DFW Projects Thread

[kernals12]

I saw this stub on I-30 in Arlington and I wondered if it was a stub for a reconfigurated exit ramp or long range plans for a future widening of I-30? https://goo.gl/maps/LC8LQBbcQNM9cWwV7

Yes, the section from the point in your link to IH-820 (east) is slated to be widened to 10 main lanes. TxDOT is in the process of soliciting a consultant for the formal study

https://www.txdot.gov/business/consultants/architectural-engineering-surveying/meetings/061322.html
https://ftp.txdot.gov/pub/txdot/ppd/061322/presentation.pdf

It's funny, back in 1975, the Texas Turnpike Authority claimed they'd need to extend tolls on what was then the Dallas-Fort Worth Turnpike to widen the road

[MaxConcrete]

Bids were opened today for phase 2 of the I-30 Lake Ray Hubbard crossing. This phase will add frontage roads on new bridges, and also add full shoulders for the existing 4x4 main lanes from Dalrock Road to Rockwell, which is the eastern part of the crossing. Phase 1, which is the western side of the crossing, is currently in progress.

The good news is that it is on the estimate (and not much above). Of course, estimates have been adjusted upward due to inflation, and this is an expensive project.

http://www.dot.state.tx.us/insdtdot/orgchart/cmd/cserve/bidtab/10073201.htm

County:   ROCKWALL   Let Date:   10/07/22
Type:   WIDEN ROAD - ADD SHOULDERS   Seq No:   3201
Time:   0 X   Project ID:   C 9-12-220
Highway:   IH 30   Contract #:   10223201
Length:   3.149   CCSJ:   0009-12-220
Limits:   
From:   DALROCK RD (DALLAS C/L)   Check:   $100,000
To:   SH 205   Misc Cost:   
Estimate   $332,859,877.77   % Over/Under   Company
Bidder 1   $334,362,587.69   +0.45%   WILLIAMS BROTHERS CONSTRUCTION CO., INC.
Bidder 2   $337,994,594.60   +1.54%   SEMA CONSTRUCTION, INC.
Bidder 3   $375,571,566.47   +12.83%   AUSTIN BRIDGE & ROAD SERVICES, LP
Bidder 4   $449,933,742.47   +35.17%   WEBBER, LLC

[Stephane Dumas]

Speaking of Lake Ray Hubbard crossing, GSV have an updated view showing some of the pillars built for the new bridges.
https://goo.gl/maps/9i1QzNrHJnMeV7at5

[Road Hog]

The Dallas North Tollway frontage road is now open all the way to the Denton-Collin-Grayson County tri-point. Only a 2-lane road north of FM 428 with a speed limit of 45 mph and absolutely nothing but one old tractor in sight.

The intersection at 428 is now a 4-way stop, which is rocking everybody's world. And the FM 455 crossing is a completely blind intersection where cross traffic does not stop.

[rte66man]

The Dallas North Tollway frontage road is now open all the way to the Denton-Collin-Grayson County tri-point. Only a 2-lane road north of FM 428 with a speed limit of 45 mph and absolutely nothing but one old tractor in sight.

The intersection at 428 is now a 4-way stop, which is rocking everybody's world. And the FM 455 crossing is a completely blind intersection where cross traffic does not stop.

I'm assuming FM455 traffic doesn't stop but why is it blind? You don't have anything in Street View to see so that's why I'm asking.

[Road Hog]

The Dallas North Tollway frontage road is now open all the way to the Denton-Collin-Grayson County tri-point. Only a 2-lane road north of FM 428 with a speed limit of 45 mph and absolutely nothing but one old tractor in sight.

The intersection at 428 is now a 4-way stop, which is rocking everybody's world. And the FM 455 crossing is a completely blind intersection where cross traffic does not stop.

I'm assuming FM455 traffic doesn't stop but why is it blind? You don't have anything in Street View to see so that's why I'm asking.

There is an incline and sharp curve on 455 on the west side. Traffic on the extension crossing over 455 cannot see oncoming vehicles at 55 mph until those vehicles are almost right at the intersection. It is an extreme hazard and justifies a 4-way stop there, more so than down at 428 where the visibility is much better.

[Road Hog]

The hits keep coming. The Collin County Outer Loop frontage road is now open between the future Dallas North Tollway and Custer Road.

https://starlocalmedia.com/celinarecord/celina-collin-county-celebrate-opening-of-new-segment-of-outer-loop/article_7d29546a-4b38-11ed-888a-8bf06e2e3cd9.html

[armadillo speedbump]

Google Earth has updated sat images for greater DFW to between June and August of 2022.  While looking in awe at how much new housing continues to spring up, I noticed some projects have shown significant improvements.

The loop around Weatherford has visible construction now for the remainder of the route north of I-20.

