New major league sports teams

Started by Poiponen13, February 17, 2023, 10:42:01 AM

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Flint1979

In order to support both an NHL and NBA team I think the market size has to be pretty big. Smaller markets would never be able to support both.


Flint1979

Denver is the smallest metro area that has both an NBA and NHL team. Denver's metro has a population of right around 3 million. Houston of course is the largest metro area without an NHL team but would Houston really support a team. They have the Rockets and the Rockets finished 28th in NBA attendance this past season I guess it doesn't help that the Rockets were tied for the 2nd worst record in the NBA with their neighbors to the west in San Antonio.

The Pistons were the worst team in the NBA and finished 12th in attendance very surprised there because the Pistons are far and away the worst team and the least followed team in Detroit. The arena is fairly new and the Red Wings finished 4th in the NHL in attendance. The Wings haven't made the playoffs in 7 years now after making it for 30 of 32 years between the 1983-84 season and the 2015-16 season as well as 25 straight years between the 1990-91 season and 2015-16 season. When teams in Detroit are winning though the fans show up, when they are losing they stay home.

GaryV

Quote from: Flint1979 on April 25, 2023, 09:07:56 AM
When teams in Detroit are winning though the fans show up, when they are losing they a few of them stay home.

FIFY. I'm always surprised at how many fans continue to support the Tigers and Lions.

Flint1979



Quote from: GaryV on April 25, 2023, 09:11:58 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 25, 2023, 09:07:56 AM
When teams in Detroit are winning though the fans show up, when they are losing they a few of them stay home.

FIFY. I'm always surprised at how many fans continue to support the Tigers and Lions.

The Lions are a little understandable because they only have eight games a year to draw from plus the preseason games. The Tigers though puzzle me I've tried to like that team and it's just impossible. I like their uniforms though their home uniform with that old English D is pretty nice.

Henry

MLB is taking Las Vegas out of the running for an expansion franchise, as the Oakland A's are slated to move there soon, but Rob Manfred is touting many other cities for expansion. They include:


  • Charlotte
  • Montreal
  • Nashville
  • Portland
  • Salt Lake City

Of course, he will not proceed until Tampa resolves its own ballpark situation. But from what I'm hearing, it should move along smoother than the now-dead Howard Terminal plans in Oakland.
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

Flint1979

In order to sustain a MLB franchise you have to draw from 81 home games. That's a lot of games to draw from on a regular basis. The teams that draw well on a regular basis are established in their homes like Boston, New York, Detroit, Chicago, Los Angeles and so on. I don't think expansion is going to be a good thing. You have so many people that have moved all over the country that already have had a favorite team growing up in another area that who's going to switch their team just because they happen to live somewhere else at that time? Charlotte would be one that would work in my opinion, it's not too close to Atlanta where it'll interfere too much with the Braves fan base and it's not even close to being anywhere near DC to interfere with the Nationals and Orioles. Nashville might work too as Tennesee has a large population but doesn't have a MLB team and it's not too close to another teams fan base to interfere there either.

You couldn't go put a team in Grand Rapids, Michigan and think that you are going to draw Tigers fans that have been fans of that team for generations. Columbus, Ohio would be another stupid location not that it's been mentioned but it's a good example of being in another markets fan base with Cleveland and Cincinnati being nearby. It has to be well thought out. I think Montreal could make another push for it with the right ownership and a new stadium.

mgk920

Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on April 25, 2023, 07:05:24 AM
I wonder how weather and climate would impact the Las Vegas A's. The Golden Knights and Raiders mostly play in the fall and winter, when (I'm guessing) the weather is nicer than in the summer.  The A's having to play in the blazing hot summer when much of their fan base, especially snowbirds, will be in cooler (but still quite warm) climes elsewhere.

That is kind of like what the Diamondbacks have to face every summer, too.  At least their stadium has a roof that can offer them some protection from that weather.

Mike

KCRoadFan

Quote from: Flint1979 on April 26, 2023, 11:45:04 AM
Nashville might work too as Tennesee has a large population but doesn't have a MLB team and it's not too close to another teams fan base to interfere there either.

I just did the calculations from the nearest major-league cities - Nashville is 248 miles from Atlanta, 272 miles from Cincinnati, and 309 miles from St. Louis. Is the current fan-base there weighted toward any one of those teams, or is it just about an even mix?

kphoger

Quote from: KCRoadFan on April 28, 2023, 01:38:56 PM

Quote from: Flint1979 on April 26, 2023, 11:45:04 AM
Nashville might work too as Tennesee has a large population but doesn't have a MLB team and it's not too close to another teams fan base to interfere there either.

