AARoads Forum

Regional Boards => Mountain West => Topic started by: swbrotha100 on February 22, 2015, 07:18:10 PM

Title: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: swbrotha100 on February 22, 2015, 07:18:10 PM
Hoping to have most of the Phoenix-area projects (both planned and under construction) in this thread.

I'll start by mentioning the Northern Parkway. Now that overpasses are complete over Reems Rd and Litchfield Rd, it makes for a nice little highway from Loop 303 to Dysart Rd. We'll see how things go as the Northern Parkway is built further east.

Speaking of Loop 303, it's amazing how different it is now than a few years ago. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the current construction zone (just south of US 60/Grand Ave to Happy Valley Parkway) is complete by this time next year. About the only thing that has yet to start is the new El Mirage Rd overpass and interchange.

The biggest question mark right now is if/when the South Mountain Freeway section of Loop 202 will finally get underway. An optimistic view (for those in support of the freeway) would be for construction to start by early 2016.

Another long term project is the proposed I-11 and how it may be used as a freeway bypass of Phoenix. If I-11 has to use existing highway corridors, I wouldn't be opposed to the future freeway replacing the current stretch of AZ 85 between I-8 and I-10.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: blanketcomputer on February 23, 2015, 10:51:00 AM
Loop 101 (Pima) is still in the midst of its widening north of the Red Mountain Freeway. Just a few months ago ADOT began a study to potentially widen Loop 101 (Price) from US 60 to Loop 202 (Santan).

Loop 303 has a lot of work underway as mentioned in the previous post. Work is to begin this year on the south half of the Loop 303/I-10 interchange and work to extend Loop 303 south to Van Buren should begin in 2016.

Loop 202 (Red Mountain) is in the middle of its widening project. This project seems to be coming together very quickly. The median area for the HOV lanes is nearly completed from Power Road to Broadway Road. After decades of practice it seems like ADOT is getting pretty efficient at the median paving business. Still a lot of work to do between Loop 101 and Gilbert Road, though some new retaining walls and sound walls can be seen from the freeway so progress is evident.

I think the biggest project is obviously the Loop 202 South Mountain Freeway. There is no doubt that this project will be constructed, and I believe ADOT will try to begin work as soon as the record of decision is released this spring. I am imagining the years worth of headaches drivers will have to endure during the construction of the Loop 202/I-10 (Papago) interchange. Building a T-interchange with HOV connections in one of the busiest sections of freeway in Arizona will be interesting.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on February 23, 2015, 04:26:51 PM
A project that has been going on for the past year is the installation of logo signs on the Phoenix area freeways; I have another thread that tracks their installation.  The current buildout phase is for Loop 202 (except between Loop 101 and Gilbert Road on the Red Mountain Freeway) and SR 51, however in the past month no new signs have been installed (except at Loop 101 and Glendale Ave with the additional 6 panel lodging sign, which also added several trailblazer signs), since several of the existing leases were coming up for renewal, thus some existing signs got some new logos added or removed. 

I expect new installations will resume at least next month, however last year there were no new signs installed from January to April, with new installations not resuming until May, so perhaps ADOT might wait like they did last year.  The next phase after Loop 202 and SR 51 is US 60 Superstition and Loop 202 Red Mountain between Loop 101 and Gilbert Road, which is supposed to begin sometime in the second half of 2015.  I would love to see Buca di Beppo of Mesa get a logo sign at the US 60 and Val Vista exit.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: 707 on March 12, 2015, 01:52:47 AM
I was surprised to see that a brief stint of AZ 24 was constructed on Loop 202 last year. Though I wonder why they even built that brief section and didn't use that money on US 93, I-10 or Loop 303.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: blanketcomputer on March 12, 2015, 04:20:44 AM
I was surprised to see that a brief stint of AZ 24 was constructed on Loop 202 last year. Though I wonder why they even built that brief section and didn't use that money on US 93, I-10 or Loop 303.

The City of Mesa issued bonds to expedite the construction of the first mile of SR 24.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: 707 on March 12, 2015, 11:33:18 AM
I was surprised to see that a brief stint of AZ 24 was constructed on Loop 202 last year. Though I wonder why they even built that brief section and didn't use that money on US 93, I-10 or Loop 303.

The City of Mesa issued bonds to expedite the construction of the first mile of SR 24.

That explains it then. Does ADOT issue bonds to raise money for its projects as well?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: blanketcomputer on March 12, 2015, 01:27:14 PM
That explains it then. Does ADOT issue bonds to raise money for its projects as well?

I am not sure bonds are issued for specific projects, but the State Transportation Board does issue bonds for the highway user revenue fund and the regional area road fund.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on March 12, 2015, 11:12:32 PM
I was surprised to see that a brief stint of AZ 24 was constructed on Loop 202 last year. Though I wonder why they even built that brief section and didn't use that money on US 93, I-10 or Loop 303.

The City of Mesa issued bonds to expedite the construction of the first mile of SR 24.

That move kinda confused me, as AZ 24 really has no purpose and doesn't go anywhere. Seems like Mesa spent a lot of money on something that there is very benefit from considering how short the road is. Basically it's a really fancy offramp for Ellsworth.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: 707 on March 13, 2015, 11:16:13 AM
I was surprised to see that a brief stint of AZ 24 was constructed on Loop 202 last year. Though I wonder why they even built that brief section and didn't use that money on US 93, I-10 or Loop 303.

The City of Mesa issued bonds to expedite the construction of the first mile of SR 24.

That move kinda confused me, as AZ 24 really has no purpose and doesn't go anywhere. Seems like Mesa spent a lot of money on something that there is very benefit from considering how short the road is. Basically it's a really fancy offramp for Ellsworth.

My thoughts exactly. I can understand AZ 24 being a shortcut to the AZ 79/US 60 Florence Interchange in the future, but the current status of it as this luxurious off ramp is kind of silly.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: blanketcomputer on March 13, 2015, 02:06:15 PM

The City of Mesa issued bonds to expedite the construction of the first mile of SR 24.

That move kinda confused me, as AZ 24 really has no purpose and doesn't go anywhere. Seems like Mesa spent a lot of money on something that there is very benefit from considering how short the road is. Basically it's a really fancy offramp for Ellsworth.

My thoughts exactly. I can understand AZ 24 being a shortcut to the AZ 79/US 60 Florence Interchange in the future, but the current status of it as this luxurious off ramp is kind of silly.

Mesa has been focusing a lot of spending in the Phoenix-Mesa Gateway Airport and ASU Polytech area, along with the large residential developments quickly being built just off the SR 24 Ellsworth Road exit. Future expansions of the Gateway airport terminal call for some interesting ramps to and from SR 24 and Mesa has always been very active in getting the freeways it wants built. Construction of the Loop 202 interchange and the mile of ramps to Ellsworth Road was scheduled for 2016, then Ellsworth Road to Meridian Road in 2026, and it's up to Pinal County east of Meridian Road because SR 24 is being built from Maricopa County's Prop. 400 sales tax revenue to the county line. Mesa's bonds moved phase 1 construction to when it began in 2012. The extension east of Ellsworth is still scheduled for 2026 when SR 30 is scheduled to begin construction as well.

The added bonus of the early interchange construction is the traffic using Ellsworth Road from Queen Creek and San Tan Valley can now use SR 24 to Loop 202 to get anywhere in the valley instead of having to head north through more residential areas of Mesa to get to Loop 202 or US 60.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on March 20, 2015, 12:01:21 AM
Looking at some Town of Gilbert documents, ADOT and the Town of Gilbert are proposing adding an interchange at Loop 202 SanTan Freeway and Lindsay Road.  Geometry studies have been ongoing.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: JKRhodes on March 20, 2015, 12:17:52 PM
The added bonus of the early interchange construction is the traffic using Ellsworth Road from Queen Creek and San Tan Valley can now use SR 24 to Loop 202 to get anywhere in the valley instead of having to head north through more residential areas of Mesa to get to Loop 202 or US 60.

Exactly. Ellsworth and Hunt Highway comprise the main artery connecting STV and QC to Gilbert, Mesa and points beyond. It's undergone an impressive number of widening projects in recent years.

I wonder what the ultimate plan is for a freeway connection to San Tan Valley, if one exists. Given all the development along the Ellsworth/Hunt corridor, I think building up Ironwood/Gantzel to freeway standards and placing an interchange at AZ 24 when it eventually comes through would be a nice option.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: swbrotha100 on March 20, 2015, 03:38:24 PM
The added bonus of the early interchange construction is the traffic using Ellsworth Road from Queen Creek and San Tan Valley can now use SR 24 to Loop 202 to get anywhere in the valley instead of having to head north through more residential areas of Mesa to get to Loop 202 or US 60.

Exactly. Ellsworth and Hunt Highway comprise the main artery connecting STV and QC to Gilbert, Mesa and points beyond. It's undergone an impressive number of widening projects in recent years.

I wonder what the ultimate plan is for a freeway connection to San Tan Valley, if one exists. Given all the development along the Ellsworth/Hunt corridor, I think building up Ironwood/Gantzel to freeway standards and placing an interchange at AZ 24 when it eventually comes through would be a nice option.

The Pinal North-South Freeway is one planned to eventually serve San Tan Valley and nearby areas. It would go from US 60 around Ironwood Dr to I-10 somewhere near Eloy.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: blanketcomputer on March 20, 2015, 08:35:46 PM
Looking at some Town of Gilbert documents, ADOT and the Town of Gilbert are proposing adding an interchange at Loop 202 SanTan Freeway and Lindsay Road.  Geometry studies have been ongoing.

I think this is a good idea. Lindsay Road is also planned to have a west-half interchange with US 60 in the 2020s. Loop 202 is scheduled to gain an interchange at Mesa Drive around the same time.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on March 20, 2015, 08:55:01 PM

I think this is a good idea. Lindsay Road is also planned to have a west-half interchange with US 60 in the 2020s. Loop 202 is scheduled to gain an interchange at Mesa Drive around the same time.

Of course, the nearby canals may be a problem, which could be why interchanges have not been built and possibly why the US 60 interchange will only be west-half.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on May 04, 2015, 09:22:20 PM
Speaking of SR 24, I wonder if most Queen Creek residents use it to go west to Chandler on Loop 202.  Using it to go north to US 60 it makes perfect sense, but it definitely seems to be a roundabout way to go west to Chandler due to Loop 202's S-curve to the south.  Using Rittenhouse to Germann to Val Vista seems to be much shorter in distance and probably in time as well.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: JKRhodes on May 24, 2015, 01:53:55 AM
Speaking of SR 24, I wonder if most Queen Creek residents use it to go west to Chandler on Loop 202.  Using it to go north to US 60 it makes perfect sense, but it definitely seems to be a roundabout way to go west to Chandler due to Loop 202's S-curve to the south.  Using Rittenhouse to Germann to Val Vista seems to be much shorter in distance and probably in time as well.

That seems to be the common route from Queen Creek to Chandler, Phoenix and points beyond. When I worked in Downtown Phoenix, a coworker of mine who commuted from Johnson Ranch would snake up surface streets to Loop 202, and on to I-10. Taking US 60 to Ellsworth or Ironwood feels much longer, unless you work in Scottsdale, Tempe or Mesa.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on June 10, 2015, 06:01:38 PM
I just noticed that at Loop 202 SanTan Freeway and Kyrene, some brand new Skyline Products full matrix LED variable message signs have been installed. I wonder if these are the new full color models. ADOT's new contract with Skyline that they signed last year included some orders for full color VMS.

Note that prior to last year, Skyline was ADOT 's provider for off-freeway VMS, while on-freeway VMS were fixed character models provided by Daktronics. ADOT last year decided not to renew its contract with Daktronics and Skyline is now the exclusive VMS provider for ADOT, with all new models (both on- and off-freeway) now being full matrix.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ARMOURERERIC on June 10, 2015, 06:05:49 PM
Speaking of SR 24, I wonder if most Queen Creek residents use it to go west to Chandler on Loop 202.  Using it to go north to US 60 it makes perfect sense, but it definitely seems to be a roundabout way to go west to Chandler due to Loop 202's S-curve to the south.  Using Rittenhouse to Germann to Val Vista seems to be much shorter in distance and probably in time as well.

Dang, I remeber going to the SCA Estrella War as a merchant in 1999 and most of these roads were barely paved back then.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on June 11, 2015, 09:38:30 PM
About the new VMS on the SanTan Freeway, this is actually part of a project to install the Freeway Management System on the SanTan Freeway, along with the ramp meters that have been installed at the Dobson interchange.  The first phase of the project will be completed this year and will be from I-10 to Dobson.  The next phase is planned for next year and will extend the FMS to Val Vista.

I wonder though, does the Red Mountain Freeway widening project include the installation of FMS?  I would be surprised if it doesn't, because it seems the Red Mountain Freeway would be higher priority than the SanTan Freeway since it gets more traffic (otherwise they wouldn't be widening it).
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on June 12, 2015, 05:01:16 PM
Just found out from ADOT that the new Skyline VMS on Loop 202 have the ability to display full color, however, ADOT does not currently have any plans to utilize the color features of the signs and they will be programmed in amber-only for now.  In addition, while these new signs are full matrix, they will continue to be programmed as if they were fixed character signs using the same monospaced font as other signs.

I presume the reasons why ADOT isn't currently using them to display colors or graphics is likely because all VMS in the Phoenix area are programmed and controlled using the same software, thus ADOT is trying to maintain compatibility with the existing fixed character signs, rather than using separate software to control the new Skyline full matrix signs.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ztonyg on June 13, 2015, 10:48:33 PM
ADOT has put in a number of Skyline full matrix LED signs up in the last 2-3 years on freeways.

I-17 has them S/B at near Bell Rd and also near Greenway Rd and N/B at Thunderbird and N of Bell Rd.

AZ 51 has them N/B and S/B at Bell Rd.

L101 has them N/B and E/B at Northern, Bell, the curve from N/B to E/B at Beardsley, and at approximately 43rd Ave whereas in the W/B direction there are Skyline full matrix LED signs at approximately 35th Ave, Bell Rd, Northern, and Indian School. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on June 13, 2015, 10:55:58 PM
ADOT has put in a number of Skyline full matrix LED signs up in the last 2-3 years on freeways.

I-17 has them S/B at near Bell Rd and also near Greenway Rd and N/B at Thunderbird and N of Bell Rd.

AZ 51 has them N/B and S/B at Bell Rd.

L101 has them N/B and E/B at Northern, Bell, the curve from N/B to E/B at Beardsley, and at approximately 43rd Ave whereas in the W/B direction there are Skyline full matrix LED signs at approximately 35th Ave, Bell Rd, Northern, and Indian School.

Interesting.  BTW, I saw another new Skyline full matrix VMS on I-10 near Wild Horse Pass Blvd today.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ztonyg on June 13, 2015, 11:12:14 PM
ADOT has put in a number of Skyline full matrix LED signs up in the last 2-3 years on freeways.

I-17 has them S/B at near Bell Rd and also near Greenway Rd and N/B at Thunderbird and N of Bell Rd.

AZ 51 has them N/B and S/B at Bell Rd.

L101 has them N/B and E/B at Northern, Bell, the curve from N/B to E/B at Beardsley, and at approximately 43rd Ave whereas in the W/B direction there are Skyline full matrix LED signs at approximately 35th Ave, Bell Rd, Northern, and Indian School.

Interesting.  BTW, I saw another new Skyline full matrix VMS on I-10 near Wild Horse Pass Blvd today.

That Wild Horse Pass Blvd one must be new.  There's also a Skyline VMS on I-10 W/B just N of I-8 in Casa Grande, one on I-17 S/B just N of AZ 69 in Cordes Jct., one on I-40 W/B in Winslow, and I believe I saw one E/B on I-10 somewhere in western Arizona.

Interestingly enough, after ADOT had switched to Skyline for their freeway VMSs, they did purchase 2 Daktronics freeway DMSs about 1 - 1.5 years ago for an new installation near I-10 and Prince Rd in Tucson  (I believe these are the newest Daktronics DMSs in the state). 

I am curious if they're going to start to phase out any more of the Sylvia Fiber Optic VMSs.  They replaced 4 of the Sylvia signs with Daktronics DMSs on I-10 (2 E/B and 2 W/B between Loop 101 and I-17) about 5 years ago.  However, it seems that they've rehabilitated the vast majority of the remaining Sylvia fiber optic VMSs. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on June 14, 2015, 02:10:54 AM

That Wild Horse Pass Blvd one must be new.  There's also a Skyline VMS on I-10 W/B just N of I-8 in Casa Grande, one on I-17 S/B just N of AZ 69 in Cordes Jct., one on I-40 W/B in Winslow, and I believe I saw one E/B on I-10 somewhere in western Arizona.

Interestingly enough, after ADOT had switched to Skyline for their freeway VMSs, they did purchase 2 Daktronics freeway DMSs about 1 - 1.5 years ago for an new installation near I-10 and Prince Rd in Tucson  (I believe these are the newest Daktronics DMSs in the state). 

I am curious if they're going to start to phase out any more of the Sylvia Fiber Optic VMSs.  They replaced 4 of the Sylvia signs with Daktronics DMSs on I-10 (2 E/B and 2 W/B between Loop 101 and I-17) about 5 years ago.  However, it seems that they've rehabilitated the vast majority of the remaining Sylvia fiber optic VMSs.

Yes, the one at Wild Horse Pass is brand new; there were still orange "SIGN UNDER TEST" signs on both sides of the gantry.

Perhaps the Sylvia fiber optic DMS that still have internal incandescent lighting may soon be replaced by new Skyline signs; there are still a few on the US 60 Superstition Freeway that haven't yet been retrofitted with LED lighting.  However, the rehabilitated Sylvia DMS will likely remain in service for years to come.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ztonyg on June 20, 2015, 02:32:37 AM
I was actually impressed that ADOT installed 7 new Skyline VMSs around the I-10 / L-202 interchange in relatively short order.

I counted 2 E/B on I-10 (one N of L-202 and one N of Queen Creek Rd) and 2 W/B on I-10 (1 N of Queen Creek Rd and  1 N of Wild Pass Blvd).

There are also 2 E/B on Loop 202 (one W of Kyrene Rd and one W of McClintock Dr) and 1 W/B on Loop 202 East of Kyrene Rd.

In addition, this weekend they will be installing another one on N/B I-17 at Pinnacle Peak Rd (directly S of the Daktronics sign for S/B I-17). 
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on June 21, 2015, 07:23:45 PM
I was reading some information of Phoenix area highways, and it appears that back in 2003 there was a proposal to extend the Loop 101 Price Freeway south of its current terminus at the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway all the way to I-10.

I wonder, what became of those plans? I assume it is now unlikely it will ever become a reality, as ever since the Price Corridor has been built up as a major employment center, and building a freeway through would require all these companies to relocate, which could adversely impact the Chandler economy. Plus, considering how the Gila River Indian Reservation voted down to have the South Mountain Freeway built on their land, I don't see how they would approve an extension of the Price Freeway to I-10.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Zonie on June 28, 2015, 06:52:44 PM
I think that was a feasibility study put together by an engineering firm.

http://www.azmag.gov/Documents/pdf/cms.resource/WP8-findings-rec.pdf

For six miles of freeway, the 2003 estimated cost was $390 million, which would have been north of $500 million if construction started now.  With that much cost, and not much benefit, I can see why some other southeast valley projects would have been prioritized.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on September 15, 2015, 02:34:27 PM
Yesterday I noticed the Skyline full-matrix DMS on the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway displaying the I-10 shooter tip line.  I wonder when will we start seeing travel times on these signs.

Also, have any new ones been installed on the Red Mountain Freeway east of Country Club?  Last time I heard the gantries have been installed, but I don't know if the signs themselves have been installed yet.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: blanketcomputer on September 16, 2015, 03:19:04 PM
Also, have any new ones been installed on the Red Mountain Freeway east of Country Club?  Last time I heard the gantries have been installed, but I don't know if the signs themselves have been installed yet.

I believe that as of today all of the new full matrix DMS have been installed in both directions along the entire HOV lane project area east of Gilbert Rd. Eastbound/southbound has a sign just before Greenfield, another just after Recker, one just south McKellips, and just south of Main St. Northbound/westbound has signs just south of McKellips, between Recker and Higley, and just west of Val Vista.

If I had to guess what destinations the new DMS signs will show, I think it will largely be the same destinations as DMS along US 60, but the southbound portion of Loop 202 will complicate that. I'm guessing southbound sign near Main St will show times for US 60 at Gilbert Rd and either SR 24 or Power Rd. DMSs along US 60 might be changed to show travel times to a cross street of Loop 202.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on September 16, 2015, 10:08:51 PM
BTW, I wonder what is the real reason for ADOT switching to full matrix DMS if they are not currently being used to their full potential.  As far as I know, all of ADOT's DMS are programmed with the same software, and thus they are programmed in a fixed character style monospaced font (although some rows get shifted slightly with some messages on the full matrix signs).  Many of the older SYLVIA fixed character fiber optic signs have been refurbished with LEDs, and the Daktronics fixed character LED signs are still fairly new, with the most recent ones being installed in late 2013/early 2014.  Except for the SYLVIA signs that have not been rehabilitated, I don't see the fixed character signs being replaced anytime soon.

Perhaps it could be due to declining manufacturer support for fixed character signs, thus ADOT wanted their RFP to be open to more bidders.  According to Skyline's website, they don't appear to produce fixed character signs anymore.  In the last RFP, ADOT received bids from Skyline, Daktronics, and Digital Traffic Systems, Inc., although DTS' bid was deemed non-responsive.  For comparison, Daktronics' bid was more than double the price of Skyline's bid, although not sure who scored higher on specification.

Note that ADOT's contract with Skyline expires in January, however, the contract I think includes an option for an extension until October 2017.  Note ADOT's contract with Skyline was signed in 2012, with an extension option exercised in 2014.  If ADOT decides to send out another RFP, I wonder what manufacturers will bid.  Perhaps we could see a bid from Adaptive Displays, who currently holds NMDOT's contract (they switched from Skyline I think in the early 2010s).
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on September 21, 2015, 07:05:05 PM
I happened to be down in the Valley over the weekend and made a couple observations.

First, how nice it is to have the 303 out there in the West Valley and have it connect up to I-17 and come all the way down. The segment between Happy Valley and Bell is looking good, there's what, maybe a year left on that project? That will be an absolute dream once the 303 is all-freeway out there. At what point is the "proper" interchange with I-17 coming? The current temporary one seems sufficient at this time, honestly, but I know they built all that to be ready for the proper interchange in a few years.

Also, I got to drive the Northern Parkway for the first time (I had honestly forgotten about it until my GPS showed me that route to get from Surprise to Cabela's). Man, just the combo of the 303 and the Northern Parkway is going to be very welcome for everyone out there in Surprise to get into Phoenix proper to events and other places. Instead of taking Bell or Grand to get out of Surprise, that Northern Parkway makes things a LOT easier to get down around the Cardinals Stadium, Westgate, and continue further south. Question on that one too, though, it currently ends at Dysart. I looked on the webside and it said the Agua Fria bridge would be done in FY2015, but the website appears to not have been updated in quite some time. What is the status on that, and is there any further info (drawings, etc) on how that will interact with the 101? Having Northern Parkway as limited-access between the 101 and 303 should take a lot of load off of Bell and especially Grand for people heading out to the Northwest Valley. Definitely looking forward to seeing how that all plays out.

Bottom line, getting around in the West Valley is looking like it will be much easier within the next 5 years with the 303 and Northern Parkway additions. Just gotta get through the mess that will be the Bell Rd/Grand Ave reconstruction (seriously, that's going to be a clusterf*** of epic proportions while that is under construction).
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: blanketcomputer on September 22, 2015, 05:57:27 AM
I believe most or all of the work on Loop 303 between Happy Valley Pkwy and Bell Road will be complete by summer 2016. The Loop 303/I-17 interchange is not going to be constructed anytime soon. The interchange will likely be grouped with a project upgrading the interim roadway between Happy Valley Pkwy and I-17. The interim road is more than sufficient for the foreseeable future. MAG does not have the interchange programmed into the regional freeway program project schedule at all, meaning it will probably be at least 2026 before the interchange is constructed and will probably rely on another 20 years extension of the Prop 400 half-cent sales tax. All of the Loop 303 excitement for the next ten years will be focused on construction south of I-10.

As for Northern Parkway, I agree it's a very nice road in a very good corridor. MCDOT's website is rarely updated and the project timeline shown on their website has been wrong for years. I'm not sure there is any definitive answer about when the El Mirage or Agua Fria River bridges will be built, just that the project is supposed to be complete in total by 2025. East of El Mirage Rd, Northern Pkwy will be an at-grade "Arizona Parkway" with left turns performed by completing a U-turn and a right turn. The interchange will Loop 101 will likely be at-grade also.

The trumpet interchange between Northern Pkwy and Loop 303 is interim. The final configuration includes flyovers connecting Loop 303 to Northern Pkwy and frontage roads connecting Northern Ave, Northern Pkwy, and Olive Ave. The Northern Ave interchange with Loop 303 was constructed to accommodate this future frontage road.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: N9JIG on September 26, 2015, 01:05:54 PM
As a new resident to the far northwest Valley (15 miles west of Surprise), I have come to appreciate the freeway system in the area. We do however need something better for E-W traffic in the NW area. L303's E-W leg is too far north and  I-10 is too far south. Other than the little segment of the Northern Parkway there is no viable E-W freeway.

I know it is difficult to impossible to build one now, but it certainly would have been great if there was one between Bell Road and Glendale Av. between L303 and I-17. I think one of the plans when the Loops were designed had Grand Ave. being upgraded but obviously that never happened.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on September 27, 2015, 01:44:43 AM
The Paradise freeway was supposed to go across the middle of town along Camelback Road from the 101 in the west valley over to the 51. An extension west of there to the 303 would have made the Northern Parkway unnecessary.  Grand being a freeway would have helped, too.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: blanketcomputer on October 03, 2015, 01:57:35 PM
Does anyone know about the naming of Loop 303? It was planned as the Estrella Freeway, but was changed to Bob Stump Memorial Parkway in 2004. It's marked Bob Stump Memorial Parkway on Google Maps, but I don't recall any current physical signs naming it. The only nameplate with Bob Stump Memorial Parkway was an old white-on-black sign removed after Loop 303 was upgraded to a freeway. ADOT has advertised TRAC H857701C to complete the southern portion of the I-10/Loop 303 interchange south to Van Buren. The TRAC lists the name as the Estrella Freeway.

I would rather the freeway be named the Estrella Freeway, keeping in line with the common Phoenix area theme of naming after nearby mountains like Red Mountain, South Mountain, Santan, etc.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on October 03, 2015, 07:22:01 PM
Does anyone know about the naming of Loop 303? It was planned as the Estrella Freeway, but was changed to Bob Stump Memorial Parkway in 2004. It's marked Bob Stump Memorial Parkway on Google Maps, but I don't recall any current physical signs naming it. The only nameplate with Bob Stump Memorial Parkway was an old white-on-black sign removed after Loop 303 was upgraded to a freeway. ADOT has advertised TRAC H857701C to complete the southern portion of the I-10/Loop 303 interchange south to Van Buren. The TRAC lists the name as the Estrella Freeway.

I would rather the freeway be named the Estrella Freeway, keeping in line with the common Phoenix area theme of naming after nearby mountains like Red Mountain, South Mountain, Santan, etc.

Interesting that ADOT would remove the nameplate from that sign; on the Loop 101 Price Freeway northbound, on a sign just after the Baseline exit, a new black-on-white Loop 101 shield and "North" cardinal direction plate were installed in the past year, but the existing white-on-blue "Price Freeway" plate was retained.  Interestingly, this is only one of two signs that have "Price Freeway" plates, the other being a white-on-green plate near Chandler Boulevard, also in the northbound direction.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: swbrotha100 on October 04, 2015, 05:09:31 AM
Does anyone know about the naming of Loop 303? It was planned as the Estrella Freeway, but was changed to Bob Stump Memorial Parkway in 2004. It's marked Bob Stump Memorial Parkway on Google Maps, but I don't recall any current physical signs naming it. The only nameplate with Bob Stump Memorial Parkway was an old white-on-black sign removed after Loop 303 was upgraded to a freeway. ADOT has advertised TRAC H857701C to complete the southern portion of the I-10/Loop 303 interchange south to Van Buren. The TRAC lists the name as the Estrella Freeway.

I would rather the freeway be named the Estrella Freeway, keeping in line with the common Phoenix area theme of naming after nearby mountains like Red Mountain, South Mountain, Santan, etc.

I remember some "Bob Stump Memorial Parkway" signs in areas where Loop 303 was not yet a freeway. The current and future freeway sections just have "Loop 303" signs.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on October 16, 2015, 12:18:39 PM
Looks like ADOT has just exercised one of its contract extension options with Skyline Products to July 24, 2016 with another DMS order.  I presume this order may be for the DMS that will be installed on the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway from Dobson Road to Ray Road.  ADOT still has a few more extension options up to October 24, 2017.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: blanketcomputer on October 22, 2015, 03:38:36 AM
ADOT opened the west-half interchange of US 60 and Meridian Road (Exit 194) a few days ago. I drove by to check it out and noticed the the on-ramp is signed with two advisory "Exit - 20 MPH" signs, even though it's a loop on ramp.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on October 26, 2015, 04:36:40 PM
According to ADOT's ITS map, the new DMS on the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway between I-10 and Loop 101 are now fully operational.  However, I wonder when we will start seeing the travel times on these signs.  Here are my guesses for the destinations:

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on November 02, 2015, 11:39:49 AM
I got an update about the ramp meters on the Loop 202, and I got confirmation that there are presently no plans to install ramp meters on the Loop 202 Red Mountain Freeway east of Gilbert Road.  A ramp meter warrant analysis has determined that they are not currently needed on that segment.

For the SanTan Freeway, a ramp meter warrant analysis is underway.  I can see them being installed at Arizona Avenue, Gilbert Road, and Val Vista Drive.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on February 20, 2016, 11:20:23 PM
I recently went to the Renaissance Festival at Gold Canyon today, and I was recently wondering, I know there is a proposed realignment of the Superstition Freeway to bypass Gold Canyon.  I wonder, if the bypass is built, would the old route become US 60 Business?  Or perhaps US 60 can remain on the old route and the new route becomes US 60 By-Pass.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: 707 on February 22, 2016, 11:10:20 PM
I recently went to the Renaissance Festival at Gold Canyon today, and I was recently wondering, I know there is a proposed realignment of the Superstition Freeway to bypass Gold Canyon.  I wonder, if the bypass is built, would the old route become US 60 Business?  Or perhaps US 60 can remain on the old route and the new route becomes US 60 By-Pass.

Given Arizona, the new route will be US 60 and the old one will likely be handed over to Pinal County.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on February 23, 2016, 11:27:08 AM

Given Arizona, the new route will be US 60 and the old one will likely be handed over to Pinal County.

I guess this is the case, however, note that ADOT does have the unsigned US 60X, which are two discontinuous segments of the original US 60.  The western segment follows Grand Avenue from Thomas Road to 18th Avenue in Phoenix, while the eastern segment is mostly within a county island surrounded by Mesa and follows Main Street/Apache Trail from Sossaman to Meridian (the Apache Junction/Pinal County line).
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: The Ghostbuster on February 23, 2016, 05:01:42 PM
Are there any plans to add toll lanes to Phoenix's freeway system?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on February 23, 2016, 06:02:16 PM
Are there any plans to add toll lanes to Phoenix's freeway system?

It has been proposed, but no official plans currently.

BTW, ADOT has put up a bid advertisement for FMS Phase 14B (Loop 202 SanTan Freeway from Dobson Road to Ray Road in Chandler and Gilbert).  This will include new dynamic message signs, CCTV cameras, loop detectors, and ramp meters (at select interchanges). 

I wonder if the DMS for this project will be from ADOT's existing contract with Skyline Products, or will they be from ADOT's next contract.  ADOT's contract with Skyline expires in July, however, ADOT does have options to extend the contract up to October 2017.  So far no RFP has been issued for a new DMS contract.  ADOT most recently exercised its latest contract extension with Skyline in October 2015, extending the end of the contract from January 2016 to July 2016.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: swbrotha100 on April 11, 2016, 06:00:47 PM
Some updates to what's going on around the valley:

Loop 202: The South Mountain Freeway segment isn't getting that much attention yet. Demolition of residential and commercial properties can be seen in the neighborhoods near Pecos Rd, and also 59th Ave near I-10 and the land near I-10 between 51st Ave and 67th Ave. As of now most of the commercial properties that are closed have been fenced off. The rest is still ongoing. The only road work to happen soon is a City of Phoenix project to extend Chandler Blvd between 19th Ave and 27th Ave.

Loop 101: Widening in the Scottsdale area will add at least 1 extra lane between Loop 202 (Red Mountain Freeway) and Shea Blvd. As of today, the extra lane is open SB from Thomas Rd to the 202, and NB should be at least paved in the next couple weeks to Thomas.

Loop 303: New ramps are open to connect Loop 303 to Grand Ave (US 60). Would not be surprised to see changes at El Mirage Rd soon. Also construction has started to finish the I-10 ramps and extend Loop 303 to south of Van Buren St. Cotton Lane south of I-10 looks destined to become part of future Loop 303. There may be frontage roads here in the future.

US 60 (Grand Ave): The intersection of Grand Ave and Bell Rd is being completely redone. When finished, a new overpass will carry Bell over Grand and the parallel railroad tracks. Bell is closed at Grand for the next 6 to 8 months.

Other improvements of note:

Sonoran Desert Dr was completed between North Valley Parkway and I-17/Loop 303. Now there is another connection from the neighborhood in the northern outskirts to the current freeway system.

Ramps were opened to connect the north end of AZ 51 to Black Mountain Blvd. This is a surface street north of Loop 101 in the area. It may help with traffic on Cave Creek Rd and Tatum Blvd in the area. If/when Black Mountain is extended, it will connect to the current end of Sonoran Desert Dr at Cave Creek Rd.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on April 12, 2016, 02:07:29 AM
RE: Sonoran Desert Dr...

Is that the original alignment that got taken away thanks to a corrupt Phoenix councilwoman who had lobbyist friends who had property along Dove Valley, so the alignment of the parkway was moved there instead? It was really confusing because there was Sonoran Desert Dr and Sonoran Blvd (Dove Valley renamed) for quite some time until someone pulled their head out of their ass and realized how stupid it was. Sonoran Blvd got changed back to Dove Valley Rd for a significant length of the parkway. It switches names part way according to Google Maps.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: 707 on April 12, 2016, 03:51:03 AM
RE: Sonoran Desert Dr...

Is that the original alignment that got taken away thanks to a corrupt Phoenix councilwoman who had lobbyist friends who had property along Dove Valley, so the alignment of the parkway was moved there instead? It was really confusing because there was Sonoran Desert Dr and Sonoran Blvd (Dove Valley renamed) for quite some time until someone pulled their head out of their ass and realized how stupid it was. Sonoran Blvd got changed back to Dove Valley Rd for a significant length of the parkway. It switches names part way according to Google Maps.

The name switch happens almost the same latitudinal area to the Sonoran Desert Drive that connects with Loop 303. And hopefully, the Loop 303 Sonoran Desert Drive will connect to the pre-existing Dove Valley section further east in the future. There is a stub at the intersection with North Paloma Parkway for Sonoran Desert Drive to continue east.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: 707 on April 12, 2016, 03:59:43 AM
I used a one day free trial of a website that showed Aerial photographs from February 2016. It appears the bridge over Grand Avenue has been fully completed to freeway width and the bridge over El Mirage is pretty much finished as well, but the full opening of the exit ramps at El Mirage haven't occurred yet as far as my knowledge goes and it seems the bridges will not be fully open just yet as the southbound lanes at US 60 are still being paved into existence with freeway grade concrete foundations and an asphalt cover while at the same time, the north and southbound lanes leading across the El Mirage overpass are still being paved into existence as well. On the bright side though, there is only one stoplight remaining on Loop 303 between I-10 and Sonoran Desert Drive/I-17. The lights at El Mirage are currently the last remaining, as the  Grand Avenue ramps are full freeway standard. As one can imagine now, the Grand Avenue interchange is now Exit 119.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on April 15, 2016, 12:02:42 AM
FYI, I just found out that ADOT has exercised another one of its contract extension options with Skyline Products for new full matrix DMS as of yesterday for another full year through July 24, 2017.  I think there is one contract extension option remaining through October 24, 2017.

In the Phoenix area, several new Skyline DMS are in the process of being installed on I-10 from Litchfield Road to 83rd Avenue, as well as on I-17 from Deer Valley to Daisy Mountain Drive, with one currently being installed on Loop 303 at the approach to I-17 and one on US 60 west of SR 74.  Other planned installations for this year include eight on the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway from Dobson Road to Ray Road, one on SR 87 just north of Thomas, and one on US 60 east of SR 73, the latter two most likely being 17x6 foot, 105x27 resolution front access units, rather than 31x8 foot, 125x27 resolution walk-in units used on the freeways.

There are also several other future proposed locations for new DMS in the Valley, however, they probably won't be included in the current contract with Skyline.  Proposed locations include 16 more on I-10 from Loop 202/SR 24 to Baseline (yes, 16 more) and six more from Miller Road to Estrella Parkway, four more on I-17 (one being at the southern terminus on the approach to I-10), five more on Loop 101 (three more on the Agua Fria Freeway and two more on the Price Freeway), six more on the remaining portion of Loop 202 between Higley Road and Apache Trail, and two more on the US 60 Superstition Freeway between Ironwood and Tomahawk.  Other Phoenix area roads proposed to get new DMS in the future include Loop 303 with 26 of them, US 60 Grand Avenue with eight, SR 74 with three, SR 85 with three, SR 87 with four, and SR 88 with one.  ADOT has even plotted out future sites for DMS on some unbuilt freeways, including 12 on the Loop 202 South Mountain Freeway, 14 on the SR 30 I-10 Reliever, and two on the SR 24 Gateway Freeway.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: swbrotha100 on April 15, 2016, 12:19:32 AM
I used a one day free trial of a website that showed Aerial photographs from February 2016. It appears the bridge over Grand Avenue has been fully completed to freeway width and the bridge over El Mirage is pretty much finished as well, but the full opening of the exit ramps at El Mirage haven't occurred yet as far as my knowledge goes and it seems the bridges will not be fully open just yet as the southbound lanes at US 60 are still being paved into existence with freeway grade concrete foundations and an asphalt cover while at the same time, the north and southbound lanes leading across the El Mirage overpass are still being paved into existence as well. On the bright side though, there is only one stoplight remaining on Loop 303 between I-10 and Sonoran Desert Drive/I-17. The lights at El Mirage are currently the last remaining, as the  Grand Avenue ramps are full freeway standard. As one can imagine now, the Grand Avenue interchange is now Exit 119.

From the ADOT website, there may be a shift of thru traffic onto the El Mirage Rd overpass this weekend. The ramps to El Mirage will be closed from Fri night to Mon morning.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on April 15, 2016, 01:54:16 PM
Once ADOT's contract with Skyline Products expires next year, I wonder who will bid for ADOT's next statewide DMS contract.  In the last RFP which Skyline won, the bidders were Skyline, Daktronics, and Digital Traffic Systems, Inc. (the latter who would have provided and maintained DMS made by Adaptive Micro Systems).  Daktronics' bid was over twice that of Skyline, and DTS' bid was deemed non-responsive.

I wonder if there will be any more bidders next year, such as Ledstar or Swarco.

BTW, the South Mountain Freeway will use Skyline DMS as per the requirements in the Design-Build-Maintain agreement document with Connect 202 Partners.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on May 26, 2016, 12:34:22 PM
FYI, I noticed some crews this morning on the westbound onramps for the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway at the Val Vista and the Arizona Avenue interchanges.  I wonder if the FMS installation has started.  I know it was planned for this summer.

New DMS locations on the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway include two between Dobson and Alma School, two between McQueen and Cooper, two on opposite sides of the Val Vista interchange, and two just south of Ray Road. Each pair would have one in each direction.

Proposed future locations on the Loop 202 for new DMS include two between Higley and Recker, one eastbound near Power Road, one southbound near Elliot Road, one northbound near Guadalupe Road, plus one more (southbound) on the Red Mountain Freeway between Broadway and Apache Trail.

Still no word on which interchanges will get ramp meters.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on June 02, 2016, 11:28:48 AM
^

Today I saw crews doing the same at the Gilbert Road interchange.  This makes me want to believe that at least Arizona Avenue, Gilbert Road, and Val Vista will be getting ramp meters.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: swbrotha100 on June 05, 2016, 11:31:30 PM
I have recently traveled the stretch of Loop 303 between Bell and Happy Valley. It looks like most of the major work is done. All the lighting is up and lights are on at night. Still some striping and signage to go. A new SB sign for Surprise city limits. Could this section all be done by the July 4th weekend? Maybe.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: swbrotha100 on June 07, 2016, 11:19:08 PM
ADOT has pics online of the current Bell/Grand construction:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/arizonadot/sets/72157669287578735/
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: swbrotha100 on June 09, 2016, 12:03:18 AM
ADOT explains on a Facebook post why it has the current mile markers posted on Loop 303:

"Basically, the 303 milepost numbers provide flexibility. They are based on milepost 100 being near the intersection of Loop 303 and MC 85, which is the current terminus in the Maricopa Association of Government's (MAG) Regional Transportation Plan. starting with milepost 100 ensures that there would be no negative milepost numbering as MAG, which is responsible for long-range transportation planning within Maricopa County, considers whether Loop 303 should extend further south."
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: pumpkineater2 on June 10, 2016, 12:43:30 AM
I saw today that a stretch of loop-303 will be closed until Wednesday because it is being used to film the next Transformers movie.
http://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/arizona-news/156668277-story (http://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/arizona-news/156668277-story)
  My Brother inlaw told me that they were also filming behind the warehouse he works at in north Phoenix. Interesting.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on June 10, 2016, 09:17:00 AM
FYI, I just noticed yesterday that logo signs have finally been installed on SR 143 and the inner portion of I-10.  Haven't checked out the southern portion of I-17.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: swbrotha100 on June 19, 2016, 10:41:14 AM
Loop 101 in the Scottsdale area now has an extra lane SB from Shea Blvd to Loop 202. NB should be finished in the next week or so. Final striping and new signage is ongoing.

For the future Loop 202, more businesses have been closing or have closed around the future freeway path. Most noticeable is around 59th Ave going south from I-10. The only commercial property on Pecos Rd (the church) has signs and construction work going on at its future location at 48th St and Frye Rd. Traffic barricades now block the areas where houses were torn down in Ahwatukee.

Loop 303 should be getting final striping over the next week or so from Bell Rd to Happy Valley Pkwy. Also around I-10, stretches of the EB and WB frontage roads are closed for awhile. Major work on the WB-to-SB and NB-to-WB ramps is visible from I-10 or McDowell Rd. Cotton Lane is a long, active work zone from I-10 to south of Van Buren St.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on June 23, 2016, 03:28:57 PM
It appears that I was correct in that the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway Management System (FMS Phase 14B) has started as of late last month.  At the onramps from Alma School to Val Vista it appears that some conduits have been installed for the CCTV cameras as well as possibly for ramp meters.  Also, as of this week, there have been portions of the shoulders that have been staked with multiple flags, and they appear to be located at the future DMS locations indicated on ADOT's ITS map.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on June 26, 2016, 04:48:02 PM
From various places online...

The 303 is now fully open between Grand Ave and Happy Valley Parkway. There will be occasional restrictions as they put the finishing touches on things, but the 303 is now full freeway between I-17 and I-10.

As for I-10, soil testing is now happening between 51st and 59th Ave in preparation for the future South Mountain Freeway interchange.

As for the 202, various housekeeping projects are underway all along the route for soil testing, archaeological investigation, and more.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on June 27, 2016, 01:55:21 PM
As of last week, I got a response from ADOT where the ramp meters on the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway will be installed:

I'm a little surprised that Val Vista Westbound isn't getting them.  Perhaps it could be due to the fact that Gilbert Road is more than one mile away, giving more time to merge onto the freeway.

Also, I noticed some of the bases for the tubular gantries for the DMS have been installed in two places (one in each direction in the same area).
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: pumpkineater2 on June 28, 2016, 08:10:39 PM
I saw some soil drilling going on along I-10 near 59th avenue this morning.

I'm looking forward to seeing the transformation of this section of I-10 as the 202 interchange gets built, but at the same time I dread the traffic problems that the construction will cause on such a busy freeway. I doubt that many drivers who rely on that stretch on a daily basis have any clue what's coming. :-D
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kdk on June 28, 2016, 09:25:30 PM
I saw some soil drilling going on along I-10 near 59th avenue this morning.

I'm looking forward to seeing the transformation of this section of I-10 as the 202 interchange gets built, but at the same time I dread the traffic problems that the construction will cause on such a busy freeway. I doubt that many drivers who rely on that stretch on a daily basis have any clue what's coming. :-D

I was thinking the same thing.  For such a big project on such a busy freeway I haven't heard a thing in the news at all still.  I don't use that freeway that much myself, but part of that is from 3pm on it's already full on a weekday and I avoid it if need be.  I can't imagine what it will be like.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: hm insulators on June 30, 2016, 04:49:56 PM
That section of the I-10 is going to be a major snarl when they build the interchange with the 202, and even after construction is finished, there's going to be that much more traffic on the 10 between 59th Avenue and Loop 101.

I still say they should have tied the Loop 202 into the I-10/Loop 101 interchange; it makes a lot more sense! But road engineers aren't exactly full of common sense.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: swbrotha100 on June 30, 2016, 08:38:28 PM
Many people would have liked to see the Loop 202 South Mountain tie into the Loop 101/I-10 interchange, but the city of Tolleson would never have allowed it. Besides, it's too late now, as the demolition process of properties is underway in the area of 59th Ave and I-10. I would hope that ADOT would at least consider adding a lane on I-10 in each direction from Loop 101 to the I-17 stack. Frontage roads are planned from 51st Ave to 67th Ave.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kdk on July 01, 2016, 08:22:47 PM
Many people would have liked to see the Loop 202 South Mountain tie into the Loop 101/I-10 interchange, but the city of Tolleson would never have allowed it. Besides, it's too late now, as the demolition process of properties is underway in the area of 59th Ave and I-10. I would hope that ADOT would at least consider adding a lane on I-10 in each direction from Loop 101 to the I-17 stack. Frontage roads are planned from 51st Ave to 67th Ave.

Yeah, I recall when the alignment was being decided and even reconsidered that was one of the major considerations, the costs and basically destroying Tolleson were the two major reasons. 
That's going to make pressure to build AZ-30 increase from the 202 to the 303- at least that can take off a lot of pressure off I-10 but I think its still another 10 years away if I'm correct.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: swbrotha100 on July 01, 2016, 10:11:35 PM


The 303 is now fully open between Grand Ave and Happy Valley Parkway. There will be occasional restrictions as they put the finishing touches on things, but the 303 is now full freeway between I-17 and I-10.


Checked out that new stretch of the 303 this afternoon. Lane striping is done. Speed limit is now 65. A few interchanges (Happy Valley, Bell, Greenway) have the blue logo signs that some people here like. I think landscaping and other minor work is all that's gonna be done from here on out.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: pumpkineater2 on July 02, 2016, 09:24:07 PM
Checked out that new stretch of the 303 this afternoon. Lane striping is done. Speed limit is now 65. A few interchanges (Happy Valley, Bell, Greenway) have the blue logo signs that some people here like. I think landscaping and other minor work is all that's gonna be done from here on out.

 So is the interchange at El Mirage complete now too?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: swbrotha100 on July 03, 2016, 07:01:20 AM
Checked out that new stretch of the 303 this afternoon. Lane striping is done. Speed limit is now 65. A few interchanges (Happy Valley, Bell, Greenway) have the blue logo signs that some people here like. I think landscaping and other minor work is all that's gonna be done from here on out.

 So is the interchange at El Mirage complete now too?

Any work left on El Mirage at Loop 303 is minor. There are traffic signal poles but no traffic signals, just stop signs at the El Mirage ramps.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on July 11, 2016, 12:00:14 PM
If the ruling goes as scheduled, this should be the big week for the ultimate fate of the South Mountain Freeway.  I have faith in the judge and God that ADOT comes out victorious.  My concern is that the judge might play the race card by ruling against ADOT because she is Native American.  In addition, the planned appeal in the 9th Circuit is also concerning because the 9th Circuit is very liberal. It is very unfortunate that Arizona has to be part of the 9th Circuit, and even Doug Ducey agrees that Arizona should be in the neighboring 10th Circuit instead or be part of a new 12th Circuit.  The proposed 12th Circuit includes Arizona, Nevada, Idaho, and Montana in its most restrictive proposal, with most proposals also including Alaska and some even including Washington and Oregon (leaving the 9th Circuit with only California and Hawaii).
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on July 13, 2016, 03:27:29 PM
From what I read, the final ruling is expected to be announced this Friday. I am very anxious to know how the judge will rule. Will she do what is right for the Phoenix area by ruling in ADOT's favor, or will she play the race card by ruling in PARC's and GRIC's favor? I pray to God that she rules for the former.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Plutonic Panda on July 17, 2016, 12:40:56 AM
What happened?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on July 18, 2016, 10:57:52 AM
What happened?

Unfortunately, there is still no news on the ruling.  Hopefully sometime this week we hear something about it.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Plutonic Panda on July 19, 2016, 01:53:32 AM
Thanks for the response. I hope to see this freeway approved.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on August 02, 2016, 04:42:51 PM
As of today, the City of Phoenix has turned over the ROW for the South Mountain Freeway to ADOT:
https://www.azdot.gov/media/News/news-release/2016/08/02/right-of-way-formalized-for-future-south-mountain-freeway

Pecos Road west of I-10, and 59th Avenue south of I-10 are now officially designated as part of Loop 202, even though the freeway isn't complete yet.

I hope a ruling comes soon and ADOT comes out victorious.  The ruling was supposed to be last month; I am not sure what is causing the delay.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on August 03, 2016, 05:16:40 PM
Is it possible the ruling happened and because the groups fighting it lost there's just nobody talking about it anymore? Like everyone is just done and moved on? Also, it seems like all the fighting has kind of quieted since the homes have been demolished. Only thing left is the big church, and construction is already going on their new location. ADOT is working with them on getting them into their new place and letting them essentially be the "last one out" from the freeway corridor.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on August 03, 2016, 06:22:55 PM
Is it possible the ruling happened and because the groups fighting it lost there's just nobody talking about it anymore? Like everyone is just done and moved on? Also, it seems like all the fighting has kind of quieted since the homes have been demolished. Only thing left is the big church, and construction is already going on their new location. ADOT is working with them on getting them into their new place and letting them essentially be the "last one out" from the freeway corridor.

Doubt it.  PARC has confirmed that they plan to take the case to the 9th Circuit of the U.S. Court of Appeals, and there would have been some publicity from them if the ruling has already happened.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: coatimundi on August 03, 2016, 07:20:29 PM
Phoenicians are pretty ravenous about freeway news, so I doubt this would be ignored. PARC has said nothing about it either recently.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: compdude787 on August 04, 2016, 12:51:37 AM
I'm surprised we haven't heard anything about this ruling yet. But, the wheels of justice move very slowly....
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on August 08, 2016, 11:32:52 PM
One thing to wonder is when will ADOT complete the remaining HOV lanes on the Loop 202 (specifically from Gilbert Road to Broadway on the SanTan Freeway).  The portion of the SanTan Freeway between Gilbert Road and Val Vista is a major chokepoint in the afternoon rush.  It isn't mentioned in ADOT's 2017-2021 construction plans, so I don't see it happening for a while unfortunately.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on August 14, 2016, 04:26:45 PM
Per ADOT, they are pouring the bridge deck and building the retaining walls for the approaches for the Bell Rd/Grand Ave project. Still shooting for it to be open by November (just 3 months away).
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on August 15, 2016, 12:03:42 PM
I just got a response from ADOT, and here are a few updates on SanTan Freeway projects:

Also, ADOT has put out an RFP for a new DMS contract, which is supposed to begin next year after Skyline's contract expires.  In the pre-proposal conference, Daktronics, Adaptive, and SES America were present.  Interestingly, Skyline was absent from this conference.  However, I am not sure if attending the conference was mandatory or voluntary.  If the latter, perhaps Skyline felt like they didn't need to attend since they have the existing contract, thus they didn't have any questions to ask.

One thing that I noticed new with this RFP is the requirement to supply full size DMS with both walk-in and front access cabinets.  The existing contract with Skyline only specifies walk-in cabinets for full size DMS used on freeways.  Perhaps the addition of full size models with front access cabinets could be for divided rural expressways that aren't necessarily built to full freeway standards.  Another possibility could be to replace some existing FDS Sylvia DMS while retaining the existing support structures (which may not be able to handle the weight of a walk-in cabinet), however, considering that ADOT has been refurbishing many of their Sylvia DMS with SES America's LED retrofit package, I would be surprised if that is the case.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kdk on August 19, 2016, 08:19:24 PM
Haven't found any articles yet, but was just watching the local news and they just broke the news that all lawsuits were dismissed on the 202 and construction will start next month finally.  Must have just been announced, was on ABC 15.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on August 20, 2016, 12:06:57 PM
Haven't found any articles yet, but was just watching the local news and they just broke the news that all lawsuits were dismissed on the 202 and construction will start next month finally.  Must have just been announced, was on ABC 15.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/5hHOBKJ8lw9OM/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: swbrotha100 on August 20, 2016, 06:15:09 PM
Haven't found any articles yet, but was just watching the local news and they just broke the news that all lawsuits were dismissed on the 202 and construction will start next month finally.  Must have just been announced, was on ABC 15.

http://azdot.gov/media/News/news-release/2016/08/19/adot-federal-highway-administration-prevail-in-south-mountain-freeway-lawsuit

This is great news. Hopefully all the lawsuits will stop and we can start talking about actual construction of this section of Loop 202. From what I've been reading, planned construction will start on both ends of the project (I-10/59th Ave area and I-10/Loop 202 Santan area) and will eventually meet in the middle, somewhere in the area of South Mountain Park. Cross your fingers, the construction will pick up in September.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: swbrotha100 on September 08, 2016, 05:51:01 PM
Construction starts Monday, 9/12 on the Loop 202 South Mountain section. It may not be much, but it will be from the current I-10/Loop 202 Santan interchange and start working its way west.

http://azdot.gov/media/News/news-release/2016/09/06/public-input-essential-as-south-mountain-freeway-moves-toward-construction
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on September 08, 2016, 06:16:39 PM
ADOT's interactive ITS map has just been updated:

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on September 29, 2016, 03:35:00 AM
Construction continues at Bell Rd and Grand. But there's still an odd gap in the girders and no work on the west side approach. It's supposed to be open to traffic sometime in the next 60 days. Something seems of and nobody is saying anything.

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: 707 on October 06, 2016, 06:29:22 PM
Construction continues at Bell Rd and Grand. But there's still an odd gap in the girders and no work on the west side approach. It's supposed to be open to traffic sometime in the next 60 days. Something seems of and nobody is saying anything.


That's the space where the entrance/exit ramps are supposed to go. I recently got a text update from ADOT stating they were starting the construction of said ramps.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on October 07, 2016, 10:29:35 AM
Thanks, I was just expecting it to be done as a bridge and not as basically a walled-in dirt embankment. Doing it that way, yeah that fits the timeline much better.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on October 07, 2016, 03:03:10 PM
According to ADOT's Weekend Freeway Travel Advisory, the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway Eastbound will be closed between Loop 101/Price and Cooper tonight from 10 PM to 6 PM tomorrow for DMS installation.  I presume next we could be seeing similar closures every weekend this month to install the DMS.  Perhaps next week it could be the same portion westbound, or eastbound between Cooper and Ray.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: 707 on October 08, 2016, 08:42:36 PM
Thanks, I was just expecting it to be done as a bridge and not as basically a walled-in dirt embankment. Doing it that way, yeah that fits the timeline much better.

Anytime! I was expecting it to be a bridge too.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on October 10, 2016, 01:07:01 PM
I just noticed this morning two new Skyline full matrix DMS installed on the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway eastbound between Loop 101 and Cooper this morning. I presume there will be more installed this weekend.

Now FMS 14C (the remaining portion of the SanTan Freeway between Ray and Broadway) might use a different manufacturer of DMS, since Skyline's current contract expires July of next year the the construction contract is supposed to go out for bid in the fourth quarter of FY17. I know Daktronics and Adaptive have submitted bids for the new contract, not sure if Skyline did as well.

The South Mountain Freeway, on the other hand, will use Skyline per the P3 agreement with Connect 202 Partners.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on October 13, 2016, 01:44:58 PM
Looks like this weekend there will be another closure of the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway for DMS installation, this time between Cooper and Price/101 in the Westbound direction.

EDIT: The new DMS are up.  This leaves only the portion between Cooper and Ray in both directions for the current phase.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: frozen on October 27, 2016, 03:01:49 AM
Thanks, I was just expecting it to be done as a bridge and not as basically a walled-in dirt embankment. Doing it that way, yeah that fits the timeline much better.

Anytime! I was expecting it to be a bridge too.

(https://c4.staticflickr.com/9/8597/29363569243_ac0eaf404f_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/LJKY8e)Bell Road and Grand Ave (US 60) September 27, 2016 (https://flic.kr/p/LJKY8e) by Arizona Department of Transportation (https://www.flickr.com/photos/arizonadot/), on Flickr

You can see the embankment getting started in this picture.. It'll be interesting to see them finish it all in less than a month. I have my doubts to be honest.

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on October 27, 2016, 10:16:21 AM
Thanks, I was just expecting it to be done as a bridge and not as basically a walled-in dirt embankment. Doing it that way, yeah that fits the timeline much better.

Anytime! I was expecting it to be a bridge too.

(https://c4.staticflickr.com/9/8597/29363569243_ac0eaf404f_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/LJKY8e)Bell Road and Grand Ave (US 60) September 27, 2016 (https://flic.kr/p/LJKY8e) by Arizona Department of Transportation (https://www.flickr.com/photos/arizonadot/), on Flickr

You can see the embankment getting started in this picture.. It'll be interesting to see them finish it all in less than a month. I have my doubts to be honest.

Geeze and I almost went down Grand to see this.  Looks like they fell way behind on the built.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on October 27, 2016, 12:29:49 PM
An update on the DMS on the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway; two additional DMS have been installed on the portion between Gilbert Road and Ray in the eastbound direction last weekend.  Interestingly though there are no plans for a closure this weekend to install them in the westbound direction.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on October 29, 2016, 02:47:38 AM
Thanks, I was just expecting it to be done as a bridge and not as basically a walled-in dirt embankment. Doing it that way, yeah that fits the timeline much better.

Anytime! I was expecting it to be a bridge too.

(https://c4.staticflickr.com/9/8597/29363569243_ac0eaf404f_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/LJKY8e)Bell Road and Grand Ave (US 60) September 27, 2016 (https://flic.kr/p/LJKY8e) by Arizona Department of Transportation (https://www.flickr.com/photos/arizonadot/), on Flickr

You can see the embankment getting started in this picture.. It'll be interesting to see them finish it all in less than a month. I have my doubts to be honest.

To be fair, that picture is a month old. If all they're doing is stacking dirt, it would go a lot faster.

Anything more recent than that?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on November 07, 2016, 01:26:09 PM
Going to the ProcureAZ website, it looks like Daktronics has won back ADOT's DMS contract after losing it to Skyline in 2012. Still no word on the bid tabulations, although I do know that Adaptive had also submitted a bid.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on November 14, 2016, 04:57:58 PM
Note that ADOT's new contract with Daktronics appears to actually be an open market purchase order, rather than a long term blanket agreement, with the contract lasting for one year.  I presume this order should be to cover the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway between Ray and Broadway, I-10 between Perryville and Bullard, I-17 north of Anthem, and Rural DMS Phase 11, all of which have completed design.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kdk on November 15, 2016, 05:42:14 PM
I saw that Bell/Grand is expected to be complete next week, or at least complete enough to be open.  Didn't look possible when I was there two weeks ago, but that's what they said today-
http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2016/11/15/adot-readies-bell-grand-interchange-for-opening.html
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: pumpkineater2 on November 15, 2016, 06:35:17 PM
In other news, I-10 is set to be expanded in the west valley:http://www.westvalleyview.com/articles/2016/11/09/mag-oks-i-10-expansion-between-verrado-way-sr85 (http://www.westvalleyview.com/articles/2016/11/09/mag-oks-i-10-expansion-between-verrado-way-sr85)
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on November 15, 2016, 10:51:19 PM
With all the other work happening around the Valley, it's becoming very strange and obvious that there's no plans to build new bridges over I-17 at Happy Valley and Pinnacle Peak. Everything around those two has been rebuilt, expanded, etc but those two bridges never got addressed.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on November 16, 2016, 09:45:14 AM
A video of a loop through several Downtown Freeways that I shot back in April of this year.  Phoenix has awesome freeways.

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on November 16, 2016, 01:49:27 PM
A video of a loop through several Downtown Freeways that I shot back in April of this year.  Phoenix has awesome freeways.


Cool video.  Note that about a month after you took this video, ADOT actually added a few logo signs on the portions of I-10 and I-17 you were on.  When ADOT expanded the state's logo sign program to urban areas, they focused first on the more suburban freeways before installing them in the inner city, which is why they were present in your video on US 60, Loop 101, and Loop 202, but not on I-10 or I-17 (I-17 didn't have any south of Dunlap at the time, and on I-10 they were installed west of 35th Avenue and east of Baseline).
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on November 30, 2016, 10:13:15 PM
FYI, according to AZ511.gov, the last two DMS in the current FMS phase for the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway are planned to go up on the weekend from December 9 to 11.  These should probably be the last Skyline full matrix DMS installed in the Phoenix area and possibly the last statewide other than the South Mountain Freeway (not sure if Rural DMS Phase 11 installation will begin before of after Skyline's contract expires, plus there is one more additional DMS installation for the Tucson FMS near the new Ina Road interchange).  Starting next year future installations will be Daktronics full matrix models (which has the contract up to 2021), except on the South Mountain Freeway which explicitly specifies that Connect 202 Partners installs Skyline DMS per the design-build-maintain P3 agreement.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: JKRhodes on December 21, 2016, 10:23:08 PM
With all the other work happening around the Valley, it's becoming very strange and obvious that there's no plans to build new bridges over I-17 at Happy Valley and Pinnacle Peak. Everything around those two has been rebuilt, expanded, etc but those two bridges never got addressed.

Pinnacle Peak,  I can somewhat understand as it serves a fairly short and narrow corridor, with topography, airport, and the juvenile center somewhat limiting future development.

Happy Valley, OTOH needs an update in the worst way. It's ridiculous to see a two-lane bridge serving what has become such a major corridor, especially when the interchange is flanked by six-lane boulevards on either side.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on December 22, 2016, 09:46:10 PM
It also limits the widening ability of I-17 as well, as the lanes are pushed right up against the bridge supports for the overpasses. Coming south, literally as soon as you get past Pinnacle Peak you gain literally double the lanes (3+HOV to 6+HOV). North of Happy Valley, the entire thing is basically ready for a 5+HOV configuration with only minimal work. With a future full interchange with the 303 at some point down the road, a 5+HOV configuration to the 303 would be stupendous for the flow of traffic. But with the overpasses still at Pinnacle Peak and Happy Valley in their current configuration, everything else is pointless unless they intentionally want to create a choke point at those two roads.

With all the other work happening around the Valley, it's becoming very strange and obvious that there's no plans to build new bridges over I-17 at Happy Valley and Pinnacle Peak. Everything around those two has been rebuilt, expanded, etc but those two bridges never got addressed.

