Apparently some controversy has developed over a proposal to raise tolls on the privately-owned toll bridge connecting Oldtown, MD, to Green Spring, WV. Local residents are worried over whether the increased tolls would go to repair the bridge. The bridge is rather important to the people nearby, as the nearest river crossings are at Cumberland, 15 miles west, and at Paw Paw, 12 miles east.
Article: http://www.times-news.com/archivesearch/local_story_334234600.html
$66K seems like a drop in the bucket to a state government. However, you have to be careful because once you take stuff into the state system, people want it upgraded.
Quote from: SP Cook on December 08, 2009, 07:24:13 AM
$66K seems like a drop in the bucket to a state government. However, you have to be careful because once you take stuff into the state system, people want it upgraded.
This sounds similar to the situation involving the privately-owned toll bridge at Nolan, WV. The owner closed it because he didn't have time to continue to run it and couldn't afford to pay someone to take tolls, IIRC, plus the new US 52/119 crossings into Kentucky had taken a lot of traffic off of it, and the state of West Virginia wouldn't take ownership of the structure because of its condition. Is this an accurate summary of the situation?
Last time I was up that way it appeared that the bridge was not barricaded on the WV side.
Yes. At one time that bridge served a purpose for people in that community, and it allowed the through traffic to bypass the street of Williamson. Now with Corridor G finished it really serves no purpose, as you can cross for free a mile away, and the new road bypasses the town anyway.
While this is the only toll bridge I know of, when I was with the DOH, we were asked to take a lot of little private bridges into the system. We had a very detailed process, because we did not want to lump on future liability of upkeep.
Tell you a story, which I call "Aunt of the Year."
Little up a hollow place in Lincoln County, five or six houses. Private dirt road, including a bridge over a creek. Homemade, no big deal. Nobody goes up the hollow but the people that live there, no reason to. For decades the kids walk the couple of hundred years to the main road to catch the school bus.
Then one of the residents has a handicapped child. Handicapped children have to be picked up at the door by the special bus. But buses cannot cross private bridges (the bridge in question was not a long as said bus). So we have to go through this whole process to take the road and bridge into the state system. And the actual owner wants $50K for the bridge, which you could replicate for maybe $5K. Then the engineers tell us we have to spend $40K to upgrade the bridge and then everytime it snows the b***h is the first one to call wanting the snow cleared.
She was the aunt of the hanidcapped child.
I hope she enjoyed using a 6 year old crippled child to get a few $$.
Quote from: SP Cook on December 09, 2009, 06:40:59 AM
Little up a hollow place in Lincoln County, five or six houses. Private dirt road, including a bridge over a creek. Homemade, no big deal. Nobody goes up the hollow but the people that live there, no reason to. For decades the kids walk the couple of hundred years to the main road to catch the school bus.
Lincoln County? Oh joy. Probably a distant relative of mine... :angry:
Washington Post: Truck driver rescued from Potomac after tractor trailer topples off wooden bridge (http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/truck-driver-rescued-from-potomac-after-tractor-trailer-topples-off-wooden-bridge/2013/03/21/b03268a8-923b-11e2-9173-7f87cda73b49_story.html)
QuoteA truck driver was pulled from the Potomac River after his tractor trailer toppled off a wooden bridge in Oldtown.
QuoteAuthorities say the truck loaded with railroad ties plunged into the river just before 9 a.m. Wednesday.
Thread bumped to ask whether any of you have driven over the Oldtown toll bridge and, if so, whether it's worth going out of one's way to drive over it. We're heading up to Bedford, PA, later this month and I'm bored with the Interstate route, have taken US-522 through the West Virginia Panhandle before, and went around through Romney last time, so the Oldtown toll bridge caught my eye as a possible new route that's certainly unique (provided, of course, there isn't a lot of rain in the week prior to the trip).
Google Maps says it adds about 50 miles and one hour to the trip.
I know the other alternative in that area is to go via Paw Paw and see the C&O Canal's tunnel. I seem to recall visiting there 25 years ago on a Boy Scout trip as part of a never-completed effort to hike the entire C&O in stages, hence why I thought of the bridge this time.
I've seen it, but never crossed it (it was closed at the time I saw it by the State Highway Administration for reasons of safety).
Peter Samuel discussed it not so long ago (with pictures):
Oldtown Bridge MD-WV facing major regulatory problems for toll hike (http://www.tollroadsnews.com/node/5879)
Oldtown Historic Toll Bridge MD-WV looking to get state OK to triple tolls 50c to $1.50 after 35 years (http://www.tollroadsnews.com/node/6315)
*looks at Google street view*
How the hell do they justify charging a toll for that? They should pay ME to cross it. (Though I feel that way about roads in general.)
