Best State to Live Permanently?

[Max Rockatansky]

Serious question: Besides desert, what does California have that New York doesn't?

A comfortable climate?

In "˜n Out?

More seriously though, CA also has real ocean coastline. That little stretch of Long Island ain't in the same universe.

What do you consider the difference?  I'd take Fire Island over quite a few stretches of California shore.

Excluding the massive swathes of urban beaches featured in the news; Point Loma, Moro Bay, San Simeon, all of Big Sur, Pebble Beach, Alisomar State Beach, Fort Ord Dunes, Marin Headlands, Point Reyes, much of the North Shore, the Lost Coast, and segments of Redwood National Park. 

[NWI_Irish96]

Back to the original question - there really isn't a universal answer because everybody has different preferences. I've enjoyed visiting the south but the climate is too warm and humid for me to consider living there. If you care about the cost of living either coast becomes difficult. If you care about living near your parents or other family members that becomes limiting as well.  I'm fine with Indiana for now, but once my parents are gone, I'm considering northern Arizona. Not humid, but elevated enough so as not to be scorching hot.

If you're looking at northern Arizona, consider looking down here as well.

I live at just under 4700 feet.  I look up at 9000 foot mountain peaks.  The temperature very seldom breaks 100 degrees Fahrenheit here.  We get occasional snow, but it doesn't last.

I moved out here from the Chicago suburbs, where I had lived for over thirty years, and I know the way to Three Floyds.  When I took my car to the dealer in Tucson the first time, he told me that I should change my oil twice as often as the manufacturer's recommendation because Arizona represented "severe service".  I told him "no, thanks."  Where I live it doesn't get any warmer than it does in Chicago, but it gets one hell of a lot colder in Chicago than it does here, and I have put over 170,000 miles on this car.

We have a decent cost of living, good weather, great scenery, interesting small towns, and we're not that far from Phoenix or (especially) Tucson.  Wish we had a beach, but Puerto Penasco is about a five hour drive.

How far from Tucson is not that far?  Getting my wife to move anywhere that's > 30 minutes from a Target is going to be a challenge.

[Max Rockatansky]

Back to the original question - there really isn't a universal answer because everybody has different preferences. I've enjoyed visiting the south but the climate is too warm and humid for me to consider living there. If you care about the cost of living either coast becomes difficult. If you care about living near your parents or other family members that becomes limiting as well.  I'm fine with Indiana for now, but once my parents are gone, I'm considering northern Arizona. Not humid, but elevated enough so as not to be scorching hot.

If you're looking at northern Arizona, consider looking down here as well.

I live at just under 4700 feet.  I look up at 9000 foot mountain peaks.  The temperature very seldom breaks 100 degrees Fahrenheit here.  We get occasional snow, but it doesn't last.

I moved out here from the Chicago suburbs, where I had lived for over thirty years, and I know the way to Three Floyds.  When I took my car to the dealer in Tucson the first time, he told me that I should change my oil twice as often as the manufacturer's recommendation because Arizona represented "severe service".  I told him "no, thanks."  Where I live it doesn't get any warmer than it does in Chicago, but it gets one hell of a lot colder in Chicago than it does here, and I have put over 170,000 miles on this car.

We have a decent cost of living, good weather, great scenery, interesting small towns, and we're not that far from Phoenix or (especially) Tucson.  Wish we had a beach, but Puerto Penasco is about a five hour drive.

How far from Tucson is not that far?  Getting my wife to move anywhere that's > 30 minutes from a Target is going to be a challenge.

Out west most view that on a different scale.  I viewed 3 hours as not far when I lived in Arizona. 

[texaskdog]

Back to the original question - there really isn't a universal answer because everybody has different preferences. I've enjoyed visiting the south but the climate is too warm and humid for me to consider living there. If you care about the cost of living either coast becomes difficult. If you care about living near your parents or other family members that becomes limiting as well.  I'm fine with Indiana for now, but once my parents are gone, I'm considering northern Arizona. Not humid, but elevated enough so as not to be scorching hot.

If you're looking at northern Arizona, consider looking down here as well.

I live at just under 4700 feet.  I look up at 9000 foot mountain peaks.  The temperature very seldom breaks 100 degrees Fahrenheit here.  We get occasional snow, but it doesn't last.

