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Do you still need to take P.E. to graduate?

Started by roadman65, March 10, 2023, 01:10:57 PM

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Molandfreak

Quote from: 1 on March 10, 2023, 07:44:04 PM
Regarding the PE exam: I haven't even taken the FE exam yet. It's a combination of being too scared to fail and not wanting to give Pearson money.
My mind immediately went to the PE exam, too.

I went to a charter school with no gym or PhyEd teacher, so no PhyEd was offered.
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chrismarion100

My school is required to take 9th grade PE and another gym-related class from 10-12 grades. some of them are Team Sports, Lifetime Fitness, Exercise/Weight Training, or PE 10/11. (I think that all of the options.)

vdeane

Wow, it's amazing how little PE (or gym class, as everyone called it) there is in many places.  At my high school, it was required all four years, although seniors playing a sport (don't recall if it was only varsity or not, but I want to say it was) could opt out of a quarter, so long as said quarter was during the season their sport was played, and it wasn't third quarter (which is the one with the square dancing unit).  9th and 10th grade are traditional PE, gender segregated and playing team sports.  11th and 12th grades have more options, including things like archery, orienteering, and power walking, mostly co-ed aside from the first unit.  All four years start with a unit of running that builds up to running a mile around the track.  I always HATED that unit (and was one of the last to finish each year, even being slower than the person with asthma).  Fortunately, grades for PE didn't count towards one's GPA, and class was every other day rather than (mostly) every day like everything else (science was every day with one of those having a double lab period, math was the same for 9th and 10th, simply everyday for 11th, and on the same schedule for 12th, five days out of a six day cycle; whether that was changing policy or a difference between grades, I'm not sure).
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

SD Mapman

Quote from: JayhawkCO on March 10, 2023, 04:22:01 PM
I think I took one quarter of gym in my entire high school career - basketball class. That's all that was required. I was plenty active back then so I didn't need the workout per se.
We only required a semester, I would usually complete the warmup laps several minutes before everyone else being a long-distance runner.

Funnily enough, my college required both a wellness class and an activity class (both 1-credit quarter classes). As a varsity athlete I got the activity credit from running, but I still had to do the wellness class. Some of my friends took Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, which would have been interesting, but I had to run very much miles.

On the other meaning of the thread title, we engineers indeed had to pass the FE to graduate. I don't see why more engineering programs haven't made it a requirement yet, you're probably going to aim for a PE anyway unless you end up in research.
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TheHighwayMan3561

I remember 10th grade being my last year of gym, so I think my school required 2 full credits of PE. That was also my final year of art, since AP classes were the only art classes offered after that.
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webny99

Quote from: vdeane on March 10, 2023, 10:00:14 PM
Wow, it's amazing how little PE (or gym class, as everyone called it) there is in many places.  At my high school, it was required all four years ...

This makes me feel a bit better, as that's exactly what I was thinking as well! It must be somewhat of a New York thing to require it through 12th grade.

US 89

#31
In Utah, the state required that we have two years of PE in high school, including one semester of health/wellness (entirely classroom based) and a semester of Fitness For Life (mixed classroom and activity). The remaining year could be filled however you wanted between the few classes they offered. I took Lifetime Activities, which was basically playing various sports outside or in the gym, along with some weightlifting when it was too cold to play outside and the gym was being used by another class. I enjoyed it.

You could get a semester of PE credit for each year you played a varsity sport, but by the time I was good enough to make the varsity golf team, I'd already finished the PE requirement.

I also had to take a semester of health in college as a 2-credit class. You could either do the lecture-only section or the lecture plus activity section. Not only was I happy to get the exercise in the activity section, but the lecture component was also easier than if I had done the lecture-only section.

Rothman

I don't remember what my requirements were.  My kids took PE.  Seemed like all four years of high school.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Jim

Like the other New Yorkers, I am pretty sure I took gym class every year K-12.  In high school we were on a 6-day class rotation, so had gym every other day.   I just assumed this was standard everywhere.

Someone mentioned swimming - I was through middle school well before they put on the addition with a pool in my district's middle school, so I never learned to swim.  I assume all middle schoolers learn swimming now.  There was not, and still is not, a pool at the local high school.

I was able to opt out of some units I didn't like (never wanted to play basketball for example, enough so that I'd fake injury or illness to avoid it) and, as scorekeeper for the baseball team, was able to spend gym class working on stats for the baseball team when we were doing something I really wanted to avoid.

