The New York Post has an article about a new skyscraper proposed to be built in Oklahoma City: https://nypost.com/2024/04/17/real-estate/oklahoma-city-residents-question-the-planned-legends-tower/. It would be the tallest tower in the United States. I think it would be a monstrosity that would be better suited for being built in Chicago, Los Angeles or New York City.
Ugh. Tbought this forum was going to be immune from this nonsense. But, alas, the con man developer has now invaded whatever area of the Internet I frequent.
Not going to happen for the simple reason that OKC-area banks are notoriously risk-averse (there are virtually no five-over-ones in the OKC area because the banks consider it a risky, unproven venture despite them existing in practically every other US city). Non-OKC area banks generally don't like to invest in OKC-area projects because formulas used to calculate ROI elsewhere in the country don't return realistic results due to OKC's low density. (This is also why many national chains don't have locations in OKC.)
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 17, 2024, 08:05:25 PMNot going to happen for the simple reason that OKC-area banks are notoriously risk-averse (there are virtually no five-over-ones in the OKC area because the banks consider it a risky, unproven venture despite them existing in practically every other US city). Non-OKC area banks generally don't like to invest in OKC-area projects because formulas used to calculate ROI elsewhere in the country don't return realistic results due to OKC's low density. (This is also why many national chains don't have locations in OKC.)
Considering the cascading effects of the Penn Square Bank failure on the banking system back in 1982, those OKC-area banks are right to be risk-averse. Yes, while it may seem that sense in certain areas of the country may be short, it's not too bad to have memories that are long.
Sure, but the Penn Square bank failures had more to do with the oil industry than real estate.
It'll go the same way as the Chicago Spire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Spire), which would've dwarfed One World Trade Center by some 200 feet and change.
With the commercial office space situation post-covid, I'd be stunned if there's another major skyscraper not already in the pipeline built in the next 20 years.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on April 17, 2024, 03:47:47 PMI think it would be a monstrosity that would be better suited for being built in Chicago, Los Angeles or New York City.
Because those cities need or deserve monstrosities?
I agree with other posts, that unless OKC is vastly different from other cities, large office or residential buildings are seldom needed any more. GM is moving out of the RenCen in Detroit, and they don't know what the future will hold for those buildings. Just that it won't likely be office space, and they don't know if residential would be viable.
Quote from: Road Hog on April 23, 2024, 02:14:15 AMWith the commercial office space situation post-covid, I'd be stunned if there's another major skyscraper not already in the pipeline built in the next 20 years.
Pretty bold prediction honestly.
Hmm that proposed tower in Oklahoma City could have been in places like Houston, Dallas, Fort Worth and Austin and would have fit right in the skylines of those cities given how much those places are currently fighting to attract companies to have Downtown offices in those places.
Quote from: bing101 on May 04, 2024, 11:41:27 AMHmm that proposed tower in Oklahoma City could have been in places like Houston, Dallas, Fort Worth and Austin and would have fit right in the skylines of those cities given how much those places are currently fighting to attract companies to have Downtown offices in those places.
Fitting right in is a bug, not a feature. The big fish in Oklahoma City's small pond are treated very well.
Quote from: bing101 on May 04, 2024, 11:41:27 AMHmm that proposed tower in Oklahoma City could have been in places like Houston, Dallas, Fort Worth and Austin and would have fit right in the skylines of those cities given how much those places are currently fighting to attract companies to have Downtown offices in those places.
It's unlikely this thing gets built. But I will say. I don't agree with the mentality that oh, it doesn't fit in so it shouldn't be built. I've never understood that. I've never seen the issue of skyscrapers next to single family homes like what you'll see in LA and Houston. Nor do I see the issue of cities with small skylines getting a supertall. Personally I think it looks really cool.
Downtown OKC has tons of vacant areas that aren't even being used as parking lots. There is no way a skyscraper will pencil out.
Like that's stopped something like this from being done before.
Also let me clarify my position, I don't think it'll be built. I think there's a slim chance which is a lot more than what most people think, but ultimately I don't think it'll be built. I wish it would be built. I Would love for it to be built.
But at the end of the day, I'm just hoping the rest of the development gets built.
And I'll be surprised if that happens.
For anyone that doesn't know. This is the last phase of a multi phase development that will include a dream hotel. I'm skeptical anything gets built. This is oklahoma city, the king of value engineering.
I'm also eating popcorn at all. The people that are up in arms about this and don't understand that this thing has a very small chance of being built. It's absolutely hilarious. How much conversations this is generating which i'm sure is exactly what the developer wants.
