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Author Topic: More US 31 upgrades between Indy and South Bend  (Read 98452 times)

ITB

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Re: More US 31 upgrades between Indy and South Bend
« Reply #575 on: September 10, 2023, 09:26:40 PM »


Honestly, there should have been interchanges at 296th and 266th Streets. Which would have provided direct links from US 31 to Atlanta and Arcadia respectively. Instead we get to have one at 276th Street because Reynolds Farm Equipment is apparently that important. No wonder the Wilson's people are furious, INDOT IS favoring some businesses.

Point is, they'll probably skip the 296th interchange and see 276th as serving both 266th and 296th Streets. I get the feeling that the 276th Street exit will end up being the only one between 236th and SR 28. I mean it shouldn't, but that's what I think will ultimately happen.

Development is continuing to push north in Hamilton. That makes me think an interchange at 296th is more likely than not.

Update: On second thought, you'll probably right. The ProPEL study, in all likelihood, won't find a need for an interchange at 296th. An overpass is more likely to be recommended. But, but, but ... the northward growth that is underway in Hamilton County may make an interchange at 296th a necessity in the not too distant future, particularly if development begins to creep into Tipton. Give it 10 years.

Edit: Added update.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2023, 12:13:50 AM by ITB »
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NWI_Irish96

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Re: More US 31 upgrades between Indy and South Bend
« Reply #576 on: September 11, 2023, 08:33:02 AM »


Honestly, there should have been interchanges at 296th and 266th Streets. Which would have provided direct links from US 31 to Atlanta and Arcadia respectively. Instead we get to have one at 276th Street because Reynolds Farm Equipment is apparently that important. No wonder the Wilson's people are furious, INDOT IS favoring some businesses.

Point is, they'll probably skip the 296th interchange and see 276th as serving both 266th and 296th Streets. I get the feeling that the 276th Street exit will end up being the only one between 236th and SR 28. I mean it shouldn't, but that's what I think will ultimately happen.

Development is continuing to push north in Hamilton. That makes me think an interchange at 296th is more likely than not.

Update: On second thought, you'll probably right. The ProPEL study, in all likelihood, won't find a need for an interchange at 296th. An overpass is more likely to be recommended. But, but, but ... the northward growth that is underway in Hamilton County may make an interchange at 296th a necessity in the not too distant future, particularly if development begins to creep into Tipton. Give it 10 years.

Edit: Added update.

I don't know if any traffic studies got done on all the roads between 256th and 296th to see which ones had the highest counts. The fact that 276th doesn't even go all the way over to IN 19 suggests that traffic counts weren't a factor in deciding where to put an interchange.
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monty

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Re: More US 31 upgrades between Indy and South Bend
« Reply #577 on: September 11, 2023, 06:16:41 PM »

The US 31 Propel study doesn’t include Hamilton County. The Hamilton County plan is already set. The Propel study covers the corridor from the Tipton -Hamilton County line north to Tipton County 550 N and then again from The completed Kokomo segment north to Plymouth.

I believe Hamilton County invested heavily into the last two interchanges currently under construction.
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monty

ITB

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Re: More US 31 upgrades between Indy and South Bend
« Reply #578 on: September 11, 2023, 06:49:13 PM »

Actually, according to the ProPEL 31 website, the northern part of Hamilton County is included.

"The ProPEL US 31 south study area extends from 276th street in Hamilton County to just south of Eel River in Miami County."

https://propelus31.com/us-31-south/

And in more detail:

"This Purpose and Need Report is being prepared for the ProPEL US 31 South study. The ProPEL US 31 South study
area includes US 31 from approximately 276 th Street in Hamilton County north to the State Route (SR) 931 south
junction in Tipton County, and from the SR 931 north junction in Howard County north to County Road (CR) West
300 North in Miami County. As previously mentioned, the US 31 Kokomo bypass is excluded from the ProPEL US 31
South study."

