Protests against Robert Moses statue on Long Island

[BamaZeus]

https://1010wins.radio.com/articles/protesters-want-robert-moses-statue-on-long-island-removed

I didn't know which forum would be the most appropriate for this story, so I just left it here.

[STLmapboy]

Looks like someone discovered the LOMEX.

[Ned Weasel]

https://1010wins.radio.com/articles/protesters-want-robert-moses-statue-on-long-island-removed

I didn't know which forum would be the most appropriate for this story, so I just left it here.

Well, there's an interesting can of worms to open!

[webny99]

I didn't know which forum would be the most appropriate for this story

I think you meant board, not forum?

Anyways, in before [purple text]Not this one[/purple text].

[kphoger]

Actually, this thread appears to be dying on its own due to lack of interest.

[roadman65]

Cause it is old news.  Many other people from the past have recently been protested especially many of our Founding Fathers and make headlines on social media as much as people post here on AARoads.

[hbelkins]

I think everyone seems to hate Robert Moses.

[Roadgeekteen]

I'm not sure if I like the man, I used to when I was a younger roadgeek.

[nexus73]

Robert Moses got things done.  Today's bureaucrats, not so much. 

Rick

[Roadgeekteen]

Robert Moses got things done.  Today's bureaucrats, not so much. 

Rick

But at what cost?

[Ketchup99]

He was a complex guy. On the one hand, he's responsible - singlehandedly - for the web of highways that traverses the Tri-State Area. On the other hand, that web of highways tore through innumerable neighborhoods and nicely complimented the redlining that still plagues American cities, especially NYC.

[ozarkman417]

He would be far from the only person whose projects displaced people in poor or black neighborhoods.. but few of them have statues.

[roadman65]

The problem is we do not know the man personally so its hard to say without research, but rumors carry today as fact to most people and the fact honor is no longer a thing with our country like it was.  Before you had things named after people to show respect like the person or not, now we live in a society that if a person does not think like he or she does, that person should be erased from our minds and leave our own cone of vision.

[SEWIGuy]

The problem is we do not know the man personally so its hard to say without research, but rumors carry today as fact to most people and the fact honor is no longer a thing with our country like it was.  Before you had things named after people to show respect like the person or not, now we live in a society that if a person does not think like he or she does, that person should be erased from our minds and leave our own cone of vision.

Oh come now.  Let's maybe take a look at history. 

It is clear that this "tear down this statue" thing has gotten out of hand no doubt.  But let's also remember that we were erecting statues to "honor" (your word) traitors who faught to keep the right to enslave other people?  So the idea that we are out of whack now with tearing down these things is true, but I would argue we were out of whack to erect some of these things in the first place.

Too many people act as if humanity has changed.  It hasn't.  It's as prone to wild exaggeration as it has always been.

[kphoger]

It is clear that this "tear down this statue" thing has gotten out of hand no doubt.  But let's also remember that we were erecting statues to "honor" (your word) traitors who faught to keep the right to enslave other people?  So the idea that we are out of whack now with tearing down these things is true, but I would argue we were out of whack to erect some of these things in the first place.

Too many people act as if humanity has changed.  It hasn't.  It's as prone to wild exaggeration as it has always been.

I have mixed feelings about the statue issue.  But we should at least acknowledge that there's more to a historical figure than just his position on slavery.  We've gotten to the point that, if a person was in favor of or owned slaves, then there must be nothing else about that person worth remembering and honoring.

Robert Moses, whatever dirt sullied his hands, was still an influential person in the history of the region.  Whether his statue should remain or be removed ought to be the result of analyzing all aspects of his influence, not just one aspect.

[SEWIGuy]

It is clear that this "tear down this statue" thing has gotten out of hand no doubt.  But let's also remember that we were erecting statues to "honor" (your word) traitors who faught to keep the right to enslave other people?  So the idea that we are out of whack now with tearing down these things is true, but I would argue we were out of whack to erect some of these things in the first place.

Too many people act as if humanity has changed.  It hasn't.  It's as prone to wild exaggeration as it has always been.

I have mixed feelings about the statue issue.  But we should at least acknowledge that there's more to a historical figure than just his position on slavery.  We've gotten to the point that, if a person was in favor of or owned slaves, then there must be nothing else about that person worth remembering and honoring.