I moved out here from the Chicago suburbs, where I had lived for over thirty years, and I know the way to Three Floyds.  When I took my car to the dealer in Tucson the first time, he told me that I should change my oil twice as often as the manufacturer's recommendation because Arizona represented "severe service".  I told him "no, thanks."  Where I live it doesn't get any warmer than it does in Chicago, but it gets one hell of a lot colder in Chicago than it does here, and I have put over 170,000 miles on this car.

We have a decent cost of living, good weather, great scenery, interesting small towns, and we're not that far from Phoenix or (especially) Tucson.  Wish we had a beach, but Puerto Penasco is about a five hour drive.

How far from Tucson is not that far?  Getting my wife to move anywhere that's > 30 minutes from a Target is going to be a challenge.

Out west most view that on a different scale.  I viewed 3 hours as not far when I lived in Arizona. 

I love telling my Uber passengers something is "only 8 hours away".  To them that's the other end of the world.  In Texas it's nothing.  3 hours to Dallas or Houston is barely a blip on the radar to us.

[webny99]

How far from Tucson is not that far?  Getting my wife to move anywhere that's > 30 minutes from a Target is going to be a challenge.

Out west most view that on a different scale.  I viewed 3 hours as not far when I lived in Arizona. 

I love telling my Uber passengers something is "only 8 hours away".  To them that's the other end of the world.  In Texas it's nothing.  3 hours to Dallas or Houston is barely a blip on the radar to us.

3 hours does not sound like much to me at all. Easy day trip range.

I don't think it's so much an east vs. west phenomenon as it is just what you're used to, and to some extent, what type of area you live in. Distances generally sound much farther when you live in an urban or downtown area.

[kphoger]

For sure.

Growing up in northwestern Kansas, my piano teacher was 30 miles away in another county, my orthodontist was 50 miles away in another state, away games for football or track could be as much as 90 miles away, the nearest mall was upwards of 130 miles away.  Once or twice a year, our family would drive more than 200 miles to Denver and stay the night, just to be able to shop at places like a uniform store, a yarn store, a "big" liquor store, etc.  My senior year of high school, to visit a college, I drove those 200 miles to DIA by myself before dawn, in order to catch a flight to Chicago.

[kphoger]

What's nice is that Boise is pretty fragmented politically- those uber-conservative types who just want to buy big property at a lower price than they can in California/Arizona all tend to live out in Meridian/Eagle along the Idaho 55 corridor and west, while most of the rest of us live in Boise proper - Cole Rd is the typical dividing line, with the area between Cole and Cloverdale serving as a buffer zone of sorts.

I just avoid going west at all costs (Eagle Rd especially is very Phoenix-like) and let those folks do their thing over there, and because of that I love Boise - we more or less stay out of each other's bubbles. If I lived out there I'd probably hate Boise.

Out of curiosity, why does a neighborhood's predominant political affiliation make you avoid going there?  How do they "get in your bubble" or you get in theirs otherwise?

I guess I've just never even considered avoiding shopping at or traveling through a certain part of town based on how the residents there vote.

[webny99]

I guess I've just never even considered avoiding shopping at or traveling through a certain part of town based on how the residents there vote.

I don't think other cities, including my own, are as clearly defined.

Around here, most suburbs would be close enough to 50-50% that I could never assume that a given area or neighborhood strongly favors one party or the other. And it's certainly not something I'd be able to decipher just by getting gas or going to the grocery store.

[kphoger]

I just don't get it to begin with.  I lean pretty far to the right, but that doesn't mean I avoid towns or parts of towns that lean far to the left.

[doorknob60]

What's nice is that Boise is pretty fragmented politically- those uber-conservative types who just want to buy big property at a lower price than they can in California/Arizona all tend to live out in Meridian/Eagle along the Idaho 55 corridor and west, while most of the rest of us live in Boise proper - Cole Rd is the typical dividing line, with the area between Cole and Cloverdale serving as a buffer zone of sorts.

I just avoid going west at all costs (Eagle Rd especially is very Phoenix-like) and let those folks do their thing over there, and because of that I love Boise - we more or less stay out of each other's bubbles. If I lived out there I'd probably hate Boise.

Out of curiosity, why does a neighborhood's predominant political affiliation make you avoid going there?  How do they "get in your bubble" or you get in theirs otherwise?

