The Saw Mill River Parkway in New York has its quirks and differences. But one of the most annoying things about it is Exit 32 Northbound in Chappaqua. The exit is narrow and at a ridiculously sharp angle to the parkway, and immediately after an underpass too. Keep in mind this is a 55 MPH zone, with many going 60 or 65 anyways. Most taking the exit would need to slow down using the parkway as a deceleration lane. NYSDOT needs to fix this ASAP imo. Things like these are the drawbacks of being a hybrid freeway: high speeds, but roadways that aren't exactly designed to accommodate those high speeds, which rings true for other parts of the SMRP too. I took these photos on March 1st, 2020.
(https://i.ibb.co/Xpn2gvB/80-C329-BA-3532-4-DE5-B166-2-FC5-EB75063-B.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Xpn2gvB) (https://i.ibb.co/yXJGSqs/2664-A92-B-C4-DE-4-F81-BD2-C-0-FBB9-FC088-B8.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yXJGSqs)
GSV link (hope I linked this correctly): https://bit.ly/2HdAVBp (https://bit.ly/2HdAVBp)
The Saw Mill is an extremely substandard road, even by NY parkway standards. Entrance/Exit ramps like this are all too common (SB Ashford Ave exit comes to mind)
If NYSDOT ever upgrades the parkway (they won't) the focus should really be on eliminating the at grade intersections first, and raising the roadway in Pleasantville. The substandard entrances and exits while dangerous aren't as important as these two things.
I also take issue with NYSDOT's design for exit 37, Kisco Ave, which was rebuilt recently. Despite the excessively long acceleration lanes, they put yield signs on the entrances. This really bothers me because putting yield signs up for these situations is actually dangerous. If drivers can't trust a yield sign to actually mean slow down and stop, it devalues the control at the other locations where it's necessary (which is often on NY Parkways). The Palisades Parkway is especially guilty of these unnecessary yield signs, mixed in with yield signs that are actually warranted.
There are also no advisory speed warnings for exit 37 which has a sharp 25 or 30 mph curve. With the way the road curves heading southbound it is difficult to notice how sharp the exit is if you're not familiar with it. Not on Google Street view, but often while driving by it I see visible tire paths in the grass island beyond the exit.
Quote from: TheDon102 on October 18, 2020, 01:37:46 PM
The Saw Mill is an extremely substandard road, even by NY parkway standards. Entrance/Exit ramps like this are all too common (SB Ashford Ave exit comes to mind)
If NYSDOT ever upgrades the parkway (they won't) the focus should really be on eliminating the at grade intersections first, and raising the roadway in Pleasantville. The substandard entrances and exits while dangerous aren't as important as these two things.
The one and only time I've driven the Saw Mill was about a month ago, on the way to Hartford CT. I suppose if you drive the road frequently you get used to the road's design, but for those who've never been on it before it can be a stressful drive. Those stoplights have a way of sneaking up on you! In the future if Waze (or whatever other app) recommends the Saw Mill, I'm staying on I-287 and taking I-684 instead.
Quote from: Crown Victoria on October 18, 2020, 06:11:13 PM
Quote from: TheDon102 on October 18, 2020, 01:37:46 PM
The Saw Mill is an extremely substandard road, even by NY parkway standards. Entrance/Exit ramps like this are all too common (SB Ashford Ave exit comes to mind)
If NYSDOT ever upgrades the parkway (they won't) the focus should really be on eliminating the at grade intersections first, and raising the roadway in Pleasantville. The substandard entrances and exits while dangerous aren't as important as these two things.
The one and only time I've driven the Saw Mill was about a month ago, on the way to Hartford CT. I suppose if you drive the road frequently you get used to the road's design, but for those who've never been on it before it can be a stressful drive. Those stoplights have a way of sneaking up on you! In the future if Waze (or whatever other app) recommends the Saw Mill, I'm staying on I-287 and taking I-684 instead.
I love the Saw Mill but I would count as "used to it."
Saw Mill is one of the better ways into the City for passenger vehicles. Back in the 1980s, it was even worse for entrances and exits. The drive's a breeze now. :D
Quote from: Rothman on October 18, 2020, 10:11:30 PM
Saw Mill is one of the better ways into the City for passenger vehicles. Back in the 1980s, it was even worse for entrances and exits. The drive's a breeze now. :D
I would respectfully disagree. The parkway was designed many decades ago when most cars wouldn't exceed 35 or so mph, so sharp exits/tiny acceleration lanes weren't a problem. It hasn't evolved to catch up with the automobile. There are also times when it gets so narrow and windy that I'm not sure how I was able to make it through without catching a sideswipe. No hate to you or NYSDOT though, you guys are very much appreciated! :-D
Quote from: interstatefan990 on October 18, 2020, 11:17:21 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 18, 2020, 10:11:30 PM
Saw Mill is one of the better ways into the City for passenger vehicles. Back in the 1980s, it was even worse for entrances and exits. The drive's a breeze now. :D
I would respectfully disagree. The parkway was designed many decades ago when most cars wouldn't exceed 35 or so mph, so sharp exits/tiny acceleration lanes weren't a problem. It hasn't evolved to catch up with the automobile. There are also times when it gets so narrow and windy that I'm not sure how I was able to make it through without catching a sideswipe. No hate to you or NYSDOT though, you guys are very much appreciated! :-D
Suit yourself. One less car on the good road in for me to deal with. :D
I have to agree with InterstateFan, The Don, and NoGoodNames. I love the scenery of the Saw Mill River Parkway, but I hate the intersections and defective interchanges. And I still see plenty of places where some of them can easily be rebuilt as decent interchanges.