Pinnacle Peak,  I can somewhat understand as it serves a fairly short and narrow corridor, with topography, airport, and the juvenile center somewhat limiting future development.

Happy Valley, OTOH needs an update in the worst way. It's ridiculous to see a two-lane bridge serving what has become such a major corridor, especially when the interchange is flanked by six-lane boulevards on either side.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on February 22, 2017, 12:16:05 PM
This morning I saw one of the new Skyline DMS on the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway displaying a test message after being dark for several months now.  This tells me that they are almost ready to be fully operational.

Later this year we should see new Daktronics full matrix DMS be installed on the remaining portion of the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway between Ray and Broadway.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on March 06, 2017, 10:56:54 AM
It looks like ADOT might be replacing the exit gore signs on the Loop 101 Price Freeway with the tall narrow type found on I-17 and the Loop 202 Red Mountain Freeway between Loop 101 and Gilbert Road.  I saw some tall posts on the exit gores on the Loop 101 Price Freeway southbound just right behind the existing exit gore signs.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on March 09, 2017, 07:50:32 PM
The Loop 101 Price Freeway has been getting several new signs lately.  The new narrow exit gore signs have been installed in the southbound direction and will soon go up in the northbound direction (the posts are already installed; the signs should go up soon).  Also, the button copy city limits signs have been replaced as well in the southbound direction and will soon be replaced in the northbound direction as well.  These new signs are not in Clearview; they are in FHWA Series E (with the exit gore sign for Exit 61A in Series D).  Also, the FDS Sylvia fiber-optic DMS just south of US 60 in the southbound direction has been refurbished with SES America's LED retrofit package as of this week.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on March 13, 2017, 05:05:08 PM
It looks like the button copy signs on the Loop 101 Price Freeway may be on their last legs.  They were all replaced with new retroreflective signs (in FHWA Series E) in the southbound direction this past weekend between the Loop 202 Red Mountain Freeway and US 60, and according to AZ511.gov, this weekend there will be a closure for sign installation southbound between US 60 and the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway.  Northbound shouldn't be too far behind.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: compdude787 on March 14, 2017, 03:30:32 PM
Oh, so they're no longer using Clearview, huh? That's good, I was never really a fan of Clearview. It wasn't like a horrible font, but I'm just more used to the Highway Gothic font and see that more as THE highway sign font.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on March 14, 2017, 07:20:52 PM
Oh, so they're no longer using Clearview, huh? That's good, I was never really a fan of Clearview. It wasn't like a horrible font, but I'm just more used to the Highway Gothic font and see that more as THE highway sign font.

Yes, but instead of Series E Modified they are using plain Series E on freeways.  Regular roads are now using Series D, and street blades are now using Series C.  Width-constrained signs may use narrower versions of Highway Gothic.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Zonie on March 16, 2017, 07:53:10 PM
New flyover view of the South Mountain Freeway is up.


Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: DJStephens on March 23, 2017, 03:45:39 PM
Oh, so they're no longer using Clearview, huh? That's good, I was never really a fan of Clearview. It wasn't like a horrible font, but I'm just more used to the Highway Gothic font and see that more as THE highway sign font.

Was on Interstate 10 between Tucson and Phoenix last week.  Some brand new signage had Clearview font, and some had traditional font.  So perhaps they are installing both at this time? 
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on March 27, 2017, 01:03:27 AM
I have noticed more signs today on the Loop 101 Price Freeway in FHWA Series E (non-Modified).  Some of them even replaced Clearview signs.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on April 03, 2017, 02:44:55 PM
As for the new DMS on the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway, it looks like the acceptance test may be delayed but might now be advancing, since I saw one of them actually displaying a test message in lowercase letters. 

After all, ADOT's required acceptance test for new DMS installations are that they function without any issues for 30 calendar days.  If a minor failure occurs, the 30 day period is suspended until the issue is corrected, and then 24 hours are added to the period after the issue is corrected.  If a major failure occurs, the 30 day period resets to zero after the issue is corrected.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Zonie on April 03, 2017, 02:50:05 PM
As for the new DMS on the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway, it looks like the acceptance test may be delayed but might now be advancing, since I saw one of them actually displaying a test message in lowercase letters. 

After all, ADOT's required acceptance test for new DMS installations are that they function without any issues for 30 calendar days.  If a minor failure occurs, the 30 day period is suspended until the issue is corrected, and then 24 hours are added to the period after the issue is corrected.  If a major failure occurs, the 30 day period resets to zero after the issue is corrected.

I noticed that yesterday, on Santan WB not far from the 101 interchange. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on April 03, 2017, 03:33:30 PM
As for the new DMS on the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway, it looks like the acceptance test may be delayed but might now be advancing, since I saw one of them actually displaying a test message in lowercase letters. 

After all, ADOT's required acceptance test for new DMS installations are that they function without any issues for 30 calendar days.  If a minor failure occurs, the 30 day period is suspended until the issue is corrected, and then 24 hours are added to the period after the issue is corrected.  If a major failure occurs, the 30 day period resets to zero after the issue is corrected.

I noticed that yesterday, on Santan WB not far from the 101 interchange.


I wonder if once the full installation for the freeway management system for the Santan Freeway is complete we will start to see travel times displayed on the DMS.  There is still the remaining portion between Ray and Broadway, which will use Daktronics full matrix DMS. Construction on that phase of the freeway management system should begin later this year.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kurumi on April 03, 2017, 10:37:59 PM
Regarding the public-private partnership for the final segment of loop 202 (link (https://azdot.gov/media/News/news-release/2015/12/28/south-mountain-freeway-to-be-constructed-as-public-private-partnership)) ... what's the benefit of this non-tolled road for the private developer?
Quote
This is the first highway public-private partnership in Arizona. While the South Mountain Freeway will not be a toll road, the public-private partnership will allow ADOT to construct the project at an accelerated pace and at a lower cost.

After an unsolicited public-private partnership proposal was submitted in 2013, ADOT sought proposals from qualified teams vying to develop the 22-mile-long freeway, which is the last piece of the Loop 202 system and a critical direct link between the West Valley and East Valley. From the five initial proposals submitted, three finalists were selected after a qualifications assessment to advance in the selection process.

...

All three teams participating as finalists in the process were encouraged to use innovation and develop alternative concepts to save time and money, while adhering to all environmental commitments. The goal is to create an innovative public-private partnership that will have a private developer design and construct the freeway, as well as maintain the new highway for 30 years.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on May 22, 2017, 12:01:17 PM
Looks like ADOT will be accelerating its East Valley road projects:
http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/news/billion-dollar-windfall-boosts-east-valley-freeway-upgrades/article_f02d75ba-3ce1-11e7-b747-a7384b35a916.html

Here is a list of the projects:


Note that the initial design for SR 24 will in fact not be a full freeway, but will be a super-arterial. It may be converted into a full freeway some time in the future.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: howlincoyote2k1 on May 22, 2017, 05:56:08 PM
Looks like ADOT will be accelerating its East Valley road projects:
http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/news/billion-dollar-windfall-boosts-east-valley-freeway-upgrades/article_f02d75ba-3ce1-11e7-b747-a7384b35a916.html

Here is a list of the projects:

  • Expansion of I-10 between Pecos Road and the I-17 split.
  • Widening the Loop 101 Price Freeway by one lane each way between US 60 and the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway.
  • Extension of the third lane and HOV lane on the US 60 Superstition Freeway from Crismon Road to Meridian Road.
  • Adding one lane each way on the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway between Gilbert Road and SR 24.
  • Extending the third lane on the Loop 202 Red Mountain Freeway from Broadway to US 60.
  • Construction of a new interchange on the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway at Lindsay Road.
  • Extension of SR 24 from Ellsworth to Ironwood.

Note that the initial design for SR 24 will in fact not be a full freeway, but will be a super-arterial. It may be converted into a full freeway some time in the future.

My family and I lived in Ahwatukee back in 1996-97 when the initial widening of I-10 was taking place. Up until 1997, that stretch was just two lanes in each direction. Perfectly conveniently, we all moved away about a month after the project was finished. And now they're going to widen it again. Not saying it's not needed, but it makes me feel old, that's for sure.

Glad to see some of these other projects get going, too. Some of the 3 lane/3+HOV lane freeways really get backed up pretty bad these days and that extra through lane will be super helpful. The sooner they can get that L202 South Mountain interchange finished with I-10, the better, because that is going to be an absolute disaster in the meantime while it gets built.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: mapman1071 on May 23, 2017, 02:39:47 AM
Looks like ADOT will be accelerating its East Valley road projects:
http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/news/billion-dollar-windfall-boosts-east-valley-freeway-upgrades/article_f02d75ba-3ce1-11e7-b747-a7384b35a916.html

Here is a list of the projects:

  • Expansion of I-10 between Pecos Road and the I-17 split.
  • Widening the Loop 101 Price Freeway by one lane each way between US 60 and the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway.
  • Extension of the third lane and HOV lane on the US 60 Superstition Freeway from Crismon Road to Meridian Road.
  • Adding one lane each way on the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway between Gilbert Road and SR 24.
  • Extending the third lane on the Loop 202 Red Mountain Freeway from Broadway to US 60.
  • Construction of a new interchange on the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway at Lindsay Road.
  • Extension of SR 24 from Ellsworth to Ironwood.

Note that the initial design for SR 24 will in fact not be a full freeway, but will be a super-arterial. It may be converted into a full freeway some time in the future.

The I-10 plan has been in the works for a few years, the plan  Local/Express/HOV 6/5/1/1/5/6 with a redesign of Exits 153, 153A & 153B 48th Street SB/AZ 143NB/Broadway Road-52nd Street
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on May 23, 2017, 01:35:34 PM
An update on the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway FMS project, the new dynamic message signs are actually now in their System Acceptance Test according to an email that I got from ADOT.  This means that they are operational, but for the first 30 days of operations the orange signs remain on the posts to check for any problems in day-to-day operations.  A minor problem stops the clock until the problem is fixed and adds one day to the test after the clock is resumed, while a major problem restarts the clock to day zero.  The previous test from February through April when they were displaying the "SIGN UNDER TEST" messages was actually the Subsystem Acceptance Test, which was testing the signs individually for problems.  Once the System Acceptance Test is complete (which should be very soon unless there was a major problem), the orange signs on the posts will be taken down.

Also, I got confirmation that there are plans to display travel times on some of the DMS on the SanTan Freeway, however, the email didn't give me a timeframe on when we should start seeing them.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on June 09, 2017, 02:45:43 AM
So I found this interesting. Apparently Main St/Apache Trail (old US 60 before the Superstition was complete for you long time Arizonans) is referred to by ADOT as US 60X. What exactly that means, I have no idea.

https://www.azdot.gov/mobile/media/news/2017/06/06/public-meetings-scheduled-on-study-of-us-60x-in-mesa
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on June 09, 2017, 07:55:43 AM
So I found this interesting. Apparently Main St/Apache Trail (old US 60 before the Superstition was complete for you long time Arizonans) is referred to by ADOT as US 60X. What exactly that means, I have no idea.

https://www.azdot.gov/mobile/media/news/2017/06/06/public-meetings-scheduled-on-study-of-us-60x-in-mesa

ADOT still owns some of the mileage of the surface alignment of US 60 and hasn't signed it as anything since it isn't enough to make it a decent signed route.  I'd still like to see maybe a US 60 BS signed on the old US 60/70/80/89 alignment one day since it isn't broken up by freeway development.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on June 09, 2017, 05:10:19 PM
There are in fact two discontinuous segments of unsigned US 60X.  The western segment is located on Grand Avenue between Thomas Road and 18th Avenue, while the eastern segment is located on Main Street/Apache Trail between Sossaman Road and Meridian Drive (the Pinal County Line).
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on June 13, 2017, 08:43:16 PM

I just came back from Puerto Rico today, and I have noticed that the orange "SIGN UNDER TEST" signs on the posts of the dynamic message signs on the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway have finally been taken down, which means the System Acceptance Test is complete and that the signs are fully operational.  Unfortunately still no travel times being displayed on them.


The next phase of installation of DMS on Loop 202 will be between Ray and Broadway.  They will be full matrix models made by Daktronics.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on July 06, 2017, 09:26:08 PM

Somewhat related, here is a video about ADOT's DMS retrofit program:

https://www.facebook.com/AZDOT/videos/1557064511031913/
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on July 06, 2017, 11:33:43 PM
Has anyone taken any pictures of the construction progress on the South Mountain Freeway? Or does ADOT have an album that they update?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ztonyg on July 13, 2017, 05:45:15 PM
Looks like ADOT is finally going to replace the bridges and interchanges at I-17 and Pinnacle Peak Rd and I-17 and Happy Valley Rd.

I-17 and Happy Valley will get the first Diverging Diamond in the Phoenix area.

https://www.azdot.gov/projects/central-district-projects/i-17-ti-reconstruction-happy-valley-rd-and-pinnacle-peak-rd
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on July 13, 2017, 07:21:19 PM
The Loop 202 South Mountain Freeway is also getting a DDI.

Also, for the new interchange at the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway and Lindsay, it is now being recommended to be built as a full diamond interchange, instead of the previous proposal as a west half diamond interchange.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on July 14, 2017, 04:19:43 AM
About 20 damn years too late!! I've always wondered if there was some back story as to why these two always got skipped with everything else on 17 being rebuilt and expanded both north and south of here.

Also, underpass bridges? As in they will go under 17? That sounds like a hell of a project if that's the case. Also the removal of the Happy Valley roundabouts is interesting. Those were the first in the entire Phoenix area if not all of Arizona if I remember correctly.

Looks like ADOT is finally going to replace the bridges and interchanges at I-17 and Pinnacle Peak Rd and I-17 and Happy Valley Rd.

I-17 and Happy Valley will get the first Diverging Diamond in the Phoenix area.

https://www.azdot.gov/projects/central-district-projects/i-17-ti-reconstruction-happy-valley-rd-and-pinnacle-peak-rd
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Zonie on July 19, 2017, 04:46:02 PM
A little more on the roundabout replacement at I-17/Happy Valley.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix-traffic/2017/07/19/adot-may-replace-roundabouts-diverging-diamond-design-interchange/490345001/
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: frozen on July 19, 2017, 09:27:06 PM
Speaking of Phoenix Highways, anyone got any news or information about Northern Parkway east of Dysart? It has been delayed so much I m starting to think Maricopa County is slacking off...
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: compdude787 on July 19, 2017, 10:49:16 PM
A little more on the roundabout replacement at I-17/Happy Valley.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix-traffic/2017/07/19/adot-may-replace-roundabouts-diverging-diamond-design-interchange/490345001/

How will the DDI be able to accommodate traffic going straight on the frontage roads?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on July 20, 2017, 02:03:07 AM
Speaking of Phoenix Highways, anyone got any news or information about Northern Parkway east of Dysart? It has been delayed so much I m starting to think Maricopa County is slacking off...

Pretty sure that project is pretty much dead for anytime in the next 10 years. The cities don't want to put the money up. Curious if ADOT might someday see value in it and pick it up?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kdk on July 20, 2017, 03:46:25 PM
Speaking of Phoenix Highways, anyone got any news or information about Northern Parkway east of Dysart? It has been delayed so much I m starting to think Maricopa County is slacking off...

Pretty sure that project is pretty much dead for anytime in the next 10 years. The cities don't want to put the money up. Curious if ADOT might someday see value in it and pick it up?

I know they haven't done much on it, and I haven't found a more recent article other than some showing it in the budgets for FY 2018, but it appears construction will resume in September of this year-

http://www.glendalestar.com/news/article_d3dd6c92-c0bf-11e6-bec8-27e0df551d02.html

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: JKRhodes on July 23, 2017, 04:44:30 PM
A little more on the roundabout replacement at I-17/Happy Valley.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix-traffic/2017/07/19/adot-may-replace-roundabouts-diverging-diamond-design-interchange/490345001/

How will the DDI be able to accommodate traffic going straight on the frontage roads?

Could have an extra phase like some SPUI's with frontage roads do... Based on the visualization ADOT Borrowed from Illinois for its news release, however, it appears frontage road traffic will be forced to turn.

A recent DDI near Austin, Texas, OTOH, incorporates U-Turn lanes and Frontage Road Bypass lanes into the design, but that's Texas. They're known for that kind of stuff:  http://www.txdot.gov/inside-txdot/projects/studies/austin/rm1431-intersection.html
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: hm insulators on July 27, 2017, 02:15:19 PM
Looks like ADOT is finally going to replace the bridges and interchanges at I-17 and Pinnacle Peak Rd and I-17 and Happy Valley Rd.

I-17 and Happy Valley will get the first Diverging Diamond in the Phoenix area.

https://www.azdot.gov/projects/central-district-projects/i-17-ti-reconstruction-happy-valley-rd-and-pinnacle-peak-rd

I was exercising my bad shoulder at the physical therapist's office the other day (never dislocate your shoulder and/or tear a rotator cuff) and the TV was tuned to Channel 10 and I saw how the DDI was going to work. The sound was off, but I was able to ascertain enough that I think I would like a diverging-diamond better than roundabouts.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: JKRhodes on July 28, 2017, 07:41:51 PM
I responded to ADOT's announcement on Facebook, and asked if the new DDI will accommodate thru traffic on the frontage roads, to which they replied "Yes, that is the plan."

So I'm interested in seeing a schematic of what will actually be built if one is available. So far I've been unable to find anything on AZDOT.gov
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: blanketcomputer on July 29, 2017, 01:21:18 PM
So I'm interested in seeing a schematic of what will actually be built if one is available. So far I've been unable to find anything on AZDOT.gov

The plans for both interchanges can be seen on this ADOT page (https://www.azdot.gov/projects/central-district-projects/i-17-ti-reconstruction-happy-valley-rd-and-pinnacle-peak-rd/public-involvement).
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on July 30, 2017, 02:22:04 AM
I know many of us road geeks can understand the concept of how these things work, but wow, those drawings did nothing to dissuade the mouth-breathers that have complained about literally every aspect of this since unveiled last week.

"Oh my god, there's so many wrong way drivers, this will make it worse!" (Despite a DDI actually making it more difficult to go the wrong way)
"This is so complicated, ADOT!"
"OMG, just build a normal freaking interchange! The design since the 50's has worked just fine!"

Reading the comments section of the Facebook posts related to this makes my head explode. And looking at these drawings, I can imagine the public is just going to scream even louder.

So I'm interested in seeing a schematic of what will actually be built if one is available. So far I've been unable to find anything on AZDOT.gov

The plans for both interchanges can be seen on this ADOT page (https://www.azdot.gov/projects/central-district-projects/i-17-ti-reconstruction-happy-valley-rd-and-pinnacle-peak-rd/public-involvement).
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: JKRhodes on July 30, 2017, 02:40:43 AM
So I'm interested in seeing a schematic of what will actually be built if one is available. So far I've been unable to find anything on AZDOT.gov

The plans for both interchanges can be seen on this ADOT page (https://www.azdot.gov/projects/central-district-projects/i-17-ti-reconstruction-happy-valley-rd-and-pinnacle-peak-rd/public-involvement).

Thanks!

Well, the Happy Valley design seems pretty innovative in the way it facilitates frontage road thru traffic.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on August 17, 2017, 04:06:07 PM
Notes from around the Phoenix area.

The Loop 202 South Mountain Freeway has its own Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/SouthMountainFreeway/

Checking out the actual construction zones, most of the current work is around I-10 between 51st Ave and 67th Ave, and current Pecos Rd in Ahwatukee.

There's also the south side of the I-10/Loop 303 interchange being worked on. Future Loop 303 and its frontage roads will transition into Cotton Lane south of Van Buren St. ADOT has some construction pics on its website, and I saw a few mentions on the ADOT Facebook page.

For those of you who love, hate, or love to hate Clearview, I have seen some newer ADOT signs put up around the Phoenix area. The only Clearview signs I noticed were around the I-10/Loop 303 area. I saw that signs on SB AZ 51 just before the Ministack were being replaced this past weekend.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on August 17, 2017, 05:20:43 PM
Notes from around the Phoenix area.

The Loop 202 South Mountain Freeway has its own Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/SouthMountainFreeway/

Checking out the actual construction zones, most of the current work is around I-10 between 51st Ave and 67th Ave, and current Pecos Rd in Ahwatukee.

There's also the south side of the I-10/Loop 303 interchange being worked on. Future Loop 303 and its frontage roads will transition into Cotton Lane south of Van Buren St. ADOT has some construction pics on its website, and I saw a few mentions on the ADOT Facebook page.

For those of you who love, hate, or love to hate Clearview, I have seen some newer ADOT signs put up around the Phoenix area. The only Clearview signs I noticed were around the I-10/Loop 303 area. I saw that signs on SB AZ 51 just before the Ministack were being replaced this past weekend.

If you are referring to newly installed signs, perhaps the signing contract for those near I-10/Loop 303 may have been created before the interim approval was rescinded.  However, in another thread there was mention of a bid for a sign replacement project in Northern Arizona and it still specified Clearview.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Kniwt on August 20, 2017, 07:53:44 PM
Work begins on I-17 project to automatically detect wrong-way drivers:
http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix-traffic/2017/08/17/closures-planned-work-begins-wrong-way-driver-alert-system-i-17-phoenix/577179001/

Quote
The system uses thermal cameras to detect a wrong-way vehicle driving on an off-ramp. That automatically triggers a wrong-way sign that will light up and flash in an effort to grab the attention of the impaired, distracted or confused driver. It is constructed by Mesa-based Contractors West Inc., which specializes in highway electrical and sign work.

The new system is designed to immediately alert ADOT and DPS faster than the current way, which is entirely dependent on 911 calls from other drivers.

A notice also will appear on overhead message boards alerting freeway motorists that someone might be coming their way.

(Will drivers really obey a red ramp metering light in the middle of the night?)

(https://www.azdot.gov/images/default-source/far-west-projects/capture67a1d178c8006c57b531ff0000a35efc.jpg)
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on August 20, 2017, 08:22:41 PM
Work begins on I-17 project to automatically detect wrong-way drivers:
http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix-traffic/2017/08/17/closures-planned-work-begins-wrong-way-driver-alert-system-i-17-phoenix/577179001/

Quote
The system uses thermal cameras to detect a wrong-way vehicle driving on an off-ramp. That automatically triggers a wrong-way sign that will light up and flash in an effort to grab the attention of the impaired, distracted or confused driver. It is constructed by Mesa-based Contractors West Inc., which specializes in highway electrical and sign work.

The new system is designed to immediately alert ADOT and DPS faster than the current way, which is entirely dependent on 911 calls from other drivers.

A notice also will appear on overhead message boards alerting freeway motorists that someone might be coming their way.

(Will drivers really obey a red ramp metering light in the middle of the night?)

(https://www.azdot.gov/images/default-source/far-west-projects/capture67a1d178c8006c57b531ff0000a35efc.jpg)

Better than nothing, really the situation with wrong-way drivers has been an ongoing problem for decades on I-17.  A lot of people who don't understand the traffic ramifications locally are calling for spike strips.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: US 89 on August 20, 2017, 10:27:29 PM
Work begins on I-17 project to automatically detect wrong-way drivers:
http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix-traffic/2017/08/17/closures-planned-work-begins-wrong-way-driver-alert-system-i-17-phoenix/577179001/

Quote
The system uses thermal cameras to detect a wrong-way vehicle driving on an off-ramp. That automatically triggers a wrong-way sign that will light up and flash in an effort to grab the attention of the impaired, distracted or confused driver. It is constructed by Mesa-based Contractors West Inc., which specializes in highway electrical and sign work.

The new system is designed to immediately alert ADOT and DPS faster than the current way, which is entirely dependent on 911 calls from other drivers.

A notice also will appear on overhead message boards alerting freeway motorists that someone might be coming their way.

(Will drivers really obey a red ramp metering light in the middle of the night?)

(https://www.azdot.gov/images/default-source/far-west-projects/capture67a1d178c8006c57b531ff0000a35efc.jpg)

Better than nothing, really the situation with wrong-way drivers has been an ongoing problem for decades on I-17.  A lot of people who don't understand the traffic ramifications locally are calling for spike strips.

Wow. I have never heard of that being such a big issue. Obviously it is, because they're spending a bunch of money on it. I would probably be scared to drive on that freeway at night (assuming it's a drunk driving thing?)
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on August 21, 2017, 05:45:01 AM
Work begins on I-17 project to automatically detect wrong-way drivers:
http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix-traffic/2017/08/17/closures-planned-work-begins-wrong-way-driver-alert-system-i-17-phoenix/577179001/

Quote
The system uses thermal cameras to detect a wrong-way vehicle driving on an off-ramp. That automatically triggers a wrong-way sign that will light up and flash in an effort to grab the attention of the impaired, distracted or confused driver. It is constructed by Mesa-based Contractors West Inc., which specializes in highway electrical and sign work.

The new system is designed to immediately alert ADOT and DPS faster than the current way, which is entirely dependent on 911 calls from other drivers.

A notice also will appear on overhead message boards alerting freeway motorists that someone might be coming their way.

(Will drivers really obey a red ramp metering light in the middle of the night?)

(https://www.azdot.gov/images/default-source/far-west-projects/capture67a1d178c8006c57b531ff0000a35efc.jpg)

Better than nothing, really the situation with wrong-way drivers has been an ongoing problem for decades on I-17.  A lot of people who don't understand the traffic ramifications locally are calling for spike strips.

Wow. I have never heard of that being such a big issue. Obviously it is, because they're spending a bunch of money on it. I would probably be scared to drive on that freeway at night (assuming it's a drunk driving thing?)

For the most part it has always been on the older sections of I-17 that were part of AZ 69.  Almost every instance I've heard of in the past two decades where someone went the wrong way involved booze.  The deal is that the Black Canyon Highway runs a twin frontage road on both sides of I-17.  In the older sections the frontage roads are right next to I-17 and the ramp exits resemble a right a turn.  So if you're lit on booze you can see the potential for problems, some of the new interchanges have the Black Canyon Highway pushed further away from I-17.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on August 21, 2017, 06:42:02 PM
So ADOT posted an update on the south half of the I-10/Loop 303 interchange construction, along with a video clip:

https://www.facebook.com/AZDOT/videos/1617492014989162/
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Kniwt on August 22, 2017, 10:28:27 AM
Gilbert to switch left turn signals citywide from lagging-left to leading-left:
http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/gilbert/2017/08/21/gilbert-changing-leading-left-turn-lagging-left-turn-lights/577422001/

Quote
After more than a decade of "lagging lefts," Gilbert will change its street signals to match how the majority of Phoenix-area drivers execute left-hand turns.

The council narrowly passed the change Thursday after a contentious discussion on the right way to turn left. The switch will roll out in the next two months.

Currently in Gilbert, drivers making a left turn don't get a green arrow until after the through traffic light turns red. In every other city in the Valley, excluding Scottsdale and Goodyear, left-turners get a green arrow before through traffic.

Gilbert drivers have been turning in this fashion since 2004, but the town's traffic engineers asked the council to revert to the old way to increase consistency and efficiency.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ztonyg on August 22, 2017, 10:31:29 AM
Gilbert to switch left turn signals citywide from lagging-left to leading-left:
http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/gilbert/2017/08/21/gilbert-changing-leading-left-turn-lagging-left-turn-lights/577422001/

Quote
After more than a decade of "lagging lefts," Gilbert will change its street signals to match how the majority of Phoenix-area drivers execute left-hand turns.

The council narrowly passed the change Thursday after a contentious discussion on the right way to turn left. The switch will roll out in the next two months.

Currently in Gilbert, drivers making a left turn don't get a green arrow until after the through traffic light turns red. In every other city in the Valley, excluding Scottsdale and Goodyear, left-turners get a green arrow before through traffic.

Gilbert drivers have been turning in this fashion since 2004, but the town's traffic engineers asked the council to revert to the old way to increase consistency and efficiency.

I prefer lagging lefts but there are definitely instances where leading lefts make sense.

Scottsdale is all over the map with some of its signals.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kdk on August 22, 2017, 03:25:40 PM
Gilbert to switch left turn signals citywide from lagging-left to leading-left:
http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/gilbert/2017/08/21/gilbert-changing-leading-left-turn-lagging-left-turn-lights/577422001/

Quote
After more than a decade of "lagging lefts," Gilbert will change its street signals to match how the majority of Phoenix-area drivers execute left-hand turns.

The council narrowly passed the change Thursday after a contentious discussion on the right way to turn left. The switch will roll out in the next two months.

Currently in Gilbert, drivers making a left turn don't get a green arrow until after the through traffic light turns red. In every other city in the Valley, excluding Scottsdale and Goodyear, left-turners get a green arrow before through traffic.

Gilbert drivers have been turning in this fashion since 2004, but the town's traffic engineers asked the council to revert to the old way to increase consistency and efficiency.

I prefer lagging lefts but there are definitely instances where leading lefts make sense.

Scottsdale is all over the map with some of its signals.

I like the idea of lagging lefts too, but the problem I see is an area with a lot of tourists it's a big problem.  I live in Scottsdale, and most but not all are lagging, and usually works fine in the summer.  But the rest of the year with all of the out of state drivers, most are from areas with only leading left turn arrows.  They have never seen a lagging arrow so they will sit in turn lanes waiting for the next cycle and will just miss the arrow, holding up all the drivers behind them.  they just aren't paying attention. 
During certain times of year it will happen to me at least once a day.  Sometimes I can honk in time, but if they do go it's just in time for me to miss the arrow myself.  That's why I'm not surprised at studies showing that leading improves traffic speed times.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on September 01, 2017, 10:51:39 PM
Aerial of some Loop 202 (South Mountain Freeway) construction by Pecos Rd and 40th St.

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on September 04, 2017, 06:59:45 PM

Outside the Phoenix area on my weekend trip to Prescott, I saw some of ADOT's new Daktronics DMS on I-17, and they were the full color models.  They were displaying the Holiday Travel Corridor messages.  I wonder if these will be installed on the remaining portion of Loop 202 or will ADOT install the amber-only models.  ADOT's current contract with Daktronics includes both full color and amber-only DMS, so it remains to be seen what will be installed.


Interestingly, these new full color DMS were installed roadside on pedestals instead of overhead, a first for an ADOT freeway installation.  Previously ADOT only did such installations for arterials.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ztonyg on September 06, 2017, 06:06:54 PM
ADOT has a few quirks around the Phoenix area that I've just recently started to pay attention to.

1.) The Exit from S/B AZ 51 to I-10 and Loop 202 as well as the exit from W/B Northern Parkway to Loop 303 N/B and S/B are not numbered. All other freeway / freeway termini in the Phoenix areas have a number (Loop 202 W/B to AZ 51 / I-10 is Exit 1A, Loop 101 S/B to I-10 E/B is Exit 1A and Exit 1B, Loop 101 S/B to Loop 202 / Price Rd is Exit 61A, 61B, and 61C, Loop 303 S/B at I-10 is Exit 104A and Exit 104B.

2.) The signage on Loop 101 between US 60 and Loop 202 is totally different than all other freeway signage in the Phoenix area. On every other urban freeway segment other than Loop 101 between US 60 and Loop 202 ADOT uses Interchange Sequence Signs listing the next 2 - 3 exits in sequence approximately 1/4 mile before every interchange. On the aforementioned section of Loop 101 ADOT uses Interchange Advance Exit signs with the nearest exit on the right panel, the next nearest exit on the center panel, and if necessary the 3rd nearest exit on the left panel and these panels are placed approximately 3/4 miles ahead of every interchange. The only exception to this rule in this segment seems to be on Loop 101 N/B approximately 3/4 mile south of Ray Rd where the standard ADOT Interchange Sequence Sign is used but listing the next 3 exits as 3/4 mile, 1 3/4 mile, and 2 3/4 mile as opposed to the standard 1/4 mile, 1 1/4 mile, and 2 1/4 mile increments.




Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on September 07, 2017, 12:46:57 AM
This is an ADOT video on progress of the future I-10/Loop 202 interchange near 59th Ave.

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: pumpkineater2 on September 07, 2017, 01:56:41 PM
One thing I have noticed about the signage in the Phoenix area is that there are no control cities for the loops. The exits to the loop freeways from the non loops (US-60, I-10, I-17) Don't show any control cities. For example, At the loop 101 interchange with I-10, the signs just say "Loop 101 north". This pattern is repeated all across the system for interchanges with the loop freeways. I find this strange because there are plenty of good options for control cities on the loops. The sign I mentioned above could say "Peoria" and "Sun City" for the 101 north. I-17 south to loop 303 south could say "Surprise" and "Goodyear".
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on September 07, 2017, 05:10:02 PM
One thing I have noticed about the signage in the Phoenix area is that there are no control cities for the loops. The exits to the loop freeways from the non loops (US-60, I-10, I-17) Don't show any control cities. For example, At the loop 101 interchange with I-10, the signs just say "Loop 101 north". This pattern is repeated all across the system for interchanges with the loop freeways. I find this strange because there are plenty of good options for control cities on the loops. The sign I mentioned above could say "Peoria" and "Sun City" for the 101 north. I-17 south to loop 303 south could say "Surprise" and "Goodyear".

The only place where there are control cities is on Loop 202 EB for Loop 101, with Scottsdale being the control city for L101 NB and Chandler being the control city for L101 SB.  My guess is that these were added for the airport traffic.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on September 08, 2017, 02:36:11 AM
One thing I have noticed about the signage in the Phoenix area is that there are no control cities for the loops. The exits to the loop freeways from the non loops (US-60, I-10, I-17) Don't show any control cities. For example, At the loop 101 interchange with I-10, the signs just say "Loop 101 north". This pattern is repeated all across the system for interchanges with the loop freeways. I find this strange because there are plenty of good options for control cities on the loops. The sign I mentioned above could say "Peoria" and "Sun City" for the 101 north. I-17 south to loop 303 south could say "Surprise" and "Goodyear".

The only place where there are control cities is on Loop 202 EB for Loop 101, with Scottsdale being the control city for L101 NB and Chandler being the control city for L101 SB.  My guess is that these were added for the airport traffic.

There used to be a control city of "Peoria/Sun City" on McDowell Rd approaching Loop 101 in the West Valley. There are currently signs for "Surprise" for Loop 303 NB on McDowell, Cotton Lane, and the frontage roads near the I-10/Loop 303 interchange.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: jakeroot on September 08, 2017, 04:37:05 AM
Gilbert to switch left turn signals citywide from lagging-left to leading-left:
http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/gilbert/2017/08/21/gilbert-changing-leading-left-turn-lagging-left-turn-lights/577422001/

Quote
After more than a decade of "lagging lefts," Gilbert will change its street signals to match how the majority of Phoenix-area drivers execute left-hand turns.

The council narrowly passed the change Thursday after a contentious discussion on the right way to turn left. The switch will roll out in the next two months.

Currently in Gilbert, drivers making a left turn don't get a green arrow until after the through traffic light turns red. In every other city in the Valley, excluding Scottsdale and Goodyear, left-turners get a green arrow before through traffic.

Gilbert drivers have been turning in this fashion since 2004, but the town's traffic engineers asked the council to revert to the old way to increase consistency and efficiency.

Hmmm. Why exactly does it have to be an all-or-nothing decision? Most municipalities in my area use leading lefts (outside of timed corridors), but a couple use combo lead/lag lefts a lot, particularly at locations with flashing yellow arrows.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: roadfro on September 08, 2017, 10:31:36 AM
Gilbert to switch left turn signals citywide from lagging-left to leading-left:
http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/gilbert/2017/08/21/gilbert-changing-leading-left-turn-lagging-left-turn-lights/577422001/

Quote
After more than a decade of "lagging lefts," Gilbert will change its street signals to match how the majority of Phoenix-area drivers execute left-hand turns.

The council narrowly passed the change Thursday after a contentious discussion on the right way to turn left. The switch will roll out in the next two months.

Currently in Gilbert, drivers making a left turn don't get a green arrow until after the through traffic light turns red. In every other city in the Valley, excluding Scottsdale and Goodyear, left-turners get a green arrow before through traffic.

Gilbert drivers have been turning in this fashion since 2004, but the town's traffic engineers asked the council to revert to the old way to increase consistency and efficiency.

Hmmm. Why exactly does it have to be an all-or-nothing decision? Most municipalities in my area use leading lefts (outside of timed corridors), but a couple use combo lead/lag lefts a lot, particularly at locations with flashing yellow arrows.

Good traffic engineers wouldn't make it one-method-only decision across an entire jurisdiction. But I guess I'm assuming they'd be coordinating corridors of signal timing–in that case, lead/lag tends to be the best, but some intersections may be better all leading or all lagging depending on a variety of factors.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on September 08, 2017, 05:28:06 PM
One thing I don't understand is why was PARC granted 501(c)(3) tax exempt status.  It seems they are more like a political advocacy group rather than a legitimate charity, so shouldn't they be classified as 501(c)(4) instead?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: jakeroot on September 08, 2017, 09:02:39 PM
Gilbert to switch left turn signals citywide from lagging-left to leading-left:
http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/gilbert/2017/08/21/gilbert-changing-leading-left-turn-lagging-left-turn-lights/577422001/

Quote
After more than a decade of "lagging lefts," Gilbert will change its street signals to match how the majority of Phoenix-area drivers execute left-hand turns.

The council narrowly passed the change Thursday after a contentious discussion on the right way to turn left. The switch will roll out in the next two months.

Currently in Gilbert, drivers making a left turn don't get a green arrow until after the through traffic light turns red. In every other city in the Valley, excluding Scottsdale and Goodyear, left-turners get a green arrow before through traffic.

Gilbert drivers have been turning in this fashion since 2004, but the town's traffic engineers asked the council to revert to the old way to increase consistency and efficiency.

Hmmm. Why exactly does it have to be an all-or-nothing decision? Most municipalities in my area use leading lefts (outside of timed corridors), but a couple use combo lead/lag lefts a lot, particularly at locations with flashing yellow arrows.

Good traffic engineers wouldn't make it one-method-only decision across an entire jurisdiction. But I guess I'm assuming they'd be coordinating corridors of signal timing–in that case, lead/lag tends to be the best, but some intersections may be better all leading or all lagging depending on a variety of factors.

Given the long, straight arterial roads that criss-cross the Phoenix metro area, I would certainly hope that Gilbert at least attempts to coordinate their signals. Just using all lead or all lag doesn't work on a large scale (lag is probably more successful but only if there's flashing yellow arrows).
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on September 09, 2017, 01:43:04 AM
I got notification in an email today from ADOT that this Sunday they will start the DMS installation project on the remaining portion of the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway.  During next week, the foundation for the DMS between Higley and Power in the eastbound direction will be installed. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Zonie on September 09, 2017, 03:33:32 PM
One thing I don't understand is why was PARC granted 501(c)(3) tax exempt status.  It seems they are more like a political advocacy group rather than a legitimate charity, so shouldn't they be classified as 501(c)(4) instead?

I would agree on that front.  Just look slanderous and racist comments they made about Justice Humetawa's decision last year, or their delusional predictions of victory.  Oh, and their "alternatives:"

1. 8-10 lane Loop 202 on the Gila River Indian Community (GRIC), with permission.

Not happening.

2. Light rail along Pecos Road but going through a small portion of the GRIC (with permission) rather than cutting through South Mountain.

They whine about boondoggles, but this is insanity.

3. 8-10 lane Loop 202 following Baseline Road from 51st Ave to I-10.

Oh, so rip out a number of minority communities.  Yeah, that's the ticket.

4. 8-10 lane Loop 202 from I-10 near Avondale going along the west side of the Estrella Mountains and then cutting between the Estrella and Maricopa Mountains, following the southern boundary of the GRIC to the I-10 north of Casa Grande.

Useless.

5. 8-10 lane freeway along State Route 85 from I-10 at Buckeye to I-8 at Gila Bend as a “real”  truck by-pass.

Does nothing to alleviate traffic in the Broadway Curve.

6.  8-10 lane freeway along State Route 85 from I-10 at Buckeye, cutting between the Estrella and Maricopa Mountains and across to I-10 north of Casa Grande as a “real”  truck by-pass.

So let's pave over a National Monument...

7.  8-10 lane freeway along one of the routes described in 2, 3, or 4, and renumber it as the I-10 so all “through”  traffic would take this route as a default.

Or 'not in my backyard.'

8.  Renumber the I-10 through Phoenix as I-810 or the like, making it obvious that it is for Phoenix traffic only.

Right.  That'll solve everything.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on September 12, 2017, 11:52:48 AM
And the injunction request to stop the blasting has been denied:
http://www.ahwatukee.com/article_bf2e87c6-970c-11e7-83e1-e35ccc01db02.html
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Zonie on September 12, 2017, 04:19:40 PM
And the injunction request to stop the blasting has been denied:
http://www.ahwatukee.com/article_bf2e87c6-970c-11e7-83e1-e35ccc01db02.html

"Denied," the court said, giving no further explanation.

Love it.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on October 04, 2017, 02:49:18 PM
It looks like at least one of the new dynamic message signs on the remaining portion of Loop 202 may be installed on the median, since the base has been installed and there doesn't appear to be any space to install a double-arch monotube at that location due to a sound wall.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on October 09, 2017, 05:00:35 PM
As of today most of the ramps at the I-10/Loop 303 interchange are open. The 303 itself is now open to south of Van Buren St. Extension south of the new end won't get started for at least two years.

https://www.azdot.gov/media/News/news-release/2017/10/09/adot-opens-three-new-ramp-connections-at-i-10-loop-303-interchange-in-goodyear
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on October 12, 2017, 04:34:22 PM
All the ramps at the I-10/Loop 303 interchange are open.

Some Loop 202 (South Mountain Freeway) updates. Sound wall construction looks to have started on the Pecos segment, from 48th St going west. Some blasting continues west of 24th St.

Around 59th Ave, more bridges have started between Lower Buckeye Rd and I-10. At the future I-10 interchange, it looks like the ramp that will probably get finished first will be the NB 202 to WB 10.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on January 04, 2018, 07:53:19 PM
So today I noticed a new sign on SB I-17 just north of Loop 303. It basically said "South 303 to West I-10 - Phoenix Bypass Route". I'm wondering if a companion sign is on EB I-10 approaching Loop 303.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kdk on January 09, 2018, 05:57:18 PM
So today I noticed a new sign on SB I-17 just north of Loop 303. It basically said "South 303 to West I-10 - Phoenix Bypass Route". I'm wondering if a companion sign is on EB I-10 approaching Loop 303.

Yeah, I have noticed that before too on I-17.  I drove I-10 EB approaching the 303 a few weeks ago and did not see that.  I don't know if that's because it would confuse EB drivers with the fact that there has been a sign saying Phoenix bypass route for years referencing AZ 85 south through Gila Bend.

I know that northern Arizona gets a lot of California tourists now, and they would be driving south on I-17 to I-10, so maybe that's directed towards them?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on January 09, 2018, 07:06:26 PM
For those that are curious, there is a bypass sign on EB I-10 suggesting using Loop 303 to access I-17 NB.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: mrsman on January 16, 2018, 12:25:33 AM
These are good signs to have.  Even better would be if the signs leading to 303 would have control cities of Los Angeles or Flagstaff.  Many beltways, especially in the midwest, have control cities that lead to other radial routes to enforce the use of a beltway as a bypass.

The signs to AZ 85 on I-10 EB should then mention Tucson as well as Gila Bend.

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: howlincoyote2k1 on January 26, 2018, 02:07:03 PM
Question about the South Mountain freeway, and maybe it's too early to ask, but are they planning on opening the whole thing all at once, or certain segments at a time? Mostly curious.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on January 30, 2018, 06:22:50 PM
Question about the South Mountain freeway, and maybe it's too early to ask, but are they planning on opening the whole thing all at once, or certain segments at a time? Mostly curious.

The freeway may unofficially open in sections. The “center section”  that will go through South Mountain Park will probably be the last section to be completed. I’m sure some segments will be in use to construct other portions. For example, what will replace Pecos Rd will probably be at least partially open as it’s completed.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on January 31, 2018, 01:49:29 AM
Some visual progress of the Pecos section of the South Mountain Freeway construction (going west):


Progress on the I-10 Papago segment (going north):

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: jakeroot on February 04, 2018, 01:24:20 PM
Progress on the I-10 Papago segment (going north):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6BwAwNr9-4

I'm surprised they haven't torn down that warehouse south of Van Buren Street yet. Looks like it's still being used too.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on February 04, 2018, 11:51:20 PM
If I had to guess, some of the properties may have agreements with ADOT that they can operate until a certain date to fulfill contracts they may have for production of goods. Plus they may not be in as-critical places for overpasses and that type of thing so they can hang out a little longer.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on February 11, 2018, 06:46:22 PM
Flyover of the Salt River segment of the future South Mountain Freeway (going north):

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on March 02, 2018, 09:13:02 PM
Minor update on Loop 202 South Mountain Freeway construction. The bridge that will carry Loop 202 over 40th St was just recently painted. It should be one of the first bridges finished. Also, by tomorrow morning (March 3), the westbound I-10 off ramp at 59th Ave will be permanently closed. Access from I-10 to 59th Ave in the future will be via frontage roads between 51st Ave and 67th Ave.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on March 12, 2018, 09:19:54 PM

Looks like ADOT may be gearing up for the Daktronics DMS installs on the remaining portion of the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway, since I saw a truck over by one of the foundations that were installed this past fall doing some work, and in addition AZ511.gov is showing a closure on the 202 SanTan eastbound between Higley and Power from March 23 to March 24.
I wonder if they will be full color models like the new ones that were installed north of Anthem on I-17 last year.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ztonyg on March 15, 2018, 03:53:23 PM

Looks like ADOT may be gearing up for the Daktronics DMS installs on the remaining portion of the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway, since I saw a truck over by one of the foundations that were installed this past fall doing some work, and in addition AZ511.gov is showing a closure on the 202 SanTan eastbound between Higley and Power from March 23 to March 24.
I wonder if they will be full color models like the new ones that were installed north of Anthem on I-17 last year.

Speaking of DMS. ADOT has changed the font on several of the Skyline DMSs.

The new font is smaller and more difficult to read. I'm not quite sure why this was done (I'd assume it had to do with a software update).
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on March 16, 2018, 08:28:38 PM
ADOT just posted more planned closures on the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway during that same weekend for Saturday night, between Broadway and Elliot Road southbound.  I am pretty sure these are for the DMS installs.  Perhaps the weekend after will be for the opposite directions on the same segments.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on March 23, 2018, 04:23:26 PM
Looks like ADOT will be installing dynamic message signs this weekend on the section of the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway between Higley and Power, along with traffic flow sensors and cameras.  However, it looks like the section between Guadalupe and Broadway will be getting traffic flow sensors this weekend if my interpretation of ADOT's Weekend Freeway Travel Advisory is correct.  ADOT says it will be getting "traffic management technology" installed this weekend, but only specifies traffic flow sensors.  I'm not sure if this includes dynamic message signs.  There are foundations for dynamic message signs in that section of Loop 202, however, I am not sure if the installation will take place this weekend based on my interpretation of ADOT's Weekend Freeway Travel Advisory.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on March 25, 2018, 09:49:00 PM
I was on the portion of the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway today between Guadalupe and Broadway, and it looks like the side mounts for the gantries were installed, however, neither the center sections nor the DMS themselves were installed.  I didn't check the portion between Higley and Power.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Bobby5280 on March 26, 2018, 10:12:21 AM
Quote
The new font is smaller and more difficult to read. I'm not quite sure why this was done (I'd assume it had to do with a software update).

If these displays work anything like other LED-based variable message signs the message composing software should allow for different letter sizes based on pixel height. The software would have to be very primitive (we're talking 1980's & 1990's primitive) to allow for only one lettering size. Daktronics' Galaxy message centers (used on commercial businesses) provide a whole lot more creative control regardless if the unit is monochrome or full color. The price difference between color and monochrome has narrowed in recent years, which might explain why we're seeing some new highway digital message signs being installed with full color capability.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on March 26, 2018, 10:19:43 AM
Quote
The new font is smaller and more difficult to read. I'm not quite sure why this was done (I'd assume it had to do with a software update).

If these displays work anything like other LED-based variable message signs the message composing software should allow for different letter sizes based on pixel height. The software would have to be very primitive (we're talking 1980's & 1990's primitive) to allow for only one lettering size. Daktronics' Galaxy message centers (used on commercial businesses) provide a whole lot more creative control regardless if the unit is monochrome or full color. The price difference between color and monochrome has narrowed in recent years, which might explain why we're seeing some new highway digital message signs being installed with full color capability.


ADOT didn't even adopt full matrix until around 2012 when it signed its previous contract with Skyline. Most DMS in the state are fixed character matrix.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on April 03, 2018, 03:41:35 PM
More closures on the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway and the east end of the Red Mountain Freeway are planned this weekend, I presume this weekend will be the DMS installs.  Friday night will be the Red Mountain between US 60 and Broadway, while Saturday night will be the SanTan between US 60 and Elliot.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on April 04, 2018, 01:04:03 PM
The first bridge related to the South Mountain Freeway section of Loop 202 is open. It's the Elliot Rd overpass.

http://www.azfamily.com/story/37864082/adot-first-south-mountain-freeway-bridge-in-laveen-open
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on April 08, 2018, 07:34:05 PM
I saw one of the new Daktronics DMS on the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway eastbound last evening between Higley and Power.  Based on what I saw, it appeared to be a color model from the apparent resolution, although I am not 100% sure since it was almost night.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on April 09, 2018, 09:37:39 PM
I saw one of the new Daktronics DMS that were installed this past weekend on the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway southbound near Baseline.  It definitely appears to be a color model.

Now whether or not they will actually display different colors or graphics remains to be seen.  Last time I saw a message on one of them north of Anthem on I-17 they were simply displaying plain yellow text (which I presume is the default message color for these signs), although in a smoother font than the Skyline signs due to the higher sign resolution.  I know that ADOT's current control software does not presently have the capability to control fonts or display graphics on the Skyline full matrix signs, so I would be very surprised if it is capable of controlling color on these new Daktronics signs.  ADOT probably plans on upgrading their software soon, but probably has to maintain compatibility with their older signs, since most of ADOT's signs are of the fixed character matrix type.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on April 13, 2018, 01:33:04 AM
More visual progress of the Loop 202 South Mountain Freeway:


Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Henry on April 13, 2018, 09:41:31 AM
Always glad to see lots of progress on the new South Mountain Freeway project! Don't be surprised if it is finished way ahead of schedule, although some additional lawsuits may still block that from happening.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: mrsman on April 13, 2018, 06:36:23 PM
That is a wide ROW.  The existing 4 lane road is maybe like 1/5 of the entire ROW.  This would be an ideal corridor for a freeway with TX style frontage roads.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ztonyg on April 13, 2018, 11:39:19 PM
Quote
The new font is smaller and more difficult to read. I'm not quite sure why this was done (I'd assume it had to do with a software update).

If these displays work anything like other LED-based variable message signs the message composing software should allow for different letter sizes based on pixel height. The software would have to be very primitive (we're talking 1980's & 1990's primitive) to allow for only one lettering size. Daktronics' Galaxy message centers (used on commercial businesses) provide a whole lot more creative control regardless if the unit is monochrome or full color. The price difference between color and monochrome has narrowed in recent years, which might explain why we're seeing some new highway digital message signs being installed with full color capability.


ADOT didn't even adopt full matrix until around 2012 when it signed its previous contract with Skyline. Most DMS in the state are fixed character matrix.

Here's a photo I took of the new font on some of the Skyline DMSs. I'm not a big fan (as I stated in my earlier post).

(http://i65.tinypic.com/3r0vb.jpg)
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on April 14, 2018, 10:32:10 AM
The ones on the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway are still in the old font.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on May 01, 2018, 03:25:57 PM
Over the course of this week, the new westbound I-10 frontage road will be opening between 51st Ave and 67th Ave. Hopefully as the month of May goes on, there will be more work on the future ramps connecting Loop 202 to WB I-10.

Also as of now the entire future Loop 202 corridor is under construction.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: andy3175 on May 05, 2018, 11:21:09 AM
According to the project webpage, the project is scheduled for completion in late 2019: https://www.azdot.gov/projects/central-district-projects/loop-202-(south-mountain-freeway)/construction-info

Quote
Major construction of the 22-mile freeway project began in early 2017 in the I-10 Papago, Salt River and Pecos segments. Visit the segment pages for detailed construction information, including a 2018 schedule and maps of major activities starting early-to mid 2018. Most construction will occur on weekdays, although some construction activities will require work every day and at night to complete the freeway by late 2019. 

Here is the construction map as of January 2018:

(https://www.azdot.gov/images/default-source/loop-202-south-mountain-freeway/smf-construction-phasing-map-jan-18.png?sfvrsn=2)
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on May 06, 2018, 09:24:16 PM
Another Daktronics color DMS has been installed on the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway in the southbound direction near Elliot Road and I think possibly another one in the westbound direction between SR 24 and Power.  It looks like next weekend ADOT will be installing one in the northbound direction near Guadalupe.

Also, according to ADOT's website, ADOT will be installing some of these Daktronics color DMS on the southern portion of the Loop 303.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ztonyg on May 10, 2018, 12:33:20 PM
Another Daktronics color DMS has been installed on the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway in the southbound direction near Elliot Road and I think possibly another one in the westbound direction between SR 24 and Power.  It looks like next weekend ADOT will be installing one in the northbound direction near Guadalupe.

Also, according to ADOT's website, ADOT will be installing some of these Daktronics color DMS on the southern portion of the Loop 303.

I saw one of those Daktronics signs in operation on S/B I-17 just south of AZ 69 a few weeks ago.

The resolution on those is impressive.

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on May 10, 2018, 03:53:35 PM

I saw one of those Daktronics signs in operation on S/B I-17 just south of AZ 69 a few weeks ago.

The resolution on those is impressive.

I wonder if ADOT will eventually take full advantage of these signs.  I presume the current control software doesn't support colors, fonts, or graphics.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on May 11, 2018, 08:12:38 PM
If anyone hasn't seen one of the new color Daktronics DMS, here is a photo of one posted on ADOT's Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/AZDOT/photos/a.137665612971817.29041.117553941649651/1956680831070277/?type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/AZDOT/photos/a.137665612971817.29041.117553941649651/1956680831070277/?type=3&theater)

The ones on the 202 SanTan though are on overhead gantries instead of the roadside mounts found on I-17.  Interestingly those were the first in Arizona to use that style of mount.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: roadfro on May 11, 2018, 09:51:16 PM
If anyone hasn't seen one of the new color Daktronics DMS, here is a photo of one posted on ADOT's Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/AZDOT/photos/a.137665612971817.29041.117553941649651/1956680831070277/?type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/AZDOT/photos/a.137665612971817.29041.117553941649651/1956680831070277/?type=3&theater)

Can we talk about how that "W" is really just an upside-down "M"...? For a sign with higher resolution than a standard dot-matrix LED layout, you'd think it would be shaped more naturally...
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on May 12, 2018, 01:02:52 AM

If anyone hasn't seen one of the new color Daktronics DMS, here is a photo of one posted on ADOT's Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/AZDOT/photos/a.137665612971817.29041.117553941649651/1956680831070277/?type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/AZDOT/photos/a.137665612971817.29041.117553941649651/1956680831070277/?type=3&theater)

Can we talk about how that "W" is really just an upside-down "M"...? For a sign with higher resolution than a standard dot-matrix LED layout, you'd think it would be shaped more naturally...


I'm pretty sure it is a control software limitation that only supports monospaced fonts and how those signs are interfacing with the old software probably defaults to that font.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: roadfro on May 13, 2018, 12:17:45 PM

If anyone hasn't seen one of the new color Daktronics DMS, here is a photo of one posted on ADOT's Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/AZDOT/photos/a.137665612971817.29041.117553941649651/1956680831070277/?type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/AZDOT/photos/a.137665612971817.29041.117553941649651/1956680831070277/?type=3&theater)

Can we talk about how that "W" is really just an upside-down "M"...? For a sign with higher resolution than a standard dot-matrix LED layout, you'd think it would be shaped more naturally...

I'm pretty sure it is a control software limitation that only supports monospaced fonts and how those signs are interfacing with the old software probably defaults to that font.

Not sure that it's a monospaced font, given the width of the "I" characters appears to be less narrow than the other characters. But even a monospaced font could have a better designed "W"...
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on June 20, 2018, 07:24:34 PM
Some updates on the Loop 202 construction on the I-10 corridor. It looks like there are now mileage signs up referencing "202 South" going along WB I-10 from the I-17 Stack to the construction zone. Also, all the on/off ramps to 59th Ave are permanently closed. The WB frontage road from 51st Ave to 67th Ave is open. The EB frontage road from 67th Ave to 59th Ave is open. In July, the EB frontage road from 59th Ave to 51st Ave is scheduled to open.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on July 17, 2018, 10:10:42 AM
Looks like ADOT has installed their first APL signage in the Phoenix area, on US 60 WB in Tempe. This is due to a lane option change. Still no Clearview though.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: The Ghostbuster on July 18, 2018, 04:55:38 PM
Once the AZ-202 South Mountain Freeway is completed, are there any dates for when the AZ-30 freeway might be constructed? And how about any dates on when more of the AZ-24 freeway might be constructed?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on July 18, 2018, 05:36:00 PM
Once the AZ-202 South Mountain Freeway is completed, are there any dates for when the AZ-30 freeway might be constructed? And how about any dates on when more of the AZ-24 freeway might be constructed?

The interim SR 24 will not be a full freeway but will be a major arterial road.  If funding becomes available it may be converted into a full freeway.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Zonie on July 18, 2018, 06:40:05 PM
It would probably be similar to the Ironwood/Gantzel corridor - four lanes with the cable barrier between the right-of-ways. 

Wonder if SR 24 will skirt north of the industrial park at Pecos/Mountain.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on July 21, 2018, 01:47:31 PM
Here are some pics of the new APL signage in Tempe:

https://www.facebook.com/AZDOT/photos/pcb.2064643526940673/2064642566940769/?type=3&theater


https://www.facebook.com/AZDOT/photos/pcb.2064643526940673/2064642933607399/?type=3&theater
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: jakeroot on July 21, 2018, 03:57:15 PM
Here are some pics of the new APL signage in Tempe:

https://www.facebook.com/AZDOT/photos/pcb.2064643526940673/2064642566940769/?type=3&theater


https://www.facebook.com/AZDOT/photos/pcb.2064643526940673/2064642933607399/?type=3&theater

Looks really good. I appreciate all these agencies using their own custom arrows (UT, CA, MI, WI). The MUTCD arrows are far too large.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: roadfro on July 21, 2018, 07:23:48 PM
Here are some pics of the new APL signage in Tempe:

https://www.facebook.com/AZDOT/photos/pcb.2064643526940673/2064642566940769/?type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/AZDOT/photos/pcb.2064643526940673/2064642933607399/?type=3&theater

Looks really good. I appreciate all these agencies using their own custom arrows (UT, CA, MI, WI). The MUTCD arrows are far too large.

Shields and text on the APL signs appear to be oversized, so the result looks cluttered. But I agree that MUTCD APL arrows are way too big and the smaller arrows work just fine here.

(Also, why are the bridge vertical height clearance signs white on green? They should be black on yellow.)
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on July 21, 2018, 09:25:35 PM
Here are some pics of the new APL signage in Tempe:

https://www.facebook.com/AZDOT/photos/pcb.2064643526940673/2064642566940769/?type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/AZDOT/photos/pcb.2064643526940673/2064642566940769/?type=3&theater)

https://www.facebook.com/AZDOT/photos/pcb.2064643526940673/2064642933607399/?type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/AZDOT/photos/pcb.2064643526940673/2064642933607399/?type=3&theater)

Looks really good. I appreciate all these agencies using their own custom arrows (UT, CA, MI, WI). The MUTCD arrows are far too large.

Shields and text on the APL signs appear to be oversized, so the result looks cluttered. But I agree that MUTCD APL arrows are way too big and the smaller arrows work just fine here.

(Also, why are the bridge vertical height clearance signs white on green? They should be black on yellow.)


ADOT uses white on green for bridge vertical height clearance. I think possibly NMDOT might also use white on green.

As for the large text, ADOT has been doing this since the Clearview era for freeway to freeway interchanges.

EDIT: Speaking about the custom arrows, I do recall reading somewhere that one of ADOT's initial issues with APL signage was due to the larger sign requirements, thus increasing sign production costs.  It looks like ADOT was able to get around that by designing custom smaller arrows.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: roadfro on July 22, 2018, 10:32:39 AM
(Also, why are the bridge vertical height clearance signs white on green? They should be black on yellow.)
ADOT uses white on green for bridge vertical height clearance. I think possibly NMDOT might also use white on green.

That's just weird, and blatant non-compliance with MUTCD...
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on July 30, 2018, 08:10:51 PM
Looks like ADOT might be resuming their Loop 202 SanTan Freeway ITS project after a three month hiatus since May.  AZ511.gov shows a closure this weekend.

EDIT: Confirmed that the ITS project is resuming.  I wonder if the Daktronics color DMS in the northbound direction between SR 24 and Elliot will finally be going up.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on August 02, 2018, 09:20:57 PM
There were pics of the South Mountain Freeway construction, as well as a little freeway photo history of the Phoenix area, in the link below:


https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/southwest-valley-traffic/2018/06/21/south-mountain-freeway-metro-phoenix-more-than-halfway-done/707104002/
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on August 03, 2018, 04:10:31 AM
There were pics of the South Mountain Freeway construction, as well as a little freeway photo history of the Phoenix area, in the link below:


https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/southwest-valley-traffic/2018/06/21/south-mountain-freeway-metro-phoenix-more-than-halfway-done/707104002/

Honestly, that gallery of old pictures is pretty badass. Some great old stuff there I've never seen before.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on August 07, 2018, 08:20:13 PM
About those white on green clearance signs, I did read somewhere that ADOT does use black on yellow for substandard clearances.  Unlike most states which only post signs on substandard clearances, ADOT posts clearances on all bridges.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on August 09, 2018, 04:08:17 AM
About those white on green clearance signs, I did read somewhere that ADOT does use black on yellow for substandard clearances.  Unlike most states which only post signs on substandard clearances, ADOT posts clearances on all bridges.

They used to. But I don't think they do anymore. In fact, I believe they actively have removed all clearance signs from overpasses around the state unless its a lower than normal one.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on August 15, 2018, 12:10:44 PM
BTW, ADOT has upgraded most of their CCTV cameras in the Phoenix area to HD.  I think the only freeway that hasn't been upgraded yet is the US 60 Superstition Freeway.  I think the first freeway to get HD cameras was the Loop 101 Pima Freeway between the Loop 202 Red Mountain and Cactus.  The most recent to get HD cameras are the Loop 101 Price Freeway and the Loop 101 Pima Freeway between Cactus and Princess.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on August 16, 2018, 12:01:53 PM
Paving has started on the Loop 202 mainline (South Mountain Freeway). The first mile of paving is in Laveen, near Elliot Rd. Also upcoming for paving is the east end of the Pecos segment (40th St to 48th St).
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Zonie on August 16, 2018, 12:58:25 PM
Also looks like the last lingering whiny lawsuit against ADOT got tossed out of Superior Court this morning.  This was a homeowner contesting his HOA's right to sell HOA common grounds to ADOT around 27th Avenue.

Of course, the nutter already has an appeal pending.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on August 18, 2018, 06:37:06 AM
One thing I've been curious to see how they handle is the Pecos section and the current Pecos Rd bit. Eventually they have to move traffic elsewhere to construct that part, so do they move traffic onto the mainline freeway somehow? So basically that section is "open" earlier than the whole thing, but in some kind of interim state?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on August 18, 2018, 12:03:27 PM
One thing I've been curious to see how they handle is the Pecos section and the current Pecos Rd bit. Eventually they have to move traffic elsewhere to construct that part, so do they move traffic onto the mainline freeway somehow? So basically that section is "open" earlier than the whole thing, but in some kind of interim state?

