Toll road service area positioning

Started by 1995hoo, July 30, 2012, 03:24:11 PM

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1995hoo

One of the threads about the New Jersey Turnpike prompted me to think of something I was wondering about a couple of weeks ago regarding service areas–specifically, how they're located. I've lived in Virginia for almost my entire life and most of my longer-distance toll-road travel has been on the ticket-system toll roads in the Northeast, most frequently the New Jersey and Pennsylvania Turnpikes. I guess you could count the JFK Highway (I-95 northeast of Baltimore) and the Delaware Turnpike as "non-ticket-system toll roads," although I do not count them because they don't use ramp tolls (anymore, in Delaware's case). As a kid I never travelled to Florida and the first time I used Florida's Turnpike was in June 2011.

What I found interesting in Florida was the way the service plazas were positioned in the median even on the "ticket system" portion, and there was nothing preventing a driver from turning around via the service area if he so chose. The turnpikes in the Northeast do not do that–with a few exceptions, service plazas are located on the outside (accessed from the right lane) and you can only reach them from that side of the road. The New Jersey Turnpike goes so far as to put a fence atop the median barrier near the service areas, presumably to discourage people from trying to climb over to get to the service plaza on the other side. One notable exception is the New Baltimore service area on the Thruway, where the plaza is located west of the Thruway and northbound traffic uses an overpass to get to and from the facility. I seem to recall the car park being divided to prevent people from making U-turns through the service area.

The toll roads that use barriers, on the other hand, often have service areas in the median, such as the Garden State Parkway; you could also count the JFK Highway and Delaware Turnpike in this category. The "No U-Turn" paranoia isn't present on those roads. The Vince Lombardi Service Area in New Jersey would be a special case because it's outside the limits of the Turnpike's ticket system.

Anyway, long way of getting to the point: I found myself thinking that it seems inefficient to build two sets of structures, especially things like underground gas storage tanks and the like, every time you want to set up a service area. The New Baltimore plaza on the Thruway made eminent sense when I first saw it some 10 or 11 years ago, although I recognize why building overpasses to reach service areas might be undesirable where it can be avoided. But the Florida setup was the first time I could recall seeing median-based service plazas on a ticket-system toll road and I found myself thinking, "You know, this makes a lot of sense, and if you're paranoid about U-turns you could just design the place to prevent traffic from crossing over." If you really wanted to do it right you could probably set up the gas station with a wall down the middle to segregate the traffic.

So what is the rationale for preferring to locate the service plazas on the outside of the road, given that it requires the construction of additional facilities and adds the expense of additional maintenance? I suppose there's a desire to avoid left-lane exits and entrances, although I have no idea whether that alone is a compelling enough rationale. (I note that some of the ticket-system toll roads were built during the era when left-side exits and entrances were a lot more common than they are now.) Does the added service area income in the form of additional leasing fees and the like (due to the larger number of facilities if you build two plazas instead of one) really outweigh the extra expense of constructing and maintaining the extra service areas? Or is there some other particular consideration as to why putting them on the outside is preferred?

(I also recall that the one motorway service area I've visited in England, on the M4 near Reading, is likewise on the outside, accessed from the left lane given that you drive on the other side. So it's not unique to ticket-system toll roads in the USA.)
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.


ftballfan

Even though this is not a service area, the Clare rest area is located in the median of US-10/US-127 just north of Clare. The driveways are not connected in any way.

bulldog1979

I would say that part of the justification to placing rest areas or service plazas on the outside of the travel lanes is to provide a right exit and entrance, instead of left exits and entrances. That keeps the slower traffic to the outside as it prepares to exit or comes up to speed on re-entry.

All but one of the oases in the Chicago area have the facilities located over the road, but the parking lots are on the outside of the travel lanes to provide a right exit and entrance. (The DeKalb Oasis is on one side of the road, but it has segregated parking and an overpass for the other direction of traffic.)

hbelkins

The Sideling Hill plaza on the Pennsylvania Turnpike is one facility for both directions of travel, served by a trumpet interchange. There's no way for motorists to make a U-turn here. I'm not sure what the cost differences would be in building a separate facility vs. building a bridge to serve a single facility.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

jeffandnicole

The Molly Pitcher Service Area on the NJ Turnpike Southbound between Exits 8A & 8 at one point served traffic from both directions - ramps on the northbound side were located on the right side of the roadway, crossing over to the service plaza.


