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[swake]

^ Exactly. I’m not buying how a new toll road will cause people to “shunpike”  it. They’ll just continue to take existing routes. It’s not going to divert people onto local roads around it.

Let's not forget that this turnpike will have service roads that won't have tolls if a driver doesn't want to pay. The idea that this route would increase traffic on nearby east-west roads makes no sense. It's going to decrease traffic on those streets. 

[Bobby5280]

That's right. The combination of the East-to-West Connector and the extension of the Kickapoo Turnpike would function as a large relief route. In the scenario of me driving from Lawton to Tulsa, I might choose to take those two turnpikes as a faster way of getting around Oklahoma City rather than just staying on I-44. People in Newcastle, Moore and Norman would have the same options for any road trips to/from Tulsa.

If the tolls aren't too high and the speed limits are fast (70, 75 or 80mph) the two turnpikes will be a great alternative to I-44 moving through OKC. I don't mind taking I-44 thru OKC in off-peak times. I-44 can get jammed up pretty good in rush hour times. That's really true for the zone near the I-40 interchange and fairgrounds going up to the interchange with OK-66/Hefner Parkway and then farther NE over by Penn Square Mall and past the I-235/Broadway Extension interchange. All of I-44 through there can get jammed up pretty bad. The traffic jams aren't quite as soul-crushing as those in DFW. They're still not fun either. You can still burn up a lot of time and fuel in that crap. A high speed toll road going around that nonsense is worth the money during the right times. I just hope the OTA doesn't get the bright idea of using variable pricing on the tolls, like the Texas toll road agencies.

[Plutonic Panda]

^^^ yeah and just wait until they start construction on the I-44/I-40 interchange, the I-44/SH-74 interchange, and the segment of I-44 from May to I-235 to Broadway extension. That might be later this decade early next but if these new roads are built by then they will be very useful in bypassing that which will surely be hell.

[skluth]

^ Exactly. I’m not buying how a new toll road will cause people to “shunpike”  it. They’ll just continue to take existing routes. It’s not going to divert people onto local roads around it.

Let's not forget that this turnpike will have service roads that won't have tolls if a driver doesn't want to pay. The idea that this route would increase traffic on nearby east-west roads makes no sense. It's going to decrease traffic on those streets.

Are you sure about that? The Kilpatrick Extension to OK 152 doesn't have service roads (which I call frontage roads - if you mean otherwise, please explain). Neither does the Norman Spur of the Bailey Turnpike. Are the plans that detailed at this point?

I would be more confident arguing that their local roads will have more traffic simply because there won't be a handy limited access road to avoid the heavier local traffic as more people move into the area.

[swake]

^ Exactly. I’m not buying how a new toll road will cause people to “shunpike”  it. They’ll just continue to take existing routes. It’s not going to divert people onto local roads around it.

Let's not forget that this turnpike will have service roads that won't have tolls if a driver doesn't want to pay. The idea that this route would increase traffic on nearby east-west roads makes no sense. It's going to decrease traffic on those streets.

Are you sure about that? The Kilpatrick Extension to OK 152 doesn't have service roads (which I call frontage roads - if you mean otherwise, please explain). Neither does the Norman Spur of the Bailey Turnpike. Are the plans that detailed at this point?

I would be more confident arguing that their local roads will have more traffic simply because there won't be a handy limited access road to avoid the heavier local traffic as more people move into the area.

The frontage/service roads are on the map for the east/west connector on the Access Oklahoma website starting at Western Ave going east to Douglas. OTA said it would be similar to the Kilpatrick in north OKC.

[Scott5114]

The Norman Spur (SH-4) wasn't urban when it was built and it still isn't. This isn't Texas–we don't build frontage roads for no good reason. So it's a bad thing to compare the Cleveland County turnpikes to.

[skluth]

^ Exactly. I’m not buying how a new toll road will cause people to “shunpike”  it. They’ll just continue to take existing routes. It’s not going to divert people onto local roads around it.

