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I-10 at-grade intersections in west Texas

Started by DJStephens, May 17, 2021, 07:56:54 AM

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Upgrade The Boulevard?

Rail Bridge.
0 (0%)
Frontage Road Bridge.
0 (0%)
Highway Bridge.
1 (6.7%)
Finish Widening It.
0 (0%)
Finish Paving It.
1 (6.7%)
Add Interchange.
1 (6.7%)
Add The Frontage Road On The Other Side.
1 (6.7%)
All Of The Above.
5 (33.3%)
None Of The Above.
4 (26.7%)
Other.
2 (13.3%)

Total Members Voted: 15

In_Correct

Quote from: Avalanchez71 on May 22, 2021, 07:20:17 AM
Quote from: In_Correct on May 22, 2021, 06:13:08 AM
That makes sense. But it is time for the At Grade Intersections to go away or it risks even more of them being added.

They had a couple of at grades on I-70 and it was two lanes in UT.  They wasted money on turning it into four lanes and putting up exits.  The area did not need any of that as it as such a low AADT.  There are holes in the system as no system needs to be absolute or rigid.

And if they did not construct the required grade separated exit, it would risk an increase of Breezewoods.
Drive Safely. :sombrero: Ride Safely. And Build More Roads, Rails, And Bridges. :coffee: ... Boulevards Wear Faster Than Interstates.


sparker

Quote from: rte66man on May 22, 2021, 12:32:30 PM
Quote from: sparker on May 21, 2021, 08:21:21 PM
Looking at a GSV of the section of I-10 on either side of Sierra Blanca, the presence of the at-grade intersections may well be a matter of "follow the money" rather than simple local accommodation.  There are four such intersections; one west of that town (the one pictured in the post above) and three to the east.  The one to the west feeds directly north to a corporate gate, behind which is a large roundabout and a divided private road to a mining facility a couple of miles to the north; a RR spur also accesses that mine (and GSV depicted a rather long train at the mine's ostensible loading facility, so it looks to be pretty active)..........

But one thing that showed when backing out of GSV to standard GE was that traffic coming from the mining facility showed a definite wear pattern when turning east on old US 80 toward Sierra Blanca itself; it didn't seem like the I-10 grade crossing got a lot of use in that regard.  Another guess -- trucks going to and from the mine head into town, while the crossing gets used sporadically by employees and other individuals heading to points west of the mine along I-10.     

I work in the aggregates industry so I took a closer look at the quarry. They have a truck scale at the north end but it doesn't look as if it is active. Based on the traffic patterns of the water truck (why some of the dirt is darker, an MHSA requirement) and the lack of any meaningful endpoint within driving distance, I believe this to be a 100% rail facility. The workers would all head back to tow after shifts hence the traffic pattern you see at the south end. That quarry is too far away from any developed area for it to make sense to do anything but ship by rail.

I looked them up. It is active and is run by Sierra Blanca Quarry, LLC, which looks to be a family-run business.  They run M-F on 10 hour shifts. I would guess they are selling to a stone yard in El Paso or other convenient pickup location.

It makes sense that the quarry/mine is locally owned & operated; it's likely there's some sort of relationship -- personal or even financial -- between any state legislators from this area and what appears to be one of the major employers in that rather isolated area -- or at least some acknowlegement that the facility has specific needs.  But that revelation doesn't cast much light as to why the I-10 at-grade intersection persists there; it's probable that whatever traffic (personnel, etc.) is required to access the facility could simply use old US 80/the frontage road to get where they needed to go -- east into Sierra Blanca itself or west to the next I-10 interchange.  It's possible that whatever is south of I-10 -- and it looks like more ranch-related activity -- may be the driving force behind retention of the crossing (in a similar fashion to the other three intersections to the east).  But again, there's not a lot of commercial activity in this neck of the woods; and it's more than likely that even if bunched together, this county's ranches wouldn't be able to scrape together enough available cash to contribute to funding of a grade separation much less an interchange.  Hence the "waiver" of standards (or simply willfull avoidance of applying such) for I-10 in this area.  As I posited before, unless there's some sort of incident stemming from a crossing/turning movement onto or off of these side roads, these will likely continue to exist.