PHLBOS

Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 31, 2012, 08:27:51 AM
The Molly Pitcher Service Area on the NJ Turnpike Southbound between Exits 8A & 8 at one point served traffic from both directions - ramps on the northbound side were located on the right side of the roadway, crossing over to the service plaza.
When were those ramps added?  Are you sure those ramps from the northbound Turnpike aren't restricted to "Official Vehicles Use ONLY" or a temporary construction-vehicle related measure?

I ask because the northbound Joyce Kilmer Service Area isn't located too far away from Molly Pitcher.
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Compulov

#6
Quote from: hbelkins on July 30, 2012, 05:58:51 PM
The Sideling Hill plaza on the Pennsylvania Turnpike is one facility for both directions of travel, served by a trumpet interchange. There's no way for motorists to make a U-turn here. I'm not sure what the cost differences would be in building a separate facility vs. building a bridge to serve a single facility.

Ditto the Allentown service plaza on the NE Extension. IIRC, they had a barrier between two sets of pumps (and parking lots), so you could only exit in the direction you entered. It also has a somewhat unique ramp setup. Instead of a trumpet, it has basically a RIRO setup, but with traffic driving on the wrong side of the road, so you don't need a loop (or another bridge to cross traffic going the other way, like in a stack).

Edit: Shows how much I paid attention (never stop at Sideling Hill Plaza)... it has the same "unique" ramp setup.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: 1995hoo on July 30, 2012, 03:24:11 PM
I guess you could count the JFK Highway (I-95 northeast of Baltimore) and the Delaware Turnpike as "non-ticket-system toll roads," although I do not count them because they don't use ramp tolls (anymore, in Delaware's case). As a kid I never travelled to Florida and the first time I used Florida's Turnpike was in June 2011.

Though there were ramp tolls on both (in the case of the JFK Highway in Maryland, up to the early 1980's, I don't recall when they were removed from the Delaware Turnpike).

Quote from: 1995hoo on July 30, 2012, 03:24:11 PM
What I found interesting in Florida was the way the service plazas were positioned in the median even on the "ticket system" portion, and there was nothing preventing a driver from turning around via the service area if he so chose. The turnpikes in the Northeast do not do that–with a few exceptions, service plazas are located on the outside (accessed from the right lane) and you can only reach them from that side of the road. The New Jersey Turnpike goes so far as to put a fence atop the median barrier near the service areas, presumably to discourage people from trying to climb over to get to the service plaza on the other side.

The Ohio Turnpike and Indiana Toll Road has always positioned its service plazas in "pairs," one opposite the other.  In places, the Pennsylvania Turnpike has also done this, but for reasons not clear to be, most of the plazas on the N.J. Turnpike are not in pairs across from each other.

Quote from: 1995hoo on July 30, 2012, 03:24:11 PM
One notable exception is the New Baltimore service area on the Thruway, where the plaza is located west of the Thruway and northbound traffic uses an overpass to get to and from the facility. I seem to recall the car park being divided to prevent people from making U-turns through the service area.

As H.B. pointed out, the Sidling Hill service plaza on the Pennsylvania Turnpike is configured this way, as are both plazas on the Turnpike's Northeast Extension (I-476).

Quote from: 1995hoo on July 30, 2012, 03:24:11 PM
The toll roads that use barriers, on the other hand, often have service areas in the median, such as the Garden State Parkway; you could also count the JFK Highway and Delaware Turnpike in this category. The "No U-Turn" paranoia isn't present on those roads. The Vince Lombardi Service Area in New Jersey would be a special case because it's outside the limits of the Turnpike's ticket system.

When the JFK Highway had tolls on the ramps, the breaks in the barriers separating northbound and southbound traffic at the Maryland House and Chesapeake House were gated, since by making a "U" turn, it was possible to evade the ramp tolls (the ramp tolls were only  on the side of the interchanges "facing away" from the main toll barrier at Perryville, so traffic having paid there was never subject to a ramp toll).

