ACCESS Oklahoma

[Bobby5280]

With Oklahoma being in the central part of the US, and arguably at a major hub point in the nation's highway system, the state has a lot of possible future super highway corridors. It's another matter getting Interstate designations if they were ever built, although the "bait" of a future Interstate designation might get communities interested in economic growth opportunity more excited.

The problem is every one of the possible future Interstates in Oklahoma has obstacles. US-412 doesn't have a clear shot at being upgraded. With the possibility the very major "I-50" designation could be burnt on such a short, relatively minor route I'm not even sure I want it upgraded. The only thing more shameless would be some politician trying to call it "Interstate 1." The egos of many politicians know no limits. I really want to see I-45 extended up US-69 to Big Cabin, but we all know the obstacles blocking it in a couple of aging, tiny towns. I think Denver-OKC is a huge missing link in the national scope of the highway system, but it's not on the radar scopes of ODOT. Colorado seems to be doing as little as it can with its highways, never mind building a new super highway corridor. And now we have the NIMBYs and New Urbanist types raising hell about the Access Oklahoma plan.

What 3 digit designation is the Gilcrease Expressway going to get? If the OK-344 designation doesn't get used there I think it would alright to use that on the Kickapoo Turnpike if the Kickapoo Turnpike never gets extended South of I-40. If the Kickapoo Turnpike does end up extended down to Purcell then the OK-335 marker would be better.

I think I-640 would be fine for the East-West Connector, only if the Kilpatrick Turnpike is renamed I-240 and "I-640" starts at the Tri City Connector. Usually I-2XX and I-4XX designations are given to longer loop highways. I usually think of I-6XX routes as being connector routes like I-676 in Philadelphia, I-610 in New Orleans or I-670 in Columbus. There are full loop examples of I-6XX routes, but it seems like more of the full loop and half loop routes are I-2XX and I-4XX designations.

[Scott5114]

What 3 digit designation is the Gilcrease Expressway going to get? If the OK-344 designation doesn't get used there...

The OK-344 designation has already been approved by the Transportation Commission for the Gilcrease.

[jdingus]

So when are they going to sign I-240 on the JKT?

[Plutonic Panda]

So when are they going to sign I-240 on the JKT?

I wonder if ODOT is rethinking this. Any reasonable person would.

[Bobby5280]

Yeah, the I-240 announcement was made some time before Access Oklahoma was unveiled. Still, both efforts involve the Oklahoma Turnpike Authority. I'm sure the Access Oklahoma plan had been in development for quite some time before the OTA went public with it. Surely someone in the OTA privy to both efforts had to notice the idea of signing I-240 on the Kickapoo Turnpike wouldn't make any sense in light of Access Oklahoma plans. Yet the I-240/Kickapoo idea got floated anyway.

[Scott5114]

So when are they going to sign I-240 on the JKT?

Still waiting on FHWA as far as I know.

[I-55]

Yeah, the I-240 announcement was made some time before Access Oklahoma was unveiled. Still, both efforts involve the Oklahoma Turnpike Authority. I'm sure the Access Oklahoma plan had been in development for quite some time before the OTA went public with it. Surely someone in the OTA privy to both efforts had to notice the idea of signing I-240 on the Kickapoo Turnpike wouldn't make any sense in light of Access Oklahoma plans. Yet the I-240/Kickapoo idea got floated anyway.

In a way it tested the waters concerning how broadly the FHWA would consider proposals

[The Ghostbuster]

If the Interstate 240 beltway proposal is not approved, maybe the John Kilpatrick Turnpike could be numbered OK 352. Do the John Kilpatrick and Kickapoo Turnpikes really need to be a part of the Interstate system? It seems to me making the KT OK 340 and the JKT OK 352 would be in line with the recent designations of OK 301, OK 312, OK 344, OK 351, OK 364, and OK 375.

[Scott5114]

If the Interstate 240 beltway proposal is not approved, maybe the John Kilpatrick Turnpike could be numbered OK 352. Do the John Kilpatrick and Kickapoo Turnpikes really need to be a part of the Interstate system? It seems to me making the KT OK 340 and the JKT OK 352 would be in line with the recent designations of OK 301, OK 312, OK 344, OK 351, OK 364, and OK 375.

Ah, the tired old "nothing should ever have an Interstate shield" nonsense argument.

[Bobby5280]

In the case of the Kilpatrick Turnpike, I have no problem with it being designated as I-240 along its entire length. For instance, Westbound motorists on I-44 coming into the North side of OKC would get a big hint via the I-240 shield that they can just keep going straight through the I-35 interchange and take the JKT as a faster connection to I-40 going West out of the OKC area.

