I-66 HO/T Lanes

[1995hoo]

Thought you guys might be amused by which I-66 shield was used in this tweet–notably, that image is not in the linked WTOP story (including in the video), so I don't know whether VDOT chose the image or how it was determined. The only shield I know of that looks like that is the one on Saintsbury Drive at Nutley Street leaving the Vienna Metro station.

https://twitter.com/VaDOT/status/1572609331786567685

[bluecountry]

I can say enough thus far about how much of a bust the Express Lanes are.
So I totally agree with the idea that there should be a user fee as a more practical and equitable manner to pay for road expansion.
However, it is very clear here that with I-66, this is a product of current shitty 'democracy' if you can call it that system.

So you have 4 lanes before with full shoulders, then some consortium of private investors - who can't even have a real company name (who are they, the bilderbergs) - comes in and buys the rights to for 50 years for tolls, selling it as improvements that are market friendly.
Thus far, all I see is that in the regular lanes, it sucks.  The design speed, the traffic flow is worse, not only did you lose a lane, you do not have two full shoulders and the space just seems tighter.
So for 4 years we had this construction mess to make things worse?

It is so obvious these 'investors' artificially made the regular lanes more congested so they could push people into toll lanes for profit.
Gotta love our government, we got hospitals that are owned by hedge funds that squeeze medicare patients, and we got the same groups now making traffic worse and 'selling' it as some kind of smart growth.

The first rule of toll lanes is, NEW lanes are tolled, but you don't take away free lanes.

I'll reserve my final judgement for how the project looks from Rt 50 to the beltway....that was atrocious before as it went from 4 lanes to 3 lanes with a massive volume increase.  HOPEFULLY that section is a lot better, which in best case scenario, means we sacrificed the western part of 66 to improve the eastern part.  But for this much of a hassle with construction, you would think the entire corridor would be improved, not worsened!

Also, here's a problem....when I am going from Gainesville to Centreville, I used to have 4 lanes with full shoulders.
Now I have 3 with a tight squeeze, and I can't use the express lanes because there is no express lane exit to 29 or Rt 28 south!
Brillant!

Gotta love America, its all about the hedge funds, multinationals, and oligarchs.

[Plutonic Panda]

Wow I didn't realize they took away a lane for this. For some reason I recall watching a flyover simulation video that seemed to imply they were adding new tolled lanes and preserving the existing free lanes.

[sprjus4]

^ IIRC, the previous setup consisted of 3 general purpose lanes in either direction with 1 HOV lane that was open to all traffic outside of peak hours. The new setup includes 3 general purpose lanes with 2 HO/T lanes each way. I feel like the most benefit will be felt during peak hours, with some potential heavier conditions outside those times.

I feel like with how expansive the growth is in this area and heavy traffic volumes, the best solution would be to have done how I-495 was handled... 4 general purpose lanes with 2 HO/T in each direction. And exactly how I-95 should've been done as well... at least they got this part right with bi-direction versus reversible lanes.

[froggie]

^ IIRC, the previous setup consisted of 3 general purpose lanes in either direction with 1 HOV lane that was open to all traffic outside of peak hours.

West of 50, that is correct.  East of 50, there was always 3 general lanes per direction regardless of the time, with one of those 3 being rush-hour use of the shoulder when the inside lane become HOV.

[bluecountry]

^ IIRC, the previous setup consisted of 3 general purpose lanes in either direction with 1 HOV lane that was open to all traffic outside of peak hours. The new setup includes 3 general purpose lanes with 2 HO/T lanes each way. I feel like the most benefit will be felt during peak hours, with some potential heavier conditions outside those times.

I feel like with how expansive the growth is in this area and heavy traffic volumes, the best solution would be to have done how I-495 was handled... 4 general purpose lanes with 2 HO/T in each direction. And exactly how I-95 should've been done as well... at least they got this part right with bi-direction versus reversible lanes.

Yes, 66 west of 50 I feel is definitely WORSE with this project.
Of course, this was funded by a secret consortium of investors (called the I-66 partners) so this was the goal, artificially inflate congestion so people are forced to use the HOT lanes so the investor$ profit.

Of course I am for congestion pricing, but for NEW lanes, not currently free lanes, to better benefit sustainability not investors.