Quote from: 1995hoo on July 30, 2012, 03:24:11 PM
Anyway, long way of getting to the point: I found myself thinking that it seems inefficient to build two sets of structures, especially things like underground gas storage tanks and the like, every time you want to set up a service area. The New Baltimore plaza on the Thruway made eminent sense when I first saw it some 10 or 11 years ago, although I recognize why building overpasses to reach service areas might be undesirable where it can be avoided. But the Florida setup was the first time I could recall seeing median-based service plazas on a ticket-system toll road and I found myself thinking, "You know, this makes a lot of sense, and if you're paranoid about U-turns you could just design the place to prevent traffic from crossing over." If you really wanted to do it right you could probably set up the gas station with a wall down the middle to segregate the traffic.

So what is the rationale for preferring to locate the service plazas on the outside of the road, given that it requires the construction of additional facilities and adds the expense of additional maintenance? I suppose there's a desire to avoid left-lane exits and entrances, although I have no idea whether that alone is a compelling enough rationale. (I note that some of the ticket-system toll roads were built during the era when left-side exits and entrances were a lot more common than they are now.) Does the added service area income in the form of additional leasing fees and the like (due to the larger number of facilities if you build two plazas instead of one) really outweigh the extra expense of constructing and maintaining the extra service areas? Or is there some other particular consideration as to why putting them on the outside is preferred?

Putting them on the right means traffic exits and enters the mainline of the highway on the right.  Though that could be accomplished with median service plazas by building flyover ramps.

Quote from: 1995hoo on July 30, 2012, 03:24:11 PM
(I also recall that the one motorway service area I've visited in England, on the M4 near Reading, is likewise on the outside, accessed from the left lane given that you drive on the other side. So it's not unique to ticket-system toll roads in the USA.)

The ones I have seen on motorways in continental Europe (on "free" motorways) have always been on the right side. 
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

1995hoo

Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 31, 2012, 08:27:51 AM
The Molly Pitcher Service Area on the NJ Turnpike Southbound between Exits 8A & 8 at one point served traffic from both directions - ramps on the northbound side were located on the right side of the roadway, crossing over to the service plaza.

Are you positive about that? I know the ramps to which you refer, but I've been travelling the Turnpike since the early 1970s (way less often nowadays as traffic and construction have caused me to find other routes) and I do not ever remember any service area on the New Jersey Turnpike serving traffic from both directions, ever, with the exception of the Vince Lombardi Service Area. A look at the satellite view for the plaza you mention shows that there is what appears to be a Turnpike Authority office building just to the south and that the ramps are probably there to give access to it. Google Maps says it's a state police building.



Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 31, 2012, 08:56:58 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 30, 2012, 03:24:11 PM
I guess you could count the JFK Highway (I-95 northeast of Baltimore) and the Delaware Turnpike as "non-ticket-system toll roads," although I do not count them because they don't use ramp tolls (anymore, in Delaware's case). As a kid I never travelled to Florida and the first time I used Florida's Turnpike was in June 2011.

Though there were ramp tolls on both (in the case of the JFK Highway in Maryland, up to the early 1980's, I don't recall when they were removed from the Delaware Turnpike).

I don't recall the ramp tolls on the JFK Highway. I have vague recollections of the ones on the Delaware Turnpike, but I think they were removed sometime in the early 1980s.


Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 31, 2012, 08:56:58 AMThe Ohio Turnpike and Indiana Toll Road has always positioned its service plazas in "pairs," one opposite the other.  In places, the Pennsylvania Turnpike has also done this, but for reasons not clear to be, most of the plazas on the N.J. Turnpike are not in pairs across from each other.

I've only been on the Ohio Turnpike once (en route to Michigan and Ontario in 1987) and I've never been to Indiana at all, so I'll take your word for it, but you're kind of getting at a part of what prompted me to wonder about the issue. If you're going to build two service areas right across from each other, why not just have the two carriageways pull apart and drop the service area in the middle and save the cost of building two?


Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 31, 2012, 08:56:58 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 30, 2012, 03:24:11 PM
One notable exception is the New Baltimore service area on the Thruway, where the plaza is located west of the Thruway and northbound traffic uses an overpass to get to and from the facility. I seem to recall the car park being divided to prevent people from making U-turns through the service area.

As H.B. pointed out, the Sidling Hill service plaza on the Pennsylvania Turnpike is configured this way, as are both plazas on the Turnpike's Northeast Extension (I-476).