https://propelus31.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/US31SPEL_DraftPurposeAndNeed_RP_WEB.pdf
« Last Edit: September 11, 2023, 07:00:23 PM by ITB »
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monty

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Re: More US 31 upgrades between Indy and South Bend
« Reply #579 on: September 11, 2023, 09:20:16 PM »

Thanks for clarifying. So really the last 1.5 - 2.0 miles of northern Hamilton County is still in play with the ProPEL US 31 study. It will be interesting to see what happens at county line / 296th / 600 S with the church building and cemetery there. Since it’s a county line road, Tipton County is responsible for the maintenance. I doubt Hamilton County will invest as they have elsewhere. Thinking an over pass pushed north to avoid the cemetery makes sense or a RIRO if INDOT decides to stop the interstate standard near that area.
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monty

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Re: More US 31 upgrades between Indy and South Bend
« Reply #580 on: October 03, 2023, 07:20:05 PM »

Relocations are always a part of highway improvements. One part of the story that caught my attention was the owner of Wilson Farm Market's understandable displeasure with having to relocate. If the 256th St. intersection was replaced with an underpass, would that still require the store to be relocated?
Definitely opinionated:

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1605537,-86.1278773,3a,15y,51.05h,88.8t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s0iAbXyCLZrrnBIUtGm3m9Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1609542,-86.1278763,3a,15y,138.31h,101.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szYbrXmlbzkqdxoOjgtg6Uw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu

It's not like he isn't being compensated for having to relocate.  If the amount of compensation is inadequate to cover the relocation costs he has an argument - otherwise assuming the compensation is adequate I don't have much sympathy.

Smartest thing he could do is move two miles south or north to one of the new interchanges - let InDOT help him build a bigger store with a parking lot that doesn't require customers to cross the street when it's busy. It looks like he's courting public opinion to try to leverage a bigger payout - more power to him. Paying the owner to relocate was the cheaper option for InDOT v.s. giving him an interchange, and leaving it alone is not a tenable option, particularly after spending the money to cul-de-sac or overpass every other crossroad.

Well in the careful what you ask for department - it looks like INDOT has withdrawn their intent to take the property via eminent domain.   Instead of being able to relocate with financial assistance he will likely be stuck with no direct easy access to the untouched business.

https://fox59-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/fox59.com/news/indot-withdraws-eminent-domain-in-hamilton-county-wilson-farm-market-building-to-stay-put/amp/?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQGsAEggAID#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16963748658186&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Ffox59.com%2Fnews%2Findot-withdraws-eminent-domain-in-hamilton-county-wilson-farm-market-building-to-stay-put%2F

https://www.wrtv.com/news/local-news/wilsons-farm-market-building-to-stay-put-after-indot-withdraws-eminent-domain
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ITB

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Re: More US 31 upgrades between Indy and South Bend
« Reply #581 on: October 03, 2023, 07:50:52 PM »

Relocations are always a part of highway improvements. One part of the story that caught my attention was the owner of Wilson Farm Market's understandable displeasure with having to relocate. If the 256th St. intersection was replaced with an underpass, would that still require the store to be relocated?
Definitely opinionated:

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1605537,-86.1278773,3a,15y,51.05h,88.8t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s0iAbXyCLZrrnBIUtGm3m9Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1609542,-86.1278763,3a,15y,138.31h,101.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szYbrXmlbzkqdxoOjgtg6Uw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu

It's not like he isn't being compensated for having to relocate.  If the amount of compensation is inadequate to cover the relocation costs he has an argument - otherwise assuming the compensation is adequate I don't have much sympathy.

Smartest thing he could do is move two miles south or north to one of the new interchanges - let InDOT help him build a bigger store with a parking lot that doesn't require customers to cross the street when it's busy. It looks like he's courting public opinion to try to leverage a bigger payout - more power to him. Paying the owner to relocate was the cheaper option for InDOT v.s. giving him an interchange, and leaving it alone is not a tenable option, particularly after spending the money to cul-de-sac or overpass every other crossroad.

