Why is the metric system associated with the '70s?

[Scott5114]

We tend to have multiple butters around the house–Country Crock margarine and/or Irish butter for spreading on bread, and then the sticks of butter, which are a nicety for me (who does the cooking), because measuring butter or margarine with a spoon is unpleasant. (It always sticks to the spoon and is nigh-impossible to get out in a timely manner without using a finger to scoop it out, which seems like poor form.) Given that, taking the wrapper off the butter upon purchase would be defeating the whole purpose of buying it in the first place–in that case, I'd just use the margarine.

I suppose one could have their cake and eat it too by scoring the tbsp marks into the corner of the butter before unwrapping it and putting it in the dish.

Not being a baking grandma, I don't have any confidence in my eyeball-measuring abilities, so I am a stickler for measuring, even for things I have cooked hundreds of times.

Also, kphoger, your kitchen would absolutely give me claustrophobia. I already feel cramped with my wife or one of the cats in the room, and my kitchen is at least twice the size of yours!

(Photo from the real estate listing on our house, before we'd had the chance to move in and dirty it up. Other than the appliances, none of the stuff shown is ours; the selling agent took it with them when we closed.)

[1995hoo]

We open the wrapper when we place the stick of butter on the dish, but we otherwise leave it in place so that the tablespoon marks are still visible. The one exception to this is if we are having people over (which has not happened, other than my mom, since prior to last March). In that case we use the nicer butter dish, rather than the white plastic one that stays in the refrigerator, and we remove the wrapper.

My mom gave me a butter-cutting device that is supposed to enable you to measure various amounts of butter and then you lift up the knife and it cuts off that amount. I've only tried it once or twice. She found it in a drawer earlier this year and didn't want it, so she gave it to us and I just haven't had much reason to try it yet. It looks similar to this thing:

[kphoger]

My mom gave me a butter-cutting device that is supposed to enable you to measure various amounts of butter and then you lift up the knife and it cuts off that amount. I've only tried it once or twice. She found it in a drawer earlier this year and didn't want it, so she gave it to us and I just haven't had much reason to try it yet. It looks similar to this thing:

Is that based on a normal stick of butter, which is to say the stick must be the standard size?  Because the Kerrygold Irish butter we buy is the same weight as four sticks of Kroger brand, but it isn't the same dimensions as four sticks of Kroger brand.  When we cut it into quarters, each stick is a little fatter and shorter than typical.

[kalvado]

My mom gave me a butter-cutting device that is supposed to enable you to measure various amounts of butter and then you lift up the knife and it cuts off that amount. I've only tried it once or twice. She found it in a drawer earlier this year and didn't want it, so she gave it to us and I just haven't had much reason to try it yet. It looks similar to this thing:

Is that based on a normal stick of butter, which is to say the stick must be the standard size?  Because the Kerrygold Irish butter we buy is the same weight as four sticks of Kroger brand, but it isn't the same dimensions as four sticks of Kroger brand.  When we cut it into quarters, each stick is a little fatter and shorter than typical.

And just because I cannot resist... You mentioned you use pretty different flavor of butter, right?
But using the groceries that the cookbook was actually written for will result in a predictably better result than using groceries it wasn't written for.  If the recipe says a quarter-cup of butter, then I should get the same result by using same stuff as author used - US standard butter.  The author probably didn't know or care how Irish butter is different, but he or she got consistently good results with US butter, so why should I mess with that?

[kphoger]

And just because I cannot resist... You mentioned you use pretty different flavor of butter, right?
But using the groceries that the cookbook was actually written for will result in a predictably better result than using groceries it wasn't written for.  If the recipe says a quarter-cup of butter, then I should get the same result by using same stuff as author used - US standard butter.  The author probably didn't know or care how Irish butter is different, but he or she got consistently good results with US butter, so why should I mess with that?

If I'm helping my wife with baking, I don't use the Irish butter, for exactly that reason.  For regular cooking, there's no real difference, but I've read the difference in fat content can mess with cookies, for example.  However, I asked her about it a few weeks ago, and she says she's used the Irish butter in cookies and cakes before and never had them turn out weird.  So maybe the difference is overrated.

[kalvado]

And just because I cannot resist... You mentioned you use pretty different flavor of butter, right?
But using the groceries that the cookbook was actually written for will result in a predictably better result than using groceries it wasn't written for.  If the recipe says a quarter-cup of butter, then I should get the same result by using same stuff as author used - US standard butter.  The author probably didn't know or care how Irish butter is different, but he or she got consistently good results with US butter, so why should I mess with that?

