Not sure you will be able to see this but this is a 1928 photo of University Avenue at Gilman Street in Madison. There is a clear US-151 reassurance sign in this photo.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10209599856889603&set=gm.10155381198553903&type=3&theater
Now this is before US-151 existed southwest of Madison. (That occurred in 1937.) Here is how the routing of the highway at that time is described on Chris Bessert's site:
"US-151 debuted in 1926 at the same time as many of the other U.S. Highways in Wisconsin in the year the system was created, although the original route only ran from US-51, the highway's "parent route," northeasterly through Columbus, Beaver Dam and Waupun to a terminus at the newly-desginated US-41 in Fond du Lac."
So either the caption of this picture is wrong on the location, or US-151 was actually routed further into town. (My guess is that it was routed south down East Washington, then over to westbound University Avenue ending at Park Street, where US-12/14 turned from the south onto University heading west.)
Interesting...
Someone posted a street view image of the same location and the same building on the left still stands so it looks legit.
LGL56VL
I agree with your conclusions. Based on http://catalog.archives.gov/id/5840710 it probably used Washington-Bassett-University (splitting from US 51 at Winnebago Street). That means the reverse side of this sign would have been identical except for "R" in a U.S. shield at the bottom (telling you to turn right ahead).
The other shields are 19 (not 13, which used University-Park), 30, and 113. All three routes probably ended with US 151 at Park (which was US 12 and 13).
Quote from: NE2 on July 01, 2017, 08:48:28 PM
I agree with your conclusions. Based on http://catalog.archives.gov/id/5840710 it probably used Washington-Bassett-University (splitting from US 51 at Winnebago Street). That means the reverse side of this sign would have been identical except for "R" in a U.S. shield at the bottom (telling you to turn right ahead).
The other shields are 19 (not 13, which used University-Park), 30, and 113. All three routes probably ended with US 151 at Park (which was US 12 and 13).
Ah yes US-14 would not have been in Madison at that time. Thanks.
Does anyone know of any highway maps of Madison from that time that still exist today? The closest thing I've found online was this 1937 state highway map from the Wisconsin Historical Society: http://content.wisconsinhistory.org/cdm/ref/collection/maps/id/625
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on July 03, 2017, 03:56:29 PM
Does anyone know of any highway maps of Madison from that time that still exist today? The closest thing I've found online was this 1937 state highway map from the Wisconsin Historical Society: http://content.wisconsinhistory.org/cdm/ref/collection/maps/id/625
This is supposedly from 1930 - http://content.wisconsinhistory.org/cdm/compoundobject/collection/maps/id/7444/rec/7
This is from 1920 which shows route numbers on the main map but not on the Madison inset - http://content.wisconsinhistory.org/cdm/compoundobject/collection/maps/id/16042/rec/28
This is from the mid-20s and actually doesn't show enough of Madison... http://content.wisconsinhistory.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/maps/id/899/rec/56
Early 20s - http://content.wisconsinhistory.org/cdm/compoundobject/collection/maps/id/14391/rec/83
From 1924 - http://content.wisconsinhistory.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/maps/id/1654/rec/84
Here is the 1930 Official which all but shows US 151 ending at Park in the Madison inset - http://content.wisconsinhistory.org/cdm/compoundobject/collection/maps/id/14135/rec/126
All of the official Wisc maps from the 1930s except 1937 are on this page: http://content.wisconsinhistory.org/cdm/search/collection/maps/searchterm/madison!madison/field/all!city/mode/all!all/conn/and!and/order/title/page/7
Up through 1934 it shows the same as 1930. Afterwards it does not label roads as well.
The 1930-34 maps also show definitively that US 16 did not cut south to the ferry in the early days.
Like this, correct?
http://www.communitywalk.com/usendsWI#101q03X2d10643.@ZF8-89.1PBe0
(The 1927 map shows a different routing for US 151 than the 1928+ maps, but all suggest an endpoint on Univ. at Park.)
Thanks for the links. I have loved road maps (especially older ones) for my entire life. These links to maps of my city are much appreciated.
Quote from: usends on July 04, 2017, 10:41:20 AM
Like this, correct?
http://www.communitywalk.com/usendsWI#101q03X2d10643.@ZF8-89.1PBe0
(The 1927 map shows a different routing for US 151 than the 1928+ maps, but all suggest an endpoint on Univ. at Park.)
Two comments: the photograph with the highway marker signs was clearly taken east of the Gilman Street intersection with University Avenue close to Bassett Street. The other comment is that your routing uses the "Outer Ring" of Webster, Dayton, Fairchild, and Doty Streets. I believe all state and US highways were routed onto the Capitol Square using Pinckney, Mifflin, Carroll, and Main Streets at that time.
Quote from: midwesternroadguy on July 09, 2017, 07:12:30 AM
I believe all state and US highways were routed onto the Capitol Square using Pinckney, Mifflin, Carroll, and Main Streets at that time.
Thanks for the info, I have fixed that.