You can see the new connector in Haslet between Avondale-Haslet Road and I-35W/170.  Only gap not started is the 1/4 mile east of Blue Mound Road.  But Int'l Parkway is extended south so when that and the connector east of there opens it will be a big relief to the overloaded and seemingly never will be finished I-35W/Westport Pkwy intersection.

South of Lancaster a feeder road for Loop 9 is under construction from I-35E to I-45.

The ROW clearing in central Lewisville along I-35E, mentioned a page earlier, is visible.

[Bobby5280]

Quite a few homes are going up rapidly just West of the Northwest ISD complex by TX-114. A lot of that progress is visible via 6/2022 overhead imagery. One of these developments is Trails of Elizabeth Creek. That one will probably result in a new traffic signal on TX-114 at Holland Hill Lane. The segment of TX-114 between US-287 and I-35W used to be pretty much free-flowing. There is at least four traffic signals along that stretch of TX-114 currently. It looks like signals could be added at seven more intersections as various home development projects along TX-114 add more and more units.

[armadillo speedbump]

114 through there is a 240' ROW, so there's room to add overpasses when the time comes.  Though the current lanes will have to be rebuilt as feeder roads closer to the outer edges of the ROW.

Not brilliant foresight in initial construction, but I would guess that was the result of NIMBY local politicians at the time didn't want a future freeway.  "We're country folks and want to keep it that way, Dallas and Fort Worth will never reach this far out."  I saw it time and again at meetings a couple of decades ago.  Much easier to play to the NIMBY loudmouths of their constituents than to properly plan for the future.  When the freeway becomes actually needed they'll be out of office and it's someone else's problem.

[Bobby5280]

While it's possible to fit frontage roads and freeway main lanes within a 240' wide ROW it creates a challenge of how to handle grading and water drainage. Currently the EB and WB main lanes have a 70' wide grassy median and about 45' of space past the shoulders for gulleys.

If that portion of TX-114 was upgraded into a freeway the project would obviously require the EB and WB main lanes to be butted up against each other (separated only by a concrete Jersey barrier) to save space. That kind of design would need at least 74' to 80' to accommodate four main lanes, a pair of 10' shoulders and a center median (with Jersey barrier) between 8' and 12' wide. The recently completed US-287 freeway exit project East of Midlothian at Walnut Grove Road and Plainview Road has a ROW about 300' wide. The freeway portion is 90' wide.

Not brilliant foresight in initial construction, but I would guess that was the result of NIMBY local politicians at the time didn't want a future freeway.  "We're country folks and want to keep it that way, Dallas and Fort Worth will never reach this far out."

The NIMBY folks out there between Rhome and Roanoke will soon be covered in sprawl. They're going to be crammed in just as tight as Keller nearby. A decade from now TX-114 between US-287 and I-35W will likely have at least a dozen or more signal controlled intersections. The traffic situation will suck. Too many things nearby are drawing traffic: the speedway, the Northwest ISD complex, Tanger Outlets, Buc-ee's, other misc. stores and all those freaking warehouses.

[MaxConcrete]

In the attachments for the September and October TxDOT commission meetings, I noticed a large amount of right-of-way acquisition for the west Loop 288 in Denton.

September: 126 acres
October: 104 acres

Total: 230 acres

This is good news. Some folks (including me) have expressed concern about lack of corridor protection in North Texas, but this is a case where the land is being acquired before development arrives.

Reviewing the ROW maps, the corridor is generally a minimum of 400 feet wide, but drops below 400 feet in a couple spots (375 and 385 feet) for no apparent reason, since there is undeveloped property adjacent to the corridor.

For reference, one mile of a 400-foot-wide corridor requires 48.5 acres. So this acquisition covers about 4.75 miles of the 8-mile western loop.

[MaxConcrete]

Another budget-busting bid opening, this time for IH-30 in Rockwall county.
http://www.dot.state.tx.us/insdtdot/orgchart/cmd/cserve/bidtab/11023001.htm

I was expecting Williams to bid low since they won the contract on the adjacent section and they will already be mobilized. But apparently they were not really interested in the job since they bid super high.
Using a length of 9.2 miles (SH 205 to county line), this is $55 million per mile.

County:   ROCKWALL   Let Date:   11/02/22
Type:   GRADING,ACP,STRS,SIGNING,PAVEMENT   Seq No:   3001
Time:   0 X   Project ID:   F 2023(166)
Highway:   IH 30   Contract #:   11223001
Length:   10.390   CCSJ:   0009-12-219
Limits:   
From:   SH205   Check:   $100,000
To:   WEST OF FM2642 (HUNT C/L)   Misc Cost:   
Estimate   $413,700,705.24   % Over/Under   Company
Bidder 1   $510,166,221.75   +23.32%   AUSTIN BRIDGE & ROAD SERVICES, LP
Bidder 2   $516,518,373.39   +24.85%   WEBBER, LLC
Bidder 3   $617,891,611.64   +49.36%   WILLIAMS BROTHERS CONSTRUCTION CO., INC.