I wasn't trying to give an exhaustive list. Notice I did say "one notable exception." I believe there is another somewhere on the I-90 part of the Thruway, although I haven't used that road between Albany and I-390. That's why I just gave one example. I have not gone far enough on the Northeast Extension to encounter the service areas there because that road is simply too far out of the way to be of much use for me. Problem there is that while I'd like to check it off my roadgeeking list, every time I'm headed in that direction it's at a time when the traffic considerations make it undesirable to head that far east before going north. There's only so much delay I'm willing to suffer for roadgeeking purposes, especially if my wife is in the car as she loses patience with traffic even sooner than I do.



Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 31, 2012, 08:56:58 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 30, 2012, 03:24:11 PM
Anyway, long way of getting to the point: I found myself thinking that it seems inefficient to build two sets of structures, especially things like underground gas storage tanks and the like, every time you want to set up a service area. The New Baltimore plaza on the Thruway made eminent sense when I first saw it some 10 or 11 years ago, although I recognize why building overpasses to reach service areas might be undesirable where it can be avoided. But the Florida setup was the first time I could recall seeing median-based service plazas on a ticket-system toll road and I found myself thinking, "You know, this makes a lot of sense, and if you're paranoid about U-turns you could just design the place to prevent traffic from crossing over." If you really wanted to do it right you could probably set up the gas station with a wall down the middle to segregate the traffic.

So what is the rationale for preferring to locate the service plazas on the outside of the road, given that it requires the construction of additional facilities and adds the expense of additional maintenance? I suppose there's a desire to avoid left-lane exits and entrances, although I have no idea whether that alone is a compelling enough rationale. (I note that some of the ticket-system toll roads were built during the era when left-side exits and entrances were a lot more common than they are now.) Does the added service area income in the form of additional leasing fees and the like (due to the larger number of facilities if you build two plazas instead of one) really outweigh the extra expense of constructing and maintaining the extra service areas? Or is there some other particular consideration as to why putting them on the outside is preferred?

Putting them on the right means traffic exits and enters the mainline of the highway on the right.  Though that could be accomplished with median service plazas by building flyover ramps.

Correct about right-side exits, I suggested that in my comment. I suppose fly-under ramps would work as well (like the pit lane at the Yas Marina Circuit in Abu Dhabi). What I'm wondering is whether the "exit/enter on the right" is itself a compelling enough motivation to justify the cost of building duplicative service areas or whether the motivation was something else, given that you do sometimes see median-located plazas (Florida's Turnpike being the example I cited because that's what prompted me to speculate about the issue). I know there are some people on this forum who have suggested that the Maryland House approaches ought to be redesigned to use flyover ramps.

"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

rawmustard

Quote from: 1995hoo on July 31, 2012, 09:22:33 AM
I've only been on the Ohio Turnpike once (en route to Michigan and Ontario in 1987) and I've never been to Indiana at all, so I'll take your word for it, but you're kind of getting at a part of what prompted me to wonder about the issue. If you're going to build two service areas right across from each other, why not just have the two carriageways pull apart and drop the service area in the middle and save the cost of building two?

One practical reason (besides the already-mentioned right exit/right entrance) for having the service plazas outside is so employees can get to them without having to either use the toll road or a pedestrian tunnel from their parking area. Perhaps also there's enough traffic at certain times to warrant a location for each direction.

vdeane

Quote from: 1995hoo on July 31, 2012, 09:22:33 AM
I believe there is another somewhere on the I-90 part of the Thruway, although I haven't used that road between Albany and I-390.
Angola, west of Buffalo and the last one before Pennsylvania.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Scott5114

The Kansas Turnpike is a ticket system turnpike that uses median service plazas. Originally there was no way of crossing over at them; with the reconstruction you now could, theoretically. However I believe the ticket notes the direction of travel so if you have an "impossible" itinerary they just ring it up as full fare, as if you got on at Oklahoma and got off at Kansas City.