According to this link, they will build as much of the future freeway as possible on the Pecos section. In the final stages, Pecos Rd traffic will be shifted onto the freeway lanes.

https://www.constructionequipmentguide.com/phase-ii-begins-on-177b-south-mountain-freeway/32973
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on August 29, 2018, 02:00:10 PM
New drone video showing the first paved section (as well as other progress) of the South Mountain Freeway:

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on August 31, 2018, 06:53:52 AM
Update on Center Segment:



Update on I-10 Papago Segment:

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: jakeroot on August 31, 2018, 10:57:15 AM
The perks of building in a year-round summer climate: year-round construction! Something like this would take 10-15 years in WA.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: mrsman on August 31, 2018, 02:26:35 PM
The perks of building in a year-round summer climate: year-round construction! Something like this would take 10-15 years in WA.

It's not just the topical climate, the political climate in AZ is more favorable to road building as well.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: KeithE4Phx on August 31, 2018, 06:16:25 PM
The perks of building in a year-round summer climate: year-round construction! Something like this would take 10-15 years in WA.

It's not just the topical climate, the political climate in AZ is more favorable to road building as well.

Which, of course, is why it's taken over 25 years after approval of the highway sales tax to get the South Mountain Freeway (Loop 202) built.  Gigantic pissing contests between the GRIC, one crooked Phoenix city councilman, and the NIMBYs of the Ahwatukee Foothills area were to blame.  Not exactly a favorable political climate.

And do I have to remind people about how long it took for I-10 to be built between Buckeye and Phoenix?  IIRC, it was over 15 years after the segment that ended at Buckeye was opened.  Thank the Arizona Republic and the Phoenix Forty for a lot of that, along with the original poor design of the section between I-17 and what is now the AZ 51 and 202 splitoffs.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on August 31, 2018, 06:29:42 PM
Update on Pecos Segment of Loop 202:



Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: jakeroot on August 31, 2018, 08:38:00 PM
The perks of building in a year-round summer climate: year-round construction! Something like this would take 10-15 years in WA.

It's not just the topical climate, the political climate in AZ is more favorable to road building as well.

There's not much opposition to freeways here either, but it takes forever to find funding, and even longer to construct.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on September 14, 2018, 01:41:53 PM
ADOT has just started testing of the Daktronics color DMS on the eastern part of the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway.  They are currently displaying the "ADOT SIGN TEST" message on three rows.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: JKRhodes on September 19, 2018, 08:29:23 PM
One thing I've been curious to see how they handle is the Pecos section and the current Pecos Rd bit. Eventually they have to move traffic elsewhere to construct that part, so do they move traffic onto the mainline freeway somehow? So basically that section is "open" earlier than the whole thing, but in some kind of interim state?

Chandler Blvd was extended to the Foothills Reserve neighborhood, the only one that was formerly only accessible via Pecos. So it's reasonable to assume that drivers will have to take Chandler Blvd to get home while work is taking place on Pecos... Or lanes will be narrowed and shifted on Pecos  while the interchanges get built. Probably a combination of both strategies.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on October 01, 2018, 08:33:03 PM
Today I saw the new Daktronics color DMS on the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway displaying the Wet Roads Slow Down message (since it was raining this morning). Since these DMS still had the orange Sign Under Test signs mounted to the gantries, I presume they are currently in the System Acceptance Test phase (the testing phase under real world usage).
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on November 09, 2018, 04:14:42 AM
From the most recent video by the Youtube channel "SMF Construction Info", it looks like a VMS has already been installed on the South Mountain Freeway despite it most likely being at least another year before it actually opens. It is just past 40th St on what will be the WB lanes. Really interesting to see that installed already despite the fact that the overpass at 32nd St and the underpass at Desert Foothills Parkway aren't even done.

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Zonie on November 09, 2018, 02:24:53 PM
From the most recent video by the Youtube channel "SMF Construction Info", it looks like a VMS has already been installed on the South Mountain Freeway despite it most likely being at least another year before it actually opens. It is just past 40th St on what will be the WB lanes. Really interesting to see that installed already despite the fact that the overpass at 32nd St and the underpass at Desert Foothills Parkway aren't even done.


There's more...ADOT is adding an interchange at 32nd Street, but it won't be done until after the freeway opens.

http://www.ahwatukee.com/news/article_062492d2-e2b7-11e8-a1f8-6331e9508931.html
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on November 09, 2018, 05:54:33 PM
From the most recent video by the Youtube channel "SMF Construction Info", it looks like a VMS has already been installed on the South Mountain Freeway despite it most likely being at least another year before it actually opens. It is just past 40th St on what will be the WB lanes. Really interesting to see that installed already despite the fact that the overpass at 32nd St and the underpass at Desert Foothills Parkway aren't even done.


I always figured the area around 40th St would be one of the first segments to open. I figure that in some of the freeway alignment, some of the traffic will use future freeway lanes (or frontage roads) in later stages of construction.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on November 09, 2018, 09:33:32 PM
Speaking of DMS, I think on the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway there may be a delay with the Daktronics color DMS board testing, since the orange signs on the posts are still up and I haven't seen any messages displayed lately.  Perhaps ADOT ran into an issue during the system acceptance test and its currently attempting to get it fixed.  Normally the system acceptance test lasts one month if there are no major issues.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on November 16, 2018, 10:28:25 AM
Well, I saw one of the new color Daktronics DMS on the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway once again displaying a message apparently about a closure on the US 60.

EDIT: As of this afternoon, the orange "SIGN UNDER TEST" signs on the sides of the gantries have been removed.  I'm guessing they are fully operational now.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Zonie on November 19, 2018, 11:50:19 AM
From the most recent video by the Youtube channel "SMF Construction Info", it looks like a VMS has already been installed on the South Mountain Freeway despite it most likely being at least another year before it actually opens. It is just past 40th St on what will be the WB lanes. Really interesting to see that installed already despite the fact that the overpass at 32nd St and the underpass at Desert Foothills Parkway aren't even done.


I also noticed a VMS installed on the southbound alignment at Baseline.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on November 19, 2018, 12:15:18 PM

I also noticed a VMS installed on the southbound alignment at Baseline.

Since this project is a Design-Build-Maintain contract, the design and construction is occurring simultaneously, and I presume this includes the Freeway Management System.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on December 22, 2018, 09:38:26 PM
Recent drone footage of the Pecos section of future Loop 202:

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: 404inthe404 on January 04, 2019, 05:58:41 PM
Flying in the front of a Delta A321 on a ATL-PHX leg, we went right over the 202/I-10 construction and I managed to get a pretty good shot of the progress.


(https://i.imgur.com/avFugTb.jpg)
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: SSR_317 on January 05, 2019, 03:11:22 PM
Flying in the front of a Delta A321 on a ATL-PHX leg, we went right over the 202/I-10 construction and I managed to get a pretty good shot of the progress.


(https://i.imgur.com/avFugTb.jpg)
Great pic...thanks!
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: jakeroot on January 05, 2019, 05:01:11 PM
It's like LA in the 60s and 70s.

"This looks like a good alignment...excuse me...pardon me...coming through...whoops, sorry   ...   perfect!"
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on January 06, 2019, 09:42:05 AM
^ That is a great pic!

I'm looking forward to seeing the completion of the South Mountain Freeway.  Arizona does such a good job with it's freeways.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on January 07, 2019, 12:09:11 AM
I love that apartment complex that had like half their property taken for the freeway but they left the other half. Honestly if I was the complex, I'd just sell the whole thing to ADOT or bulldoze all the units and redevelop something else, instead of kicking out half your residents and having the other half pissed about a freeway out their window.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on January 07, 2019, 10:12:02 AM
I love that apartment complex that had like half their property taken for the freeway but they left the other half. Honestly if I was the complex, I'd just sell the whole thing to ADOT or bulldoze all the units and redevelop something else, instead of kicking out half your residents and having the other half pissed about a freeway out their window.

Looked plenty large enough to still be a viable complex.  I’m sure the eminent domain price wasn’t awful for a share of the property. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: howlincoyote2k1 on January 07, 2019, 02:38:10 PM
^ That is a great pic!

I'm looking forward to seeing the completion of the South Mountain Freeway.  Arizona does such a good job with it's freeways.

While the actual construction quality is good - this road will not completely unclog I-10 W of downtown Phoenix.  The 10 connection is simply too far east.  The 59th Ave corridor, which the western leg of this 202 route hugs, was/is primarily an industrial corridor.  With a considerable amount of underutilized and or vacant properties.   While this route took an easier routing, it really should have been placed further west.

While true--I would have preferred this to directly connect to L101--we should be getting started with SR 30 pretty soon which will hopefully help accomplish that goal. Plus, I can kind of understand Tolleson being pretty upset about potentially losing ~10% percent of its land area to a freeway.

At this point, I'm just glad the thing is being built.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: jakeroot on January 07, 2019, 03:14:35 PM
I love that apartment complex that had like half their property taken for the freeway but they left the other half. Honestly if I was the complex, I'd just sell the whole thing to ADOT or bulldoze all the units and redevelop something else, instead of kicking out half your residents and having the other half pissed about a freeway out their window.

Looked plenty large enough to still be a viable complex.  I’m sure the eminent domain price wasn’t awful for a share of the property.

Never mind that ADOT probably didn't offer to buy the entire complex. With half gone, that's half of the property that doesn't need maintaining, thus half the amount of HOA dues required. Doubt it made much of a difference except to those displaced, of course. I am curious if ADOT offered compensation to those whose leases were cut short, or if lessee's were allowed to stay until the end, and only then was demolition proceeded with.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on January 07, 2019, 03:18:29 PM
I love that apartment complex that had like half their property taken for the freeway but they left the other half. Honestly if I was the complex, I'd just sell the whole thing to ADOT or bulldoze all the units and redevelop something else, instead of kicking out half your residents and having the other half pissed about a freeway out their window.

Looked plenty large enough to still be a viable complex.  I’m sure the eminent domain price wasn’t awful for a share of the property.

Never mind that ADOT probably didn't offer to buy the entire complex. With half gone, that's half of the property that doesn't need maintaining, thus half the amount of HOA dues required. Doubt it made much of a difference except to those displaced, of course. I am curious if ADOT offered compensation to those whose leases were cut short, or if lessee's were allowed to stay until the end, and only then was demolition proceeded with.

My assumption was it was apartments...could be wrong?  Either way it will be probably be convenient as all hell having two freeways right there.  It was nice being able to jump on AZ 51 and be in downtown in 5’minutes the last apparent in the last apparent I llived at in Phoenix.  It was on 32nd Street and Shea Boulevard between two on-ramps. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: jakeroot on January 07, 2019, 04:41:21 PM
I love that apartment complex that had like half their property taken for the freeway but they left the other half. Honestly if I was the complex, I'd just sell the whole thing to ADOT or bulldoze all the units and redevelop something else, instead of kicking out half your residents and having the other half pissed about a freeway out their window.

Looked plenty large enough to still be a viable complex.  I’m sure the eminent domain price wasn’t awful for a share of the property.

Never mind that ADOT probably didn't offer to buy the entire complex. With half gone, that's half of the property that doesn't need maintaining, thus half the amount of HOA dues required. Doubt it made much of a difference except to those displaced, of course. I am curious if ADOT offered compensation to those whose leases were cut short, or if lessee's were allowed to stay until the end, and only then was demolition proceeded with.

My assumption was it was apartments...could be wrong?  Either way it will be probably be convenient as all hell having two freeways right there.  It was nice being able to jump on AZ 51 and be in downtown in 5’minutes the last apparent in the last apparent I llived at in Phoenix.  It was on 32nd Street and Shea Boulevard between two on-ramps.

I'm thinking it was apartments as well. But since apartments usually require extended leases, ADOT would have had to contend with people who were under some legal right of residence. Cutting leases short is not impossible, but there's generally a fine. I hope ADOT let residents live out their leases. Obviously its different than buying single-family property, since the state is purchasing out the infrastructure from beneath you that you don't own.

I don't doubt that it will be nice having the 202 and 10 right outside your door, but if they keep building houses way out in what was once the "boondocks", it's going to be quite a busy area twenty years from now. I'd be looking to buy downtown, myself!
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on January 07, 2019, 05:00:06 PM
I love that apartment complex that had like half their property taken for the freeway but they left the other half. Honestly if I was the complex, I'd just sell the whole thing to ADOT or bulldoze all the units and redevelop something else, instead of kicking out half your residents and having the other half pissed about a freeway out their window.

Looked plenty large enough to still be a viable complex.  I’m sure the eminent domain price wasn’t awful for a share of the property.

Never mind that ADOT probably didn't offer to buy the entire complex. With half gone, that's half of the property that doesn't need maintaining, thus half the amount of HOA dues required. Doubt it made much of a difference except to those displaced, of course. I am curious if ADOT offered compensation to those whose leases were cut short, or if lessee's were allowed to stay until the end, and only then was demolition proceeded with.

My assumption was it was apartments...could be wrong?  Either way it will be probably be convenient as all hell having two freeways right there.  It was nice being able to jump on AZ 51 and be in downtown in 5’minutes the last apparent in the last apparent I llived at in Phoenix.  It was on 32nd Street and Shea Boulevard between two on-ramps.

I'm thinking it was apartments as well. But since apartments usually require extended leases, ADOT would have had to contend with people who were under some legal right of residence. Cutting leases short is not impossible, but there's generally a fine. I hope ADOT let residents live out their leases. Obviously its different than buying single-family property, since the state is purchasing out the infrastructure from beneath you that you don't own.

I don't doubt that it will be nice having the 202 and 10 right outside your door, but if they keep building houses way out in what was once the "boondocks", it's going to be quite a busy area twenty years from now. I'd be looking to buy downtown, myself!

I used to rent when I owned a home and I want to say that you can write in some sort of clause regarding giving a certain number of days notice for eminent domain...(granted I haven’t looked at housing laws in years)  The West Valley is hardly a boon dock anymore, it used to be desert as far as the eye could see but the sprawl is pretty much all the way west to AZ 85 at this point.  I was the same distance from AZ 51 as those units are from I-10/AZ 202, with the right sound barriers the noise is almost non-existent. 

Regarding downtown, it’s never been the greatest place.  Most of the residential structures were pretty run down and walkability sucked even when the light rail  came in.  There was some new growth around Central when I left back in 2013, maybe things have improved since?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: jakeroot on January 07, 2019, 10:27:15 PM
I used to rent when I owned a home and I want to say that you can write in some sort of clause regarding giving a certain number of days notice for eminent domain...(granted I haven’t looked at housing laws in years)  The West Valley is hardly a boon dock anymore, it used to be desert as far as the eye could see but the sprawl is pretty much all the way west to AZ 85 at this point.  I was the same distance from AZ 51 as those units are from I-10/AZ 202, with the right sound barriers the noise is almost non-existent. 

Regarding downtown, it’s never been the greatest place.  Most of the residential structures were pretty run down and walkability sucked even when the light rail  came in.  There was some new growth around Central when I left back in 2013, maybe things have improved since?

I'm sure the negotiation process between the state and the apartment complex took several months or longer, and even longer between there and final eviction. They wouldn't just show up and ask everyone to leave within two weeks. Or at least, I wouldn't think. That's really brutal!

I'm not suggesting that the West Valley is boondocks now, but rather that the boondocks have moved further west as a result of the 101 and 303. The 202 is probably going to spur additional southern growth, and nothing's stopping more homes from being built near the 10/303 interchange and beyond, never mind the blank space in between.

When I was in Downtown Phoenix last December, it was actually pretty nice. Lots of new development and certainly plenty of places to eat, drink, etc. Is it an embarrassing downtown for as large of a city as it is? I'd say so, though it's still second to LA in most out-of-proportion downtown size relative to the metro area. Regardless, it's probably the most walkable area of the Phoenix metro, and I'm not really into car-dependency (as much as I like driving mine), so it'd be where I'd prefer to locate. Even if I worked outside downtown, nothing beats a reverse commute.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on January 07, 2019, 11:40:14 PM
I used to rent when I owned a home and I want to say that you can write in some sort of clause regarding giving a certain number of days notice for eminent domain...(granted I haven’t looked at housing laws in years)  The West Valley is hardly a boon dock anymore, it used to be desert as far as the eye could see but the sprawl is pretty much all the way west to AZ 85 at this point.  I was the same distance from AZ 51 as those units are from I-10/AZ 202, with the right sound barriers the noise is almost non-existent. 

Regarding downtown, it’s never been the greatest place.  Most of the residential structures were pretty run down and walkability sucked even when the light rail  came in.  There was some new growth around Central when I left back in 2013, maybe things have improved since?

I'm sure the negotiation process between the state and the apartment complex took several months or longer, and even longer between there and final eviction. They wouldn't just show up and ask everyone to leave within two weeks. Or at least, I wouldn't think. That's really brutal!

I'm not suggesting that the West Valley is boondocks now, but rather that the boondocks have moved further west as a result of the 101 and 303. The 202 is probably going to spur additional southern growth, and nothing's stopping more homes from being built near the 10/303 interchange and beyond, never mind the blank space in between.

When I was in Downtown Phoenix last December, it was actually pretty nice. Lots of new development and certainly plenty of places to eat, drink, etc. Is it an embarrassing downtown for as large of a city as it is? I'd say so, though it's still second to LA in most out-of-proportion downtown size relative to the metro area. Regardless, it's probably the most walkable area of the Phoenix metro, and I'm not really into car-dependency (as much as I like driving mine), so it'd be where I'd prefer to locate. Even if I worked outside downtown, nothing beats a reverse commute.

Given we're talking Arizona it would surprise me if the notice was short as possible.  Usually most laws are pretty aggressive in favor of business and government.

There is a ton of room for growth near the Gila River.  Right as I was leaving there was a ton of new developments popping up around Baseline Road.  It wouldn't surprise me if there is eventual infill all the way to the Gila Reservation much like the Salt River Reservation.

Phoenix is an interesting case study of how modern cities tended to develop in the heyday of freeways.  The sprawl in Phoenix is absolutely massive and if memory serves correctly the City is approaching 600 square miles.  The central core of Phoenix really got left in the dust by urban sprawl and really never caught up.  I actually used to enjoy running down there from Sunny Slope given the light traffic on the surface streets in the morning. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: jakeroot on January 08, 2019, 12:38:45 AM
There is a ton of room for growth near the Gila River.  Right as I was leaving there was a ton of new developments popping up around Baseline Road.  It wouldn't surprise me if there is eventual infill all the way to the Gila Reservation much like the Salt River Reservation.

Phoenix is an interesting case study of how modern cities tended to develop in the heyday of freeways.  The sprawl in Phoenix is absolutely massive and if memory serves correctly the City is approaching 600 square miles.  The central core of Phoenix really got left in the dust by urban sprawl and really never caught up.  I actually used to enjoy running down there from Sunny Slope given the light traffic on the surface streets in the morning.

There's definitely room to grow, but is there going to be room on the freeway? I'm worried that all these new freeways adding into the 10 is going to make it even busier than it already is. Growth is inevitable, but I don't feel like filling in the rural farm properties is neither the best nor only option.

Totally agree on your second point. Phoenix was one of only a few US cities that grew almost entirely after freeways became a thing, so naturally, its development style became conducive to freeway use. Which I totally understand, but I worry a little bit about long-term sustainability. Realistically, there's no reason Phoenix couldn't be a city 500 years from now (many European and Asian cities are much older), but by then, it's borders will have expanded to Los Angeles at this rate!
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kdk on January 11, 2019, 04:57:14 PM
I love that apartment complex that had like half their property taken for the freeway but they left the other half. Honestly if I was the complex, I'd just sell the whole thing to ADOT or bulldoze all the units and redevelop something else, instead of kicking out half your residents and having the other half pissed about a freeway out their window.

Looked plenty large enough to still be a viable complex.  I’m sure the eminent domain price wasn’t awful for a share of the property.

Never mind that ADOT probably didn't offer to buy the entire complex. With half gone, that's half of the property that doesn't need maintaining, thus half the amount of HOA dues required. Doubt it made much of a difference except to those displaced, of course. I am curious if ADOT offered compensation to those whose leases were cut short, or if lessee's were allowed to stay until the end, and only then was demolition proceeded with.

My assumption was it was apartments...could be wrong?  Either way it will be probably be convenient as all hell having two freeways right there.  It was nice being able to jump on AZ 51 and be in downtown in 5’minutes the last apparent in the last apparent I llived at in Phoenix.  It was on 32nd Street and Shea Boulevard between two on-ramps.

I'm thinking it was apartments as well. But since apartments usually require extended leases, ADOT would have had to contend with people who were under some legal right of residence. Cutting leases short is not impossible, but there's generally a fine. I hope ADOT let residents live out their leases. Obviously its different than buying single-family property, since the state is purchasing out the infrastructure from beneath you that you don't own.

I don't doubt that it will be nice having the 202 and 10 right outside your door, but if they keep building houses way out in what was once the "boondocks", it's going to be quite a busy area twenty years from now. I'd be looking to buy downtown, myself!

This freeway alignment was set for the past decade so it was no surprise they would have eventually been taking those units out.  Usually apartment leases are no longer than a year anyway so this was all planned for well in advance so it's not like someone's lease had to be ended early, worst thing is someone may have been renewing every year and was finally told that "after 2018 you can't renew this unit".

Regarding I-10 becoming a mess with all these freeway interchanges in a short span, I agree.  I think it's become the most dangerous and congested road in the state now.  I avoid it at all times on weekdays if possible, being that the backups that used to start at 3pm a few years ago are now almost an all-day thing.  Weekends aren't as bad but are starting to become problematic as well.  I suspect the next push will be for the reliever freeway that will parallel I-10 south of there will move up in priority.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on January 11, 2019, 07:37:22 PM
I love that apartment complex that had like half their property taken for the freeway but they left the other half. Honestly if I was the complex, I'd just sell the whole thing to ADOT or bulldoze all the units and redevelop something else, instead of kicking out half your residents and having the other half pissed about a freeway out their window.

Those remaining apartments are currently empty. I found info regarding the properties at this link:

https://www.azdot.gov/docs/default-source/right-of-way-properties/l-c-018b_w1q.pdf?sfvrsn=2

As far as properties that were demolished to build the new freeway, it seems that most of the public's attention was on what was torn down along the Pecos Rd corridor in Ahwatukee. In comparison, I didn't hear too much about properties along 59th Ave, or along I-10 between 67th Ave and 51st Ave.

As far as the Loop 202 construction, ADOT says they are 2/3 of the way through with the entire project. From various pics/videos I've seen, it looks like some of the Pecos segment and some of the Salt River segment are the closest to completion.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on January 29, 2019, 02:20:00 AM
Some recent drone footage of the Loop 202 construction, from Broadway Rd to I-10:

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: rte66man on January 30, 2019, 06:33:04 AM
I found it unusual that one of the shots showed a completed sign gantry even though no pavement had been put down yet.  Here in OK that is usually one of the last items to be completed.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on January 30, 2019, 08:16:46 PM
I found it unusual that one of the shots showed a completed sign gantry even though no pavement had been put down yet.  Here in OK that is usually one of the last items to be completed.

I believe that's one of the VMS signs. I've also been a little curious as to why they've installed and seemingly turned on the VMS signs before the pavement underneath has been laid (seems like the chances of being damaged by construction equipment would be higher considering they will be paving, striping, etc. underneath the signs).
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on February 05, 2019, 10:49:26 AM
By this time next week, traffic will be able to use a small stretch of the future South Mountain Freeway:

https://azdot.gov/media/News/news-release/2019/02/04/first-pecos-road-traffic-moving-onto-south-mountain-freeway-lanes
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on February 13, 2019, 12:35:17 AM
I was in Phoenix for the day yesterday and got to finally see the 202/10 interchange myself for the first time. My first impression is "holy crap, that thing is HUGE!!" when seeing those ramps from the bottom. It's changed a ton since the last time i passed through there which may have been about 2 years ago.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on February 25, 2019, 07:28:02 PM
The City of Glendale is renaming its section of Bethany Home Road near State Farm Stadium to Cardinals Way.  There is a photo of the new sign posted, and it is not in Clearview.  Glendale's use of Clearview was apparently short-lived, possibly even experimental.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on March 02, 2019, 09:39:14 AM
So here is video of the first section of "freeway" open to the public. (Pecos Segment)

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on March 23, 2019, 05:32:42 PM
Most recent video footage of the South Mountain Freeway below (thanks to First Take Aerial).

I-10 Papago Segment:



Salt River Segment:



Center Segment:



Pecos Segment:

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on April 30, 2019, 01:50:06 AM
Another section of the South Mountain Freeway is scheduled to open in May. Traffic on current Pecos Rd between 32nd St and I-10 will be shifted onto the freeway alignment. 40th St will be closed at Pecos Rd for a few months while the rest of the Loop 202/40th St interchange is constructed.

https://www.azdot.gov/media/News/news-release/2019/04/29/additional-pecos-road-traffic-moving-onto-south-mountain-freeway
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on June 14, 2019, 05:28:18 PM
I wonder, do any of the Skyline DMS still have the narrow font issue? I was on I-17 NB and it appears to be using the normal wide font. The ones on L-202 never had this issue, not sure about I-17.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on July 11, 2019, 05:10:41 PM
Highway construction projects going on around the valley:

-- Loop 101: Two separate widening projects. One from I-17 to Pima Rd/Princess Dr in north Scottsdale. The other from US 60 (Superstition Freeway) to Loop 202 (Santan Freeway). At least one new general purpose lane in each direction.

-- I-17: Bridge replacements at Pinnacle Peak Rd and Happy Valley Rd. The Happy Valley interchange is being redone to remove the roundabouts and replace with a DDI. When it opens, this should be Arizona's first full DDI to open. The other DDIs under construction on the Loop 202 (South Mountain Freeway) are only going to be half interchanges (at 17th Ave and Desert Foothills Pkwy).

-- I-10: Other than the new interchange with Loop 202, a new interchange at Fairway Dr (or El Mirage Rd alignment).

-- Loop 202: The South Mountain Freeway seems to be progressing well. A video link shows most of the alignment. (Note, the video is real estate related. It just happens to cover most of the construction zone.)


Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Concrete Bob on July 11, 2019, 11:38:20 PM

You saw the South Mountain Freeway under construction...…..Now feast your eyes and ears on this 1960s Phoenix classic....

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on July 16, 2019, 03:45:51 PM
This video shows a more recent video of Loop 202 (the Salt River and Papago segments). Goes from the Salt River Bridge to the I-10 interchange.

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: The Ghostbuster on July 16, 2019, 04:38:19 PM
After Loop 202 is completed, what proposed Phoenix area freeway may be constructed next?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on July 17, 2019, 11:05:31 AM
After Loop 202 is completed, what proposed Phoenix area freeway may be constructed next?

I know there's plans for an interim phase of SR 24 out towards Apache Junction that will be built fairly soon. Also extending the 303 further south is happening in the next couple of years. I think the next "new" project will be SR 30. Probably see something happening there within the next 5 years or so.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Zonie on July 17, 2019, 12:17:56 PM
After Loop 202 is completed, what proposed Phoenix area freeway may be constructed next?

An extension of the Northern Parkway is in progress. 

The Central District projects are here: https://www.azdot.gov/projects/central-district-projects/
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on August 09, 2019, 11:55:43 AM
So signage on existing freeways is slowly being replaced to reflect the Loop 202 extension. Most of the newer signage is on I-10 in west Phoenix, I-10 in the Ahwatukee/Chandler area, and a stretch of the Loop 202 Santan in Chandler.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Zonie on August 09, 2019, 12:30:03 PM
Noticed that on the interim stretch of Loop 202 -- the mileage sign is up listing the 40th St., 32nd St. and 24th St. exits.  Whether the 32nd St. exit will be ready in time remains to be seen.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: KeithE4Phx on August 09, 2019, 12:42:29 PM
Noticed that on the interim stretch of Loop 202 -- the mileage sign is up listing the 40th St., 32nd St. and 24th St. exits.  Whether the 32nd St. exit will be ready in time remains to be seen.

I thought there wasn't going to be an interchange at 32nd St.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: codeGR on August 09, 2019, 12:54:53 PM
The plans for the project were modified and the interchange ramps will be built after the freeway opens. https://www.azdot.gov/projects/central-district-projects/loop-202-(south-mountain-freeway)/stay-in-the-loop/media/2018/11/07/plans-advance-for-32nd-street-south-mountain-freeway-interchange (https://www.azdot.gov/projects/central-district-projects/loop-202-(south-mountain-freeway)/stay-in-the-loop/media/2018/11/07/plans-advance-for-32nd-street-south-mountain-freeway-interchange)
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on August 10, 2019, 12:17:53 AM
Noticed that on the interim stretch of Loop 202 -- the mileage sign is up listing the 40th St., 32nd St. and 24th St. exits.  Whether the 32nd St. exit will be ready in time remains to be seen.

I would love to see some updated pictures or videos. There had been a channel doing full monthly updates on Youtube, but they haven't posted since earlier this spring. There was another channel doing some fantastic drone shots as well, but they also haven't uploaded since April or so. I don't live in the Phoenix area anymore and loved following along with the progress through Youtube.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on August 10, 2019, 12:15:17 PM
Noticed that on the interim stretch of Loop 202 -- the mileage sign is up listing the 40th St., 32nd St. and 24th St. exits.  Whether the 32nd St. exit will be ready in time remains to be seen.

I would love to see some updated pictures or videos. There had been a channel doing full monthly updates on Youtube, but they haven't posted since earlier this spring. There was another channel doing some fantastic drone shots as well, but they also haven't uploaded since April or so. I don't live in the Phoenix area anymore and loved following along with the progress through Youtube.

I love following the construction process along myself. At least one guy doing the regular Loop 202 drone updates said on Facebook that it was too hot for his equipment. He plans on posting more updates in September.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: DJStephens on August 10, 2019, 08:37:28 PM
After Loop 202 is completed, what proposed Phoenix area freeway may be constructed next?

I know there's plans for an interim phase of SR 24 out towards Apache Junction that will be built fairly soon. Also extending the 303 further south is happening in the next couple of years. I think the next "new" project will be SR 30. Probably see something happening there within the next 5 years or so.

Was under the impression that 24 is going SE into the San Tan valley.  Or is that part of Apache Junction?   
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: KeithE4Phx on August 10, 2019, 09:22:01 PM
After Loop 202 is completed, what proposed Phoenix area freeway may be constructed next?

I know there's plans for an interim phase of SR 24 out towards Apache Junction that will be built fairly soon. Also extending the 303 further south is happening in the next couple of years. I think the next "new" project will be SR 30. Probably see something happening there within the next 5 years or so.

Was under the impression that 24 is going SE into the San Tan valley.  Or is that part of Apache Junction?

I think it's going to be extended as a parkway (i.e. freeway ramps that will handle all the traffic, but without overpasses as yet) for three miles between Ellsworth and Meridian Rds.  The latter is the Maricopa/Pinal County line.  All of this extension is within the city limits of Mesa or in unincorporated Maricopa County.  It'll be upgraded to a full freeway later.  How much later, I have no idea, but IIRC, it depends on what Pinal County wants to do with their portion of AZ 24.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on August 11, 2019, 01:32:05 AM
After Loop 202 is completed, what proposed Phoenix area freeway may be constructed next?

I know there's plans for an interim phase of SR 24 out towards Apache Junction that will be built fairly soon. Also extending the 303 further south is happening in the next couple of years. I think the next "new" project will be SR 30. Probably see something happening there within the next 5 years or so.

Was under the impression that 24 is going SE into the San Tan valley.  Or is that part of Apache Junction?

I believe it's going to extend to the east roughtly between Williams Field and Pecos out towards Ironwood. So it will be around the northern edge of San Tan Valley.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on August 11, 2019, 02:39:29 AM
After Loop 202 is completed, what proposed Phoenix area freeway may be constructed next?

I know there's plans for an interim phase of SR 24 out towards Apache Junction that will be built fairly soon. Also extending the 303 further south is happening in the next couple of years. I think the next "new" project will be SR 30. Probably see something happening there within the next 5 years or so.

Was under the impression that 24 is going SE into the San Tan valley.  Or is that part of Apache Junction?

I believe it's going to extend to the east roughtly between Williams Field and Pecos out towards Ironwood. So it will be around the northern edge of San Tan Valley.

Map of the proposed path of AZ 24 is in the link:

https://www.azdot.gov/projects/central-district-projects/sr-24-ellsworth-rd-to-ironwood-dr-interim-phase-ii/overview
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on August 11, 2019, 05:24:50 PM
Photos of the new South Mountain Freeway interchange signs at I-10 EB are posted on ADOT's Facebook page. They are APL signs and no more girly Clearview.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: codeGR on August 23, 2019, 08:38:04 PM
I'm visiting from Michigan. Noticed on the South Mountain Freeway that these cantilevered sign structures have been put up. Are these new to AZ? I know AZ has most recently used a tubular design.
(https://imgur.com/dokRliR.jpg)
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on August 24, 2019, 07:30:58 PM
I'm visiting from Michigan. Noticed on the South Mountain Freeway that these cantilevered sign structures have been put up. Are these new to AZ? I know AZ has most recently used a tubular design.
(https://imgur.com/dokRliR.jpg)

Are those structures near future entrance/exit ramps?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on August 24, 2019, 07:33:01 PM
Video of the proposed SR 30 alignment between Loop 303 and Loop 202 in the west valley:

https://www.azdot.gov/planning/transportation-studies/state-route-30/videos


Video of proposed improvements to the Broadway Curve section of I-10:

https://www.azdot.gov/planning/transportation-studies/i-10-broadway-curve-i-17-(split)-to-l202-(santan)
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: codeGR on August 24, 2019, 07:38:58 PM
Yeah, near the ramps. I think some have signs installed already. I'll take another look later today.
They are still using the tubular design gantry for the DMS.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: codeGR on August 24, 2019, 08:21:00 PM
Here's an example with sign installed.
(https://i.imgur.com/nYTErUU.jpg)
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on August 24, 2019, 10:47:23 PM
As for these new gantries, I wonder if these were a contractor's choice as a cost-saving measure.  The SMF is a design-build-maintain project, and Connect 202 Partners has a 40 year maintenance contract on it.  Based on what I have seen with other DB and P3 projects, they tend to deviate a bit more from normal state DOT standards.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: jakeroot on August 25, 2019, 01:02:26 AM
Here's an example with sign installed.
(https://i.imgur.com/nYTErUU.jpg)

I notice the new sign uses the FHWA typeface. Anyone know when ADOT transitioned back? I'm not sure how many signing contracts were approved before the end of the IA.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on August 25, 2019, 05:03:42 PM
Here's an example with sign installed.

I notice the new sign uses the FHWA typeface. Anyone know when ADOT transitioned back? I'm not sure how many signing contracts were approved before the end of the IA.


ADOT stopped using Clearview in late 2015, and ever since the interim approval was reinstated they have chosen not to re-adopt it.

Also, I think another change along the line is that the SMF was originally supposed to use Skyline DMS, but was later changed to Daktronics color DMS.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ztonyg on August 29, 2019, 02:12:20 PM
I'm visiting from Michigan. Noticed on the South Mountain Freeway that these cantilevered sign structures have been put up. Are these new to AZ? I know AZ has most recently used a tubular design.
(https://imgur.com/dokRliR.jpg)

Interesting. It seems like even on newer signs that ADOT has put up elsewhere they have all been monotube. I'm going to guess that this is a contractor design.

Until the 1990s this was what ADOT used to install in the field: https://goo.gl/maps/oXoC7Nq3y7Y5skh78
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on August 29, 2019, 03:29:07 PM
Remember that the SMF is a design-build-maintain project, and in DB/DBM/DBOM/DBFOM projects the contractor can be more flexible in the design than a traditional DBB project. I'm guessing these gantries might have been selected by Connect 202 Partners, ADOT's DBM partner on the project.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on August 30, 2019, 12:19:25 AM
Remember that the SMF is a design-build-maintain project, and in DB/DBM/DBOM/DBFOM projects the contractor can be more flexible in the design than a traditional DBB project. I'm guessing these gantries might have been selected by Connect 202 Partners, ADOT's DBM partner on the project.

I also believe that there's been a pretty big focus on "aesthetics" with this freeway. Lots of little detail things they've planned in to make it visually unique. Wouldn't be surprised if they specifically went for different gantries for that reason.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on August 30, 2019, 10:08:50 AM
BTW, there are also APL signs installed at the I-10/L-202 SanTan/SMF interchange in the EB direction; they haven't bern posted on ADOT's FB as far as I recall, but I noticed them yesterday.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Zonie on August 30, 2019, 01:32:35 PM
That was part of the shutdown last weekend, aside from moving the EB L202/Pecos traffic into a different (safer) alignment. 

There are also APL signs on WB I-10 approaching L202.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ItalianScorpion on September 05, 2019, 07:37:39 AM
After Loop 202 is completed, what proposed Phoenix area freeway may be constructed next?

I know there's plans for an interim phase of SR 24 out towards Apache Junction that will be built fairly soon. Also extending the 303 further south is happening in the next couple of years. I think the next "new" project will be SR 30. Probably see something happening there within the next 5 years or so.

Was under the impression that 24 is going SE into the San Tan valley.  Or is that part of Apache Junction?

I think it's going to be extended as a parkway (i.e. freeway ramps that will handle all the traffic, but without overpasses as yet) for three miles between Ellsworth and Meridian Rds.  The latter is the Maricopa/Pinal County line.  All of this extension is within the city limits of Mesa or in unincorporated Maricopa County.  It'll be upgraded to a full freeway later.  How much later, I have no idea, but IIRC, it depends on what Pinal County wants to do with their portion of AZ 24.

Where did you see it is going to be extended as a parkway? I’m curious if that’s the case because everything I’ve seen shows regular freeway plans.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on September 05, 2019, 10:34:54 AM
Plans for the temporary alignment of the future AZ 24 extension can be seen in the link below:

https://azdot.gov/projects/central-district-projects/state-route-24-ellsworth-road-ironwood-drive-interim-phase-ii
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on September 05, 2019, 11:54:22 AM
Plans for the temporary alignment of the future AZ 24 extension can be seen in the link below:

https://azdot.gov/projects/central-district-projects/state-route-24-ellsworth-road-ironwood-drive-interim-phase-ii

So essentially how AZ 303 was mostly constructed east of Grand Avenue.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on September 07, 2019, 01:15:38 PM
The first interchange is open on the South Mountain Freeway. It's at 40th St.

https://azdot.gov/adot-news/south-mountain-freeway%E2%80%99s-first-interchange-opens-schedule-0

Some links from Facebook and Twitter:

https://twitter.com/ArizonaDOT/status/1170342453871689729

https://www.facebook.com/AZDOT/videos/405361956781933/
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on September 07, 2019, 01:58:07 PM
Two more videos cover the entire South Mountain section of Loop 202. Progress up to early September.


Ahwatukee section



Laveen section
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on September 07, 2019, 09:53:41 PM
ADOT just posted a link about the planned North-South Freeway in Pinal County. It's in regards to the environmental impact statement.

https://azdot.gov/adot-news/draft-north-south-corridor-environmental-impact-statement-available-review?fbclid=IwAR3U8OjpHEehLDvoEVkoQjYJ-KpriTGwNI6RXJb0iIN98sOp4URtA3p7wu0
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: KeithE4Phx on September 08, 2019, 01:17:09 AM
ADOT just posted a link about the planned North-South Freeway in Pinal County. It's in regards to the environmental impact statement.

https://azdot.gov/adot-news/draft-north-south-corridor-environmental-impact-statement-available-review?fbclid=IwAR3U8OjpHEehLDvoEVkoQjYJ-KpriTGwNI6RXJb0iIN98sOp4URtA3p7wu0

A freeway there would be a godsend to us east Mesa/AJ/Gilbert/Santan Valley residents.  Right now, the shortest route to Tucson for us is US 60 to AZ 79, unless one wants to go way out of the way and take the Loop 202 to I-10.  Too bad it likely won't be built in my lifetime.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: splashflash on September 08, 2019, 05:09:21 AM
The proposed freeway parallels SR79, albeit miles away.  Is that route developed to such an extent that converting it into a freeway would be infeasible?

I see that US60 would be rerouted for several miles together with the new freeway.  Perhaps the project would be staged in phases and that work would be done in the nearer future?

A connection with SR24 is shown,  and part of the freeway project, a logical move, but does not connect east to SR79.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: jakeroot on September 08, 2019, 11:59:20 PM
ADOT just posted a link about the planned North-South Freeway in Pinal County. It's in regards to the environmental impact statement.

https://azdot.gov/adot-news/draft-north-south-corridor-environmental-impact-statement-available-review?fbclid=IwAR3U8OjpHEehLDvoEVkoQjYJ-KpriTGwNI6RXJb0iIN98sOp4URtA3p7wu0

A freeway there would be a godsend to us east Mesa/AJ/Gilbert/Santan Valley residents.  Right now, the shortest route to Tucson for us is US 60 to AZ 79, unless one wants to go way out of the way and take the Loop 202 to I-10.  Too bad it likely won't be built in my lifetime.

Admittedly, my experience is with Phoenix, which I think uses separate funding for their freeways. But the EIS process does seem to take a lot less time in Arizona. I bet it'll fully built by 2027. Mark my words.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on September 09, 2019, 01:52:01 AM
I'm curious just how feasible piggy-backing off some of the existing roads out there might help them get it done cheaper and easier. For example, using the brand-new I-10/AZ 87 interchange (no, it's not flyovers, I realize) and basically overlaying a new highway on top of 87 at least part of the way there might be better than a completely new alignment.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on September 09, 2019, 09:53:17 AM
ADOT has been pushing Florence and Coolidge as the next big suburbs for the last two decades, I’m not convinced.  There is still a crap ton of empty desert out there beyond San Tan that probably won’t fill up soon.  While the alternate to I-10 in the Gila Reservation would be nice for East Valley traffic I can’t help but question the projections...much like I-11 west of the White Tanks. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on September 18, 2019, 03:14:34 PM
Recent driving video of the Pecos segment of Loop 202 South Mountain Freeway (shortly before the 40th St ramps opened):

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on September 30, 2019, 11:39:05 AM
One thing I just noticed that is new to Arizona is painted shields on the pavement at interchanges. I just saw new US 60 shields painted on Loop 101 SB in Tempe. I presume ADOT resisted these due to potential sun fade (particularly with Interstate shields); I wonder how will they hold up.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on October 15, 2019, 09:11:26 AM
Video of South Mountain Freeway corridor (from the Salt River, Papago, and Center Segments):

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Buffaboy on October 16, 2019, 12:08:40 PM
Passing through Arizona and Phoenix right now, I am very impressed with the quality of the highways here. Obviously the weather is not as brutal as the East Coast and Great Lakes region, but even still everything just feels clean. It makes Buffalo look like a real one-horse town. The HOV lanes are also very useful.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: rte66man on October 16, 2019, 01:44:36 PM
One thing I just noticed that is new to Arizona is painted shields on the pavement at interchanges. I just saw new US 60 shields painted on Loop 101 SB in Tempe. I presume ADOT resisted these due to potential sun fade (particularly with Interstate shields); I wonder how will they hold up.

If it's like the ones in Oklahoma City, not very long. It seems as if they last about 2 years before they become mostly illegible.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on October 21, 2019, 05:38:41 PM
Here is a recent drone video of the Center Segment of Loop 202 South Mountain Freeway.


Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on October 22, 2019, 11:18:37 PM
The Town of Gilbert now seems to be using FYG for its Pedestrian Crossing signs at least in RRFB installations.  I'm not sure it is exclusively used for new RRFB installations or if it is applied universally for all new installations.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: compdude787 on October 24, 2019, 03:35:58 PM
The Town of Gilbert now seems to be using FYG for its Pedestrian Crossing signs at least in RRFB installations.  I'm not sure it is exclusively used for new RRFB installations or if it is applied universally for all new installations.

Can you explain what those acronyms mean?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Zonie on October 24, 2019, 06:27:11 PM
FYG = Fluorescent Yellow-Green


RRFB = Rectangular Rapid Flashing Beacon 
https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/intersection/conventional/unsignalized/tech_sum/fhwasa09009/
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on November 08, 2019, 07:28:29 PM
Saw in a Facebook post today (Friends of the South Mountain Freeway) that there's a tentative date of Sat, Dec 21 for a freeway opening celebration. The freeway will open to vehicle traffic by Mon, Dec 23 or Tue, Dec 24.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Concrete Bob on November 09, 2019, 01:28:24 AM
That will be one hell of a great Christmas gift to the residents of Maricopa County.  It will take a lot of pressure off of I-10 and I-17, and allow through drivers to bypass Downtown Phoenix.  When freeways open up in Phoenix, there are a lot of freeway opening celebrations, and they are well-attended by the locals.  Freeway-wise, today's Phoenix is a whole lot different from the Phoenix of the 1970s, and I find the evolution and development of Phoenix' freeways amazing, considering how late they got started on their system.   
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on November 10, 2019, 11:00:06 AM
So it looks like from ADOT's Loop 202 website, "late 2019 opening" means the mainline freeway will be open to traffic, but certain interchanges, frontage roads, and cross streets won't be fully complete until 2020. For anyone in the Ahwatukee area, next weekend a full weekend closure is planned for the Pecos section, and the freeway section from 17th Ave to 40th St will be open by Mon, Nov 18.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: DJStephens on November 10, 2019, 11:40:27 AM
Does this include the entire mainline??  Or just the Pecos Segment??  Am of the opinion they were still working on the cut across South Mountain.   
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on November 10, 2019, 01:05:06 PM
Most recent video I could find of any Loop 202 construction progress. From the South Mountain area to I-10.

https://www.facebook.com/AZrob.olson/videos/2768068626578758/?fref=search&__tn__=%2Cd%2CP-R&eid=ARDS3QXZ2ioF0LliqDYjprqBlhv93TUdOdvp9DhjRnrxqCymFiVQvLYAb90VpyUgou_wB9jrXwPZOyQ8
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Kniwt on November 16, 2019, 11:49:39 AM
The Arizona Republic reports that plans are underway for a five-mile extension of the (currently very short) AZ 24 freeway to open in 2022.
https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/mesa/2019/11/16/arizona-department-transportation-add-5-miles-state-route-24/4194684002/

Quote
The Arizona Department of Transportation plans to extend state Route 24 in southeast Mesa, given its proximity to the growing Phoenix-Mesa Gateway Airport region.

The Gateway Freeway that opened between Loop 202 and Ellsworth Road in 2014 is currently just one mile, making it the Valley's shortest freeway.

The plan is to add another five miles to Ironwood Drive in Pinal County.

(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2019/11/14/PPHX/63685cd5-b985-4781-ab91-ed50f5d4c6f4-ADOT_SR_24.jpg)
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on November 16, 2019, 12:26:10 PM
Does this include the entire mainline??  Or just the Pecos Segment??  Am of the opinion they were still working on the cut across South Mountain.

The Pecos segment should be open by Monday. It will be two lanes in each direction with a lower speed limit until the entire freeway opens in late December.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Bobby5280 on November 16, 2019, 12:52:14 PM
Quote from: Kniwt
The Arizona Republic reports that plans are underway for a five-mile extension of the (currently very short) AZ 24 freeway to open in 2022.

(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2019/11/14/PPHX/63685cd5-b985-4781-ab91-ed50f5d4c6f4-ADOT_SR_24.jpg)

This diagram appears to show the freeway still ending at Ellsworth Road (with a newly completed full freeway exit) and freeway-ready frontage roads built out to Ironwood Drive. The article states ADOT is looking at extending the freeway corridor farther South to stay ahead of development in the region. There is no funding available for an extension past Ironwood Drive. If ADOT is going to extend the highway farther, why not extend it West to US-60 just South of Gold Canyon? That would make more sense. I get it that Queen Creek and San Tran Valley is growing, but that's going to be yet another freeway corridor need, wrapping around to Florence, Coolidge and perhaps back West to Casa Grande.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: splashflash on November 16, 2019, 07:00:59 PM
Quote from: Kniwt
The Arizona Republic reports that plans are underway for a five-mile extension of the (currently very short) AZ 24 freeway to open in 2022.

(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2019/11/14/PPHX/63685cd5-b985-4781-ab91-ed50f5d4c6f4-ADOT_SR_24.jpg)

This diagram appears to show the freeway still ending at Ellsworth Road (with a newly completed full freeway exit) and freeway-ready frontage roads built out to Ironwood Drive. The article states ADOT is looking at extending the freeway corridor farther South to stay ahead of development in the region. There is no funding available for an extension past Ironwood Drive. If ADOT is going to extend the highway farther, why not extend it West to US-60 just South of Gold Canyon? That would make more sense. I get it that Queen Creek and San Tran Valley is growing, but that's going to be yet another freeway corridor need, wrapping around to Florence, Coolidge and perhaps back West to Casa Grande.

Well, there is a nice map in this study showing that 24 would link to a new north-south freeway, which itself would link to US60.  A direct connection beyond the north-south freeway to US60 would seem logical...
From Reply#312 from Road Warrior, earlier in this thread.
https://azdot.gov/adot-news/draft-north-south-corridor-environmental-impact-statement-available-review?fbclid=IwAR3U8OjpHEehLDvoEVkoQjYJ-KpriTGwNI6RXJb0iIN98sOp4URtA3p7wu0
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: KeithE4Phx on November 16, 2019, 08:37:21 PM
Well, there is a nice map in this study showing that 24 would link to a new north-south freeway, which itself would link to US60.  A direct connection beyond the north-south freeway to US60 would seem logical...
From Reply#312 from Road Warrior, earlier in this thread.
https://azdot.gov/adot-news/draft-north-south-corridor-environmental-impact-statement-available-review?fbclid=IwAR3U8OjpHEehLDvoEVkoQjYJ-KpriTGwNI6RXJb0iIN98sOp4URtA3p7wu0

Might as well start building two more lanes in each direction to I-10, between the the junction with AZ 87 and at least downtown Tucson, right now.  The added traffic to and from from the east valley will make the 10 an even bigger nightmare than it already is.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Bobby5280 on November 16, 2019, 10:00:07 PM
ADOT is going to have to look at expanding AZ-79 between Florence and Oracle Junction, along with potentially more expansion of I-10 itself.

I haven't heard before about the North-South Freeway Corridor proposal from Apache Junction down to Eloy and I-10. The idea definitely makes sense considering how communities Southeast of Phoenix are growing rapidly. Still I think it would be bad to simply end an extension of the AZ-24 freeway at the North-South corridor. If the AZ-24 freeway was pushed farther directly East to US-60 the end result might help relieve some congestion along the US-60 freeway in Mesa and Tempe. US-60 traffic coming from places like Globe heading to points well West of downtown Phoenix would be able to use AZ-24 and its connection to the AZ-202 loop to bypass the downtown area.

Whatever ADOT chooses to do, they better start trying to secure ROW ASAP. These big subdivisions and entire "planned communities" can gobble up many thousands upon thousands of acres worth of real estate in giant chunks all at once. If it were up to me I'd build a single two lane road along the edge of the proposed corridor and reserve 300'-450' off to the left or right of it. The initial 2 lane route could either be one half of a frontage road pair. But frontage roads aren't needed everywhere. So the road could be Super 2 in other spots.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Verlanka on November 17, 2019, 05:09:00 AM
Well, there is a nice map in this study showing that 24 would link to a new north-south freeway, which itself would link to US60.  A direct connection beyond the north-south freeway to US60 would seem logical...
From Reply#312 from Road Warrior, earlier in this thread.
https://azdot.gov/adot-news/draft-north-south-corridor-environmental-impact-statement-available-review?fbclid=IwAR3U8OjpHEehLDvoEVkoQjYJ-KpriTGwNI6RXJb0iIN98sOp4URtA3p7wu0

Might as well start building two more lanes in each direction to I-10, between the the junction with AZ 87 and at least downtown Tucson, right now.  The added traffic to and from from the east valley will make the 10 an even bigger nightmare than it already is.
If this keeps up, they might as well make I-10 twelve lanes in each direction between Tucson and Phoenix.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Bobby5280 on November 17, 2019, 01:41:23 PM
I think one of the purposes of Interstate 11 concepts past Phoenix through Tucson is to take some of the load off I-10. Unfortunately the routing is West of I-10 and doesn't serve all the communities to the East of I-10.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on November 19, 2019, 03:25:31 PM
Some drone footage of the Loop 202 (Pecos segment) between I-10 and 17th Ave:

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: CtrlAltDel on November 19, 2019, 08:22:47 PM
There's some "interesting" driving in that video, especially at 1:53 and 2:56. I suppose they could be contractors, though.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on November 20, 2019, 06:06:02 AM
There's some "interesting" driving in that video, especially at 1:53 and 2:56. I suppose they could be contractors, though.

Some footage might have been mixed with the "pre-opening" footage from the weekend. There's a video of the area during the past weekend closure:

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Kniwt on November 22, 2019, 06:23:01 PM
The Arizona Republic reports that expansion of I-10 at the Broadway Curve will start in either late 2020 or early 2021 and continue until 2024:
https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/tempe-traffic/2019/11/22/adot-proposes-1-10-improvements-phoenix-chandler/4245450002/

Quote
Proposed improvements to one of metro Phoenix's busiest stretches of Interstate 10 could ease rush hour commutes in the coming years.

The Arizona Department of Transportation has been studying improvements to 11 miles of I-10 between the Interstate 17 split near Sky Harbor Airport and Loop 202 in Chandler, known as the Broadway Curve.

That stretch of the freeway has seen increased traffic in recent years, especially during morning and evening commutes, ADOT said.

An average of 287,000 vehicles traveled daily on I-10 in the area west of Arizona 143 in 2018.

(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2019/11/22/PPHX/eaa3c3c8-a96a-45ad-97aa-afc47d1315e7-i10-broadwaycurve-i17-l202-map.jpg)

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: DJStephens on November 22, 2019, 10:28:44 PM
Pretty amazing, if they could pull that off.  20 lanes.  Including the C/D roads.   Can only dream of something a fraction of that, in backward New Mexico.   
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on November 22, 2019, 11:00:45 PM
That section of I-10 at the Broadway Curve could have used an upgrade like that a decade ago.  I don't recall a time when the I-10/US 60 junction wasn't a traffic nightmare during daylight hours. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: DJStephens on November 24, 2019, 01:08:40 PM
Definitely needed.  There is no coherent Frontage or C/D roads in this area.   This proposal appears to rectify that.   Of course, nothing of this magnitude or scope is needed in New Mexico either, due to fairly low population and business activity.   I-25 S of the Big I though, should have been trenched, with C/D roads added at the same time as the Big I project.  Instead, quite a bit was wasted humping up, to connect to a late fifties elevated section.   
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Kniwt on November 25, 2019, 02:05:21 PM
The Associated Press reports that Phoenix will shut off its red-light and photo-radar enforcement cameras.
https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix-traffic/2019/11/23/phoenix-stop-using-red-light-speed-enforcement-cameras/4279975002/

Quote
PHOENIX – The city will no longer use red-light and speed-enforcement cameras at intersections starting with the new year.

A proposal to extend the contract for the cameras beyond Jan. 1 failed by a 4-5 City Council vote this week.

Councilman Michael Nowakowski told KJZZ radio he voted Wednesday against the extension because city staff never supplied him with the information he requested months ago.

Phoenix currently has fixed red-light cameras at 12 intersections in addition to speed-enforcement units that can be moved around school zones.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Plutonic Panda on November 25, 2019, 02:22:02 PM
This is great news! Hopefully other cities and states follow suit.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: 21stCenturyRoad on November 26, 2019, 02:20:36 PM
Does anyone know why AZ 303 begins with Mile 104? I’m aware of Arizona’s method of mileage starting points, but I can’t find out how they came up with Mile 104 as a starting point.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ztonyg on November 26, 2019, 09:09:28 PM
Does anyone know why AZ 303 begins with Mile 104? I’m aware of Arizona’s method of mileage starting points, but I can’t find out how they came up with Mile 104 as a starting point.

I believe they added 100 to the mile numbers for some reason (potentially future expansion). Exit 104 is 4 miles north of the future start of the freeway at AZ30.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Concrete Bob on November 26, 2019, 10:50:25 PM
I've seen planning maps where Loop 303 heads south of the future Tres Rios Freeway (SR 30) down towards the future Hassayampa Freeway (I-11).  Then, it is concurrent with I-11 for about 5 or 10 miles, and then heads south to I-8.  Whether that accounts for an additional 100 miles of roadway south of SR 30 is anyone's guess at this point.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Zonie on November 27, 2019, 05:59:51 PM
MM 100 was arbitrary -- that way there wasn't a need to make a mass update should Loop 303 go further south than SR 30.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on November 28, 2019, 11:59:09 AM
I saw from earlier in the thread that ADOT actually posted on their Facebook page the reasoning behind adding 100 to the old mileposts on Loop 303:


"Basically, the 303 milepost numbers provide flexibility. They are based on milepost 100 being near the intersection of Loop 303 and MC 85, which is the current terminus in the Maricopa Association of Government's (MAG) Regional Transportation Plan. starting with milepost 100 ensures that there would be no negative milepost numbering as MAG, which is responsible for long-range transportation planning within Maricopa County, considers whether Loop 303 should extend further south."

Unknown to most of the public, original plans for Loop 101 had a starting point of MC 85/Buckeye Rd in Tolleson.  If 99th Ave had been used as the alignment for Loop 101 back then, who knows what that area could have been like today?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on November 28, 2019, 12:18:42 PM
Another drone video of the South Mountain Freeway's Center segment. Video below:

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Exit58 on November 28, 2019, 01:02:38 PM
Regarding the South Mountain Freeway, it sounds like it was renamed last month to the ”˜Ed Pastor Freeway’ according to some outlets. Is this just a ”˜in memory of’ type thing or is it a legal name change? It seems like everyone is still calling it the South Mountain Freeway, which is preferable IMO. I don’t care for freeways named after people, it just seems weird. Piestewa Freeway gets a pass in my book because it’s technically named after a mountain.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: KeithE4Phx on November 28, 2019, 03:34:38 PM
Regarding the South Mountain Freeway, it sounds like it was renamed last month to the ”˜Ed Pastor Freeway’ according to some outlets. Is this just a ”˜in memory of’ type thing or is it a legal name change? It seems like everyone is still calling it the South Mountain Freeway, which is preferable IMO. I don’t care for freeways named after people, it just seems weird.

It's official, and a legal name change.
https://www.azfamily.com/news/ap_cnn/arizona-loop-section-renamed-after-congressman-ed-pastor/article_b4b1bfce-f719-11e9-858a-0ff6d951649e.html

You'd really hate Chicago, with freeways (called expressways there) and tollways named after Dwight Eisenhower, John F. Kennedy, Ronald Reagan, Adlai Stevenson, Jane Addams, William G. Edens, Dan Ryan, Bishop Lewis Henry Ford, Robert Kingery, and Frank Borman (in Indiana).

Quote
Piestewa Freeway gets a pass in my book because it’s technically named after a mountain.

Both the former Squaw Peak Pkwy/Fwy (AZ 51) and Squaw Peak itself were named after PFC Lori Piestewa, a Hopi who was the first Native American woman killed in battle.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on November 29, 2019, 04:32:43 AM
Loop 303 is officially named the Bob Stump Memorial Parkway. However, I have rarely seen or heard the official name referenced by anyone. "Ed Pastor Freeway" may get mentioned to distinguish it from other sections of Loop 202, but I bet most people will still call it the South Mountain Freeway or just Loop 202.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: jakeroot on November 29, 2019, 05:00:10 AM
Loop 303 is officially named the Bob Stump Memorial Parkway. However, I have rarely seen or heard the official name referenced by anyone.

So the 303 went from "Estrella Freeway" to "Bob Stump Memorial Parkway"? I was not aware of "freeway" and "parkway" being interchangeable. At least up here, parkways are never more than a "well-dressed" surface arterial.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on November 29, 2019, 10:56:42 AM
Loop 303 is officially named the Bob Stump Memorial Parkway. However, I have rarely seen or heard the official name referenced by anyone.

So the 303 went from "Estrella Freeway" to "Bob Stump Memorial Parkway"? I was not aware of "freeway" and "parkway" being interchangeable. At least up here, parkways are never more than a "well-dressed" surface arterial.

To be honest, the naming of Bob Stump Memorial Parkway took place in 2004. Back then, Loop 303 wasn't a freeway.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on November 29, 2019, 11:24:16 AM
Loop 303 is officially named the Bob Stump Memorial Parkway. However, I have rarely seen or heard the official name referenced by anyone.

So the 303 went from "Estrella Freeway" to "Bob Stump Memorial Parkway"? I was not aware of "freeway" and "parkway" being interchangeable. At least up here, parkways are never more than a "well-dressed" surface arterial.

To be honest, the naming of Bob Stump Memorial Parkway took place in 2004. Back then, Loop 303 wasn't a freeway.

It wasn’t a parkway then either, just a rural two lane road. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: jakeroot on November 29, 2019, 04:13:14 PM
Loop 303 is officially named the Bob Stump Memorial Parkway. However, I have rarely seen or heard the official name referenced by anyone.

So the 303 went from "Estrella Freeway" to "Bob Stump Memorial Parkway"? I was not aware of "freeway" and "parkway" being interchangeable. At least up here, parkways are never more than a "well-dressed" surface arterial.

To be honest, the naming of Bob Stump Memorial Parkway took place in 2004. Back then, Loop 303 wasn't a freeway.

It wasn’t a parkway then either, just a rural two lane road.

All a bit interesting. I don't mind Estrella vs Bob Stump, I just find it odd that "parkway" was the final term, and not "freeway" given that it would ultimately become a freeway.

We have this issue in Washington State, where freeways are occasionally named "...Memorial Highway", even though (like in most western states) everyone calls the road a "freeway". There can sometimes be a strange disconnect between the state legislature and DOT with accepted idioms used by the public. More people might use "Bob Stump Freeway" if that was what it was called, but the current name is both (A) too long IMO, and (B) not reflective of the actual physical properties of the road, which is more that of a freeway than a parkway. Using terms like "parkway" for a freeway is more confusing than anything.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Concrete Bob on November 29, 2019, 11:11:50 PM
I think the term "parkway" is a lot less evasive sounding than "freeway" to the average non-roadgeek.  As "roadgeeks," we know the difference. As long as Loop 303 gets built, that is all that matters. I still think of Loop 303 as the Estrella freeway.  I sure hope a whole lot more of those "parkways" get built along the peripheries of the cities across North America.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on November 30, 2019, 10:12:18 AM
I think most people in the valley use the numbers rather than the actual freeway names. Names are occasionally used with Loop 101 and Loop 202 for their various segments, mostly by traffic reporters. I have never heard anyone refer to Loop 303 by the Bob Stump Parkway name, ever. Some of the freeway names are signed in the field.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on November 30, 2019, 12:10:16 PM
I think most people in the valley use the numbers rather than the actual freeway names. Names are occasionally used with Loop 101 and Loop 202 for their various segments, mostly by traffic reporters. I have never heard anyone refer to Loop 303 by the Bob Stump Parkway name, ever. Some of the freeway names are signed in the field.