Well in the careful what you ask for department - it looks like INDOT has withdrawn their intent to take the property via eminent domain.   Instead of being able to relocate with financial assistance he will likely be stuck with no direct easy access to the untouched business.

https://fox59-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/fox59.com/news/indot-withdraws-eminent-domain-in-hamilton-county-wilson-farm-market-building-to-stay-put/amp/?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQGsAEggAID#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16963748658186&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Ffox59.com%2Fnews%2Findot-withdraws-eminent-domain-in-hamilton-county-wilson-farm-market-building-to-stay-put%2F

https://www.wrtv.com/news/local-news/wilsons-farm-market-building-to-stay-put-after-indot-withdraws-eminent-domain

Indeed, as soon as 256th Street is sealed off from US 31, it's going to be struggle for this business to remain viable. In the commercial real estate industry, holdouts who refuse to sell to an entity that is putting together an assemblage are known as "spikes." Sometimes it gets pretty crazy. In the end, however, the spikes tend to lose out as their property falls in value because it can't be developed fully. Not exactly the same case with the Wilson Family Market, but by refusing to work with INDOT the future doesn't look particularly bright for this business. Maybe the end of the eminent domain process is the first step toward a compromise deal.
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silverback1065

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Re: More US 31 upgrades between Indy and South Bend
« Reply #582 on: October 03, 2023, 08:26:54 PM »

his business may stay open, but business will suffer when the road closes perminately.
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monty

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Re: More US 31 upgrades between Indy and South Bend
« Reply #583 on: October 04, 2023, 12:52:54 PM »

All three current US 31 projects in Tipton and Hamilton counties are making great progress. Noticed yesterday the the northbound lanes over the NS RR are complete with pavement markings and soon to open. Crews sewing grass seed and working on the frontage road.

Bakers Corner interchange is mostly complete with the exception of the drainage ditch and the northbound on ramp.
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Re: More US 31 upgrades between Indy and South Bend
« Reply #584 on: October 04, 2023, 01:10:38 PM »

his business may stay open, but business will suffer when the road closes perminately.

He wants an exit there, and seems willing to sell if Indot will put an exit there.

In the end, I think they will design around it and leave him on a road with a dead end/overpass with no connection to 31. Perhaps even go to the expense of one of the ones with retaining walls to minimize the footprint, since he owns land on both sides and does have INDOT hemmed in.

He bit the hand that was going to feed him, and Indot will just work around him to spite him.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2023, 01:33:06 PM by Moose »
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monty

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Re: More US 31 upgrades between Indy and South Bend
« Reply #585 on: October 04, 2023, 04:35:25 PM »

A little more detail on the Wilson's saga here: https://www.insideindianabusiness.com/articles/indot-reverses-us-31-farm-market-eminent-domain-owner-says-fight-not-over?utm_source=inside-edge-midday-report&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=2023-10-04

“Now the shackles are off,” Wilson said in the Facebook Live. “We’re not going anywhere, and I’m going to keep raising all kinds of hell.”
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monty

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Re: More US 31 upgrades between Indy and South Bend
« Reply #586 on: October 04, 2023, 05:18:12 PM »

Maybe they could build frontage roads along US 31 between the new interchanges. They will need to build some kind of local road connectors to link the various homes and businesses that will no longer be able to be directly accessed from US 31 itself.
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tdindy88

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Re: More US 31 upgrades between Indy and South Bend
« Reply #587 on: October 04, 2023, 05:55:00 PM »

You could just go one mile east to Anthony Road and take that either north to 276th Street or south to 236th Street. It's a little out of the way but for access to US 31 in the future that's what people who live in that area are going to have to do. Just as people in Morgan County have gotten used to using various roads to access various exits along the new I-69. Dude needs to understand that there is never or ever was going to be an exit at 256th.
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JREwing78

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Re: More US 31 upgrades between Indy and South Bend
« Reply #588 on: October 04, 2023, 11:04:17 PM »

A little more detail on the Wilson's saga here: https://www.insideindianabusiness.com/articles/indot-reverses-us-31-farm-market-eminent-domain-owner-says-fight-not-over?utm_source=inside-edge-midday-report&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=2023-10-04

Wilson better hope like hell he gets enough public support to get that interchange put in at 256th. Otherwise, this is a Pyrrhic victory at best.