[bluecountry]

Few other I-66 related questions:

1.  Why is that the 28/66 intersection says 'junction' 66?  Junction is for when a route ends.

2.  Is I-66 inside the beltway finished, and if so, WTF. 
-What would have made sense is for 66EB to be 3 lanes from 495 to junction 267/DRT, then 5 lanes to RT 29, 4 lanes to Glebe, and 3 lanes to Rt 110.
   -I do not understand why 66EB is just 2 lanes at 495, there is clearly room for 3 and the DRT to 29 can fit 5 lanes and if not, then they should lose a lane at the merge.
-Moreover, it is so frustrating that the park and ride lot next to N Stafford Street for the GMU station just east of Glebe Road was clearly built to fit 3 if not 4 lanes but is just 2 lanes wide...that is a ready made project!  Hello, VDOT???

[Dirt Roads]

1.  Why is that the 28/66 intersection says 'junction' 66?  Junction is for when a route ends.

I'm not aware of any states that only use the M2-1 "JCT" or "JUNCTION" tab (auxiliary sign) only for route ends.  VDOT certainly uses the "JCT" tab in many locations where two key highways intersect, many of them at State Secondary Routes.  WVDOH uses them frequently, as well.  NCDOT is sporadic about using them, but sometimes overuses them (like when they put the "JCT" over the route that your are already on, or worse, like when they put the "JCT" tab on a trailblazer).

[oscar]

Few other I-66 related questions:

2.  Is I-66 inside the beltway finished, and if so, WTF. 
-What would have made sense is for 66EB to be 3 lanes from 495 to junction 267/DRT, then 5 lanes to RT 29, 4 lanes to Glebe, and 3 lanes to Rt 110.

Right of way constraints made it hard just to add a third "auxiliary lane" in each direction between Sycamore and Glebe, and even that required bending some design standards. Just for starters, Metrorail tracks in the middle, bike/pedestrian trails (one of them an important, and very popular, part of the regional bike trail system) on both sides, and also several parks on both sides.

Moreover, it is so frustrating that the park and ride lot next to N Stafford Street for the GMU station just east of Glebe Road was clearly built to fit 3 if not 4 lanes but is just 2 lanes wide...that is a ready made project!  Hello, VDOT???

It's not a park and ride for the Virginia Square/GMU station about three blocks to the south, rather it's parking for the adjacent Washington-Liberty (formerly Washington-Lee) high school.

I went to, and spoke briefly at, a VDOT presentation about I-66 widening through Arlington, to a very hostile crowd (I was one of only a few supporters in the audience, and perhaps the only one who lived in Arlington). VDOT presented three phases, one for an auxiliary lane in both directions under that parking garage between Glebe and route 29 to the east. That was billed as a cheap and feasible, but not terribly helpful, phase 3, and took a back seat to (phase 1) auxiliary lanes between Sycamore St. and Glebe, and (phase 2) adding auxiliary lanes between VA 267 and route 29 west of the East Falls Church Metrorail station. I was not shocked that VDOT stopped with the more important phases 1 and 2.

[bluecountry]

1.  Why is that the 28/66 intersection says 'junction' 66?  Junction is for when a route ends.

I'm not aware of any states that only use the M2-1 "JCT" or "JUNCTION" tab (auxiliary sign) only for route ends.  VDOT certainly uses the "JCT" tab in many locations where two key highways intersect, many of them at State Secondary Routes.  WVDOH uses them frequently, as well.  NCDOT is sporadic about using them, but sometimes overuses them (like when they put the "JCT" over the route that your are already on, or worse, like when they put the "JCT" tab on a trailblazer).

So what is the rule on junction, I always thought it was when a major route ends.

[bluecountry]

Few other I-66 related questions:

2.  Is I-66 inside the beltway finished, and if so, WTF. 
-What would have made sense is for 66EB to be 3 lanes from 495 to junction 267/DRT, then 5 lanes to RT 29, 4 lanes to Glebe, and 3 lanes to Rt 110.

Right of way constraints made it hard just to add a third "auxiliary lane" in each direction between Sycamore and Glebe, and even that required bending some design standards. Just for starters, Metrorail tracks in the middle, bike/pedestrian trails (one of them an important, and very popular, part of the regional bike trail system) on both sides, and also several parks on both sides.

Moreover, it is so frustrating that the park and ride lot next to N Stafford Street for the GMU station just east of Glebe Road was clearly built to fit 3 if not 4 lanes but is just 2 lanes wide...that is a ready made project!  Hello, VDOT???

It's not a park and ride for the Virginia Square/GMU station about three blocks to the south, rather it's parking for the adjacent Washington-Liberty (formerly Washington-Lee) high school.