The only one I ever recall being called by the name on the news was AZ 51 when it was known as the Squaw Peak Freeway and then Piestwa Freeway. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Concrete Bob on November 30, 2019, 01:55:21 PM
During the early iterations of the Phoenix Freeway planning in the early 1980s, SR 51 was deemed the "Squaw Peak Parkway," if my memory serves correct. I love how SR 51 goes up into the hills and you think you are going somewhere Arizona-Rural, only to be let into more suburbs at Shea Boulevard. Maricopa County has done such an awesome job on their freeway system. We didn't have internet as we know it now in the 1980s, so I didn't know about the Proposition 300 plans until I bought a Thomas Guide at the Los Angeles County Fair in 1989.  When I saw the "PROP FRWY" lines on the maps, I blew a mental fuse.  I was amazed that a planning bureau was still planning new freeways at that date and age. The beauty was that most of the freeways got built, with the exception of the Paradise Freeway, Sky Harbor and Grand Expressway. Even Grand Avenue will continue to get upgrades into 2026 and beyond.  And, the old Durango Freeways have been dusted back as the Tres Rios Freeway. Go figure.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on November 30, 2019, 02:09:54 PM
During the early iterations of the Phoenix Freeway planning in the early 1980s, SR 51 was deemed the "Squaw Peak Parkway," if my memory serves correct. I love how SR 51 goes up into the hills and you think you are going somewhere Arizona-Rural, only to be let into more suburbs at Shea Boulevard. Maricopa County has done such an awesome job on their freeway system. We didn't have internet as we know it now in the 1980s, so I didn't know about the Proposition 300 plans until I bought a Thomas Guide at the Los Angeles County Fair in 1989.  When I saw the "PROP FRWY" lines on the maps, I blew a mental fuse.  I was amazed that a planning bureau was still planning new freeways at that date and age. The beauty was that most of the freeways got built, with the exception of the Paradise Freeway, Sky Harbor and Grand Expressway. Even Grand Avenue will continue to get upgrades into 2026 and beyond.  And, the old Durango Freeways have been dusted back as the Tres Rios Freeway. Go figure.

Yes, 51 cuts through a pass which used to be inhabited by Northern Avenue in the Phoenix Mountains.  I used to live on 32nd Street and Shea Boulevard and would use the pedestrian over crossing from Northern to the Phoenix Mountains Preserve every morning.  Suffice to say that crossing has a fantastic view of the AZ 51 freeway.  Piestwa Peak has an awesome view of the entirety of AZ 51, I have a crap ton of pictures from up there when I would finish a morning climb. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on November 30, 2019, 10:13:05 PM
I remember way back when I was a kid and the Phoenix highway system was taking shape that the names seemed to be used pretty frequently.

I-17 north of the Stack with I-10 is the Black Canyon Freeway
I-10 west of the Stack is the Papago Freeway
Early versions of the 202 from the mini-stack over to the 143 had Papago for a while, but that kinda went away.
202 from the 143 all the way out to the 60/Superstition interchange is the Red Mountain Freeway
202 from the 60 interchange back around to I-10 in Chandler is the Santan Freeway
101 from the 202 in Chandler up to the 202 in Tempe is the Price Freeway, but I'm not sure how much that is used anymore.
101 north of the 202/Tempe interchange all the way up to I-17 in north Phoenix is the Pima Freeway
101 from 17 back around to I-10 in the west valley is the Agua Fria.
51 is the Piestewa Freeway, used to be Squaw Peak Parkway named controversially as many Native Americans claim "Squaw" is a derogatory term for a woman.
60 from I-10 in Tempe all the way out to Apache Junction is the Superstition Freeway.

By the way, the reason the 51 was originally called "Parkway" was that the first few miles were built by the City of Phoenix, not MAG or ADOT and was 2 lanes each way I believe, more in a "parkway" style even though it was only accessible from ramps. I remember they had some very "bold" signage using non-Federal fonts in the early days. I think the section from the 10/202 up to around Glendale was built by Phoenix, and then ceded to ADOT who continued it further north.

As for the 202 South Mountain/Ed Pastor, I think ultimately it will come down to how much each term is used once it opens. If traffic reporters regularly use "202 Pastor Freeway" in their reports, it will catch on with the public. I think that's why the older terms have "stuck" a bit better than the new ones. People who have been around Phoenix since the early days of the Phoenix freeway system have had those names used regularly in traffic reports for 30 years. Whereas the "Bob Stump" name on the 303 is really new and not really used in the media, instead usually just called "the 303." But names like Black Canyon, Papago, Pima, Agua Fria, Red Mountain, and Santan have been so well established for so long, they've just become "natural" to a lot of the general public.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on December 04, 2019, 12:57:51 PM
Driving video of the newest segment of Loop 202:

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: JoePCool14 on December 04, 2019, 10:38:31 PM
Driving video of the newest segment of Loop 202:


Amazing. Brand new freeway, 4 lanes in each direction, little traffic, and no tolls. Completely unheard of nowadays in Chicagoland.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: jakeroot on December 04, 2019, 11:27:24 PM
Completely unheard of nowadays in Chicagoland.

To be fair, the two cities are distantly related at best.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ztonyg on December 05, 2019, 02:16:59 AM
Driving video of the newest segment of Loop 202:


Wow. I wasn’t aware that the Loop 202 was completed (and open) that far.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: JoePCool14 on December 05, 2019, 09:17:25 AM
Completely unheard of nowadays in Chicagoland.

To be fair, the two cities are distantly related at best.

That's true, but it doesn't mean we couldn't use more expressways.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Mark68 on December 05, 2019, 11:04:14 AM
This whole discussion reminds me of the old Steven Wright joke about driving on a parkway and parking on a driveway...
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: jakeroot on December 06, 2019, 03:47:07 PM
Completely unheard of nowadays in Chicagoland.

To be fair, the two cities are distantly related at best.

That's true, but it doesn't mean we couldn't use more expressways.

Perhaps, yes. Just that the political climate (and geographic climate) makes expressway construction quicker, cheaper, and easier in Phoenix than almost anywhere else in the country.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: SSR_317 on December 09, 2019, 09:37:42 PM
This whole discussion reminds me of the old Steven Wright joke about driving on a parkway and parking on a driveway...
Wasn't that the late, great George Carlin's bit?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: KeithE4Phx on December 09, 2019, 10:33:44 PM
Perhaps, yes. Just that the political climate (and geographic climate) makes expressway construction quicker, cheaper, and easier in Phoenix than almost anywhere else in the country.

Which of course explains why it's taken 35 years for all the freeways proposed in 1985 to be finished, most of the construction being in the last 20.  And why it took close to 15 years (completed in 1990) for I-10 to be completed from Buckeye into Phoenix.

There won't be any new freeways within the city limits of Phoenix, save for part of the Tres Rios Fwy (AZ 30), once the South Mountain Freeway (Loop 202) is completed next year.  AFAIK, all freeway construction within the city will be finished with those.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Plutonic Panda on December 09, 2019, 10:50:26 PM
^^^^ is the possibility of US-60 freeway conversion NW a pipe dream?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: KeithE4Phx on December 09, 2019, 11:44:32 PM
^^^^ is the possibility of US-30 freeway conversion NW a pipe dream?

What?  Did you post this in the wrong forum?  US 30 doesn't exist in Arizona. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Plutonic Panda on December 09, 2019, 11:51:16 PM
^^^^ is the possibility of US-30 freeway conversion NW a pipe dream?

What?  Did you post this in the wrong forum?  US 30 doesn't exist in Arizona.
oops I meant 60 not sure why I typed 30.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: X99 on December 10, 2019, 12:41:39 AM
^^^^ is the possibility of US-30 freeway conversion NW a pipe dream?

What?  Did you post this in the wrong forum?  US 30 doesn't exist in Arizona.
oops I meant 60 not sure why I typed 30.
Can't blame autocorrect on a number.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on December 10, 2019, 01:02:57 AM
^^^^ is the possibility of US-60 freeway conversion NW a pipe dream?

At this point, yes. Nothing inside of Wickenburg. Maybe a limited-access interchange here or there (similar to what's already inside 67th Ave), but other than that, no. I think the only thing on the radar that could be a factor for US 60 is the Northern Parkway extension bringing it inside the 101 loop to meet with Grand Ave/US 60. But that's not an upgrade to 60 itself, just tying it into the Parkway with an interchange of some sort.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Exit58 on December 10, 2019, 01:29:54 AM
At this point, yes. Nothing inside of Wickenburg. Maybe a limited-access interchange here or there (similar to what's already inside 67th Ave), but other than that, no. I think the only thing on the radar that could be a factor for US 60 is the Northern Parkway extension bringing it inside the 101 loop to meet with Grand Ave/US 60. But that's not an upgrade to 60 itself, just tying it into the Parkway with an interchange of some sort.

Speaking of which, what is going on with Northern Parkway? Updates seem sparse to say the least. Thats MCO project right?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: jakeroot on December 10, 2019, 03:56:22 AM
There won't be any new freeways within the city limits of Phoenix, save for part of the Tres Rios Fwy (AZ 30), once the South Mountain Freeway (Loop 202) is completed next year.  AFAIK, all freeway construction within the city will be finished with those.

Well, that's kind of my point. How many cities were able to even "finish" their entire freeway network? Los Angeles (and California) had the political will to complete their freeways through to the 1990s (40+ years after construction started), but freeways eventually became far too expensive to justify. I haven't seen similar issues in Arizona. I'm sure the South Mountain Freeway will be very expensive compared to the original Loop 101 construction, but I'm sure most of the cost increase is related to labour, materials, and inflation.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on December 10, 2019, 09:10:15 PM
At this point, yes. Nothing inside of Wickenburg. Maybe a limited-access interchange here or there (similar to what's already inside 67th Ave), but other than that, no. I think the only thing on the radar that could be a factor for US 60 is the Northern Parkway extension bringing it inside the 101 loop to meet with Grand Ave/US 60. But that's not an upgrade to 60 itself, just tying it into the Parkway with an interchange of some sort.

Speaking of which, what is going on with Northern Parkway? Updates seem sparse to say the least. Thats MCO project right?

It was "paused" for a few years while they tried to round up some more money. Last I heard, they've gotten restarted on it on the segment from Dysart across the Agua Fria River to 111th Ave. The overpasses at Dysart and El Mirage are coming next year.

http://apps.mcdot.maricopa.gov/Projects/northern-parkway.aspx
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Concrete Bob on December 10, 2019, 10:40:05 PM

Expect Maricopa County to upgrade Grand Avenue from 303 to Downtown Phoenix over the next few years.  It won't be a freeway, but it will have a lot more grade separations and limited access:


https://www.azmag.gov/Portals/0/Documents/COMPASS_2015-07-31_Recommendations-Map-Book.pdf?ver=2017-04-06-110942-403

source: https://www.azmag.gov/Programs/Transportation/Freeways-and-Highways/US-60-Grand-Avenue-COMPASS-Study

Looks like there will be a lot more Bell Road-style interchanges along the corridor once all is said and done. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on December 10, 2019, 11:40:36 PM

Expect Maricopa County to upgrade Grand Avenue from 303 to Downtown Phoenix over the next few years.  It won't be a freeway, but it will have a lot more grade separations and limited access:


https://www.azmag.gov/Portals/0/Documents/COMPASS_2015-07-31_Recommendations-Map-Book.pdf?ver=2017-04-06-110942-403

source: https://www.azmag.gov/Programs/Transportation/Freeways-and-Highways/US-60-Grand-Avenue-COMPASS-Study

Looks like there will be a lot more Bell Road-style interchanges along the corridor once all is said and done.

Holy smokes, looking at all those new interchanges and scared of what the final dollar amount will be for the cost (along with just how many of those will ever actually be built).
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: PastTense on December 11, 2019, 03:15:01 AM
Phoenix Freeway (Loop 202) Melds Adroit Design, P3 Contract
https://www.enr.com/articles/47465-phoenix-freeway-melds-adroit-design-p3-contract
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on December 13, 2019, 05:34:06 PM
I don't know if this is the actual freeway opening, or just "celebration" but this event is scheduled for this coming Wednesday.



https://azbigmedia.com/business/transportation-biz/ducey-will-open-loop-202-south-mountain-freeway-on-wednesday/
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on December 14, 2019, 01:55:09 PM
A recent flyover of the new Loop 202 from I-10 south to Estrella Dr.

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: jakeroot on December 14, 2019, 07:23:55 PM
A recent flyover of the new Loop 202 from I-10 south to Estrella Dr.

https://youtu.be/55WYugyb31Y

I find it rather interesting that at least a couple of the off-ramps have dedicated straight-on lanes, even though they aren't part of frontage roads. Seems to me that one of the turn lanes (likely one the left turn lanes) could be a shared left/straight lane.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: AZDude on December 21, 2019, 02:30:10 PM
The South Mountain Freeway is now officially open!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox10phoenix.com/news/adot-south-mountain-freeway-now-open.amp
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Kniwt on December 21, 2019, 11:35:38 PM
The South Mountain Freeway is now officially open!

Any word on what the control cities are on the new signs? Is ADOT going to try sending I-10 thru traffic onto 202 instead? ("202 EAST / Tucson", "10 EAST / Phoenix")
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on December 21, 2019, 11:48:49 PM
No control cities are listed for the 202. Most of the loop freeways in the valley don't have control cities listed.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: AZDude on December 22, 2019, 03:22:19 AM
Here is a video I made of the new freeway.  There are no control cites listed.

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on December 22, 2019, 09:50:55 AM
ADOT has posted supplemental signage that says "Phoenix Bypass Route" on I-10 EB approaching Loop 303 (also I-17 SB approaching Loop 303). I could see them using signage that is similar on I-10 EB in the west valley, and I-10 WB in the east valley approaching the 202.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Concrete Bob on December 22, 2019, 01:56:23 PM
Thanks for the great video, AZ Dude !!  I have been waiting years for this stretch of freeway to open!!
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on December 22, 2019, 02:56:46 PM
Next time I’m out in Phoenix I’ll have to hike South Mountain again, I bet the views of the new part of 202 are pretty nice. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: PastTense on December 23, 2019, 12:20:41 PM
AZDUDE: What is the speed limit there and how fast were you driving? The video gives the impression that a lot of drivers were speeding excessively.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Kniwt on December 23, 2019, 01:07:19 PM
The video gives the impression that a lot of drivers were speeding excessively.

In Phoenix?! Speeding excessively?! Shirley, you can't be serious. :) :) :)
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on December 23, 2019, 01:59:55 PM
The speed limit on most valley freeways is 65. Usually lower in construction zones.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: AZDude on December 23, 2019, 11:18:36 PM
The Speed Limit is 65 MPH.  I was cruising at 60.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: jakeroot on December 24, 2019, 12:03:50 AM
The Speed Limit is 65 MPH.  I was cruising at 60.

 :eyebrow:
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: SSR_317 on December 27, 2019, 01:13:05 PM
The video gives the impression that a lot of drivers were speeding excessively.

In Phoenix?! Speeding excessively?! Shirley, you can't be serious. :) :) :)
LOL. I remember one spring day about 20 years ago heading back from IndyCar Friday practice at PIR (now ISM Raceway) to my Metrocenter-area hotel during the evening rush on the Black Canyon Fwy (I-17 NB) around Camelback and traffic was its usual stop (0 MPH) & go (70-75 MPH when it was moving). Drivers were splitting around and flying by an obvious snowbird in his RV who had gotten stuck in the center lane. As I passed on his left I had time to glance over and see its driver - who had a look of sheer terror on his face. Welcome to the big leagues, my friend! Of course that was back when the Black Canyon Fwy still lived up to its name with the concrete berms on either side, but after The Stack had been built at I-10.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ztonyg on December 27, 2019, 10:44:45 PM
No control cities are listed for the 202. Most of the loop freeways in the valley don't have control cities listed.

Honestly, I think that ADOT should have designated the South Mountain Freeway as I-610 and had a control city for the South / East segment as "Tucson" and the North / West segment as "Los Angeles" to encourage traffic to follow this alignment versus I-10 through downtown Phoenix.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: KeithE4Phx on December 28, 2019, 03:56:22 AM
No control cities are listed for the 202. Most of the loop freeways in the valley don't have control cities listed.

Honestly, I think that ADOT should have designated the South Mountain Freeway as I-610 and had a control city for the South / East segment as "Tucson" and the North / West segment as "Los Angeles" to encourage traffic to follow this alignment versus I-10 through downtown Phoenix.

These Loop freeways were built without Federal money.  I don't believe they are eligible for Interstate designations.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: US 89 on December 28, 2019, 05:52:12 PM
No control cities are listed for the 202. Most of the loop freeways in the valley don't have control cities listed.

Honestly, I think that ADOT should have designated the South Mountain Freeway as I-610 and had a control city for the South / East segment as "Tucson" and the North / West segment as "Los Angeles" to encourage traffic to follow this alignment versus I-10 through downtown Phoenix.

These Loop freeways were built without Federal money.  I don't believe they are eligible for Interstate designations.

I was under the impression any freeway could be added to the system today as a non-chargeable interstate provided it is a logical addition/connection and meets Interstate design standards.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on December 28, 2019, 06:37:25 PM
No control cities are listed for the 202. Most of the loop freeways in the valley don't have control cities listed.

Honestly, I think that ADOT should have designated the South Mountain Freeway as I-610 and had a control city for the South / East segment as "Tucson" and the North / West segment as "Los Angeles" to encourage traffic to follow this alignment versus I-10 through downtown Phoenix.

These Loop freeways were built without Federal money.  I don't believe they are eligible for Interstate designations.

I was under the impression any freeway could be added to the system today as a non-chargeable interstate provided it is a logical addition/connection and meets Interstate design standards.

They can, ADOT has never sought the Loop Freeways for inclusion.  Really the system is fine the way it is and doesn’t need a glob of 3D Interstate Spurs like Los Angeles or the Bay Area. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Bobby5280 on December 28, 2019, 11:04:54 PM
My feeling is if the state pays most or all of the cost of a new freeway they should be able to stick their own state highway marker on it and keep it that way. If anything, perhaps individual states should come up with a couple different options for their state highway signs to separate the freeways (and toll roads) from regular roads with stop signs and traffic signals. Create more elaborate, multi-color options for the super highways and keep it more simple and black & white for the regular roads.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on December 28, 2019, 11:12:12 PM
My feeling is if the state pays most or all of the cost of a new freeway they should be able to stick their own state highway marker on it and keep it that way. If anything, perhaps individual states should come up with a couple different options for their state highway signs to separate the freeways (and toll roads) from regular roads with stop signs and traffic signals. Create more elaborate, multi-color options for the super highways and keep it more simple and black & white for the regular roads.

Which is probably the reasoning behind the numbering of the Loop Freeways.  Lets not forget, Arizona was stiffed decades ago on chargeable three digit Interstate designations.  One of the early concepts for AZ 202 was in fact AZ 217.  AZ 51 has origins as a potential I-510.  Personally I'd like to see ADOT go all out with the X0X concept and have all future new routes adhere to the convention.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on December 29, 2019, 09:45:00 PM
My feeling is if the state pays most or all of the cost of a new freeway they should be able to stick their own state highway marker on it and keep it that way. If anything, perhaps individual states should come up with a couple different options for their state highway signs to separate the freeways (and toll roads) from regular roads with stop signs and traffic signals. Create more elaborate, multi-color options for the super highways and keep it more simple and black & white for the regular roads.

Which is probably the reasoning behind the numbering of the Loop Freeways.  Lets not forget, Arizona was stiffed decades ago on chargeable three digit Interstate designations.  One of the early concepts for AZ 202 was in fact AZ 217.  AZ 51 has origins as a potential I-510.  Personally I'd like to see ADOT go all out with the X0X concept and have all future new routes adhere to the convention.

The "loop" routes seem to stick to the "x0x" numbering, while the "straight" routes seem to have more conventional numbering. Obviously the 51 is basically N/S orientation, and the newer SR 24 and SR 30 are straight E/W routes.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ztonyg on January 02, 2020, 09:09:03 AM
No control cities are listed for the 202. Most of the loop freeways in the valley don't have control cities listed.

Honestly, I think that ADOT should have designated the South Mountain Freeway as I-610 and had a control city for the South / East segment as "Tucson" and the North / West segment as "Los Angeles" to encourage traffic to follow this alignment versus I-10 through downtown Phoenix.

These Loop freeways were built without Federal money.  I don't believe they are eligible for Interstate designations.

I was under the impression any freeway could be added to the system today as a non-chargeable interstate provided it is a logical addition/connection and meets Interstate design standards.

They can, ADOT has never sought the Loop Freeways for inclusion.  Really the system is fine the way it is and doesn’t need a glob of 3D Interstate Spurs like Los Angeles or the Bay Area.

The reason I propose the South Mountain freeway getting an interstate designation is the nature of its traffic flows. Most of the other Loop freeways primarily serve local traffic. The South Mountain Freeway is a useful truck bypass of downtown Phoenix (and based upon the ratio of trucks to cars I saw when I drove it the other day seems to back this up) so therefore I believe it makes sense to receive an interstate designation (as well as control cities) to highlight the fact that it is the best connection between two points of I-10 bypassing downtown Phoenix.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on January 02, 2020, 11:59:18 AM
Many of the current freeways in the Phoenix area had SR x10 or SR x17 numbers in the original 1985 plan. It would have been nice to have more of those numbers (for instance, SR 51 should have been SR 510 if not I-510). But the current numbers are fine, and would just cause more confusion if changed now. I do think it would be helpful to have control cities listed on portions of the regional freeways.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: dfwmapper on January 03, 2020, 05:41:16 PM
I made a couple trips on the South Mountain Freeway while in AZ over the holidays. It's very confusing driving on an 8 lane urban freeway where all you can see is a soundwall on one side and empty desert on the other. Most traffic was well-behaved (by Arizona standards) and kept it to 70-75, probably because DPS was maintaining a very visible presence and pulling over a lot of people who were going faster than that.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Plutonic Panda on January 03, 2020, 06:09:27 PM
Glad DPS was out getting those horrible fiends going 80-90!
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on January 05, 2020, 07:32:58 PM
No control cities are listed for the 202. Most of the loop freeways in the valley don't have control cities listed.

Honestly, I think that ADOT should have designated the South Mountain Freeway as I-610 and had a control city for the South / East segment as "Tucson" and the North / West segment as "Los Angeles" to encourage traffic to follow this alignment versus I-10 through downtown Phoenix.

These Loop freeways were built without Federal money.  I don't believe they are eligible for Interstate designations.

I was under the impression any freeway could be added to the system today as a non-chargeable interstate provided it is a logical addition/connection and meets Interstate design standards.

They can, ADOT has never sought the Loop Freeways for inclusion.  Really the system is fine the way it is and doesn’t need a glob of 3D Interstate Spurs like Los Angeles or the Bay Area.

The reason I propose the South Mountain freeway getting an interstate designation is the nature of its traffic flows. Most of the other Loop freeways primarily serve local traffic. The South Mountain Freeway is a useful truck bypass of downtown Phoenix (and based upon the ratio of trucks to cars I saw when I drove it the other day seems to back this up) so therefore I believe it makes sense to receive an interstate designation (as well as control cities) to highlight the fact that it is the best connection between two points of I-10 bypassing downtown Phoenix.



The South Mountain Freeway wasn't designed to be a truck bypass.  The I-8/SR 85 route is still the route that ADOT prefers long haul truckers to take to bypass Phoenix.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ztonyg on January 07, 2020, 07:47:05 PM
No control cities are listed for the 202. Most of the loop freeways in the valley don't have control cities listed.

Honestly, I think that ADOT should have designated the South Mountain Freeway as I-610 and had a control city for the South / East segment as "Tucson" and the North / West segment as "Los Angeles" to encourage traffic to follow this alignment versus I-10 through downtown Phoenix.

These Loop freeways were built without Federal money.  I don't believe they are eligible for Interstate designations.

I was under the impression any freeway could be added to the system today as a non-chargeable interstate provided it is a logical addition/connection and meets Interstate design standards.

They can, ADOT has never sought the Loop Freeways for inclusion.  Really the system is fine the way it is and doesn’t need a glob of 3D Interstate Spurs like Los Angeles or the Bay Area.

The reason I propose the South Mountain freeway getting an interstate designation is the nature of its traffic flows. Most of the other Loop freeways primarily serve local traffic. The South Mountain Freeway is a useful truck bypass of downtown Phoenix (and based upon the ratio of trucks to cars I saw when I drove it the other day seems to back this up) so therefore I believe it makes sense to receive an interstate designation (as well as control cities) to highlight the fact that it is the best connection between two points of I-10 bypassing downtown Phoenix.



The South Mountain Freeway wasn't designed to be a truck bypass.  The I-8/SR 85 route is still the route that ADOT prefers long haul truckers to take to bypass Phoenix.

I understand that it wasn't designed to be a truck bypass, but trucks make up a major percentage of the traffic on the highway and it is the only all freeway truck bypass of downtown Phoenix.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: dfwmapper on January 08, 2020, 02:22:30 AM
Glad DPS was out getting those horrible fiends going 80-90!
If ADOT set limits based on 85th percentile speeds without any outside influence and wasn't deathly afraid of limits ending in 0, the 202 Red Mountain east of the 101 would be 70, all of the 202 San Tan would be 70, and the 202 South Mountain would be 75. The 101 through Scottsdale might earn its number :-D.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Exit58 on January 28, 2020, 12:05:23 PM
Glad DPS was out getting those horrible fiends going 80-90!
If ADOT set limits based on 85th percentile speeds without any outside influence and wasn't deathly afraid of limits ending in 0, the 202 Red Mountain east of the 101 would be 70, all of the 202 San Tan would be 70, and the 202 South Mountain would be 75. The 101 through Scottsdale might earn its number :-D.

The Price and Pima segments of the 101 are the worst. I was doing 65 in the construction zone and still had people riding my bumper and blowing past me on the left. Between that and the fact that people on the Price frontage road never yield to freeway off ramp traffic, I avoid the 101 whenever possible.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on January 28, 2020, 01:19:28 PM
This weekend I checked out the Northern Parkway/Northern Ave construction. Most of it is from west of Dysart Rd to a little ways east of El Mirage Rd. All traffic is using the future EB frontage road. I don't know if overpasses will be built over Dysart and El Mirage, but I think that will happen much later. Nothing else seems to be happening along Northern Ave.

I also have driven on the new section of Loop 202 a few times. It would be treated like an autobahn if it wasn't for all the cops along the way. The only slowdowns I observed were on the ramps to and from I-10 at both ends.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Zonie on January 28, 2020, 01:31:47 PM
Speaking of Loop 202, they desperately need to repair the Santan stretch between Loop 101 and I-10. 

I've had to replace two windshields in a month due to loose asphalt.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: KeithE4Phx on January 28, 2020, 02:24:24 PM
Speaking of Loop 202, they desperately need to repair the Santan stretch between Loop 101 and I-10. 

I've had to replace two windshields in a month due to loose asphalt.

It's been bad for years.  If somebody started a thread called "What freeways are gravel roads?" that section of the 202 would be #1 on my list.  :)
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on January 28, 2020, 07:52:20 PM
For those of you who drive on the valley freeways, would you rather see ADOT continue with rubberized asphalt or go back to concrete? Maybe it's because of the heavy traffic, or weather, or end of life cycle on some freeway pavement, but I personally wouldn't mind if ADOT rolled back the use of rubberized asphalt.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ztonyg on January 28, 2020, 11:04:02 PM
For those of you who drive on the valley freeways, would you rather see ADOT continue with rubberized asphalt or go back to concrete? Maybe it's because of the heavy traffic, or weather, or end of life cycle on some freeway pavement, but I personally wouldn't mind if ADOT rolled back the use of rubberized asphalt.

The rubberized asphalt seems to go bad within a few years. I wouldn't mind if ADOT rolled back its use but I don't see that happening, especially with all of the urban freeways near residential areas.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on January 30, 2020, 09:42:50 AM
Glad DPS was out getting those horrible fiends going 80-90!
If ADOT set limits based on 85th percentile speeds without any outside influence and wasn't deathly afraid of limits ending in 0, the 202 Red Mountain east of the 101 would be 70, all of the 202 San Tan would be 70, and the 202 South Mountain would be 75. The 101 through Scottsdale might earn its number :-D .


I would probably also raise I-10 east of US 60, I-10 west of 43rd Avenue, I-17 north of Loop 101, and the Loop 101 Agua Fria Freeway.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on January 30, 2020, 09:57:52 AM
For those of you who drive on the valley freeways, would you rather see ADOT continue with rubberized asphalt or go back to concrete? Maybe it's because of the heavy traffic, or weather, or end of life cycle on some freeway pavement, but I personally wouldn't mind if ADOT rolled back the use of rubberized asphalt.

The rubberized asphalt seems to go bad within a few years. I wouldn't mind if ADOT rolled back its use but I don't see that happening, especially with all of the urban freeways near residential areas.

I’m not a fan of its poor quality regarding maintenance but as someone who owned a house a couple hundred feet from AZ 101 it made a huge difference with the noise.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kdk on February 05, 2020, 07:17:50 PM
Now that the SMF is open, I saw some recent news about the massive "Broadway Curve" project along I-10 getting started later this year.  The news reports were vague and the ADOT site seems about 6 months behind, still talking about hearings.  https://azdot.gov/planning/transportation-studies/interstate-10-broadway-curve-interstate-17-split-loop-202-santan
I'm glad they'll finally clean up the mess of the AZ 143/1-10/US 60 interchanges that back up now already at 2pm for evening rush hour.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on February 06, 2020, 12:59:09 AM
Now that the SMF is open, I saw some recent news about the massive "Broadway Curve" project along I-10 getting started later this year.  The news reports were vague and the ADOT site seems about 6 months behind, still talking about hearings.  https://azdot.gov/planning/transportation-studies/interstate-10-broadway-curve-interstate-17-split-loop-202-santan
I'm glad they'll finally clean up the mess of the AZ 143/1-10/US 60 interchanges that back up now already at 2pm for evening rush hour.

The widening they're proposing would mean rebuilding pretty much every interchange, along with a significant overhaul of the Superstition interchange, right? I don't think many, if any, of the current overpasses/underpasses have the space to accommodate that many new lanes. And during construction this is going to be a complete clusterfuck the likes of which the Valley hasn't seen in a long time. Really the biggest "rebuild" of any of the Valley freeways I can ever remember. Everything else has been adding a lane here and a lane their, outside of the "new construction" obviously.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Zonie on February 06, 2020, 06:33:20 PM
At least from this planning doc a few years ago, there weren't major changes to the Superstition interchange itself (page 7).  However, the exits south of US 60 could use a rebuild, particularly Warner.

http://azmag.gov/Portals/0/Documents/I-10%20I-17%20Spine%20Study/2017-09_MAG_Spine_ASTR_Chap_06_Recommendation.pdf
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on February 07, 2020, 08:16:53 PM
It appears that Queen Creek is going back to Clearview, although new signage has been inconsistent. Mesa and Gilbert on the other hand are sticking with FHWA.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Exit58 on February 10, 2020, 01:01:12 PM
Ok what's up with ADOT's new optional exit signs? I've been noticing a lot of new signs are erroneously using 'EXIT ONLY' signage at the gore points for lanes that continue straight and are optional exits. These signs are so new that Google Maps doesn't yet have them on Street View but I noticed them at the 202-10 interchange in Chandler and where I-8 ends at I-10 in Casa Grande.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49517222462_b60ae8ded5.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2irEH5S)

The two right lanes are exit only but the left lane should be a white arrow, correct? The advance signage correctly reflects this.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49517222642_94dfceeffa_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2irEH8Y)

Here's I-8's terminus as I-10 in Casa Grande. All the advance signage is fine but it's the gore point signage that's bothering me. It shouldn't be 'EXIT ONLY'. Compare it to the older signage, which is viewable on Google Street View (https://www.google.com/maps/@32.8205542,-111.6897115,3a,75y,107.08h,88.49t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCQ9BHkN2I5pbN6acj75_nQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).

Compare both of those to the Superstition Freeway's western terminus (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.3871147,-111.9592955,3a,75y,288.87h,96.54t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s3PL4cx1zM40S-wgXkMQZXA!2e0!5s20190401T000000!7i16384!8i8192), who's signage was replaced in late 18-early 19 as well when ADOT changed the lane configuration to allow for optional exit from lane #2 onto I-10 East. This one correctly reflects the fact that the number 2 lane is an optional exit lane.


I can see this being quite confusing to some, at least the ones in the Metro Area. The one on I-8 doesn't matter as much since there's no decel lane.

For those of you who drive on the valley freeways, would you rather see ADOT continue with rubberized asphalt or go back to concrete? Maybe it's because of the heavy traffic, or weather, or end of life cycle on some freeway pavement, but I personally wouldn't mind if ADOT rolled back the use of rubberized asphalt.

I saw on the Loop 202/Santan EB that there is a test section of 'Quiet Concrete'. It's on the EB side prior to Dobson. I haven't been able to drive it myself, all I saw was a sign from the EB Dobson Onramp saying 'END QUIET CONCRETE TEST SECTION' or something to that effect.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Rothman on February 10, 2020, 01:20:05 PM
NYSDOT has done this as well at Exit 17 (Bridge St) on I-690 EB.

Wonder if it's a trend.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Bobby5280 on February 10, 2020, 03:55:35 PM
On I-20 multiple overhead advance signs for I-30 have a big yellow "Exit Only" bar along the bottom. The left 3 lanes are "exiting" while 2 lanes of I-20 veer off to the right.
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7258938,-97.5846435,3a,75y,112.19h,92.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sx1Byql2lTMlaAgt6JagJ0g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Maybe this is indeed a new trend or regulation. The EB I-20 signs leading to the I-30 split were installed sometime between mid 2015-16.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: roadfro on February 11, 2020, 10:58:04 AM
Ok what's up with ADOT's new optional exit signs? I've been noticing a lot of new signs are erroneously using 'EXIT ONLY' signage at the gore points for lanes that continue straight and are optional exits. These signs are so new that Google Maps doesn't yet have them on Street View but I noticed them at the 202-10 interchange in Chandler and where I-8 ends at I-10 in Casa Grande.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49517222462_b60ae8ded5.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2irEH5S)

The two right lanes are exit only but the left lane should be a white arrow, correct? The advance signage correctly reflects this.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49517222642_94dfceeffa_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2irEH8Y)

Here's I-8's terminus as I-10 in Casa Grande. All the advance signage is fine but it's the gore point signage that's bothering me. It shouldn't be 'EXIT ONLY'. Compare it to the older signage, which is viewable on Google Street View (https://www.google.com/maps/@32.8205542,-111.6897115,3a,75y,107.08h,88.49t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCQ9BHkN2I5pbN6acj75_nQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).

Compare both of those to the Superstition Freeway's western terminus (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.3871147,-111.9592955,3a,75y,288.87h,96.54t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s3PL4cx1zM40S-wgXkMQZXA!2e0!5s20190401T000000!7i16384!8i8192), who's signage was replaced in late 18-early 19 as well when ADOT changed the lane configuration to allow for optional exit from lane #2 onto I-10 East. This one correctly reflects the fact that the number 2 lane is an optional exit lane.


I can see this being quite confusing to some, at least the ones in the Metro Area. The one on I-8 doesn't matter as much since there's no decel lane.

For the first: This might depend on where the sign is located. If the above sign is replacing the one in this Street View (https://goo.gl/maps/VUUzfvQSE9jQMwVB9), then the depiction is accurate based on the 2009 MUTCD. The sign structure is located at or just downstream of the theoretical/painted gore point, so 2009 MUTCD indicates it should be marked as exit only. (Not a change I agreed with...I think this a bit confusing.)

I also think it is not necessary to sign this as "Exit 161 A-B", as there's only a single exit from the mainline. In the street view, Exit 161A and 161B are not distinguished downstream.


For the second: The ramp to I-10 west definitely shouldn't be signed as exit only, since there's not a separate dedicated lane to that ramp. Also, the all-yellow left exit tab is not MUTCD spec. I wouldn't mark the through lanes to I-10 east with an exit tab, and wouldn't show them as exit only either.


On I-20 multiple overhead advance signs for I-30 have a big yellow "Exit Only" bar along the bottom. The left 3 lanes are "exiting" while 2 lanes of I-20 veer off to the right.
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7258938,-97.5846435,3a,75y,112.19h,92.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sx1Byql2lTMlaAgt6JagJ0g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Maybe this is indeed a new trend or regulation. The EB I-20 signs leading to the I-30 split were installed sometime between mid 2015-16.

I-30 is technically the exit from the "through" route I-20, and is signed as a left exit. So even though I-20 appears to be exiting itself and has fewer lanes, this one is signed correctly.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: jakeroot on February 12, 2020, 03:03:01 AM
For the second: The ramp to I-10 west definitely shouldn't be signed as exit only, since there's not a separate dedicated lane to that ramp. Also, the all-yellow left exit tab is not MUTCD spec. I wouldn't mark the through lanes to I-10 east with an exit tab, and wouldn't show them as exit only either.

(only quoting the relevant paragraph)

I would obviously agree with you, but the the far left lane of the Exit 161 sign (first image) also does not have a dedicated exit-only lane, but is still required to be signed with an exit-only label as the sign is beyond the point of divergence. Is the Exit 178B sign not following the same standards of marking exits beyond the point of divergence with exit-only signage (irrespective of the number of exiting lanes)?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: roadfro on February 14, 2020, 10:00:25 AM
For the second: The ramp to I-10 west definitely shouldn't be signed as exit only, since there's not a separate dedicated lane to that ramp. Also, the all-yellow left exit tab is not MUTCD spec. I wouldn't mark the through lanes to I-10 east with an exit tab, and wouldn't show them as exit only either.

(only quoting the relevant paragraph)

I would obviously agree with you, but the the far left lane of the Exit 161 sign (first image) also does not have a dedicated exit-only lane, but is still required to be signed with an exit-only label as the sign is beyond the point of divergence. Is the Exit 178B sign not following the same standards of marking exits beyond the point of divergence with exit-only signage (irrespective of the number of exiting lanes)?

The Exit 161 signage is a situation that follows 2009 MUTCD spec for signing exits with option lanes. With that spec, by definition you would have at least one lane dropping to exit and another lane that carries the option. The Exit 178B situation doesn't have an option lane in this same sense.

I would say to sign it as a split, which typically has one side using exit only banners *if* there is a dedicated lane–again, 178B doesn't have a dedicated lane.

So this situation doesn't really match any of the MUTCD examples. I personally wouldn't sign exit only for this situation at all–I believe the original signage was superior. (I also wouldn't have given this split exit numbers either.)
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: jakeroot on February 14, 2020, 03:24:45 PM
The Exit 161 signage is a situation that follows 2009 MUTCD spec for signing exits with option lanes. With that spec, by definition you would have at least one lane dropping to exit and another lane that carries the option. The Exit 178B situation doesn't have an option lane in this same sense.

I would say to sign it as a split, which typically has one side using exit only banners *if* there is a dedicated lane–again, 178B doesn't have a dedicated lane.

So this situation doesn't really match any of the MUTCD examples. I personally wouldn't sign exit only for this situation at all–I believe the original signage was superior. (I also wouldn't have given this split exit numbers either.)

I understand your point, especially that this is an unusual circumstance, but I need you to think about this pragmatically:

Exit-only lanes with an option lane require signing both the mandatory and option lanes as exit-only lanes beyond the point of divergence. Yes, this means that the non-dedicated exit lane is still signed as an exit-only lane, because the exit sign is positioned over the option lane at a point beyond the point of divergence, where that option lane has formed its own lane.

The Exit 178B sign is identical to situations like this, minus an accompanying exit-only lane: the sign is positioned over the "option lane" at a point beyond the point of divergence, where the option lane has formed its own lane. Yet here, these situations are generally not supposed to be signed with exit-only signage.

Why is it that an accompanying exit-only lane changes how an option-lane exit is signed? It is inconsistent, plain and simple. I cannot blame an engineer for how the Exit 178B sign was designed, because it matches the standards for exit-only option lanes.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: roadfro on February 15, 2020, 04:54:54 PM
The Exit 161 signage is a situation that follows 2009 MUTCD spec for signing exits with option lanes. With that spec, by definition you would have at least one lane dropping to exit and another lane that carries the option. The Exit 178B situation doesn't have an option lane in this same sense.

I would say to sign it as a split, which typically has one side using exit only banners *if* there is a dedicated lane–again, 178B doesn't have a dedicated lane.

So this situation doesn't really match any of the MUTCD examples. I personally wouldn't sign exit only for this situation at all–I believe the original signage was superior. (I also wouldn't have given this split exit numbers either.)

I understand your point, especially that this is an unusual circumstance, but I need you to think about this pragmatically:

Exit-only lanes with an option lane require signing both the mandatory and option lanes as exit-only lanes beyond the point of divergence. Yes, this means that the non-dedicated exit lane is still signed as an exit-only lane, because the exit sign is positioned over the option lane at a point beyond the point of divergence, where that option lane has formed its own lane.

The Exit 178B sign is identical to situations like this, minus an accompanying exit-only lane: the sign is positioned over the "option lane" at a point beyond the point of divergence, where the option lane has formed its own lane. Yet here, these situations are generally not supposed to be signed with exit-only signage.

Why is it that an accompanying exit-only lane changes how an option-lane exit is signed? It is inconsistent, plain and simple. I cannot blame an engineer for how the Exit 178B sign was designed, because it matches the standards for exit-only option lanes.

If we're talking pragmatically, we should keep in mind that an option lane refers to an interior travel lane that has the option to exit or stay on–a travel lane on the extreme left or right side of the road is not an option lane.

An "exit only" panel has historically meant to be an indication that a particular lane drops off from the through route and is forced to exit. The MUTCD indicates exit only panels are to be used in cases where a lane is dropped–the signage standards are (unfortunately) different if it's a conventional lane drop versus a lane drop with option lane.

No lane is dropped on the Exit 178B example.


All this would have been much more clear prior to the 2009 MUTCD, as the exit direction signs were forward of the gore point. The adopted strictness of "one arrow per lane" in the manual overall necessitated the new placement of exit direction signs and standards with option lanes, thus muddying the traditional definition of "exit only" considerably...this is the one item in the 2009 MUTCD that I greatly disagreed with and hope is changed in the next manual.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: jakeroot on February 15, 2020, 06:48:26 PM
I understand your point, especially that this is an unusual circumstance, but I need you to think about this pragmatically:

Exit-only lanes with an option lane require signing both the mandatory and option lanes as exit-only lanes beyond the point of divergence. Yes, this means that the non-dedicated exit lane is still signed as an exit-only lane, because the exit sign is positioned over the option lane at a point beyond the point of divergence, where that option lane has formed its own lane.

The Exit 178B sign is identical to situations like this, minus an accompanying exit-only lane: the sign is positioned over the "option lane" at a point beyond the point of divergence, where the option lane has formed its own lane. Yet here, these situations are generally not supposed to be signed with exit-only signage.

Why is it that an accompanying exit-only lane changes how an option-lane exit is signed? It is inconsistent, plain and simple. I cannot blame an engineer for how the Exit 178B sign was designed, because it matches the standards for exit-only option lanes.

If we're talking pragmatically, we should keep in mind that an option lane refers to an interior travel lane that has the option to exit or stay on–a travel lane on the extreme left or right side of the road is not an option lane.

An "exit only" panel has historically meant to be an indication that a particular lane drops off from the through route and is forced to exit. The MUTCD indicates exit only panels are to be used in cases where a lane is dropped–the signage standards are (unfortunately) different if it's a conventional lane drop versus a lane drop with option lane.

No lane is dropped on the Exit 178B example.

All this would have been much more clear prior to the 2009 MUTCD, as the exit direction signs were forward of the gore point. The adopted strictness of "one arrow per lane" in the manual overall necessitated the new placement of exit direction signs and standards with option lanes, thus muddying the traditional definition of "exit only" considerably...this is the one item in the 2009 MUTCD that I greatly disagreed with and hope is changed in the next manual.

Well, if we were talking pragmatically (how many times can we use this word?), our conclusion would be that any lane that can either continues on, or exits off, would be an "option lane". Option lane = right-most or left-most travel lane (assuming an approaching right or left exit, respectively).

The MUTCD may disagree on what constitutes an option lane (I assume their definition involves there being an accompanying exit-only lane), but from the perspective of a regular driver, option lanes and travel lanes that have exits are one-in-the-same: they both allow the driver to exit or continue on.

No lane is dropped at Exit 178B, but the left-most lane of Exit 161 also does not drop. Despite this, the lanes are signed differently beyond the point of divergence.

Nevertheless, I agree with your assessment on the 2009 MUTCD. I am totally a proponent of arrow-per-lane signs, but I don't feel the FHWA did themselves any favors by muddying the differences that I'm bringing up here, which, from a driver's perspective (mine, you could say, as I'm far less familiar with the MUTCD than you), are basically the same situation (ramp diverges that don't require you to exit should be signed the same, regardless of how many lanes exit).
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on April 07, 2020, 10:23:12 AM
Looks like the Loop 101 Price Freeway will have a first for the Phoenix area, roadside DMS on "T" posts. These have been installed the past three years in rural Arizona, but now these will be installed for the first time in the Phoenix area.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Zonie on April 07, 2020, 02:22:03 PM
I recall seeing these roadside Ts on the 303 NB this past weekend. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: codeGR on April 07, 2020, 02:28:34 PM
Are these installed along the median barrier?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Zonie on April 07, 2020, 04:12:56 PM
Are these installed along the median barrier?

Yes, in the rock/landscape portion between the retaining wall and shoulder.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on April 07, 2020, 07:50:07 PM
It appears one of them will replace the Sylvia/SES DMS gantry in the southbound direction, although I am not sure if the existing Sylvia/SES DMS will be retained (it was refurbished not too long ago). Another one is also being installed in the SB direction on the opposite side of the Daktronics character matrix LED DMS in the NB direction.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: jakeroot on April 07, 2020, 10:27:05 PM
I'm only familiar with one (or at least what I think you're talking about). Westbound WA-512 near WA-7 has a roadside matrix display (https://goo.gl/maps/d24LJ7LXqmW17ThU9). The T is shorter on the shoulder side (https://goo.gl/maps/hR6RpbXqWYrEqgpB7). This stretch of freeway has no overhead gantry signs, so the placement here seems fairly logical.

These seem to be relatively rare? Not sure if that aligns with your experience, Pink Jazz.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on April 08, 2020, 12:56:56 AM
I'm only familiar with one (or at least what I think you're talking about). Westbound WA-512 near WA-7 has a roadside matrix display (https://goo.gl/maps/d24LJ7LXqmW17ThU9). The T is shorter on the shoulder side (https://goo.gl/maps/hR6RpbXqWYrEqgpB7). This stretch of freeway has no overhead gantry signs, so the placement here seems fairly logical.

These seem to be relatively rare? Not sure if that aligns with your experience, Pink Jazz.


Nope, the T is symmetrical, but are mounted roadside.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on April 16, 2020, 09:32:41 PM
BTW, I think the reason due to the delay in adding travel times to Loop 202 DMS is due to a bug with the Skyline DMS control boards dropping connectivity with the Cameleon ITS software (possibly due to some incompatibility), requiring reboots to reconnect.  ADOT will be retrofitting the Skyline DMS with new SES America control boards and color LED displays.  Several in rural Arizona have already been retrofitted.  My guess once this is complete we might see travel times on Loop 202.

Oddly, NMDOT uses Skyline control software, but has specified Adaptive DMS exclusively since the early 2010s (NMDOT recently chose not to competitively bid their most recent DMS purchase for the sake of commonality).
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: jakeroot on April 16, 2020, 11:54:39 PM
Damn you know a lot about this stuff.

How do you find out about all the software and stuff? Manufacturers are easy enough to spot from the road, I suppose.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on April 17, 2020, 12:31:21 AM
Damn you know a lot about this stuff.

How do you find out about all the software and stuff? Manufacturers are easy enough to spot from the road, I suppose.

Depends on the manufacturer.  I don't think Adaptive puts visible branding on the front of its DMS like Daktronics and Skyline do.

BTW, one of the new full color high resolution Daktronics DMS have been installed on the "T" posts in the southbound direction on the Loop 101 Price Freeway.  This will be the fifth freeway in the Phoenix area to use these new DMS - the others being Loop 303, the Loop 202 SMF, the eastern portion of the Loop 202 SanTan, and I-10 in Goodyear. Also another "T" post for a DMS has been installed in the northbound direction.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Zonie on April 17, 2020, 11:24:18 AM
BTW, I think the reason due to the delay in adding travel times to Loop 202 DMS is due to a bug with the Skyline DMS control boards dropping connectivity with the Cameleon ITS software (possibly due to some incompatibility), requiring reboots to reconnect.  ADOT will be retrofitting the Skyline DMS with new SES America control boards and color LED displays.  Several in rural Arizona have already been retrofitted.  My guess once this is complete we might see travel times on Loop 202.

Oddly, NMDOT uses Skyline control software, but has specified Adaptive DMS exclusively since the early 2010s (NMDOT recently chose not to competitively bid their most recent DMS purchase for the sake of commonality).

I noticed they were cutting in grooves for the sensors this past weekend as well.  I thought that was a bit odd, considering that might have been installed concurrently with road construction.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: roadfro on April 18, 2020, 11:43:11 AM
I noticed they were cutting in grooves for the sensors this past weekend as well.  I thought that was a bit odd, considering that might have been installed concurrently with road construction.

I think detection loops are usually cut in after paving takes place. It seems like it would be more complex to lay out inductive loops and pave around them–cement can shift as it settles, and asphalt is typically compacted.

Or it could be that the loops are being installed under a separate ITS construction package from the main paving work contract.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: roadwaywiz95 on May 06, 2020, 07:59:58 AM
For this upcoming weekend's Webinar presentation, we'll be taking a look at the freeway system in and around Phoenix, AZ, one of America's largest cities and a cultural crossroads of the nation. Coverage will begin on Saturday (5/9) at 6 PM ET and will feature live contributions from members of this forum; we hope to see you there!

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on May 06, 2020, 10:01:34 AM
I noticed today on the Loop 101 Price Freeway they replaced the Daktronics character matrix LED DMS with the new full matrix color Daktronics DMS, and they are already operational.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on May 07, 2020, 09:51:08 PM
Looks like on the newly widened Loop 101 Price Freeway ADOT has decided to go with diamond grind concrete pavement instead of putting a rubberized asphalt overlay.  ADOT has tested portions of diamond grind concrete on portions of the Loop 202 SanTan (initially a small strip east of the Loop 101 Price Freeway, and more recently on all lanes west of the Loop 101 Price Freeway).  Looks like ADOT wants to go with a longer-lasting pavement while still trying to reduce noise to lower lifecycle costs.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Plutonic Panda on May 07, 2020, 10:00:47 PM
That is great! I wish Los Angeles would go with concrete on main arterials. I’m fine with asphalt in neighborhoods but concrete is longer lasting and I prefer it aesthetically.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on May 10, 2020, 09:36:47 PM
Looks like on the newly widened Loop 101 Price Freeway ADOT has decided to go with diamond grind concrete pavement instead of putting a rubberized asphalt overlay.  ADOT has tested portions of diamond grind concrete on portions of the Loop 202 SanTan (initially a small strip east of the Loop 101 Price Freeway, and more recently on all lanes west of the Loop 101 Price Freeway).  Looks like ADOT wants to go with a longer-lasting pavement while still trying to reduce noise to lower lifecycle costs.

I have seen comments on ADOT posts about that and ADOT has acknowledged that the rubberized asphalt isn't living up to their standards and they are looking at phasing it out. Curious how the diamond grind will go. I remember as a kid, the "whistle" that the concrete lanes would make. It would put my sister to sleep within just a couple miles.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: dfwmapper on May 12, 2020, 12:10:11 AM
From an ADOT email last week:
Quote
A stretch of the Loop 101 Price Freeway in the southeast Valley will undergo a specialized concrete smoothing process in the coming months as part of a regional analysis of Phoenix-area freeway pavements.

The Arizona Department of Transportation is widening Loop 101 in this area as part of a $60 million improvement project that started in May 2019 and is scheduled for completion this fall.

The Maricopa Association of Governments (MAG), the Phoenix region’s freeway planning agency, supports ADOT’s upcoming work to diamond grind the concrete surface along the Price Freeway between Baseline Road and Loop 202 (Santan Freeway).

The diamond grinding, which is expected to start Friday, May 8, involves the use of machines with diamond-tipped blades on rotating drums to smooth a freeway’s existing concrete pavement while also creating grooves designed to limit vehicle tire noise.

MAG and ADOT have partnered on an analysis of pavement treatments used to limit noise generated by tires as vehicles travel on Valley freeways. Many of the region’s urban freeways were resurfaced more than 10 years ago with a 1-inch top layer of noise-reducing rubberized asphalt.

At a time when the service life of numerous rubberized asphalt overlays has been extended beyond an anticipated 10 years, ADOT and MAG have faced decisions about long-term costs associated with pavement wear over time. That includes whether to resurface a freeway with rubberized asphalt or use an alternative surface treatment such as diamond grinding a freeway’s concrete pavement.

ADOT recently gained experience with replacing older rubberized asphalt overlays by diamond grinding three areas along Loop 202 (Santan Freeway) in Chandler. Those locations are examples where the worn asphalt pavement was in place well beyond its planned service life, resulting in rough surface conditions. Diamond grinding provided a much improved, smooth concrete driving surface.

Older rubberized asphalt was removed from the Price Freeway south of US 60 last year as part of ADOT’s widening project. MAG supports the expanded use of diamond grinding within the project’s boundaries as consideration is given to additional research about different pavement surfaces, long-term costs and efforts to limit noise along regional freeways.
So it's not so much that rubberized asphalt doesn't work, it just has a specific design life and needs regular resurfacing, which costs money. Not to get too far into politics, but Arizona is still a red state (for now, anyway) and their budget is as fucked up as you would expect from that. MAG's priority is on highly visible improvements like upgrading stop signs to stoplights, adding turn lanes, and adding new freeway miles, so maintenance gets left behind. And Maricopa County has a high freeway lane mile count for the population compared to other major metro areas, so that doesn't help either.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: aboges26 on May 13, 2020, 09:14:48 PM
From an ADOT email last week:
Quote
A stretch of the Loop 101 Price Freeway in the southeast Valley will undergo a specialized concrete smoothing process in the coming months as part of a regional analysis of Phoenix-area freeway pavements.

The Arizona Department of Transportation is widening Loop 101 in this area as part of a $60 million improvement project that started in May 2019 and is scheduled for completion this fall.

The Maricopa Association of Governments (MAG), the Phoenix region’s freeway planning agency, supports ADOT’s upcoming work to diamond grind the concrete surface along the Price Freeway between Baseline Road and Loop 202 (Santan Freeway).

The diamond grinding, which is expected to start Friday, May 8, involves the use of machines with diamond-tipped blades on rotating drums to smooth a freeway’s existing concrete pavement while also creating grooves designed to limit vehicle tire noise.

MAG and ADOT have partnered on an analysis of pavement treatments used to limit noise generated by tires as vehicles travel on Valley freeways. Many of the region’s urban freeways were resurfaced more than 10 years ago with a 1-inch top layer of noise-reducing rubberized asphalt.

At a time when the service life of numerous rubberized asphalt overlays has been extended beyond an anticipated 10 years, ADOT and MAG have faced decisions about long-term costs associated with pavement wear over time. That includes whether to resurface a freeway with rubberized asphalt or use an alternative surface treatment such as diamond grinding a freeway’s concrete pavement.

ADOT recently gained experience with replacing older rubberized asphalt overlays by diamond grinding three areas along Loop 202 (Santan Freeway) in Chandler. Those locations are examples where the worn asphalt pavement was in place well beyond its planned service life, resulting in rough surface conditions. Diamond grinding provided a much improved, smooth concrete driving surface.

Older rubberized asphalt was removed from the Price Freeway south of US 60 last year as part of ADOT’s widening project. MAG supports the expanded use of diamond grinding within the project’s boundaries as consideration is given to additional research about different pavement surfaces, long-term costs and efforts to limit noise along regional freeways.
So it's not so much that rubberized asphalt doesn't work, it just has a specific design life and needs regular resurfacing, which costs money. Not to get too far into politics, but Arizona is still a red state (for now, anyway) and their budget is as fucked up as you would expect from that. MAG's priority is on highly visible improvements like upgrading stop signs to stoplights, adding turn lanes, and adding new freeway miles, so maintenance gets left behind. And Maricopa County has a high freeway lane mile count for the population compared to other major metro areas, so that doesn't help either.

Is rubberized asphalt not living up to ADOT standards due to the extreme heat it endures in the Arizona summer or is it something to do with the product itself?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: roadwaywiz95 on May 13, 2020, 09:15:44 PM
Our next installment in the *weekly* live broadcast over on 'roadwaywiz' will be this double-header Virtual Tour presentation, where we dissect and enjoy a full-length trip along the belt highway encircling Phoenix, AZ and the infamous 405 Freeway around Los Angeles in real time, complete with commentary and contributions from admins/moderators/members of this forum.

The event will kick off on Saturday (5/16) at 6 PM ET and we look forward to seeing you there!

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on May 14, 2020, 07:34:30 PM

Is rubberized asphalt not living up to ADOT standards due to the extreme heat it endures in the Arizona summer or is it something to do with the product itself?


In fact, rubberized asphalt is supposed to perform better in warm climates than in cold climates, since it is generally less resistant to freeze-thaw cycles than conventional asphalt.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: JKRhodes on May 15, 2020, 03:05:11 AM
It holds up well until dirt gets in it. ADOT redid the Safford-Thatcher stretch in 2004 with a one inch rubberized asphalt friction course. The top layer fell apart rather quickly after the local farms started plowing and the tractors tracked mud clods onto the highway.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: dfwmapper on May 23, 2020, 09:14:13 PM
Is rubberized asphalt not living up to ADOT standards due to the extreme heat it endures in the Arizona summer or is it something to do with the product itself?
Your question is incorrect. Rubberized asphalt (at least in urban areas) lives up to ADOT's standard, which is a 10 year lifetime. The problem is political. I know politics are frowned upon on this forum, but it's directly relevant here, and therefore allowed. Arizona passed SB 1070 in 2010, and that resulted in a massive exodus of undocumented immigrants from the state. Those people were paying taxes, and the loss of that tax base combined with the recession beforehand fucked up the state's budget situation, and it still hasn't recovered. ADOT barely has enough money for basic upkeep in most of the state, and the only reason the Phoenix freeway system has been built out at all is because of the additional sales tax in Maricopa County. Even then, it's not enough to fund all the new construction plus maintenance, and that leads to decisions about where to spend the money. MAG has decided that rebuilding the Broadway Curve is more important than keeping the freeways paved with rubberized asphalt, so I-10 is going to be 24 lanes or whatever between the 60 and 143, and all the old rubberized asphalt elsewhere is getting stripped off and the concrete ground down to try to limit the tire whine.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: jakeroot on May 23, 2020, 11:22:10 PM
^^^^
That's a metric fuck-tonne of assumptions, mate. Not to mention, incredibly political.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 24, 2020, 12:03:23 AM
^^^^
That's a metric fuck-tonne of assumptions, mate. Not to mention, incredibly political.

Keep in mind it’s from a guy from Dallas Fort Worth and not someone from Arizona.  SB1070 was pretty much down hard by the Federal Government before it even took effect..if I recall only one provision was actually deemed constitutional..  How the hell anyone would think that garbage law has any ramifications on ADOT projects a decade later eludes my understanding. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: dfwmapper on May 24, 2020, 09:13:14 PM
I'm not making any comments on whether the law was right or wrong, I'm just saying that it passed and had a significant effect on the population of the state. Arizona lost about 100,000 Hispanic residents in the 6 months after it passed and who knows how many more after that. Yes, large portions of the law were eventually shot down by SCOTUS because immigration is a federal thing, but it took over 2 years from the time it was signed in to law until that decision came down, and the damage was done by that point. The part allowing cops to ask for documentation when stopping someone for unrelated reasons also remained in effect, and that has to have a significant impact on immigrants, documented or otherwise, deciding whether to live in Arizona or some other state that isn't as hostile to them. Again, not making a comment on whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, just that it is a thing. Arizona does have plenty of other problems with funding (chief among them, a low gas tax and a population that wants to have their cake and eat it too), but most of those date back to the 90s and 80s, while ADOT's situation has seen a much steeper decline in the last decade.

And FWIW, I've spent more of my life in Phoenix than I have in DFW. Just because I don't live there now doesn't mean I don't keep up with what's happening.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 24, 2020, 09:49:22 PM
I'm not making any comments on whether the law was right or wrong, I'm just saying that it passed and had a significant effect on the population of the state. Arizona lost about 100,000 Hispanic residents in the 6 months after it passed and who knows how many more after that. Yes, large portions of the law were eventually shot down by SCOTUS because immigration is a federal thing, but it took over 2 years from the time it was signed in to law until that decision came down, and the damage was done by that point. The part allowing cops to ask for documentation when stopping someone for unrelated reasons also remained in effect, and that has to have a significant impact on immigrants, documented or otherwise, deciding whether to live in Arizona or some other state that isn't as hostile to them. Again, not making a comment on whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, just that it is a thing. Arizona does have plenty of other problems with funding (chief among them, a low gas tax and a population that wants to have their cake and eat it too), but most of those date back to the 90s and 80s, while ADOT's situation has seen a much steeper decline in the last decade.

And FWIW, I've spent more of my life in Phoenix than I have in DFW. Just because I don't live there now doesn't mean I don't keep up with what's happening.

Okay, that is a more rational way of presenting what you were getting at.  Nonetheless I think there would need to be a fairly strong paper trail to show causation (which may or may not exist?) with general funding in Arizona.  Around the same time SB1070 was going through the motion the entire housing market in Arizona essentially collapsed along with much of the state economy.  That wasn't an instant recovery and was one of the largest contributing factors as to why I ultimately left the state, I couldn't find a viable job that didn't have me on the road half the year.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on June 20, 2020, 02:50:25 PM
A few of the valley cities are installing newer, thinner LED street name signs to use at signalized intersections. Most don't seem to use Clearview, except in Phoenix and Peoria. I actually saw a few NON Clearview signs in Phoenix recently. They were along 59th Ave where the new section of Loop 202 is.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: jakeroot on June 21, 2020, 04:55:56 PM
A few of the valley cities are installing newer, thinner LED street name signs to use at signalized intersections. Most don't seem to use Clearview, except in Phoenix and Peoria. I actually saw a few NON Clearview signs in Phoenix recently. They were along 59th Ave where the new section of Loop 202 is.

I would have thought the novelty of non-Clearview signs would have worn away by now. Is Clearview still that common parts of Arizona?

It's one of the few places where I've seen multiple Clearview speed limit signs, although I figured the "Clearview no matter what" era would have passed by now, and perhaps Clearview altogether.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on June 24, 2020, 01:03:57 PM
A few of the valley cities are installing newer, thinner LED street name signs to use at signalized intersections. Most don't seem to use Clearview, except in Phoenix and Peoria. I actually saw a few NON Clearview signs in Phoenix recently. They were along 59th Ave where the new section of Loop 202 is.


Chandler and Queen Creek are still using the larger box type, although I think the new installations have LED kits pre-installed instead of fluorescent tubes.  Also, Tempe is still using those "Modular" traffic posts with the integrated sign.

Oddly, Chandler seems to be using Clearview for non-signalized intersections, but is using Helvetica for their signalized intersections.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on June 24, 2020, 02:06:14 PM
A few of the valley cities are installing newer, thinner LED street name signs to use at signalized intersections. Most don't seem to use Clearview, except in Phoenix and Peoria. I actually saw a few NON Clearview signs in Phoenix recently. They were along 59th Ave where the new section of Loop 202 is.

I would have thought the novelty of non-Clearview signs would have worn away by now. Is Clearview still that common parts of Arizona?

It's one of the few places where I've seen multiple Clearview speed limit signs, although I figured the "Clearview no matter what" era would have passed by now, and perhaps Clearview altogether.