You can't have a thread like this without mention of the Wellston McDonalds (which is sadly now gone). The WB Turner Turnpike onramp from Wellston, OK begins at OK-66, passes through a coin-op toll gate, and then actually lets out into what was the service plaza parking lot. There is/was a small parking lot off the ramp upstream of the gate so employees could park without having to go through the toll gate (presumably from there the only way out would be onto the westbound turnpike, with no exits until Oklahoma City.)
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NE2

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 31, 2012, 12:08:24 PM
You can't have a thread like this without mention of the Wellston McDonalds (which is sadly now gone). The WB Turner Turnpike onramp from Wellston, OK begins at OK-66, passes through a coin-op toll gate, and then actually lets out into what was the service plaza parking lot. There is/was a small parking lot off the ramp upstream of the gate so employees could park without having to go through the toll gate (presumably from there the only way out would be onto the westbound turnpike, with no exits until Oklahoma City.)
Street View shows the building, and some interesting signage at the onramp: http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=35.679893,-97.054805&spn=0.003887,0.008256&gl=us&t=k&z=18&layer=c&cbll=35.679821,-97.054812&panoid=jZvMwsGQHUcN6SMZVfit4w&cbp=12,192.48,,0,-10.88
Employees would have been able to head back north on the ramp.
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agentsteel53

Quote from: hbelkins on July 30, 2012, 05:58:51 PM
The Sideling Hill plaza on the Pennsylvania Turnpike is one facility for both directions of travel, served by a trumpet interchange. There's no way for motorists to make a U-turn here. I'm not sure what the cost differences would be in building a separate facility vs. building a bridge to serve a single facility.

there is a rest area on I-17 which is like this, except it has a diamond interchange, not a trumpet.  it is located on the west side of the road, so northbound traffic has to cross under the freeway.

not sure why they built it that way.
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1995hoo

Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 31, 2012, 12:26:29 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 30, 2012, 05:58:51 PM
The Sideling Hill plaza on the Pennsylvania Turnpike is one facility for both directions of travel, served by a trumpet interchange. There's no way for motorists to make a U-turn here. I'm not sure what the cost differences would be in building a separate facility vs. building a bridge to serve a single facility.

there is a rest area on I-17 which is like this, except it has a diamond interchange, not a trumpet.  it is located on the west side of the road, so northbound traffic has to cross under the freeway.

not sure why they built it that way.

The Cheesequake service area on the Garden State Parkway is a median-located plaza accessible from both sides, but it has the added wrinkle of being located in the quad-carriageway portion. On the south side the ramps to and from the outer carriageway pass under the freeway. Access to and from the southbound carriageways is a little interesting–the inner carriageway has a direct ramp into the service area, while the outer carriageway has a left-side exit that goes down between the carriageways and then requires a left turn onto a two-way connection that also serves as the southbound exit back to the Parkway. I believe all northbound traffic leaving the plaza enters the inner carriageway because the carriageways merge back together a short distance to the north.

What makes it a bit more complex is that there is also commuter parking at that service area and it's accessed via a local street, such that commuters parking to take the bus need not pay a toll. It's been several years since I've stopped there and so I don't recall for certain, but a look at the satellite view seems to indicate that someone accessing the commuter parking from the local street could proceed to enter the Parkway through the service area and vice-versa. (I have never had any reason to want to do that and so the idea of it never occurred to me.)
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

akotchi

Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 31, 2012, 08:27:51 AM
The Molly Pitcher Service Area on the NJ Turnpike Southbound between Exits 8A & 8 at one point served traffic from both directions - ramps on the northbound side were located on the right side of the roadway, crossing over to the service plaza.



The NB ramps provide access to State Police barracks that (I assume) are adjacent to the Service Area.  Not sure if they ever served service area traffic from that side.  Joyce Kilmer Service Area is a few miles further north on the northbound side.
Opinions here attributed to me are mine alone and do not reflect those of my employer or the agencies for which I am contracted to do work.

jeffandnicole

@1995hoo & akotchi...I could've sworn one could access the service area from the NB side at one time, but a 20 minute Google Search came up empty.  Looking at the aerial views, one can see the original ramps to/from the Northbound roadway curved towards the service plaza (as well as a local roadway), not the police barracks.  It is also the only authorized-use only overpass over the turnpike that had looping ramps merging into the mainline highway, not the 90 degree turns or diamond-style ramps to/from the mainline most other authorized-use only overpasses have. (Well, the authorized-use only overpass just below interchange 7 had loop ramps too, but that was due to the overpass's original purpose, servicing the original Int 7 toll plaza)

For the general thread, especially in relation to the flyover ramps: On the NJ Turnpike in the dual-dual section, the turnpike utilizes flyover ramps to get to/from the service plazas.  In fact, 3 of the service plazas in the Interchange 6 - 9 construction zone will have a very long ramp systems nearing a half-mile in length to get traffic to/from the highway, including transversing under local roads before they finally connect with the Turnpike, including flyover ramps to connect with the inner drives.

