Seemingly Unnecessary Pavement Resurfacing Illinois Department of Transportation

[Mamba205]

Perhaps someone has an answer to this. I noticed IDOT District 8 has been milling and repaving the concrete bridge approach slabs with asphalt, but there seems to be nothing wrong with the original pavement. I got to thinking they might be resurfacing the approaches to improve the transition of the traffic weight onto the bridge deck, reducing the stress on the structure, but the original pavement already gave a smooth transition onto the bridges. Could they be doing the resurfacing jobs just because they can, and not because there was/will be problems with the original pavement?

Some examples of this are on Interstate 270 at structures 060-0319 and 0320, and on IL 143/Berm Highway in Alton.

[Brandon]

^^  My question is, who is the political favor for?  This is Illinois and IDOT after all. 

[Mamba205]

^^  My question is, who is the political favor for?  This is Illinois and IDOT after all. 

That's what I'm wondering. Perhaps Illinois got funding for road projects, and the money had to be used by a certain time or else it would go elsewhere (say, to education). So, instead of using the money to fix roads that are in bad condition, they decided to resurface perfectly good pavement.

I don't like to assume, however, so what I said above is just a guess. Perhaps the pavement really did need to be resurfaced, but I really doubt it.

[hm insulators]

It's not just Illinois. About a year ago here in Phoenix, a short stretch of Glendale Avenue between 16th Street and Arizona 51 was repaved, even though the old pavement was in real good condition, while just to the west, especially between 7th Street and 15th Avenue, the pavement is just all shot to hell and full of holes and big cracks and all spiderwebbed.

And don't get me started on the perfectly good wheelchair ramps that were torn up and replaced with brand new ones!

[djsinco]

Shovel-ready ARRA!

[Rick Powell]

And don't get me started on the perfectly good wheelchair ramps that were torn up and replaced with brand new ones!

ADA ramp standards have changed over the years and some initially compliant rams are now not in compliance.  The city of Chicago's ADA ramp details have been unsuccessfully challenged in court and are now considered a model for other agencies, at least around here...it's a legal issue a lot of times where ADA is concerned.

[djsinco]

It is fantastic that Chicago has state of the art wheelchair ramps. They need them for all the gunshot victims... They really have their priorities straight there!

[kharvey10]

Mamba the one I could think of was in 2011 when IL 255 north of 270 was resurfaced when there is a section of I-255 at I-55/70 that was in piss poor shape to the point it needed emergency resurfacing following a week of 100+ degree days in early September

[djsinco]

I remember driving the East-West Tollway (now I-88, then IL Rt 5,) in the 1980's. There was a "crew" repaving a multi-mile stretch of the westbound lanes. What was different about this was that they were un-stacking and mixing the new pavement from 80 pound bags of cement. I expect this was sold to the state by Dan Rostenkowski or one of the other crown jewels of the IL political world.

[Brandon]

The Tollway is done differently from IDOT.

[seicer]

Are the surfaces not tined, and just treated with a burlap sack to provide a smooth finish? The Ohio DOT added a layer of asphalt to its non tined bridges quite some time back to add friction.

[Scott5114]

It is fantastic that Chicago has state of the art wheelchair ramps. They need them for all the gunshot victims... They really have their priorities straight there!

You say that as though the City of Chicago couldn't get sued for having substandard wheelchair ramps. Preventing money-draining lawsuits is a pretty valid priority.

[djsinco]

It is fantastic that Chicago has state of the art wheelchair ramps. They need them for all the gunshot victims... They really have their priorities straight there!

You say that as though the City of Chicago couldn't get sued for having substandard wheelchair ramps. Preventing money-draining lawsuits is a pretty valid priority.

How does the NYC MTA get away with hundreds of non-ADA compliant subway stations?

[Rick Powell]

How does the NYC MTA get away with hundreds of non-ADA compliant subway stations?

ADA does not grandfather non-compliant uses, but it does require that "once you touch it" with construction, no matter how minor, it must be made compliant.  there are rare exceptions for features integral to a historic structure, or if compliance would be an excessive burden (but it's normally a high bar to meet).  That is the reason why, on a highway resurfacing project, the ADA ramps must be brought up to today's standards even if they were once compliant when built.  The reasoning is that the roadway resurfacing in the crosswalk area "touches" a facility governed by ADA, and the adjoining ramps need to be compliant as well.  In Illinois, the state Attorney General is responsible for enforcing ADA compliance, and the states and cities often consult with their office in "gray area" situations where compliance is in question.

[Mamba205]

Mamba the one I could think of was in 2011 when IL 255 north of 270 was resurfaced when there is a section of I-255 at I-55/70 that was in piss poor shape to the point it needed emergency resurfacing following a week of 100+ degree days in early September

They didn't actually do a true resurfacing job on the stretch of IL 255 from I-270 to Poag Road. What they did was apply a microsurface overlay on top of the existing asphalt, which was the original surface from 1998. This doesn't really bother me because it's not really that costly, even though I still do not believe in resurfacing a pavement unless it has problem or will have a problem if it is not resurfaced. The original pavement had no problems.

The approach slab pavements on structures 060-0319 and 0320, which are a pair of bridges carrying I-270 over Judy's Branch Creek and bike trail in Glen Carbon near Exit 12, were milled and resurfaced in August 2011 for no reason. The original PCC pavement was smooth. I called IDOT and they said they are resurfacing the approach slabs to "get the nicks and bumps out." There were no nicks and bumps. A profilometer would have shown almost zero surface irregularities. IDOT did the same thing in July 2012 to the approach slabs on a set of bridges on IL 143 in Alton. That pavement, too, was in very satisfactory condition.

[Mamba205]

Are the surfaces not tined, and just treated with a burlap sack to provide a smooth finish? The Ohio DOT added a layer of asphalt to its non tined bridges quite some time back to add friction.

The approach slabs were tined and had good drainage qualities.