I doubt they still do it, but at the time, we actually had a bowling unit each year in high school.  They'd bus us over to the bowling alley that's maybe 2 miles away, we'd pick out shoes and a ball, bowl a game, and get on the bus back to school.  It was a nice change from the usual.
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1995hoo

I find the comments about not having the same classes every day interesting because when I was in high school, you had the same six classes every day of the semester (or school year, if you didn't take any half-year classes) at the same time every day unless a day were shortened due to a late opening or early closing for snow.
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Scott5114

#35
Looking back on PE classes, I can't help but be incredibly frustrated at the sheer amount of potential that was squandered. There was too much "okay, today we're doing X!" without any actual education about it.

For example, when I was in middle school, there was a unit where they just turned us loose in the football players' weight room, with no explanation of proper form, how to avoid injuries, what exercises worked on which muscles, or how to build a comprehensive weightlifting routine. All of that would have been information that would have come in handy later in life, and I'd probably be a good decade or so ahead on my fitness goals if Coach Paulk had actually done his damn job for once. There was also absolutely no accommodation for anyone who was unable to lift the 45-lb barbell with no weights on it. (I made do by disassembling a broom and putting weights on the broomstick, which got me made fun of, but at least I got to bench something.)

Quote from: Jim on March 11, 2023, 08:03:22 AM
Someone mentioned swimming - I was through middle school well before they put on the addition with a pool in my district's middle school, so I never learned to swim.  I assume all middle schoolers learn swimming now.  There was not, and still is not, a pool at the local high school.

Same here, although I learned swimming through the Boy Scouts when I was in elementary school. I wish my school did have a pool, however; competitive swimming is probably the only sport I would have been any good at (though I'm not sure if I would have actually taken it up).

It is a little difficult for me to comprehend someone of adult age not being able to swim, although I suppose it makes some amount of sense if someone grew up without adequate facilities to swim in, like neighbors with a backyard pool or a nearby natural body of water. I am a little surprised that someone wouldn't pick up the skill after adulthood, though, if only for basic survival in an emergency situation.

Quote from: 1995hoo on March 11, 2023, 08:16:09 AM
I find the comments about not having the same classes every day interesting because when I was in high school, you had the same six classes every day of the semester (or school year, if you didn't take any half-year classes) at the same time every day unless a day were shortened due to a late opening or early closing for snow.

Same here, but even more so, as we didn't have any half-year classes except for the one year that was half Oklahoma History and half World History. (Yeah, there's equivalent amounts of material to cover in both of those. :rolleyes:)
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hotdogPi

So how essential are the FE and PE exams? I forgot to mention before that I thought that not that many jobs would require the FE exam because quite a lot of the exam is unrelated to transportation. I was also told that only 10% had passed the PE, and only one PE is required per project. However, I'm finding several jobs on LinkedIn that want FE completion.
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US 89

Oh, my high school schedule was super weird. Most people took 8 classes, but you could schedule a free period if you were a junior or senior. Monday, we'd have all 8 45-minute periods in order. Tuesday and Wednesday used what we called "block scheduling": Tuesday we'd have the first 5 periods in 75-minute classes, while Wednesday was the last three, starting with 8th and going backwards, with a built-in assembly or advisory time slot between 8th and 7th. Usually we got to leave at 1 or 1:35 instead of the usual 2:45 on those days. Thursday was all 45-minute classes, but starting with 8th and going backwards. Friday was normal and identical to Monday.

It made some sense though. By shuffling classes around, if you're often missing afternoons due to sports or other similar commitments, it at least tries to spread it across your schedule instead of always missing the same classes. Of course, if your commitments were always on the same day of the week, it didn't make a difference...

Big John

Unless the rules have changed, don't you have to wait 4 years after graduation to take the PE exam in most states?

jmacswimmer

Quote from: 1 on March 11, 2023, 09:13:11 AM
So how essential are the FE and PE exams? I forgot to mention before that I thought that not that many jobs would require the FE exam because quite a lot of the exam is unrelated to transportation. I was also told that only 10% had passed the PE, and only one PE is required per project. However, I'm finding several jobs on LinkedIn that want FE completion.