sparker

#52
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The poster above detailed the activities of the quarry/mine in question over in the "Re: I-10 expansion between San Antonio & Houston" thread in this board; reply #109 [now reply #50 in this thread -S.] -- that answers a lot of these questions.   

sparker

Quote from: sparker on May 22, 2021, 03:13:32 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The poster above detailed the activities of the quarry/mine in question over in the "Re: I-10 expansion between San Antonio & Houston" thread in this board; reply #109 [now reply #50 in this thread -S.] -- that answers a lot of these questions.   

Thanks -- when the thread description has been stretched that far, a change is needed, especially when there's so many opinions among the posters about the efficacy of the intersections at issue that have functionally zero to do with the principal thread! 

In_Correct

#54
Interstate 10 at least in Texas should be upgraded to Toll Roads. That would address the concerns about "Nothing Is Free.". It would also address the At Grade Intersections by either closing them and redirect to Frontage Roads instead. Or even better: To have the Grade Separated Interchanges:

https://i.imgur.com/XBAJ74O.jpg

( How ever, Toll Roads would require slightly modified Interchanges; Often they have only the Bridges. )

to provide more convenience for Etholen. Building A Bridge spanning Interstate 10 in Etholen also corrects the problem of the Rail Road At Grade Crossings ...

Here is yet another one:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/The+Blvd,+Texas/@31.2140385,-105.4598249,21z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x86e667d927816855:0xe3c7d01b9f5503cb!8m2!3d31.2402352!4d-105.3953681

https://www.google.com/maps/place/The+Blvd,+Texas/@31.2140385,-105.4598249,27m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x86e667d927816855:0xe3c7d01b9f5503cb!8m2!3d31.2402352!4d-105.3953681

... As long as the Bridge is long and goes over the Frontage Roads also. Interstate 35 does this.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Denton,+TX/@33.3503114,-97.1819197,18z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x864c4ca0c088b1d1:0x724474cb4814fb1b!8m2!3d33.2148412!4d-97.1330683

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Denton,+TX/@33.3503114,-97.1819197,213m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x864c4ca0c088b1d1:0x724474cb4814fb1b!8m2!3d33.2148412!4d-97.1330683

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.3507338,-97.1823877,3a,67.2y,160.65h,89.78t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sbtFYSW7VirNoHpilTkx5YA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DbtFYSW7VirNoHpilTkx5YA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D100.95997%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

Even now, they can simply close the At Grade Intersections as both The Boulevard (twice actually) and Cowser Road also can be accessed with: R.M. 1111.
Drive Safely. :sombrero: Ride Safely. And Build More Roads, Rails, And Bridges. :coffee: ... Boulevards Wear Faster Than Interstates.

Avalanchez71

Quote from: In_Correct on May 23, 2021, 11:22:34 PM
Interstate 10 at least in Texas should be upgraded to Toll Roads. That would address the concerns about "Nothing Is Free.". It would also address the At Grade Intersections by either closing them and redirect to Frontage Roads instead. Or even better: To have the Grade Separated Interchanges:

https://i.imgur.com/XBAJ74O.jpg

( How ever, Toll Roads would require slightly modified Interchanges; Often they have only the Bridges. )

to provide more convenience for Etholen. Building A Bridge spanning Interstate 10 in Etholen also corrects the problem of the Rail Road At Grade Crossings ...