Quote from: Steve on July 02, 2013, 06:04:54 PM
*looks at Google street view*
How the hell do they justify charging a toll for that? They should pay ME to cross it. (Though I feel that way about roads in general.)
Because the U.S. Congress, in its infinite wisdom, apparently granted the person or persons that built the original bridge some sort of a franchise to run a toll bridge at this location. Never mind that the entire Potomac River, up to the high-water mark on the West Virginia side, is Maryland territory.
We drove over the Oldtown toll bridge this past Friday on our way to Pennsylvania for the weekend. I'll have video and pictures when we get home Monday and I can download. Interesting and unique experience (although I think there's a similar non-tolled bridge near Front Royal, VA, that looks like a ford on Google's satellite view due to high water). Some of the boards forming the road surface are rather loose and stick up at odd angles. The toll-taker has a metal cup on a long pole he extends out a window to your car.
I took a mega back route through West Virginia to get there because we went through Romney last time we were up here. I took US-522 northwest to VA-127, which in turn becomes WV-127 and then WV-29; turned off onto CR-3 to CR-1 to the bridge. Route 3, in particular, felt like someone laid down a road wherever there was a path for pavement.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 28, 2013, 08:38:25 AM
We drove over the Oldtown toll bridge this past Friday on our way to Pennsylvania for the weekend. I'll have video and pictures when we get home Monday and I can download. Interesting and unique experience (although I think there's a similar non-tolled bridge near Front Royal, VA, that looks like a ford on Google's satellite view due to high water). Some of the boards forming the road surface are rather loose and stick up at odd angles. The toll-taker has a metal cup on a long pole he extends out a window to your car.
Makes me wonder what they would do if you simply drove off without paying. Dingman's Ferry has the people right there in the road pretty much.
Quote from: Steve on July 28, 2013, 10:39:44 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 28, 2013, 08:38:25 AM
We drove over the Oldtown toll bridge this past Friday on our way to Pennsylvania for the weekend. I'll have video and pictures when we get home Monday and I can download. Interesting and unique experience (although I think there's a similar non-tolled bridge near Front Royal, VA, that looks like a ford on Google's satellite view due to high water). Some of the boards forming the road surface are rather loose and stick up at odd angles. The toll-taker has a metal cup on a long pole he extends out a window to your car.
Makes me wonder what they would do if you simply drove off without paying. Dingman's Ferry has the people right there in the road pretty much.
They have gates. Not nearly as potentially damaging as the gates on the Dulles Greenway (which are heavy and will do damage to a vehicle that tries to pass one in the down position, but I suspect that potential toll violators don't know that. $1.50 one-way.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 28, 2013, 08:38:25 AM
We drove over the Oldtown toll bridge this past Friday on our way to Pennsylvania for the weekend. I'll have video and pictures when we get home Monday and I can download. Interesting and unique experience (although I think there's a similar non-tolled bridge near Front Royal, VA, that looks like a ford on Google's satellite view due to high water). Some of the boards forming the road surface are rather loose and stick up at odd angles. The toll-taker has a metal cup on a long pole he extends out a window to your car.
I took a mega back route through West Virginia to get there because we went through Romney last time we were up here. I took US-522 northwest to VA-127, which in turn becomes WV-127 and then WV-29; turned off onto CR-3 to CR-1 to the bridge. Route 3, in particular, felt like someone laid down a road wherever there was a path for pavement.
Great minds think alike. I combined a trip out to the (current) end of the eastern part of Corridor H at W.Va. 93 near Greenland, W.Va. (the connector road has a
steep grade) with a trip across the Oldtown toll bridge (yes, I also took a few pictures).
Quote from: Steve on July 28, 2013, 10:39:44 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 28, 2013, 08:38:25 AM
We drove over the Oldtown toll bridge this past Friday on our way to Pennsylvania for the weekend. I'll have video and pictures when we get home Monday and I can download. Interesting and unique experience (although I think there's a similar non-tolled bridge near Front Royal, VA, that looks like a ford on Google's satellite view due to high water). Some of the boards forming the road surface are rather loose and stick up at odd angles. The toll-taker has a metal cup on a long pole he extends out a window to your car.
Makes me wonder what they would do if you simply drove off without paying. Dingman's Ferry has the people right there in the road pretty much.
On White's Ferry (the other privately-owned toll crossing of the Potomac River), the tolls are collected as the ferry crosses the river by the operator of the ferry.
Maybe they don't let a patron without funds leave the ferry?
Dingman's Ferry has been a bridge since 1836.