I went to, and spoke briefly at, a VDOT presentation about I-66 widening through Arlington, to a very hostile crowd (I was one of only a few supporters in the audience, and perhaps the only one who lived in Arlington). VDOT presented three phases, one for an auxiliary lane in both directions under that parking garage between Glebe and route 29 to the east. That was billed as a cheap and feasible, but not terribly helpful, phase 3, and took a back seat to (phase 1) auxiliary lanes between Sycamore St. and Glebe, and (phase 2) adding auxiliary lanes between VA 267 and route 29 west of the East Falls Church Metrorail station. I was not shocked that VDOT stopped with the more important phases 1 and 2.

But the thing is, and what frustrates me, from 66 to Sycamore the ROW is there, you could easily do this expansion both way with zero takings.

Likewise, 8 lanes to Glebe and six from Glebe at least for the next mile could easily be done within the existing highway...it wouldn't be any tighter than 66 is now from Gainesville to Centreville.....which I gotta say...

[bluecountry]

I gotta say I am thoroughly upset at the awful job done on the 66 HOT lanes, PWC phase.
Wow, what a ripoff, we endured 5 years of constructions for this crap!

Let me tell, I have driven it non-peak, and the 'free' lanes are awful, they are so tight, aside from losing 1 lane, the shoulder is non-existent on the left and on the right, in some spots it is under 10 feet; all the more frustrating because they easily could have fit in 4 free lanes with full right shoulders - they didn't because the investors wanted to induce congestion.

This section is horrible, it is packed, and unsafe with the merging.
And the thing is, I get off at RT 29 in Centreville, where umm there is no express exit, and you can't exit to 28 South, unless you u-turn.

[74/171FAN]

I thought that there was still construction going on in regard to I-66.  Am I wrong?

[1995hoo]

I thought that there was still construction going on in regard to I-66.  Am I wrong?

I can't see bluecountry's posts, so I don't know what prompted the question, but yes, I-66 is quite under construction from Route 28 to the Beltway. The HO/T lanes are only open west of Route 28.

[Dirt Roads]

1.  Why is that the 28/66 intersection says 'junction' 66?  Junction is for when a route ends.

I'm not aware of any states that only use the M2-1 "JCT" or "JUNCTION" tab (auxiliary sign) only for route ends.  VDOT certainly uses the "JCT" tab in many locations where two key highways intersect, many of them at State Secondary Routes.  WVDOH uses them frequently, as well.  NCDOT is sporadic about using them, but sometimes overuses them (like when they put the "JCT" over the route that your are already on, or worse, like when they put the "JCT" tab on a trailblazer).

So what is the rule on junction, I always thought it was when a major route ends.

I've never seen any written guidance, but the M2-1 JUNCTION" tab (auxiliary sign) should be used wherever a route shield with advanced turn auxiliary signs (typically M5-1 left turn ahead arrow or M6-1 right turn ahead arrow) are not sufficient.  For instance, if northbound WV-14 is a left turn at the next intersection, then it is appropriate to have advance signage using an M3-1 (NORTH) auxiliary over top the WV-14 shield along with M5-1 (left turn ahead arrow); whereas later the WV-16 is used with an M2-1 JUNCTION" instead of an M3-1 (NORTH) over top the WV-16 shield along with an M6-3 (straight ahead arrow) plus an M3-2 (SOUTH) over top the WV-16 shield along with an M6-1 (right turn ahead arrow).  In other words, the M2-1 JUNCTION" tab saves an additional shield assembly on the advance signage.

But yes, the M2-1 JUNCTION" tab is useful in advance of a T-Bone intersection for the same exact reason.

[Alps]

I thought that there was still construction going on in regard to I-66.  Am I wrong?

I can't see bluecountry's posts, so I don't know what prompted the question, but yes, I-66 is quite under construction from Route 28 to the Beltway. The HO/T lanes are only open west of Route 28.

Yes you can. You can always click to open them.

[1995hoo]

I thought that there was still construction going on in regard to I-66.  Am I wrong?

I can't see bluecountry's posts, so I don't know what prompted the question, but yes, I-66 is quite under construction from Route 28 to the Beltway. The HO/T lanes are only open west of Route 28.

Yes you can. You can always click to open them.

Smartass. You know what I meant. I suppose I could have said "I don't see bluecountry's posts because I got fed up and put him on ignore," but I don't feel it's always necessary to go into so much detail just to make sure the hyperliteral users won't miss the nuance.

[Alps]

I thought that there was still construction going on in regard to I-66.  Am I wrong?

I can't see bluecountry's posts, so I don't know what prompted the question, but yes, I-66 is quite under construction from Route 28 to the Beltway. The HO/T lanes are only open west of Route 28.

Yes you can. You can always click to open them.

Smartass. You know what I meant. I suppose I could have said "I don't see bluecountry's posts because I got fed up and put him on ignore," but I don't feel it's always necessary to go into so much detail just to make sure the hyperliteral users won't miss the nuance.