Here is yet another one:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/The+Blvd,+Texas/@31.2140385,-105.4598249,21z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x86e667d927816855:0xe3c7d01b9f5503cb!8m2!3d31.2402352!4d-105.3953681

https://www.google.com/maps/place/The+Blvd,+Texas/@31.2140385,-105.4598249,27m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x86e667d927816855:0xe3c7d01b9f5503cb!8m2!3d31.2402352!4d-105.3953681

... As long as the Bridge is long and goes over the Frontage Roads also. Interstate 35 does this.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Denton,+TX/@33.3503114,-97.1819197,18z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x864c4ca0c088b1d1:0x724474cb4814fb1b!8m2!3d33.2148412!4d-97.1330683

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Denton,+TX/@33.3503114,-97.1819197,213m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x864c4ca0c088b1d1:0x724474cb4814fb1b!8m2!3d33.2148412!4d-97.1330683

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.3507338,-97.1823877,3a,67.2y,160.65h,89.78t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sbtFYSW7VirNoHpilTkx5YA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DbtFYSW7VirNoHpilTkx5YA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D100.95997%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

Even now, they can simply close the At Grade Intersections as both The Boulevard (twice actually) and Cowser Road also can be accessed with: R.M. 1111.

Why close the at-grade?  How far is the distance to The Boulevard and Cowser Road?  What are the road conditions?  US 80 was open for decades prior to I-10 being designated.  What is the benefit of closing off the at-grade?

I am sure those that use this access know how to use the access.

Scott5114

Quote from: Avalanchez71 on May 24, 2021, 08:01:17 AM
Why close the at-grade?

Because it's funny to watch you lose your shit any time the government does anything.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

sprjus4

Quote from: Scott5114 on May 24, 2021, 09:43:35 AM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on May 24, 2021, 08:01:17 AM
Why close the at-grade?

Because it's funny to watch you lose your shit any time the government does anything.
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

OCGuy81

Granted, I'm a roadgeek, and like seeing interstates adhere to standards, but do these at-grade crossings really need to be addressed?  I'm pretty sure TxDOT has much larger fis to fry, like completing I-69.

sparker

Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 24, 2021, 07:16:11 PM
Granted, I'm a roadgeek, and like seeing interstates adhere to standards, but do these at-grade crossings really need to be addressed?  I'm pretty sure TxDOT has much larger fis to fry, like completing I-69.

Since they've persisted for over three decades, it's pretty clear that no particular agency, be it TxDOT, FHWA, or even AASHTO intends to prioritize any remedy or even mandate such a change.  It would take a serious (meaning one that's reported beyond local press or police logs) incident, probably involving loss of life, to prompt even an examination/review of the situation.  It'll likely be status quo otherwise.

Avalanchez71

Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 24, 2021, 07:16:11 PM
Granted, I'm a roadgeek, and like seeing interstates adhere to standards, but do these at-grade crossings really need to be addressed?  I'm pretty sure TxDOT has much larger fis to fry, like completing I-69.

US 77 through Kenedy County is more than sufficient.  I don't see the use of I-69 through there.  Then north of Houston is well covered by other routes as well.

These at-grades were acceptable at the time.  Early interstates had things such as super-twos, immediate exits, railroad crossings and left turn exits.

sprjus4

Quote from: Avalanchez71 on May 25, 2021, 08:08:07 AM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 24, 2021, 07:16:11 PM
Granted, I'm a roadgeek, and like seeing interstates adhere to standards, but do these at-grade crossings really need to be addressed?  I'm pretty sure TxDOT has much larger fis to fry, like completing I-69.

US 77 through Kenedy County is more than sufficient.  I don't see the use of I-69 through there.  Then north of Houston is well covered by other routes as well.

These at-grades were acceptable at the time.  Early interstates had things such as super-twos, immediate exits, railroad crossings and left turn exits.
:poke: :poke: :poke:

sparker

Quote from: sprjus4 on May 25, 2021, 08:53:19 AM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on May 25, 2021, 08:08:07 AM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 24, 2021, 07:16:11 PM
Granted, I'm a roadgeek, and like seeing interstates adhere to standards, but do these at-grade crossings really need to be addressed?  I'm pretty sure TxDOT has much larger fis to fry, like completing I-69.

US 77 through Kenedy County is more than sufficient.  I don't see the use of I-69 through there.  Then north of Houston is well covered by other routes as well.

