AARoads Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  


Thanks to everyone for the feedback on what errors you encountered at https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=33904.0
Corrected several already and appreciate your patience as we work through the rest.

Author Topic: Vine Street (US183) in Hays Looks...Rather Interesting  (Read 2079 times)


  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 19228
  • Nit picker of unprecedented pedantry

  • Age: 33
  • Location: Norman, OK...?
  • Last Login: Today at 06:24:59 PM
    • Denexa 100% Plastic Playing Cards
Re: Vine Street (US183) in Hays Looks...Rather Interesting
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2022, 08:08:09 PM »

I stayed in Hays for a weekend last year, so I got to go through this a few times. It's really not that bad once you get the hang of it. Certainly better than one of those horrific five-lane monstrosities most towns that size have as their main drag.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef


  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 65
  • I mainly focus on Minnesota

  • Location: Anoka County, MN
  • Last Login: Today at 01:14:36 AM
    • University of Minnesota's Center for Transportation Studies
Re: Vine Street (US183) in Hays Looks...Rather Interesting
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2022, 10:06:14 PM »

That example in Hays is comparable to this one in St. Michael, MN. Also a small town, but mainly influenced by suburban growth of Minneapolis.
Student at the University of Minnesota.
Quote from: Robby Valentine
Life is just a fading star, it's going too fast.


  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3250
  • Age: 67
  • Location: Palm Springs, CA
  • Last Login: September 06, 2023, 12:18:37 AM
Re: Vine Street (US183) in Hays Looks...Rather Interesting
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2022, 10:44:39 PM »

I wish more rural and small town interchanges were like this. A lot easier than trying to turn left from the offramp onto a busy road. A lot of those Midwest diamonds are dangerous, especially when there are nearby truck stops and Walmarts concentrating all the local traffic along the crossroad.


  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 47
  • Location: Hays, KS
  • Last Login: November 10, 2023, 06:47:24 AM
Re: Vine Street (US183) in Hays Looks...Rather Interesting
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2022, 10:52:03 PM »

I was on the city commission when this idea was first brought up. It was first proposed by our city staff and then we went to KDOT for approval. I voted for and supported this project.

If you had to make a left or otherwise navigate this area prior to the project, you'd understand better why we did what we did. We eliminated an inefficient stop light at 32nd/33rd, improved access on the west side of Vine south of I70, eliminated a dangerous bottleneck where 41st came out on Vine (from the west in front of the Baymont) and gained "left hand" turning from westbound 41st onto Vine that wasn't possible before.

The biggest push back was connecting 37th thru to Vine. There was a big hotel there prior and the only access to the west was on 32nd/33rd or the west side access road that connected to 41st. Removing the 41st connection in front of the gas station and Baymont was a very good thing, but people who lived to the west of Vine on 37th just thought it would cause all of this traffic. They even came to a commission meeting and had a whole presentation on how semis would now use 37th and kids would die. It was pretty over the top. I don't doubt traffic has increased, but it's local neighborhood traffic. Coming down 41st to Skyline then east to 37th was absolutely the right decision. It took political willpower to get it done, but I still firmly think it was the right decision.

I would say when we passed it that opinion was about 50/50 on it. Those opposed were quite vocal and honestly had some legitimate concerns. Obviously no project is without some problems or drawbacks. Just the shear magnitude of the project and so many roundabouts in such a small area for a place that had never before had them was the biggest issue. There are still people very opposed to what was done. But I would say now that it's complete the majority is very glad this project was done. You may move thru Vine slower, but not having to stop at that 32nd/33rd light is a major time win. And coming out of Home Depot down 41st directly to left on Vine avoids the 43rd light and further south again the dreaded 32nd/33rd light. Businesses on the west side of Vine are better off because traffic can now actually get back onto Vine and back to the interstate rather than playing frogger to get a left made. Most people will still willingly make fun of it for laughs but then will readily admit they like it because overall it's much more efficient than before and they get thru quicker. And it's safer than before. Not everyone was converted, but I feel confident saying a majority of the community is pleased with the result.

For a comparison of what I was like before, look at Abilene I70 and K15 interchange. It has all the problems we had, only on a smaller scale. If you think about it, this was one of the few ways we could fix this poorly designed 1960s interstate plan for the next 50 years.

One regret I have is not pushing The Mall harder to allow us to drop 33rd south in a curve where the Starbucks is now to match up with 32nd. That would have fixed the intersection and avoided the teardrop roundabout. But at the time things were different, the political environment wasn't conducive to that and we were told we didn't have the money. I'm not sure that last part is actually true, but at the time it's what we were told.

Long term, this is going to be good for the community. It's safer, moves traffic more efficiently and opens up land to the east and west of Vine for additional commercial development that otherwise may not have been viable to develop.

This was also to be funded entirely from hotel guest tax, so not a penny of local money was used. Later, after we got into design we applied for and we're awarded a federal grant, but the local portion is still being paid by a small increase in guest bed tax.

So, say what you like, but I'm still very proud of this project. It was the right decision and I think 20, 30 or 50 years from now, that will be proven out.


  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 329
  • Age: 56
  • Location: Garden City, KS
  • Last Login: November 08, 2023, 06:01:52 PM
Re: Vine Street (US183) in Hays Looks...Rather Interesting
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2022, 02:49:13 AM »

The couple of times I've driven up Vine since the project's been completed, I have to say that I agree with everything situveux1 said. The 32nd/33rd traffic light was especially bad. Left turns were a nightmare and I always used 27th to get to my nephew's apartment at Hall and 37th because it was easier to get there that way than to take 33rd.

I was wondering why either 32nd or 33rd wasn't modified more. Curving 33rd to the south to meet up in a single circle with Vine and 32nd would have been better, but I understand why that wasn't done now.


  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 58
  • Age: 24
  • Location: Las Cruces, NM
  • Last Login: August 21, 2023, 06:06:09 PM
Re: Vine Street (US183) in Hays Looks...Rather Interesting
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2022, 12:40:04 AM »

I think the project came out quite nice.
That double teardrop roundabout (figure-8 roundabout) combo at Vine and 32nd/33rd is probably the first one I've ever seen. Ideally, if there were enough room, they could realign the streets or make it a big oval shaped roundabout.


Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.