I could put you on ignore but since I'm a moderator I would still have to click to open them. It's doable. Case closed.

[1995hoo]

I thought that there was still construction going on in regard to I-66.  Am I wrong?

I can't see bluecountry's posts, so I don't know what prompted the question, but yes, I-66 is quite under construction from Route 28 to the Beltway. The HO/T lanes are only open west of Route 28.

Yes you can. You can always click to open them.

Smartass. You know what I meant. I suppose I could have said "I don't see bluecountry's posts because I got fed up and put him on ignore," but I don't feel it's always necessary to go into so much detail just to make sure the hyperliteral users won't miss the nuance.

I could put you on ignore but since I'm a moderator I would still have to click to open them. It's doable. Case closed.

I never said it's "not doable," did I? Again, you knew exactly what I meant and you're just digging in your heels for no real reason. The level of hypertechnicality certain members of this forum seem to expect in how posts are wording never ceases to make me shake my head.

[MillTheRoadgeek]

I gotta say I am thoroughly upset at the awful job done on the 66 HOT lanes, PWC phase.
Wow, what a ripoff, we endured 5 years of constructions for this crap!

Let me tell, I have driven it non-peak, and the 'free' lanes are awful, they are so tight, aside from losing 1 lane, the shoulder is non-existent on the left and on the right, in some spots it is under 10 feet; all the more frustrating because they easily could have fit in 4 free lanes with full right shoulders - they didn't because the investors wanted to induce congestion.

This section is horrible, it is packed, and unsafe with the merging.
And the thing is, I get off at RT 29 in Centreville, where umm there is no express exit, and you can't exit to 28 South, unless you u-turn.

In this case I do think a slip ramp should be constructed before the 29 interchange.

[bluecountry]

I gotta say I am thoroughly upset at the awful job done on the 66 HOT lanes, PWC phase.
Wow, what a ripoff, we endured 5 years of constructions for this crap!

Let me tell, I have driven it non-peak, and the 'free' lanes are awful, they are so tight, aside from losing 1 lane, the shoulder is non-existent on the left and on the right, in some spots it is under 10 feet; all the more frustrating because they easily could have fit in 4 free lanes with full right shoulders - they didn't because the investors wanted to induce congestion.

This section is horrible, it is packed, and unsafe with the merging.
And the thing is, I get off at RT 29 in Centreville, where umm there is no express exit, and you can't exit to 28 South, unless you u-turn.

In this case I do think a slip ramp should be constructed before the 29 interchange.

OR, and this is what floors me, why not have a connection to 28 south?
I cannot believe for all the work they did, they did not restore a 66W, 28 S movement, especially because that would serve as a de facto bypass of 29 in Centreville.

[MillTheRoadgeek]

OR, and this is what floors me, why not have a connection to 28 south?
I cannot believe for all the work they did, they did not restore a 66W, 28 S movement, especially because that would serve as a de facto bypass of 29 in Centreville.

I get your point. Interestingly on the SB 28 to WB 66 Express Lanes ramp, there seems to be a stub as the flyover curves and descends downwards onto the interstate. I wonder if that's meant to be something along those lines?

[bluecountry]

I cannot describe it any better but it really seems that 66 express project, both the regular and express lanes, it feels much more crammed than I-495.

I-495 you do not feel squeezed, even though most areas do have the white scansions versus shoulder separation.
It just seems the outer shoulders are not 12 feet, it feels squished unlike 495.
What a disaster of a project.

[davewiecking]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2022/11/10/66-express-lanes-opening-beltway/

Remainder of the westbound lanes to open November 19. Eastbound by the end of the month.

[1995hoo]

^^^^^

Also, significantly, the number of occupants needed to ride free inside the Beltway will increase to three (from the current two) on Monday, December 5. I haven't been on I-66 in about a month, so I don't know how well they're publicizing it. Fairness to people who currently ride free on there would suggest some pretty significant publicity is warranted.

The Post article annoys me, however, because of the following paragraph. That reporter, Luz Lazo, keeps reporting this same way despite readers pointing out to her that nothing new "opened" inside the Beltway–they just changed how the HOV rules work there. She consistently ignores all such feedback. It's very misleading. The now-retired Dr. Gridlock would have considered the feedback and, if he chose to disregard it, he would have said why.

The project keeps three general-purpose lanes eastbound and westbound, adding two HOT lanes in each direction. Those lanes will connect with 10 miles of rush-hour, peak-direction toll lanes that opened in December 2017 between the Beltway and the District.