I guess I've just never even considered avoiding shopping at or traveling through a certain part of town based on how the residents there vote.

My perspective may be different, but the reasons I avoid going out towards Meridian are that's it's just generic strip malls, generic suburban housing, and lots of traffic (Eagle Rd is worse than anything else in Boise proper). I used to live near all that, by Eagle/Overland, and while I didn't hate it, I far prefer my current place on the Boise Bench. I sometimes have reasons to go out that way, but it's not often (during the pandemic anyways, with my every 2 week D&D session at my friend's house in Meridian currently on hold). It's not so much for political reasons (though there is probably some correlation between republican leaning areas and generic suburbs with strip malls). Most of the time, it's not actively avoiding it, it's just I can find everything I need closer to home where it's more convenient (the farthest west I regularly go is the Boise Towne Square Mall; anything I can find in Meridian, I can probably find near there too).

I visit plenty of deep red (eg. Idaho Falls or Burns, OR), and deep blue (eg. Portland and Seattle) areas, and everything in between. I don't really chose my destinations based on politics. I do kind of appreciate "purple" areas like Boise and Salt Lake City though, they often are the best of both worlds, though it doesn't really matter much when you're just visiting (but it can be a good factor to choose where you live).

Looking past commute reasons (commuting from Nampa to Boise during normal work hours sucks), if I didn't live in Boise, I'd actually rather live in Nampa than Meridian, the city feels like it has more of a soul, while Meridian kinda feels "soulless" if that makes sense. Even though Nampa is probably a bit more republican than Meridian (showing it's not directly politics related, at least to me). I lived 4 years in Nampa, 2 in Meridian, and 2 (and counting) in Boise so I think I have a decent perspective on things.

[texaskdog]

I just don't get it to begin with.  I lean pretty far to the right, but that doesn't mean I avoid towns or parts of towns that lean far to the left.

I used to think that but being a conservative living in Austin, they mayor has defied the governors order and stores harass you about not wearing a mask.  I go 10 minutes to Buda, half wear, half don't, and no one hassles you.  We'll be moving to Hays County next year. 

[Konza]

How far from Tucson is not that far?  Getting my wife to move anywhere that's > 30 minutes from a Target is going to be a challenge.

Tucson is about a 75 minute drive, depending where in Tucson.  Tucson, due to the relative absence of freeways, can be slow to navigate.  Sierra Vista proudly hosts a Target, Walmart, Dillard's, Lowe's, Hope Depot, and Best Buy.

And there are towns down here that lean far right and far left.  Either one can lead to groupthink and intolerance, which can lead them to be inhospitable for those who don't at least lean the same way.

[vdeane]

I guess I've just never even considered avoiding shopping at or traveling through a certain part of town based on how the residents there vote.

I don't think other cities, including my own, are as clearly defined.

Around here, most suburbs would be close enough to 50-50% that I could never assume that a given area or neighborhood strongly favors one party or the other. And it's certainly not something I'd be able to decipher just by getting gas or going to the grocery store.

The Brighton Central School District was deep blue when I was in school, but of course that isn't the whole town, and things could have changed by now.

[corco]

What's nice is that Boise is pretty fragmented politically- those uber-conservative types who just want to buy big property at a lower price than they can in California/Arizona all tend to live out in Meridian/Eagle along the Idaho 55 corridor and west, while most of the rest of us live in Boise proper - Cole Rd is the typical dividing line, with the area between Cole and Cloverdale serving as a buffer zone of sorts.

I just avoid going west at all costs (Eagle Rd especially is very Phoenix-like) and let those folks do their thing over there, and because of that I love Boise - we more or less stay out of each other's bubbles. If I lived out there I'd probably hate Boise.

Out of curiosity, why does a neighborhood's predominant political affiliation make you avoid going there?  How do they "get in your bubble" or you get in theirs otherwise?

I guess I've just never even considered avoiding shopping at or traveling through a certain part of town based on how the residents there vote.