Quote from: midwesternroadguy on July 09, 2017, 07:12:30 AM
The photograph with the highway marker signs was clearly taken east of the Gilman Street intersection with University Avenue close to Bassett Street.
OK, so that confirms that the photo was taken post-1928. But on the 1927 map, rather than using Bassett and Washington, US 151 was depicted using Gilman and State (which is the route I drew in using darker green): http://www.communitywalk.com/usendsWI#101q03X2d10643.@ZF8-89.1PBe0
Why exactly did US 151 get re-routed onto the Beltline? Would it not have made more sense for it to continue straight into downtown?
Quote from: I-39 on July 15, 2017, 07:18:18 PM
Why exactly did US 151 get re-routed onto the Beltline? Would it not have made more sense for it to continue straight into downtown?
Because Nakoma Road is very much a residential street, and Monroe Street is "quasi residential." Both are pretty narrow with little room for truck traffic. Really not suitable as highways.
Park Street on the other hand is almost entirely businesses and is four lanes wide between the Beltline and downtown.
These days, it makes more sense for US 151 to take an all-freeway routing through Madison.
What's another quadruple multiplex? :-D
Quote from: triplemultiplex on July 18, 2017, 08:35:37 PM
These days, it makes more sense for US 151 to take an all-freeway routing through Madison.
What's another quadruple multiplex? :-D
Most definitely. Even if they want a highway to run down to the capitol area, I would advocate moving US-151 onto the Beltline and I-39/90 and turning the current route through town into something like WI-551. Having an expressway run from Fond du Lac to Dubuque, only to run along city streets in Madison, is really dumb.
I disagree. US 151 is fine where it is. Personally, I think if US 151 was going to be moved onto an all-freeway alignment through the Madison area, it would have been done long ago. I live very close to US 151's East Washington Avenue segment and cross 151 to get to the my local public library branch, so I'm used to it.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on July 19, 2017, 04:09:26 PM
I disagree. US 151 is fine where it is. Personally, I think if US 151 was going to be moved onto an all-freeway alignment through the Madison area, it would have been done long ago. I live very close to US 151's East Washington Avenue segment and cross 151 to get to the my local public library branch, so I'm used to it.
I'm sorry but I just don't think it makes sense to have a number that is expressway for 170 miles, run along city streets pretty much smack dab in the middle. Especially when there are freeway options available that are clearly preferable for through traffic.
I mean that's what route numbers are for. If you are driving between Dubuque and the Fox Valley area, you have to follow US-151 onto the Beltline, but continue along the Beltline when US-151 heads north onto Park Street, then take I-39/90, only to take US-151 again. It's nonsensical.
Maybe sign the expressway as US 151 Bypass? Is that even done any more?
Quote from: SEWIGuy on July 19, 2017, 09:51:19 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on July 19, 2017, 04:09:26 PM
I disagree. US 151 is fine where it is. Personally, I think if US 151 was going to be moved onto an all-freeway alignment through the Madison area, it would have been done long ago. I live very close to US 151's East Washington Avenue segment and cross 151 to get to the my local public library branch, so I'm used to it.
I'm sorry but I just don't think it makes sense to have a number that is expressway for 170 miles, run along city streets pretty much smack dab in the middle. Especially when there are freeway options available that are clearly preferable for through traffic.
I mean that's what route numbers are for. If you are driving between Dubuque and the Fox Valley area, you have to follow US-151 onto the Beltline, but continue along the Beltline when US-151 heads north onto Park Street, then take I-39/90, only to take US-151 again. It's nonsensical.
I agree. I'm guessing they left 151 as-is in the city so that there was a US route that pretty much led to the capitol. However that's not really the "through route" that anyone should take. Either set up a bypass route along I-90 and the Beltline, or move it there and replace 151 in the city with a state numbered route.
If you have a problem with US 151 going through Madison, contact the Wisconsin Department of Transportation and tell them to relocate US 151. I don't expect anything to change, though.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on July 20, 2017, 03:42:40 PM
If you have a problem with US 151 going through Madison, contact the Wisconsin Department of Transportation and tell them to relocate US 151. I don't expect anything to change, though.
Lighten up! Pretty sure we're still allowing opinions around here, no?
What they really need is a tunnel under Lake Mendota to make it much less of a headache to get from the NW to downtown without having to go in a circle. :D
While I wouldn't oppose a tunnel under either Lake Monona or Lake Mendota, I'm sure I am rather alone in that belief. Where exactly would the tunnel go? I personally don't have any ideas, but some of my fellow posters might.
Can we call this the Lake Mendota Hypotenuse? :pan:
Sorry, couldn't help myself... :spin:
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on July 19, 2017, 04:09:26 PM
Personally, I think if US 151 was going to be moved onto an all-freeway alignment through the Madison area, it would have been done long ago.
Look how long US 41 was kept on city streets in Milwaukee. There's precedent.