I just don't like I-240 being signed on the Kickapoo Turnpike. It would be especially ridiculous if the South extension of the Kickapoo Turnpike was signed as I-240 as well. The whole route would be a spiral (or comma) shape. And I-35 would connect with it in three different places. The Kickapoo Turnpike needs only one route number on its entire length. OK-335 would be alright by me; so would I-835. No other I-835 exists elsewhere.

[skluth]

If the Interstate 240 beltway proposal is not approved, maybe the John Kilpatrick Turnpike could be numbered OK 352. Do the John Kilpatrick and Kickapoo Turnpikes really need to be a part of the Interstate system? It seems to me making the KT OK 340 and the JKT OK 352 would be in line with the recent designations of OK 301, OK 312, OK 344, OK 351, OK 364, and OK 375.

Ah, the tired old "nothing should ever have an Interstate shield" nonsense argument.

Still better than the tired old "all freeways should have an Interstate shield" nonsense argument.

Frankly, I don't care either way and feel whatever a state decides is good enough for me. I'll still figure it out.

[jdingus]

Has there been any talk of I-235 being extended to JKT?

[The Ghostbuster]

I wouldn't oppose an Interstate 235 designation extension to the John Kilpatrick Turnpike, but I highly doubt such an extension will ever be in the works. I think it is more likely that Interstate 444 will be signposted again in Tulsa (which also won't happen).

[Plutonic Panda]

My final thoughts are they should just sign I-240 from the current east terminus at I-40 all the way through SW and NW OKC on the Kilpatrick and end it where it connects at I-35/I-44 junction near Edmond. Extend I-235 to the future I-240/Kilpatrick Turnpike. Sign the Kickapoo Turnpike as I-335 or I-635 and hopefully one day it'll connect at both north and south points on I-35.

The only other interstate I'd like to see in the state is one built from Texarkana to Limon going through OKC and the US-412 interstate conversion across the state. I'm not sure what those numbers will or should be other than I advocate for I-50 on US-412. I-45 should also be extended to Tulsa and maybe Bartlesville but that might be a bit much.

[Bobby5280]

My final thoughts are they should just sign I-240 from the current east terminus at I-40 all the way through SW and NW OKC on the Kilpatrick and end it where it connects at I-35/I-44 junction near Edmond. Extend I-235 to the future I-240/Kilpatrick Turnpike. Sign the Kickapoo Turnpike as I-335 or I-635 and hopefully one day it'll connect at both north and south points on I-35.

If I-240 was signed over the Kilpatrick Turnpike then an extension of I-235 going North of the I-44 Interchange going up to Edmond shouldn't be any problem. If the I-240 re-naming happens to the Kilpatrick I would almost expect I-235 to be named on the Broadway Extension.

I wouldn't give the Kickapoo Turnpike an odd Interstate number however; it would need to be an even-numbered route with it connecting with Interstates at both ends. There's already a I-635 in DFW and not all that far North in Kansas City. Why add a third I-635 to that arrangement? If the Kickapoo Turnpike is ever fully extended down to Purcell and up to near Guthrie the entire route would be about 70 miles in length. That's a big enough half outer loop for a big "835" number.

The only other interstate I'd like to see in the metro is one built from Texarkana to Limon going through OKC and the US-412 interstate conversion across the state. I-45 should also be extended to Tulsa and maybe Bartlesville but that might be a bit much.

Denver-OKC-Texarkana would be a fairly major route. If such a thing was ever built I'm sure it would draw a lot of long-haul commercial traffic. It would be a direct gateway from the mountainous Northwest US down to the Deep South. The corridor would be more than just a Front Range Cities to Gulf Coast thing.

I still like the idea of I-45 going to Big Cabin. However, the US-75 corridor from Henryetta to Tulsa needs to be brought up to Interstate standards. Most of the road would be easy to upgrade. It's just the issue of Olkmulgee and a proper bypass needing to be built that could be a stumbling block. It's the same problem as Muskogee and US-69.

[Plutonic Panda]

My final thoughts are they should just sign I-240 from the current east terminus at I-40 all the way through SW and NW OKC on the Kilpatrick and end it where it connects at I-35/I-44 junction near Edmond. Extend I-235 to the future I-240/Kilpatrick Turnpike. Sign the Kickapoo Turnpike as I-335 or I-635 and hopefully one day it'll connect at both north and south points on I-35.

If I-240 was signed over the Kilpatrick Turnpike then an extension of I-235 going North of the I-44 Interchange going up to Edmond shouldn't be any problem. If the I-240 re-naming happens to the Kilpatrick I would almost expect I-235 to be named on the Broadway Extension.

I wouldn't give the Kickapoo Turnpike an odd Interstate number however; it would need to be an even-numbered route with it connecting with Interstates at both ends. There's already a I-635 in DFW and not all that far North in Kansas City. Why add a third I-635 to that arrangement? If the Kickapoo Turnpike is ever fully extended down to Purcell and up to near Guthrie the entire route would be about 70 miles in length. That's a big enough half outer loop for a big "835" number.