It seems to me like it varies widely based on both exact discipline & employer, but it's definitely something that will only benefit your career in the long run. My company encourages everyone to get licensed, reimburses all exam-related expenses once you pass, and gives a nice raise once you're officially licensed, so for me it was a no-brainer. I took the FE in October 2018 and then the PE in November 2022, and honestly the biggest hurdle to each is just getting to know the reference pdf's you'll be provided during the exam. I'd also note that just because I have my PE now doesn't mean I'm actually going to be using it or stamping anything for a long time still.

So it may not be essential per se, but depending on where you envision your career going (and depending on what incentives your company offers to get licensed) it definitely won't hurt to have it. As far as being scared of the exams as you noted in another post - don't be. There will be problems that you've never seen before, but the bigger test on the FE is being able to find the equations you need in the reference pdf in a timely manner versus having everything memorized going in.

Quote from: Big John on March 11, 2023, 09:40:37 AM
Unless the rules have changed, don't you have to wait 4 years after graduation to take the PE exam in most states?

With the PE converting to computer-based, more and more states are allowing you to take the exam whenever but then you still have to wait until you have 4 years of experience to officially apply for licensure. Maryland is not currently one of those states, so I had to wait until the 4-year mark to apply to the Maryland board, receive exam pre-approval, and finally schedule the exam.
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Rothman

Quote from: 1 on March 11, 2023, 09:13:11 AM
So how essential are the FE and PE exams? I forgot to mention before that I thought that not that many jobs would require the FE exam because quite a lot of the exam is unrelated to transportation. I was also told that only 10% had passed the PE, and only one PE is required per project. However, I'm finding several jobs on LinkedIn that want FE completion.
NYSDOT requires FE for its Assistant Engineer/Professional Engineer track, I believe.  However, passing PE helps promotions become nearly automatic.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Dirt Roads

Quote from: 1 on March 11, 2023, 09:13:11 AM
So how essential are the FE and PE exams? I forgot to mention before that I thought that not that many jobs would require the FE exam because quite a lot of the exam is unrelated to transportation. I was also told that only 10% had passed the PE, and only one PE is required per project. However, I'm finding several jobs on LinkedIn that want FE completion.

Gosh, I'm not the only one who went down this path when I saw the thread title.

vdeane

#42
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 11, 2023, 09:08:33 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 11, 2023, 08:16:09 AM
I find the comments about not having the same classes every day interesting because when I was in high school, you had the same six classes every day of the semester (or school year, if you didn't take any half-year classes) at the same time every day unless a day were shortened due to a late opening or early closing for snow.

Same here, but even more so, as we didn't have any half-year classes except for the one year that was half Oklahoma History and half World History. (Yeah, there's equivalent amounts of material to cover in both of those. :rolleyes:)
My school district operated on a six day cycle, with the exception of the middle school which used its own system of alternating A/B days and block scheduling (this started around when I was in sixth grade and that year they also had C1 and C2 days without blocks on alternating weeks; starting when I was in 7th grade, they got rid of C days because few people could keep track of them properly).  For high school, that amounts to 8 periods of classes and other things, most of which meet five of the six days; the remaining day is a "drop day" that is used either as a free period or as space to schedule "lab" classes or other things (free periods could be used to get help from a teacher in their office hours, go to the library, eat lunch, hang out, etc.; they even let people leave campus during periods 4-6 or arrive late/go home early with permission if they aligned at the start or end of the day).  The big exceptions were PE (three times a cycle, alternating days), study hall (opposite PE for freshmen and those with poor grades), science (every day, with one of those days being a lab block, so it actually met 7 out of 6 days), and certain math classes (not sure if they changed policy or if it has to do with the specific grade; 9th and 10th were 7 out of 6 days just like science, which happens to line up with which classes were for the Math A regents; 11th was every day, and 12th was 5 out of 6 days like everything else).  Most core classes were full year (exception: 12th grade English and Social Studies, which were two half-year classes; for English, people selected two electives, and for Social Studies, people to Economics and Law and Government unless substituting one or both with the full-year AP courses).  Most electives were half-year, with the exception of AP classes.

My understanding is that there is now a free period in the middle of the day for everyone (with the school day lengthened to accommodate it) as well, so that everyone has a chance to meet up with teachers for help even if none of their free periods line up with their teacher's office hours.