Let's not forget that this turnpike will have service roads that won't have tolls if a driver doesn't want to pay. The idea that this route would increase traffic on nearby east-west roads makes no sense. It's going to decrease traffic on those streets.

Are you sure about that? The Kilpatrick Extension to OK 152 doesn't have service roads (which I call frontage roads - if you mean otherwise, please explain). Neither does the Norman Spur of the Bailey Turnpike. Are the plans that detailed at this point?

I would be more confident arguing that their local roads will have more traffic simply because there won't be a handy limited access road to avoid the heavier local traffic as more people move into the area.

The frontage/service roads are on the map for the east/west connector on the Access Oklahoma website starting at Western Ave going east to Douglas. OTA said it would be similar to the Kilpatrick in north OKC.

Thanks for the clarification. Honestly, even if only Indian Hills was retained parallel to the East-West Connector it would be adequate to handle the traffic. I'm sure Indian Hills could be upgraded to four or six lanes between it and the new highway. The south service/frontage road is actually overkill from my POV.

Interestingly, the sad-looking trailer court shown in the imagery in the NE corner of the proposed I-35/E-W interchange footprint is gone in GSV. That's 30 less homes right there.

[Plutonic Panda]

The one way service frontage system should be standard on every highway, IMO. It’s the most efficient way of routing traffic onto freeways. I am happy they are going with this method and would much prefer it over retaining Indian Hills as a parallel two way road. I suspect this area will quickly build up in the way like the Kilpatrick/Memorial corridor did but much, much faster.

They also plan on converting to current two way frontage system from Moore to Norman to a one way. This entire area will feel like a real major metro when all these projects are said and done.

[Bobby5280]

The Norman Spur (SH-4) wasn't urban when it was built and it still isn't. This isn't Texas–we don't build frontage roads for no good reason. So it's a bad thing to compare the Cleveland County turnpikes to.

The little segment of the H.E. Bailey Turnpike Spur from I-44 over East to the US-62/OK-9 intersection runs through almost entirely rural areas. There is no need for frontage roads on that nearly 8 mile segment. However the effort was a half-ass effort. Farther East from the OK-9/US-62 intersection over to I-35 that road should very much be a turnpike flanked by frontage roads. I think it's still possible to build such a thing, although a OK-9 turnpike in front of Riverwind Casino would probably have to be elevated. But that's a busy traffic area too and 100% worthy of an elevated super highway structure over an existing 4-lane divided frontage road facility.

The East to West Connector will have frontage roads along much of its length. If the OTA was smart they would buy up enough ROW so that frontage roads could be added along parts or all of the Tri-City Connector by Will Rogers Airport and the Southern Extension of the Kickapoo Turnpike. I'm pretty sure once those turnpikes are built they will help spark a good bit of development along their main lines and even more so around their exits.

[MCRoads]

I have lived in the area of the E/W connector (about a mile north) and can safely say, this would be a really, really great thing. Not only would it increase mobility in the metro as a whole, it would be great for development. There was basically nothing in terms of grocery stores or other conveniences while we lived there for at least 5 miles. The closest real grocery store was probably the Wal-Mart market on 4th and eastern. There is now a Costco near 19th and telephone, basically a straight shot from our house with the 34th street bridge, which opened about a year after we left. God, that would have been nice. With the new tollway, I bet the Sooner and Indian Hills project would get some new development. This would increase the number of neighborhoods in the area, spurring even more development. Honestly, they chose a pretty good route for it. It’s undeveloped, and right between Moore and Norman. The only reason I can see that people would be opposed to it, it literally just to be opposed because they want a news story. I think that was discussed further up thread.

Also, making developments in the area right now isn’t a terrible idea, as long as it is done RIGHT. Right now I live in an area where a freeway has been planned for a loping time. But, a developer wanted to develop there. So basically, they developed around the anticipated right of way. It’s called… PLANNING AHEAD. It isn’t that hard.

