt US-69 was US-66. When 66 was decommissioned in 1985, Alt-69 was simply assigned as a stopgap designation to replace it. At that time Picher had only been declared a Superfund site for two years, and the decision to clear out Picher wasn't until 2006. Presumably ODOT has simply not changed the designation because they don't see any real reason to, with I-44 and I-49 carrying the bulk of the through traffic through the area.

A SH-7 already existing in Oklahoma is no reason to count the designation out; after all, SH-4 and SH-37 both exist in metro OKC and that didn't stop those numbers from being reused for short connectors to AR-4 and AR-37. But the sensible thing to do would be to turn the old 69 alignment over to Ottawa County, because if US-69 is realigned through Quapaw, Picher really has no business still being on the state highway system.

[yakra]

US69Alt looks to spend a significant amount of distance in downtown Baxter Springs, which could lead to congestion.

[bugo]

US 69A was K-26 between Crestline and JCT K-66 until circa 1985.

[edwaleni]

I always thought it was Alt 69 due to the number of rail crossings on US-69 at one time, so the alternate was to help people avoid them. Usually the "Alternate" signage is to assist drivers to avoid certain restrictions, like weight limits or clearances or other controlled obstacles.

Going back it appears all the rail bridges on US 69 have since been replaced. Alt US-69 has one 13 foot 8 inch rail clearance. Many of the rails crossing US-69 have been pulled up so it has way less than in years past.

[US71]

US 69A was K-26 between Crestline and JCT K-66 until circa 1985.

69A /Alt 69 also replaced US 66 south of Riverton

[bugo]

The Alt 69 designation came to be because US 66 had just been decommissioned, and they still wanted a US route along what was formerly US 66. They made an E-W highway into a N-S one.

[rte66man]

The Alt 69 designation came to be because US 66 had just been decommissioned, and they still wanted a US route along what was formerly US 66. They made an E-W highway into a N-S one.

Bugo is correct. Towns didn't want to give up the US highway designation when 66 was decommissioned so this was the compromise. I will have to dig up the references later.

[-- US 175 --]

Another issue with the Picher area goes along with the Superfund mess--the mining there wasn't deep enough, and it's really too dangerous to be doing anything on the surface that adds any weight/vibration.  This makes the area ripe for cave-ins/sinkholes.  The US 69 designation likely should have been moved when the cave-in potential was realized.

[bugo]

There are huge coal mines underneath midtown Tulsa, including the vicinity of the shopping area at 21st and Yale. Occasionally, sinkholes will form in these areas. I am not sure if it was related to the coal mines or not, but there was a sinkhole in the main WB I-44 lanes near Lewis about 10 years ago that had to be repaired. Luckily, nobody ran into it, but if they had, it wouldn't have been pretty.

[Rothman]

There are huge coal mines underneath midtown Tulsa, including the vicinity of the shopping area at 21st and Yale. Occasionally, sinkholes will form in these areas. I am not sure if it was related to the coal mines or not, but there was a sinkhole in the main WB I-44 lanes near Lewis about 10 years ago that had to be repaired. Luckily, nobody ran into it, but if they had, it wouldn't have been pretty.

So...Paint Your Wagon...

[apeman33]

Having lived in the area, my feeling is that nothing's been changed because no one feels the need to change anything. Columbus probably would object to being placed on the "Alternate" route for U.S. 69 rather than the mainline as it's always been.

Also, going through Picher isn't dangerous. Sinkholes are more likely on K-7 north of Columbus (and have caused its closure more than once) for whatever reason than they are on U.S. 69 around Picher.

Picher is currently one of the bases for the Quapaw Nation's emergency services. It's based out of the old high school.

[splashflash]

Routing of a widened US 69 is again going for discussion.,,it looks like a mid instead to western route is now favored.

https://www.fourstateshomepage.com/local-news/pittsburg-news/u-s-69-highway-bypass-project/

https://www.morningsun.net/stories/frontenac-rescinds-support-for-us-69-west-alignment,66104

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScBFBSEcbsNjS9VaXNIdZTMmcXt9sfNSn2i63uymKrfpmNldg/viewform

[brad2971]

Picher (OK), in its own way, is a reason why lead is one of the world's most recycled materials. Even as dirty and nasty as the recycling process is, we should be thankful that lead battery manufacturing and recycling is as close to a closed loop process as one can get in this world.

As for US 69 running through Picher: Unless the Superfund process requires access to Picher via a Oklahoma DOT owned and maintained road, there's no reason why that stretch of US 69 can't be turned over to the county, and US 69 ran onto US 69A.

[MikieTimT]

Took US-69 from Frontenac on the way up to Gardner, KS last weekend to visit in-laws.  The 4 laning is done between Frontenac and Ft. Scott, but the inside lanes on both sides were still closed even though everything is striped.  Looked like they were doing median work.  So, even though it isn't 4 lane limited access south of Ft. Scott, it is now at least 4 lane down to Pittsburg.

I sure do wish Missouri would up the speed limit on I-49 to 75 like the states on the west and south.  I wouldn't be using US-69 quite as much if they did.  Stupid low speed limits on I-59 even though terrain and geometries are better than in Arkansas.