Non-Clearview lighted street signs for traffic signals are rare in the city of Phoenix. I haven't noticed NEW Clearview installations anywhere else in the valley lately (other than Peoria).
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: jakeroot on June 24, 2020, 03:51:02 PM
A few of the valley cities are installing newer, thinner LED street name signs to use at signalized intersections. Most don't seem to use Clearview, except in Phoenix and Peoria. I actually saw a few NON Clearview signs in Phoenix recently. They were along 59th Ave where the new section of Loop 202 is.

I would have thought the novelty of non-Clearview signs would have worn away by now. Is Clearview still that common parts of Arizona?

It's one of the few places where I've seen multiple Clearview speed limit signs, although I figured the "Clearview no matter what" era would have passed by now, and perhaps Clearview altogether.

Non-Clearview lighted street signs for traffic signals are rare in the city of Phoenix. I haven't noticed NEW Clearview installations anywhere else in the valley lately (other than Peoria).

Gotcha. Credit to Phoenix for at least doing a good job using Clearview. I'd be surprised if, at the end of the day, Phoenix ever switched back to FHWA for a couple reasons: (1) street blades generally are exempt for typeface requirements anyway, and (2) their usage of Clearview is more than legible; if they already went through the trouble of switching their standards to adjust for Clearview, I don't see why they'd need to move back to FHWA for what is, at best, a negligible gain in readability (if any at all).
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on June 24, 2020, 04:31:58 PM
A couple pics of the newer signs in Phoenix:(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200624/0bf89019adc5b784b752afd83fa76dfd.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200624/cc16fdef688cdd1dbc35363d13b84f2c.jpg)

SM-G975U

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: stevashe on June 24, 2020, 07:28:52 PM
(1) street blades generally are exempt for typeface requirements anyway.

As far as I know, there is no such exemption; some cities just use other fonts because they think they can get away with it (and for the most part, they can).
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: roadfro on June 25, 2020, 04:54:44 PM
(1) street blades generally are exempt for typeface requirements anyway.

As far as I know, there is no such exemption; some cities just use other fonts because they think they can get away with it (and for the most part, they can).

Correct. All sign lettering is to use standard alphabets (except where Clearview is allowed via Interim Approval).

Quote from: 2009 MUTCD, Chapter 2A
Section 2A.13 Word Messages

Standard:
01 Except as provided in Section 2A.06, all word messages shall use standard wording and letters as shown in this Manual and in the "Standard Highway Signs and Markings" book (see Section 1A.11).

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ztonyg on July 08, 2020, 11:56:49 PM
Are there any plans to complete the stack at US 60 and Loop 101?

ADOT built high speed ramps from S/B 101 to E/B 60 and from N/B 101 to W/B 60 but the E/B 60 to N/B 101 and W/B 60 to S/B 101 were built on the cheap due to budget issues early 1990s. It seems that the space and provisions are there (including a sign assembly on W/B 60 to N/B 101 ramp that clearly is intended to allow for a connection to a W/B 60 to S/B 101 ramp) to complete the other two high speed movements and make it a symmetrical stack.

The interchange essentially functions as a cloverstack without the loops and the low speed movements are rather frightening unlike the turbine-stack hybrid a few miles north at Loop 101 and Loop 202 which functions relatively well.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: KeithE4Phx on July 09, 2020, 12:58:17 AM
Are there any plans to complete the stack at US 60 and Loop 101?

I've never heard of any.  Right now, Arizona has far higher priorities than rebuilding freeway ramps that are less than perfect.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on July 10, 2020, 10:07:58 PM
The only freeway-to-freeway ramps that may be modified in the future are the connections between AZ 143 and I-10.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on July 12, 2020, 01:04:28 AM
Yeah, ADOT has much bigger fish to fry than changing those two ramps. They're about to embark on a complete rebuild of I-10 from Chandler through the Broadway Curve here within the next couple years and that's going to be a complete catastrophuck during construction.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: KeithE4Phx on July 12, 2020, 09:06:50 PM
Yeah, ADOT has much bigger fish to fry than changing those two ramps. They're about to embark on a complete rebuild of I-10 from Chandler through the Broadway Curve here within the next couple years and that's going to be a complete catastrophuck during construction.

The exits for the 143 are at one end of that rebuild.  Hopefully they'll upgrade them at the same time.  At least it's good to know that I no longer have to drive that stretch to work.  I had to between 2002 and 2014, when I lived in Ahwatukee and worked near Sky Harbor.  I don't miss it for a minute.  :)
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: rte66man on July 13, 2020, 07:54:30 AM
Yeah, ADOT has much bigger fish to fry than changing those two ramps. They're about to embark on a complete rebuild of I-10 from Chandler through the Broadway Curve here within the next couple years and that's going to be a complete catastrophuck during construction.

The exits for the 143 are at one end of that rebuild.  Hopefully they'll upgrade them at the same time.  At least it's good to know that I no longer have to drive that stretch to work.  I had to between 2002 and 2014, when I lived in Ahwatukee and worked near Sky Harbor.  I don't miss it for a minute.  :)

While looking at that interchange, I noticed southbound Price Road has an unusual bridge:
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.3859286,-111.8936511,467m/data=!3m1!1e3

Why is it so wide?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Zonie on July 13, 2020, 11:45:10 AM
Yeah, ADOT has much bigger fish to fry than changing those two ramps. They're about to embark on a complete rebuild of I-10 from Chandler through the Broadway Curve here within the next couple years and that's going to be a complete catastrophuck during construction.

The exits for the 143 are at one end of that rebuild.  Hopefully they'll upgrade them at the same time.  At least it's good to know that I no longer have to drive that stretch to work.  I had to between 2002 and 2014, when I lived in Ahwatukee and worked near Sky Harbor.  I don't miss it for a minute.  :)

While looking at that interchange, I noticed southbound Price Road has an unusual bridge:
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.3859286,-111.8936511,467m/data=!3m1!1e3

Why is it so wide?

IIRC, that was the original Price Road alignment.  It was a four-lane, N-S route.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: KeithE4Phx on July 13, 2020, 11:22:23 PM
Yeah, ADOT has much bigger fish to fry than changing those two ramps. They're about to embark on a complete rebuild of I-10 from Chandler through the Broadway Curve here within the next couple years and that's going to be a complete catastrophuck during construction.

The exits for the 143 are at one end of that rebuild.  Hopefully they'll upgrade them at the same time.  At least it's good to know that I no longer have to drive that stretch to work.  I had to between 2002 and 2014, when I lived in Ahwatukee and worked near Sky Harbor.  I don't miss it for a minute.  :)

While looking at that interchange, I noticed southbound Price Road has an unusual bridge:
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.3859286,-111.8936511,467m/data=!3m1!1e3

Why is it so wide?

IIRC, that was the original Price Road alignment.  It was a four-lane, N-S route.

The original Price Rd. was a canal maintenance dirt road.  That canal was where the 101 is now, and is not the one that exists just east of there today that extends from the Salt River, NE of Mesa at Granite Reef Dam, to Dobson Ranch on the SW side of the city.  This was at least through the mid 1970s.

I don't know when the canal was filled in/relocated into Mesa.  IIRC, it was the road on the west (Tempe) side of the old canal that became the first paved version of Price Rd. sometime in the late '70s or early '80s.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on July 14, 2020, 02:59:36 AM
Correct. Before the 101 was built, Price Rd was a normal N-S arterial street with ramps going to the Superstition on the west side (WB on, EB off). The canal itself actually passed over the freeway just east of the Price overpass. When the 101 was built, the canal was relocated and the bridge was actually converted into the SB 101 overpass, Price NB got shifted over to the other side, and they just left the existing Price overpass to be used by SB only. Check out HistoricAerials.com and you can see the entire interchange get built and the Price/Superstition connection get all changed around.

Yeah, ADOT has much bigger fish to fry than changing those two ramps. They're about to embark on a complete rebuild of I-10 from Chandler through the Broadway Curve here within the next couple years and that's going to be a complete catastrophuck during construction.

The exits for the 143 are at one end of that rebuild.  Hopefully they'll upgrade them at the same time.  At least it's good to know that I no longer have to drive that stretch to work.  I had to between 2002 and 2014, when I lived in Ahwatukee and worked near Sky Harbor.  I don't miss it for a minute.  :)

While looking at that interchange, I noticed southbound Price Road has an unusual bridge:
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.3859286,-111.8936511,467m/data=!3m1!1e3

Why is it so wide?

IIRC, that was the original Price Road alignment.  It was a four-lane, N-S route.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on August 01, 2020, 09:56:45 PM
I went up I-17 in North Phoenix today, and several of the Skyline DMS were retrofitted with the color SES America boards.  They are not as high resolution as the new color Daktronics DMS, however, they seem to be very legible, being quite a bit brighter than they were before they were retrofitted.  I'm going to miss the "swoosh" effect that the Skyline signs make when switching between displays, but apparently there was an issue with them disconnecting from ADOT's Cameleon ITS network due to some unknown incompatibility, requiring onsite reboots.  I wonder if Skyline plans on resolving the issue in preparation for the next RFP when Daktronics' contract with ADOT expires (which runs up to a maximum of 2022).

Also, some of the Daktronics character matrix LED signs are starting to show their age.  I wonder if ADOT plans on refurbishing them.  On the Loop 101 Price Freeway ADOT did a full replacement with new Daktronics color LED signs.  Most of the Daktronics character matrix LED signs are installed in the Phoenix and Tucson areas; they are fairly rare in rural Arizona.  I think these were installed from 2007 to 2012, with one additional sign in Tucson installed in 2014.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ztonyg on August 04, 2020, 08:24:03 PM
I went up I-17 in North Phoenix today, and several of the Skyline DMS were retrofitted with the color SES America boards.  They are not as high resolution as the new color Daktronics DMS, however, they seem to be very legible, being quite a bit brighter than they were before they were retrofitted.  I'm going to miss the "swoosh" effect that the Skyline signs make when switching between displays, but apparently there was an issue with them disconnecting from ADOT's Cameleon ITS network due to some unknown incompatibility, requiring onsite reboots.  I wonder if Skyline plans on resolving the issue in preparation for the next RFP when Daktronics' contract with ADOT expires (which runs up to a maximum of 2022).

Also, some of the Daktronics character matrix LED signs are starting to show their age.  I wonder if ADOT plans on refurbishing them.  On the Loop 101 Price Freeway ADOT did a full replacement with new Daktronics color LED signs.  Most of the Daktronics character matrix LED signs are installed in the Phoenix and Tucson areas; they are fairly rare in rural Arizona.  I think these were installed from 2007 to 2012, with one additional sign in Tucson installed in 2014.

I saw the retrofitted Skyline signs on I-17 today. What an improvement over the old format (especially that horrible font ADOT uses/used on about 1/2 of their Skyline signs). If you want to see the "swoosh" the sign immediately proceeding and immediately after Loop 101 on N/B I-17 still have not been retrofitted (although they use the legible font and not the "bad" Skyline font).
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on August 05, 2020, 05:51:59 PM
As for retrofitting the Daktronics character matrix signs in addition to the SES America retrofit product Daktronics now offers a similar product of their own.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ztonyg on August 05, 2020, 08:21:03 PM
Looks like the Loop 101 in the North Valley will use diamond grinding as opposed to rubberized asphalt once the construction is finished:

https://azdot.gov/sites/default/files/media/2020/05/Diamond-Grinding-Flier-English.pdf
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: DJStephens on August 08, 2020, 05:23:07 AM
Appears a short section of I-10 in W Tucson had this done as well.  Did seem folly to cover that original high quality concrete up with cheap asphalt overlay to begin with.   
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on August 08, 2020, 02:39:24 PM
Portions of I-17 are going back to concrete. For now, it's just Dunlap Ave to Thunderbird Rd. Pinnacle Peak Rd to Happy Valley Rd is also a possibility.

Speaking of Happy Valley Rd, the notorious roundabouts there are getting removed starting this weekend. Sometime in October, the SB exit and NB entrance ramps will reopen. Don't know if it will operate as a DDI yet, or later this year.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Plutonic Panda on August 08, 2020, 05:02:35 PM
I love Arizona is switching back to concrete. Hopefully other states do the same. OkDOT is inconsistent. California seems to mainly use concrete for large projects like Texas.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: KeithE4Phx on August 08, 2020, 05:32:04 PM
California seems to mainly use concrete for large projects like Texas.

California is paving Texas?  :)
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Plutonic Panda on August 08, 2020, 06:04:21 PM
California seems to mainly use concrete for large projects like Texas.

California is paving Texas?  :)
Sorry I’m in Palm Springs and started my drinking early today.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: rte66man on August 09, 2020, 04:31:14 PM
I love Arizona is switching back to concrete. Hopefully other states do the same. OkDOT is inconsistent. 

Seems to depend on what the project is. If they are doing a full-on rebuild (removing all pavement down to the base and starting over) then they seem to be going with concrete (at least on the interstates). For US and OK roads, asphalt is cheaper so they've been going with that. I35 south has been mostly rebuilt and they went with concrete except where they got by with a resurfacing. Same for I40 east of OKC.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Plutonic Panda on August 09, 2020, 04:44:59 PM
However I noticed in Norman they used asphalt and it was a pretty major project. That’s the only example I can think of right now.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: rte66man on August 09, 2020, 08:14:26 PM
However I noticed in Norman they used asphalt and it was a pretty major project. That’s the only example I can think of right now.

I thought they didn't take that back down to the base, rather they ground off at least one layer of asphalt. However I'm getting forgetful in my old age :)
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Exit58 on August 11, 2020, 03:04:36 AM
I love Arizona is switching back to concrete. Hopefully other states do the same. OkDOT is inconsistent. California seems to mainly use concrete for large projects like Texas.

Yesssss I'm very happy about this. I got very excited when I saw the test strip they did on the Santan near Dobson. It's a much softer and quieter ride that will hopefully require less downtime and less teeth pulling when it comes time to replace it. The Santan is a horror show to drive on. The pavement is so old and weathered.

The light hum it makes takes me back to my childhood in California.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: jakeroot on August 11, 2020, 02:23:56 PM
California seems to mainly use concrete for large projects like Texas.

California is paving Texas?  :)
Sorry I’m in Palm Springs and started my drinking early today.

I got it. Just needed a period (aka full stop) after "projects". Fragmented sentence, but fine for a forum.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ztonyg on August 12, 2020, 12:44:50 AM
Portions of I-17 are going back to concrete. For now, it's just Dunlap Ave to Thunderbird Rd. Pinnacle Peak Rd to Happy Valley Rd is also a possibility.

Speaking of Happy Valley Rd, the notorious roundabouts there are getting removed starting this weekend. Sometime in October, the SB exit and NB entrance ramps will reopen. Don't know if it will operate as a DDI yet, or later this year.

Is the I-17 diamond grinding complete from Dunlap Ave to Thunderbird Rd or is its current state just the 1st phase.

While it isn't particularly loud, it's relatively rough.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on August 12, 2020, 10:23:19 AM
I saw that the new Daktronics DMS being installed on L-101 Price Freeway SB on the "T" post appears to be a front access model instead of walk-in. I know the ADOT's contract with Daktronics includes both walk-in and front access. The overhead ones are all walk-in.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ztonyg on August 12, 2020, 11:59:42 AM
I saw that the new Daktronics DMS being installed on L-101 Price Freeway SB on the "T" post appears to be a front access model instead of walk-in. I know the ADOT's contract with Daktronics includes both walk-in and front access. The overhead ones are all walk-in.

Interesting. I wasn't sure that ADOT was going to do the "T" post DMSs on urban freeways.

This makes more sense then for the DMS on the Loop 101 E/B west of Hayden Road. It was formerly overhead mounted but during the widening project the overhead DMS was taken down and the DMS (a Daktronics character matrix) has been sitting on ground level on a concrete slab next to the freeway. Believe it or not the DMS is still fully functional and ADOT is currently displaying messages on it. I'd assume the ultimate goal would be to mount it (or a different DMS model) on a T-pole as there is no support base for a monotube (or any other kind of overhead mount) in the newly installed median concrete.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: jakeroot on August 12, 2020, 02:26:09 PM
I saw that the new Daktronics DMS being installed on L-101 Price Freeway SB on the "T" post appears to be a front access model instead of walk-in. I know the ADOT's contract with Daktronics includes both walk-in and front access. The overhead ones are all walk-in.

Interesting. I wasn't sure that ADOT was going to do the "T" post DMSs on urban freeways.

This makes more sense then for the DMS on the Loop 101 E/B west of Hayden Road. It was formerly overhead mounted but during the widening project the overhead DMS was taken down and the DMS (a Daktronics character matrix) has been sitting on ground level on a concrete slab next to the freeway. Believe it or not the DMS is still fully functional and ADOT is currently displaying messages on it. I'd assume the ultimate goal would be to mount it (or a different DMS model) on a T-pole as there is no support base for a monotube (or any other kind of overhead mount) in the newly installed median concrete.

GSV for anyone interested: https://goo.gl/maps/ozw9iwSVBpCJpo6AA

I've definitely never seen anything like this.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ztonyg on August 12, 2020, 03:39:06 PM
I saw that the new Daktronics DMS being installed on L-101 Price Freeway SB on the "T" post appears to be a front access model instead of walk-in. I know the ADOT's contract with Daktronics includes both walk-in and front access. The overhead ones are all walk-in.

Interesting. I wasn't sure that ADOT was going to do the "T" post DMSs on urban freeways.

This makes more sense then for the DMS on the Loop 101 E/B west of Hayden Road. It was formerly overhead mounted but during the widening project the overhead DMS was taken down and the DMS (a Daktronics character matrix) has been sitting on ground level on a concrete slab next to the freeway. Believe it or not the DMS is still fully functional and ADOT is currently displaying messages on it. I'd assume the ultimate goal would be to mount it (or a different DMS model) on a T-pole as there is no support base for a monotube (or any other kind of overhead mount) in the newly installed median concrete.

GSV for anyone interested: https://goo.gl/maps/ozw9iwSVBpCJpo6AA

I've definitely never seen anything like this.

It's actually stranger now as the mainline has reverted back to its pre-construction location so the DMS is somewhat obstructed by the construction on the right side of the road.

I drove the 101 Price in both directions between US 60 and the Loop 202 Santan today. ADOT did a nice job with it and the completed diamond ground concrete was quiet and smooth.

Back to the DMS topic it appears that what they did was replace the 2 overhead Daktronics character matrix walk in DMSs with 2 Daktronics full matrix walk in DMSs and then immediately across the freeway they added in 2 "T" mounted front access Daktronics DMSs on the right side of the road.

The more interesting item is that they are replacing the 1 overhead FDS/Sylvia (retrofitted by SES America) character matrix DMS on the Price Freeway S/B just south of Baseline Rd. with a right side "T" mounted front access DMS (presumably a Daktronics unless they simply relocate the overhead DMS to the right side of the freeway).

GSV shows the base of the new DMS directly in front of and to the left of the existing DMS supports:

https://goo.gl/maps/ecaDh2KwDEa1g2Ga6

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on August 12, 2020, 10:45:35 PM
I wonder, are the DMS on the Loop 303 walk-in or front access?  I know the ones on the "T" poles in the rural areas of Arizona are walk-in, but the new ones that were installed on the Loop 101 Price Freeway are front access (the new overhead ones are walk-in).

As for the existing FDS Sylvia/SES America DMS on the Loop 101 Price Freeway, I think that one was retrofitted as recently as 2017 or 2018, so it seems like it would be strange to replace it only 2-3 years later.  Perhaps ADOT wants to modernize the Loop 101 Price with new color full matrix DMS, considering ADOT did a full replacement of the Daktronics character matrix DMS.

I wonder if we will start seeing travel times on the Loop 202 SanTan once the Skyline DMS get retrofitted with the color SES America boards.  These will probably be among the last to get retrofitted, since these are some of the newest Skyline DMS in Arizona.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on August 14, 2020, 10:33:43 AM
Confirmed that the FDS Sylvia/SES America DMS on the Loop 101 Price Freeway SB is being replaced by a Daktronics full matrix color DMS. I saw them installed side by side today.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: The Ghostbuster on August 14, 2020, 09:20:40 PM
So Loop 303 will officially be extended from its current southern terminus at W. Van Buren St. southward all the way to Interstate 8. When they're done with that, maybe they could extend it even further south to the US/Mexican Border.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: splashflash on August 15, 2020, 10:13:00 AM
So Loop 303 will officially be extended from its current southern terminus at W. Van Buren St. southward all the way to Interstate 8. When they're done with that, maybe they could extend it even further south to the US/Mexican Border.
Oh? Here is what I find from the ADOT website.  The 2012 study was not finalized, but indicated it running south to 
the Hassayampa Freeway, that is Interstate 11, rather than I-8.

Loop 303: State Route 30 to Hassayampa Freeway Study
 Arizona Department of Transportation and the Federal Highway Administration are conducting a study and environmental overview to identify and evaluate the most feasible transportation corridor / river crossing for the future extension of Loop 303 between the proposed State Route 30 and Hassayampa Freeway. The proposed corridor could be located within the city of Goodyear and unincorporated sections of Maricopa County.

The proposed Loop 303 extension may include four travel lanes, a high-occupancy vehicle (HOV) lane in each direction and a new Gila River crossing. The Loop 303 corridor may ultimately connect to Maricopa Association of Governments' proposed Hassayampa Freeway
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: The Ghostbuster on August 15, 2020, 06:24:45 PM
I got my information from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_State_Route_303. Maybe I should have gone elsewhere for a second opinion.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: rte66man on August 16, 2020, 09:04:58 AM
I got my information from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_State_Route_303. Maybe I should have gone elsewhere for a second opinion.

Wikipedia can be helpful IF there are valid citations backing up what is said. That article only had one citation.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: splashflash on August 16, 2020, 11:54:39 AM
I got my information from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_State_Route_303. Maybe I should have gone elsewhere for a second opinion.

Wikipedia can be helpful IF there are valid citations backing up what is said. That article only had one citation.

http://www.i11study.com/arizona/. While I-11 is under review, even it may not come to fruition.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: DJStephens on August 16, 2020, 04:18:44 PM
I got my information from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_State_Route_303. Maybe I should have gone elsewhere for a second opinion.

Wikipedia can be helpful IF there are valid citations backing up what is said. That article only had one citation.

http://www.i11study.com/arizona/. While I-11 is under review, even it may not come to fruition.

Incredibly wasteful, and duplicative.  Does not even use the AZ-85 corridor.  Run it down Grand avenue, as originally planned!   Am of opinion any new construction/upgrades should be on current US 60, S of Wickenburg.   
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ztonyg on August 16, 2020, 04:32:44 PM
I got my information from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_State_Route_303. Maybe I should have gone elsewhere for a second opinion.

Wikipedia can be helpful IF there are valid citations backing up what is said. That article only had one citation.

http://www.i11study.com/arizona/. While I-11 is under review, even it may not come to fruition.

Incredibly wasteful, and duplicative.  Does not even use the AZ-85 corridor.  Run it down Grand avenue, as originally planned!   Am of opinion any new construction/upgrades should be on current US 60, S of Wickenburg.

I believe that there should be 2 things that occur.

1.) Upgrade AZ-85 to a full freeway.
2.) Upgrade US 60 to a full freeway from Wickenberg to Loop 303 and then run I-11 down Loop 303 which would end at AZ-30.

The AZ-30 freeway and I-10 would be sufficient to connect AZ-85 to the Loop 303 / I-11 corridor.

I wonder, are the DMS on the Loop 303 walk-in or front access?  I know the ones on the "T" poles in the rural areas of Arizona are walk-in, but the new ones that were installed on the Loop 101 Price Freeway are front access (the new overhead ones are walk-in).

As for the existing FDS Sylvia/SES America DMS on the Loop 101 Price Freeway, I think that one was retrofitted as recently as 2017 or 2018, so it seems like it would be strange to replace it only 2-3 years later.  Perhaps ADOT wants to modernize the Loop 101 Price with new color full matrix DMS, considering ADOT did a full replacement of the Daktronics character matrix DMS.

I wonder if we will start seeing travel times on the Loop 202 SanTan once the Skyline DMS get retrofitted with the color SES America boards.  These will probably be among the last to get retrofitted, since these are some of the newest Skyline DMS in Arizona.

On the topic of Loop 303 DMSs, it appears that they are front access in on "T-poles". GSV was my friend on this one.

https://goo.gl/maps/FASf1xmjKp5dMTAy6

On the topic of travel times. When will ADOT start posting travel times at a point on WB I-10 from downtown to either 59th Ave or Loop 202?

For years the WB DMSs in the vicinity of Downtown (including on the segement of I-17 that is south of I-10) displayed the travel time to I-10 and 59th Ave. During the Loop 202 construction travel times to 59th Ave were no longer posted but since Loop 202 has been completed all of the WB DMSs in the vicinity of Downtown still only display travel times to I-17 and Peoria Ave (with the 2nd line blank).
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on August 17, 2020, 07:42:50 PM
There is apparently a bug with the new Daktronics sign that replaced the FDS Sylvia/America sign when displaying travel times. It is displaying travel times in a very tiny font.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: BigManFromAFRICA88 on August 18, 2020, 01:33:54 AM
I got my information from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_State_Route_303. Maybe I should have gone elsewhere for a second opinion.

Wikipedia can be helpful IF there are valid citations backing up what is said. That article only had one citation.

http://www.i11study.com/arizona/. While I-11 is under review, even it may not come to fruition.

Incredibly wasteful, and duplicative.  Does not even use the AZ-85 corridor.  Run it down Grand avenue, as originally planned!   Am of opinion any new construction/upgrades should be on current US 60, S of Wickenburg.   
t
We all know running I-11 down Grand Avenue any inches past Loop 303 would be an eminent domain mess and an economic leech. That being said I wish the preferred alternative for I-11 were a bit further away from I-10 but...
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on September 02, 2020, 07:11:47 PM
Looks like Queen Creek has gone back to Highway Gothic again, and the newest lighted signs have the letters in an extra large size.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: The Ghostbuster on September 03, 2020, 02:43:44 PM
Looks like the Loop 303 page on Wikipedia has been changed. At present, it is not planned to extend further south than MC 85. I don't know why they posted it as saying it would go all the way south to Interstate 8. Sounds like wishful thinking if you ask me. Also, why are the exit numbers numbered the way they are? The numbers should be about 100 lower than they are. And I thought Interstate 17's numbers were goofy.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Zonie on September 04, 2020, 01:13:13 PM
Looks like the Loop 303 page on Wikipedia has been changed. At present, it is not planned to extend further south than MC 85. I don't know why they posted it as saying it would go all the way south to Interstate 8. Sounds like wishful thinking if you ask me. Also, why are the exit numbers numbered the way they are? The numbers should be about 100 lower than they are. And I thought Interstate 17's numbers were goofy.

Since the south end of Loop 303 isn't know, the intersection with MC 85 was set at MP 100.  This way, if Loop 303 extends further south, there wouldn't be the need to renumber the entire freeway. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on September 14, 2020, 02:06:24 PM
These street name signs in Glendale should be used more. Larger text than their older signs, and incorporate the new city logo.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200914/43d0db4063e1de7baa574a1d43f8b97c.jpg)

SM-G975U

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: JoePCool14 on September 18, 2020, 08:00:35 AM
These street name signs in Glendale should be used more. Larger text than their older signs, and incorporate the new city logo.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200914/43d0db4063e1de7baa574a1d43f8b97c.jpg)

SM-G975U

+1

Those look sharp and clean, and best of all, they don't use Clearview!
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Exit58 on September 25, 2020, 03:18:55 PM
These street name signs in Glendale should be used more. Larger text than their older signs, and incorporate the new city logo.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200914/43d0db4063e1de7baa574a1d43f8b97c.jpg)

SM-G975U

I also +1 for not using Clearview (yuck!). At the same time, is Glendale trying to court Google or something? I thought for sure that G was for Google hahaha.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Exit58 on September 25, 2020, 03:31:39 PM
I got my information from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_State_Route_303. Maybe I should have gone elsewhere for a second opinion.

Wikipedia can be helpful IF there are valid citations backing up what is said. That article only had one citation.

http://www.i11study.com/arizona/. While I-11 is under review, even it may not come to fruition.

Incredibly wasteful, and duplicative.  Does not even use the AZ-85 corridor.  Run it down Grand avenue, as originally planned!   Am of opinion any new construction/upgrades should be on current US 60, S of Wickenburg.   
t
We all know running I-11 down Grand Avenue any inches past Loop 303 would be an eminent domain mess and an economic leech. That being said I wish the preferred alternative for I-11 were a bit further away from I-10 but...

I don't mind the current route personally. I-10 is always going to be a headache trying to widen since it runs through Gila River. Plus with the anticipated growth of the valley to the SW I think it's going to be needed. Maricopa is growing at a decent clip and is only served by 347 - which I have driven lately and during off peak it's fine but rush hour GOOD LUCK! It's not even a freeway, just an expressway that ADOT is going to add another light to I believe this coming year. Sure, you could connect using Mobile Rd (which becomes SR 238 near Mobile) from SR 85 but that involves dropping south all the way to Gila Bend.

Goodyear - which annexed Mobile before the 2008 crash - is talking about extending Happy Valley Rd down to SR 238 as a two-lane. That would give a minor alternative but that's a long drive on a two-lane road.

Fun fact: Goodyear, Maricopa and Casa Grande almost touch each other. I was shocked to find that out.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ztonyg on September 28, 2020, 07:39:18 PM
ADOT is replacing the overhead Daktronics fixed character DMSs along the Loop 101 Pima project area (I-17 to Pima Rd) with walk in “T-pole” full matrix Daktonocs DMSs (mounted on the right side of the freeway).

The new DMSs are already installed on W/B loop 101 just past Pima Rd. As well as on W/B Loop 101 at Cave Creek Rd. (Although the signs that they are replacing are still operational).
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: howlincoyote2k1 on October 01, 2020, 01:59:12 AM
I got my information from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_State_Route_303. Maybe I should have gone elsewhere for a second opinion.

Wikipedia can be helpful IF there are valid citations backing up what is said. That article only had one citation.

http://www.i11study.com/arizona/. While I-11 is under review, even it may not come to fruition.

Incredibly wasteful, and duplicative.  Does not even use the AZ-85 corridor.  Run it down Grand avenue, as originally planned!   Am of opinion any new construction/upgrades should be on current US 60, S of Wickenburg.   
t
We all know running I-11 down Grand Avenue any inches past Loop 303 would be an eminent domain mess and an economic leech. That being said I wish the preferred alternative for I-11 were a bit further away from I-10 but...

I don't mind the current route personally. I-10 is always going to be a headache trying to widen since it runs through Gila River. Plus with the anticipated growth of the valley to the SW I think it's going to be needed. Maricopa is growing at a decent clip and is only served by 347 - which I have driven lately and during off peak it's fine but rush hour GOOD LUCK! It's not even a freeway, just an expressway that ADOT is going to add another light to I believe this coming year. Sure, you could connect using Mobile Rd (which becomes SR 238 near Mobile) from SR 85 but that involves dropping south all the way to Gila Bend.

Goodyear - which annexed Mobile before the 2008 crash - is talking about extending Happy Valley Rd down to SR 238 as a two-lane. That would give a minor alternative but that's a long drive on a two-lane road.

Fun fact: Goodyear, Maricopa and Casa Grande almost touch each other. I was shocked to find that out.

I hear you that a freeway in the SW valley is going to be needed for the growth, and I would agree with that. I-11, however, is not the solution to that problem.

Let me reiterate once again:

The objective of Interstate 11 should be to connect the cities of Las Vegas, Nevada and Phoenix, Arizona. Period. End of discussion.

It's not to relieve traffic in parts of the Valley. It's not to provide a Phoenix bypass. It's not to provide relief to I-10. I won't deny that those are indeed issues, but they need their own solutions independent of Interstate 11.

It's to provide a direct Interstate link between two large metropolitan areas in the American Southwest.

I can live with I-11 meeting I-10 at the current 303 junction in Goodyear, considering Grand Avenue has been built up beyond that point and extending I-11 further in would be impossible. But connecting I-11 to I-10 out in Buckeye or Tonopah defeats the whole purpose of the interstate and the two cities remain without a complete, direct connection.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ztonyg on October 01, 2020, 05:18:24 PM
I got my information from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_State_Route_303. Maybe I should have gone elsewhere for a second opinion.

Wikipedia can be helpful IF there are valid citations backing up what is said. That article only had one citation.

http://www.i11study.com/arizona/. While I-11 is under review, even it may not come to fruition.

Incredibly wasteful, and duplicative.  Does not even use the AZ-85 corridor.  Run it down Grand avenue, as originally planned!   Am of opinion any new construction/upgrades should be on current US 60, S of Wickenburg.   
t
We all know running I-11 down Grand Avenue any inches past Loop 303 would be an eminent domain mess and an economic leech. That being said I wish the preferred alternative for I-11 were a bit further away from I-10 but...

I don't mind the current route personally. I-10 is always going to be a headache trying to widen since it runs through Gila River. Plus with the anticipated growth of the valley to the SW I think it's going to be needed. Maricopa is growing at a decent clip and is only served by 347 - which I have driven lately and during off peak it's fine but rush hour GOOD LUCK! It's not even a freeway, just an expressway that ADOT is going to add another light to I believe this coming year. Sure, you could connect using Mobile Rd (which becomes SR 238 near Mobile) from SR 85 but that involves dropping south all the way to Gila Bend.

Goodyear - which annexed Mobile before the 2008 crash - is talking about extending Happy Valley Rd down to SR 238 as a two-lane. That would give a minor alternative but that's a long drive on a two-lane road.

Fun fact: Goodyear, Maricopa and Casa Grande almost touch each other. I was shocked to find that out.

I hear you that a freeway in the SW valley is going to be needed for the growth, and I would agree with that. I-11, however, is not the solution to that problem.

Let me reiterate once again:

The objective of Interstate 11 should be to connect the cities of Las Vegas, Nevada and Phoenix, Arizona. Period. End of discussion.

It's not to relieve traffic in parts of the Valley. It's not to provide a Phoenix bypass. It's not to provide relief to I-10. I won't deny that those are indeed issues, but they need their own solutions independent of Interstate 11.

It's to provide a direct Interstate link between two large metropolitan areas in the American Southwest.

I can live with I-11 meeting I-10 at the current 303 junction in Goodyear, considering Grand Avenue has been built up beyond that point and extending I-11 further in would be impossible. But connecting I-11 to I-10 out in Buckeye or Tonopah defeats the whole purpose of the interstate and the two cities remain without a complete, direct connection.

Honestly ADOT simply needs to upgrade AZ 85 from I-8 to I-10 to a freeway. The interchange was I-10 is already a fully freeway - freeway interchange and they have ROW and frontage roads already from I-10 until the Gila River. Why ADOT decided to focus on ridiculous proposals such as I-11 routings through the middle of nowhere or useless Loop 303 extensions, I don't know.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: howlincoyote2k1 on October 03, 2020, 11:40:19 PM
I got my information from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_State_Route_303. Maybe I should have gone elsewhere for a second opinion.

Wikipedia can be helpful IF there are valid citations backing up what is said. That article only had one citation.

http://www.i11study.com/arizona/. While I-11 is under review, even it may not come to fruition.

Incredibly wasteful, and duplicative.  Does not even use the AZ-85 corridor.  Run it down Grand avenue, as originally planned!   Am of opinion any new construction/upgrades should be on current US 60, S of Wickenburg.   
t
We all know running I-11 down Grand Avenue any inches past Loop 303 would be an eminent domain mess and an economic leech. That being said I wish the preferred alternative for I-11 were a bit further away from I-10 but...

I don't mind the current route personally. I-10 is always going to be a headache trying to widen since it runs through Gila River. Plus with the anticipated growth of the valley to the SW I think it's going to be needed. Maricopa is growing at a decent clip and is only served by 347 - which I have driven lately and during off peak it's fine but rush hour GOOD LUCK! It's not even a freeway, just an expressway that ADOT is going to add another light to I believe this coming year. Sure, you could connect using Mobile Rd (which becomes SR 238 near Mobile) from SR 85 but that involves dropping south all the way to Gila Bend.

Goodyear - which annexed Mobile before the 2008 crash - is talking about extending Happy Valley Rd down to SR 238 as a two-lane. That would give a minor alternative but that's a long drive on a two-lane road.

Fun fact: Goodyear, Maricopa and Casa Grande almost touch each other. I was shocked to find that out.

I hear you that a freeway in the SW valley is going to be needed for the growth, and I would agree with that. I-11, however, is not the solution to that problem.

Let me reiterate once again:

The objective of Interstate 11 should be to connect the cities of Las Vegas, Nevada and Phoenix, Arizona. Period. End of discussion.

It's not to relieve traffic in parts of the Valley. It's not to provide a Phoenix bypass. It's not to provide relief to I-10. I won't deny that those are indeed issues, but they need their own solutions independent of Interstate 11.

It's to provide a direct Interstate link between two large metropolitan areas in the American Southwest.

I can live with I-11 meeting I-10 at the current 303 junction in Goodyear, considering Grand Avenue has been built up beyond that point and extending I-11 further in would be impossible. But connecting I-11 to I-10 out in Buckeye or Tonopah defeats the whole purpose of the interstate and the two cities remain without a complete, direct connection.

Honestly ADOT simply needs to upgrade AZ 85 from I-8 to I-10 to a freeway. The interchange was I-10 is already a fully freeway - freeway interchange and they have ROW and frontage roads already from I-10 until the Gila River. Why ADOT decided to focus on ridiculous proposals such as I-11 routings through the middle of nowhere or useless Loop 303 extensions, I don't know.

Agreed. I have to imagine it shouldn't be too bad, aside from the construction of the new interchange at I-8. As a bonus; extend AZ 85 up to Wickenburg via Aguila Rd and Vulture Mine Rd. Both roads are paved and seem to be in good condition, so an upgrade should be pretty easy. Building ramps to the Aguila Rd overpass over I-10 might be the hardest part of the project. If ADOT wants to spur growth in that area (although Sun Valley Parkway hasn't done that yet in how many years?), that might be the way to do it while still steering I-11 towards L303.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on October 18, 2020, 02:25:08 PM
So the new DDI at I-17 and Happy Valley Rd is  open. Relatively minor work to be done still. Took a pic while I was at the light. Interesting that the "Happy Valley" sign is a city of Phoenix installation, since all the signals, lighting, etc. are all ADOT standard.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201018/59075a5243457c1f2f04c938b54f89ba.jpg)

SM-G975U

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Duke87 on October 18, 2020, 05:13:36 PM
I can live with I-11 meeting I-10 at the current 303 junction in Goodyear, considering Grand Avenue has been built up beyond that point and extending I-11 further in would be impossible. But connecting I-11 to I-10 out in Buckeye or Tonopah defeats the whole purpose of the interstate and the two cities remain without a complete, direct connection.

The problem with the 10/303 junction as an endpoint is that getting there means passing through White Tank Mountain. Which besides being unfriendly terrain for freeway construction is also a non-starter due to Section 4(f).

So you're not getting it to hit I-10 anywhere east of AZ 85 unless you route it all the way down 60.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: splashflash on October 19, 2020, 07:26:41 AM
I can live with I-11 meeting I-10 at the current 303 junction in Goodyear, considering Grand Avenue has been built up beyond that point and extending I-11 further in would be impossible. But connecting I-11 to I-10 out in Buckeye or Tonopah defeats the whole purpose of the interstate and the two cities remain without a complete, direct connection.

The problem with the 10/303 junction as an endpoint is that getting there means passing through White Tank Mountain. Which besides being unfriendly terrain for freeway construction is also a non-starter due to Section 4(f).

So you're not getting it to hit I-10 anywhere east of AZ 85 unless you route it all the way down 60.

It's disappointing the design options did not hook into the Sun Valley Parkway, which skirts White Tank Mountain to the west.  A northwest to southeast connection between US 93 and the 90 degree bend of the Parkway could save on miles of new road and end a few miles west of AZ 85.


Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: JoePCool14 on October 19, 2020, 09:47:42 AM
So the new DDI at I-17 and Happy Valley Rd is  open. Relatively minor work to be done still. Took a pic while I was at the light. Interesting that the "Happy Valley" sign is a city of Phoenix installation, since all the signals, lighting, etc. are all ADOT standard.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201018/59075a5243457c1f2f04c938b54f89ba.jpg)

SM-G975U

City of Phoenix is still using Clearview?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ztonyg on October 19, 2020, 12:17:24 PM
I don't understand the rhyme or reason for whether or not traffic signals are maintained by ADOT or a local jurisdiction.

In the Phoenix area it appears to be the following (for freeway to surface street interchanges):

ADOT seems responsible for the signals alongside I-10, I-17 and Loop 202 within the city of Phoenix, alongside I-10 in Tolleson, the signals alongside Loop 202 at Dobson, Alma School, McKellips, and Country Club in East Mesa, the signals alongside Loop 101 on the Salt River Indian Community, and the signals alongside US 60 in Apache Junction, all signals alongside Loop 101 in Glendale except for Cardinals Way and Maryland Ave, all signals alongside Loop 101 in Peoria, the signals alongside Loop 303 at Bethany Home Rd, Glendale Ave, and Northern Ave, and the signal at AZ 143 and University Dr. in Phoenix.

It appears that the city of Surprise may be responsible for the signals alongside Loop 303 in its jurisdiction but those could be ADOT signals.

The city of Tempe seems responsible for the signals alongside I-10, US 60, and Loop 101 within its jurisdiction as well as the signal at I-10 and AZ 143.

The city of Phoenix seems responsible for the signals alongside AZ 51 and Loop 101 within its jurisdiction as well as the signals at AZ 143 and McDowell Rd and Washington St.

The city of Mesa seems responsible for the signals alongside US 60 and most of the signals alongside Loop 202 within its jurisdiction (except for those mentioned alongside loop 202 above).

The cities of Goodyear, Avondale, and Buckeye seem responsible for the signals alongside I-10 in their jurisdictions. Goodyear is also responsible for the signals alongside Loop 303 in its jurisdiction.

The city of Peoria seems responsible for the signals alongside Loop 303 in its jurisdiction.

The city of Scottsdale seems responsible for the signals alongside Loop 101 in its jurisdiction.

The city of Glendale seems responsible for the signals alongside Loop 101 at Cardinals Way and Maryland Ave.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: roadfro on October 20, 2020, 04:16:22 PM
I don't understand the rhyme or reason for whether or not traffic signals are maintained by ADOT or a local jurisdiction.

Is it possible that ADOT doesn't actually maintain signals?

That's my understanding of Nevada DOT's philosophy. NDOT will install traffic signals along their state highways and at freeway interchanges, especially when part of a general (re-)construction project or sometimes just when warranted–but the ongoing operation and maintenance of said signals typically falls to city or county jurisdiction. NDOT will construct the signals to the local standard–although there is not much variation on signal standards and designs across the state (save for some downtown areas) since NDOT's design standards are implemented widely by the local agencies, so this mainly amounts to the local differences in the street name signage.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ztonyg on October 20, 2020, 07:19:33 PM
I don't understand the rhyme or reason for whether or not traffic signals are maintained by ADOT or a local jurisdiction.

Is it possible that ADOT doesn't actually maintain signals?

That's my understanding of Nevada DOT's philosophy. NDOT will install traffic signals along their state highways and at freeway interchanges, especially when part of a general (re-)construction project or sometimes just when warranted–but the ongoing operation and maintenance of said signals typically falls to city or county jurisdiction. NDOT will construct the signals to the local standard–although there is not much variation on signal standards and designs across the state (save for some downtown areas) since NDOT's design standards are implemented widely by the local agencies, so this mainly amounts to the local differences in the street name signage.

Actually in Arizona ADOT does seem to maintain its signals. It's just that there doesn't seem to be any hard and fast rule (other than what I've posted above) as to which signals are maintained by ADOT.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/asked-answered/2014/09/17/asked-answered-traffic-complaints/15740669/
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on October 21, 2020, 09:23:22 PM
Chandler and Gilbert appear to be responsible for the signals along Loop 101 and Loop 202, but those along the Ahwatukee/Chandler border appear to be maintained by ADOT.

Also, those along US 60 in Apache Junction from Meridian eastward I think are maintained by ADOT.

US 60 Grand Avenue seems to have signals from multiple jurisdictions, sometimes both ADOT and non-ADOT in the same city.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ztonyg on October 22, 2020, 12:19:51 AM
Chandler and Gilbert appear to be responsible for the signals along Loop 101 and Loop 202, but those along the Ahwatukee/Chandler border appear to be maintained by ADOT.

Also, those along US 60 in Apache Junction from Meridian eastward I think are maintained by ADOT.

US 60 Grand Avenue seems to have signals from multiple jurisdictions, sometimes both ADOT and non-ADOT in the same city.

That’s why I think if it’s not Loop 101 or AZ 51 or AZ 143 and it’s in Phoenix then it’s an ADOT signal. Ahwatukee is Phoenix.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: KeithE4Phx on October 22, 2020, 01:31:01 AM
Chandler and Gilbert appear to be responsible for the signals along Loop 101 and Loop 202, but those along the Ahwatukee/Chandler border appear to be maintained by ADOT.

From what I remember of I-10 between Chandler and Ahwatukee (I lived there between 1997 and 2014), the lights at Ray Rd. and Chandler Blvd. were maintained and signed by Chandler, and those at Warner & Elliot Rds. were handled by Tempe.

Quote
Also, those along US 60 in Apache Junction from Meridian eastward I think are maintained by ADOT.

That's in Pinal County.  They may have different rules there.

Quote
US 60 Grand Avenue seems to have signals from multiple jurisdictions, sometimes both ADOT and non-ADOT in the same city.

Being a surface street, I would think that the Grand Ave. traffic signals would be under the jurisdiction of Phoenix, Glendale, Peoria, Maricopa County (for the Sun City area and points NW of the 303), El Mirage, or Surprise, depending on the location.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: howlincoyote2k1 on October 23, 2020, 05:34:39 PM
Chandler and Gilbert appear to be responsible for the signals along Loop 101 and Loop 202, but those along the Ahwatukee/Chandler border appear to be maintained by ADOT.

From what I remember of I-10 between Chandler and Ahwatukee (I lived there between 1997 and 2014), the lights at Ray Rd. and Chandler Blvd. were maintained and signed by Chandler, and those at Warner & Elliot Rds. were handled by Tempe.

Quote
Also, those along US 60 in Apache Junction from Meridian eastward I think are maintained by ADOT.

That's in Pinal County.  They may have different rules there.

Quote
US 60 Grand Avenue seems to have signals from multiple jurisdictions, sometimes both ADOT and non-ADOT in the same city.

Being a surface street, I would think that the Grand Ave. traffic signals would be under the jurisdiction of Phoenix, Glendale, Peoria, Maricopa County (for the Sun City area and points NW of the 303), El Mirage, or Surprise, depending on the location.

It used to be that all of the traffic signals along US 60 were maintained by ADOT. However, when the road was improved in the 00s, the traffic signal management was handed to the cities of Tempe and Mesa. Since AJ was never improved, the signals never changed.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on October 24, 2020, 08:52:17 PM
Chandler and Gilbert appear to be responsible for the signals along Loop 101 and Loop 202, but those along the Ahwatukee/Chandler border appear to be maintained by ADOT.

From what I remember of I-10 between Chandler and Ahwatukee (I lived there between 1997 and 2014), the lights at Ray Rd. and Chandler Blvd. were maintained and signed by Chandler, and those at Warner & Elliot Rds. were handled by Tempe.

Quote
Also, those along US 60 in Apache Junction from Meridian eastward I think are maintained by ADOT.

That's in Pinal County.  They may have different rules there.

Quote
US 60 Grand Avenue seems to have signals from multiple jurisdictions, sometimes both ADOT and non-ADOT in the same city.

Being a surface street, I would think that the Grand Ave. traffic signals would be under the jurisdiction of Phoenix, Glendale, Peoria, Maricopa County (for the Sun City area and points NW of the 303), El Mirage, or Surprise, depending on the location.




It used to be that all of the traffic signals along US 60 were maintained by ADOT. However, when the road was improved in the 00s, the traffic signal management was handed to the cities of Tempe and Mesa. Since AJ was never improved, the signals never changed.



I think in Tempe the 60 and Mill signal is a former ADOT signal.  The rest were replaced by Tempe-standard signals and mast arms.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on October 29, 2020, 06:54:31 PM
The US 60/Mill Ave signals in Tempe (single overhead on a mast arm) are similar in style to the way Tempe generally mounts its older ADOT-style signals. In some of the other valley cities, the municipal traffic signals use typical ADOT design, so there isn't much noticeable difference.

I-17 is using ADOT signals with city of Phoenix street signs at Happy Valley Rd and Pinnacle Peak Rd. If that trend doesn't make it way to other freeway/surface street intersections along I-10, I-17, or Loop 202, then I'm guessing it was just a contractor choice here related to the interchange projects at Happy Valley and Pinnacle Peak.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ztonyg on October 30, 2020, 09:54:25 AM
The US 60/Mill Ave signals in Tempe (single overhead on a mast arm) are similar in style to the way Tempe generally mounts its older ADOT-style signals. In some of the other valley cities, the municipal traffic signals use typical ADOT design, so there isn't much noticeable difference.

I-17 is using ADOT signals with city of Phoenix street signs at Happy Valley Rd and Pinnacle Peak Rd. If that trend doesn't make it way to other freeway/surface street intersections along I-10, I-17, or Loop 202, then I'm guessing it was just a contractor choice here related to the interchange projects at Happy Valley and Pinnacle Peak.

The reason I think that the Pinnacle Peak Rd and Happy Valley Rd signals are ADOT maintained and not City of Phoenix is because the City of Phoenix has recently installed new signals along Loop 101 that all use the typical new Phoenix design (which is nothing like the ADOT signals) and the poles on the new Loop 101 signals are green as opposed to the silver which is typical of ADOT maintained signals.

As far as ADOT signals it looks like the signal on N/B Mill at the offramps/onramps from/to W/B 60 as well as the signal on S/B Mill at the offramps/onramps from/to E/B 60 are ADOT standard (mounted in the way ADOT typically mounts its signals). The other signals are in the "secondary" Tempe standard which can be found along Mill Ave. in downtown Tempe as well as random other spots in the city.

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on January 06, 2021, 04:37:40 PM
Looks like logo signs are soon coming back to the Loop 101 Price Freeway south of US 60.  GCSLS just put out a competitive bid for the Loop 101 and Chandler interchange.  They were removed as part of the widening project, since a new study is required for their new locations after the widening.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on January 11, 2021, 06:08:28 PM
Looks like logo signs are back on the Loop 101 Price Freeway south of US 60, except for the Baseline and Chandler Blvd exits (Guadalupe and Warner never had any). As stated, Chandler Blvd should get them soon (GCSLS is doing a competitive bid for that exit).
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on January 12, 2021, 01:06:17 AM
Not sure if this would be the right place, but the I-17 widening project from Black Canyon City to Sunset Point has seemingly been pushed back at least a year from the previously announced date. Will now start sometime in 2022 and take 3-4 years. I've heard some say that BLM hasn't approved the new ROW yet, so they advanced the Broadway Curve project ahead to take the place in the budget. As someone who drives I-17 up north out of Phoenix pretty regularly, the delay is immensely frustrating. That stretch, especially in summer, is AWFUL. Plus the 3-4 years to build it is just crazy.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Plutonic Panda on January 12, 2021, 01:09:47 PM
If Arizona REALLY wanted to solve the issue they would make I-17 3 lanes each way and a new East to west tunnel connecting Sedona to I-17 directly. One can dream right. The situation on I-17 is bad no doubt and it is annoying the push back and timeline. I am happy to hear about the advanced Broadway Curve schedule.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: sparker on February 03, 2021, 05:11:19 PM
I can live with I-11 meeting I-10 at the current 303 junction in Goodyear, considering Grand Avenue has been built up beyond that point and extending I-11 further in would be impossible. But connecting I-11 to I-10 out in Buckeye or Tonopah defeats the whole purpose of the interstate and the two cities remain without a complete, direct connection.

The problem with the 10/303 junction as an endpoint is that getting there means passing through White Tank Mountain. Which besides being unfriendly terrain for freeway construction is also a non-starter due to Section 4(f).

So you're not getting it to hit I-10 anywhere east of AZ 85 unless you route it all the way down 60.

Sorry for bumping this subject within the thread four months later -- but it seems like the comments regarding a possible I-11 alignment are at cross-purposes here.  First of all, there's no chance in hell that I-11 will plow through the White Tanks, partially due to the provisions of 4(f), but the general impracticality of that; the longstanding Hassayampa option, largely dismissed by those favoring a route more directly serving central PHX, skirts the range to the west.  And it's true (as well as obvious) that that corridor iteration does allow a SE tack once south of the I-10 junction -- which was pretty much the whole point, as that "beeline" through Maricopa and ending up near Casa Grande was the concoction of regional developers, who simply want a reasonably-well-traveled SW bypass of Phoenix along which to place more housing as well as commercial and industrial facilities.  Outside of the reservations, developers tend to be the drivers of land-use policy in the region; fortunately, some land like the White Tanks has been deemed worthy of preservation in some semblance of its original state.  But if not down the Hassayampa, south of Wickenburg there are two alternate choices -- go east to I-17 more or less along AZ 74, or simply head down the US 60/Grand corridor to the 303 loop, where that route could be subsumed south to I-10.  But the issue there is that the land along US 60 is being continually and rapidly developed without any regard for an expanded facility, much less one using new terrain.  Whether that ship has already sailed regarding this option would be a product of ADOT's willingness to carve out a pathway northwest of Loop 303.  But of course, the Hassayampa option could simply "dovetail" into AZ 85 and use that route, appropriately upgraded & extended, down to I-8 and terminate there.  The developers with options on land near Maricopa would have a shitfit, of course, but such a route would save a bundle of money and, although not as direct as a new-terrain diagonal, serve as an effective Phoenix bypass for I-10 through traffic that has the misfortune to hit the city during peak commute times! 

But it remains to be seen if the local land boom continues unabated and developers maintain the upper hand regarding policy decisions.  IMO, either the US 60/Loop 303 or the Hassayampa/AZ 85 options provide the most bang for the buck -- but in any case the White Tanks remain between the options, not directly in their pathway. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on October 19, 2021, 05:42:01 PM
This video came out for plans of the future I-10 Broadway Curve corridor, which is currently under construction.

Not a valid vimeo URLa0f721de70

Also construction staging plans by ADOT are summarized here:

https://azdot.gov/adot-news/adot-issues-%E2%80%98notice-proceed%E2%80%99-construction-interstate-10-broadway-curve-improvement-project
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Zonie on October 21, 2021, 12:26:58 PM
Heh.  They just issued a Notice to Proceed on Monday.

Guess I-10 weekend traffic dumpster fires have just been my imagination up to this point. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on October 21, 2021, 08:20:15 PM
If Arizona REALLY wanted to solve the issue they would make I-17 3 lanes each way and a new East to west tunnel connecting Sedona to I-17 directly. One can dream right. The situation on I-17 is bad no doubt and it is annoying the push back and timeline. I am happy to hear about the advanced Broadway Curve schedule.

As someone who had to put up with Sedona's horrible, horrible traffic, I would recommend rebuilding the Red Rock Canyon Bridge to allow traffic between West Sedona and Oak Creek to bypass downtown and a pedestrian tunnel in front of Tlaquepaque.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on October 31, 2021, 10:04:09 AM
The City of Phoenix will vote on selling 86 Acres of land (https://www.abc15.com/news/business/phoenix-to-consider-selling-land-for-construction-of-planned-state-route-30) at 4815 S. 67th Ave to ADOT for $1.5 million for the construction of the Tres Rios Freeway. The land is currently used, conveniently, as a sand and gravel pit.

The new freeway will span from I-17 to SR 85, to relieve the Papago Freeway.

I imagine all the people who move to Phoenix from California are grateful to see all the highway expansion projects that show they no longer live under a government with open contempt for motorists.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on October 31, 2021, 10:13:17 AM
The City of Phoenix will vote on selling 86 Acres of land (https://www.abc15.com/news/business/phoenix-to-consider-selling-land-for-construction-of-planned-state-route-30) at 4815 S. 67th Ave to ADOT for $1.5 million for the construction of the Tres Rios Freeway. The land is currently used, conveniently, as a sand and gravel pit.

The new freeway will span from I-17 to SR 85, to relieve the Papago Freeway.

I imagine all the people who move to Phoenix from California are grateful to see all the highway expansion projects that show they no longer live under a government with open contempt for motorists.

The double edge sword is that it encouraged urban sprawl.  Towards the end of my 13 year stint in Phoenix it wasn’t uncommon to hear stories about 30-40 mile commutes from the suburbs.  Housing prices have really skyrocketed in the last two decades whereas they used to be really affordable.  Phoenix was great at a 3 Million person metro area when all those freeways were new.  It started to suck at 4 million people and probably has only gotten worse in the intervening decade.  What my time there taught me was that no city stays the same forever, for good or bad.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on October 31, 2021, 10:28:14 AM
The City of Phoenix will vote on selling 86 Acres of land (https://www.abc15.com/news/business/phoenix-to-consider-selling-land-for-construction-of-planned-state-route-30) at 4815 S. 67th Ave to ADOT for $1.5 million for the construction of the Tres Rios Freeway. The land is currently used, conveniently, as a sand and gravel pit.

The new freeway will span from I-17 to SR 85, to relieve the Papago Freeway.

I imagine all the people who move to Phoenix from California are grateful to see all the highway expansion projects that show they no longer live under a government with open contempt for motorists.

The double edge sword is that it encouraged urban sprawl.  Towards the end of my 13 year stint in Phoenix it wasn’t uncommon to hear stories about 30-40 mile commutes from the suburbs.  Housing prices have really skyrocketed in the last two decades whereas they used to be really affordable.  Phoenix was great at a 3 Million person metro area when all those freeways were new.  It started to suck at 4 million people and probably has only gotten worse in the intervening decade.  What my time there taught me was that no city stays the same forever, for good or bad.
In the 2 days I spent in Phoenix, I thought it was awesome. I encountered all of 1 traffic jam, on 101 NB at Shea Boulevard in Scottsdale, which ADOT is planning to widen.

With employment so dispersed in Phoenix, traffic is fairly evenly spread out. And from what I can tell, ADOT is planning very well for a metro area of 7-8 million.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on October 31, 2021, 10:42:27 AM
The City of Phoenix will vote on selling 86 Acres of land (https://www.abc15.com/news/business/phoenix-to-consider-selling-land-for-construction-of-planned-state-route-30) at 4815 S. 67th Ave to ADOT for $1.5 million for the construction of the Tres Rios Freeway. The land is currently used, conveniently, as a sand and gravel pit.

The new freeway will span from I-17 to SR 85, to relieve the Papago Freeway.

I imagine all the people who move to Phoenix from California are grateful to see all the highway expansion projects that show they no longer live under a government with open contempt for motorists.

The double edge sword is that it encouraged urban sprawl.  Towards the end of my 13 year stint in Phoenix it wasn’t uncommon to hear stories about 30-40 mile commutes from the suburbs.  Housing prices have really skyrocketed in the last two decades whereas they used to be really affordable.  Phoenix was great at a 3 Million person metro area when all those freeways were new.  It started to suck at 4 million people and probably has only gotten worse in the intervening decade.  What my time there taught me was that no city stays the same forever, for good or bad.
In the 2 days I spent in Phoenix, I thought it was awesome. I encountered all of 1 traffic jam, on 101 NB at Shea Boulevard in Scottsdale, which ADOT is planning to widen.

With employment so dispersed in Phoenix, traffic is fairly evenly spread out.

The freeway designs are great, I’ll give you that.  The area used to be hugely anti-freeway which is why I-10 took so long to finish through downtown Phoenix. 

It really isn’t that spread out with the job market.  There isn’t much of the way employment in places like Queen Creek or Gilbert (to some extent Buckeye in the West Valley) where the newer affordable developments are going in.  Much of the older parts of the metro area have ballooned home prices which really soured me on the area.

I recall my brother’s house costing him about 150k when he bought it in the late 1990s on Tatum Boulevard and Bell Road.  That same house has a Zillow estimate of $789,000 dollars today.  There was nothing special about that house or all the others like it which have hyper inflated in price.  Even my old house in Scottsdale is showing a pre-recessions bubble burst price of $649,000 dollars.  Basically the Phoenix Area has taken much of the negative aspects about Southern California life.  I find that ironic in way given so many people left Metro Los Angeles to escape what Phoenix has become.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on October 31, 2021, 11:12:48 AM
The City of Phoenix will vote on selling 86 Acres of land (https://www.abc15.com/news/business/phoenix-to-consider-selling-land-for-construction-of-planned-state-route-30) at 4815 S. 67th Ave to ADOT for $1.5 million for the construction of the Tres Rios Freeway. The land is currently used, conveniently, as a sand and gravel pit.

The new freeway will span from I-17 to SR 85, to relieve the Papago Freeway.

I imagine all the people who move to Phoenix from California are grateful to see all the highway expansion projects that show they no longer live under a government with open contempt for motorists.

The double edge sword is that it encouraged urban sprawl.  Towards the end of my 13 year stint in Phoenix it wasn’t uncommon to hear stories about 30-40 mile commutes from the suburbs.  Housing prices have really skyrocketed in the last two decades whereas they used to be really affordable.  Phoenix was great at a 3 Million person metro area when all those freeways were new.  It started to suck at 4 million people and probably has only gotten worse in the intervening decade.  What my time there taught me was that no city stays the same forever, for good or bad.
In the 2 days I spent in Phoenix, I thought it was awesome. I encountered all of 1 traffic jam, on 101 NB at Shea Boulevard in Scottsdale, which ADOT is planning to widen.

With employment so dispersed in Phoenix, traffic is fairly evenly spread out.

The freeway designs are great, I’ll give you that.  The area used to be hugely anti-freeway which is why I-10 took so long to finish through downtown Phoenix. 

It really isn’t that spread out with the job market.  There isn’t much of the way employment in places like Queen Creek or Gilbert (to some extent Buckeye in the West Valley) where the newer affordable developments are going in.  Much of the older parts of the metro area have ballooned home prices which really soured me on the area.

I recall my brother’s house costing him about 150k when he bought it in the late 1990s on Tatum Boulevard and Bell Road.  That same house has a Zillow estimate of $789,000 dollars today.  There was nothing special about that house or all the others like it which have hyper inflated in price.  Even my old house in Scottsdale is showing a pre-recessions bubble burst price of $649,000 dollars.  Basically the Phoenix Area has taken much of the negative aspects about Southern California life.  I find that ironic in way given so many people left Metro Los Angeles to escape what Phoenix has become.

Mortgage rates were much higher back then.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on October 31, 2021, 11:22:36 AM
The City of Phoenix will vote on selling 86 Acres of land (https://www.abc15.com/news/business/phoenix-to-consider-selling-land-for-construction-of-planned-state-route-30) at 4815 S. 67th Ave to ADOT for $1.5 million for the construction of the Tres Rios Freeway. The land is currently used, conveniently, as a sand and gravel pit.

The new freeway will span from I-17 to SR 85, to relieve the Papago Freeway.

I imagine all the people who move to Phoenix from California are grateful to see all the highway expansion projects that show they no longer live under a government with open contempt for motorists.

The double edge sword is that it encouraged urban sprawl.  Towards the end of my 13 year stint in Phoenix it wasn’t uncommon to hear stories about 30-40 mile commutes from the suburbs.  Housing prices have really skyrocketed in the last two decades whereas they used to be really affordable.  Phoenix was great at a 3 Million person metro area when all those freeways were new.  It started to suck at 4 million people and probably has only gotten worse in the intervening decade.  What my time there taught me was that no city stays the same forever, for good or bad.
In the 2 days I spent in Phoenix, I thought it was awesome. I encountered all of 1 traffic jam, on 101 NB at Shea Boulevard in Scottsdale, which ADOT is planning to widen.