If I'm helping my wife with baking, I don't use the Irish butter, for exactly that reason.  For regular cooking, there's no real difference, but I've read the difference in fat content can mess with cookies, for example.  However, I asked her about it a few weeks ago, and she says she's used the Irish butter in cookies and cakes before and never had them turn out weird.  So maybe the difference is overrated.

I would say the accuracy of existing  measurement is overrated, and increased fat content doesn't play any more role than those rounding errors we discussed previously...

And by the way... if you don't want to use electronic devices for conversion purposes, this may work. Is you kitchen big enough for an extra laminated sheet?
I know this version is non-ideal, no spoons, but you get the idea:

[1995hoo]

My mom gave me a butter-cutting device that is supposed to enable you to measure various amounts of butter and then you lift up the knife and it cuts off that amount. I've only tried it once or twice. She found it in a drawer earlier this year and didn't want it, so she gave it to us and I just haven't had much reason to try it yet. It looks similar to this thing:

Is that based on a normal stick of butter, which is to say the stick must be the standard size?  Because the Kerrygold Irish butter we buy is the same weight as four sticks of Kroger brand, but it isn't the same dimensions as four sticks of Kroger brand.  When we cut it into quarters, each stick is a little fatter and shorter than typical.

Yes, I assume it's based on the standard American size, although I don't have the packaging. I've seen the type of butter you reference and I assume it wouldn't work for that. I was mentioning the device more in the context of the remark about taking out a stick, removing the wrapper, putting it in the butter dish, and throwing away the wrapper. This sort of thing could be a solution to that.

[CtrlAltDel]

Yes, I assume it's based on the standard American size

There are actually two American sizes for sticks of butter, one more common in the east and the other in the west. The eastern size is 4.75 × 1.25 × 1.25, while the western size is 3.25 × 1.5 × 1.5. To spare you the math, you get a bit more with the eastern size, although not much, a bit more than 1/3 teaspoon.

[kphoger]

And by the way... if you don't want to use electronic devices for conversion purposes, this may work. Is you kitchen big enough for an extra laminated sheet?
I know this version is non-ideal, no spoons, but you get the idea:

Do you not remember the part where I said I don't have a scale, nor do I want one, nor do I have the counter space for one?

Tell you what:  if you buy me a kitchen scale, then mail me that chart, then buy us a house with a bigger kitchen–then I'll consider going by weight.  Although I probably won't, because it's so much easier to just do what the recipe says.

[kkt]

I happen to have two sizes of "butter" sticks in my fridge now.

Tillamook butter, from Oregon, each stick
4-5/8 x 1-1/4 x 1-1/4 inches = 7.2265 cu. in.

Earth Balance vegan spread, each stick
3-1/4 x 1-1/2 x 1-1/2 inches = 7.3125 cu. in.

Both come four sticks to the 1-pound package.

The only conclusion I have is that it's not that precise.  There's probably a permissable range that it can be less or more than the labeled weight, and save the manufacture from obsessing over calibrating the assembly line every hour...

[kalvado]

I happen to have two sizes of "butter" sticks in my fridge now.

Tillamook butter, from Oregon, each stick
4-5/8 x 1-1/4 x 1-1/4 inches = 7.2265 cu. in.

Earth Balance vegan spread, each stick
3-1/4 x 1-1/2 x 1-1/2 inches = 7.3125 cu. in.

Both come four sticks to the 1-pound package.

The only conclusion I have is that it's not that precise.  There's probably a permissable range that it can be less or more than the labeled weight, and save the manufacture from obsessing over calibrating the assembly line every hour...

Permissible range is set by NIST document, and is about +\-10%

[Rothman]

Heh.  Dated a woman who went to culinary school.  It is a great, strong myth that you have to follow a recipe exactly.  Being off a little here and there is just fine.

[kalvado]

Heh.  Dated a woman who went to culinary school.  It is a great, strong myth that you have to follow a recipe exactly.  Being off a little here and there is just fine.

I would say - it depends. Sometimes being off here and where by quite a bit is OK, sometimes you better be careful. I assume this is one of those things people learn in culinary schools, or if they really want to be good cooks. I know a few dishes only. In particular,   grilling wise ,  I went from "oh shit, we cannot get the correct type of pomegranate juice for this one" to "OK, what do we have handy? Nah, that should work!" over the past year. Being able to read a few books and having to deal with whatever is available definitely helped.

[bulldog1979]

Heh.  Dated a woman who went to culinary school.  It is a great, strong myth that you have to follow a recipe exactly.  Being off a little here and there is just fine.

That works for cooking. Baking, though, is more precise.

[kkt]

I happen to have two sizes of "butter" sticks in my fridge now.