Quote from: Rothman on March 11, 2023, 11:45:30 AM
Quote from: 1 on March 11, 2023, 09:13:11 AM
So how essential are the FE and PE exams? I forgot to mention before that I thought that not that many jobs would require the FE exam because quite a lot of the exam is unrelated to transportation. I was also told that only 10% had passed the PE, and only one PE is required per project. However, I'm finding several jobs on LinkedIn that want FE completion.
NYSDOT requires FE for its Assistant Engineer/Professional Engineer track, I believe.  However, passing PE helps promotions become nearly automatic.
Correct.  People can start as a grade 18 trainee for the AE, but it's out the door if they don't pass the FE within two years.  The PE is required for the grade 24 PE1 title.  Plus I believe a lot of managerial titles require the PE, to the point where it's hard to get about grade 23 without one in a region, and even in Main Office I'm not sure what the opportunity is above grade 27 without a PE (although higher titles that don't need it do exist).
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Roadgeekteen

In Needham, we needed one semester (half a school year) of PE every year to graduate. All Sophmores and Seniors took PE the first half of the year, and Freshmen and Juniors the second half of the year. PE class was fun until Covid hit when it started to suck.
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Rothman



Quote from: vdeane on March 11, 2023, 04:31:58 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 11, 2023, 09:08:33 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 11, 2023, 08:16:09 AM
I find the comments about not having the same classes every day interesting because when I was in high school, you had the same six classes every day of the semester (or school year, if you didn't take any half-year classes) at the same time every day unless a day were shortened due to a late opening or early closing for snow.

Same here, but even more so, as we didn't have any half-year classes except for the one year that was half Oklahoma History and half World History. (Yeah, there's equivalent amounts of material to cover in both of those. :rolleyes:)
My school district operated on a six day cycle, with the exception of the middle school which used its own system of alternating A/B days and block scheduling (this started around when I was in sixth grade and that year they also had C1 and C2 days without blocks on alternating weeks; starting when I was in 7th grade, they got rid of C days because few people could keep track of them properly).  For high school, that amounts to 8 periods of classes and other things, most of which meet five of the six days; the remaining day is a "drop day" that is used either as a free period or as space to schedule "lab" classes or other things (free periods could be used to get help from a teacher in their office hours, go to the library, eat lunch, hang out, etc.; they even let people leave campus during periods 4-6 or arrive late/go home early with permission if they aligned at the start or end of the day).  The big exceptions were PE (three times a cycle, alternating days), study hall (opposite PE for freshmen and those with poor grades), science (every day, with one of those days being a lab block, so it actually met 7 out of 6 days), and certain math classes (not sure if they changed policy or if it has to do with the specific grade; 9th and 10th were 7 out of 6 days just like science, which happens to line up with which classes were for the Math A regents; 11th was every day, and 12th was 5 out of 6 days like everything else).  Most core classes were full year (exception: 12th grade English and Social Studies, which were two half-year classes; for English, people selected two electives, and for Social Studies, people to Economics and Law and Government unless substituting one or both with the full-year AP courses).  Most electives were half-year, with the exception of AP classes.

My understanding is that there is now a free period in the middle of the day for everyone (with the school day lengthened to accommodate it) as well, so that everyone has a chance to meet up with teachers for help even if none of their free periods line up with their teacher's office hours.

Quote from: Rothman on March 11, 2023, 11:45:30 AM
Quote from: 1 on March 11, 2023, 09:13:11 AM
So how essential are the FE and PE exams? I forgot to mention before that I thought that not that many jobs would require the FE exam because quite a lot of the exam is unrelated to transportation. I was also told that only 10% had passed the PE, and only one PE is required per project. However, I'm finding several jobs on LinkedIn that want FE completion.
NYSDOT requires FE for its Assistant Engineer/Professional Engineer track, I believe.  However, passing PE helps promotions become nearly automatic.
Correct.  People can start as a grade 18 trainee for the AE, but it's out the door if they don't pass the FE within two years.  The PE is required for the grade 24 PE1 title.  Plus I believe a lot of managerial titles require the PE, to the point where it's hard to get about grade 23 without one in a region, and even in Main Office I'm not sure what the opportunity is about grade 27 without a PE (although higher titles that don't need it do exist).

There are Grade 27s in the analyst title tracks.