[skluth]

Turnpike Authority's plan to go straight to Oklahoma Supreme Court is end-run around Pike Off OTA lawsuit, group says

OKLAHOMA CITY –
In the ongoing battle over a controversial turnpike plan, the Oklahoma Turnpike Authority said their latest money move is all about proving the road is necessary.

Others say the agency is trying to get around a lawsuit.

Either way, the move has intensified the fight.

OTA is seeking approval from the Oklahoma Supreme Court as an effort to validate their plan. Opponents say the fight to stop that plan is far from over.

“This is not a one-year-and-done fight, this is a 15-year fight,”  said Amy Cerato of Pike Off OTA.

Access Oklahoma, a plan to build new turnpikes, is moving right along, as OTA said its board approvals look to address “legal challenges”  they’re facing with Pike Off OTA.

“We’re trying to move through this as quickly as possible,”  Transportation Secretary Tim Gatz said.

The Capitol dome is seen on Capitol Hill on November 13, 2019, in Washington, DC.Bipartisan group of senators announce agreement on gun control
That group says they think OTA is moving out of panic rather than seeking certainty that routes are needed.

“They are trying to push this as fast as they can, to try to prove that they are the big bully on the block and they can do whatever they want,”  Cerato said.

The group said it thinks OTA is trying to avoid the lawsuit by seeking validation from the Supreme Court. OTA said that’s not the case.

“We’re not side-stepping or going around anything. We’re actually moving quicker toward the resolution so everyone’s got certainty,”  Gatz said.

Link in headline

[The Ghostbuster]

If you had to take a wild guess, who do you think the Oklahoma Supreme Court will rule in favor of?

[Great Lakes Roads]

If you had to take a wild guess, who do you think the Oklahoma Supreme Court will rule in favor of?

The OTA, of course...

[JMoses24]

http://twitter.com/KOCOAlyse/status/1546535801093226496
At today’s meeting, the Oklahoma Transportation Commission approved the South Extension, the East-West Connector and the Tri-Cities connector.

[Bobby5280]

Does the OTA have any time table when construction could begin on the East-West Connector, Kickapoo South Extension and Tri-City Connector? The East-West Connector is obviously one I'd like to see built sooner than later.

[Alps]

http://twitter.com/KOCOAlyse/status/1546535801093226496
At today’s meeting, the Oklahoma Transportation Commission approved the South Extension, the East-West Connector and the Tri-Cities connector.

Found a decent map. https://www.kosu.org/energy-environment/2022-05-05/in-light-of-lawsuit-council-conditionally-approves-funds-for-oklahoma-turnpike-authority

[The Ghostbuster]

Any idea what these proposed highways might be designated if they are eventually constructed? The north-south one (Kickapoo Turnpike Extension) could be OK 340, and the east-west one could be OK 335.

[Bobby5280]

I'm kind of hoping for some kind of Interstate designation to give a more obvious suggestion to motorists passing through OKC they can use the new turnpikes to bypass OKC at higher speed. If the routes are given state highway numbers some motorists might not get the idea. For instance, if the Kickapoo Turnpike and East-West Connector Turnpike were labeled something like "I-844" the hint would be pretty obvious.

I hope a North extension for the Kickapoo Turnpike could be built from Luther up and over to I-35 South of Guthrie. Such a thing would be an effective I-35 bypass route for OKC and be worthy of a "I-x35" designation.

[plain]

Interstate designation or not, this will give OKC a beltway that will actually function as such, or at least come closer to such more than what is there now.

[Scott5114]

I think the east-west connector is more likely to be 337 than 335.

Not really sure about the loop by the airport. 352 perhaps?