Tillamook butter, from Oregon, each stick
4-5/8 x 1-1/4 x 1-1/4 inches = 7.2265 cu. in.

Earth Balance vegan spread, each stick
3-1/4 x 1-1/2 x 1-1/2 inches = 7.3125 cu. in.

Both come four sticks to the 1-pound package.

The only conclusion I have is that it's not that precise.  There's probably a permissable range that it can be less or more than the labeled weight, and save the manufacture from obsessing over calibrating the assembly line every hour...

Permissible range is set by NIST document, and is about +\-10%

10%??  Jeez.  Don't knock yourself out.

[Rothman]

Heh.  Dated a woman who went to culinary school.  It is a great, strong myth that you have to follow a recipe exactly.  Being off a little here and there is just fine.

That works for cooking. Baking, though, is more precise.

Not necessarily.  I bake and have generally found it to be true still (i.e., being a smidge off with flour or whatnot).

[kphoger]

Heh.  Dated a woman who went to culinary school.  It is a great, strong myth that you have to follow a recipe exactly.  Being off a little here and there is just fine.

I would say - it depends. Sometimes being off here and where by quite a bit is OK, sometimes you better be careful.

That works for cooking. Baking, though, is more precise.

Not necessarily.  I bake and have generally found it to be true still (i.e., being a smidge off with flour or whatnot).

Spices are different, depending on which one you're measuring.  For things like basil or garlic powder or paprika, I just eyeball it–and usually end up adding quite a bit more than the recipe calls for.  But adding too much ground cloves or ginger can have a big negative impact on the final product.  Salt can be that way too.

And, with baking, it can depend on the recipe.  Too much fat can make cookies spread too much, for instance, but some cookie recipes are more finicky than others.

[Rothman]

Heh.  Dated a woman who went to culinary school.  It is a great, strong myth that you have to follow a recipe exactly.  Being off a little here and there is just fine.

I would say - it depends. Sometimes being off here and where by quite a bit is OK, sometimes you better be careful.

That works for cooking. Baking, though, is more precise.

Not necessarily.  I bake and have generally found it to be true still (i.e., being a smidge off with flour or whatnot).

Spices are different, depending on which one you're measuring.  For things like basil or garlic powder or paprika, I just eyeball it–and usually end up adding quite a bit more than the recipe calls for.  But adding too much ground cloves or ginger can have a big negative impact on the final product.  Salt can be that way too.

And, with baking, it can depend on the recipe.  Too much fat can make cookies spread too much, for instance, but some cookie recipes are more finicky than others.

When I say you can be off a smidge, it's a proportional smidge to the amount called for in a recipe.  If it calls for 1/4 tsp of ginger and you put in 1/4 cup, sure, that's going to have some effect.

[US 89]

Heh.  Dated a woman who went to culinary school.  It is a great, strong myth that you have to follow a recipe exactly.  Being off a little here and there is just fine.

I would say - it depends. Sometimes being off here and where by quite a bit is OK, sometimes you better be careful.

That works for cooking. Baking, though, is more precise.

Not necessarily.  I bake and have generally found it to be true still (i.e., being a smidge off with flour or whatnot).

Spices are different, depending on which one you're measuring.  For things like basil or garlic powder or paprika, I just eyeball it–and usually end up adding quite a bit more than the recipe calls for.  But adding too much ground cloves or ginger can have a big negative impact on the final product.  Salt can be that way too.

And, with baking, it can depend on the recipe.  Too much fat can make cookies spread too much, for instance, but some cookie recipes are more finicky than others.

When I say you can be off a smidge, it's a proportional smidge to the amount called for in a recipe.  If it calls for 1/4 tsp of ginger and you put in 1/4 cup, sure, that's going to have some effect.

If you can only be off by a smidgen, there's not much room for error...

[TXtoNJ]

Heh.  Dated a woman who went to culinary school.  It is a great, strong myth that you have to follow a recipe exactly.  Being off a little here and there is just fine.

That works for cooking. Baking, though, is more precise.

Not necessarily.  I bake and have generally found it to be true still (i.e., being a smidge off with flour or whatnot).

Yes, so much of it is by feel, but I can tell that advice isn't going to appeal to some of the more literal-minded posters around here.

[kphoger]

When I say you can be off a smidge, it's a proportional smidge to the amount called for in a recipe.  If it calls for 1/4 tsp of ginger and you put in 1/4 cup, sure, that's going to have some effect.

And my point is that it's not just proportional to the amount, but is also dependent on the ingredient.