This section is very old. It was the first highway in Texas to have the official interstate sign installed, in 1958. I'm not familiar with this segment, but I think it is mostly in its original configuration.

[Bobby5280]

Interesting trivia in that image.

[Alps]

Another budget-busting bid opening, this time for IH-30 in Rockwall county.
http://www.dot.state.tx.us/insdtdot/orgchart/cmd/cserve/bidtab/11023001.htm

I was expecting Williams to bid low since they won the contract on the adjacent section and they will already be mobilized. But apparently they were not really interested in the job since they bid super high.
Using a length of 9.2 miles (SH 205 to county line), this is $55 million per mile.

County:   ROCKWALL   Let Date:   11/02/22
Type:   GRADING,ACP,STRS,SIGNING,PAVEMENT   Seq No:   3001
Time:   0 X   Project ID:   F 2023(166)
Highway:   IH 30   Contract #:   11223001
Length:   10.390   CCSJ:   0009-12-219
Limits:   
From:   SH205   Check:   $100,000
To:   WEST OF FM2642 (HUNT C/L)   Misc Cost:   
Estimate   $413,700,705.24   % Over/Under   Company
Bidder 1   $510,166,221.75   +23.32%   AUSTIN BRIDGE & ROAD SERVICES, LP
Bidder 2   $516,518,373.39   +24.85%   WEBBER, LLC
Bidder 3   $617,891,611.64   +49.36%   WILLIAMS BROTHERS CONSTRUCTION CO., INC.

This section is very old. It was the first highway in Texas to have the official interstate sign installed, in 1958. I'm not familiar with this segment, but I think it is mostly in its original configuration.

Can always question when the estimate was generated. Companies may be predicting spikes in prices that aren't reflected in the estimate (think asphalt and concrete here).

[Chris]

$ 55 million per mile sounds high considering that several bridges on this stretch of I-30 were already replaced by wider bridges in recent years.

west to east;

* bridge over SH 205, replaced by wider structure in 2008
* bridge over FM 551, built new when overpass was replaced by interchange in 2015
* bridge over Erby Campbell Road in Royse City, replaced when interchange was built in 2015
* bridge over FM 2642 replaced by wider structure in 2019

These bridges all feature space for six lanes and shoulders.

[MaxConcrete]

$ 55 million per mile sounds high considering that several bridges on this stretch of I-30 were already replaced by wider bridges in recent years.

west to east;

* bridge over SH 205, replaced by wider structure in 2008
* bridge over FM 551, built new when overpass was replaced by interchange in 2015
* bridge over Erby Campbell Road in Royse City, replaced when interchange was built in 2015
* bridge over FM 2642 replaced by wider structure in 2019

These bridges all feature space for six lanes and shoulders.

As Alps mentioned, the contractors may be bidding high to protect themselves in case inflation remains high (5 to 10%) for the duration of the construction period.

That's a well-known problem with inflation. When it becomes established and embedded into people's behavior, it becomes more difficult to bring the inflation rate back down.

[motorola870]

https://twitter.com/CityOfArlington/status/1588229926087712773

Southeast Connector construction begins March 2023. TXDOT is clearing land at Park Springs and I20 for staging areas.

[bwana39]

Another budget-busting bid opening, this time for IH-30 in Rockwall county.
http://www.dot.state.tx.us/insdtdot/orgchart/cmd/cserve/bidtab/11023001.htm

I was expecting Williams to bid low since they won the contract on the adjacent section and they will already be mobilized. But apparently they were not really interested in the job since they bid super high.
Using a length of 9.2 miles (SH 205 to county line), this is $55 million per mile.

County:   ROCKWALL   Let Date:   11/02/22
Type:   GRADING,ACP,STRS,SIGNING,PAVEMENT   Seq No:   3001
Time:   0 X   Project ID:   F 2023(166)
Highway:   IH 30   Contract #:   11223001
Length:   10.390   CCSJ:   0009-12-219
Limits:   
From:   SH205   Check:   $100,000
To:   WEST OF FM2642 (HUNT C/L)   Misc Cost:   
Estimate   $413,700,705.24   % Over/Under   Company
Bidder 1   $510,166,221.75   +23.32%   AUSTIN BRIDGE & ROAD SERVICES, LP
Bidder 2   $516,518,373.39   +24.85%   WEBBER, LLC
Bidder 3   $617,891,611.64   +49.36%   WILLIAMS BROTHERS CONSTRUCTION CO., INC.