Wilson (the owner) strikes me as a bit of a knucklehead. His claim that "It was never about the building" is weird and hard to take seriously. Ditto for his claim about not receiving an offer for the property; they can't legally just take the land out from under him without payment. His claim that he only found out about INDOT's intentions at a public meeting and "not given an avenue to give direct feedback". Um, bulls***. The public meeting's purpose is to communicate their intentions and get feedback, and obviously they got it.

Ultimately Wilson wants INDOT to build a new interchange at 256th, with his market right there where it always has been, so he can continue his cash cow and folks won't get lost trying to find him. He's trying to deflect criticism by making it sound like INDOT's being a bully, rallying populist support. But his business is ultimately subsidized by the major highway people's taxes have paid for, and it's profited off of an intersection that's grown more deadly and dangerous by the year. He's not exactly an innocent bystander.

Hopefully INDOT is able to absorb the extra expense of an interchange here without unduly delaying future efforts to improve US-31 north of the market.
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Great Lakes Roads

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Re: More US 31 upgrades between Indy and South Bend
« Reply #589 on: October 04, 2023, 11:22:34 PM »

A little more detail on the Wilson's saga here: https://www.insideindianabusiness.com/articles/indot-reverses-us-31-farm-market-eminent-domain-owner-says-fight-not-over?utm_source=inside-edge-midday-report&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=2023-10-04

Wilson better hope like hell he gets enough public support to get that interchange put in at 256th. Otherwise, this is a Pyrrhic victory at best.

Wilson (the owner) strikes me as a bit of a knucklehead. His claim that "It was never about the building" is weird and hard to take seriously. Ditto for his claim about not receiving an offer for the property; they can't legally just take the land out from under him without payment. His claim that he only found out about INDOT's intentions at a public meeting and "not given an avenue to give direct feedback". Um, bulls***. The public meeting's purpose is to communicate their intentions and get feedback, and obviously they got it.

Ultimately Wilson wants INDOT to build a new interchange at 256th, with his market right there where it always has been, so he can continue his cash cow and folks won't get lost trying to find him. He's trying to deflect criticism by making it sound like INDOT's being a bully, rallying populist support. But his business is ultimately subsidized by the major highway people's taxes have paid for, and it's profited off of an intersection that's grown more deadly and dangerous by the year. He's not exactly an innocent bystander.

Hopefully INDOT is able to absorb the extra expense of an interchange here without unduly delaying future efforts to improve US-31 north of the market.


It's about 4 miles between 236th and 276th Street interchanges... 256th street would be 2 miles between those interchanges, but knowing INDOT, they probably will go with the status quo with some minor changes...
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silverback1065

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Re: More US 31 upgrades between Indy and South Bend
« Reply #590 on: October 05, 2023, 08:46:33 AM »

they won't add an exit at 256th and even if they did they would have to take his property to do it  :-D
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Re: More US 31 upgrades between Indy and South Bend
« Reply #591 on: October 05, 2023, 09:17:18 AM »

they won't add an exit at 256th and even if they did they would have to take his property to do it  :-D

Yes, unless it was a folded diamond with the NB on/off ramps located on the south side.
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NWI_Irish96

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Re: More US 31 upgrades between Indy and South Bend
« Reply #592 on: October 05, 2023, 09:22:49 AM »

A little more detail on the Wilson's saga here: https://www.insideindianabusiness.com/articles/indot-reverses-us-31-farm-market-eminent-domain-owner-says-fight-not-over?utm_source=inside-edge-midday-report&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=2023-10-04

Wilson better hope like hell he gets enough public support to get that interchange put in at 256th. Otherwise, this is a Pyrrhic victory at best.