Sorry - I think "political party" got conflated with personality type - the folks that live in Eagle/Meridian tend these days to be the uber-conservative Californians I referenced above and I just don't like what they like. The traffic out there is worse, you're just hanging out in generic strip malls at huge chain restaurants with rich people in lifted pickups, and it's overall just not where I want to be. The people who live out there seem to like it out there, but it's not my scene I guess. And that's fine. One of the things I like about Greater Boise is there are options for everybody, and it's pretty easy to avoid things you don't like.

I'd agree with comments above that although Nampa is probably more Republican and classically conservative than even Eagle it's also catering to a very different demographic than Eagle/Meridian - and one I agree I'd rather live in.

[J3ebrules]

I just don't get it to begin with.  I lean pretty far to the right, but that doesn't mean I avoid towns or parts of towns that lean far to the left.

I wasn't going to comment at all on the political aspects at all, because this forum is my oasis from politics - but this needs to be said.

As a presumably white man (I'm assuming because the majority of this forum is male and conservatives tend to be predominantly white), you can go to left leaning towns without fear.
Not so much for many people of color or LGBT people. I'm obviously queer and my trans boyfriend and I have to legitimately fear for our safety in right-leaning parts of the country. So just keep in mind that's why it's different in reverse.

[kphoger]

I just don't get it to begin with.  I lean pretty far to the right, but that doesn't mean I avoid towns or parts of towns that lean far to the left.

I wasn't going to comment at all on the political aspects at all, because this forum is my oasis from politics - but this needs to be said.

As a presumably white man (I'm assuming because the majority of this forum is male and conservatives tend to be predominantly white), you can go to left leaning towns without fear.
Not so much for many people of color or LGBT people. I'm obviously queer and my trans boyfriend and I have to legitimately fear for our safety in right-leaning parts of the country. So just keep in mind that's why it's different in reverse.

And, as I was mowing the lawn yesterday evening, I realized exactly what you said.  I guess it didn't occur to me while posting because I didn't think any of that was true of corco.  But yes, I certainly do understand someone who is "flamboyant" (for lack of a better word) having a legitimate reason for avoiding deep red areas.  The same, these days perhaps, also goes for anyone who looks remotely like they're from the Middle East.

I wonder if the reverse is also true.  A few posts ago, texaskdog mentioned moving out of Austin.  He didn't specifically say that the political climate is the reason, but it's possible that's what he meant.  I can definitely imagine, for example, being harassed in the Boystown neighborhood of Chicago if I were wearing a MAGA hat or something like that.  And I have personally had black teenagers throw rocks at me in the Austin neighborhood of Chicago when I was simply walking down the sidewalk on a Sunday morning.

[Roadgeekteen]

I just don't get it to begin with.  I lean pretty far to the right, but that doesn't mean I avoid towns or parts of towns that lean far to the left.

I wasn't going to comment at all on the political aspects at all, because this forum is my oasis from politics - but this needs to be said.

As a presumably white man (I'm assuming because the majority of this forum is male and conservatives tend to be predominantly white), you can go to left leaning towns without fear.
Not so much for many people of color or LGBT people. I'm obviously queer and my trans boyfriend and I have to legitimately fear for our safety in right-leaning parts of the country. So just keep in mind that's why it's different in reverse.

And, as I was mowing the lawn yesterday evening, I realized exactly what you said.  I guess it didn't occur to me while posting because I didn't think any of that was true of corco.  But yes, I certainly do understand someone who is "flamboyant" (for lack of a better word) having a legitimate reason for avoiding deep red areas.  The same, these days perhaps, also goes for anyone who looks remotely like they're from the Middle East.

I wonder if the reverse is also true.  A few posts ago, texaskdog mentioned moving out of Austin.  He didn't specifically say that the political climate is the reason, but it's possible that's what he meant.  I can definitely imagine, for example, being harassed in the Boystown neighborhood of Chicago if I were wearing a MAGA hat or something like that.  And I have personally had black teenagers throw rocks at me in the Austin neighborhood of Chicago when I was simply walking down the sidewalk on a Sunday morning.

That's just a bad neighborhood in Chicago.

[webny99]

I guess I've just never even considered avoiding shopping at or traveling through a certain part of town based on how the residents there vote.

I don't think other cities, including my own, are as clearly defined.
Around here, most suburbs would be close enough to 50-50% that I could never assume that a given area or neighborhood strongly favors one party or the other. And it's certainly not something I'd be able to decipher just by getting gas or going to the grocery store.