Wikipedia says: "Under the terms of its charter, churchgoers, schoolchildren, and funeral processions were given free passage, a condition that is still in effect today." So just claim you're going to church, I guess.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 29, 2013, 01:27:28 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 28, 2013, 08:38:25 AM
We drove over the Oldtown toll bridge this past Friday on our way to Pennsylvania for the weekend. I'll have video and pictures when we get home Monday and I can download. Interesting and unique experience (although I think there's a similar non-tolled bridge near Front Royal, VA, that looks like a ford on Google's satellite view due to high water). Some of the boards forming the road surface are rather loose and stick up at odd angles. The toll-taker has a metal cup on a long pole he extends out a window to your car.
I took a mega back route through West Virginia to get there because we went through Romney last time we were up here. I took US-522 northwest to VA-127, which in turn becomes WV-127 and then WV-29; turned off onto CR-3 to CR-1 to the bridge. Route 3, in particular, felt like someone laid down a road wherever there was a path for pavement.
Great minds think alike. I combined a trip out to the (current) end of the eastern part of Corridor H at W.Va. 93 near Greenland, W.Va. (the connector road has a steep grade) with a trip across the Oldtown toll bridge (yes, I also took a few pictures).
That's funny, as I've been considering the idea of heading home later today via Corridor H, especially if we decide to go out to Fallingwater after checking out here.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 29, 2013, 08:02:50 AM
That's funny, as I've been considering the idea of heading home later today via Corridor H, especially if we decide to go out to Fallingwater after checking out here.
The views from Corridor H are pretty spectacular on a nice day. As are many of the massive cuts that had to be made through the ridges.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 29, 2013, 10:43:12 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 29, 2013, 08:02:50 AM
That's funny, as I've been considering the idea of heading home later today via Corridor H, especially if we decide to go out to Fallingwater after checking out here.
The views from Corridor H are pretty spectacular on a nice day. As are many of the massive cuts that had to be made through the ridges.
Yeah, we used part of it on a rainy day last October and it was a nice drive even then. We're at Fallingwater now waiting for the tour and it couldn't be a nicer day, so I may well take Corridor H. Much nicer route than I-70.
BTW.....something that shocked me about the Oldtown toll bridge is that the toll booth had a sign up saying they take credit cards!
Pictures to come, probably tomorrow or later in the week since there are some 500+ from the whole weekend, and that's not counting the dashcam videos.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 29, 2013, 10:43:12 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 29, 2013, 08:02:50 AM
That's funny, as I've been considering the idea of heading home later today via Corridor H, especially if we decide to go out to Fallingwater after checking out here.
The views from Corridor H are pretty spectacular on a nice day. As are many of the ridges that WV chose to destroy.
FTFY
Quote from: Steve on July 29, 2013, 07:49:48 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 29, 2013, 10:43:12 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 29, 2013, 08:02:50 AM
That's funny, as I've been considering the idea of heading home later today via Corridor H, especially if we decide to go out to Fallingwater after checking out here.
The views from Corridor H are pretty spectacular on a nice day. As are many of the ridges that WV chose to destroy.
FTFY
Would you have preferred that they not blow the entire ridge away, but tunnel instead?
Or not build Corridor H at all?
FWIW, Maryland did consider bored tunnels through Sideling Hill for I-68, but selected the massive cut that's there today as a cheaper alternative.
QuoteWould you have preferred that they not blow the entire ridge away, but tunnel instead?
It's possible he's also referring to the strip-mining of other ridges or the implemetation of wind turbines on many of the ridges in eastern WV.
QuoteOr not build Corridor H at all?
From a traffic standpoint, Corridor H was (and still is) completely unnecessary. If there's any road in that area of WV that needed improvement due to traffic, it'd be US 50...a point you even alluded to in another thread.
Pictures and video of the Oldtown bridge and the approach from the West Virginia side. In the video, you'll see I come to a stop right before going onto the bridge even though it's clear; that was simply to allow Ms1995hoo to get a better picture. She also took some pictures of the river, but those didn't come out as well due to reflections in the glass.