[Plutonic Panda]

Email I got:

ACCESS Oklahoma's next steps
You are receiving this email due to your expressed interest in the ACCESS Oklahoma program, which will provide critical enhancements to our state’s transportation system. The Oklahoma Turnpike Authority announced its 15-year, long-range plan Feb. 22. Since then, OTA staff developed a financial plan as engineers continue collecting information from the field. Below are highlights of recent events and upcoming meetings.

Last month, the OTA board met in a special meeting to approve the following:

Resolution authorizing the termination of a $200 million line of credit, which the Council of Bond Oversight authorized with conditions regarding pending litigation at its May 2022 meeting. The line of credit was terminated June 15.
Resolution authorizing issuance of revenue bonds for purpose of financing ACCESS Oklahoma turnpike projects.
Resolution authorizing an application with the Council of Bond Oversight for financing ACCESS Oklahoma turnpike projects.
Resolution directing an application to the Oklahoma Supreme Court for validation of bonds to be issued for purpose of financing ACCESS Oklahoma turnpike projects at issue in pending litigation.
Proposed design routes for new ACCESS Oklahoma turnpike alignments to send to the Oklahoma Transportation Commission for approval. The Commission serves as the governing body for the Oklahoma Department of Transportation.
Earlier this month during its regularly scheduled meeting, the Oklahoma Transportation Commission approved the location of the new routes proposed in the ACCESS Oklahoma program. This approval only verifies the proposed routes do not conflict with existing or planned Department of Transportation highways as well as ensures proper connection and function with the current highway system.

July 8, OTA delivered to the Council of Board Oversight an application to approve OTA’s proposed issuance of revenue bonds. The Council could take up this matter at its next meeting scheduled for later this month. If it approves, OTA will petition the Oklahoma Supreme Court to validate OTA’s use of bonds to finance the construction of the proposed routes in the ACCESS Oklahoma program at issue in pending litigation. Such validation will allow the OTA to move forward with the process of issuing bonds, the first of several during the long-range plan. The OTA is targeting its first bond issue sometime in late 2022 to early 2023.

The OTA continues to update the ACCESS Oklahoma website to include more project-specific information for each corridor of the program. You may see the updates and learn more about ACCESS Oklahoma at www.accessoklahoma.com

[JMoses24]

I'm kind of hoping for some kind of Interstate designation to give a more obvious suggestion to motorists passing through OKC they can use the new turnpikes to bypass OKC at higher speed. If the routes are given state highway numbers some motorists might not get the idea. For instance, if the Kickapoo Turnpike and East-West Connector Turnpike were labeled something like "I-844" the hint would be pretty obvious.

I hope a North extension for the Kickapoo Turnpike could be built from Luther up and over to I-35 South of Guthrie. Such a thing would be an effective I-35 bypass route for OKC and be worthy of a "I-x35" designation.

Pending the FHWA approvals, the current portion of the Kickapoo is supposed to be a part of I-240. My guess is the south extension gets a 3 digit OK State Route designation. You can theoretically make the Tri-City Connector and the East-West Connector into another 3DI, but more likely, those get the same number as the South Kickapoo.

[Bobby5280]

Even before the ACCESS Oklahoma announcement I thought the notion of naming the Kickapoo Turnpike as I-240 was a silly idea. I don't mind I-240 being labeled across Airport Road and the Kilpatrick Turnpike. That at least makes some logical sense. Pushing the designation way out east to the Kickapoo Turnpike is just too much.

The ACCESS Oklahoma plan changes the context of this situation. The Kickapoo Turnpike will ultimately be extended down to I-35 near Purcell. The best thing would be for that turnpike to have only one route number, be it a state highway number or an Interstate number. I think it would be stupid to have the Northern section called I-240 and some other number applied going South of I-40.

[Plutonic Panda]

Good news: https://kfor.com/news/local/council-approves-500-million-in-revenue-bonds-for-oklahoma-turnpike-expansion/

[The Ghostbuster]

How soon might construction begin on these new roads, assuming the locals and the NIMBYS don't force the projects to be canceled?