The Brighton Central School District was deep blue when I was in school, but of course that isn't the whole town, and things could have changed by now.

Likely still the case, since Brighton is an inner-ring, old-money suburb with a sizable Jewish population. My guess would be that the parts of Brighton that aren't part of the school district are lighter blue.

Really the entire East Ave corridor from downtown to Pittsford and beyond is very blue. It's often thought that well-to-do suburbs tend to lean red, but that's certainly not the case with the older ones around Rochester like Pittsford and Brighton.

[hbelkins]

It would seem hard to make distinctions about local culture based on geographical borders (or borders placed on a map) but they're there. There isn't a whole lot of difference between Lee and Breathitt counties in Kentucky, except the county seat of Breathitt is bigger than the county seat of Lee, and the population and land mass areas are larger as well. But Lee is staunchly Republican and Breathitt is staunchly Democrat. Two adjoining counties, but the social and political cultures are vastly different. So you can't paint a broad geographical area with the same brush.

[kphoger]

What would everyone's criteria be for determining where to live permanently?

For me, I'd be looking primarily at climate, housing prices, and distance to relatives.

[corco]

What would everyone's criteria be for determining where to live permanently?

For me, I'd be looking primarily at climate, housing prices, and distance to relatives.

At this stage in my life I'm looking for some mix of career opportunities, cost of living relative to median salary, number of available women, and weather (prefer cold and on the dry end but flexible on that, Boise is warmer than my preferred climate).

I expect when I retire I'll be looking for a rural area with some character where I can get some amount of land inexpensively and is centrally located for roadtrips to live out a retirement in relative solitude but that is also in a colder, drier climate. Trinidad, Colorado and Chadron, Nebraska probably fit that bill best right now- but who knows what my tastes will be in 25+ years.

[texaskdog]

I just don't get it to begin with.  I lean pretty far to the right, but that doesn't mean I avoid towns or parts of towns that lean far to the left.

I wasn’t going to comment at all on the political aspects at all, because this forum is my oasis from politics - but this needs to be said.

As a presumably white man (I’m assuming because the majority of this forum is male and conservatives tend to be predominantly white), you can go to left leaning towns without fear.
Not so much for many people of color or LGBT people. I’m obviously queer and my trans boyfriend and I have to legitimately fear for our safety in right-leaning parts of the country. So just keep in mind that’s why it’s different in reverse.

And, as I was mowing the lawn yesterday evening, I realized exactly what you said.  I guess it didn't occur to me while posting because I didn't think any of that was true of corco.  But yes, I certainly do understand someone who is "flamboyant" (for lack of a better word) having a legitimate reason for avoiding deep red areas.  The same, these days perhaps, also goes for anyone who looks remotely like they're from the Middle East.

I wonder if the reverse is also true.  A few posts ago, texaskdog mentioned moving out of Austin.  He didn't specifically say that the political climate is the reason, but it's possible that's what he meant.  I can definitely imagine, for example, being harassed in the Boystown neighborhood of Chicago if I were wearing a MAGA hat or something like that.  And I have personally had black teenagers throw rocks at me in the Austin neighborhood of Chicago when I was simply walking down the sidewalk on a Sunday morning.

I'm conservative and I moved to Austin because I love the laid back atmosphere.  But "we the people" voted out every conservative and the city council does what they want.  The mayor has decided everyone must wear a mask and I have asthma and can't do that.  Thus we have to go to Hays County (only 10 minutes away) to eat and shop.  whatever your political persuasion it's not much fun living somewhere around people who think so differently.

On the other hand, gay people, interracial couples, pretty much anyone can be themselves without harassment which is one of the things I like about Austin.  So we'll be close to Austin just not in Austin.

[Roadgeekteen]

I just don't get it to begin with.  I lean pretty far to the right, but that doesn't mean I avoid towns or parts of towns that lean far to the left.

I wasn't going to comment at all on the political aspects at all, because this forum is my oasis from politics - but this needs to be said.

As a presumably white man (I'm assuming because the majority of this forum is male and conservatives tend to be predominantly white), you can go to left leaning towns without fear.
Not so much for many people of color or LGBT people. I'm obviously queer and my trans boyfriend and I have to legitimately fear for our safety in right-leaning parts of the country. So just keep in mind that's why it's different in reverse.