Thus, if they could do that, there must be a reason besides cost why they wouldn't build ramps to get to/from a service plaza on the opposite direction of travel. 

Mr. Matté

I think I remember reading that the NB Molly Pitcher ramps were used for buses only. I guess that plaza was meant as a transfer station.

And with regards to why the NJ Tpke. plazas aren't always paired, there's some trapezoidal ROW on the unbuilt side that indicates that a plaza may have been planned. For (or four) example(s):

https://maps.google.com/?ll=39.884977,-75.001431&spn=0.008545,0.021136&t=h&z=16
https://maps.google.com/?ll=39.981494,-74.887276&spn=0.008533,0.021136&t=h&z=16
https://maps.google.com/?ll=40.071356,-74.758916&spn=0.008522,0.021136&t=h&z=16 (two unbuilt plazas)
https://maps.google.com/?ll=40.320046,-74.485545&spn=0.016982,0.042272&t=h&z=15

Alps

Quote from: Mr. Matté on July 31, 2012, 02:55:02 PM
I think I remember reading that the NB Molly Pitcher ramps were used for buses only. I guess that plaza was meant as a transfer station.

And with regards to why the NJ Tpke. plazas aren't always paired, there's some trapezoidal ROW on the unbuilt side that indicates that a plaza may have been planned. For (or four) example(s):

https://maps.google.com/?ll=39.884977,-75.001431&spn=0.008545,0.021136&t=h&z=16
https://maps.google.com/?ll=39.981494,-74.887276&spn=0.008533,0.021136&t=h&z=16
https://maps.google.com/?ll=40.071356,-74.758916&spn=0.008522,0.021136&t=h&z=16 (two unbuilt plazas)
https://maps.google.com/?ll=40.320046,-74.485545&spn=0.016982,0.042272&t=h&z=15
I once saw a list of all of the Turnpike service plazas. Those that had ever been built were named - NB at 13A and either direction on I-78. The others were just gaps in the numbering, pretty much, but absolutely accounted for. Unfortunately I don't remember where I saw the list - it was deep in an internal document.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 31, 2012, 01:08:54 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 31, 2012, 12:26:29 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 30, 2012, 05:58:51 PM
The Sideling Hill plaza on the Pennsylvania Turnpike is one facility for both directions of travel, served by a trumpet interchange. There's no way for motorists to make a U-turn here. I'm not sure what the cost differences would be in building a separate facility vs. building a bridge to serve a single facility.

there is a rest area on I-17 which is like this, except it has a diamond interchange, not a trumpet.  it is located on the west side of the road, so northbound traffic has to cross under the freeway.

not sure why they built it that way.

The Cheesequake service area on the Garden State Parkway is a median-located plaza accessible from both sides, but it has the added wrinkle of being located in the quad-carriageway portion. On the south side the ramps to and from the outer carriageway pass under the freeway. Access to and from the southbound carriageways is a little interesting–the inner carriageway has a direct ramp into the service area, while the outer carriageway has a left-side exit that goes down between the carriageways and then requires a left turn onto a two-way connection that also serves as the southbound exit back to the Parkway. I believe all northbound traffic leaving the plaza enters the inner carriageway because the carriageways merge back together a short distance to the north.

What makes it a bit more complex is that there is also commuter parking at that service area and it's accessed via a local street, such that commuters parking to take the bus need not pay a toll. It's been several years since I've stopped there and so I don't recall for certain, but a look at the satellite view seems to indicate that someone accessing the commuter parking from the local street could proceed to enter the Parkway through the service area and vice-versa. (I have never had any reason to want to do that and so the idea of it never occurred to me.)
You can absolutely do that. Heading southbound, take US 9 instead of the Parkway. Stay on 35 and take the next exit after US 9 leaves. Head west, turn in, and get back on the Parkway. Done that twice in the last month.