I just did the calculations from the nearest major-league cities - Nashville is 248 miles from Atlanta, 272 miles from Cincinnati, and 309 miles from St. Louis. Is the current fan-base there weighted toward any one of those teams, or is it just about an even mix?

Atlanta, but I don't know how heavily weighted.  However, the dividing line between Atlanta and Saint Louis is just to the west of the city.

https://www.vividseats.com/blog/most-popular-mlb-teams-by-state-county/map
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triplemultiplex

My experience from the inside of TN sports bars was that Memphis had Cardinal games on; the rest of the state had Braves games.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

ilpt4u

Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 28, 2023, 04:17:43 PM
My experience from the inside of TN sports bars was that Memphis had Cardinal games on; the rest of the state had Braves games.
Memphis not only is not only downriver from STL...The Cardinals' AAA affiliate happens to be the Memphis Redbirds, so that is another connection

Scott5114

Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on April 25, 2023, 07:05:24 AM
I wonder how weather and climate would impact the Las Vegas A's. The Golden Knights and Raiders mostly play in the fall and winter, when (I'm guessing) the weather is nicer than in the summer.  The A's having to play in the blazing hot summer when much of their fan base, especially snowbirds, will be in cooler (but still quite warm) climes elsewhere may become an issue.

I imagine they'll just play at night, which would be more compatible with pulling in people from the Strip anyhow. Either that or they'll have a domed, climate controlled stadium.
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TheHighwayMan3561

#62
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2023, 07:14:58 PM
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on April 25, 2023, 07:05:24 AM
I wonder how weather and climate would impact the Las Vegas A's. The Golden Knights and Raiders mostly play in the fall and winter, when (I'm guessing) the weather is nicer than in the summer.  The A's having to play in the blazing hot summer when much of their fan base, especially snowbirds, will be in cooler (but still quite warm) climes elsewhere may become an issue.

I imagine they'll just play at night, which would be more compatible with pulling in people from the Strip anyhow. Either that or they'll have a domed, climate controlled stadium.

I think the latter. It'll pretty much be a requirement in my opinion. The Rangers ditched a 25-year old open air stadium for one with a retractable roof partly because of the summer temperatures..
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running

dvferyance

Quote from: KCRoadFan on April 28, 2023, 01:38:56 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 26, 2023, 11:45:04 AM
Nashville might work too as Tennesee has a large population but doesn't have a MLB team and it's not too close to another teams fan base to interfere there either.

I just did the calculations from the nearest major-league cities - Nashville is 248 miles from Atlanta, 272 miles from Cincinnati, and 309 miles from St. Louis. Is the current fan-base there weighted toward any one of those teams, or is it just about an even mix?
Would Nashville want a team? They would have to build a stadium for it and they are already building one for the Titans. I doubt the taxpayers there would want to pay for 2 stadiums at once. Put it in Memphis if you are going to have a team in Tennessee.

Flint1979

Quote from: KCRoadFan on April 28, 2023, 01:38:56 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 26, 2023, 11:45:04 AM
Nashville might work too as Tennesee has a large population but doesn't have a MLB team and it's not too close to another teams fan base to interfere there either.

I just did the calculations from the nearest major-league cities - Nashville is 248 miles from Atlanta, 272 miles from Cincinnati, and 309 miles from St. Louis. Is the current fan-base there weighted toward any one of those teams, or is it just about an even mix?
I'm not sure obviously just taking a guess but I always thought the western part of Tennessee was more geared toward the Cardinals and the eastern more geared toward the Braves but I could be wrong and don't know about the central part of the state around Nashville. Cincinnati makes some sense, Atlanta makes a little more sense. So I'd say it's probably an even mix.

hotdogPi

#65
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 30, 2023, 09:09:12 AM
Quote from: KCRoadFan on April 28, 2023, 01:38:56 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 26, 2023, 11:45:04 AM
Nashville might work too as Tennesee has a large population but doesn't have a MLB team and it's not too close to another teams fan base to interfere there either.