And, as I was mowing the lawn yesterday evening, I realized exactly what you said.  I guess it didn't occur to me while posting because I didn't think any of that was true of corco.  But yes, I certainly do understand someone who is "flamboyant" (for lack of a better word) having a legitimate reason for avoiding deep red areas.  The same, these days perhaps, also goes for anyone who looks remotely like they're from the Middle East.

I wonder if the reverse is also true.  A few posts ago, texaskdog mentioned moving out of Austin.  He didn't specifically say that the political climate is the reason, but it's possible that's what he meant.  I can definitely imagine, for example, being harassed in the Boystown neighborhood of Chicago if I were wearing a MAGA hat or something like that.  And I have personally had black teenagers throw rocks at me in the Austin neighborhood of Chicago when I was simply walking down the sidewalk on a Sunday morning.

I'm conservative and I moved to Austin because I love the laid back atmosphere.  But "we the people" voted out every conservative and the city council does what they want.  The mayor has decided everyone must wear a mask and I have asthma and can't do that.  Thus we have to go to Hays County (only 10 minutes away) to eat and shop.  whatever your political persuasion it's not much fun living somewhere around people who think so differently.

On the other hand, gay people, interracial couples, pretty much anyone can be themselves without harassment which is one of the things I like about Austin.  So we'll be close to Austin just not in Austin.

I think that in many places you can get a medical exemption from wearing a mask.

[J N Winkler]

After visiting 49 US states, Kansas (where I was born and raised) remains my personal sweet spot.  Yes, the summers are too humid, and the local political climate is in many respects uncongenial.  However, Midwest red is not the same as Southern red, northern (especially inland) states have severe winters, the "best coast" has a very high cost of living, and the intermountain West has a varying combination of water supply constraints/fire risk/temperature extremes that we don't really have to deal with here.

And locality does matter--judging just by what I have seen on the street, I would think it is a lot easier to be openly LGBTQ+ in Mobile and New Orleans than it is in the rest of Alabama and Louisiana respectively.

If I were permitted to live in the same general region as Kansas but not in Kansas itself, my preference (in descending order) would be Nebraska, Iowa, Missouri, and Oklahoma.

[MikieTimT]

I just don't get it to begin with.  I lean pretty far to the right, but that doesn't mean I avoid towns or parts of towns that lean far to the left.

I wasn't going to comment at all on the political aspects at all, because this forum is my oasis from politics - but this needs to be said.

As a presumably white man (I'm assuming because the majority of this forum is male and conservatives tend to be predominantly white), you can go to left leaning towns without fear.
Not so much for many people of color or LGBT people. I'm obviously queer and my trans boyfriend and I have to legitimately fear for our safety in right-leaning parts of the country. So just keep in mind that's why it's different in reverse.

And, as I was mowing the lawn yesterday evening, I realized exactly what you said.  I guess it didn't occur to me while posting because I didn't think any of that was true of corco.  But yes, I certainly do understand someone who is "flamboyant" (for lack of a better word) having a legitimate reason for avoiding deep red areas.  The same, these days perhaps, also goes for anyone who looks remotely like they're from the Middle East.

I wonder if the reverse is also true.  A few posts ago, texaskdog mentioned moving out of Austin.  He didn't specifically say that the political climate is the reason, but it's possible that's what he meant.  I can definitely imagine, for example, being harassed in the Boystown neighborhood of Chicago if I were wearing a MAGA hat or something like that.  And I have personally had black teenagers throw rocks at me in the Austin neighborhood of Chicago when I was simply walking down the sidewalk on a Sunday morning.

I'm conservative and I moved to Austin because I love the laid back atmosphere.  But "we the people" voted out every conservative and the city council does what they want.  The mayor has decided everyone must wear a mask and I have asthma and can't do that.  Thus we have to go to Hays County (only 10 minutes away) to eat and shop.  whatever your political persuasion it's not much fun living somewhere around people who think so differently.

On the other hand, gay people, interracial couples, pretty much anyone can be themselves without harassment which is one of the things I like about Austin.  So we'll be close to Austin just not in Austin.

We live just outside of Fayetteville, AR for the same reason.  Nice town, but can't relate to the majority of inhabitants since I'm actually from Arkansas and many in town are not.