Ned Weasel

#19
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 31, 2012, 12:08:24 PM
The Kansas Turnpike is a ticket system turnpike that uses median service plazas. Originally there was no way of crossing over at them; with the reconstruction you now could, theoretically. However I believe the ticket notes the direction of travel so if you have an "impossible" itinerary they just ring it up as full fare, as if you got on at Oklahoma and got off at Kansas City.

I almost never look at my tickets when I use the Kansas Turnpike, but it wouldn't make sense for them to be direction-specific.  With the exceptions of Interchanges 182/183, 197, and 212, all of the ticket booths are in advance of ramps that serve both directions of the Turnpike.  That is, most use the classic trumpet configuration common to ticket-toll roads originally built in or around the 50s.  Unless all the interchanges were reconfigured, there would be no way to control direction of travel.

Frankly, I don't see much an incentive to prevent U-turns at service plazas, either.  Even if you enter at Interchange 19, go all the way to the Lawrence Service Area (between Exits 204 and 212), and turn around and get off at Exit 33, you haven't made a useful trip of greater than 14 miles, for most intents and purposes.  Also, I know someone who worked at one of the service plazas, and he told me that when someone enters and exits at the same interchange, which is only legal* if that person turns around at a service plaza, then that person is charged for time instead of distance.  I can't remember if he got a discount for working there.

*It is physically possible to make a U-turn at breaks in the barrier.

Edit:  Oh, also, I don't think there's anything physical or regulatory that would prevent someone from turning around at Cattle Pens.

Another edit (if anyone's interested): It's also possible (physically and legally) to turn around at Exits 33, 39, 57, and 92 without going through the toll plaza.
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hbelkins

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 31, 2012, 12:08:24 PM
You can't have a thread like this without mention of the Wellston McDonalds (which is sadly now gone). The WB Turner Turnpike onramp from Wellston, OK begins at OK-66, passes through a coin-op toll gate, and then actually lets out into what was the service plaza parking lot. There is/was a small parking lot off the ramp upstream of the gate so employees could park without having to go through the toll gate (presumably from there the only way out would be onto the westbound turnpike, with no exits until Oklahoma City.)

What happened to it? That was where the group photo from the OKC meet was taken.


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NJRoadfan

Quote from: Steve on July 31, 2012, 08:32:37 PM
You can absolutely do that. Heading southbound, take US 9 instead of the Parkway. Stay on 35 and take the next exit after US 9 leaves. Head west, turn in, and get back on the Parkway. Done that twice in the last month.

SSSHHHHH... You are giving secrets away.  :)

The NJ Turnpike service areas are busy enough that it merits dedicated facilities in each direction. As for the Cheesequake Service Area on the GSP, that southbound ramp setup was installed about 10 years ago. It used to be you could only access it southbound from the express lanes. Instead of building new bridges, they used the existing local lane southbound onramp for two way traffic.

agentsteel53

Quote from: NJRoadfan on July 31, 2012, 11:34:17 PMCheesequake

from Wikipedia:
QuoteThe name Cheesequake was derived from the Lenape Native American word Cheseh-oh-ke, meaning "upland" or "upland village".

well, I'm disappointed by that etymology.  the modern name implied something equally as fun as - or perhaps even more fun than - the Boston molasses disaster.
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One of the service areas on the Maine Turnpike required getting off and getting back on since it's only accessible from local streets near the northern end of I-295.  This is only possible because they dropped the ticket system years ago in favor of a barrier system.
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1995hoo

Quote from: deanej on August 01, 2012, 09:28:06 AM
One of the service areas on the Maine Turnpike required getting off and getting back on since it's only accessible from local streets near the northern end of I-295.  This is only possible because they dropped the ticket system years ago in favor of a barrier system.

Yeah, we had a discussion about that service area, and the related toll setup, last year. Apparently the nearby barrier tolls necessitated a voucher system (done electronically for E-ZPass users) so they could use the service area without paying another toll. I commented on this and was told I was wrong, but nobody rebutted the materials I linked to show where I got that information (the last time I went past Portland on that road was 1989 going to and from PEI, and we didn't stop at that service area because we had just made an extended stop at LL Bean).
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