Now in theory, let's think about what happens if this does get built. I wonder if that would set off some sort of a boom in other megatalls. And to me OKC Makes perfect sense for a developer compensating with an over small penis Because it has very low land cost and construction cost. I'm not exactly packing in Africa anaconda over here So if I wanted to show off how big my building was I Would pick a low density low cost city to build in like OKC.
This would be a vanity project. OKC trying to say it is a world destination as opposed to a large city in a small state.
Land is too cheap in OKC for them to build something like this. There is not a market for $M townhomes. It just makes zero sense. It would make its mark in the vanity department until it was laughingly empty after it was completed.
Quote from: bwana39 on May 05, 2024, 09:32:42 PMThis would be a vanity project. OKC trying to say it is a world destination as opposed to a large city in a small state.
Land is too cheap in OKC for them to build something like this. There is not a market for $M townhomes. It just makes zero sense. It would make its mark in the vanity department until it was laughingly empty after it was completed.
Exactly right. Skyscrapers normally are set up where land is at a premium because the cost gets very expensive the higher you go. The exception to this is for a person, government, etc which wants to make a statement building. For one, I would not want to work or live in a building that you could have a tornado warning and have to wait for the elevator to go down 50 floors. Of course, they have skyscrapers in LA, San Fran, and Seattle.
The tornado argument? Really? Lol
Quote from: bwana39 on May 05, 2024, 09:32:42 PMOKC trying to say it is a world destination as opposed to a large city in a small state.
First time in OKC, eh?
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 06, 2024, 06:03:50 PMQuote from: bwana39 on May 05, 2024, 09:32:42 PMOKC trying to say it is a world destination as opposed to a large city in a small state.
First time in OKC, eh?
I always cringe when I fly into the OKC Airport and see "You've arrived in a big league city" or something like that. It has pictures of a 50 story skyscraper, a pedestrian bridge, and some Asian guy cooking food.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on May 06, 2024, 07:15:50 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on May 06, 2024, 06:03:50 PMQuote from: bwana39 on May 05, 2024, 09:32:42 PMOKC trying to say it is a world destination as opposed to a large city in a small state.
First time in OKC, eh?
I always cringe when I fly into the OKC Airport and see "You've arrived in a big league city" or something like that. It has pictures of a 50 story skyscraper, a pedestrian bridge, and some Asian guy cooking food.
To be fair to OKC, this yearning to be taken as seriously as Dallas—they say "big league city" but it's clear they want to be Dallas, they never copy off of Kansas City—has produced some pretty big quality of life increases for the city. It's just a shame that the state of Oklahoma cuts them off at the knees at every available opportunity.
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 07, 2024, 06:04:02 PMQuote from: Plutonic Panda on May 06, 2024, 07:15:50 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on May 06, 2024, 06:03:50 PMQuote from: bwana39 on May 05, 2024, 09:32:42 PMOKC trying to say it is a world destination as opposed to a large city in a small state.
First time in OKC, eh?
I always cringe when I fly into the OKC Airport and see "You've arrived in a big league city" or something like that. It has pictures of a 50 story skyscraper, a pedestrian bridge, and some Asian guy cooking food.
To be fair to OKC, this yearning to be taken as seriously as Dallas—they say "big league city" but it's clear they want to be Dallas, they never copy off of Kansas City—has produced some pretty big quality of life increases for the city. It's just a shame that the state of Oklahoma cuts them off at the knees at every available opportunity.
Oh I absolutely agree. OKC Has a lot to offer and it's a great city. I'm here right now and i'm enjoying it. I'm just not a big fan of their big league city slogan.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on May 07, 2024, 06:46:36 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on May 07, 2024, 06:04:02 PMQuote from: Plutonic Panda on May 06, 2024, 07:15:50 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on May 06, 2024, 06:03:50 PMQuote from: bwana39 on May 05, 2024, 09:32:42 PMOKC trying to say it is a world destination as opposed to a large city in a small state.
First time in OKC, eh?
I always cringe when I fly into the OKC Airport and see "You've arrived in a big league city" or something like that. It has pictures of a 50 story skyscraper, a pedestrian bridge, and some Asian guy cooking food.
To be fair to OKC, this yearning to be taken as seriously as Dallas—they say "big league city" but it's clear they want to be Dallas, they never copy off of Kansas City—has produced some pretty big quality of life increases for the city. It's just a shame that the state of Oklahoma cuts them off at the knees at every available opportunity.
Oh I absolutely agree. OKC Has a lot to offer and it's a great city. I'm here right now and i'm enjoying it. I'm just not a big fan of their big league city slogan.
I like OKC a lot too, I just couldn't stand living there.
I had David Payne on yesterday just for nostalgia's sake.