I figure the thru-town part becomes Bus 151.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 21, 2017, 02:41:06 AM
What they really need is a tunnel under Lake Mendota to make it much less of a headache to get from the NW to downtown without having to go in a circle. :D
Quote from: dcharlie on July 21, 2017, 04:08:03 PM
Can we call this the Lake Mendota Hypotenuse? :pan:
From the northwest? So connecting to the Town of Springfield. Therefore, it should be a monorail.
:-D
Quote from: triplemultiplex on July 22, 2017, 10:50:27 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on July 19, 2017, 04:09:26 PM
Personally, I think if US 151 was going to be moved onto an all-freeway alignment through the Madison area, it would have been done long ago.
Look how long US 41 was kept on city streets in Milwaukee. There's precedent.
I figure the thru-town part becomes Bus 151.
That would make the most sense. Or, failing that, designate a special Capitol Loop routing (much like what's been done in Lansing, MI).
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F7vejb4A.png&hash=4b0d3e65d538d01591ff7d92935732fbb07e0463)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimgur.com%2F7vejb4A&hash=9ecceb7c4f1fb2a99b3b795ab9025ab326d0e8f2)
Quote from: triplemultiplex on July 22, 2017, 10:50:27 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on July 19, 2017, 04:09:26 PM
Personally, I think if US 151 was going to be moved onto an all-freeway alignment through the Madison area, it would have been done long ago.
Look how long US 41 was kept on city streets in Milwaukee. There's precedent.
I figure the thru-town part becomes Bus 151.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 21, 2017, 02:41:06 AM
What they really need is a tunnel under Lake Mendota to make it much less of a headache to get from the NW to downtown without having to go in a circle. :D
Quote from: dcharlie on July 21, 2017, 04:08:03 PM
Can we call this the Lake Mendota Hypotenuse? :pan:
From the northwest? So connecting to the Town of Springfield. Therefore, it should be a monorail.
:-D
Without getting too much in the realm of fantasy, I had an idea years ago of keeping 151 on it's current location through Madison and designate the freeway/expressway parts of 151 as a northern I-37 that would go between Des Moines and Sheboygan. The local 151 in Madison would get a Bus I-37 on it as well. This way, the thru traffic could follow the interstate and the local traffic could follow what it has known for so long.
Quote from: hobsini2 on August 06, 2017, 05:06:26 PM
Without getting too much in the realm of fantasy, I had an idea years ago of keeping 151 on it's current location through Madison and designate the freeway/expressway parts of 151 as a northern I-37 that would go between Des Moines and Sheboygan. The local 151 in Madison would get a Bus I-37 on it as well. This way, the thru traffic could follow the interstate and the local traffic could follow what it has known for so long.
How abut making it Sioux City to Sheboygan and give it an E-W numbering? I-82, perhaps.
Quote from: Finrod on August 07, 2017, 11:22:27 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on August 06, 2017, 05:06:26 PM
Without getting too much in the realm of fantasy, I had an idea years ago of keeping 151 on it's current location through Madison and designate the freeway/expressway parts of 151 as a northern I-37 that would go between Des Moines and Sheboygan. The local 151 in Madison would get a Bus I-37 on it as well. This way, the thru traffic could follow the interstate and the local traffic could follow what it has known for so long.
How abut making it Sioux City to Sheboygan and give it an E-W numbering? I-82, perhaps.
Because there is zero reason to expand US-20 to four lanes west of I-35. In fact west of Waterloo it is largely barren.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 09, 2017, 08:29:30 AM
Quote from: Finrod on August 07, 2017, 11:22:27 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on August 06, 2017, 05:06:26 PM
Without getting too much in the realm of fantasy, I had an idea years ago of keeping 151 on it's current location through Madison and designate the freeway/expressway parts of 151 as a northern I-37 that would go between Des Moines and Sheboygan. The local 151 in Madison would get a Bus I-37 on it as well. This way, the thru traffic could follow the interstate and the local traffic could follow what it has known for so long.
How abut making it Sioux City to Sheboygan and give it an E-W numbering? I-82, perhaps.
Because there is zero reason to expand US-20 to four lanes west of I-35. In fact west of Waterloo it is largely barren.
Huh? It's all four lanes from Sioux City to Dubuque, innit?
Quote from: NE2 on August 09, 2017, 01:18:56 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 09, 2017, 08:29:30 AM
Quote from: Finrod on August 07, 2017, 11:22:27 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on August 06, 2017, 05:06:26 PM
Without getting too much in the realm of fantasy, I had an idea years ago of keeping 151 on it's current location through Madison and designate the freeway/expressway parts of 151 as a northern I-37 that would go between Des Moines and Sheboygan. The local 151 in Madison would get a Bus I-37 on it as well. This way, the thru traffic could follow the interstate and the local traffic could follow what it has known for so long.
How abut making it Sioux City to Sheboygan and give it an E-W numbering? I-82, perhaps.
Because there is zero reason to expand US-20 to four lanes west of I-35. In fact west of Waterloo it is largely barren.
Huh? It's all four lanes from Sioux City to Dubuque, innit?
Yeah I should have said freeway. Isn't there some two lane portions remaining between Sioux City and Fort Dodge?