If it calls for a teaspoon of onion powder and you put in a tablespoon, then you probably won't even notice the difference.  If basil or paprika, it'll probably taste even better that way.  But if cloves or ginger or black pepper or salt, then all bets are off.

How do metric recipes list herbs and spices?  Do they expect you to weigh them out?  I mean, if a recipe calls for eight different ones...?

[J N Winkler]

I have read that most recipes aimed at popular audiences are designed to give acceptable results for main ingredients in the range of 50%-200% of the quantities specified when cooking (though baking normally demands a greater degree of accuracy).  In the interests of better heart health, I usually substitute potassium chloride (No-Salt or similar) for table salt.  I also bake very rarely since nearly all of my recipes for both sweet and savory baked goods call for animal fats (butter or cream cheese), which are quite high in saturated fat.  Thus, I've been keeping my use of measuring cups and spoons to a minimum.

I also have experience of cooking and baking in the UK, and in storage I think I have a copy of Mrs. Beeton's (a cookbook whose first edition came out during Queen Victoria's reign).  There are odd units--e.g., the dessertspoon--as well as imperial volume measures, which are based on a slightly different fluid ounce (28.4 mL versus 29.6 mL in the US) and a different number of fluid ounces in a pint (20 versus 16), but all of these can be bridged with appropriate definitions of each unit (their respective metric conversions furnish a convenient reality check, since metric units are the same everywhere).  The real difficulties come with solid ingredients being quoted by mass or weight rather than volume and with ingredient availability.  For the former, I either used a kitchen scale directly or converted to volume measures using nominal densities.  One example of the latter is American-style brown sugar, which is a rich golden-brown color, being difficult to find--the reliably available alternatives were demerara sugar, which is the same hue but has a coarser texture, and what the British call brown sugar, which is a very dark brown due to much higher molasses content.

Even ingredients that are essentially the same on either side of the Atlantic are packaged to different standards.  For example, stick butter as we know it in the US basically does not exist there.  It comes in rectangular bricks of 250 g, wrapped in foil or wax paper.  I used a hard conversion of 16 T (US) per 250 g (about 10% higher than nominal for the US, and well within my acceptable range of error when using wrappers to measure).

Nothing I ever made in Britain to a US recipe proved to be inedible, but the taste was usually at least subtly different.

[kalvado]

When I say you can be off a smidge, it's a proportional smidge to the amount called for in a recipe.  If it calls for 1/4 tsp of ginger and you put in 1/4 cup, sure, that's going to have some effect.

And my point is that it's not just proportional to the amount, but is also dependent on the ingredient.

If it calls for a teaspoon of onion powder and you put in a tablespoon, then you probably won't even notice the difference.  If basil or paprika, it'll probably taste even better that way.  But if cloves or ginger or black pepper or salt, then all bets are off.

How do metric recipes list herbs and spices?  Do they expect you to weigh them out?  I mean, if a recipe calls for eight different ones...?

I see at least some scripts using teaspoons for spices. After all, tea/tablespoons are more or less the same across the world as humans have similar anatomy and moth size. There may be a difference between 1/6 oz US teaspoon and 5 ml european teaspoon, but a bit more/less cinnamon is not going to make a difference. Not more than the difference between fresh and last year's package of cinnamon anyway.
Before you ask, eggs also go in terms of countable eggs (one egg, two eggs), not by ml.
Moreover, there is a hardware conversion device for you convenience!

[kkt]

Some metric recipes have oh-so-helpful instructions like:  3-4 sprigs each rosemary, sage, and savory

Unhelpful recipes can be in any system of units!

[Rothman]

Heh.  Dated a woman who went to culinary school.  It is a great, strong myth that you have to follow a recipe exactly.  Being off a little here and there is just fine.

I would say - it depends. Sometimes being off here and where by quite a bit is OK, sometimes you better be careful.

That works for cooking. Baking, though, is more precise.

Not necessarily.  I bake and have generally found it to be true still (i.e., being a smidge off with flour or whatnot).

Spices are different, depending on which one you're measuring.  For things like basil or garlic powder or paprika, I just eyeball it–and usually end up adding quite a bit more than the recipe calls for.  But adding too much ground cloves or ginger can have a big negative impact on the final product.  Salt can be that way too.

And, with baking, it can depend on the recipe.  Too much fat can make cookies spread too much, for instance, but some cookie recipes are more finicky than others.

When I say you can be off a smidge, it's a proportional smidge to the amount called for in a recipe.  If it calls for 1/4 tsp of ginger and you put in 1/4 cup, sure, that's going to have some effect.

If you can only be off by a smidgen, there's not much room for error...

But I didn't say smidgen.