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 07, 2024, 06:56:52 PMQuote from: Plutonic Panda on May 07, 2024, 06:46:36 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on May 07, 2024, 06:04:02 PMQuote from: Plutonic Panda on May 06, 2024, 07:15:50 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on May 06, 2024, 06:03:50 PMQuote from: bwana39 on May 05, 2024, 09:32:42 PMOKC trying to say it is a world destination as opposed to a large city in a small state.
First time in OKC, eh?
I always cringe when I fly into the OKC Airport and see "You've arrived in a big league city" or something like that. It has pictures of a 50 story skyscraper, a pedestrian bridge, and some Asian guy cooking food.
To be fair to OKC, this yearning to be taken as seriously as Dallas—they say "big league city" but it's clear they want to be Dallas, they never copy off of Kansas City—has produced some pretty big quality of life increases for the city. It's just a shame that the state of Oklahoma cuts them off at the knees at every available opportunity.
Oh I absolutely agree. OKC Has a lot to offer and it's a great city. I'm here right now and i'm enjoying it. I'm just not a big fan of their big league city slogan.
I like OKC a lot too, I just couldn't stand living there.
I had David Payne on yesterday just for nostalgia's sake.
I was watching David Payne as well and it brought back memories. I miss Gary England and his "Friday night in the big town" reports. The news 9 chopper guy was hilarious last night.
Like others, I'm still skeptical the "Legends Tower" will be built out in its planned 1907 foot tall design height. The overall development seems kind of iffy. Developer Scot Matteson claims he has the financing in place to build the tower. The Oklahoma City Planning Commission gave approval to the project. It's almost like the city is calling Matteson's bluff just to see if he'll actually go through with it (and do so without going broke in the process). IIRC, I think even he has made statements on the order of the tower only getting built IF he lines up certain tenants before hand.
Regarding the comments about OKC's population density, traditional real estate market rules on that would apply if our real estate market was functioning normally. The situation now is completely absurd and unmoored from reality. So many residential properties are being used as investment objects rather than places to live. I think around a third of the tower is supposed to be residential apartments. It wouldn't be all that surprising if rich people in Oklahoma and outside the state (or outside the country) bought up all those living spaces. Having an apartment in the Legends Tower would just be another thing to add to the investment portfolio, not to mention bragging rights.
The office space situation might be the harder problem to solve. Plenty of businesses have soured on the remote work model. Still, vast improvements in Internet connection speeds and other changes in technology have made it far less necessary for an organization to rent office space at a premium in a high rise downtown tower. The office real estate vacancy situation in New York City is pretty bad. Office space in some buildings is being converted into apartments (high priced "luxury" apartments of course).
Even if all things in this project were given the go-ahead, I would be surprised if any construction started in the near future. High interest rates, stubborn inflation and the perception we're in one hell of a real estate price bubble would make it risky start construction on a project like this. The Jeddah Tower in Saudi Arabia halted construction in 2018 due to financial problems; construction resumed late in 2023.
Anybody know what skyscraper replaced the Alfred Murrah building (that was destroyed in 1995)?
According to 2022, Oklahoma City has almost 700K people, compared to Boston (650K), Las Vegas (660K), Washington (670K), Detroit (620K), Baltimore (570K), and Atlanta (497K).
Oklahoma City is larger than World-class cities like Detroit and Atlanta, so yeah I would believe you if you told me that OKC is a major city by now. Last time I was in OKC was almost a quarter-century ago, and surely it has grown by lots since this century began.
The site of the Murrah building is a memorial so the answer to your first question is 'none'.
OKC's city limits population is deceiving because it's geographically large. Better to look at its MSA population which is about 1.4 million making it the 42nd largest 'city' in the US.
Compare that to
Boston: 4.9 million
Las Vegas: 2.3 million
Washington: 6.3 million
Detroit: 4.3 million
Baltimore: 2.8 million
Atlanta: 6.3 million
So OKC is still a "small" city in this context.
Quote from: jgb191 on May 08, 2024, 03:47:33 PMOklahoma City is larger than World-class cities like Detroit and Atlanta
I think this is the first time in about 40 years someone has called Detroit "world-class".
Just as long as he doesn't manage to hoodwink the city out of TIF money with this nonsense.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 08, 2024, 04:06:35 PMThe site of the Murrah building is a memorial so the answer to your first question is 'none'.
A new federal building was built on a different site, though:
(https://i.imgur.com/hihPvTq.png) (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.4751947,-97.5177414,3a,75y,213.37h,92.94t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sbrdmUdHZ72pVjdMLqMPqLg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DbrdmUdHZ72pVjdMLqMPqLg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D17.60647%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)