I had wondered from Google Street View images how well you could see whether the way is clear when you're driving north. No worries–from the stop sign you can see the bridge quite well. Note also that this picture is from the passenger seat–from the driver's seat the view is clearer.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi31.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc378%2F1995hoo%2FRoad%2520sign%2520pictures%2FOldtown_1_zps86c44cf7.jpg&hash=f16a5a449754566c00eacce995197fb86abc2d85)
Entering the bridge itself:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi31.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc378%2F1995hoo%2FRoad%2520sign%2520pictures%2FOldtown_2_zps9a111350.jpg&hash=ab6db2c73e079fed4684d722ba78246d18f10b27)
I found it weird how, about three-quarters of the way across, the surface abruptly changes. It feels like they added boards to part of bridge, maybe to smooth out the ride, but didn't do so at the northern end.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi31.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc378%2F1995hoo%2FRoad%2520sign%2520pictures%2FOldtown_3_zpse1b380d9.jpg&hash=0fd48d9dc42c2d92e12b7bfd2e9e3ec5b31c0a3b)
Privately-owned bridge, privately-erected signs. You can't tell in this photo (I remark on it in the video), but the second sign (white sign in the background) is erroneous–it says "Toll Bridge Ahead" when in fact you've already crossed the bridge. It should say "Toll Booth Ahead."
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi31.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc378%2F1995hoo%2FRoad%2520sign%2520pictures%2FOldtown_4_zpsd9e639f9.jpg&hash=77c3b36a137bb0e8fc80891f8d2bd670e1546f96)
They take Discover, MasterCard, and VISA!
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi31.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc378%2F1995hoo%2FRoad%2520sign%2520pictures%2FOldtown_5_zpsd89f1b6a.jpg&hash=e28f01ca1f32327f6288973e762b83d44b4c9410)
My wife loved this:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi31.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc378%2F1995hoo%2FRoad%2520sign%2520pictures%2FOldtown_6_zps10d79980.jpg&hash=edb13e0ce8bd1243e0a55e8fe2d1ac019afe8315)
Click to play video. It's a little grainy; Photobucket resized it. This is a raw upload; later this week I might get around to editing it and re-sizing and hopefully that would clean up some of the graininess.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi31.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc378%2F1995hoo%2FRoad%2520sign%2520pictures%2Fth_Oldtown_video_zpsa0f8e3a6.jpg&hash=54b0924b67052b597b0762959889da8cacb2ae4e) (http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c378/1995hoo/Road%20sign%20pictures/Oldtown_video_zpsa0f8e3a6.mp4)
Quote from: froggie on July 30, 2013, 06:29:27 AM
QuoteWould you have preferred that they not blow the entire ridge away, but tunnel instead?
It's possible he's also referring to the strip-mining of other ridges or the implemetation of wind turbines on many of the ridges in eastern WV.
That could be. I respect your opinion (and his opinion) either way.
Quote from: froggie on July 30, 2013, 06:29:27 AM
QuoteOr not build Corridor H at all?
From a traffic standpoint, Corridor H was (and still is) completely unnecessary. If there's any road in that area of WV that needed improvement due to traffic, it'd be US 50...a point you even alluded to in another thread.
I agree with you. But consider that one of its purposes
is to
induce demand, which will hopefully stimulate economic activity in a part of the United States that could use same.
As for upgrading U.S. 50 across the Potomac Highlands (Grant, Mineral, and Hampshire Counties, W.Va.), I suppose it could be done (it's been four lane divided in Virginia for as long as I can remember, though I believe that is a different alignment from the original U.S. 50 between Winchester and the W.Va. border), and such improvements would probably benefit Romney.
But to upgrade 50 to something like Corridor H would probably require an entirely new highway on a new alignment. Not sure it would be worthwhile to try and build a four lane expressway-type road along existing U.S. 50. Clearly the existing U.S. 50 right-of-way does not have room for that.
What if Corridor H had been planned as an extension of Corridor D (US 50 coming east from Cincinnati) instead of the route it's currently on?
(And I would advocate Ohio transferring US 50 to Corridor D and renumbering existing US 50 as an Ohio state route.)
QuoteI agree with you. But consider that one of its purposes is to induce demand, which will hopefully stimulate economic activity in a part of the United States that could use same.
It'd take *A LOT* of demand inducement in order to reach a traffic level that would justify 4 lanes. I just don't see it happening.
QuoteAs for upgrading U.S. 50 across the Potomac Highlands (Grant, Mineral, and Hampshire Counties, W.Va.), I suppose it could be done (it's been four lane divided in Virginia for as long as I can remember, though I believe that is a different alignment from the original U.S. 50 between Winchester and the W.Va. border), and such improvements would probably benefit Romney.
But to upgrade 50 to something like Corridor H would probably require an entirely new highway on a new alignment. Not sure it would be worthwhile to try and build a four lane expressway-type road along existing U.S. 50. Clearly the existing U.S. 50 right-of-way does not have room for that.
Considering that the completed portions of Corridor H are largely themselves on new alignment, rather than an upgrade of previously-existing WV 55, the situation would not have been much different on US 50. A US 50 corridor alignment vice WV 55 would be much the same as what they're doing now: a mostly new-alignment 4-lane limited access corridor.