I just did the calculations from the nearest major-league cities - Nashville is 248 miles from Atlanta, 272 miles from Cincinnati, and 309 miles from St. Louis. Is the current fan-base there weighted toward any one of those teams, or is it just about an even mix?
I'm not sure obviously just taking a guess but I always thought the western part of Tennessee was more geared toward the Cardinals and the eastern more geared toward the Braves but I could be wrong and don't know about the central part of the state around Nashville. Cincinnati makes some sense, Atlanta makes a little more sense. So I'd say it's probably an even mix.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/24/upshot/facebook-baseball-map.html#6,35.139,-84.404

2014 data, paywalled.

I edited the post to add the paragraph below, but it didn't get submitted until after Flint1979 replied to me with two posts.

In 2014, if you split the state into fourths, the western fourth is Cardinals territory, and the eastern three fourths is Braves territory. Within Nashville and Memphis, there is a greater mix of other teams (sometimes enough to make Yankees first place likely due to transplants, albeit with a percentage in the 20s or high teens), but the Cardinals:Braves ratio doesn't change.
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

Flint1979

Quote from: 1 on April 30, 2023, 09:10:10 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 30, 2023, 09:09:12 AM
Quote from: KCRoadFan on April 28, 2023, 01:38:56 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 26, 2023, 11:45:04 AM
Nashville might work too as Tennesee has a large population but doesn't have a MLB team and it's not too close to another teams fan base to interfere there either.

I just did the calculations from the nearest major-league cities - Nashville is 248 miles from Atlanta, 272 miles from Cincinnati, and 309 miles from St. Louis. Is the current fan-base there weighted toward any one of those teams, or is it just about an even mix?
I'm not sure obviously just taking a guess but I always thought the western part of Tennessee was more geared toward the Cardinals and the eastern more geared toward the Braves but I could be wrong and don't know about the central part of the state around Nashville. Cincinnati makes some sense, Atlanta makes a little more sense. So I'd say it's probably an even mix.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/24/upshot/facebook-baseball-map.html#6,35.139,-84.404

2014 data, paywalled.
I couldn't see that one since I'm not subscribed to the NY Times but I did find this one, https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2011990-facebook-map-shows-county-by-county-breakdown-of-most-liked-mlb-teams

Flint1979

According to the bleacher report site I just posted it looks like I was correct with western TN going with the Cardinals and the eastern going with the Braves. However the Cardinals area in TN is smaller than I thought it would be, looks like most of the state is Braves fans.

Flint1979

I was looking at the map that I posted a few minutes ago and was looking at Utah. It's Yankees and Red Sox. That goes up into Idaho and Montana too. It's strange looking at these states that don't have teams it's like they are mostly Yankees fans by default.

hotdogPi

#69
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 30, 2023, 09:19:33 AM
I was looking at the map that I posted a few minutes ago and was looking at Utah. It's Yankees and Red Sox. That goes up into Idaho and Montana too. It's strange looking at these states that don't have teams it's like they are mostly Yankees fans by default.

Yankees first, Red Sox second is across the entire country as a background, overlaid by fanbases. The 2014 map I showed also has this phenomenon in non-DC-area Virginia. I don't know if Washington has expanded its fanbase in the nine years between then and now.

The New York Times map shows percentages for each of the top three places, and it can be seen even within fanbases for second and third choice. Yankees also edge out Cardinals in Memphis and Braves in Nashville (in the cities only), although with only 18-22%.
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

SectorZ


Flint1979

Quote from: 1 on April 30, 2023, 09:21:35 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 30, 2023, 09:19:33 AM
I was looking at the map that I posted a few minutes ago and was looking at Utah. It's Yankees and Red Sox. That goes up into Idaho and Montana too. It's strange looking at these states that don't have teams it's like they are mostly Yankees fans by default.

Yankees first, Red Sox second is across the entire country as a background, overlaid by fanbases. The 2014 map I showed also has this phenomenon in non-DC-area Virginia. I don't know if Washington has expanded its fanbase in the nine years between then and now.

The New York Times map shows percentages for each of the top three places, and it can be seen even within fanbases for second and third choice. Yankees also edge out Cardinals in Memphis and Braves in Nashville (in the cities only), although with only 18-22%.
Perhaps winning a World Series in 2019 helped them but then they kind of fell backwards after that with 3 straight last place finishes and they are in last place so far this year too. Oddly enough the Nationals scored the most runs in franchise history that year including Montreal and Bryce Harper was already in Philly by then go figure. But outside of Rendon, Turner, Soto and Kendrick I don't see what that lineup had perhaps just some timely hitting and the pitching wasn't bad I guess. But as far as a fan base I think it probably expanded a little more in the last 9 years.