With employment so dispersed in Phoenix, traffic is fairly evenly spread out.

The freeway designs are great, I’ll give you that.  The area used to be hugely anti-freeway which is why I-10 took so long to finish through downtown Phoenix. 

It really isn’t that spread out with the job market.  There isn’t much of the way employment in places like Queen Creek or Gilbert (to some extent Buckeye in the West Valley) where the newer affordable developments are going in.  Much of the older parts of the metro area have ballooned home prices which really soured me on the area.

I recall my brother’s house costing him about 150k when he bought it in the late 1990s on Tatum Boulevard and Bell Road.  That same house has a Zillow estimate of $789,000 dollars today.  There was nothing special about that house or all the others like it which have hyper inflated in price.  Even my old house in Scottsdale is showing a pre-recessions bubble burst price of $649,000 dollars.  Basically the Phoenix Area has taken much of the negative aspects about Southern California life.  I find that ironic in way given so many people left Metro Los Angeles to escape what Phoenix has become.

Mortgage rates were much higher back then.

My rate was 4% circa 2007, I believe my brother had a 4.5% rate in 1998.  A 2-3% rate isn’t enough to justify purchase prices 3-4 times higher than they were 20 years ago. 

Like I was saying, Phoenix did actually match the expectations you have for it when less people lived there.  People then found out about Phoenix, moved there in droves and largely priced out entry level home ownership.  That’s not exactly something I would look for in a city that is supposed to be the ideal alternative to Southern California.  I don’t know if there is another City west of the Rockies now that has those same ingredients of robust infrastructure, decent/diverse economic opportunity and affordability. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: brad2971 on October 31, 2021, 12:20:57 PM
The City of Phoenix will vote on selling 86 Acres of land (https://www.abc15.com/news/business/phoenix-to-consider-selling-land-for-construction-of-planned-state-route-30) at 4815 S. 67th Ave to ADOT for $1.5 million for the construction of the Tres Rios Freeway. The land is currently used, conveniently, as a sand and gravel pit.

The new freeway will span from I-17 to SR 85, to relieve the Papago Freeway.

I imagine all the people who move to Phoenix from California are grateful to see all the highway expansion projects that show they no longer live under a government with open contempt for motorists.

The double edge sword is that it encouraged urban sprawl.  Towards the end of my 13 year stint in Phoenix it wasn’t uncommon to hear stories about 30-40 mile commutes from the suburbs.  Housing prices have really skyrocketed in the last two decades whereas they used to be really affordable.  Phoenix was great at a 3 Million person metro area when all those freeways were new.  It started to suck at 4 million people and probably has only gotten worse in the intervening decade.  What my time there taught me was that no city stays the same forever, for good or bad.
In the 2 days I spent in Phoenix, I thought it was awesome. I encountered all of 1 traffic jam, on 101 NB at Shea Boulevard in Scottsdale, which ADOT is planning to widen.

With employment so dispersed in Phoenix, traffic is fairly evenly spread out.

The freeway designs are great, I’ll give you that.  The area used to be hugely anti-freeway which is why I-10 took so long to finish through downtown Phoenix. 

It really isn’t that spread out with the job market.  There isn’t much of the way employment in places like Queen Creek or Gilbert (to some extent Buckeye in the West Valley) where the newer affordable developments are going in.  Much of the older parts of the metro area have ballooned home prices which really soured me on the area.

I recall my brother’s house costing him about 150k when he bought it in the late 1990s on Tatum Boulevard and Bell Road.  That same house has a Zillow estimate of $789,000 dollars today.  There was nothing special about that house or all the others like it which have hyper inflated in price.  Even my old house in Scottsdale is showing a pre-recessions bubble burst price of $649,000 dollars.  Basically the Phoenix Area has taken much of the negative aspects about Southern California life.  I find that ironic in way given so many people left Metro Los Angeles to escape what Phoenix has become.

Mortgage rates were much higher back then.

My rate was 4% circa 2007, I believe my brother had a 4.5% rate in 1998.  A 2-3% rate isn’t enough to justify purchase prices 3-4 times higher than they were 20 years ago. 

Like I was saying, Phoenix did actually match the expectations you have for it when less people lived there.  People then found out about Phoenix, moved there in droves and largely priced out entry level home ownership.  That’s not exactly something I would look for in a city that is supposed to be the ideal alternative to Southern California.  I don’t know if there is another City west of the Rockies now that has those same ingredients of robust infrastructure, decent/diverse economic opportunity and affordability. 

Salt Lake City and the entire Wasatch range, at the moment, meet that list just as much, if not more than, Phoenix does. Then again, it depends upon how much snow SoCal residents want to put up with.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on October 31, 2021, 12:27:08 PM
The City of Phoenix will vote on selling 86 Acres of land (https://www.abc15.com/news/business/phoenix-to-consider-selling-land-for-construction-of-planned-state-route-30) at 4815 S. 67th Ave to ADOT for $1.5 million for the construction of the Tres Rios Freeway. The land is currently used, conveniently, as a sand and gravel pit.

The new freeway will span from I-17 to SR 85, to relieve the Papago Freeway.

I imagine all the people who move to Phoenix from California are grateful to see all the highway expansion projects that show they no longer live under a government with open contempt for motorists.

The double edge sword is that it encouraged urban sprawl.  Towards the end of my 13 year stint in Phoenix it wasn’t uncommon to hear stories about 30-40 mile commutes from the suburbs.  Housing prices have really skyrocketed in the last two decades whereas they used to be really affordable.  Phoenix was great at a 3 Million person metro area when all those freeways were new.  It started to suck at 4 million people and probably has only gotten worse in the intervening decade.  What my time there taught me was that no city stays the same forever, for good or bad.
In the 2 days I spent in Phoenix, I thought it was awesome. I encountered all of 1 traffic jam, on 101 NB at Shea Boulevard in Scottsdale, which ADOT is planning to widen.

With employment so dispersed in Phoenix, traffic is fairly evenly spread out.

The freeway designs are great, I’ll give you that.  The area used to be hugely anti-freeway which is why I-10 took so long to finish through downtown Phoenix. 

It really isn’t that spread out with the job market.  There isn’t much of the way employment in places like Queen Creek or Gilbert (to some extent Buckeye in the West Valley) where the newer affordable developments are going in.  Much of the older parts of the metro area have ballooned home prices which really soured me on the area.

I recall my brother’s house costing him about 150k when he bought it in the late 1990s on Tatum Boulevard and Bell Road.  That same house has a Zillow estimate of $789,000 dollars today.  There was nothing special about that house or all the others like it which have hyper inflated in price.  Even my old house in Scottsdale is showing a pre-recessions bubble burst price of $649,000 dollars.  Basically the Phoenix Area has taken much of the negative aspects about Southern California life.  I find that ironic in way given so many people left Metro Los Angeles to escape what Phoenix has become.

Mortgage rates were much higher back then.

My rate was 4% circa 2007, I believe my brother had a 4.5% rate in 1998.  A 2-3% rate isn’t enough to justify purchase prices 3-4 times higher than they were 20 years ago. 

Like I was saying, Phoenix did actually match the expectations you have for it when less people lived there.  People then found out about Phoenix, moved there in droves and largely priced out entry level home ownership.  That’s not exactly something I would look for in a city that is supposed to be the ideal alternative to Southern California.  I don’t know if there is another City west of the Rockies now that has those same ingredients of robust infrastructure, decent/diverse economic opportunity and affordability. 

Salt Lake City and the entire Wasatch range, at the moment, meet that list just as much, if not more than, Phoenix does. Then again, it depends upon how much snow SoCal residents want to put up with.

I would agree that Salt Lake City hits all the marks far more than say Boise does.  Talk about a city (Boise) that really needs some serious infrastructure improvements.  The traffic level in Boise was horrendous compared to a decade ago when I visited in September.  Considering how much my brother complained about traffic in Boise it prompted my asking he thought it was a good idea to move there from Phoenix?  Apparently Boise is the new big draw for a lot of people leaving California.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: DJStephens on November 01, 2021, 07:24:31 AM
The City of Phoenix will vote on selling 86 Acres of land (https://www.abc15.com/news/business/phoenix-to-consider-selling-land-for-construction-of-planned-state-route-30) at 4815 S. 67th Ave to ADOT for $1.5 million for the construction of the Tres Rios Freeway. The land is currently used, conveniently, as a sand and gravel pit.

The new freeway will span from I-17 to SR 85, to relieve the Papago Freeway.

I imagine all the people who move to Phoenix from California are grateful to see all the highway expansion projects that show they no longer live under a government with open contempt for motorists.

The double edge sword is that it encouraged urban sprawl.  Towards the end of my 13 year stint in Phoenix it wasn’t uncommon to hear stories about 30-40 mile commutes from the suburbs.  Housing prices have really skyrocketed in the last two decades whereas they used to be really affordable.  Phoenix was great at a 3 Million person metro area when all those freeways were new.  It started to suck at 4 million people and probably has only gotten worse in the intervening decade.  What my time there taught me was that no city stays the same forever, for good or bad.
In the 2 days I spent in Phoenix, I thought it was awesome. I encountered all of 1 traffic jam, on 101 NB at Shea Boulevard in Scottsdale, which ADOT is planning to widen.

With employment so dispersed in Phoenix, traffic is fairly evenly spread out.

The freeway designs are great, I’ll give you that.  The area used to be hugely anti-freeway which is why I-10 took so long to finish through downtown Phoenix. 

It really isn’t that spread out with the job market.  There isn’t much of the way employment in places like Queen Creek or Gilbert (to some extent Buckeye in the West Valley) where the newer affordable developments are going in.  Much of the older parts of the metro area have ballooned home prices which really soured me on the area.

I recall my brother’s house costing him about 150k when he bought it in the late 1990s on Tatum Boulevard and Bell Road.  That same house has a Zillow estimate of $789,000 dollars today.  There was nothing special about that house or all the others like it which have hyper inflated in price.  Even my old house in Scottsdale is showing a pre-recessions bubble burst price of $649,000 dollars.  Basically the Phoenix Area has taken much of the negative aspects about Southern California life.  I find that ironic in way given so many people left Metro Los Angeles to escape what Phoenix has become.

Mortgage rates were much higher back then.

My rate was 4% circa 2007, I believe my brother had a 4.5% rate in 1998.  A 2-3% rate isn’t enough to justify purchase prices 3-4 times higher than they were 20 years ago. 

Like I was saying, Phoenix did actually match the expectations you have for it when less people lived there.  People then found out about Phoenix, moved there in droves and largely priced out entry level home ownership.  That’s not exactly something I would look for in a city that is supposed to be the ideal alternative to Southern California.  I don’t know if there is another City west of the Rockies now that has those same ingredients of robust infrastructure, decent/diverse economic opportunity and affordability.

Well there is las Cruces.  But it fails in terms of robust infrastructure and economic opportunity.  There is currently a "boomlet" of housing being built, but no foresight, or planning seems to be in place to deal with the increase in traffic.   That will happen, despite the "green" city council here.  The '99 - '04 US 70 "improvements" will soon show their shortcomings, where they could have been constructed then, with higher standards, with an eye towards future (meaning currently) traffic loads.   
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on November 01, 2021, 08:12:18 AM
The City of Phoenix will vote on selling 86 Acres of land (https://www.abc15.com/news/business/phoenix-to-consider-selling-land-for-construction-of-planned-state-route-30) at 4815 S. 67th Ave to ADOT for $1.5 million for the construction of the Tres Rios Freeway. The land is currently used, conveniently, as a sand and gravel pit.

The new freeway will span from I-17 to SR 85, to relieve the Papago Freeway.

I imagine all the people who move to Phoenix from California are grateful to see all the highway expansion projects that show they no longer live under a government with open contempt for motorists.

The double edge sword is that it encouraged urban sprawl.  Towards the end of my 13 year stint in Phoenix it wasn’t uncommon to hear stories about 30-40 mile commutes from the suburbs.  Housing prices have really skyrocketed in the last two decades whereas they used to be really affordable.  Phoenix was great at a 3 Million person metro area when all those freeways were new.  It started to suck at 4 million people and probably has only gotten worse in the intervening decade.  What my time there taught me was that no city stays the same forever, for good or bad.
In the 2 days I spent in Phoenix, I thought it was awesome. I encountered all of 1 traffic jam, on 101 NB at Shea Boulevard in Scottsdale, which ADOT is planning to widen.

With employment so dispersed in Phoenix, traffic is fairly evenly spread out.

The freeway designs are great, I’ll give you that.  The area used to be hugely anti-freeway which is why I-10 took so long to finish through downtown Phoenix. 

It really isn’t that spread out with the job market.  There isn’t much of the way employment in places like Queen Creek or Gilbert (to some extent Buckeye in the West Valley) where the newer affordable developments are going in.  Much of the older parts of the metro area have ballooned home prices which really soured me on the area.

I recall my brother’s house costing him about 150k when he bought it in the late 1990s on Tatum Boulevard and Bell Road.  That same house has a Zillow estimate of $789,000 dollars today.  There was nothing special about that house or all the others like it which have hyper inflated in price.  Even my old house in Scottsdale is showing a pre-recessions bubble burst price of $649,000 dollars.  Basically the Phoenix Area has taken much of the negative aspects about Southern California life.  I find that ironic in way given so many people left Metro Los Angeles to escape what Phoenix has become.

Mortgage rates were much higher back then.

My rate was 4% circa 2007, I believe my brother had a 4.5% rate in 1998.  A 2-3% rate isn’t enough to justify purchase prices 3-4 times higher than they were 20 years ago. 

Like I was saying, Phoenix did actually match the expectations you have for it when less people lived there.  People then found out about Phoenix, moved there in droves and largely priced out entry level home ownership.  That’s not exactly something I would look for in a city that is supposed to be the ideal alternative to Southern California.  I don’t know if there is another City west of the Rockies now that has those same ingredients of robust infrastructure, decent/diverse economic opportunity and affordability.

Well there is las Cruces.  But it fails in terms of robust infrastructure and economic opportunity.  There is currently a "boomlet" of housing being built, but no foresight, or planning seems to be in place to deal with the increase in traffic.   That will happen, despite the "green" city council here.  The '99 - '04 US 70 "improvements" will soon show their shortcomings, where they could have been constructed then, with higher standards, with an eye towards future (meaning currently) traffic loads.

The freeway segment of US 70 east from I-25 towards Organ is one of the strangest limited access roadways I’ve driven.  I used it frequently while visiting Alamogordo and Ruidoso during work trips.  Having to call the Missile Hotline to see if test were being conducted at White Sands over US 70 was always a hoot.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on November 06, 2021, 08:18:44 AM
So how does Phoenix get away with what appear on Google Maps to be very closely spaced interchanges, particularly on the Superstition Freeway?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: jakeroot on November 06, 2021, 01:46:56 PM
So how does Phoenix get away with what appear on Google Maps to be very closely spaced interchanges, particularly on the Superstition Freeway?

I can't necessarily be sure how well it works, but the Phoenix area in general has a lot of auxiliary lanes between on- and off-ramps. Almost all have ramp meters as well, so flow onto the freeway is managed to not interfere significantly with traffic attempting to use the succeeding off-ramp. There are also some parts of Phoenix freeways that have collector-distributor carriageways (I-17/Black Canyon Fwy).

My main gripe is that the shorter auxiliary lanes are still often exit-only lanes for the next exit. In many of these situations (only those where there is no option lane in addition to an exit-only lane), I feel continuing the lane beyond the off-ramp and then ending the lane at a designated merge point would help cut down on the "stop and merge" behavior that is often witnessed within auxiliary lanes. As there is no clear point at which traffic should merge, traffic needing to enter the mainlines often needs to slow down significantly to merge, hindering the flow of traffic trying to exit the freeway behind them. In similar situations here in Seattle, it's not uncommon to see drivers travel into the gore area to merge if they failed to find an adequate point to merge.

To be fair, from what I know about Phoenix (from here, personal experience, and my family (about half of which live in the Phoenix area)), it seems traffic flows pretty good most of the time, rendering the aforementioned "stop and merge" issue fairly minor.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: KeithE4Phx on November 06, 2021, 02:18:57 PM
So how does Phoenix get away with what appear on Google Maps to be very closely spaced interchanges, particularly on the Superstition Freeway?

Phoenix's arterial streets are exactly one mile apart, and the freeway interchanges reflect that.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: rower155 on November 08, 2021, 01:02:18 PM
So how does Phoenix get away with what appear on Google Maps to be very closely spaced interchanges, particularly on the Superstition Freeway?

Phoenix's arterial streets are exactly one mile apart, and the freeway interchanges reflect that.

One mile spacing can work fine. It is considered the minimum spacing in urban areas, but that is still acceptable. In the early 2000's, including continuous auxiliary lanes between interchanges spaced 2 miles or less apart became the ADOT standard. This consistency has helped with driver expectation.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Bobby5280 on November 10, 2021, 11:57:34 AM
With heavy enough traffic levels "braided" on/off ramps will be necessary to reduce weaving conflicts, even if the exits are spaced at least a mile apart. Superstition Freeway doesn't have many braided ramps at all.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: rower155 on November 12, 2021, 02:58:26 PM
With heavy enough traffic levels "braided" on/off ramps will be necessary to reduce weaving conflicts, even if the exits are spaced at least a mile apart. Superstition Freeway doesn't have many braided ramps at all.

Of the 24 service interchanges on the Superstition, which ones would you propose to braid?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Plutonic Panda on November 12, 2021, 03:01:08 PM
With heavy enough traffic levels "braided" on/off ramps will be necessary to reduce weaving conflicts, even if the exits are spaced at least a mile apart. Superstition Freeway doesn't have many braided ramps at all.

Of the 24 service interchanges on the Superstition, which ones would you propose to braid?
All of them. Would that make it the longest consecutive amount of braided ramps in the world?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: rower155 on November 12, 2021, 03:12:25 PM
With heavy enough traffic levels "braided" on/off ramps will be necessary to reduce weaving conflicts, even if the exits are spaced at least a mile apart. Superstition Freeway doesn't have many braided ramps at all.

Of the 24 service interchanges on the Superstition, which ones would you propose to braid?
All of them. Would that make it the longest consecutive amount of braided ramps in the world?

There's no gain by braiding consecutive service interchanges like these. Lay out the geometry. It still has the same weave, but with a shorter distance to merge. Not to mention the significantly higher cost and R/W required.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: DJStephens on November 12, 2021, 08:28:25 PM
The City of Phoenix will vote on selling 86 Acres of land (https://www.abc15.com/news/business/phoenix-to-consider-selling-land-for-construction-of-planned-state-route-30) at 4815 S. 67th Ave to ADOT for $1.5 million for the construction of the Tres Rios Freeway. The land is currently used, conveniently, as a sand and gravel pit.

The new freeway will span from I-17 to SR 85, to relieve the Papago Freeway.

I imagine all the people who move to Phoenix from California are grateful to see all the highway expansion projects that show they no longer live under a government with open contempt for motorists.

The double edge sword is that it encouraged urban sprawl.  Towards the end of my 13 year stint in Phoenix it wasn’t uncommon to hear stories about 30-40 mile commutes from the suburbs.  Housing prices have really skyrocketed in the last two decades whereas they used to be really affordable.  Phoenix was great at a 3 Million person metro area when all those freeways were new.  It started to suck at 4 million people and probably has only gotten worse in the intervening decade.  What my time there taught me was that no city stays the same forever, for good or bad.
In the 2 days I spent in Phoenix, I thought it was awesome. I encountered all of 1 traffic jam, on 101 NB at Shea Boulevard in Scottsdale, which ADOT is planning to widen.

With employment so dispersed in Phoenix, traffic is fairly evenly spread out.

The freeway designs are great, I’ll give you that.  The area used to be hugely anti-freeway which is why I-10 took so long to finish through downtown Phoenix. 

It really isn’t that spread out with the job market.  There isn’t much of the way employment in places like Queen Creek or Gilbert (to some extent Buckeye in the West Valley) where the newer affordable developments are going in.  Much of the older parts of the metro area have ballooned home prices which really soured me on the area.

I recall my brother’s house costing him about 150k when he bought it in the late 1990s on Tatum Boulevard and Bell Road.  That same house has a Zillow estimate of $789,000 dollars today.  There was nothing special about that house or all the others like it which have hyper inflated in price.  Even my old house in Scottsdale is showing a pre-recessions bubble burst price of $649,000 dollars.  Basically the Phoenix Area has taken much of the negative aspects about Southern California life.  I find that ironic in way given so many people left Metro Los Angeles to escape what Phoenix has become.

Mortgage rates were much higher back then.

My rate was 4% circa 2007, I believe my brother had a 4.5% rate in 1998.  A 2-3% rate isn’t enough to justify purchase prices 3-4 times higher than they were 20 years ago. 

Like I was saying, Phoenix did actually match the expectations you have for it when less people lived there.  People then found out about Phoenix, moved there in droves and largely priced out entry level home ownership.  That’s not exactly something I would look for in a city that is supposed to be the ideal alternative to Southern California.  I don’t know if there is another City west of the Rockies now that has those same ingredients of robust infrastructure, decent/diverse economic opportunity and affordability.

Well there is las Cruces.  But it fails in terms of robust infrastructure and economic opportunity.  There is currently a "boomlet" of housing being built, but no foresight, or planning seems to be in place to deal with the increase in traffic.   That will happen, despite the "green" city council here.  The '99 - '04 US 70 "improvements" will soon show their shortcomings, where they could have been constructed then, with higher standards, with an eye towards future (meaning currently) traffic loads.

The freeway segment of US 70 east from I-25 towards Organ is one of the strangest limited access roadways I’ve driven.  I used it frequently while visiting Alamogordo and Ruidoso during work trips.  Having to call the Missile Hotline to see if test were being conducted at White Sands over US 70 was always a hoot.

Am not going to derail this thread, it is about Phoenix not las Cruces, but the US 70 "expressway" segment, E of I-25 was built on the cheap.  Gary Johnson and Pete Rahn.  Nothing else needs to be said.   But continuing on the topic of Auxiliary lanes, and the Superstition Frwy, yes those N-S arterials in the Chandler / Tempe / Gilbert / Mesa areas are exactly a mile apart.  Probably got that sensibility from Chicago and Detroit.   Some of the US 70 exits in las Cruces are very close - about 3/8 to 1/2 mile apart.  And an auxiliary lane, between them, on one side, but not the other!   
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on November 13, 2021, 04:54:22 PM
As far as braided ramps in the Phoenix area go, most of them seem to be near freeway-to-freeway interchanges. For newer builds, ADOT has used a combination of half interchanges and frontage roads to connect surface streets.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: US 89 on November 17, 2021, 09:10:56 AM
But continuing on the topic of Auxiliary lanes, and the Superstition Frwy, yes those N-S arterials in the Chandler / Tempe / Gilbert / Mesa areas are exactly a mile apart.  Probably got that sensibility from Chicago and Detroit.

Well, Phoenix suburban planners did not copy Chicago and Detroit, but the arterials are spaced a mile apart in all three cities for the same reason: the Public Land Survey System (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Land_Survey_System) used by the federal government to survey and divide up new land since the US became its own country. That system divides land into 36-square-mile townships, which are themselves divided into 36 1-square-mile sections.  So if you build roads along the section lines, you’ll get a square grid of them spaced exactly 1 mile apart.

You can see this in most major US cities first settled after 1800 or so, especially west of the Mississippi and north of the Ohio River. Aside from the 3 cities already named, the section line road grid is pretty obvious in places like Las Vegas, Boise, Albuquerque, Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Milwaukee, Miami, and more... and it’s still there but maybe a little less obvious in places like Indianapolis, Denver, Salt Lake City...
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Rothman on November 17, 2021, 09:34:53 AM
But continuing on the topic of Auxiliary lanes, and the Superstition Frwy, yes those N-S arterials in the Chandler / Tempe / Gilbert / Mesa areas are exactly a mile apart.  Probably got that sensibility from Chicago and Detroit.

Well, Phoenix suburban planners did not copy Chicago and Detroit, but the arterials are spaced a mile apart in all three cities for the same reason: the Public Land Survey System (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Land_Survey_System) used by the federal government to survey and divide up new land since the US became its own country. That system divides land into 36-square-mile townships, which are themselves divided into 36 1-square-mile sections.  So if you build roads along the section lines, you’ll get a square grid of them spaced exactly 1 mile apart.

You can see this in most major US cities first settled after 1800 or so, especially west of the Mississippi and north of the Ohio River. Aside from the 3 cities already named, the section line road grid is pretty obvious in places like Las Vegas, Boise, Albuquerque, Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Milwaukee, Miami, and more... and it’s still there but maybe a little less obvious in places like Indianapolis, Denver, Salt Lake City...
Salt Lake was the "Mormon Grid" imported by Mormon pioneers from Nauvoo, IL (which actually rivaled Chicago in population...albeit briefly).  Latter-day Saints learned the hard way in Kirtland, OH and around Independence, MO what happens when you don't plan for significant numbers of immigrants (including exploitative real estate practices) and therefore were practically forced into planning their communities out (essentially a grid centered on a central square, sometimes and not always intended for a temple).
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: US 89 on November 17, 2021, 10:58:46 PM
But continuing on the topic of Auxiliary lanes, and the Superstition Frwy, yes those N-S arterials in the Chandler / Tempe / Gilbert / Mesa areas are exactly a mile apart.  Probably got that sensibility from Chicago and Detroit.

Well, Phoenix suburban planners did not copy Chicago and Detroit, but the arterials are spaced a mile apart in all three cities for the same reason: the Public Land Survey System (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Land_Survey_System) used by the federal government to survey and divide up new land since the US became its own country. That system divides land into 36-square-mile townships, which are themselves divided into 36 1-square-mile sections.  So if you build roads along the section lines, you’ll get a square grid of them spaced exactly 1 mile apart.

You can see this in most major US cities first settled after 1800 or so, especially west of the Mississippi and north of the Ohio River. Aside from the 3 cities already named, the section line road grid is pretty obvious in places like Las Vegas, Boise, Albuquerque, Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Milwaukee, Miami, and more... and it’s still there but maybe a little less obvious in places like Indianapolis, Denver, Salt Lake City...
Salt Lake was the "Mormon Grid" imported by Mormon pioneers from Nauvoo, IL (which actually rivaled Chicago in population...albeit briefly).  Latter-day Saints learned the hard way in Kirtland, OH and around Independence, MO what happens when you don't plan for significant numbers of immigrants (including exploitative real estate practices) and therefore were practically forced into planning their communities out (essentially a grid centered on a central square, sometimes and not always intended for a temple).

I wasn’t talking downtown SLC. Look in the west and south valley.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: KeithE4Phx on November 17, 2021, 11:19:30 PM
To be fair, from what I know about Phoenix (from here, personal experience, and my family (about half of which live in the Phoenix area)), it seems traffic flows pretty good most of the time, rendering the aforementioned "stop and merge" issue fairly minor.

The biggest problem here is that too many people have absolutely no clue how to merge onto a freeway.  Most of them are snowbirds from the Upper Midwest who aren't used to big-city traffic.  They drive scared, and drive way too slow on the on-ramps to properly merge onto the freeway. 

You'd better be doing at least 65 and use your turn signal if you want to live to get on a Phoenix freeway.  If you can't, then use the streets, Grandpa!
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Zonie on November 18, 2021, 10:41:11 AM
But continuing on the topic of Auxiliary lanes, and the Superstition Frwy, yes those N-S arterials in the Chandler / Tempe / Gilbert / Mesa areas are exactly a mile apart.  Probably got that sensibility from Chicago and Detroit.

Well, Phoenix suburban planners did not copy Chicago and Detroit, but the arterials are spaced a mile apart in all three cities for the same reason: the Public Land Survey System (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Land_Survey_System) used by the federal government to survey and divide up new land since the US became its own country. That system divides land into 36-square-mile townships, which are themselves divided into 36 1-square-mile sections.  So if you build roads along the section lines, you’ll get a square grid of them spaced exactly 1 mile apart.

You can see this in most major US cities first settled after 1800 or so, especially west of the Mississippi and north of the Ohio River. Aside from the 3 cities already named, the section line road grid is pretty obvious in places like Las Vegas, Boise, Albuquerque, Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Milwaukee, Miami, and more... and it’s still there but maybe a little less obvious in places like Indianapolis, Denver, Salt Lake City...

That Thomas Jefferson and the Northwest Ordinance!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-16/the-jefferson-grid-shows-the-american-west-through-one-square-mile-per-frame
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on November 23, 2021, 11:44:25 PM
To be fair, from what I know about Phoenix (from here, personal experience, and my family (about half of which live in the Phoenix area)), it seems traffic flows pretty good most of the time, rendering the aforementioned "stop and merge" issue fairly minor.

The biggest problem here is that too many people have absolutely no clue how to merge onto a freeway.  Most of them are snowbirds from the Upper Midwest who aren't used to big-city traffic.  They drive scared, and drive way too slow on the on-ramps to properly merge onto the freeway. 

You'd better be doing at least 65 and use your turn signal if you want to live to get on a Phoenix freeway.  If you can't, then use the streets, Grandpa!

JFC yes, especially in the last month, this crap is back. People doing 24 mph in the left lane of a major arterial street, going up the on-ramp to get on the freeway at 35, chilling in the right lane of the freeway with people trying to merge in and doing 45mph.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: KeithE4Phx on November 24, 2021, 12:10:21 AM
To be fair, from what I know about Phoenix (from here, personal experience, and my family (about half of which live in the Phoenix area)), it seems traffic flows pretty good most of the time, rendering the aforementioned "stop and merge" issue fairly minor.

The biggest problem here is that too many people have absolutely no clue how to merge onto a freeway.  Most of them are snowbirds from the Upper Midwest who aren't used to big-city traffic.  They drive scared, and drive way too slow on the on-ramps to properly merge onto the freeway. 

You'd better be doing at least 65 and use your turn signal if you want to live to get on a Phoenix freeway.  If you can't, then use the streets, Grandpa!

JFC yes, especially in the last month, this crap is back. People doing 24 mph in the left lane of a major arterial street, going up the on-ramp to get on the freeway at 35, chilling in the right lane of the freeway with people trying to merge in and doing 45mph.

Most of the newer snowbirds these days are from the ultra-rural Dakotas, Montana, Nebraska, and northern Minnesota.  They're not used to the concept of paved roads, let alone freeways.  :-D :)
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ztonyg on December 02, 2021, 12:04:19 AM
ADOT has finally restarted the listing travel times on DMSs along the E/W leg of Loop 101 between I-17 and Pima Rd. They listed travel times prior to the construction project and then while the project was ongoing the travel times stopped.

If only ADOT would again list the travel time to 59th Ave on W/B I-10 and W/B (N/B) I-17 around downtown instead of only listing the travel time to I-17 and Peoria Ave on those signs.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: KeithE4Phx on December 07, 2021, 09:43:52 PM
JFC yes, especially in the last month, this crap is back. People doing 24 mph in the left lane of a major arterial street, going up the on-ramp to get on the freeway at 35, chilling in the right lane of the freeway with people trying to merge in and doing 45mph.

I should also say that, now that the border is open, our Canadian friends are back.  Newsflash:  The speed limit on most of our streets is 45 MILES per hour, not kilometers, eh!  :pan:
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on December 19, 2021, 09:09:24 PM
Here's something exciting; they're planning to convert 6 interchanges on I-17 to volleyball interchanges or "three level diamonds" as they call them. The interchanges are: Indian School Road, Camelback Road, Glendale Avenue, Northern Avenue, Thunderbird Road, and Bell Road.

https://www.azmag.gov/Portals/0/FLCP/FY-2022-FLCP-Publication-12.1.2021.pdf

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on December 20, 2021, 01:02:46 AM
Also of note that I saw right away was 2024 marked for finally expanding I-10 from the 202 Santan/South Mountain down to Riggs, adding both HOV and GP lanes.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on December 20, 2021, 08:45:03 AM
Also of note that I saw right away was 2024 marked for finally expanding I-10 from the 202 Santan/South Mountain down to Riggs, adding both HOV and GP lanes.

*Assuming approval from the Gila River Indian Reservation
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on January 01, 2022, 11:33:25 PM
Also of note that I saw right away was 2024 marked for finally expanding I-10 from the 202 Santan/South Mountain down to Riggs, adding both HOV and GP lanes.

*Assuming approval from the Gila River Indian Reservation

I believe ADOT and the GRIC are on good speaking terms right now and the GRIC gave the green light a couple years back to ADOT starting the Study process for the corridor, so I certainly hope they're taking care of things and the project at this point will happen without further hiccups.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Zonie on January 02, 2022, 05:56:53 PM
There's new leadership within the GRIC that's more amenable to freeways and development - they've seen the success the SRPMIC has had along Loop 101 and the benefits it brings to its membership.

This is why you see significant commercial development to the south of Loop 202 between 32nd Street and 40th Street, plus moving the Phoenix Rising stadium to the community. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: JKRhodes on January 02, 2022, 10:02:38 PM
But continuing on the topic of Auxiliary lanes, and the Superstition Frwy, yes those N-S arterials in the Chandler / Tempe / Gilbert / Mesa areas are exactly a mile apart.  Probably got that sensibility from Chicago and Detroit.

Well, Phoenix suburban planners did not copy Chicago and Detroit, but the arterials are spaced a mile apart in all three cities for the same reason: the Public Land Survey System (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Land_Survey_System) used by the federal government to survey and divide up new land since the US became its own country. That system divides land into 36-square-mile townships, which are themselves divided into 36 1-square-mile sections.  So if you build roads along the section lines, you’ll get a square grid of them spaced exactly 1 mile apart.

You can see this in most major US cities first settled after 1800 or so, especially west of the Mississippi and north of the Ohio River. Aside from the 3 cities already named, the section line road grid is pretty obvious in places like Las Vegas, Boise, Albuquerque, Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Milwaukee, Miami, and more... and it’s still there but maybe a little less obvious in places like Indianapolis, Denver, Salt Lake City...

One interesting side effect of the township/section survey system comes from attempting to lay a two dimensional grid pattern atop a spherical earth. This creates inconsitensies in the section lines where they don't always line up perfectly. As a result, In the east Phoenix valley all the north-south streets jog from east to west at baseline road, with the jog becoming more dramatic the further east you go. away from the Gila River/Salt River meridian, which is the center point of Arizona's land survey. Many of the east-west streets jog south at power road due to this phenomenon as well

Same thing happens in Tucson with the east west streets taking on a slightly more southern alignment east of Wilmot Road.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on January 04, 2022, 07:06:14 PM
The widening of Loop 101 between I-17 and Pima Road is almost finished (https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/AZDOT/bulletins/303be03). Lane striping will be done over this weekend.

Hopefully they'll be moving on to widening 101 between Princess Drive and Shea Boulevard. I encountered a traffic jam there when I was in Phoenix.  :bigass:
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on January 06, 2022, 11:42:18 PM
The widening of Loop 101 between I-17 and Pima Road is almost finished (https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/AZDOT/bulletins/303be03). Lane striping will be done over this weekend.

Hopefully they'll be moving on to widening 101 between Princess Drive and Shea Boulevard. I encountered a traffic jam there when I was in Phoenix.  :bigass:

Only a full year behind schedule...
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kdk on January 10, 2022, 02:56:23 PM
There's new leadership within the GRIC that's more amenable to freeways and development - they've seen the success the SRPMIC has had along Loop 101 and the benefits it brings to its membership.

This is why you see significant commercial development to the south of Loop 202 between 32nd Street and 40th Street, plus moving the Phoenix Rising stadium to the community.

Also, one of the holdups was their requests for additional interchanges along I-10 on the reservation for their own development.  I saw in the ADOT plan there is an additional interchange (called just an access point) planned for about halfway between the 347 interchange and Riggs.  I believe they had requested three additional interchanges, so there may be two more as well further southeast, but this is likely why the widening plans are okay with them.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on January 10, 2022, 08:10:20 PM
What do you know?
Gov. Ducey, in his State of the State address, is calling for the widening of I-10 between Phoenix and Tucson to 6 lanes be accelerated
https://azgovernor.gov/node/5782
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Zonie on January 11, 2022, 10:24:10 AM
There's new leadership within the GRIC that's more amenable to freeways and development - they've seen the success the SRPMIC has had along Loop 101 and the benefits it brings to its membership.

This is why you see significant commercial development to the south of Loop 202 between 32nd Street and 40th Street, plus moving the Phoenix Rising stadium to the community.

Also, one of the holdups was their requests for additional interchanges along I-10 on the reservation for their own development.  I saw in the ADOT plan there is an additional interchange (called just an access point) planned for about halfway between the 374 interchange and Riggs.  I believe they had requested three additional interchanges, so there may be two more as well further southeast, but this is likely why the widening plans are okay with them.

I agree - that one between Riggs and 347 would provide better access to the massive Intel plant expansion in South Chandler.  Just speculating, but one due west of Sacaton (just north of the Gila) would be beneficial as well. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kdk on January 11, 2022, 07:03:14 PM
There's new leadership within the GRIC that's more amenable to freeways and development - they've seen the success the SRPMIC has had along Loop 101 and the benefits it brings to its membership.

This is why you see significant commercial development to the south of Loop 202 between 32nd Street and 40th Street, plus moving the Phoenix Rising stadium to the community.

Also, one of the holdups was their requests for additional interchanges along I-10 on the reservation for their own development.  I saw in the ADOT plan there is an additional interchange (called just an access point) planned for about halfway between the 374 interchange and Riggs.  I believe they had requested three additional interchanges, so there may be two more as well further southeast, but this is likely why the widening plans are okay with them.

I agree - that one between Riggs and 347 would provide better access to the massive Intel plant expansion in South Chandler.  Just speculating, but one due west of Sacaton (just north of the Gila) would be beneficial as well.

I can't find any maps of this, but the new east-west parkway that is getting started in Maricopa, it's said to plan to connect to I-10 north of Casa Grande once it's finished.  that would appear to line up to where the Sacaton exit would go.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Zonie on January 11, 2022, 07:25:17 PM
@kdk

Try this - https://www.pinalcountyaz.gov/PublicWorks/TransportationPlanning/Documents/EWC%20Final%20DCR%20Report.pdf
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on January 11, 2022, 07:26:30 PM
It's official, the 101 widening is complete (https://azdot.gov/adot-news/crews-complete-all-major-work-loop-101-widening-project).

 :clap: :clap: :clap:

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kdk on January 12, 2022, 05:06:26 PM
@kdk

Try this - https://www.pinalcountyaz.gov/PublicWorks/TransportationPlanning/Documents/EWC%20Final%20DCR%20Report.pdf

Thank you!  Good info.
The previous articles I had read they had made this new parkway to sound like an alternative to 347 up to Phoenix and I was still under that impression.  In reality it's more of a better connector to Casa Grande and the Tucson area.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ztonyg on January 12, 2022, 10:43:19 PM
It's official, the 101 widening is complete (https://azdot.gov/adot-news/crews-complete-all-major-work-loop-101-widening-project).

 :clap: :clap: :clap:

There are a few overhead signs that are missing exit tabs and some of the concrete (especially E/B near the AZ 51 interchange) needs some resurfacing but overall I am happy with the project and especially happy it's over (I live around 7th Ave / Greenway and use the 101 to travel to Scottsdale multiple times per week).
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadgeekteen on January 14, 2022, 02:34:51 AM
It's official, the 101 widening is complete (https://azdot.gov/adot-news/crews-complete-all-major-work-loop-101-widening-project).

 :clap: :clap: :clap:
I have a question for you kernals. What is with you and your obsession with Phoenix? You've posted so many unanimously hated Phoenix posts on reddit.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on January 17, 2022, 01:18:57 AM
It's official, the 101 widening is complete (https://azdot.gov/adot-news/crews-complete-all-major-work-loop-101-widening-project).

 :clap: :clap: :clap:
I have a question for you kernals. What is with you and your obsession with Phoenix? You've posted so many unanimously hated Phoenix posts on reddit.

I was curious so I went and checked the Post History and...Oh my...not sure I've ever seen such a torrentially "downvoted" account...
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on January 17, 2022, 08:43:27 AM
It's official, the 101 widening is complete (https://azdot.gov/adot-news/crews-complete-all-major-work-loop-101-widening-project).

 :clap: :clap: :clap:
I have a question for you kernals. What is with you and your obsession with Phoenix? You've posted so many unanimously hated Phoenix posts on reddit.

I was curious so I went and checked the Post History and...Oh my...not sure I've ever seen such a torrentially "downvoted" account...

If I'm torrentially downvoted, how did I get 473,000 Karma?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Zonie on January 17, 2022, 09:37:33 AM
It's official, the 101 widening is complete (https://azdot.gov/adot-news/crews-complete-all-major-work-loop-101-widening-project).

 :clap: :clap: :clap:
I have a question for you kernals. What is with you and your obsession with Phoenix? You've posted so many unanimously hated Phoenix posts on reddit.

I was curious so I went and checked the Post History and...Oh my...not sure I've ever seen such a torrentially "downvoted" account...

If I'm torrentially downvoted, how did I get 473,000 Karma?

Tucson people, I suspect.   :spin:
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Plutonic Panda on January 17, 2022, 01:13:49 PM
It's official, the 101 widening is complete (https://azdot.gov/adot-news/crews-complete-all-major-work-loop-101-widening-project).

 :clap: :clap: :clap:
I have a question for you kernals. What is with you and your obsession with Phoenix? You've posted so many unanimously hated Phoenix posts on reddit.

I was curious so I went and checked the Post History and...Oh my...not sure I've ever seen such a torrentially "downvoted" account...

If I'm torrentially downvoted, how did I get 473,000 Karma?

Tucson people, I suspect.   :spin:
Go to any sub on reddit that follows infrastructure and you're sure to have any post about car/road based infrastructure shown you'll have a small army of posters saying how this freeway should be rail, or America needs to build more rail, or fuck cars. It's typical and the reason I stopped following sub/infrastructureporn. I don't fault Kernals for that. He is farting in the wind promoting or showing highways on that platform. Bunch of nuts over there.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on January 17, 2022, 02:01:39 PM
It's official, the 101 widening is complete (https://azdot.gov/adot-news/crews-complete-all-major-work-loop-101-widening-project).

 :clap: :clap: :clap:
I have a question for you kernals. What is with you and your obsession with Phoenix? You've posted so many unanimously hated Phoenix posts on reddit.

I was curious so I went and checked the Post History and...Oh my...not sure I've ever seen such a torrentially "downvoted" account...

If I'm torrentially downvoted, how did I get 473,000 Karma?

Tucson people, I suspect.   :spin:
Go to any sub on reddit that follows infrastructure and you're sure to have any post about car/road based infrastructure shown you'll have a small army of posters saying how this freeway should be rail, or America needs to build more rail, or fuck cars. It's typical and the reason I stopped following sub/infrastructureporn. I don't fault Kernals for that. He is farting in the wind promoting or showing highways on that platform. Bunch of nuts over there.

Reddit is famous for drawing New Urbanism and NUMTOT types. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Plutonic Panda on January 17, 2022, 02:20:21 PM
It's official, the 101 widening is complete (https://azdot.gov/adot-news/crews-complete-all-major-work-loop-101-widening-project).

 :clap: :clap: :clap:
I have a question for you kernals. What is with you and your obsession with Phoenix? You've posted so many unanimously hated Phoenix posts on reddit.

I was curious so I went and checked the Post History and...Oh my...not sure I've ever seen such a torrentially "downvoted" account...

If I'm torrentially downvoted, how did I get 473,000 Karma?

Tucson people, I suspect.   :spin:
Go to any sub on reddit that follows infrastructure and you're sure to have any post about car/road based infrastructure shown you'll have a small army of posters saying how this freeway should be rail, or America needs to build more rail, or fuck cars. It's typical and the reason I stopped following sub/infrastructureporn. I don't fault Kernals for that. He is farting in the wind promoting or showing highways on that platform. Bunch of nuts over there.

Reddit is famous for drawing New Urbanism and NUMTOT types.
Yeah I’ve figured that out lol. What is NUMTOT?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on January 17, 2022, 02:47:15 PM
It's official, the 101 widening is complete (https://azdot.gov/adot-news/crews-complete-all-major-work-loop-101-widening-project).

 :clap: :clap: :clap:
I have a question for you kernals. What is with you and your obsession with Phoenix? You've posted so many unanimously hated Phoenix posts on reddit.

I was curious so I went and checked the Post History and...Oh my...not sure I've ever seen such a torrentially "downvoted" account...

If I'm torrentially downvoted, how did I get 473,000 Karma?

Tucson people, I suspect.   :spin:
Go to any sub on reddit that follows infrastructure and you're sure to have any post about car/road based infrastructure shown you'll have a small army of posters saying how this freeway should be rail, or America needs to build more rail, or fuck cars. It's typical and the reason I stopped following sub/infrastructureporn. I don't fault Kernals for that. He is farting in the wind promoting or showing highways on that platform. Bunch of nuts over there.

Reddit is famous for drawing New Urbanism and NUMTOT types.
Yeah I’ve figured that out lol. What is NUMTOT?

New Urban Memes for Transit Oriented Teens.  Basically one of the most detestable groups people (emphasis my opinion) on the internet in modern times.  Basically their stance is “f#^% roads and cars.”
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Plutonic Panda on January 17, 2022, 03:20:11 PM
It's official, the 101 widening is complete (https://azdot.gov/adot-news/crews-complete-all-major-work-loop-101-widening-project).

 :clap: :clap: :clap:
I have a question for you kernals. What is with you and your obsession with Phoenix? You've posted so many unanimously hated Phoenix posts on reddit.

I was curious so I went and checked the Post History and...Oh my...not sure I've ever seen such a torrentially "downvoted" account...

If I'm torrentially downvoted, how did I get 473,000 Karma?

Tucson people, I suspect.   :spin:
Go to any sub on reddit that follows infrastructure and you're sure to have any post about car/road based infrastructure shown you'll have a small army of posters saying how this freeway should be rail, or America needs to build more rail, or fuck cars. It's typical and the reason I stopped following sub/infrastructureporn. I don't fault Kernals for that. He is farting in the wind promoting or showing highways on that platform. Bunch of nuts over there.

Reddit is famous for drawing New Urbanism and NUMTOT types.
Yeah I’ve figured that out lol. What is NUMTOT?

New Urban Memes for Transit Oriented Teens.  Basically one of the most detestable groups people (emphasis my opinion) on the internet in modern times.  Basically their stance is “f#^% roads and cars.”
Christ, I shouldn't have even asked. I regret knowing these people exist now.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadgeekteen on January 17, 2022, 03:40:41 PM
It's official, the 101 widening is complete (https://azdot.gov/adot-news/crews-complete-all-major-work-loop-101-widening-project).

 :clap: :clap: :clap:
I have a question for you kernals. What is with you and your obsession with Phoenix? You've posted so many unanimously hated Phoenix posts on reddit.

I was curious so I went and checked the Post History and...Oh my...not sure I've ever seen such a torrentially "downvoted" account...

If I'm torrentially downvoted, how did I get 473,000 Karma?

Tucson people, I suspect.   :spin:
Go to any sub on reddit that follows infrastructure and you're sure to have any post about car/road based infrastructure shown you'll have a small army of posters saying how this freeway should be rail, or America needs to build more rail, or fuck cars. It's typical and the reason I stopped following sub/infrastructureporn. I don't fault Kernals for that. He is farting in the wind promoting or showing highways on that platform. Bunch of nuts over there.
He can get highly upvoted highway posts but he also denies climate change so...
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadgeekteen on January 17, 2022, 03:44:24 PM
It's official, the 101 widening is complete (https://azdot.gov/adot-news/crews-complete-all-major-work-loop-101-widening-project).

 :clap: :clap: :clap:
I have a question for you kernals. What is with you and your obsession with Phoenix? You've posted so many unanimously hated Phoenix posts on reddit.

I was curious so I went and checked the Post History and...Oh my...not sure I've ever seen such a torrentially "downvoted" account...

If I'm torrentially downvoted, how did I get 473,000 Karma?

Tucson people, I suspect.   :spin:
Go to any sub on reddit that follows infrastructure and you're sure to have any post about car/road based infrastructure shown you'll have a small army of posters saying how this freeway should be rail, or America needs to build more rail, or fuck cars. It's typical and the reason I stopped following sub/infrastructureporn. I don't fault Kernals for that. He is farting in the wind promoting or showing highways on that platform. Bunch of nuts over there.

Reddit is famous for drawing New Urbanism and NUMTOT types.
Yeah I’ve figured that out lol. What is NUMTOT?

New Urban Memes for Transit Oriented Teens.  Basically one of the most detestable groups people (emphasis my opinion) on the internet in modern times.  Basically their stance is “f#^% roads and cars.”
I wouldn't discredit new urbanism quite that quickly. They are quite naive and don't really think about what they are suggesting actually working but they do have some good ideas that we can think about.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ztonyg on January 17, 2022, 03:46:01 PM
It's official, the 101 widening is complete (https://azdot.gov/adot-news/crews-complete-all-major-work-loop-101-widening-project).

 :clap: :clap: :clap:
I have a question for you kernals. What is with you and your obsession with Phoenix? You've posted so many unanimously hated Phoenix posts on reddit.

I was curious so I went and checked the Post History and...Oh my...not sure I've ever seen such a torrentially "downvoted" account...

If I'm torrentially downvoted, how did I get 473,000 Karma?

Tucson people, I suspect.   :spin:
Go to any sub on reddit that follows infrastructure and you're sure to have any post about car/road based infrastructure shown you'll have a small army of posters saying how this freeway should be rail, or America needs to build more rail, or fuck cars. It's typical and the reason I stopped following sub/infrastructureporn. I don't fault Kernals for that. He is farting in the wind promoting or showing highways on that platform. Bunch of nuts over there.

Reddit is famous for drawing New Urbanism and NUMTOT types.
Yeah I’ve figured that out lol. What is NUMTOT?

New Urban Memes for Transit Oriented Teens.  Basically one of the most detestable groups people (emphasis my opinion) on the internet in modern times.  Basically their stance is “f#^% roads and cars.”
I wouldn't discredit new urbanism quite that quickly. They are quite naive and don't really think about what they are suggesting actually working but they do have some good ideas that we can think about.

I agree. Some of the ideas actually make some sense but the problem is some of them paint every situation with a broad brush.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on January 17, 2022, 03:56:55 PM
It's official, the 101 widening is complete (https://azdot.gov/adot-news/crews-complete-all-major-work-loop-101-widening-project).

 :clap: :clap: :clap:
I have a question for you kernals. What is with you and your obsession with Phoenix? You've posted so many unanimously hated Phoenix posts on reddit.

I was curious so I went and checked the Post History and...Oh my...not sure I've ever seen such a torrentially "downvoted" account...

If I'm torrentially downvoted, how did I get 473,000 Karma?

Tucson people, I suspect.   :spin:
Go to any sub on reddit that follows infrastructure and you're sure to have any post about car/road based infrastructure shown you'll have a small army of posters saying how this freeway should be rail, or America needs to build more rail, or fuck cars. It's typical and the reason I stopped following sub/infrastructureporn. I don't fault Kernals for that. He is farting in the wind promoting or showing highways on that platform. Bunch of nuts over there.

Reddit is famous for drawing New Urbanism and NUMTOT types.
Yeah I’ve figured that out lol. What is NUMTOT?

New Urban Memes for Transit Oriented Teens.  Basically one of the most detestable groups people (emphasis my opinion) on the internet in modern times.  Basically their stance is “f#^% roads and cars.”
I wouldn't discredit new urbanism quite that quickly. They are quite naive and don't really think about what they are suggesting actually working but they do have some good ideas that we can think about.

I agree. Some of the ideas actually make some sense but the problem is some of them paint every situation with a broad brush.

To be clear, I’m not dismissive of all Urbanist ideas out of hand.  What gets me is the only hostile attitude most Urbanist and NUMTOT groups hold towards anyone who doesn’t fully adhere to their views.  Their entire tact is a one size fits all view on transportation and forcing that view on others who don’t want it.  I’m not a fan of extremism and one size fits all mindsets, which includes transportation. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Plutonic Panda on January 17, 2022, 03:58:12 PM
^^^ Yeah that is my issue as well. I actually quite like some of the new urbanism developments I've seen. I wouldn't mind seeing more of them connected to a transit network. But when they start trying to neglect roads and reduce funding for them that is where I get sour.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Plutonic Panda on January 17, 2022, 03:58:48 PM
It's official, the 101 widening is complete (https://azdot.gov/adot-news/crews-complete-all-major-work-loop-101-widening-project).

 :clap: :clap: :clap:
I have a question for you kernals. What is with you and your obsession with Phoenix? You've posted so many unanimously hated Phoenix posts on reddit.

I was curious so I went and checked the Post History and...Oh my...not sure I've ever seen such a torrentially "downvoted" account...

If I'm torrentially downvoted, how did I get 473,000 Karma?

Tucson people, I suspect.   :spin:
Go to any sub on reddit that follows infrastructure and you're sure to have any post about car/road based infrastructure shown you'll have a small army of posters saying how this freeway should be rail, or America needs to build more rail, or fuck cars. It's typical and the reason I stopped following sub/infrastructureporn. I don't fault Kernals for that. He is farting in the wind promoting or showing highways on that platform. Bunch of nuts over there.
He can get highly upvoted highway posts but he also denies climate change so...
Where did he deny climate change?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on January 17, 2022, 04:04:29 PM
It's official, the 101 widening is complete (https://azdot.gov/adot-news/crews-complete-all-major-work-loop-101-widening-project).

 :clap: :clap: :clap:
I have a question for you kernals. What is with you and your obsession with Phoenix? You've posted so many unanimously hated Phoenix posts on reddit.

I was curious so I went and checked the Post History and...Oh my...not sure I've ever seen such a torrentially "downvoted" account...

If I'm torrentially downvoted, how did I get 473,000 Karma?

Tucson people, I suspect.   :spin:
Go to any sub on reddit that follows infrastructure and you're sure to have any post about car/road based infrastructure shown you'll have a small army of posters saying how this freeway should be rail, or America needs to build more rail, or fuck cars. It's typical and the reason I stopped following sub/infrastructureporn. I don't fault Kernals for that. He is farting in the wind promoting or showing highways on that platform. Bunch of nuts over there.
He can get highly upvoted highway posts but he also denies climate change so...
Where did he deny climate change?

Wasn’t there a whole thing where he advocated global warming?  I know he did that here and he was serious about it.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadgeekteen on January 17, 2022, 04:05:32 PM
It's official, the 101 widening is complete (https://azdot.gov/adot-news/crews-complete-all-major-work-loop-101-widening-project).

 :clap: :clap: :clap:
I have a question for you kernals. What is with you and your obsession with Phoenix? You've posted so many unanimously hated Phoenix posts on reddit.

I was curious so I went and checked the Post History and...Oh my...not sure I've ever seen such a torrentially "downvoted" account...

If I'm torrentially downvoted, how did I get 473,000 Karma?

Tucson people, I suspect.   :spin:
Go to any sub on reddit that follows infrastructure and you're sure to have any post about car/road based infrastructure shown you'll have a small army of posters saying how this freeway should be rail, or America needs to build more rail, or fuck cars. It's typical and the reason I stopped following sub/infrastructureporn. I don't fault Kernals for that. He is farting in the wind promoting or showing highways on that platform. Bunch of nuts over there.
He can get highly upvoted highway posts but he also denies climate change so...
Where did he deny climate change?

Wasn’t there a whole thing where he advocated global warming?  I know he did that here and he was serious about it.
It's in a locked thread on the weather board
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: SectorZ on January 23, 2022, 11:16:55 AM
It's official, the 101 widening is complete (https://azdot.gov/adot-news/crews-complete-all-major-work-loop-101-widening-project).

 :clap: :clap: :clap:
I have a question for you kernals. What is with you and your obsession with Phoenix? You've posted so many unanimously hated Phoenix posts on reddit.

I was curious so I went and checked the Post History and...Oh my...not sure I've ever seen such a torrentially "downvoted" account...

If I'm torrentially downvoted, how did I get 473,000 Karma?

Tucson people, I suspect.   :spin:
Go to any sub on reddit that follows infrastructure and you're sure to have any post about car/road based infrastructure shown you'll have a small army of posters saying how this freeway should be rail, or America needs to build more rail, or fuck cars. It's typical and the reason I stopped following sub/infrastructureporn. I don't fault Kernals for that. He is farting in the wind promoting or showing highways on that platform. Bunch of nuts over there.

Reddit is famous for drawing New Urbanism and NUMTOT types.
Yeah I’ve figured that out lol. What is NUMTOT?

New Urban Memes for Transit Oriented Teens.  Basically one of the most detestable groups people (emphasis my opinion) on the internet in modern times.  Basically their stance is “f#^% roads and cars.”

They also brigade other Facebook groups with their tripe, ruining those in the process.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on January 23, 2022, 02:16:46 PM
It's official, the 101 widening is complete (https://azdot.gov/adot-news/crews-complete-all-major-work-loop-101-widening-project).

 :clap: :clap: :clap:
I have a question for you kernals. What is with you and your obsession with Phoenix? You've posted so many unanimously hated Phoenix posts on reddit.

I was curious so I went and checked the Post History and...Oh my...not sure I've ever seen such a torrentially "downvoted" account...

If I'm torrentially downvoted, how did I get 473,000 Karma?

Tucson people, I suspect.   :spin:
Go to any sub on reddit that follows infrastructure and you're sure to have any post about car/road based infrastructure shown you'll have a small army of posters saying how this freeway should be rail, or America needs to build more rail, or fuck cars. It's typical and the reason I stopped following sub/infrastructureporn. I don't fault Kernals for that. He is farting in the wind promoting or showing highways on that platform. Bunch of nuts over there.

Reddit is famous for drawing New Urbanism and NUMTOT types.
Yeah I’ve figured that out lol. What is NUMTOT?

New Urban Memes for Transit Oriented Teens.  Basically one of the most detestable groups people (emphasis my opinion) on the internet in modern times.  Basically their stance is “f#^% roads and cars.”

They also brigade other Facebook groups with their tripe, ruining those in the process.

Yes, occasionally one tries to cross over to attempt to spread to their particular brand of gospel when we post a highway item they find disagreeable.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Exit58 on January 25, 2022, 10:27:12 AM
There's new leadership within the GRIC that's more amenable to freeways and development - they've seen the success the SRPMIC has had along Loop 101 and the benefits it brings to its membership.

This is why you see significant commercial development to the south of Loop 202 between 32nd Street and 40th Street, plus moving the Phoenix Rising stadium to the community.

Also, one of the holdups was their requests for additional interchanges along I-10 on the reservation for their own development.  I saw in the ADOT plan there is an additional interchange (called just an access point) planned for about halfway between the 374 interchange and Riggs.  I believe they had requested three additional interchanges, so there may be two more as well further southeast, but this is likely why the widening plans are okay with them.

I agree - that one between Riggs and 347 would provide better access to the massive Intel plant expansion in South Chandler.  Just speculating, but one due west of Sacaton (just north of the Gila) would be beneficial as well.

I can't find any maps of this, but the new east-west parkway that is getting started in Maricopa, it's said to plan to connect to I-10 north of Casa Grande once it's finished.  that would appear to line up to where the Sacaton exit would go.

I have family that lives in Maricopa. It is being billed as an I-10/SR 347 Alternative in case 347 gets clogged due to an accident, something that has happened multiple times just in the couple years they have lived there. The new E/W corridor basically follows the current 2-lane route locals take when 347 is closed/backed up. The proposal is a four-lane parkway with a new interchange at I-10. The new exit would be about halfway between 387/187 Pinal Ave and McCartney Rd falling within Casa Grande itself. It’s basically adding off ramps at Val Vista Rd. As it is, Maricopa has grown like a weed. According to the census they overtook Casa Grande in population (becoming #1 in Pinal except for San Tan Valley, but they’re not incorporated like Maricopa is) and they have started building new subdivisions south of Ak-Chin.

ADOT and MAG are doing a scoping study on 347. Skimming through it, seems like the general idea all parties are onboard with (including GRIC) is a 6-lane ”˜Arizona Parkway’, where you go past the intersection and make a u-turn in place of turning left. Oh and a DDI at 347/10 and overpass at Riggs Rd.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on January 26, 2022, 08:20:01 PM
Phoenix has once again put off a vote on selling a 30 acre gravel pit to ADOT for the construction of the Tres Rios Freeway
https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2022/01/25/phoenix-again-consider-selling-land-state-route-30.html
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on February 08, 2022, 08:20:51 PM
Does ADOT have any plans for fixing the interchange between the Superstition and Price Freeways? It seems to be a bit of a bottleneck if Google Traffic is anything to go by.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ztonyg on February 08, 2022, 10:07:12 PM
Does ADOT have any plans for fixing the interchange between the Superstition and Price Freeways? It seems to be a bit of a bottleneck if Google Traffic is anything to go by.

It appears to have originally have been intended to be a 4-level stack but one of the levels was eliminated due to funding and those horrible tight "U-shaped" ramps (for lack of the official term) were built instead.

I'd imagine more traffic flows through this interchange than the Loop 101 / I-17 interchange (which is a full stack). However I've not seen anything regarding fixing this interchange.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on February 08, 2022, 10:10:35 PM
Does ADOT have any plans for fixing the interchange between the Superstition and Price Freeways? It seems to be a bit of a bottleneck if Google Traffic is anything to go by.

It appears to have originally have been intended to be a 4-level stack but one of the levels was eliminated due to funding and those horrible tight "U-shaped" ramps (for lack of the official term) were built instead.

I'd imagine more traffic flows through this interchange than the Loop 101 / I-17 interchange (which is a full stack). However I've not seen anything regarding fixing this interchange.

It seems the congestion occurs on the directional ramps, not the u-shaped ramps.

I think the technical term is stackmill.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: KeithE4Phx on February 08, 2022, 10:56:40 PM
Does ADOT have any plans for fixing the interchange between the Superstition and Price Freeways? It seems to be a bit of a bottleneck if Google Traffic is anything to go by.

It's bad, but I haven't heard of any plans to fix it.

One problem I have is when I drive home to NE Mesa from Tempe or Chandler, I have to take AZ 101 north to AZ 202.  The northbound 101 briefly goes from three lanes to two north of US 60, then I have to shift two lanes to the right to be able to get onto the 202. 

This is similar to what happens on I-10 westbound (actually northbound) at the merge with US 60, to be able to move far enough over to the right to get off on AZ 143 (very dangerous during morning rush hour).  That was my commute to work for many years when I lived in Ahwatukee.  Hopefully the Broadway Curve rebuild will fix that issue.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on February 09, 2022, 12:41:11 AM
Does ADOT have any plans for fixing the interchange between the Superstition and Price Freeways? It seems to be a bit of a bottleneck if Google Traffic is anything to go by.

It's bad, but I haven't heard of any plans to fix it.

One problem I have is when I drive home to NE Mesa from Tempe or Chandler, I have to take AZ 101 north to AZ 202.  The northbound 101 briefly goes from three lanes to two north of US 60, then I have to shift two lanes to the right to be able to get onto the 202. 

This is similar to what happens on I-10 westbound (actually northbound) at the merge with US 60, to be able to move far enough over to the right to get off on AZ 143 (very dangerous during morning rush hour).  That was my commute to work for many years when I lived in Ahwatukee.  Hopefully the Broadway Curve rebuild will fix that issue.
Looks like they are planning something for 101 north of US 60
https://www.ourmomentumplan.com/proposed-investment-plan
That must include a rebuild of the interchange.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kdk on February 11, 2022, 03:24:57 PM
Does ADOT have any plans for fixing the interchange between the Superstition and Price Freeways? It seems to be a bit of a bottleneck if Google Traffic is anything to go by.

It's bad, but I haven't heard of any plans to fix it.