These at-grades were acceptable at the time.  Early interstates had things such as super-twos, immediate exits, railroad crossings and left turn exits.
:poke: :poke: :poke:

All temporary measures within partial construction; for the most part later rectified.  Honestly, the BANANA attitude just isn't aging well!

ran4sh

#63
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on May 25, 2021, 08:08:07 AM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 24, 2021, 07:16:11 PM
Granted, I'm a roadgeek, and like seeing interstates adhere to standards, but do these at-grade crossings really need to be addressed?  I'm pretty sure TxDOT has much larger fis to fry, like completing I-69.

US 77 through Kenedy County is more than sufficient.  I don't see the use of I-69 through there.  Then north of Houston is well covered by other routes as well.

These at-grades were acceptable at the time.  Early interstates had things such as super-twos, immediate exits, railroad crossings and left turn exits.

A lot of things that were "acceptable at the time" were changed because it was eventually determined to be unsafe - such as immediate exits, railroad crossings of freeways, and left exits.
Control cities CAN be off the route! Control cities make NO sense if signs end before the city is reached!

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ethanhopkin14

This is the one that infuriates me the most.  There is simply no reason for it.  To the east of the gate/driveway, not even a mile, just past the parking area is an underpass for Lasca Road, and an eastbound entrance ramp, so you don't have to go far to be on the eastbound I-10 main lanes.  You can circle there if you want to go westbound, or you just go west from the driveway on the two way frontage road to FM 34 where you can cross over.  Yes, that's 10 miles away, but the going east to go west routine works pretty good if you want to get up to 80 mph as quick as you can. 

The only thing I can think of is the ranch owner there negotiated some sort of clause when the state bought the right-of-way for I-10 that states that he must have immediate access to the main lanes of both directions of the interstate.  Meaning, his driveway gets a full diamond interchange with an overpass, or they go cheep and build an at-grade intersection.  That has to be the reason because there is simply no other reason to have an at-grade intersection here. 

wxfree

I don't want to be too unreasonable and unforgiving about these crossings, but the one at The Blvd. (I like it better that way) does not need to exist.  Maybe it's needed for Cowser Rd. but there's no reason to have the connection between the frontage road and the main lanes.  The frontage road goes east and west to proper interchanges, so traffic to or from either direction can go that way without backtracking.  Most of these grade crossings exist because there's no other way to go, or because the other way to go is very indirect, but this one exists because "I'd rather get directly to the freeway."  There is a paved state-maintained road that will get you to the freeway without backtracking through safe interchanges.  That shouldn't be optional.
I'd like to buy a vowel, Alex.  What is E?

Avalanchez71

Quote from: wxfree on May 25, 2021, 10:53:11 PM
I don't want to be too unreasonable and unforgiving about these crossings, but the one at The Blvd. (I like it better that way) does not need to exist.  Maybe it's needed for Cowser Rd. but there's no reason to have the connection between the frontage road and the main lanes.  The frontage road goes east and west to proper interchanges, so traffic to or from either direction can go that way without backtracking.  Most of these grade crossings exist because there's no other way to go, or because the other way to go is very indirect, but this one exists because "I'd rather get directly to the freeway."  There is a paved state-maintained road that will get you to the freeway without backtracking through safe interchanges.  That shouldn't be optional.

Have you actually driven this routing?  It is an interesting situation.  Was the interchange built much later and the ranch access just not closed off?

wxfree

I've been by on the freeway.  I've never driven that section of frontage road.

According to the highway maps, the freeway, frontage road, and both interchanges existed in 1972.  The map shows no Boulevard.  According to old aerial photos, Cowser Rd. intersected with the two-lane US 80 in 1963.  It would seem that the Interstate was built with the frontage road along the location of the old highway and the two relevant interchanges were in place from the beginning.  The 1982 photography shows the situation as it is now, three Interstate roadways and an intersecting road on both sides with a grade crossing.  They decided to allow the four-way grade crossing despite the frontage road and interchanges being available on the north side.

The 1963 imagery shows Lasca Rd. intersecting with a two-lane highway just east of the end of the new freeway.  Skunk Canyon Rd. is shown with a grade crossing when the freeway was first built.
I'd like to buy a vowel, Alex.  What is E?



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