This section is very old. It was the first highway in Texas to have the official interstate sign installed, in 1958. I'm not familiar with this segment, but I think it is mostly in its original configuration.

The part east of Erby Campbell is pre 1970 except for the overpass at FM2642 which was rebuilt and widened about the time Buckees was built there. The parts from just west of FM 548 to the Hunt County line except for the 2642 intersection all need a complete replacement INCLUDING the frontage roads.

The frontage roads between Rockwall and Royse City are in the end stages of replacement already. This SHOULD be nothing except replacing the main lanes and widening in the process.

This price tag might make sense if it were the portion from the Dallas County Line to SH 205 (or even just Ridge Road)? It has a big swath over Ray Hubbard Reservoir and that construction is widen the main lanes AND construct frontage roads over the lake.


That said, Owing to the fact that this is a very old section of road, there is probably minimal microengineering already done. This could realistically be half or more in engineering costs. I am not that sure the micro-engineering in replacing existent roadways are a good use of our limited funds.

[MaxConcrete]

NTTA has announced that the environmental study for the east Bush Turnpike extension (I-30 to I-20) has resumed.

https://www.ntta.org/newsresources/reports/projectprogressreports/Documents/current_cpr/CPR_EastBranch_secure.pdf  (includes map)

Planning on this section was dormant for a long time, so I was starting to become concerned about it. I'm hoping NTTA is completing the study to get environmental clearance so they can promptly begin construction.

The weird alignment option along Lawson Road near I-20 appears to be an option to avoid routing the tollway in the floodplain, which presumably is environmentally sensitive. But the Lawson road alignment takes it near more residential areas. Of course I always prefer direct, efficient alignments, but in North Texas the swerving inefficient alignments can't be ruled out. The flood plain alignment is 2 miles long, and may need to be elevated (=expensive).

[Plutonic Panda]

Would it be more expensive than just taking out existing homes and building a straighter, direct path? Seems like that would be preferable.

[MaxConcrete]

Would it be more expensive than just taking out existing homes and building a straighter, direct path? Seems like that would be preferable.

Maybe, but it appears that previous studies have narrowed the alignment as shown in the map, with only those two areas still subject to a decision. Displacing homes seems to be a political nonstarter these days, which explains the two options near I-20.

The two options near I-20 have been defined for a while, I'm thinking 10 years (before the project became dormant). NCTCOG long-term maps show the direct alignment, but apparently it's not officially determined yet.
https://www.nctcog.org/getmedia/d0fdd96b-bc02-4523-b844-d6fe32ce0711/Map-Packet-June-2022.pdf

[Bobby5280]

No matter what the NTTA does with extending the East side of the Bush Turnpike down to I-20 the route will eat a lot of properties.

I'm not all that sympathetic to property owners who deliberately built apartments and homes in what would likely be the turnpike expansion path. There is a huge complex of apartments directly on the other side of the Y interchange with I-30 and the East terminus of the Bush Turnpike. Embree Hill Apartments has been building a big new expansion right there. This plan to extend the Bush Turnpike down to I-20 has been in the works for decades.

[Plutonic Panda]

^^^ it's irritating that more work isn't done to prevent that very situation to begin with. Same thing with the Kilpatrick turnpike extension. It seems like it shouldn't be too much work to simply work with other government agencies like counties and municipalities to block development or buy the ROW before it a) becomes expensive and b) gets eaten up by development.

[Bobby5280]

I think the problem is a side effect of the worsening political environment over the past 20 or so years. Politicians at both the state and federal level are rarely not in campaign mode. They're more interested in short-term, quick effect ideas than anything requiring a long term plan. Buying a bunch of empty land to preserve as future super-highway right of way and let it sit empty doesn't thrill any modern day politicians. They can't take credit for a super-highway that gets built on that empty land 10 or 20 years later, long after they've left office. If they pass a tax cut that gives an immediate rush to voters.

Certain "reforms" over the years to battle pork barrel spending have reduced the amount of bi-partisan deal-making. There is less incentive for lawmakers to "reach across the aisle" to win votes to get specific things done -like long term infrastructure plans. Combine that with the sheer tyranny of 24 hour cable news networks. Those channels (and certain other media outlets) captivate viewers with fear and anger almost like a form of pornography. The media outlets make a LOT of ad money broadcasting it. The media loves devoting its attention to the loudest mouths. The media didn't have this much power to pick winners 30 years ago. So politicians have to play the media's game to get attention. And they do that by playing to their partisan base rather than being moderate and practical.

Texas used to be really good at long term highway corridor preservation. The state started lapsing on that 30 years ago, as the political environment was changing. Buying ROW for a possible future freeway requires spending tax dollars on something that might not be built for at least a decade or more. A lot of people (or rival candidates) might see that as wasteful spending.

That's my theory on it anyway.