Robert Moses, whatever dirt sullied his hands, was still an influential person in the history of the region.  Whether his statue should remain or be removed ought to be the result of analyzing all aspects of his influence, not just one aspect.

It's not just that someone is in favor or owned slaves.  It's that they were traitorous.  We erect monuments to honor them, when they really don't deserve such honor.

H.B. mentioned that he lives in Lee County Kentucky.  I just looked that up, and it was a county founded in 1870.  A county named after a traitorous general in a state that never seceeded.  I think that is much more out of place than tearing down a statue of Robert Moses.

[nexus73]

Robert Moses got things done.  Today's bureaucrats, not so much. 

Rick

But at what cost?

At a lesser cost than the current system. 

Rick

[Roadgeekteen]

Robert Moses got things done.  Today's bureaucrats, not so much. 

Rick

But at what cost?

At a lesser cost than the current system. 

Rick

I don't mean monetary cost.

[STLmapboy]

Robert Moses got things done.  Today's bureaucrats, not so much. 

Rick

But at what cost?

At a lesser cost than the current system. 

Rick

I don't mean monetary cost.

Those hoods in the Bronx would likely be in deep crap even without the Cross-Bronx. It's better to have a functioning network of expressways with some very crappy neighborhoods than no expressway network and still crappy neighborhoods. Lesser of the two evils, I suppose, which is why I regard Moses' brainchild system as a net positive for the NY area.

[vdeane]

It's not just that someone is in favor or owned slaves.  It's that they were traitorous.  We erect monuments to honor them, when they really don't deserve such honor.

Actually, there are statues being removed simply because a person owned slaves:
https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Churchill-Saying-goodbye-to-the-statue-of-Philip-15336389.php

[Roadgeekteen]

It's not just that someone is in favor or owned slaves.  It's that they were traitorous.  We erect monuments to honor them, when they really don't deserve such honor.

Actually, there are statues being removed simply because a person owned slaves:
https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Churchill-Saying-goodbye-to-the-statue-of-Philip-15336389.php

I mean, I might not disagree, but you can tear down half of mount Rushmore with that logic.

[Hwy 61 Revisited]

It's not just that someone is in favor or owned slaves.  It's that they were traitorous.  We erect monuments to honor them, when they really don't deserve such honor.

Actually, there are statues being removed simply because a person owned slaves:
https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Churchill-Saying-goodbye-to-the-statue-of-Philip-15336389.php

I mean, I might not disagree, but you can tear down half of mount Rushmore with that logic.

It was built on stolen Sioux Indian land, so...

[Roadgeekteen]

It's not just that someone is in favor or owned slaves.  It's that they were traitorous.  We erect monuments to honor them, when they really don't deserve such honor.

Actually, there are statues being removed simply because a person owned slaves:
https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Churchill-Saying-goodbye-to-the-statue-of-Philip-15336389.php

I mean, I might not disagree, but you can tear down half of mount Rushmore with that logic.

It was built on stolen Sioux Indian land, so...

I don't think that anyone supports tearing it down.

[ozarkman417]

It's not just that someone is in favor or owned slaves.  It's that they were traitorous.  We erect monuments to honor them, when they really don't deserve such honor.

Actually, there are statues being removed simply because a person owned slaves:
https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Churchill-Saying-goodbye-to-the-statue-of-Philip-15336389.php

I mean, I might not disagree, but you can tear down half of mount Rushmore with that logic.

It was built on stolen Sioux Indian land, so...

I don't think that anyone supports tearing it down.

Tearing it down would have a large negative impact on the local economy.

SM-G965U

[kphoger]

It's not just that someone is in favor or owned slaves.  It's that they were traitorous.  We erect monuments to honor them, when they really don't deserve such honor.

Actually, there are statues being removed simply because a person owned slaves:
https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Churchill-Saying-goodbye-to-the-statue-of-Philip-15336389.php

I mean, I might not disagree, but you can tear down half of mount Rushmore with that logic.

It was built on stolen Sioux Indian land, so...

I don't think that anyone supports tearing it down.

Shhhhhhhh.....  Let's not give them any ideas.