Those in the M grades only need it if required by the posting profiles.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

vdeane

^ Whoops, "about" should be "above".  Fun fact: there are no 27 analysts in all of Region 1, and there haven't been for many years.  Our RPPM gave away the lone ATA item number in Region 1 ages ago.  Any analyst in Region 1 who wants a 27 has to go to Main Office.  Other regions still have them, but often only 1.  According to the data I pulled for Civil Service in 2017, only Regions 8, 10, and 11 have more than one ATA, and Region 7 is the other one that has none.  And I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen a PCPA job posted anywhere in DOT.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

seicer

When I graduated from H.S. in 2003, there were physical education requirements. What I wish we had was the why behind what we did more than mindless running about, which seemingly did nothing to achieve the goal of physical education. Of course, back then, we had few obese people, and after looking through my yearbooks, only about 25% of my classmates were what I would regard as overweight. When I went back to my old school to give a talk a few years back, I was shocked at how many were overweight. Over half appeared to be unhealthy. There was also no physical education requirement. I know there are other reasons behind the obesity epidemic, but it kind of bummed me out to see so few take their physical health seriously.

On the flip side, I am now in my late 30s and decided to take exercise more seriously. I started paying for a physical trainer, and it's been a game changer at not just knowing how to work out properly but why particular exercises are important to what muscle groups. A little bit of education would have been great in my teenager years.

hbelkins

PE (Phys Ed, we called it) was a requirement my freshman year of high school. I don't know if it was offered as an elective for any of the other years or not.

In college, you had to have so many hours of health and PE classes to graduate as part of the general requirements. One of the PE classes offered was Angling, which suited me fine because I had been a fisherman for years. I signed up for classes at a freshman orientation in the summer, so I knew to bring my fishing tackle to campus with me.


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Rothman

Quote from: vdeane on March 11, 2023, 08:08:58 PM
^ Whoops, "about" should be "above".  Fun fact: there are no 27 analysts in all of Region 1, and there haven't been for many years.  Our RPPM gave away the lone ATA item number in Region 1 ages ago.  Any analyst in Region 1 who wants a 27 has to go to Main Office.  Other regions still have them, but often only 1.  According to the data I pulled for Civil Service in 2017, only Regions 8, 10, and 11 have more than one ATA, and Region 7 is the other one that has none.  And I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen a PCPA job posted anywhere in DOT.

I think there has been some griping around the Department regarding the erratic distribution of non-PE Grade 27s.  I also think there's a lot of grumbling out there about the MO utilizing items to the point of overstaffing, while the Regional Offices are scraping by.  Then again, some Design groups can't hire even when they do have the items since NYSDOT's engineering salaries and benefits are no longer competitive (as one RDO quipped, "Back in the 1980s, the highest paid engineers in the State were National Grid and us.").  Telecommuting in some Regions is being more and more restricted.  I mean, at least they improved the plow truck driver benefits and salaries a bit, but the rest of the Personnel situation falls prey to the schism in management: We want NYSDOT to be a good and competitive place for engineers and others to come work...but then the older veteran managers can't get out of their old school factory-style mentality (e.g., perceiving telecommuting as days off and putting into place more restrictions on it instead of less).

Still, in Regional Program Management and Planning groups, it sort of makes sense to have one analyst Grade 27 and a Professional Engineer 2 as another.  Just having PE2s is just going to kill the analyst side of the house as they know full well they can't move up in that kind of structure.  You have general Program Management on one side of the shop and oversight of Local-administered projects on the other, so you have a PE2 over the latter and an ATA or capital program analyst over the former (ATAs seem to be much easier to come by).  Those Regions that have Project Development (getting State-administered projects to design approval) in Planning also have the case for a PE2.

I'm also finding myself becoming more and more fed up with Civil Service's inefficiencies.  The whole concept of Civil Service I do agree with -- it has prevented corruption in New York's hiring practices compared to the times before Teddy Roosevelt implemented it.  However, now that people aren't breaking down the door to work for the State, it's time for the tangles of red tape in Civil Service to be cut.  Make the "Rule of 3" the top three tiers rather than just Top 1, Top 2 and then Tier 3 -- this would also get rid of the charade that are the profiles for postings for Grade 27s and above.  Make it much, much easier to hire provisionally given the lack of tests being scheduled.  Oh, and get rid of the "kid has to be in college" requirement for eligibility for dental insurance.

</rant>

Personal opinions emphasized. :D
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

bulldog1979

In my high school, we had a semester of "Basic Gym" and a semester of health class required as freshman. As sophomores, we either had to take a semester of "Advanced Gym" or a semester of swimming. We had written tests in both gym classes on the rules of the sports we were being taught, and the rest of the grades were based on participation and improvement metrics. Basic gym had a swimming unit, and advanced did not.



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