QuoteWhat if Corridor H had been planned as an extension of Corridor D (US 50 coming east from Cincinnati) instead of the route it's currently on?
(And I would advocate Ohio transferring US 50 to Corridor D and renumbering existing US 50 as an Ohio state route.)
Probably would've gotten noticably more traffic than the current Corridor H routing, which would further help justify the expense. And moving US 50 to the OH 32 corridor should happen anyway, IMO.
It looks like the Oldtown Toll Bridge has been basically destroyed by recent flooding. Take a look at this picture: https://twitter.com/demkeJN/status/477649908858507264
It's been damaged by flooding in the past and repaired (the 1996 flood comes to mind), though I'm not sure if the damage from previous floods was anywhere near that bad.
Quote from: Bitmapped on June 14, 2014, 12:03:49 AM
It looks like the Oldtown Toll Bridge has been basically destroyed by recent flooding. Take a look at this picture: https://twitter.com/demkeJN/status/477649908858507264
Impressive! I think it's the debris in the river, not the water, that does most of the damage.
I read someplace (might have been on TOLLROADSNews when Peter Samuel ran it) that the design of the bridge is such that the deck is all wood and fairly easy and inexpensive to repair, but if the piers in the bed of the Potomac River are damaged, then it is much more expensive and complex to fix. Either way, I understand that a bridge inspector from the State Highway Administration has to come out and check the work once repairs are complete before they can open to traffic again.
I don't remember hearing about any recent heavy rain or flooding in the upper Potomac watershed. When did this happen?
There's been very heavy rain leading to flash flooding in that area over the past few days (video showing damage in Cresaptown (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iENFgtc2xbk&list=PLqAfP8keQKpXlkzhCh9IYd8NJliy4He_j&index=1)).
Quote from: hbelkins on June 14, 2014, 07:06:02 PM
I don't remember hearing about any recent heavy rain or flooding in the upper Potomac watershed. When did this happen?
Same heavy rain event(s) in May that caused a fair amount of flooding in and around Washington, D.C. and Baltimore.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on June 15, 2014, 09:48:56 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 14, 2014, 07:06:02 PM
I don't remember hearing about any recent heavy rain or flooding in the upper Potomac watershed. When did this happen?
Same heavy rain event(s) in May that caused a fair amount of flooding in and around Washington, D.C. and Baltimore.
This was a different event that occurred last week.
Quote from: Bitmapped on June 16, 2014, 12:08:19 AM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on June 15, 2014, 09:48:56 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 14, 2014, 07:06:02 PM
I don't remember hearing about any recent heavy rain or flooding in the upper Potomac watershed. When did this happen?
Same heavy rain event(s) in May that caused a fair amount of flooding in and around Washington, D.C. and Baltimore.
This was a different event that occurred last week.
http://www.your4state.com/story/d/story/cresaptown-cleans-up-after-storm-floods/61109/9-NHXSvBp0KYV7h6_2Cv7Q
http://www.your4state.com/story/d/story/flooding-road-closures/15898/LN0Cv8CAjU6VcGEqHjl2ng
ixnay
Repairs to Oldtown Bridge could take months (http://www.times-news.com/latest_news/x1396895795/Repairs-to-Oldtown-Bridge-could-take-months)
WVGazette.com: Repaired western Md. toll bridge to W.Va. reopens (http://www.wvgazette.com/article/20140826/GZ01/140829465/1101)
QuoteOLDTOWN, Md. — A Potomac River toll bridge linking Allegany County to Green Spring, West Virginia, is back in business.
QuoteThe Cumberland Times-News reports that the reopening Tuesday of the Oldtown Bridge comes about 10 weeks after it was damaged by flooding.
Cumberland Times-News: Bridge back in business (http://www.times-news.com/news/article_f91689d0-2c8d-11e4-9947-001a4bcf887a.html)
QuoteOLDTOWN – There's good news for travelers who have relied on a low-water bridge over the Potomac River to get back and forth between eastern Allegany County and the Green Spring, W.Va., area. The Oldtown Bridge will be open Tuesday at 5 a.m., said Lori Roberts. Roberts owns the bridge through her company, Historical Oldtown Bridge Preservation, LLC.
QuoteAlthough Roberts had been concerned that the bridge would be out of commission for as long as several months, once work got started a few weeks ago, repairs seemed to move quickly.
QuoteThe bridge was washed out in June flooding, leaving commuters and other travelers feeling the pinch of paying for extra gas and losing time. The bridge is the only crossing of the river for 15 miles in either direction.
QuoteFlood damage to the bridge included portions of the decking being washed away and twisting of steel support beams, Dick DeVore, Allegany County director of emergency services, has said.