Wilson (the owner) strikes me as a bit of a knucklehead. His claim that "It was never about the building" is weird and hard to take seriously. Ditto for his claim about not receiving an offer for the property; they can't legally just take the land out from under him without payment. His claim that he only found out about INDOT's intentions at a public meeting and "not given an avenue to give direct feedback". Um, bulls***. The public meeting's purpose is to communicate their intentions and get feedback, and obviously they got it.

Ultimately Wilson wants INDOT to build a new interchange at 256th, with his market right there where it always has been, so he can continue his cash cow and folks won't get lost trying to find him. He's trying to deflect criticism by making it sound like INDOT's being a bully, rallying populist support. But his business is ultimately subsidized by the major highway people's taxes have paid for, and it's profited off of an intersection that's grown more deadly and dangerous by the year. He's not exactly an innocent bystander.

Hopefully INDOT is able to absorb the extra expense of an interchange here without unduly delaying future efforts to improve US-31 north of the market.


It's about 4 miles between 236th and 276th Street interchanges... 256th street would be 2 miles between those interchanges, but knowing INDOT, they probably will go with the status quo with some minor changes...

266th was the logical choice for an interchange instead of 276th, but apparently the owner of Reynolds Farm Equipment has some pull with INDOT.
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silverback1065

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Re: More US 31 upgrades between Indy and South Bend
« Reply #593 on: October 05, 2023, 01:09:44 PM »

A little more detail on the Wilson's saga here: https://www.insideindianabusiness.com/articles/indot-reverses-us-31-farm-market-eminent-domain-owner-says-fight-not-over?utm_source=inside-edge-midday-report&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=2023-10-04

Wilson better hope like hell he gets enough public support to get that interchange put in at 256th. Otherwise, this is a Pyrrhic victory at best.

Wilson (the owner) strikes me as a bit of a knucklehead. His claim that "It was never about the building" is weird and hard to take seriously. Ditto for his claim about not receiving an offer for the property; they can't legally just take the land out from under him without payment. His claim that he only found out about INDOT's intentions at a public meeting and "not given an avenue to give direct feedback". Um, bulls***. The public meeting's purpose is to communicate their intentions and get feedback, and obviously they got it.

Ultimately Wilson wants INDOT to build a new interchange at 256th, with his market right there where it always has been, so he can continue his cash cow and folks won't get lost trying to find him. He's trying to deflect criticism by making it sound like INDOT's being a bully, rallying populist support. But his business is ultimately subsidized by the major highway people's taxes have paid for, and it's profited off of an intersection that's grown more deadly and dangerous by the year. He's not exactly an innocent bystander.

Hopefully INDOT is able to absorb the extra expense of an interchange here without unduly delaying future efforts to improve US-31 north of the market.


It's about 4 miles between 236th and 276th Street interchanges... 256th street would be 2 miles between those interchanges, but knowing INDOT, they probably will go with the status quo with some minor changes...

266th was the logical choice for an interchange instead of 276th, but apparently the owner of Reynolds Farm Equipment has some pull with INDOT.

276th traverses the entire county (they recently connected 281st to complete this) and has a major company on it. 266th does neither, hence the no exit at 266th.
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SEWIGuy

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Re: More US 31 upgrades between Indy and South Bend
« Reply #594 on: October 05, 2023, 01:29:29 PM »

A little more detail on the Wilson's saga here: https://www.insideindianabusiness.com/articles/indot-reverses-us-31-farm-market-eminent-domain-owner-says-fight-not-over?utm_source=inside-edge-midday-report&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=2023-10-04

“Now the shackles are off,” Wilson said in the Facebook Live. “We’re not going anywhere, and I’m going to keep raising all kinds of hell.”