Flint1979

Quote from: SectorZ on April 30, 2023, 09:40:17 AM
ESPN writer lobbying for a Mexico City MLB team

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/36312333/why-mexican-capital-faces-uphill-climb-landing-major-league-baseball-franchise
Well there is a large population there and we already have the Blue Jays in Canada but I would think that's enough. I think Charlotte, NC is the city that deserves a MLB team more than any city on the list and it's far enough from Atlanta that it won't effect their fan base too much.

Takumi

Quote from: Flint1979 on April 30, 2023, 09:41:29 AM
Quote from: 1 on April 30, 2023, 09:21:35 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 30, 2023, 09:19:33 AM
I was looking at the map that I posted a few minutes ago and was looking at Utah. It's Yankees and Red Sox. That goes up into Idaho and Montana too. It's strange looking at these states that don't have teams it's like they are mostly Yankees fans by default.

Yankees first, Red Sox second is across the entire country as a background, overlaid by fanbases. The 2014 map I showed also has this phenomenon in non-DC-area Virginia. I don't know if Washington has expanded its fanbase in the nine years between then and now.

The New York Times map shows percentages for each of the top three places, and it can be seen even within fanbases for second and third choice. Yankees also edge out Cardinals in Memphis and Braves in Nashville (in the cities only), although with only 18-22%.
Perhaps winning a World Series in 2019 helped them but then they kind of fell backwards after that with 3 straight last place finishes and they are in last place so far this year too. Oddly enough the Nationals scored the most runs in franchise history that year including Montreal and Bryce Harper was already in Philly by then go figure. But outside of Rendon, Turner, Soto and Kendrick I don't see what that lineup had perhaps just some timely hitting and the pitching wasn't bad I guess. But as far as a fan base I think it probably expanded a little more in the last 9 years.

Speaking as someone who lives in non-DC-area Virginia, no, not really. I see more Yankee, Red Sox, Oriole, Brave, and even Met fans than Nats fans, and many of the Nats fans I do meet moved down here from the DC suburbs. They are the embodiment of Northern Virginia, which causes resentment among some people in the rest of the state.
Quote from: Rothman on July 15, 2021, 07:52:59 AM
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skluth

Quote from: Takumi on April 30, 2023, 11:20:13 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 30, 2023, 09:41:29 AM
Quote from: 1 on April 30, 2023, 09:21:35 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 30, 2023, 09:19:33 AM
I was looking at the map that I posted a few minutes ago and was looking at Utah. It's Yankees and Red Sox. That goes up into Idaho and Montana too. It's strange looking at these states that don't have teams it's like they are mostly Yankees fans by default.

Yankees first, Red Sox second is across the entire country as a background, overlaid by fanbases. The 2014 map I showed also has this phenomenon in non-DC-area Virginia. I don't know if Washington has expanded its fanbase in the nine years between then and now.

The New York Times map shows percentages for each of the top three places, and it can be seen even within fanbases for second and third choice. Yankees also edge out Cardinals in Memphis and Braves in Nashville (in the cities only), although with only 18-22%.
Perhaps winning a World Series in 2019 helped them but then they kind of fell backwards after that with 3 straight last place finishes and they are in last place so far this year too. Oddly enough the Nationals scored the most runs in franchise history that year including Montreal and Bryce Harper was already in Philly by then go figure. But outside of Rendon, Turner, Soto and Kendrick I don't see what that lineup had perhaps just some timely hitting and the pitching wasn't bad I guess. But as far as a fan base I think it probably expanded a little more in the last 9 years.

Speaking as someone who lives in non-DC-area Virginia, no, not really. I see more Yankee, Red Sox, Oriole, Brave, and even Met fans than Nats fans, and many of the Nats fans I do meet moved down here from the DC suburbs. They are the embodiment of Northern Virginia, which causes resentment among some people in the rest of the state.

There were quite a few Mets fans in Tidewater when I lived there as the Norfolk Tides were the Mets AAA team. They changed to an Orioles affiliate my last year there so I don't know if those fans changed favorite teams. It's also about when the Nats moved from Montreal so I have no idea if they have a SE VA fan base.



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