The only other interstate I'd like to see in the metro is one built from Texarkana to Limon going through OKC and the US-412 interstate conversion across the state. I-45 should also be extended to Tulsa and maybe Bartlesville but that might be a bit much.

Denver-OKC-Texarkana would be a fairly major route. If such a thing was ever built I'm sure it would draw a lot of long-haul commercial traffic. It would be a direct gateway from the mountainous Northwest US down to the Deep South. The corridor would be more than just a Front Range Cities to Gulf Coast thing.

I still like the idea of I-45 going to Big Cabin. However, the US-75 corridor from Henryetta to Tulsa needs to be brought up to Interstate standards. Most of the road would be easy to upgrade. It's just the issue of Olkmulgee and a proper bypass needing to be built that could be a stumbling block. It's the same problem as Muskogee and US-69.

Hmmmm I proposed I-635 just because I like I-635 in Dallas so much. The design is amazing. So that's my only argument for that lol

Regarding the Texarkana to Limon/Denver interstate I agree with you. I think if built as a toll free road it would generate waaaaaaay more traffic than people think.

[Plutonic Panda]

Regarding the access Oklahoma projects, is this guy living under a rock!?

https://okcfox.com/news/local/oklahoma-turnpike-expansion-danny-sterling-cleveland-pottawatomie-denise-crosswhite-hader-kevin-stitt-steve-bashore-rarchar-tortorello-norman

[Scott5114]

Discussion of a Denver-OKC interstate moved to: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=27549.0

[Plutonic Panda]

Discussion of a Denver-OKC interstate moved to: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=27549.0

Thanks I think I'm responsible for this going off topic my bad.

[bugo]

It should be illegal for an elected official to blatantly lie to the media. Start with fines, and when they do it a certain number of times, they lose their seat and a new election is held.

[Plutonic Panda]

Good news: https://www.news9.com/story/62596be7356bcc7ecf906729/ota-says-turnpike-expansion-plans-likely-wont-change

[Bobby5280]

It should be illegal for an elected official to blatantly lie to the media. Start with fines, and when they do it a certain number of times, they lose their seat and a new election is held.

Hypocrisy is standard operating procedure for politicians. They'll openly lie and even try to gaslight the public. Meanwhile many of these same jerks are not very fond of the first amendment, wanting to pass laws to ban certain kinds of speech in schools and workplaces. I'm trying not to get political here. Still the hypocrisy of these so-called "lawmakers" is hard to tolerate.

Good news: https://www.news9.com/story/62596be7356bcc7ecf906729/ota-says-turnpike-expansion-plans-likely-wont-change

I really wish the Oklahoma City media would actually look at the maps and see just how few homes and other properties will have to be cleared for the two new turnpikes in the OKC area. To me it looks like more businesses would be affected than home owners. I really think a lot of the people showing up to gripe at the public meetings are only doing so for ulterior motives. Not all have homes that are directly in the proposed ROW. I think a bunch are sounding off because they don't want a super highway running anywhere near their property (the NIMBY factor). Others may be showing up to complain because they have nothing better to do or want to get on TV or something.

The property owners that will have to move do have legit gripes though. It's not exactly easy or cheap to move to a new home these days. Housing availability is low. Prices are so high they're definitely in a bubble; they have no basis in reality with wages. Even rent prices have gone way up. Inflation on everything else is ratcheting up the pain index for consumers. I imagine it could be at least another year or two before OTA can start breaking ground on any of this stuff. That might leave enough time for this price bubble to correct itself. I just pray it doesn't take down the whole damned economy in the process.

[bugo]

What 3 digit designation is the Gilcrease Expressway going to get? If the OK-344 designation doesn't get used there I think it would alright to use that on the Kickapoo Turnpike if the Kickapoo Turnpike never gets extended South of I-40. If the Kickapoo Turnpike does end up extended down to Purcell then the OK-335 marker would be better.

Giving Oklahoma City a x44 Interstate would be like tax cuts for the rich. Taking something from somebody who needs it and giving it to somebody who doesn't need it. Oklahoma City has 2 other 2 digit Interstates, and Tulsa just has one. Leave all the x44 numbers for places like Tulsa and Lawton that only have 1 2 digit Interstate.

[bugo]

I wouldn't oppose an Interstate 235 designation extension to the John Kilpatrick Turnpike, but I highly doubt such an extension will ever be in the works. I think it is more likely that Interstate 444 will be signposted again in Tulsa (which also won't happen).

When was I-444 signed in Tulsa?

[SoonerCowboy]

Has there been any talk of I-235 being extended to JKT?

I have always thought it should extend to JKT at least.