One problem I have is when I drive home to NE Mesa from Tempe or Chandler, I have to take AZ 101 north to AZ 202.  The northbound 101 briefly goes from three lanes to two north of US 60, then I have to shift two lanes to the right to be able to get onto the 202. 

This is similar to what happens on I-10 westbound (actually northbound) at the merge with US 60, to be able to move far enough over to the right to get off on AZ 143 (very dangerous during morning rush hour).  That was my commute to work for many years when I lived in Ahwatukee.  Hopefully the Broadway Curve rebuild will fix that issue.
Looks like they are planning something for 101 north of US 60
https://www.ourmomentumplan.com/proposed-investment-plan
That must include a rebuild of the interchange.

I actually see the SB 101 as more of the issue between the 202 Red Mountain and the 60 interchange.  It's been problematic almost since the 101 was finished in the area.  Three lanes from the EB 202 merge into what becomes 5 lanes of the 101 for about 4 miles, with two local interchanges at University Dr and Broadway, with then the US 60 ramps.  There's a lot of weaving in a short segment here, similar to the current I-10 Broadway curve scenario.  I think a lot of the traffic is the EB 202 going to EB 60 mixing with the SB 101 traffic.  I don't think the design of the 60 ramps even matter much, the only ideal fix would be is if there were some express lanes for EB 202 to EB 60 traffic but I don't know how you could really design that anyway.

It causes backups daily several miles north of the 202 on the 101, and even on weekends there are some backups within 2 miles of the 60 interchange.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on February 11, 2022, 05:11:57 PM
Does ADOT have any plans for fixing the interchange between the Superstition and Price Freeways? It seems to be a bit of a bottleneck if Google Traffic is anything to go by.

It's bad, but I haven't heard of any plans to fix it.

One problem I have is when I drive home to NE Mesa from Tempe or Chandler, I have to take AZ 101 north to AZ 202.  The northbound 101 briefly goes from three lanes to two north of US 60, then I have to shift two lanes to the right to be able to get onto the 202. 

This is similar to what happens on I-10 westbound (actually northbound) at the merge with US 60, to be able to move far enough over to the right to get off on AZ 143 (very dangerous during morning rush hour).  That was my commute to work for many years when I lived in Ahwatukee.  Hopefully the Broadway Curve rebuild will fix that issue.
Looks like they are planning something for 101 north of US 60
https://www.ourmomentumplan.com/proposed-investment-plan
That must include a rebuild of the interchange.

I actually see the SB 101 as more of the issue between the 202 Red Mountain and the 60 interchange.  It's been problematic almost since the 101 was finished in the area.  Three lanes from the EB 202 merge into what becomes 5 lanes of the 101 for about 4 miles, with two local interchanges at University Dr and Broadway, with then the US 60 ramps.  There's a lot of weaving in a short segment here, similar to the current I-10 Broadway curve scenario.  I think a lot of the traffic is the EB 202 going to EB 60 mixing with the SB 101 traffic.  I don't think the design of the 60 ramps even matter much, the only ideal fix would be is if there were some express lanes for EB 202 to EB 60 traffic but I don't know how you could really design that anyway.

It causes backups daily several miles north of the 202 on the 101, and even on weekends there are some backups within 2 miles of the 60 interchange.
With ADOT obsessively stamping out every bottleneck in the Phoenix area, I'm sure they'll give that some attention at some point.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on February 15, 2022, 01:01:16 PM
On February 24, ADOT will be holding a public meeting to discuss the widening of Loop 101 west of I-17 https://www.einnews.com/pr_news/563181344/feb-24-virtual-public-meeting-to-focus-on-future-loop-101-widening-project-in-northwest-valley

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on February 16, 2022, 12:56:08 AM
They really need to widen the 101 bridge over Skunk Creek so they can add merging lanes between Bell and Thunderbird. I drive it every day and it's an awful choke point.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Bigmikelakers on April 04, 2022, 07:45:38 PM
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the opening of AZ 24 going out to Williams Field Rd near Bell Bank Park on April 1st. I drove it over the weekend and noticed 45 mph as the speed limit through that new stretch from Williams Field to the Ellsworth overpass heading west. I assume they made it that low since there will still be some signaled intersections on the final stretch out the Ironwood. I would think 50 would be a more appropriate speed limit though since Ellsworth has a 50 mph speed limit south of AZ 24 to the Queen Creek town limits.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: 74/171FAN on April 04, 2022, 08:04:45 PM
Here is an article about the opening. (https://www.abc15.com/news/region-southeast-valley/mesa/new-stretch-of-sr-24-opens-in-mesa-full-project-expected-to-be-completed-in-summer-2022)
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on April 08, 2022, 12:00:35 PM
So I saw a couple weeks ago where NHRA announced that Wild Horse Pass Motorsports Park is closing after next year, and in the release it says "A new overpass/roadway for the I-10 extension will use the space now occupied by the track." Anyone have any clue what this is referring to? The track itself is significantly to the west of the I-10 right of way, so I don't quite understand the wording they are using, blaming the I-10 expansion for the track closing.

https://www.wildhorsepass.com/nhra-expansion-plans-at-wild-horse-pass/ (https://www.wildhorsepass.com/nhra-expansion-plans-at-wild-horse-pass/)
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: rower155 on April 08, 2022, 12:28:18 PM
Good question. It's not very clear. 
The proposed I-10 widening project through this area is here: http://i10wildhorsepasscorridor.com
The reconstructed interchanges don't appear to have an impact on the track.  It's possible that if the outside widening option is chosen, then it may have an impact.  It shows about 15 feet additional strip easement needed along the mainline.  Even though that doesn't directly occupy the track, maybe the track becomes too close to the new roadway to operate safely. There's a contact email listed there. I imagine someone would be able to answer that question.

So I saw a couple weeks ago where NHRA announced that Wild Horse Pass Motorsports Park is closing after next year, and in the release it says "A new overpass/roadway for the I-10 extension will use the space now occupied by the track." Anyone have any clue what this is referring to? The track itself is significantly to the west of the I-10 right of way, so I don't quite understand the wording they are using, blaming the I-10 expansion for the track closing.

https://www.wildhorsepass.com/nhra-expansion-plans-at-wild-horse-pass/ (https://www.wildhorsepass.com/nhra-expansion-plans-at-wild-horse-pass/)
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Zonie on April 08, 2022, 03:42:12 PM
The tribe is redeveloping the land for other, non-racing entertainment. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on May 02, 2022, 07:49:12 PM
The Arizona State Legislature has authorized $400 million (https://yourvalley.net/stories/i-10-widening-approved-by-state-house,300698) to widen I-10 to 6 lanes from Casa Grande to Chandler. They anticipate the project will cost $1 billion and ADOT has already set aside $260 million leaving $300 million to be covered by the Feds.

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Plutonic Panda on May 02, 2022, 08:20:34 PM
So this is the final segment then to be completed?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 02, 2022, 08:23:21 PM
So this is the final segment then to be completed?

Between Phoenix and Tucson yes.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Plutonic Panda on May 02, 2022, 08:25:46 PM
So this is the final segment then to be completed?

Between Phoenix and Tucson yes.
Good deal. It is very much needed. Now if they could just find a way to upgrade 347. Not sure if a full freeway is warranted but a higher speed design and a bypass around Maricopa would be nice.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 02, 2022, 08:28:16 PM
So this is the final segment then to be completed?

Between Phoenix and Tucson yes.
Good deal. It is very much needed. Now if they could just find a way to upgrade 347. Not sure if a full freeway is warranted but a higher speed design and a bypass around Maricopa would be nice.

Having worked out there I’m still trying to figure what the appeal is over the likes of Casa Grande.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kdk on May 02, 2022, 08:41:32 PM
So this is the final segment then to be completed?

Between Phoenix and Tucson yes.
Good deal. It is very much needed. Now if they could just find a way to upgrade 347. Not sure if a full freeway is warranted but a higher speed design and a bypass around Maricopa would be nice.

I can't find an article to cite, but I had read recently on some Maricopa Facebook feed that there are discussions about building an overpass at Riggs, along with the redesign of 347/I-10 (which I imagine would come along with the I-10 widening).  I don't know that there's any talk about bypassing Maricopa other than the proposed e/w connection between I-10 and 347 just south of Maricopa.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: pderocco on May 04, 2022, 12:30:41 AM
Having worked out there I’m still trying to figure what the appeal is over the likes of Casa Grande.

It would be a good place for a penitentiary. (Think about it.)
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 04, 2022, 12:50:06 AM
Having worked out there I’m still trying to figure what the appeal is over the likes of Casa Grande.

It would be a good place for a penitentiary. (Think about it.)

55,000 plus residents aren’t working for correctional facilities.  Most people in Maricopa have a commute that heads up AZ 347 towards I-10.  Essentially it is a sprawl community without immediate freeway access.  Casa Grande at least has direct connection to I-10.

But, now we are getting into reasons I left Phoenix in the first place.  It was great at 3,000,000 in the metro area, not so much at 4,000,000 plus and lapping into places like Maricopa.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Plutonic Panda on May 04, 2022, 01:49:10 AM
So this is the final segment then to be completed?

Between Phoenix and Tucson yes.
Good deal. It is very much needed. Now if they could just find a way to upgrade 347. Not sure if a full freeway is warranted but a higher speed design and a bypass around Maricopa would be nice.

Having worked out there I’m still trying to figure what the appeal is over the likes of Casa Grande.
All I can tell is you is the traffic that follows and my weird nature to travel so much and get bored with the same routes so when I’m doing a Sedona/Phoenix trip and I get bored of I-10 I detour to I-8. That process takes me through a route many others take to get wherever they’re going. Now come on man! I like open roads, pretty women, and fast cars.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 04, 2022, 08:04:03 AM
So this is the final segment then to be completed?

Between Phoenix and Tucson yes.
Good deal. It is very much needed. Now if they could just find a way to upgrade 347. Not sure if a full freeway is warranted but a higher speed design and a bypass around Maricopa would be nice.

Having worked out there I’m still trying to figure what the appeal is over the likes of Casa Grande.
All I can tell is you is the traffic that follows and my weird nature to travel so much and get bored with the same routes so when I’m doing a Sedona/Phoenix trip and I get bored of I-10 I detour to I-8. That process takes me through a route many others take to get wherever they’re going. Now come on man! I like open roads, pretty women, and fast cars.

I would exactly classify AZ 347 as “exciting or interesting.”   I used to use MC 238/AZ 238 and AZ 347 sometimes to get back to the East Valley when I was returning from work trips in Yuma or San Diego to bypass downtown Phoenix. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Plutonic Panda on May 06, 2022, 12:57:25 PM
According to this article they will also extend the HOV lane making it 8 lanes instead of 6? Is that right?

Quote
In addition to the third lane over the 26-mile section and extending an existing HOV lane by several miles, the project will improve several bridges and interchanges, replacing an existing bridge over the Gila River, improve a frontage road and make other safety improvements.

The project's total cost is estimated at $990 million, according to the Arizona Department of Transportation. Prior to Wednesday's $400 million general fund appropriation, $290 million in state, federal and Maricopa County cash had already been set aside for the project. ADOT will apply for an additional $300 million grant from federal infrastructure funds approved by Democratic President Joe Biden last year.

Construction is expected to begin early next year and be complete in 2026. Ducey called for the new spending in his January State of the State address.

https://fronterasdesk.org/content/1777379/gov-ducey-signs-legislation-providing-funds-widen-section-i-10
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: stevashe on May 06, 2022, 01:35:42 PM
According to this article they will also extend the HOV lane making it 8 lanes instead of 6? Is that right?

Quote
In addition to the third lane over the 26-mile section and extending an existing HOV lane by several miles, the project will improve several bridges and interchanges, replacing an existing bridge over the Gila River, improve a frontage road and make other safety improvements.

The project's total cost is estimated at $990 million, according to the Arizona Department of Transportation. Prior to Wednesday's $400 million general fund appropriation, $290 million in state, federal and Maricopa County cash had already been set aside for the project. ADOT will apply for an additional $300 million grant from federal infrastructure funds approved by Democratic President Joe Biden last year.

Construction is expected to begin early next year and be complete in 2026. Ducey called for the new spending in his January State of the State address.

https://fronterasdesk.org/content/1777379/gov-ducey-signs-legislation-providing-funds-widen-section-i-10


It's partly right. The HOV lane will not be extended all the way to Casa Grande, only extended part of the way. According to the article in the link below, it will be extended from its current end at Loop 202 to Riggs Rd, a distance of about 6.5 miles.

Quote
It's the only remaining section of I-10 between Phoenix and Tucson that has only two lanes in each direction. This new project will widen the highway to three lanes and extend the HOV lane from Chandler down to Riggs Road in order to decrease congestion.

https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/i-10-expansion-project-chandler-casa-grande-reduce-congestion
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kdk on May 19, 2022, 06:35:11 PM
I saw this about how the "rubberized asphalt" craze on the Phoenix area freeways of the early 2000's hasn't aged well.

https://www.12news.com/article/news/local/valley/pavement-supposed-to-make-our-roads-quieter-now-its-breaking-down-whats-next/75-8d732a9b-354d-49d2-b14b-6f976b58c3a8

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Plutonic Panda on May 19, 2022, 06:50:34 PM
*Cough* concrete *cough*
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on May 19, 2022, 07:33:50 PM
I saw this about how the "rubberized asphalt" craze on the Phoenix area freeways of the early 2000's hasn't aged well.

https://www.12news.com/article/news/local/valley/pavement-supposed-to-make-our-roads-quieter-now-its-breaking-down-whats-next/75-8d732a9b-354d-49d2-b14b-6f976b58c3a8

What an uninformative article. It doesn't say why they can't just replace the rubberized asphalt. Also, Arizona has been using rubberized asphalt since the 1960s and it has been proven to be more durable.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 19, 2022, 07:47:28 PM
I saw this about how the "rubberized asphalt" craze on the Phoenix area freeways of the early 2000's hasn't aged well.

https://www.12news.com/article/news/local/valley/pavement-supposed-to-make-our-roads-quieter-now-its-breaking-down-whats-next/75-8d732a9b-354d-49d2-b14b-6f976b58c3a8

What an uninformative article. It doesn't say why they can't just replace the rubberized asphalt. Also, Arizona has been using rubberized asphalt since the 1960s and it has been proven to be more durable.

Sure wasn't all that durable during the 2010-2013 era.  The asphalt marbles on Loop 101 were especially fun when they spraying all over my front bumper in chunks.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: andy3175 on May 20, 2022, 09:43:11 AM
The article states:

Quote
The state now must weigh putting down another layer of rubberized asphalt against going with a new technique.

Recently, the state has tested out the "diamond grind" technique on our roadways. Diamond grind uses closely spaced diamond blades to remove a thin layer of the roadway. You can see the "diamond grind" in action on Loop 101 North just east of the I-17.

According to Bullen, diamond grind would last longer and would cost more than a billion dollars less than using rubberized asphalt. However, it is a new technique that is still being looked at.

“This has been our life for the past two years,”  Bullen said.

Whether the state uses rubberized asphalt or diamond grind, the total cost is estimated at more than a billion dollars over the next 30 years to keep our roads maintained.

Is the diamond grinding technique all that new? I've heard of it used in San Diego since the late 1990s. Maybe it's not been used in Phoenix previously?

Are there any studies about noise reduction as a result of diamond grinding? In my experience, concrete usually is louder than asphalt, but I am not sure if diamond grinding causes a noise reduction.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: DRMan on May 20, 2022, 01:37:33 PM
There is a stretch of diamond grind on I-10 in Tucson. There doesn't seem to be much difference in the noise level as opposed to concrete. It isn't pretty to look at, but it is a fairly smooth ride.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Plutonic Panda on May 24, 2022, 11:38:32 PM
The Arizona State Legislature has authorized $400 million (https://yourvalley.net/stories/i-10-widening-approved-by-state-house,300698) to widen I-10 to 6 lanes from Casa Grande to Chandler. They anticipate the project will cost $1 billion and ADOT has already set aside $260 million leaving $300 million to be covered by the Feds.
Article here about Arizona applying for the remaining $300 million:

https://www.inmaricopa.com/adot-300-million-infrastructure-grant-interstate-10-expansion/
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: DJStephens on May 25, 2022, 07:54:17 PM
There is a stretch of diamond grind on I-10 in Tucson. There doesn't seem to be much difference in the noise level as opposed to concrete. It isn't pretty to look at, but it is a fairly smooth ride.

Am guessing that stretch is in the west side of Tucson, where the friction course had been milled off.  Common sense, and 110-115 F degree temperatures in the summer months, would point towards diamond milling the underlying concrete pavements.   
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: stevashe on May 26, 2022, 02:01:22 PM
The article states:

Quote
The state now must weigh putting down another layer of rubberized asphalt against going with a new technique.

Recently, the state has tested out the "diamond grind" technique on our roadways. Diamond grind uses closely spaced diamond blades to remove a thin layer of the roadway. You can see the "diamond grind" in action on Loop 101 North just east of the I-17.

According to Bullen, diamond grind would last longer and would cost more than a billion dollars less than using rubberized asphalt. However, it is a new technique that is still being looked at.

“This has been our life for the past two years,”  Bullen said.

Whether the state uses rubberized asphalt or diamond grind, the total cost is estimated at more than a billion dollars over the next 30 years to keep our roads maintained.

Is the diamond grinding technique all that new? I've heard of it used in San Diego since the late 1990s. Maybe it's not been used in Phoenix previously?

Are there any studies about noise reduction as a result of diamond grinding? In my experience, concrete usually is louder than asphalt, but I am not sure if diamond grinding causes a noise reduction.

I don't know how much quieter it is off the freeway, but it's definitely a LOT quieter while inside a car driving on it! WSDOT recently did diamond grinding on I-90 over Snoqualmie Pass and the difference is night and day. Was especially noticeable when only half the lanes had been ground. Went from sounding like a jet engine to a normal amount of road noise, maybe comparable to a two to three year old asphalt road.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: DJStephens on May 28, 2022, 10:32:44 AM
According to this article they will also extend the HOV lane making it 8 lanes instead of 6? Is that right?

Quote
In addition to the third lane over the 26-mile section and extending an existing HOV lane by several miles, the project will improve several bridges and interchanges, replacing an existing bridge over the Gila River, improve a frontage road and make other safety improvements.

The project's total cost is estimated at $990 million, according to the Arizona Department of Transportation. Prior to Wednesday's $400 million general fund appropriation, $290 million in state, federal and Maricopa County cash had already been set aside for the project. ADOT will apply for an additional $300 million grant from federal infrastructure funds approved by Democratic President Joe Biden last year.

Construction is expected to begin early next year and be complete in 2026. Ducey called for the new spending in his January State of the State address.

https://fronterasdesk.org/content/1777379/gov-ducey-signs-legislation-providing-funds-widen-section-i-10

A large portion of the expenditure will be to replace the twin pre '67 bridges over the dry Gila River wash.  They do not have shoulders.   The widen to the outside methodology should be pursued, both for aesthetics, safety, and to be consistent with previous widening that has already taken place W of Casa Grande, and to the eastern border of Gila Reservation.   The widen to the outside west of Casa Grande exhibits mainline shifting inwards at bridge over-crossings, which anticipates future bridge replacements with modern two spans with greater horizontal clearance, in the future.   
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on June 02, 2022, 11:31:32 AM
Public meeting scheduled for June 8 on the widening of the SanTan Freeway from Loop 101 to Val Vista

https://www.einnews.com/pr_news/574951480/virtual-meeting-for-future-santan-freeway-project-set-on-june-8
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: The Ghostbuster on June 21, 2022, 05:54:02 PM
Has the AZ 24 freeway extension to Ironwood Rd. been completed yet? It is marked on Google Maps (to some degree) but the terrain only shows construction going just beyond Williams Field Rd.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on June 21, 2022, 06:50:50 PM
Has the AZ 24 freeway extension to Ironwood Rd. been completed yet? It is marked on Google Maps (to some degree) but the terrain only shows construction going just beyond Williams Field Rd.

The interim AZ 24 is supposed to be open by the summer. This was the press release at the time the segment to Williams Field Rd opened:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/ktar.com/story/4980262/adot-to-open-segment-of-state-route-24-project-in-mesa-on-friday/amp/
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kwellada on June 22, 2022, 11:42:09 AM
Has the AZ 24 freeway extension to Ironwood Rd. been completed yet? It is marked on Google Maps (to some degree) but the terrain only shows construction going just beyond Williams Field Rd.

I drove by there last Sunday and the connection to Ironwood is still in progress.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on July 07, 2022, 11:02:31 PM
The City of Maricopa has broken ground on the first "Arizona Parkway (https://www.maricopa-az.gov/Home/Components/News/News/2927/133)" in the state, the Sonoran Desert Parkway.
(https://i.imgur.com/40EEtyZ.jpg)

The road will have no driveway access and it will incorporate median u-turns to eliminate left turns. It's a dream come true for me.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on July 25, 2022, 08:39:05 AM
A moment of appreciation for the South Mountain Freeway. In terms of aesthetics, it's arguably up there with the Merritt and Arroyo Seco, but without being terrifying to drive on.

(https://i.imgur.com/3uikY7y.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/p3y0Dng.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/jPyUwRI.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/6qd37Wd.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/CoKKA2M.jpg)

ADOT consulted with the Frank Lloyd Wright foundation for the artwork.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on July 25, 2022, 10:30:05 AM
South Mountain Freeway is pretty for a modern design, but it ain’t the Arroyo Seco Parkway.  There is way too much bland modern design standards and aesthetics in the structures for anything to compete with older designs. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: DRMan on July 25, 2022, 03:15:34 PM
South Mountain Freeway is pretty for a modern design, but it ain’t the Arroyo Seco Parkway.  There is way too much bland modern design standards and aesthetics in the structures for anything to compete with older designs. 

That, and the miles of sound walls. It does look nice from the air though.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: KeithE4Phx on July 25, 2022, 06:28:52 PM
South Mountain Freeway is pretty for a modern design, but it ain’t the Arroyo Seco Parkway.  There is way too much bland modern design standards and aesthetics in the structures for anything to compete with older designs. 

That, and the miles of sound walls. It does look nice from the air though.

Those were mandatory to keep the Foothills NIMBYs happy.  The freeway would never have been built without them.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: MisterRoadgeek on July 25, 2022, 08:53:18 PM
I just really love Arizona Freeways designs that just showcase beautiful artwork morals that ADOT does, I will always love ADOT for that. That extra dollars into making a freeway look very beautiful with artwork.

(https://i.imgur.com/cXGB7QZ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/j1NmvgT.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/5r3UDQs.jpg)

Not my pictures but showcases the beautiful freeway art.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: MisterRoadgeek on July 25, 2022, 08:58:16 PM
But do you guys know who designs these masterpieces?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on July 25, 2022, 09:06:38 PM
But do you guys know who designs these masterpieces?

https://azdot.gov/adot-blog/sowing-seeds-beautiful-highways
https://azdot.gov/adot-blog/adot-freeway-landscape-designer-wins-lifetime-achievement-award

It's a team effort
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on July 25, 2022, 09:26:44 PM
FWIW pre-beautification AZ 51 was a magnet for vandalism just as many freeways of it’s vintage tend to be.  Unattractive designs tend to breed/encourage things like vandalism and stuff like dumping of trash.  For the most part I think one can draw some conclusions that utilizing an appealing design aesthetic saves on the back in mitigation of vandalism costs.  If something looks cared for and maintained, it tends to deter things like vandalism.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Plutonic Panda on July 25, 2022, 10:28:48 PM
I’ve noticed OkDOT has started to incorporate more art into its freeway projects but nowhere near the level that ADOT has. ODOT also does the copy and paste method on every new design I wish they’d change it up a bit.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on July 28, 2022, 09:56:03 AM
https://ktar.com/story/5174611/first-phase-completed-of-expansive-i-10-broadway-curve-improvement-project/

Phase I of the Broadway Curve widening is finished
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: jdbx on July 28, 2022, 02:44:50 PM
https://ktar.com/story/5174611/first-phase-completed-of-expansive-i-10-broadway-curve-improvement-project/

Phase I of the Broadway Curve widening is finished


It's impressive how quickly projects are completed in Arizona.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on July 30, 2022, 08:41:46 AM
Can we please appreciate this? Here's what traffic looks like at 5:00 PM on a Wednesday in Phoenix and 4 other cities with comparable population.

(https://i.imgur.com/YzyuJCD.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/p96d84S.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/QbO1UXM.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/exlcF8Y.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/TroRXKF.png)

One would think that a city of 5 million that managed to slay the traffic jam dragon would be considered a miracle. But because they did it the politically incorrect way, by building ever wider freeways, they are shunned and ridiculed like a gay man in a small town in Arkansas.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Rothman on July 30, 2022, 08:43:33 AM
Can we please appreciate this? Here's what traffic looks like at 5:00 PM on a Wednesday in Phoenix and 4 other cities with comparable population.

(https://i.imgur.com/YzyuJCD.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/p96d84S.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/QbO1UXM.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/exlcF8Y.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/TroRXKF.png)

One would think that a city of 5 million that managed to slay the traffic jam dragon would be considered a miracle. But because they did it the politically incorrect way, by building ever wider freeways, they are shunned and ridiculed like a gay man in a small town in Arkansas.
Scale matters.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on July 30, 2022, 08:49:27 AM
For reference on city size:

Phoenix - 519.28 square miles
Seattle - 142.07 square miles
Washington DC - 68.34 square miles
Boston - 89.61 square miles
Atlanta - 136.61 square miles

This is not exactly the apples to apples comparison Kernals would have us believe. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on July 30, 2022, 09:24:51 AM
For reference on city size:

Phoenix - 519.28 square miles
Seattle - 142.07 square miles
Washington DC - 68.34 square miles
Boston - 89.61 square miles
Atlanta - 136.61 square miles

This is not exactly the apples to apples comparison Kernals would have us believe.
Are you just looking at city proper or the whole metro area?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on July 30, 2022, 09:29:27 AM
For reference on city size:

Phoenix - 519.28 square miles
Seattle - 142.07 square miles
Washington DC - 68.34 square miles
Boston - 89.61 square miles
Atlanta - 136.61 square miles

This is not exactly the apples to apples comparison Kernals would have us believe.
Are you just looking at city proper or the whole metro area?

Suffice to say the Phoenix area is going to blow all of the others out of the water just the same.   

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on July 30, 2022, 09:31:04 AM
For reference on city size:

Phoenix - 519.28 square miles
Seattle - 142.07 square miles
Washington DC - 68.34 square miles
Boston - 89.61 square miles
Atlanta - 136.61 square miles

This is not exactly the apples to apples comparison Kernals would have us believe.
Are you just looking at city proper or the whole metro area?

Suffice to say the Phoenix area is going to blow all of the others out of the water just the same.
Atlanta is definitely less dense than Phoenix.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on July 30, 2022, 09:40:45 AM
The Atlanta Metro Area is 8,376 square miles, Phoenix is 14,598 square miles. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on July 30, 2022, 09:50:42 AM
The Atlanta Metro Area is 8,376 square miles, Phoenix is 14,598 square miles.

Look at these photos, which one has more vacant land?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on July 30, 2022, 09:56:24 AM
The Atlanta Metro Area is 8,376 square miles, Phoenix is 14,598 square miles.

Look at these photos, which one has more vacant land?

Have a look at the vacant land parcels owned by Surprise, Phoenix, Peoria and Goodyear.  Have a look at your average yard size in Scottsdale, northern Phoenix, Carefree or Cave Creek.

Either way, we get that you think Phoenix is the greatest since sliced bread already.  No need to make comparisons to other cites that don’t really align with the narrative you are trying to create. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on July 30, 2022, 12:15:12 PM
The Atlanta Metro Area is 8,376 square miles, Phoenix is 14,598 square miles.

Look at these photos, which one has more vacant land?

Have a look at the vacant land parcels owned by Surprise, Phoenix, Peoria and Goodyear.  Have a look at your average yard size in Scottsdale, northern Phoenix, Carefree or Cave Creek.

Either way, we get that you think Phoenix is the greatest since sliced bread already.  No need to make comparisons to other cites that don’t really align with the narrative you are trying to create.
Do you just enjoy arguing with me?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on July 30, 2022, 12:45:40 PM
The Atlanta Metro Area is 8,376 square miles, Phoenix is 14,598 square miles.

Look at these photos, which one has more vacant land?

Have a look at the vacant land parcels owned by Surprise, Phoenix, Peoria and Goodyear.  Have a look at your average yard size in Scottsdale, northern Phoenix, Carefree or Cave Creek.

Either way, we get that you think Phoenix is the greatest since sliced bread already.  No need to make comparisons to other cites that don’t really align with the narrative you are trying to create.
Do you just enjoy arguing with me?

You could say that I like debating with you.  But in general I like to debate statements/arguments that don’t really make a lot of sense when I have familiarity with the topic at hand.

FWIW, I definitely found a ton of value in the Phoenix Metro area given I lived there 13 years.  Traffic had nothing to do with why I left, it was career pursuits coupled the real estate market getting out of hand.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Alps on July 30, 2022, 10:59:06 PM
kernals12, you are wrong about density so please move on in this thread thx
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on July 31, 2022, 10:27:45 AM
MAG is very confident in their ability to keep traffic moving even with Phoenix's population boom. In 2040, 42% of all VMT will still be in LOS A, down from 49% in 2018, and only 7.7% will be in LOS F, barely up from 5% in 2018, and this is with a forecast population of 6.2 million.

(https://i.imgur.com/V8M7OEW.png)
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: MisterRoadgeek on July 31, 2022, 07:54:31 PM
I mean Phoenix Light Traffic probably has to do with their freeways being built late, because Phoenix built their freeways way late after the Interstate Highway Defense Act, their freeways are engineered later which corrected most mistakes that engineers made such as having too many exits in a span of 1 miles. Interstate 17 in Phoenix is a good example of the issues engineers back such not spacing out lanes really, and low clearances underpasses.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on July 31, 2022, 09:16:01 PM
I mean Phoenix Light Traffic probably has to do with their freeways being built late, because Phoenix built their freeways way late after the Interstate Highway Defense Act, their freeways are engineered later which corrected most mistakes that engineers made such as having too many exits in a span of 1 miles. Interstate 17 in Phoenix is a good example of the issues engineers back such not spacing out lanes really, and low clearances underpasses.

I think the real reason is how decentralized their job centers are.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on August 02, 2022, 11:04:50 AM
AZ 24 is almost ready to open:


https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/AZDOT/bulletins/3263a24
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on August 02, 2022, 08:04:46 PM
I drove out in the West Valley the other day and saw the extension of the Northern Parkway appears very close to completion as well. Now if they can build it in the rest of the way to the 101, that would be great!
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Alps on August 02, 2022, 08:42:12 PM
AZ 24 is almost ready to open:


https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/AZDOT/bulletins/3263a24
How did Arizona ever arrive at the number 24 for this highway? So out of character for them.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on August 02, 2022, 08:53:29 PM
AZ 24 is almost ready to open:


https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/AZDOT/bulletins/3263a24
How did Arizona ever arrive at the number 24 for this highway? So out of character for them.
(https://i.imgur.com/0gy2BNe.jpg)
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on August 02, 2022, 10:35:16 PM
I drove out in the West Valley the other day and saw the extension of the Northern Parkway appears very close to completion as well. Now if they can build it in the rest of the way to the 101, that would be great!

It will be interesting to see if Northern Parkway keeps more of its freeway characteristics the closer it gets to Loop 101.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: KeithE4Phx on August 02, 2022, 10:37:17 PM
How did Arizona ever arrive at the number 24 for this highway? So out of character for them.

They ran out of numbers higher than 60, other than 94.  94 has never been assigned to either a state or US highway.  All others between 60 and 99 are or have been assigned at one time or another. 

I don't know this for sure, but maybe their policy is to use lower digits strictly for non-loop freeways, such as AZ 24, 30, and 51 that are being used today or will be in the near future, and AZ 48 and 50 that have since been discontinued.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kurumi on August 03, 2022, 12:12:04 AM
AZ 24 is almost ready to open:


https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/AZDOT/bulletins/3263a24
How did Arizona ever arrive at the number 24 for this highway? So out of character for them.

There's a great Mr. Show mafia sketch where the Don is convinced 24 is the highest number, and it's fatal to contradict him. Unfortunately, it's been taken off Youtube and the sites that still have it look a little sketchy. For me, hearing 24 always reminds me of that skit.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: JoePCool14 on August 03, 2022, 12:07:23 PM
FWIW pre-beautification AZ 51 was a magnet for vandalism just as many freeways of it’s vintage tend to be.  Unattractive designs tend to breed/encourage things like vandalism and stuff like dumping of trash.  For the most part I think one can draw some conclusions that utilizing an appealing design aesthetic saves on the back in mitigation of vandalism costs.  If something looks cared for and maintained, it tends to deter things like vandalism.

The 6th St bridge in Los Angeles would like to have a word with that.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on August 03, 2022, 12:21:47 PM
FWIW pre-beautification AZ 51 was a magnet for vandalism just as many freeways of it’s vintage tend to be.  Unattractive designs tend to breed/encourage things like vandalism and stuff like dumping of trash.  For the most part I think one can draw some conclusions that utilizing an appealing design aesthetic saves on the back in mitigation of vandalism costs.  If something looks cared for and maintained, it tends to deter things like vandalism.

The 6th St bridge in Los Angeles would like to have a word with that.

Questionable if that Postmodern design is actually appealing…
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on August 03, 2022, 07:23:23 PM
I-17 at Thomas Drive; March 1973 vs October 2015
(https://i.imgur.com/xNpadjH.png)

It looks like 2 more lanes did in fact fix traffic.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: KeithE4Phx on August 03, 2022, 09:45:22 PM
To nitpick, that's "Thomas Road," not "Thomas Drive."  All the one-mile-grid thoroughfares between McDowell and Bethany Home are Roads.  :-P
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on August 03, 2022, 10:29:29 PM
To nitpick, that's "Thomas Road," not "Thomas Drive."  All the one-mile-grid thoroughfares between McDowell and Bethany Home are Roads.  :-P


Maybe it's my appreciation for Luke Bryan's music that caused that error
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on August 12, 2022, 02:39:58 AM
The AZ 24 extension is open, as of Thursday, August 11:

https://azdot.gov/adot-news/adot-opens-new-stretch-sr-24-east-williams-field-road
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on August 12, 2022, 10:00:33 AM
The AZ 24 extension is open, as of Thursday, August 11:

https://azdot.gov/adot-news/adot-opens-new-stretch-sr-24-east-williams-field-road
Just in time. The first subdivision in Superstition Vistas is getting built.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on August 12, 2022, 12:26:02 PM
Looks like Gilbert has been introducing new dark blue illuminated street blades with a custom font. Early versions had their town logo in color, but the newest installations now have their logo in a white outline. Chandler has had its distinctive brown illuminated street blades for years, and Mesa in recent years has introduced branding to its street blades at signalized intersections, so Gilbert is now following suit.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Bigmikelakers on August 16, 2022, 08:20:52 PM
Looks like Gilbert has been introducing new dark blue illuminated street blades with a custom font. Early versions had their town logo in color, but the newest installations now have their logo in a white outline. Chandler has had its distinctive brown illuminated street blades for years, and Mesa in recent years has introduced branding to its street blades at signalized intersections, so Gilbert is now following suit.

Where have you seen the new Gilbert street blades? I live in Queen Creek and wish they would brand their street signs/blades like most cities do.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on August 17, 2022, 10:32:55 AM
Looks like Gilbert has been introducing new dark blue illuminated street blades with a custom font. Early versions had their town logo in color, but the newest installations now have their logo in a white outline. Chandler has had its distinctive brown illuminated street blades for years, and Mesa in recent years has introduced branding to its street blades at signalized intersections, so Gilbert is now following suit.

Where have you seen the new Gilbert street blades? I live in Queen Creek and wish they would brand their street signs/blades like most cities do.


They are on the illuminated signs at the traffic lights. Most of them are in South Gilbert, although some have recently started to pop up north of the 202.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: The Ghostbuster on August 17, 2022, 12:49:23 PM
Now that AZ 24 extends to Ironwood Rd. (even though it is a service road connection), are there any updates on when it will connect with the future Pinal North—South Freeway? Or is construction of that freeway a very long way off?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: KeithE4Phx on August 17, 2022, 03:05:48 PM
Now that AZ 24 extends to Ironwood Rd. (even though it is a service road connection), are there any updates on when it will connect with the future Pinal North—South Freeway? Or is construction of that freeway a very long way off?

It's still years away, as are any freeway upgrades to AZ 24.  The final route was announced a year ago, but Tier 2 environmental studies still need to be done before construction contracts are awarded.  Those studies are not yet funded.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: DJStephens on August 17, 2022, 07:08:07 PM
Now that AZ 24 extends to Ironwood Rd. (even though it is a service road connection), are there any updates on when it will connect with the future Pinal North—South Freeway? Or is construction of that freeway a very long way off?

By the looks of the photo in the ADOT link, they did not build complete interchanges at N-S cross roads.   Rather ended the mainlanes at either side, and funneled traffic up ramps at each N-S future interchange.   At least the thing has a decent median, if they ever needed to widen the thing.   
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: KeithE4Phx on August 17, 2022, 08:49:37 PM
Now that AZ 24 extends to Ironwood Rd. (even though it is a service road connection), are there any updates on when it will connect with the future Pinal North—South Freeway? Or is construction of that freeway a very long way off?

By the looks of the photo in the ADOT link, they did not build complete interchanges at N-S cross roads.   Rather ended the mainlanes at either side, and funneled traffic up ramps at each N-S future interchange.   At least the thing has a decent median, if they ever needed to widen the thing.   

They built the interchange ramps to the connecting roads, but not the overpasses.  The overpasses will be added later, making AZ 24 a full freeway.  This is common in metro Phoenix.  They still exist on the 303 west of I-17, although this will be upgraded to a full freeway starting next year, IIRC.  However, none of the streets that will connect to it (35th, 43rd, and 67th Aves) have been extended that far north yet. 

AZ 51 started out this way, too, back in the '80s.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on August 18, 2022, 12:08:04 AM
My concern right now is that the Transportation Tax money expires in only a couple more years, and I've heard nothing about extending it. And given the current makeup of the State Gov't leadership (obviously the next election is going to have a massive impact on that), I don't see many of them pushing for that to be extended. Without that extension, I'm afraid we may not ever see the completion of the 303, Tres Rios, SR 24, and the Pinal N/S freeway, along with any kind of "large scale" improvement of I-17 through Phoenix which is the sore thumb of outdated design compared to nearly every other freeway in the Valley.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: The Ghostbuster on August 19, 2022, 02:58:14 PM
If the Transportation Tax money isn't extended, might Arizona have to resort to ("gasp") charging tolls to get these projects funded and built?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: jakeroot on August 19, 2022, 05:51:11 PM
I guess it's hard to not be political, but have there been any serious thoughts on how to fund Phoenix's freeway system once Prop 400 ends?

I read that it was going to be extended but was, to keep it vague, "struck down from the top". Which leaves me a bit worried. Also a bit shocked, since Prop 400 has clearly been a boon for Phoenix.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on August 20, 2022, 10:04:07 AM
Looks like Gilbert has been introducing new dark blue illuminated street blades with a custom font. Early versions had their town logo in color, but the newest installations now have their logo in a white outline. Chandler has had its distinctive brown illuminated street blades for years, and Mesa in recent years has introduced branding to its street blades at signalized intersections, so Gilbert is now following suit.

Where have you seen the new Gilbert street blades? I live in Queen Creek and wish they would brand their street signs/blades like most cities do.


Gilbert seems to go through a lot of looks with their illuminated signs at traffic signals. Some of the newest ones I have specifically seen on Higley Rd south of US 60 and Val Vista Dr around Loop 202.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on August 20, 2022, 10:09:03 AM
The last couple weekends Northern Parkway has been closed in either direction from Litchfield Rd to east of El Mirage Rd for restriping and signage. Wouldn't be surprised to see the newest mile finally open around Labor Day weekend.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on August 20, 2022, 11:39:53 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/B9Ky9Ra.jpg)

Check out the bridge that carries the Union Pacific railroad over the Gila Bend Highway in Casa Grande
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: rower155 on August 22, 2022, 04:03:07 PM
I guess it's hard to not be political, but have there been any serious thoughts on how to fund Phoenix's freeway system once Prop 400 ends?

I read that it was going to be extended but was, to keep it vague, "struck down from the top". Which leaves me a bit worried. Also a bit shocked, since Prop 400 has clearly been a boon for Phoenix.

The ONLY one to disapprove was the governor.  Every other leader in the county approves and wants it on the ballot for the voters to decide. It's clearly political nonsense, but not to worry since he's at the term limits. The current tax doesn't expire until 2025, so there's time to get it on another ballot. It passed overwhelmingly last time and it will again. The majority of the people want the projects to continue.   
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on August 22, 2022, 05:18:31 PM
I guess it's hard to not be political, but have there been any serious thoughts on how to fund Phoenix's freeway system once Prop 400 ends?

I read that it was going to be extended but was, to keep it vague, "struck down from the top". Which leaves me a bit worried. Also a bit shocked, since Prop 400 has clearly been a boon for Phoenix.

The ONLY one to disapprove was the governor.  Every other leader in the county approves and wants it on the ballot for the voters to decide. It's clearly political nonsense, but not to worry since he's at the term limits. The current tax doesn't expire until 2025, so there's time to get it on another ballot. It passed overwhelmingly last time and it will again. The majority of the people want the projects to continue.

It depends. I don't think Kari Lake would support such a sales tax.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on August 27, 2022, 07:07:20 PM
Another mile of Northern Parkway is officially open. The highway now goes to east of El Mirage Rd before transitioning into Northern Ave.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on September 03, 2022, 02:23:44 PM
Another mile of Northern Parkway is officially open. The highway now goes to east of El Mirage Rd before transitioning into Northern Ave.

Any word on when they will be extending it any further? The official page for the project hasn't been updated in over a year. Plus given how seemingly every current ADOT project is going significantly beyond the original timelines, I worry that if things stall out that they'll never get going. I know Northern Parkway is a MAG project, but I wonder if eventually it would be turned over to ADOT kinda like how the 51 originally was built.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on September 03, 2022, 06:55:38 PM
Another mile of Northern Parkway is officially open. The highway now goes to east of El Mirage Rd before transitioning into Northern Ave.

Any word on when they will be extending it any further? The official page for the project hasn't been updated in over a year. Plus given how seemingly every current ADOT project is going significantly beyond the original timelines, I worry that if things stall out that they'll never get going. I know Northern Parkway is a MAG project, but I wonder if eventually it would be turned over to ADOT kinda like how the 51 originally was built.

I haven't found anything about any extension getting started anytime soon. There are some houses close to current Northern Ave (west of Loop 101), and a Circle K is under construction at 107th Ave.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ztonyg on September 09, 2022, 01:35:42 PM
I guess it's hard to not be political, but have there been any serious thoughts on how to fund Phoenix's freeway system once Prop 400 ends?

I read that it was going to be extended but was, to keep it vague, "struck down from the top". Which leaves me a bit worried. Also a bit shocked, since Prop 400 has clearly been a boon for Phoenix.

The ONLY one to disapprove was the governor.  Every other leader in the county approves and wants it on the ballot for the voters to decide. It's clearly political nonsense, but not to worry since he's at the term limits. The current tax doesn't expire until 2025, so there's time to get it on another ballot. It passed overwhelmingly last time and it will again. The majority of the people want the projects to continue.

It depends. I don't think Kari Lake would support such a sales tax.

There's also a ballot proposition that has a good chance of winning that will raise the threshold for any future tax increases from currently needing over 50% of the vote to over 60% of the vote. This will kill a lot of potential ballot initiatives.

I think tolling may be the only option to expand the freeway system.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on September 09, 2022, 04:29:29 PM
I guess it's hard to not be political, but have there been any serious thoughts on how to fund Phoenix's freeway system once Prop 400 ends?

I read that it was going to be extended but was, to keep it vague, "struck down from the top". Which leaves me a bit worried. Also a bit shocked, since Prop 400 has clearly been a boon for Phoenix.

The ONLY one to disapprove was the governor.  Every other leader in the county approves and wants it on the ballot for the voters to decide. It's clearly political nonsense, but not to worry since he's at the term limits. The current tax doesn't expire until 2025, so there's time to get it on another ballot. It passed overwhelmingly last time and it will again. The majority of the people want the projects to continue.

It depends. I don't think Kari Lake would support such a sales tax.

There's also a ballot proposition that has a good chance of winning that will raise the threshold for any future tax increases from currently needing over 50% of the vote to over 60% of the vote. This will kill a lot of potential ballot initiatives.

I think tolling may be the only option to expand the freeway system.
That initiative failed to make it on the ballot

https://ballotpedia.org/Arizona_Two-Thirds_Vote_for_Tax_Revenue_Increasing_Initiatives_Amendment_(2022)

Don't scare me man
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ztonyg on September 10, 2022, 05:06:08 PM
I guess it's hard to not be political, but have there been any serious thoughts on how to fund Phoenix's freeway system once Prop 400 ends?

I read that it was going to be extended but was, to keep it vague, "struck down from the top". Which leaves me a bit worried. Also a bit shocked, since Prop 400 has clearly been a boon for Phoenix.

The ONLY one to disapprove was the governor.  Every other leader in the county approves and wants it on the ballot for the voters to decide. It's clearly political nonsense, but not to worry since he's at the term limits. The current tax doesn't expire until 2025, so there's time to get it on another ballot. It passed overwhelmingly last time and it will again. The majority of the people want the projects to continue.

It depends. I don't think Kari Lake would support such a sales tax.

There's also a ballot proposition that has a good chance of winning that will raise the threshold for any future tax increases from currently needing over 50% of the vote to over 60% of the vote. This will kill a lot of potential ballot initiatives.

I think tolling may be the only option to expand the freeway system.
That initiative failed to make it on the ballot

https://ballotpedia.org/Arizona_Two-Thirds_Vote_for_Tax_Revenue_Increasing_Initiatives_Amendment_(2022)

Don't scare me man

I'm not trying to scare you. It's on the ballot (at a 60% threshold as opposed to 66%). This could end up with very far reaching negative implications for Arizona on a whole host of issues in the coming years. 

https://ballotpedia.org/Arizona_Proposition_132,_60%25_Vote_Requirement_for_Ballot_Measures_to_Approve_Taxes_Amendment_(2022) (https://ballotpedia.org/Arizona_Proposition_132,_60%25_Vote_Requirement_for_Ballot_Measures_to_Approve_Taxes_Amendment_(2022))
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: jdbx on September 12, 2022, 01:12:50 PM
This is very similar to the 2/3 requirement that Proposition 13 (1978) set in place for tax increases in California.  It's quite common to see a tax measure lose with > 60% of the vote, even for arguably "popular" causes like school funding, libraries, or highway improvement.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ztonyg on September 12, 2022, 03:45:50 PM
This is very similar to the 2/3 requirement that Proposition 13 (1978) set in place for tax increases in California.  It's quite common to see a tax measure lose with > 60% of the vote, even for arguably "popular" causes like school funding, libraries, or highway improvement.

Exactly. Which is why I think that Arizona may need to find new ways to fund highways (i.e. HOT lanes or tolling new sections of highway) if this law passes.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: brad2971 on September 12, 2022, 09:57:04 PM
I guess it's hard to not be political, but have there been any serious thoughts on how to fund Phoenix's freeway system once Prop 400 ends?

I read that it was going to be extended but was, to keep it vague, "struck down from the top". Which leaves me a bit worried. Also a bit shocked, since Prop 400 has clearly been a boon for Phoenix.

The ONLY one to disapprove was the governor.  Every other leader in the county approves and wants it on the ballot for the voters to decide. It's clearly political nonsense, but not to worry since he's at the term limits. The current tax doesn't expire until 2025, so there's time to get it on another ballot. It passed overwhelmingly last time and it will again. The majority of the people want the projects to continue.

It depends. I don't think Kari Lake would support such a sales tax.

There's also a ballot proposition that has a good chance of winning that will raise the threshold for any future tax increases from currently needing over 50% of the vote to over 60% of the vote. This will kill a lot of potential ballot initiatives.

I think tolling may be the only option to expand the freeway system.
That initiative failed to make it on the ballot

https://ballotpedia.org/Arizona_Two-Thirds_Vote_for_Tax_Revenue_Increasing_Initiatives_Amendment_(2022)

Don't scare me man

I'm not trying to scare you. It's on the ballot (at a 60% threshold as opposed to 66%). This could end up with very far reaching negative implications for Arizona on a whole host of issues in the coming years. 

https://ballotpedia.org/Arizona_Proposition_132,_60%25_Vote_Requirement_for_Ballot_Measures_to_Approve_Taxes_Amendment_(2022) (https://ballotpedia.org/Arizona_Proposition_132,_60%25_Vote_Requirement_for_Ballot_Measures_to_Approve_Taxes_Amendment_(2022))

No, there won't be "negative implications" from a mere ballot measure. AZ is merely catching up to CA (with Prop 13) and CO (with TABOR). Not to mention, the likes of South Dakota and Iowa get along just fine with a 60% supermajority requirement to pass a school bond issue.

OTOH, Arizona and metro Phoenix are about to find out what happens when most of the rest of the nation doesn't have to live in the Valley of the Sun. IOW, don't expect the likes of Douglas Ranch to be even half-built out anytime in your lives.

Las Vegas is about to face a similar issue, beyond water, when they start realizing that 95% of those who wanted to leave CA...have already left.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on September 12, 2022, 10:04:11 PM
The upward growth of Las Vegas, Phoenix and Boise from Bay Area and Los Angeles migration likely isn’t to end soon.  Take a look at Boise, they don’t have a bunch of infrastructure projects in the pipeline and that isn’t stopping transplants from moving there.  If Phoenix slows infrastructure development it just means that certain areas will develop too quickly and become functionally obsolete.  That’s really how the Phoenix metro area was when I arrived in 2001.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Plutonic Panda on September 12, 2022, 10:54:11 PM
The upward growth of Las Vegas, Phoenix and Boise from Bay Area and Los Angeles migration likely isn’t to end soon.  Take a look at Boise, they don’t have a bunch of infrastructure projects in the pipeline and that isn’t stopping transplants from moving there.  If Phoenix slows infrastructure development it just means that certain areas will develop too quickly and become functionally obsolete.  That’s really how the Phoenix metro area was when I arrived in 2001.
It’s going to be very interesting to watching how Boise grows.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Bobby5280 on September 14, 2022, 10:59:40 PM
I was just reading how the North Central Utah region is reaching a crisis point with the Great Salt Lake due to population/industry growth and increased water diversion there. The Great Salt Lake has shrank 66% since the 1980's. It's possible nearly all of the lake could dry out if current water use trends and severe drought cycles continue. Consequences could be very serious. Aside from the environmental impact to wildlife a dried out lake bed could unleash toxic dust into the air. The lake bed contains an enormous amount of arsenic along with some other bad stuff. A lot of commercially grown fish and shrimp and the US are fed using brine shrimp and brine shrimp eggs harvested from the Great Salt Lake. Salinity levels in the lake are increasing; if the levels get too high the brine shrimp in the lake will die off.

The Boise area looks like it's in better shape with water supply than a lot of other Mountain West region cities.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on September 22, 2022, 08:25:32 PM
So last weekend the new Lindsay Rd interchange opened at Loop 202 in Gilbert. It should help with some of the traffic at the Gilbert Rd and Val Vista Dr interchanges.

Also last weekend, paving and striping started for the additional lane on I-10 EB between Baseline Rd and Ray Rd. Weather permitting, this section will be done and will be the first section of the Broadway Curve project to be significantly complete by the end of the year.

https://azdot.gov/adot-news/eastbound-i-10-closed-between-us-60-and-loop-202-santansouth-mountain-freeway-weekend-se-0
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on September 23, 2022, 10:18:47 AM
So last weekend the new Lindsay Rd interchange opened at Loop 202 in Gilbert. It should help with some of the traffic at the Gilbert Rd and Val Vista Dr interchanges.

Also last weekend, paving and striping started for the additional lane on I-10 EB between Baseline Rd and Ray Rd. Weather permitting, this section will be done and will be the first section of the Broadway Curve project to be significantly complete by the end of the year.

https://azdot.gov/adot-news/eastbound-i-10-closed-between-us-60-and-loop-202-santansouth-mountain-freeway-weekend-se-0 (https://azdot.gov/adot-news/eastbound-i-10-closed-between-us-60-and-loop-202-santansouth-mountain-freeway-weekend-se-0)

Many Queen Creek residents use the Val Vista exit as a shortcut to get to QC (then go down Germann and Rittenhouse), as it can often be faster than going up to SR 24 and Ellsworth when coming from Chandler. The Lindsay exit will ease traffic on the Val Vista exit.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on September 25, 2022, 05:07:16 PM
So I noticed that ADOT has a Loop 303 Flickr link, specifically for the future 43rd Ave to the future 51st Ave:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/arizonadot/albums/72177720301714914

From what I have observed in the field recently, there's a lot of dirt being moved and piled in the current median of Loop 303. The city of Phoenix has graded the future 43rd and 51st Avenues north of the freeway.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kdk on September 26, 2022, 07:17:22 PM
I guess it's hard to not be political, but have there been any serious thoughts on how to fund Phoenix's freeway system once Prop 400 ends?

I read that it was going to be extended but was, to keep it vague, "struck down from the top". Which leaves me a bit worried. Also a bit shocked, since Prop 400 has clearly been a boon for Phoenix.

The ONLY one to disapprove was the governor.  Every other leader in the county approves and wants it on the ballot for the voters to decide. It's clearly political nonsense, but not to worry since he's at the term limits. The current tax doesn't expire until 2025, so there's time to get it on another ballot. It passed overwhelmingly last time and it will again. The majority of the people want the projects to continue.

It depends. I don't think Kari Lake would support such a sales tax.

There's also a ballot proposition that has a good chance of winning that will raise the threshold for any future tax increases from currently needing over 50% of the vote to over 60% of the vote. This will kill a lot of potential ballot initiatives.

I think tolling may be the only option to expand the freeway system.
That initiative failed to make it on the ballot

https://ballotpedia.org/Arizona_Two-Thirds_Vote_for_Tax_Revenue_Increasing_Initiatives_Amendment_(2022)

Don't scare me man

I'm not trying to scare you. It's on the ballot (at a 60% threshold as opposed to 66%). This could end up with very far reaching negative implications for Arizona on a whole host of issues in the coming years. 

https://ballotpedia.org/Arizona_Proposition_132,_60%25_Vote_Requirement_for_Ballot_Measures_to_Approve_Taxes_Amendment_(2022) (https://ballotpedia.org/Arizona_Proposition_132,_60%25_Vote_Requirement_for_Ballot_Measures_to_Approve_Taxes_Amendment_(2022))

No, there won't be "negative implications" from a mere ballot measure. AZ is merely catching up to CA (with Prop 13) and CO (with TABOR). Not to mention, the likes of South Dakota and Iowa get along just fine with a 60% supermajority requirement to pass a school bond issue.

OTOH, Arizona and metro Phoenix are about to find out what happens when most of the rest of the nation doesn't have to live in the Valley of the Sun. IOW, don't expect the likes of Douglas Ranch to be even half-built out anytime in your lives.

Las Vegas is about to face a similar issue, beyond water, when they start realizing that 95% of those who wanted to leave CA...have already left.

I don't think this passing matters much on freeway funding.

This only applies to citizen initiatives that make the ballot.  The previous propositions that have funded the freeway taxes all were referred to the ballot by the legislature.  those will continue to only need a simple majority, or 50% plus 1 to pass.  The citizen initiatives are the ones where someone gathers enough signatures to make the ballot outside of an elected official.

This came about from Prop 208 that passed in 2020, where it raised income taxes on high income earners to the level of the highest taxed states like California.  In Arizona if a citizen initiative passes the legislature cannot change it.  The legislature cut other taxes to keep the high income residents from moving out of state to Texas, Nevada, Florida, etc, but this could be undone again by another initiative, hence why this is being proposed.

I don't recall there has ever been a freeway or transportation initiative that wasn't proposed by citizens, there were all by the legislature.  I also believe the governor cannot veto these if they pass the legislature by a simple majority (I could be wrong though).
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on October 06, 2022, 06:17:02 AM
So EB I-10 has been paved and widened between Baseline Rd and Ray Rd. ADOT story on it:


 https://azdot.gov/adot-news/new-eastbound-i-10-travel-lane-opens-southeast-valley-0
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on October 15, 2022, 09:48:20 PM
Why does the Governor even need to approve a county-level tax measure?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: DJStephens on October 16, 2022, 03:40:25 PM
The upward growth of Las Vegas, Phoenix and Boise from Bay Area and Los Angeles migration likely isn’t to end soon.  Take a look at Boise, they don’t have a bunch of infrastructure projects in the pipeline and that isn’t stopping transplants from moving there.  If Phoenix slows infrastructure development it just means that certain areas will develop too quickly and become functionally obsolete.  That’s really how the Phoenix metro area was when I arrived in 2001.

The same could be said for both Albuquerque and Las Cruces.   Decades of "ostrich" head in the sand behaviors regarding foresight and planning will likely doom both areas to crushing congestion in many places.   The "progressive" element touts "road diets" and transit.  Meanwhile thousands of additional vehicle trips are being made.   
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Bobby5280 on October 17, 2022, 11:26:45 AM
Toss Colorado into that group of ostrich head in the sand behavior regarding highway planning. I have family in Colorado Springs and enjoy visiting them, but I really hate driving around that region. It is a real PITA. They're play slow-motion whack-a-mole up there. For every grade-separated interchange project they do on a city street intersection there's at least 10 others with worsening traffic situations in need of the same treatment. So they're falling farther and farther behind. There is no real freeway network there. At best, the only thing city planners attempt to do is control the number of driveways and side streets connecting directly with major arterial streets.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on October 31, 2022, 01:04:15 PM
Ground is finally being broken on Douglas Ranch, now known as Teravalis (https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/the-howard-hughes-corporation-breaks-ground-on-teravalis-in-the-phoenix-west-valley-creating-arizonas-largest-master-planned-community-301663106.html). The master planned community will span 37,000 acres and be home to 300,000 people.

I hope ADOT has plans to accommodate those people's travel desires
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on October 31, 2022, 01:13:05 PM
Sweet, more lame modern cookie cutter homes for the basic crowd to fawn over.  Essentially the Gilbert and Queen Creek boom all over again except this time in Buckeye.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on October 31, 2022, 01:17:58 PM
Sweet, more lame modern cookie cutter homes for the basic crowd to fawn over.  Essentially the Gilbert and Queen Creek boom all over again except this time in Buckeye.

Okay Frank Lloyd Wright, let's see what your house looks like.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on October 31, 2022, 01:39:17 PM
Sweet, more lame modern cookie cutter homes for the basic crowd to fawn over.  Essentially the Gilbert and Queen Creek boom all over again except this time in Buckeye.

Okay Frank Lloyd Wright, let's see what your house looks like.

Here is a sample of what I could find online of my current residence in public viewing spaces.

The garage presently how it is:

https://flic.kr/p/2nWpHNt

Slightly out of date yard and how the garage once was like.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/151828809@N08/4n190Zm90z

I’m not saying that I disagree my house is a generic or cookie cutter base facade.  In fact my house technically is my wife’s house.  She bought said house during a foreclosure sale during the last real estate bubble crash years before I met her.  I just happened to begin dating her basically around the exact same time I was considering staying long enough in California to purchase my own home.  My preference would have been an older home with an older aesthetic, I did walk a couple older homes in downtown Hanford circa 2016-17  but they weren’t priced to my liking.

I can’t find any decent views of the interior but my wife tends to be pretty creative and has decorated/painted much of the initial 2000s era facade away.  The highway theme (my wife’s idea) is pretty much contained to spaces I occupy, although I do have a large reference library in the game room.  My niece’s room is painted a color of her choosing, slightly polarizing hot pink IMO.

Presently I am building a terraced nursery for my wife out in the back which will also serve to eliminate the last patch of grass.  I’ll probably do rocks out front at the remaining patch of grass eventually as well.  I did preserve the irrigation for the unlikely event we move or my wife wants to go back to grass again

Worth noting, when I owned a home in Scottsdale it was a house built during the 1970s.  The fact that I had wooden sidings along made it very different aesthetically than the more modern homes in the area.  The next owner pulled those out and painted the exterior a shade of cream/white.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on October 31, 2022, 02:09:34 PM
We live in cookie cutter homes for the same reason we drive cookie cutter cars and talk on cookie cutter smartphones: economies of scale
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on October 31, 2022, 02:35:55 PM
We live in cookie cutter homes for the same reason we drive cookie cutter cars and talk on cookie cutter smartphones: economies of scale

Doesn’t make any of them less boring.  Basically with the cookie cutter housing it is 2.3 kids, a dog and white picket fence with a modern coat of paint.  Paint me as someone who doesn’t get excited at the prospect of a ubiquitous/generic lifestyle.

All the same, buying all the way out where this developer is building is an interesting repeat of Queen Creek and Gilbert.  Those two communities blew up before the Loop 202 and Loop 101 could serve them efficiently.  Commuting from Queen Creek and Gilbert was an absolute nightmare until that access was completed.  Now we have a similar scale of development going in around Buckeye but with less solid assurance the infrastructure capacity will be built. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on October 31, 2022, 03:11:54 PM
We live in cookie cutter homes for the same reason we drive cookie cutter cars and talk on cookie cutter smartphones: economies of scale

Doesn’t make any of them less boring.  Basically with the cookie cutter housing it is 2.3 kids, a dog and white picket fence with a modern coat of paint.  Paint me as someone who doesn’t get excited at the prospect of a ubiquitous/generic lifestyle.

All the same, buying all the way out where this developer is building is an interesting repeat of Queen Creek and Gilbert.  Those two communities blew up before the Loop 202 and Loop 101 could serve them efficiently.  Commuting from Queen Creek and Gilbert was an absolute nightmare until that access was completed.  Now we have a similar scale of development going in around Buckeye but with less solid assurance the infrastructure capacity will be built.

Luckily Teravalis includes an easement for Interstate 11 no matter how long it takes to get funding.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on October 31, 2022, 03:14:53 PM
We live in cookie cutter homes for the same reason we drive cookie cutter cars and talk on cookie cutter smartphones: economies of scale

Doesn’t make any of them less boring.  Basically with the cookie cutter housing it is 2.3 kids, a dog and white picket fence with a modern coat of paint.  Paint me as someone who doesn’t get excited at the prospect of a ubiquitous/generic lifestyle.

All the same, buying all the way out where this developer is building is an interesting repeat of Queen Creek and Gilbert.  Those two communities blew up before the Loop 202 and Loop 101 could serve them efficiently.  Commuting from Queen Creek and Gilbert was an absolute nightmare until that access was completed.  Now we have a similar scale of development going in around Buckeye but with less solid assurance the infrastructure capacity will be built.

Luckily Teravalis includes an easement for Interstate 11 no matter how long it takes to get funding.

That will certainly help, but I-11 is one those things I’ll believe is going to happen when shovels are in the ground.  That whole course west of the White Tank Mountains makes zero sense as far as providing a Vegas-Phoenix link.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Bobby5280 on October 31, 2022, 06:27:19 PM
A planned community of 300,000 home-buying customers? It sounds to me like some developers are taking some market conditions for granted. There is a lot of variables in our nation's economy that are financially unsustainable for the long term. Only so many people can afford to buy a McMansion these days.

This kind of news reminds me of the mid 2000's when lots of people were getting suckered into paying top dollar for homes built way out in the "exhurbs" and financing them with adjustable rate mortgages. "Oh don't worry, you'll able to flip this house for even more money before your mortgage rate changes!"