LOL....
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: More US 31 upgrades between Indy and South Bend
« Reply #595 on: October 05, 2023, 03:28:08 PM »

This Wilson guy has said his piece. I doubt it will change the plans to that segment of the US 31 corridor one bit. Have the owners of the Kasi Cafe and the Indiana Golf Car Club Car Dealer on the east side of the US 31/E. 266th St. intersection raised a similar ruckus about the proposed overpass being constructed over US 31?
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Re: More US 31 upgrades between Indy and South Bend
« Reply #596 on: October 05, 2023, 03:32:21 PM »

I don't feel a bit sorry for him. I question how he got the OK to enclose what used to be an open-sided shelter so close to the property line. Most places have setback requirements, but I haven't found what they are in Hamilton County. He's spent a lot of money sprucing up the place knowing full well all along that they've been talking upgrades to 31 for years.
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monty

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Re: More US 31 upgrades between Indy and South Bend
« Reply #597 on: October 10, 2023, 10:36:37 PM »

One Northbound lane is now open over the NS RR bridge. Looks like the project is wrapping up.  It will be interesting to see traffic respond to the re-activated stoplight at Division Road. I can’t think it’ll be very safe there.
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monty

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Re: More US 31 upgrades between Indy and South Bend
« Reply #598 on: October 12, 2023, 08:06:45 PM »

Couple of tidbits to share:

Another Battery Factory Planned for Kokomo

Yesterday, news broke that Stellantis and Samsung SDI plan to build a second battery plant in Kokomo. Each facility, when fully built out, is expected to employ 1,400. While these plans do not directly apply to US 31 and its possible upgrades, they have an indirect impact as the population in Howard and Tipton counties is likely to increase if the factories come to fruition. And, of course, a larger population means more traffic, which then leads to road expansions and other mobility improvements.

US31/256th Street and the Wilson Farm Market

In regards to the Wilson Farm Market issue, I came across an interesting news piece from October 2020. In it, Hamilton County Commissioner Mark Heirbrandt is reported as noting the county’s comprehensive plan shows an "access" at 256th Street. Bear in mind, this news report was from three years ago, so things may have changed since then. Also, it doesn't mention the date of the comprehensive plan, so that, too, might have been a few years old.

Looking again at the PROPel US 31 South Study, Existing Transportation Conditions, it notes that the INDOT Access Management Guide classifies the US 31 corridor through Hamilton, Tipton, Howard, and Miami counties as a Tier 1A Mobility Corridor. With the classification, a number a guidelines apply, and those can be viewed on Page 19 of the study. There is no mention when US 31 was designated a Tier 1A Mobility Corridor. But that classification, whenever it was conferred, certainly must be taken into account when putting together a county comprehensive plan.

According to the study, 256th Street is classified by INDOT as a "local road," while 276th Street and 236th Street (Bakers Corner), and 266th Street, are deemed "Major Collector" (Page 7). The reason for the classification grade of 256th Street is probably because it ends at Eagletown Road west of US 31. This indicates that, unless something significant changes, building an interchange or an overpass at 256th Street is unlikely to occur in the years to come. But, having said that, it's difficult to determine the growth of the northern exurbs of Indianapolis, whether it will be slow and steady or simply explode. Development already is rapidly spreading in northern Hamilton County. How far up it will go and how fast it will happen is a tremendous challenge to predict. However, the main development pattern is clear, and that is, it's primarily moving northward. There may come a time, perhaps in 15 or 20 years, or more, when another interchange on US 31 is needed between 236th and 276th Streets. But, for now, don't hold your breath.

Map showing new development in northwest Hamilton County


Google Maps
Satellite view of the town of Sheridan in northern Hamilton County, depicting a major residential housing project under development. Located about four miles west of Bakers Corner, Sheridan's population is beginning to tick up, from 2,665 in 2010 to 3,106 in 2020. When businesses begin to establish their footprint in the LEAP Innovation District in Boone County, both Sheridan and Bakers Corners, and other nearby towns, will likely see significant residential development.

Edit: Added map/minor wording edits
« Last Edit: October 20, 2023, 12:01:15 AM by ITB »
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cjw2001

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« Last Edit: October 16, 2023, 10:02:11 AM by cjw2001 »
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