There's a bunch of young adults who can't afford to move out of their parents' homes and make rent on an apartment. They gotta get one or more roommates. I'm worried this situation could dramatically worsen. I already own my own home, but I have other "selfish" concerns -like whether or not Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid will even still exist 20 or so years from now when I'm eligible to retire and start drawing benefits. It takes so and such large of a tax base to prevent those programs from going completely insolvent. That means having enough young adults who can afford to buy their own homes, get married, have kids and all that good stuff, including contributing to the tax base. A planned community built on speculation depends greatly on having enough young adult customers.

Quote from: Max Rockatansky
That will certainly help, but I-11 is one those things I’ll believe is going to happen when shovels are in the ground.  That whole course west of the White Tank Mountains makes zero sense as far as providing a Vegas-Phoenix link.

Bare minimum, I-11 should be routed down US-60 to at least the Loop 303 corridor then go down to I-10. Routing it way out past the White Tanks and Sun Valley Parkway doesn't make a lick of sense. The vast majority of Las Vegas to Phoenix traffic will stay on US-60.

If this 300,000 person residential development actually succeeds then, yes, a secondary 3 digit Interstate from Wickenburg straight down to I-10 might make sense. But it doesn't cancel out the need for a direct Phoenix-Vegas Interstate.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on October 31, 2022, 07:25:48 PM
The irony for me in all this real estate speculation is that it mirrors what happened during the previous bubble in Metro Phoenix.  At least back then the homes being built weren’t stuffed behind a presently impassable mountain range and had actual planned access waiting to be developed.  Paint me a skeptic, but I’ve been hearing this speculation regarding Buckeye going through a boom like this since I was 18 and it still hasn’t happened.  The city of Buckeye has about 392 square miles of land, much of it is open desert west of the White Tanks with close to zero inhabitants. 

This development is over 30 miles on I-10 to get from AZ 85 east to downtown Phoenix, who is this community going to actually serve?  If this was a retirement community like one of the many Sun City variants that would be one thing.  There is no way in hell 300,000 people from working class ages are going to move west of the White Tank Mountains. 

I really think that I made best possible choice for myself leaving Phoenix in 2013.  When the Metro Area has about 3,000,000 residents things were great and real estate prices were good.  Now to get an affordable home around Phoenix you have to live in the sticks and potentially drive an hour or more on a commute, no thanks.

Regarding I-11 you hit on the same route I preferred in the earlier threads on the topic.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on October 31, 2022, 09:07:30 PM
A planned community of 300,000 home-buying customers? It sounds to me like some developers are taking some market conditions for granted. There is a lot of variables in our nation's economy that are financially unsustainable for the long term. Only so many people can afford to buy a McMansion these days.

This kind of news reminds me of the mid 2000's when lots of people were getting suckered into paying top dollar for homes built way out in the "exhurbs" and financing them with adjustable rate mortgages. "Oh don't worry, you'll able to flip this house for even more money before your mortgage rate changes!"

There's a bunch of young adults who can't afford to move out of their parents' homes and make rent on an apartment. They gotta get one or more roommates. I'm worried this situation could dramatically worsen. I already own my own home, but I have other "selfish" concerns -like whether or not Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid will even still exist 20 or so years from now when I'm eligible to retire and start drawing benefits. It takes so and such large of a tax base to prevent those programs from going completely insolvent. That means having enough young adults who can afford to buy their own homes, get married, have kids and all that good stuff, including contributing to the tax base. A planned community built on speculation depends greatly on having enough young adult customers.

Quote from: Max Rockatansky
That will certainly help, but I-11 is one those things I’ll believe is going to happen when shovels are in the ground.  That whole course west of the White Tank Mountains makes zero sense as far as providing a Vegas-Phoenix link.

Bare minimum, I-11 should be routed down US-60 to at least the Loop 303 corridor then go down to I-10. Routing it way out past the White Tanks and Sun Valley Parkway doesn't make a lick of sense. The vast majority of Las Vegas to Phoenix traffic will stay on US-60.

If this 300,000 person residential development actually succeeds then, yes, a secondary 3 digit Interstate from Wickenburg straight down to I-10 might make sense. But it doesn't cancel out the need for a direct Phoenix-Vegas Interstate.
Phoenix is forecast to add 2.5 million people in the next 30 years. I think a community this size can succeed. Just look at Irvine or The Woodlands
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Bobby5280 on October 31, 2022, 09:11:39 PM
Irvine and The Woodlands don't broil in the Summer like that part of Arizona. Water supply isn't much of a tough issue in the Woodlands (but that area of the Houston metro is expensive as hell).
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: brad2971 on October 31, 2022, 10:07:36 PM
A planned community of 300,000 home-buying customers? It sounds to me like some developers are taking some market conditions for granted. There is a lot of variables in our nation's economy that are financially unsustainable for the long term. Only so many people can afford to buy a McMansion these days.

This kind of news reminds me of the mid 2000's when lots of people were getting suckered into paying top dollar for homes built way out in the "exhurbs" and financing them with adjustable rate mortgages. "Oh don't worry, you'll able to flip this house for even more money before your mortgage rate changes!"

There's a bunch of young adults who can't afford to move out of their parents' homes and make rent on an apartment. They gotta get one or more roommates. I'm worried this situation could dramatically worsen. I already own my own home, but I have other "selfish" concerns -like whether or not Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid will even still exist 20 or so years from now when I'm eligible to retire and start drawing benefits. It takes so and such large of a tax base to prevent those programs from going completely insolvent. That means having enough young adults who can afford to buy their own homes, get married, have kids and all that good stuff, including contributing to the tax base. A planned community built on speculation depends greatly on having enough young adult customers.

Quote from: Max Rockatansky
That will certainly help, but I-11 is one those things I’ll believe is going to happen when shovels are in the ground.  That whole course west of the White Tank Mountains makes zero sense as far as providing a Vegas-Phoenix link.

Bare minimum, I-11 should be routed down US-60 to at least the Loop 303 corridor then go down to I-10. Routing it way out past the White Tanks and Sun Valley Parkway doesn't make a lick of sense. The vast majority of Las Vegas to Phoenix traffic will stay on US-60.

If this 300,000 person residential development actually succeeds then, yes, a secondary 3 digit Interstate from Wickenburg straight down to I-10 might make sense. But it doesn't cancel out the need for a direct Phoenix-Vegas Interstate.
Phoenix is forecast to add 2.5 million people in the next 30 years. I think a community this size can succeed. Just look at Irvine or The Woodlands

Sure. Keep believing that. In the meantime, consider this: In 2005, Buckeye approved a 49000 unit development called Tartesso. This development is 1-2 miles off I-10 along Sun Valley Parkway. The development finished its first phase of about 3375 homes...just within the last year, and opened its second of what are planned to be 17 elementary schools just three months ago.

You may be waiting a while for that buildout of Teravalis (though to be fair, the east part of Teravalis does appear to be right next to Sun Valley Parkway as well).
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on November 01, 2022, 10:02:01 AM
A planned community of 300,000 home-buying customers? It sounds to me like some developers are taking some market conditions for granted. There is a lot of variables in our nation's economy that are financially unsustainable for the long term. Only so many people can afford to buy a McMansion these days.

This kind of news reminds me of the mid 2000's when lots of people were getting suckered into paying top dollar for homes built way out in the "exhurbs" and financing them with adjustable rate mortgages. "Oh don't worry, you'll able to flip this house for even more money before your mortgage rate changes!"

There's a bunch of young adults who can't afford to move out of their parents' homes and make rent on an apartment. They gotta get one or more roommates. I'm worried this situation could dramatically worsen. I already own my own home, but I have other "selfish" concerns -like whether or not Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid will even still exist 20 or so years from now when I'm eligible to retire and start drawing benefits. It takes so and such large of a tax base to prevent those programs from going completely insolvent. That means having enough young adults who can afford to buy their own homes, get married, have kids and all that good stuff, including contributing to the tax base. A planned community built on speculation depends greatly on having enough young adult customers.

Quote from: Max Rockatansky
That will certainly help, but I-11 is one those things I’ll believe is going to happen when shovels are in the ground.  That whole course west of the White Tank Mountains makes zero sense as far as providing a Vegas-Phoenix link.

Bare minimum, I-11 should be routed down US-60 to at least the Loop 303 corridor then go down to I-10. Routing it way out past the White Tanks and Sun Valley Parkway doesn't make a lick of sense. The vast majority of Las Vegas to Phoenix traffic will stay on US-60.

If this 300,000 person residential development actually succeeds then, yes, a secondary 3 digit Interstate from Wickenburg straight down to I-10 might make sense. But it doesn't cancel out the need for a direct Phoenix-Vegas Interstate.
Phoenix is forecast to add 2.5 million people in the next 30 years. I think a community this size can succeed. Just look at Irvine or The Woodlands

Sure. Keep believing that. In the meantime, consider this: In 2005, Buckeye approved a 49000 unit development called Tartesso. This development is 1-2 miles off I-10 along Sun Valley Parkway. The development finished its first phase of about 3375 homes...just within the last year, and opened its second of what are planned to be 17 elementary schools just three months ago.

You may be waiting a while for that buildout of Teravalis (though to be fair, the east part of Teravalis does appear to be right next to Sun Valley Parkway as well).

Back then, house flippers were illegally getting Arizona license plates, so many so that it was inflating Arizona's estimated population. Unlike then, today's demand is real.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on November 01, 2022, 10:07:02 AM
There was plenty of in-state flippers back then also.  As an example my brother did a bunch of flipping until he got stuck holding six houses when the real estate bubble burst.  He along with his construction buddies (also from Arizona) pretty much all ending up declaring bankruptcy.

But hey, you’re the guy who didn’t live through the era and has never owned a house in Arizona so that makes you an expert right?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: brad2971 on November 01, 2022, 10:00:19 PM
There was plenty of in-state flippers back then also.  As an example my brother did a bunch of flipping until he got stuck holding six houses when the real estate bubble burst.  He along with his construction buddies (also from Arizona) pretty much all ending up declaring bankruptcy.

But hey, you’re the guy who didn’t live through the era and has never owned a house in Arizona so that makes you an expert right?

I do apologize for apparently striking a raw nerve with some of my commentary on how metro Phoenix (and Las Vegas, for that matter) is about to have growth slowdowns in their future.

Now to be fair, the Howard Hughes Corporation is a well-funded development corporation that has been known to build freeways through their developments. Summerlin Parkway (in Las Vegas, now Nevada SR 613) famously comes to mind. And they could very well pay for much of the costs of building a four-lane freeway from I-10 up to the existing four-lane US 93 connection northwest of SR 89 near Wickenburg. I'm just...skeptical about Teravalis's full buildout prospects, especially when we're in the early stages of a huge transfer of housing from Baby Boomers to their Millenial/Gen Z children/grandchildren. And especially since, when it comes to moving, we as a nation, despite the last two years, are still in the lowest rates of moving in the entire post WW2-era.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on November 01, 2022, 10:11:20 PM
There was plenty of in-state flippers back then also.  As an example my brother did a bunch of flipping until he got stuck holding six houses when the real estate bubble burst.  He along with his construction buddies (also from Arizona) pretty much all ending up declaring bankruptcy.

But hey, you’re the guy who didn’t live through the era and has never owned a house in Arizona so that makes you an expert right?

I do apologize for apparently striking a raw nerve with some of my commentary on how metro Phoenix (and Las Vegas, for that matter) is about to have growth slowdowns in their future.

Now to be fair, the Howard Hughes Corporation is a well-funded development corporation that has been known to build freeways through their developments. Summerlin Parkway (in Las Vegas, now Nevada SR 613) famously comes to mind. And they could very well pay for much of the costs of building a four-lane freeway from I-10 up to the existing four-lane US 93 connection northwest of SR 89 near Wickenburg. I'm just...skeptical about Teravalis's full buildout prospects, especially when we're in the early stages of a huge transfer of housing from Baby Boomers to their Millenial/Gen Z children/grandchildren. And especially since, when it comes to moving, we as a nation, despite the last two years, are still in the lowest rates of moving in the entire post WW2-era.

To clarify, my last comment wasn’t directed towards anything you said.  It was directed towards the a certain poster who has never owned a home much less lived in Metro Phoenix. 

I do agree that part of Teravalis will get built, how much though remains to be seen.  When Buckeye incorporated it grew substantially around the corridor I-10 and MC 85 due to ease of access.  I’ve been hearing how Buckeye has been planning to expand west of the White Tanks since they incorporated as a city. 

The trouble is that even with improved infrastructure that is a long way from any of the working centers of the Phoenix area.  I can’t fathom that 300,000 people from working class homes will be able to reasonably live in a place so disconnected from the rest Phoenix Metro Area.  If there isn’t demand, the development simply won’t take off anywhere near to the scale being boasted Howard Hughes Corporation.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on November 02, 2022, 12:00:46 PM
There was plenty of in-state flippers back then also.  As an example my brother did a bunch of flipping until he got stuck holding six houses when the real estate bubble burst.  He along with his construction buddies (also from Arizona) pretty much all ending up declaring bankruptcy.

But hey, you’re the guy who didn’t live through the era and has never owned a house in Arizona so that makes you an expert right?

I do apologize for apparently striking a raw nerve with some of my commentary on how metro Phoenix (and Las Vegas, for that matter) is about to have growth slowdowns in their future.

Now to be fair, the Howard Hughes Corporation is a well-funded development corporation that has been known to build freeways through their developments. Summerlin Parkway (in Las Vegas, now Nevada SR 613) famously comes to mind. And they could very well pay for much of the costs of building a four-lane freeway from I-10 up to the existing four-lane US 93 connection northwest of SR 89 near Wickenburg. I'm just...skeptical about Teravalis's full buildout prospects, especially when we're in the early stages of a huge transfer of housing from Baby Boomers to their Millenial/Gen Z children/grandchildren. And especially since, when it comes to moving, we as a nation, despite the last two years, are still in the lowest rates of moving in the entire post WW2-era.

To clarify, my last comment wasn’t directed towards anything you said.  It was directed towards the a certain poster who has never owned a home much less lived in Metro Phoenix. 

I do agree that part of Teravalis will get built, how much though remains to be seen.  When Buckeye incorporated it grew substantially around the corridor I-10 and MC 85 due to ease of access.  I’ve been hearing how Buckeye has been planning to expand west of the White Tanks since they incorporated as a city. 

The trouble is that even with improved infrastructure that is a long way from any of the working centers of the Phoenix area.  I can’t fathom that 300,000 people from working class homes will be able to reasonably live in a place so disconnected from the rest Phoenix Metro Area.  If there isn’t demand, the development simply won’t take off anywhere near to the scale being boasted Howard Hughes Corporation.

I predict that Interstate 11 will attract lots of industrial and commercial development. If Tervalis is like other "new towns" like Woodlands, Irvine, or Columbia, it will become a major job center.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Bobby5280 on November 02, 2022, 12:36:43 PM
It's funny how people don't seem to remember economic conditions prior to the 2006 housing industry bust. $150 per barrel oil is one of the things that precipitated that collapse. That's when I saw $4 per gallon gasoline in the states for the first time.

Prior to that Hummer TV commercials were all over the broadcast air waves. Cheap gasoline was one of the things fueling new home developments farther and farther out from urban centers. Combine the cheap fuel with so many people buying homes with adjustable rate mortgages ("cuz we'll flip this house for a big profit in a copule years""). They weren't prepared for gasoline prices to spike and completely upend their already badly stretched financial game plans. I think this Teravalis development will depend on a lot of people to financially over-extend themselves to get anywhere near that 300,000 goal.

We've had gasoline prices hitting all time highs again. While gasoline prices have fallen some the prices for diesel remain stubbornly very high. Prices of so many things have risen and at rates well beyond average wage gains. These current conditions (and the rising interest rates associated with them) may be temporary. But they're not easily forgotten either. Prospective home buyers trying to weigh the pros and cons of living an hour's drive from work have to keep fuel costs (or even tolls) in mind.

Advances in technology, particularly Internet (not "Interstate" -freaking typo) infrastructure, may boost the growth of virtual work environments. That makes the overall outlook of where an employer may choose to build new offices less clear. I certainly don't see a boom of new office buildings happening in Buckeye anytime soon.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Pink Jazz on November 04, 2022, 06:40:09 PM
ADOT finally added travel times to the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway, as well as the eastern portion of the Loop 202 Red Mountain.

I personally thought it would have been a good idea to include a comparison of minutes to Queen Creek on L-202 EB via Val Vista vs. SR 24, as well as minutes to Phoenix via US 60 vs the Loop 202 Red Mountain.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ztonyg on November 04, 2022, 07:57:14 PM
ADOT finally added travel times to the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway, as well as the eastern portion of the Loop 202 Red Mountain.

I personally thought it would have been a good idea to include a comparison of minutes to Queen Creek on L-202 EB via Val Vista vs. SR 24, as well as minutes to Phoenix via US 60 vs the Loop 202 Red Mountain.

They also finally added L-202 in addition to I-17 Peoria or I-17 Durango to W/B I-10 downtown (prior to the South Mountain Freeway construction they listed time to 59th Ave).
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on May 06, 2023, 05:16:44 PM
Proposals to redo the I-10/Loop 101 interchange.  Will include direct HOV connectors and maybe modify existing ramps. Some flyover simulations below:


https://apps.azdot.gov/files/23/i10-pm2/Loop-101-at-I10-Alternatives-Flyover-Video-English.mp4
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: brad2971 on May 06, 2023, 05:51:11 PM
https://azdot.gov/business/engineering-consultants/upcoming-advertisements

Apparently, ADOT has something to say regarding Interstate 11 and its West Valley future: "2023-017-Interstate 11 (I-11), Interstate 10 (I-10) to United States Route 93 (US 93) Design Concept Report (DCR) and Tier 2 Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) Study Maricopa County ***Tentative advertisement FY23, Q3***"

So we may end up getting construction started within the next five years, given how long DCRs and EISs take to complete.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on May 09, 2023, 08:57:20 PM
Everything is really dependent on some sort of Sales Tax extension. If we can get another 20 year extension (original has been in place for nearly 40 years already) then that will help keep the momentum going. If it goes away with no replacement (something I could see a certain group of our local politicians trying to privatize in their "anti-all-taxes" crusade) then that will really put a damper on continuing to build out the Phoenix area system.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on May 10, 2023, 03:51:38 PM
As of Monday (5/8) Loop 303 traffic is now on a bridge going over the future 43rd Ave, which is under construction. The new bridge over the future 51st Ave should open in a few weeks.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on May 11, 2023, 01:01:50 PM
Looks like construction has started on the extension of SR 24 and the Central Arizona parkway (https://www.santanvalley.com/san-tan-valley-area-information/san-tan-valley-news/state-route-24-extension-and-central-arizona-parkway-project-set-to-transform-san-tan-valley).



(https://i.imgur.com/xFKbh3O.jpg)

 The CAP is not to be confused with the Pinal North South Freeway, it will run a few miles to the west and it will have at-grade intersections. Here's hoping it will get the "Arizona Parkway" treatment with median u-turns in lieu of left turns. Construction of the first segment will be finished by the end of this year and the whole thing is to be finished by 2028.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: DJStephens on May 14, 2023, 01:51:53 PM
would seem to make more sense to combine this parkway, and the Pinal Frwy as proposed into a single facility.   As straight and efficient as possible, yep that seems very hard to do, in this day and age.   
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on June 14, 2023, 12:45:56 AM
As of Monday (6/12) Loop 303 is now using the mainline at 51st Ave. All the entrance and exit ramps at 51st Ave are closed for reconstruction.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Plutonic Panda on June 14, 2023, 10:11:30 AM
Looks like the governor will veto the passage to keep prop 400 in place so all that’s left now would be for the legislature to override the veto, no?

https://www.azfamily.com/2023/06/14/gov-hobbs-veto-transportation-sales-tax-proposal-passed-by-republicans/
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on June 14, 2023, 01:49:12 PM
Looks like the governor will veto the passage to keep prop 400 in place so all that’s left now would be for the legislature to override the veto, no?

https://www.azfamily.com/2023/06/14/gov-hobbs-veto-transportation-sales-tax-proposal-passed-by-republicans/

Context is important hereon exactly why the Governor opposes this specific bill. This version is the Conservative version which basically strips all mass-transit funding including light rail, bike paths, etc. and focuses almost exclusively on freeways and roads. While I can certainly understand the fact that mass-transit is trickier in such a spread out metro area, I think there's still plenty of opportunities for that to co-exist. Obviously in the Phoenix area, the road network and freeways will always be the dominant form of transit and there is plenty of expansion needed there as well. But the current bill is heavily pushed by the same "dark money" that fought the Central Ave expansion (Koch Brothers were heavily involved there) so this bill is really not in line with the actual needs of the Phoenix metro, it's being pushed by those with personal financial interest in eliminating mass-transit.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: splashflash on June 14, 2023, 04:04:11 PM
Looks like the governor will veto the passage to keep prop 400 in place so all that’s left now would be for the legislature to override the veto, no?

https://www.azfamily.com/2023/06/14/gov-hobbs-veto-transportation-sales-tax-proposal-passed-by-republicans/
Obviously in the Phoenix area, the road network and freeways will always be the dominant form of transit and there is plenty of expansion needed there as well.

Is there need for transit expansion?  From a blog you might probably dislike, it critiques the plan...

For example, over at least the past 30 years, transit has never carried more than 0.8 percent of passenger travel, yet the plan dedicates more than 40 percent of the region’s transportation funds to transit. Planners hope to attract people out of their cars, yet in the decade before 2019, despite spending billions on transit, driving grew while transit was stagnant. The pandemic, of course, cut transit ridership even more: for the past two years, it has hovered around 55 percent of pre-pandemic numbers and show no signed of further recovery.

By failing to consider a wide range of alternatives, MAG ended up writing a plan that didn’t make sense for the 21th century. By failing to evaluate alternatives, it ignored low-cost solutions that could do more to accomplish the plan’s goals. By failing to monitor previous plans, it repeated the same mistake over and over in long-range plans written about every five years.

in 2004, voters extended the sales tax but allowed some of it to be spent on transit, which resulted in the region building an expensive light-rail system. This actually did transit riders more harm than good because once the light rail opened, cuts in bus service led to a significant loss of bus riders.

https://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=20699#more-20699

BTW, not my blog.

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: The Ghostbuster on June 14, 2023, 06:44:56 PM
I read The Antiplanner blog every day. I once saw Randal O'Toole speak when he came to town in 2010. I even have a few of his books. Maybe Phoenix should have spent their transit money on buses instead of trains.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Plutonic Panda on June 14, 2023, 08:26:26 PM
Looks like the governor will veto the passage to keep prop 400 in place so all that’s left now would be for the legislature to override the veto, no?

https://www.azfamily.com/2023/06/14/gov-hobbs-veto-transportation-sales-tax-proposal-passed-by-republicans/

Context is important hereon exactly why the Governor opposes this specific bill. This version is the Conservative version which basically strips all mass-transit funding including light rail, bike paths, etc. and focuses almost exclusively on freeways and roads. While I can certainly understand the fact that mass-transit is trickier in such a spread out metro area, I think there's still plenty of opportunities for that to co-exist. Obviously in the Phoenix area, the road network and freeways will always be the dominant form of transit and there is plenty of expansion needed there as well. But the current bill is heavily pushed by the same "dark money" that fought the Central Ave expansion (Koch Brothers were heavily involved there) so this bill is really not in line with the actual needs of the Phoenix metro, it's being pushed by those with personal financial interest in eliminating mass-transit.
I’m not necessarily against that. Passenger rail traffic should have its own funding structure. Not logrolled into highway and road improvements.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on August 30, 2023, 02:16:13 AM
Just in time for Labor Day weekend,  Loop 303 interchanges at 43rd Ave and 51st Ave are fully open.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Henry on September 01, 2023, 11:40:54 PM
So what's the latest on AZ 30?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on September 02, 2023, 12:30:55 AM
So what's the latest on AZ 30?

Haven't heard anything new about AZ 30 recently. Other than some planning and a future alignment. Anything else going forward depends on funding. I looked on ADOT's page, didn't see anything recent about it.

https://azdot.gov/planning/transportation-studies/state-route-30-loop-303-loop-202-study
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: DJStephens on September 03, 2023, 12:09:21 PM
Appears all they have planned is a "SR 30" from a proposed southerly extension of "SR 303" to "Loop or SR 202".   Believe the original intent was to bring it all the way E to the "Broadway Curve" on I-17, which believe at one time was supposed to be for Interstate 10 coming in from the W.    The cover sheet depicts a "SR 300L to SR 30" connection, that twists like a pretzel.  Have to wonder, that is not the Final Plan?  Looks very Inefficient.   
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on September 03, 2023, 04:54:17 PM
Appears all they have planned is a "SR 30" from a proposed southerly extension of "SR 303" to "Loop or SR 202".   Believe the original intent was to bring it all the way E to the "Broadway Curve" on I-17, which believe at one time was supposed to be for Interstate 10 coming in from the W.    The cover sheet depicts a "SR 300L to SR 30" connection, that twists like a pretzel.  Have to wonder, that is not the Final Plan?  Looks very Inefficient.

So just to clarify based on what I've seen. Yes, the original plan for I-10 coming in from the west was to be much closer to this alignment and to interchange with I-17 at the Durango Curve. This is why at the Durango Curve, the WB/NB curve is lower than the SB/EB curve, as that curve originally had overpasses built into it to accommodate a road continuing west. Not sure if they actually removed those overpasses or just filled them in with dirt and they're still hidden down there or not.

The reason for the awkward looking interchange with the 303/30 is because in the long-long-long term plans, the 303 continues to the southwest. So that's why it's really oblong in design, because it's basically a Y coming from the southwest and splitting to the 303 North and 30 East.

As far as I know, the extension of SR30 from the 202 to I-17 is still in the cards and in the plans, but that will be a later phase. Phase 1 is the 303/202 section. I am not sure exactly where the funding status is right now (the tax that's funded the entire system since 1985 expires next year) but I do know from all the documents I've seen, SR30 is basically "next in line" for significant funding if that tax gets extended and will get underway within the next 3 years if it does indeed get the funding. Right now the last big projects that are funded are the Broadway Curve (expected to be done next year) and the I-17 reversible lanes going up Black Canyon.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: pderocco on September 03, 2023, 08:44:21 PM
So just to clarify based on what I've seen. Yes, the original plan for I-10 coming in from the west was to be much closer to this alignment and to interchange with I-17 at the Durango Curve. This is why at the Durango Curve, the WB/NB curve is lower than the SB/EB curve, as that curve originally had overpasses built into it to accommodate a road continuing west. Not sure if they actually removed those overpasses or just filled them in with dirt and they're still hidden down there or not.
In the Google Earth 1992 imagery, the outer curve looks freshly paved, so perhaps they had just rebuilt it.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on September 04, 2023, 07:10:52 PM
So just to clarify based on what I've seen. Yes, the original plan for I-10 coming in from the west was to be much closer to this alignment and to interchange with I-17 at the Durango Curve. This is why at the Durango Curve, the WB/NB curve is lower than the SB/EB curve, as that curve originally had overpasses built into it to accommodate a road continuing west. Not sure if they actually removed those overpasses or just filled them in with dirt and they're still hidden down there or not.
In the Google Earth 1992 imagery, the outer curve looks freshly paved, so perhaps they had just rebuilt it.

I went back on Historic Aerials and it looks like it changed between 1972 and 1973. In the 72 image you can clearly see the two bridges and in 73 they're gone. They're not very high resolution obviously, so it's hard to tell if they actually tore them out or just "filled" them in.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Occidental Tourist on September 06, 2023, 04:51:57 AM
I'm pretty sure they just filled them in:

(https://i.imgur.com/GT1Zr8m.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/BhsqRPa.jpg)
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: The Ghostbuster on September 06, 2023, 12:02:25 PM
Hopefully, when they construct AZ 30, they give it exit numbers based on its actual mileage, and not the goofy exit numbers that can be found on Interstate 17 and AZ 303.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: DJStephens on September 07, 2023, 11:31:51 AM
I'm pretty sure they just filled them in:

(https://i.imgur.com/GT1Zr8m.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/BhsqRPa.jpg)
So I-10 / I-17 WB to I-10 WB was originally supposed to be a Left Exit.   Maybe by '73 the decision heads had already settled on the further N Papago alignment.   
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: The Ghostbuster on September 07, 2023, 11:35:53 AM
I'm not surprised. Left-hand exits used to be the norm for a lot of freeway interchanges.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on September 07, 2023, 04:29:06 PM
Hopefully, when they construct AZ 30, they give it exit numbers based on its actual mileage, and not the goofy exit numbers that can be found on Interstate 17 and AZ 303.

Depends on how much of AZ 30 is built, and which section(s) are built first.

Loop 303 originally had mile markers that started just south of I-10 and went up to the current Happy Valley Parkway interchange. ADOT added 100 to all the mile markers (and exit numbers) in anticipation of a future southern extension.

Most of the other state routes in the Phoenix area (24, 51, 101, 202) go from Mile 0 or Mile 1 to whatever the length of the highway is. I-17 inherited its mile markers from when it was AZ 69.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Concrete Bob on September 07, 2023, 11:50:59 PM
Take a look at the fifth picture in the link below to see how I-10 would have split off west at the Durango Curve.  The photo shows one of the original overpasses that would have carried I-10 westbound traffic under the I-17 southbound to I-10 eastbound lanes:

https://www.azcentral.com/picture-gallery/travel/arizona/road-trips/2017/04/18/phoenix-area-freeway-history/100619786/
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: DJStephens on September 10, 2023, 09:26:05 PM
Take a look at the fifth picture in the link below to see how I-10 would have split off west at the Durango Curve.  The photo shows one of the original overpasses that would have carried I-10 westbound traffic under the I-17 southbound to I-10 eastbound lanes:

https://www.azcentral.com/picture-gallery/travel/arizona/road-trips/2017/04/18/phoenix-area-freeway-history/100619786/

The aerial, dated 1963, shows the 17 where it made a significant turn at the Durango Curve.  The Broadway Curve, is on 10, and is sort of the opposite corner of the downtown freeway complex.  The aerials in the AZ Republic article clearly show the shortage of Freeways during the early growth decades of Phoenix.   
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on September 11, 2023, 04:16:42 AM
Take a look at the fifth picture in the link below to see how I-10 would have split off west at the Durango Curve.  The photo shows one of the original overpasses that would have carried I-10 westbound traffic under the I-17 southbound to I-10 eastbound lanes:

https://www.azcentral.com/picture-gallery/travel/arizona/road-trips/2017/04/18/phoenix-area-freeway-history/100619786/

The aerial, dated 1963, shows the 17 where it made a significant turn at the Durango Curve.  The Broadway Curve, is on 10, and is sort of the opposite corner of the downtown freeway complex.  The aerials in the AZ Republic article clearly show the shortage of Freeways during the early growth decades of Phoenix.

I'm not sure what you are attempting to clarify here, as the Broadway curve wasn't mentioned in the post you quoted. The original intent was for the E-W portion of what is now I-17 was supposed to simply be I-10, with I-17 starting at the Durango curve and extending to the north. The original interchange built at what is now the "Split" by Sky Harbor originally had the through-lanes continue west, not turn north as they do now. The plan was for what is now the 51 to start there. When everything got shuffled around in the 70's and they moved the I-10 alignment to the current layout, they filled in the bridges at the Durango curve, and ultimately in the 80's tore down and reconfigured the Split to the configuration it has today.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: The Ghostbuster on September 11, 2023, 11:52:37 AM
If the original Interstate 10 alignment in the Phoenix area had been constructed as proposed, would it have taken as long to construct as the realignment? After all, existing Interstate 10 in Phoenix wasn't completed until August 10, 1990.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: brad2971 on September 11, 2023, 07:45:14 PM
If the original Interstate 10 alignment in the Phoenix area had been constructed as proposed, would it have taken as long to construct as the realignment? After all, existing Interstate 10 in Phoenix wasn't completed until August 10, 1990.

The eventual alignment of I-10, and the controversy over "helicoil" interchanges, can be interpreted simply as the Arizona DOT and metro Phoenix taking its time to get I-10 right. End result is the 8-10 lane (not including auxiliary lanes) work of fine engineering you see today, with up to 16 lanes (6+2 HOV in each direction) through the Broadway curve starting next year.

They COULD have built it on the initial alignment, and very likely would have built it sooner. At the same time, the whole of I-10 from Buckeye to downtown Phoenix would have looked today like what we see on I-17 from the Durango Curve to I-10, and that would have been...inadequate to say the least.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on December 10, 2023, 02:27:50 AM
Worth noting that during construction on the Broadway Curve project, some WB I-10 traffic is shifted over to the future "C/D" lanes from Broadway Rd over to just short of 40th St. They've got a "lane split" both directions so they can build the supports for the future SR143 flyovers in the center. Also quite a few of the sign gantries have gone up. Most still without signage, but you're starting to get an idea of what the finished product will look like next year.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ztonyg on December 11, 2023, 06:52:53 AM
Once the Broadway Curve project is complete, something needs to be done about the "mini stack" between I-10 / AZ 51 / Loop 202.

The "mini stack" seems to be the biggest choke point in that general area and is becoming a choke point during off peak hours.

The highest trafficked movement on the "mini stack" seems to be from W/B Loop 202 to W/B I-10 and the current 2 lane offramp configuration (with the lanes ending rather quickly requiring a merge once onto I-10) is absolutely inadequate for the traffic that flows through there.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on December 11, 2023, 06:44:44 PM
Once the Broadway Curve project is complete, something needs to be done about the "mini stack" between I-10 / AZ 51 / Loop 202.

The "mini stack" seems to be the biggest choke point in that general area and is becoming a choke point during off peak hours.

The highest trafficked movement on the "mini stack" seems to be from W/B Loop 202 to W/B I-10 and the current 2 lane offramp configuration (with the lanes ending rather quickly requiring a merge once onto I-10) is absolutely inadequate for the traffic that flows through there.

The Maricopa Association of Governments is way ahead of you. (https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=750591413770813&set=a.267128198783806)
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on December 11, 2023, 10:01:39 PM
Once the Broadway Curve project is complete, something needs to be done about the "mini stack" between I-10 / AZ 51 / Loop 202.

The "mini stack" seems to be the biggest choke point in that general area and is becoming a choke point during off peak hours.

The highest trafficked movement on the "mini stack" seems to be from W/B Loop 202 to W/B I-10 and the current 2 lane offramp configuration (with the lanes ending rather quickly requiring a merge once onto I-10) is absolutely inadequate for the traffic that flows through there.

The Maricopa Association of Governments is way ahead of you. (https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=750591413770813&set=a.267128198783806)

Saw that last week. I do wonder what the options would be. The lanes cutting down on WB-10 just past the 202 merge can't really easily be addressed without a widening of the Deck Park Tunnel. Which is, to put it mildly, not realistic.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Plutonic Panda on December 11, 2023, 11:31:08 PM
In Arizona, I’d say it’s realistic. Most states couldn’t even propose something like the South Mountain Freeway, an eight lane freeway for almost 30 miles with no tolls. ADOT built it in a couple years. I’d say they could widen the tunnel easier than they could widen I-17 in Phoenix.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on December 12, 2023, 08:03:18 AM
Once the Broadway Curve project is complete, something needs to be done about the "mini stack" between I-10 / AZ 51 / Loop 202.

The "mini stack" seems to be the biggest choke point in that general area and is becoming a choke point during off peak hours.

The highest trafficked movement on the "mini stack" seems to be from W/B Loop 202 to W/B I-10 and the current 2 lane offramp configuration (with the lanes ending rather quickly requiring a merge once onto I-10) is absolutely inadequate for the traffic that flows through there.

The Maricopa Association of Governments is way ahead of you. (https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=750591413770813&set=a.267128198783806)

Saw that last week. I do wonder what the options would be. The lanes cutting down on WB-10 just past the 202 merge can't really easily be addressed without a widening of the Deck Park Tunnel. Which is, to put it mildly, not realistic.

The answer is the Tres Rios freeway. Motorists who use that freeway will be encouraged to take the I-17 route past downtown rather than using the Deck Park Tunnel.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on December 12, 2023, 10:30:02 PM
In Arizona, I’d say it’s realistic. Most states couldn’t even propose something like the South Mountain Freeway, an eight lane freeway for almost 30 miles with no tolls. ADOT built it in a couple years. I’d say they could widen the tunnel easier than they could widen I-17 in Phoenix.

Based on how the Deck Park Tunnel is constructed, there is no way to widen it in place. You would have to completely close it, demolish it, and build it wider. Getting the Tres Rios going ASAP with the connection to I-17 at the Durango Curve would be the better overall solution to relieve the traffic going through downtown and the tunnel.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on January 02, 2024, 10:58:40 AM
The deck park tunnel sees over a quarter of a million vehicles a day. I-17 at Central avenue sees just 117,000. (https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/156940ac2514466bbaafc3792b82f333/page/AADT-Dashboard/)

And, unlike the tunnel, I-17 has space for more lanes.

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ztonyg on January 02, 2024, 05:40:47 PM
The deck park tunnel sees over a quarter of a million vehicles a day. I-17 at Central avenue sees just 117,000. (https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/156940ac2514466bbaafc3792b82f333/page/AADT-Dashboard/)

And, unlike the tunnel, I-17 has space for more lanes.

Why is mainline I-10 routed through the tunnel then as opposed to over I-17 until the "stack" interchange with a 90 degree westward turn at that location instead of the "mini-stack"?
 
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: jgb191 on January 02, 2024, 06:29:41 PM
I don't know if the answer to my question has already been mentioned on this thread, but if so, feel free to provide the quote.

Is there a reason why Phoenix can't complete a continuous-circuit beltway or loop all around the city?  I'm seeing Highways 101, 202, and 303 on the map, but none of them enclose the circuit fully?  Are there any plans or propositions to complete any of the loops anytime in the foreseeable future?

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Bobby5280 on January 02, 2024, 06:36:53 PM
Quote from: jgb191
Is there a reason why Phoenix can't complete a continuous-circuit beltway or loop all around the city?

There are two big reasons: mountain ranges and tribal land.

The super-highway system in Phoenix is pretty decent, even if there isn't a neatly circular loop surrounding the metro. There are plans to build more super highways in the area.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on January 02, 2024, 06:39:15 PM
Is it really that hard to circle the metro areas with what is already there?  It certainly can be done mostly just stringing Loop 202 and Loop 101 together. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ztonyg on January 02, 2024, 06:47:13 PM
I don't know if the answer to my question has already been mentioned on this thread, but if so, feel free to provide the quote.

Is there a reason why Phoenix can't complete a continuous-circuit beltway or loop all around the city?  I'm seeing Highways 101, 202, and 303 on the map, but none of them enclose the circuit fully?  Are there any plans or propositions to complete any of the loops anytime in the foreseeable future?

One of the proposals for the Loop 202 South Mountain Freeway was to have it connect to I-10 where the western terminus of Loop 101 is. That plan would've obliterated the downtown area of Tolleson so it was decided that it was a non-starter. The current loop system works fairly well without a full 360 loop.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: The Ghostbuster on January 02, 2024, 07:11:48 PM
I think the mountains surrounding the Phoenix Metropolitain Area are what prevented a full 360-degree beltway from being constructed. If it were possible, I'd suggest extending Loop 303 eastward and then southward to have it connect it with Loop 101 around Exit 33 (N. 64th St.).
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on January 02, 2024, 07:18:14 PM
I think the mountains surrounding the Phoenix Metropolitain Area are what prevented a full 360-degree beltway from being constructed. If it were possible, I'd suggest extending Loop 303 eastward and then southward to have it connect it with Loop 101 around Exit 33 (N. 64th St.).

A lot of wealthy home and land owners would shoot that idea down fast.  Carefree and Cave Creek have lots of people with money/political influence.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on January 02, 2024, 07:20:52 PM
If it wasn't for the Salt River Indian Reservation, ADOT long ago probably would've built a freeway connecting Loop 101 in Scottsdale to 202 in Mesa.

They did consider having the South Mountain Freeway directly connect to Loop 101, but concluded it wasn't worth the extra cost.

But despite all of that, I have yet to find a city of Phoenix's size that has fewer traffic problems, especially in the east valley.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on January 02, 2024, 09:37:32 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/B7fltef.png)

Here's a map of the freeway plan drafted by Wilbur Smith and Associates published in the Arizona Republic on February 28, 1960. The route of today's future Tres Rios Freeway was the originally planned route of I-10. Also, the Superstition Freeway would have extended through South Mountain Village before looping back to Loop 101.


(https://i.imgur.com/htVCboS.png)

In this edition from February 13, 1985, we can see they were considering an "East Loop": SR 143 would've been extended North to link up with the cancelled Paradise Freeway.

Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on January 03, 2024, 06:36:08 AM
The deck park tunnel sees over a quarter of a million vehicles a day. I-17 at Central avenue sees just 117,000. (https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/156940ac2514466bbaafc3792b82f333/page/AADT-Dashboard/)

And, unlike the tunnel, I-17 has space for more lanes.

Why is mainline I-10 routed through the tunnel then as opposed to over I-17 until the "stack" interchange with a 90 degree westward turn at that location instead of the "mini-stack"?
Because the tunnel provides easy access to midtown while I-17 runs past a bunch of non-descript warehouses and car dealerships.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: pderocco on January 04, 2024, 12:19:59 AM
They could have made a loop out of 101 by renumbering the part of 202 west of Chandler to 101, and closing the gap by multiplexing 101 with I-10. Then, they could have multiplexed 202 with I-10 near downtown to make a loop out of that too. Then they'd have two intersecting loops. (Venn diagram?)

But why bother?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on January 06, 2024, 05:19:53 AM
The deck park tunnel sees over a quarter of a million vehicles a day. I-17 at Central avenue sees just 117,000. (https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/156940ac2514466bbaafc3792b82f333/page/AADT-Dashboard/)

And, unlike the tunnel, I-17 has space for more lanes.

Why is mainline I-10 routed through the tunnel then as opposed to over I-17 until the "stack" interchange with a 90 degree westward turn at that location instead of the "mini-stack"?

In the early days of planning the Phoenix freeway system, I-10 was supposed to come in from the west at the Durango Curve, and overpasses were built into I-17 at that location to accommodate. That would have been the end of I-17 instead of the current configuration where there's that 4 mile east/west section. What runs along the current I-10 was supposed to be a different freeway. Ultimately it was decided to bring I-10 in from California along the current route instead, so the bridges at the Durango Curve were either removed or filled in and the I-10/I-17 split was reconfigured to what we see today. This picture from the abandoned Arizona Roads website shows it well.

(https://arizonaroads.com/pics/urban1960.jpg)
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on January 06, 2024, 12:47:29 PM
The deck park tunnel sees over a quarter of a million vehicles a day. I-17 at Central avenue sees just 117,000. (https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/156940ac2514466bbaafc3792b82f333/page/AADT-Dashboard/)

And, unlike the tunnel, I-17 has space for more lanes.

Why is mainline I-10 routed through the tunnel then as opposed to over I-17 until the "stack" interchange with a 90 degree westward turn at that location instead of the "mini-stack"?

In the early days of planning the Phoenix freeway system, I-10 was supposed to come in from the west at the Durango Curve, and overpasses were built into I-17 at that location to accommodate. That would have been the end of I-17 instead of the current configuration where there's that 4 mile east/west section. What runs along the current I-10 was supposed to be a different freeway. Ultimately it was decided to bring I-10 in from California along the current route instead, so the bridges at the Durango Curve were either removed or filled in and the I-10/I-17 split was reconfigured to what we see today. This picture from the abandoned Arizona Roads website shows it well.

(https://arizonaroads.com/pics/urban1960.jpg)

How many other cities wound up building more freeways than were planned in the 1960s?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on January 06, 2024, 12:51:21 PM
The idea of having two freeways converging north of downtown Scottsdale is worth a laugh through modern lenses.  My house would have been in the ROW for the East Belt Expressway as it was right on the south bank of the Arizona Canal.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: ztonyg on January 07, 2024, 05:14:44 PM
The idea of having two freeways converging north of downtown Scottsdale is worth a laugh through modern lenses.  My house would have been in the ROW for the East Belt Expressway as it was right on the south bank of the Arizona Canal.

The town of Paradise Valley would be completely surrounded by freeways.

I do contend that the original routing of I-10 south of downtown would've been a much better routing traffic wise. The problem is that it seems that the majority of traffic in the mini stack is thru traffic that is required to exit from E/B I-10 to E/B Loop 202 and W/B Loop 202 to W/B I-10. This traffic is forced to exit onto 2 lane exit ramps (and in the case of the W/B traffic eventually merge left rather quickly as the ramp lanes end before 7th St. E/B I-10 to E/B Loop 202 and W/B Loop 202 to W/B I-10 should be the thru movement with at least 3 lanes in each direction + an HOV lane. An exit to stay on I-10 (while not ideal) wouldn't be awful traffic wise (especially with the I-17 and Loop 202 South Mountain Freeway as viable alternatives for thru traffic.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on January 07, 2024, 05:23:13 PM
Despite the freeway through Paradise Valley never being built the corridor of Lincoln was one of my favored cutoff roads.  I can definitely see what the planners had in mind. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on January 09, 2024, 12:09:17 AM
The idea of having two freeways converging north of downtown Scottsdale is worth a laugh through modern lenses.  My house would have been in the ROW for the East Belt Expressway as it was right on the south bank of the Arizona Canal.

The town of Paradise Valley would be completely surrounded by freeways.

I do contend that the original routing of I-10 south of downtown would've been a much better routing traffic wise. The problem is that it seems that the majority of traffic in the mini stack is thru traffic that is required to exit from E/B I-10 to E/B Loop 202 and W/B Loop 202 to W/B I-10. This traffic is forced to exit onto 2 lane exit ramps (and in the case of the W/B traffic eventually merge left rather quickly as the ramp lanes end before 7th St. E/B I-10 to E/B Loop 202 and W/B Loop 202 to W/B I-10 should be the thru movement with at least 3 lanes in each direction + an HOV lane. An exit to stay on I-10 (while not ideal) wouldn't be awful traffic wise (especially with the I-17 and Loop 202 South Mountain Freeway as viable alternatives for thru traffic.

I would like to think the SR 30, the faster it can be built (and the proposed extension from the I-17 Durango Curve over to the currently planned terminus at the L202 South Mountain gets green-lit and fast tracked) that SHOULD take a good bit of load off of I-10 between the Stack and the Mini-Stack. Starting to get into "fictional" territory but I personally would LOVE to see the current I-17 Durango Curve converted to basically end I-17 there, and have SR30 extend from the Split by Sky Harbor straight through as the original I-10 plans from 50+ years ago intended. That would REALLY emphasize SR 30 being a proper "I-10 alternate" for E/W travel.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: The Ghostbuster on January 09, 2024, 06:46:14 PM
It might be quite a while before construction of AZ 30 commences and is completed. I believe only the segment between Loop 303 and Loop 202 has a construction date (I believe it is 2026), and the AZ 85-to-Loop 303 and Loop 303-to-Interstate 17 segments have no construction dates yet. I also believe there needs to be a regional transportation sales tax extension or AZ 30 might not be constructed at all.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on January 09, 2024, 10:23:00 PM
It might be quite a while before construction of AZ 30 commences and is completed. I believe only the segment between Loop 303 and Loop 202 has a construction date (I believe it is 2026), and the AZ 85-to-Loop 303 and Loop 303-to-Interstate 17 segments have no construction dates yet. I also believe there needs to be a regional transportation sales tax extension or AZ 30 might not be constructed at all.

I think last I heard, the tax extension has gotten past the stupidity of the Legislature, not sure if it requires a public vote or not. If so, wouldn't at all shocked for the same people who fought it in the Legislature try to completely destroy it at the ballot box. Same people who scream "cut taxes, no taxes" are the same ones who will turn at the flip of a coin and say "wow, our roads suck so bad, see, the other party is terrible at their jobs! Vote us back in!"
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on January 12, 2024, 11:17:39 PM
Came across something I haven't seen mentioned here yet. I'm sure most around the Valley know that the current configuration of the US60/Loop 303 interchange is "less than optimal" and has really bad backups. ADOT has done another study and have developed short-term and long-term plans for the interchange.

https://azdot.gov/projects/central-district-projects/us-60-loop-303-traffic-interchange-improvements

Short term seems pretty straight forward (double exit lanes from NB 303 to 60, 3 left turn lanes to NB/WB Grand Ave, and also continuing the third lane on Grand WB up to 163rd Ave for a double right hand turn lane along with 3 lanes from SB 163rd to SB/EB Grand. Just a little slight adding of asphalt in a few places and restriping some lanes. I'm sure that will be better than what they've currently got.

Where you lose me in "what the hell" land is the proposed long-term solution. They propose keeping WB Grand where it is, but have EB swoop up and over the 303 (which is already quite elevated to go over the BNSF tracks) and back down on the other side, and then elevate over 163rd Ave. I feel like it's an insane amount of overkill and expense for something that could literally be solved for surely less money by having BNSF submerge their tracks to allow ramps to go over them. But they literally say in the Report that "Operating under the presumption that the BNSF will not allow any improvements within
their right-of-way, the study team proposes to construct southbound off-ramp and northbound on-ramp bridges over the BNSF and ultimately tie into SR 303L to the north."

Why the hell are the railroads THAT unwilling to do ANYTHING to help? I get not expecting BNSF to do it entirely on their own money, but can ADOT not offer to help with relocation costs? Yeah, submerging those tracks won't be cheap. But ADOT's alternative is an absolutely massive bridge likely 50-60+ feet in the air for an extended length with a really goofy configuration that I promise the "more life experienced" in Sun City will have zero clue how to navigate.

As someone who lives in the NW Valley it's insanely frustrating that there are so many traffic hinderances from those BNSF tracks and the answer is always "BNSF won't help so we gotta work around them" and either create substandard crossings (Greenway Rd crossing at BNSF is absolutely terrible) or force ADOT into exorbitant solutions that cost the taxpayers significantly more than if there were solutions involving depressing the tracks even partially.

Anyone have any insight into why the hell the railroads are so adamant that they won't move a single rail?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on January 26, 2024, 12:40:55 AM
When did ADOT start putting in those blue crests for Loop 101?

Also, why does the section of 202 north of Sky Harbor have a bunch of pavement seams running perpendicular to the road?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Scott5114 on January 27, 2024, 04:04:43 AM
When did ADOT start putting in those blue crests for Loop 101?

Those came with the road when it opened. The new ones are the black and white ones, unless something changed recently and I haven't heard about it.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on January 27, 2024, 01:36:05 PM
On the lighter side of things: ADOT bought some property in Avondale for the construction of the Tres Rios Freeway only to find they had a tresspasser who went by the name of Pixie.  (https://azdot.gov/adot-blog/pigs-tale-about-adot-rescue-mission)
(https://i.imgur.com/ZpMsIEj.jpeg)

It took them the better part of two months and the assistance of local rescue organizations to trap Pixie and bring her to a better home.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on January 27, 2024, 03:17:01 PM
When did ADOT start putting in those blue crests for Loop 101?

Also, why does the section of 202 north of Sky Harbor have a bunch of pavement seams running perpendicular to the road?

The blue 101 signs are the originals. The Loops originally had unique colors for their signs but ultimately the colors never held up to the sun and faded, so ADOT went with the standard black lettering on a white logo. The 101 was blue logo, 202 was red/burgundy logo, and the 303 was inverted black logo with white lettering. Overall the blue ones held up the best, but they've been getting phased out as signage gets replaced.

As for the 202, that particular section is the oldest section of the 202, opening around 1990. The current asphalt is about 20 years old if the Historic Aerials data is correct, so that pavement is also among the oldest in the Valley. It's been patched and crack-sealed but it probably is in need of replacement. Since ADOT seems to be phasing out the rubberized asphalt and going back to concrete, I'd say this section is a good candidate to get that treatment sooner than later.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Max Rockatansky on January 27, 2024, 03:52:51 PM
I have a blue Loop 101, brown 202 and black 303 all in my garage:

https://flic.kr/p/SxYQUW

https://flic.kr/p/2kkRWn5

https://flic.kr/p/RRizgU
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on January 27, 2024, 06:26:05 PM
When did ADOT start putting in those blue crests for Loop 101?

Also, why does the section of 202 north of Sky Harbor have a bunch of pavement seams running perpendicular to the road?

The blue 101 signs are the originals. The Loops originally had unique colors for their signs but ultimately the colors never held up to the sun and faded, so ADOT went with the standard black lettering on a white logo. The 101 was blue logo, 202 was red/burgundy logo, and the 303 was inverted black logo with white lettering. Overall the blue ones held up the best, but they've been getting phased out as signage gets replaced.

As for the 202, that particular section is the oldest section of the 202, opening around 1990. The current asphalt is about 20 years old if the Historic Aerials data is correct, so that pavement is also among the oldest in the Valley. It's been patched and crack-sealed but it probably is in need of replacement. Since ADOT seems to be phasing out the rubberized asphalt and going back to concrete, I'd say this section is a good candidate to get that treatment sooner than later.

But why are the cracks almost perfectly perpendicular to the road? It's like the road was made out of a series of rectangular tiles laid out next to each other.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on January 28, 2024, 05:31:00 PM
When did ADOT start putting in those blue crests for Loop 101?

Also, why does the section of 202 north of Sky Harbor have a bunch of pavement seams running perpendicular to the road?

The blue 101 signs are the originals. The Loops originally had unique colors for their signs but ultimately the colors never held up to the sun and faded, so ADOT went with the standard black lettering on a white logo. The 101 was blue logo, 202 was red/burgundy logo, and the 303 was inverted black logo with white lettering. Overall the blue ones held up the best, but they've been getting phased out as signage gets replaced.

As for the 202, that particular section is the oldest section of the 202, opening around 1990. The current asphalt is about 20 years old if the Historic Aerials data is correct, so that pavement is also among the oldest in the Valley. It's been patched and crack-sealed but it probably is in need of replacement. Since ADOT seems to be phasing out the rubberized asphalt and going back to concrete, I'd say this section is a good candidate to get that treatment sooner than later.

But why are the cracks almost perfectly perpendicular to the road? It's like the road was made out of a series of rectangular tiles laid out next to each other.

Actually I'd never noticed until you mentioned it, looking on Google Maps I see exactly what you're talking about. Going back through Google Earth historical data, the asphalt was laid down in 2005, then in 2009 the 202 got widened through that whole section from I-10 to the 101 and it's after that project that the "cuts" were there. Water drainage or something maybe?
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: pderocco on January 29, 2024, 10:54:34 PM
I think it's due to some paving technique that involves laying down a bunch of asphalt, rolling it flat out to a boundary, then doing another section in the same manner, instead of doing it continuously. At first, it looks fine, but eventually, after years of thermal contraction and expansion, it develops cracks at the weakest point, which is where the sections met. I could be wrong, but I've seen that in many places on two-lane roads. Driving them is annoying, because the constant thumping.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: kernals12 on January 29, 2024, 11:27:35 PM
I think it's due to some paving technique that involves laying down a bunch of asphalt, rolling it flat out to a boundary, then doing another section in the same manner, instead of doing it continuously. At first, it looks fine, but eventually, after years of thermal contraction and expansion, it develops cracks at the weakest point, which is where the sections met. I could be wrong, but I've seen that in many places on two-lane roads. Driving them is annoying, because the constant thumping.

I can't think of any more sensible explanation so I'll take yours.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on January 30, 2024, 10:17:54 PM
I think it's due to some paving technique that involves laying down a bunch of asphalt, rolling it flat out to a boundary, then doing another section in the same manner, instead of doing it continuously. At first, it looks fine, but eventually, after years of thermal contraction and expansion, it develops cracks at the weakest point, which is where the sections met. I could be wrong, but I've seen that in many places on two-lane roads. Driving them is annoying, because the constant thumping.

Honestly I'm not sure what the deal is. It almost looks like in old Google Street View shots that they're very deliberate, straight cuts. They don't really "worm" like they're random cracking and they are only like 20 feet apart almost in a perfect pattern. So IDK what the deal is.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: DJStephens on January 31, 2024, 04:41:31 PM
When did ADOT start putting in those blue crests for Loop 101?

Also, why does the section of 202 north of Sky Harbor have a bunch of pavement seams running perpendicular to the road?

The blue 101 signs are the originals. The Loops originally had unique colors for their signs but ultimately the colors never held up to the sun and faded, so ADOT went with the standard black lettering on a white logo. The 101 was blue logo, 202 was red/burgundy logo, and the 303 was inverted black logo with white lettering. Overall the blue ones held up the best, but they've been getting phased out as signage gets replaced.

As for the 202, that particular section is the oldest section of the 202, opening around 1990. The current asphalt is about 20 years old if the Historic Aerials data is correct, so that pavement is also among the oldest in the Valley. It's been patched and crack-sealed but it probably is in need of replacement. Since ADOT seems to be phasing out the rubberized asphalt and going back to concrete, I'd say this section is a good candidate to get that treatment sooner than later.

But why are the cracks almost perfectly perpendicular to the road? It's like the road was made out of a series of rectangular tiles laid out next to each other.
    The original pavements on the loops was concrete.  The "rubberized" asphalt overlays were done later, believe done mostly in an attempt at noise reduction.   110-115 degree heat in the summer months is not friendly to these overlays.  Am of belief diamond milling concrete pavements is becoming more commonplace, as the technology has advanced, so that rubberized overlays, due to their degradation over time, will become a non-starter.   Believe they, meaning ADOT, removed the overlay, on a stretch of I-10 on the west side of Tucson in recent years.  There must have been other removals. 
     There is next to no de-icing chemicals used on Maricopa County roads, so there are literally no degradation due to those chemicals.   
     The "perpendicular" saw cuts, are for expansion and contraction, which in southern Arizona is likely more than other locales.   Again this is due to the 110-115 degree seasonal heat. Am of belief that they used continously reinforced concrete on the loops, rather than "traditional" longitudinal slabs used in the past, meaning in the sixties and seventies.   
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on January 31, 2024, 07:25:21 PM
When did ADOT start putting in those blue crests for Loop 101?

Also, why does the section of 202 north of Sky Harbor have a bunch of pavement seams running perpendicular to the road?

The blue 101 signs are the originals. The Loops originally had unique colors for their signs but ultimately the colors never held up to the sun and faded, so ADOT went with the standard black lettering on a white logo. The 101 was blue logo, 202 was red/burgundy logo, and the 303 was inverted black logo with white lettering. Overall the blue ones held up the best, but they've been getting phased out as signage gets replaced.

As for the 202, that particular section is the oldest section of the 202, opening around 1990. The current asphalt is about 20 years old if the Historic Aerials data is correct, so that pavement is also among the oldest in the Valley. It's been patched and crack-sealed but it probably is in need of replacement. Since ADOT seems to be phasing out the rubberized asphalt and going back to concrete, I'd say this section is a good candidate to get that treatment sooner than later.

But why are the cracks almost perfectly perpendicular to the road? It's like the road was made out of a series of rectangular tiles laid out next to each other.
    The original pavements on the loops was concrete.  The "rubberized" asphalt overlays were done later, believe done mostly in an attempt at noise reduction.   110-115 degree heat in the summer months is not friendly to these overlays.  Am of belief diamond milling concrete pavements is becoming more commonplace, as the technology has advanced, so that rubberized overlays, due to their degradation over time, will become a non-starter.   Believe they, meaning ADOT, removed the overlay, on a stretch of I-10 on the west side of Tucson in recent years.  There must have been other removals. 
     There is next to no de-icing chemicals used on Maricopa County roads, so there are literally no degradation due to those chemicals.   
     The "perpendicular" saw cuts, are for expansion and contraction, which in southern Arizona is likely more than other locales.   Again this is due to the 110-115 degree seasonal heat. Am of belief that they used continously reinforced concrete on the loops, rather than "traditional" longitudinal slabs used in the past, meaning in the sixties and seventies.

They've done a decent bit of rubberized asphalt removal over the last couple years around Phoenix. I-17 from Metrocenter up to the 101 had it all removed and they diamond milled the concrete underneath. Also the 101 widening from I-17 over to Scottsdale also didn't have any asphalt put back down when they did the widening project, they left the concrete. So they're definitely phasing it out.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: KeithE4Phx on February 01, 2024, 10:24:41 PM
Not a freeway, but ADOT is finally cleaning up the mess that is Main St./Apache Trail in "far-east" Mesa, officially-but-unsigned US 60X.  The work, from Sossaman Rd. to Meridian Rd. (the Maricopa/Pinal County Line) will take two years.  After completion, the road will be turned over to MCDOT.

Unfortunately, ADOT has no control over the dilapidated condition of the many run-down businesses, trailer parks, crack-house motels, etc. along the highway, which have been a blight for decades.

https://ktar.com/story/5560194/main-street-mesa-roadway-improvements-resurfacing-construction/
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on February 02, 2024, 06:44:55 PM
Not a freeway, but ADOT is finally cleaning up the mess that is Main St./Apache Trail in "far-east" Mesa, officially-but-unsigned US 60X.  The work, from Sossaman Rd. to Meridian Rd. (the Maricopa/Pinal County Line) will take two years.  After completion, the road will be turned over to MCDOT.

Unfortunately, ADOT has no control over the dilapidated condition of the many run-down businesses, trailer parks, crack-house motels, etc. along the highway, which have been a blight for decades.

https://ktar.com/story/5560194/main-street-mesa-roadway-improvements-resurfacing-construction/

That entire area has been in decline for a long time, especially since US 60 got taken off of there and moved to the Superstition when it opened all the way out in 1992. It used to be THE way from Phoenix out to the copper towns east of the Valley. Once the Superstition opened, the traffic volume tanked and thus the businesses lost 80% of their customer base.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: pderocco on February 02, 2024, 07:07:24 PM
That entire area has been in decline for a long time, especially since US 60 got taken off of there and moved to the Superstition when it opened all the way out in 1992. It used to be THE way from Phoenix out to the copper towns east of the Valley. Once the Superstition opened, the traffic volume tanked and thus the businesses lost 80% of their customer base.

Since 1992, that whole area has infilled pretty thoroughly, and there's a much larger population to support businesses along the old US-60 than back then. And I expect that will continue, since it isn't completely full.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: Sonic99 on February 03, 2024, 06:37:18 AM
That entire area has been in decline for a long time, especially since US 60 got taken off of there and moved to the Superstition when it opened all the way out in 1992. It used to be THE way from Phoenix out to the copper towns east of the Valley. Once the Superstition opened, the traffic volume tanked and thus the businesses lost 80% of their customer base.

Since 1992, that whole area has infilled pretty thoroughly, and there's a much larger population to support businesses along the old US-60 than back then. And I expect that will continue, since it isn't completely full.

It's a different type of business though. Lots of what is "wasting away" out there are hotels, motels, stuff that depended on passing traffic. It's shifting everything away from "passers-by" and converting to "the people who live around here" types of businesses that this area is struggling with. Plus the "people who live around here" are more than likely either retirees or less-than-wealthy people, which doesn't necessarily help sustain year-round growth.
Title: Re: Phoenix Area Highways
Post by: DJStephens on February 20, 2024, 05:04:30 PM
That entire area has been in decline for a long time, especially since US 60 got taken off of there and moved to the Superstition when it opened all the way out in 1992. It used to be THE way from Phoenix out to the copper towns east of the Valley. Once the Superstition opened, the traffic volume tanked and thus the businesses lost 80% of their customer base.

Since 1992, that whole area has infilled pretty thoroughly, and there's a much larger population to support businesses along the old US-60 than back then. And I expect that will continue, since it isn't completely full.
Used to attend swap meets at the old Firebird Raceway in the mid-late nineties.  Stayed at the KOA campground in Apache Junction then.  At that time, there was open space between AJ and the main part of the Phoenix metro.  The Superstition was already open.   It has been widened several times since it first opened.