Quote from: Rothman on October 19, 2020, 01:39:33 AM
Quote from: interstatefan990 on October 18, 2020, 11:17:21 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 18, 2020, 10:11:30 PM
Saw Mill is one of the better ways into the City for passenger vehicles. Back in the 1980s, it was even worse for entrances and exits. The drive's a breeze now. :D
I would respectfully disagree. The parkway was designed many decades ago when most cars wouldn't exceed 35 or so mph, so sharp exits/tiny acceleration lanes weren't a problem. It hasn't evolved to catch up with the automobile. There are also times when it gets so narrow and windy that I'm not sure how I was able to make it through without catching a sideswipe. No hate to you or NYSDOT though, you guys are very much appreciated! :-D
Suit yourself. One less car on the good road in for me to deal with. :D
Tell the higher ups to invest a couple billion into the saw mill, it'll make us very happy. :bigass:
Quote from: TheDon102 on October 19, 2020, 12:21:49 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 19, 2020, 01:39:33 AM
Quote from: interstatefan990 on October 18, 2020, 11:17:21 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 18, 2020, 10:11:30 PM
Saw Mill is one of the better ways into the City for passenger vehicles. Back in the 1980s, it was even worse for entrances and exits. The drive's a breeze now. :D
I would respectfully disagree. The parkway was designed many decades ago when most cars wouldn't exceed 35 or so mph, so sharp exits/tiny acceleration lanes weren't a problem. It hasn't evolved to catch up with the automobile. There are also times when it gets so narrow and windy that I'm not sure how I was able to make it through without catching a sideswipe. No hate to you or NYSDOT though, you guys are very much appreciated! :-D
Suit yourself. One less car on the good road in for me to deal with. :D
Tell the higher ups to invest a couple billion into the saw mill, it'll make us very happy. :bigass:
Why? Keeping it substandard is a deterrent to traffic, evidently.
Saw Mill Parkway is everything that's wonderful and terrible about being a roadgeek, depending on your perspective: it seems that no two exits are alike, there's some weird curves, odd ramps (there's a 5 mph ramp), some occasionally terrifying lane separation, unexpected at-grades, lots of old stuff, part of it looks seemingly abandoned, and packed with decent scenery.
It's a nightmare for perfectionists but great for those of us who like variety.
Quote from: Rothman on October 19, 2020, 05:23:14 PM
Quote from: TheDon102 on October 19, 2020, 12:21:49 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 19, 2020, 01:39:33 AM
Quote from: interstatefan990 on October 18, 2020, 11:17:21 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 18, 2020, 10:11:30 PM
Saw Mill is one of the better ways into the City for passenger vehicles. Back in the 1980s, it was even worse for entrances and exits. The drive's a breeze now. :D
I would respectfully disagree. The parkway was designed many decades ago when most cars wouldn't exceed 35 or so mph, so sharp exits/tiny acceleration lanes weren't a problem. It hasn't evolved to catch up with the automobile. There are also times when it gets so narrow and windy that I'm not sure how I was able to make it through without catching a sideswipe. No hate to you or NYSDOT though, you guys are very much appreciated! :-D
Suit yourself. One less car on the good road in for me to deal with. :D
Tell the higher ups to invest a couple billion into the saw mill, it'll make us very happy. :bigass:
Why? Keeping it substandard is a deterrent to traffic, evidently.
Just make it look like this throughout :clap: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.2016262,-73.7406417,3a,75y,215.19h,81.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sd5duT5M9f6C3WezpVI_HRQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Judging from GSV, they seem to be widening the ramp to 2 lanes?
Ooh boy, here we go:
- The Cross County ends at basically a yield sign going onto the SMRP northbound, which is why the westbound CCP is always backed up.
- 87 southbound enters the SMRP southbound via a stop sign on a blind curve, next to another intersection: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0429834,-73.8364288,3a,75y,86.22h,88.15t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1saFiL0-uAp9bz1XHZ3BXVWg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
- This absurdity getting on northbound from Ashford Ave: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0115623,-73.8510246,3a,76.8y,37.6h,92.26t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s0cbwqXTrDyUftvozmjn_tg!2e0!5s20190701T000000!7i16384!8i8192. The southbound exit is so sharp, I saw someone t-bone someone on the on-ramp.
The partial stack interchange with the Taconic in Hawthorne is cool, but I almost never go further north than that.
Quote from: crispy93 on October 27, 2020, 03:35:54 PM
Ooh boy, here we go:
- The Cross County ends at basically a yield sign going onto the SMRP northbound, which is why the westbound CCP is always backed up.
- 87 southbound enters the SMRP southbound via a stop sign on a blind curve, next to another intersection: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0429834,-73.8364288,3a,75y,86.22h,88.15t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1saFiL0-uAp9bz1XHZ3BXVWg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
- This absurdity getting on northbound from Ashford Ave: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0115623,-73.8510246,3a,76.8y,37.6h,92.26t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s0cbwqXTrDyUftvozmjn_tg!2e0!5s20190701T000000!7i16384!8i8192. The southbound exit is so sharp, I saw someone t-bone someone on the on-ramp.
The partial stack interchange with the Taconic in Hawthorne is cool, but I almost never go further north than that.
The funny part, they recently redid the Ashford Avenue Bridge, you'd think they would provide a
proper entrance ramp, but nope.
Quote from: TheDon102 on October 27, 2020, 04:11:12 PM
Quote from: crispy93 on October 27, 2020, 03:35:54 PM
Ooh boy, here we go:
- The Cross County ends at basically a yield sign going onto the SMRP northbound, which is why the westbound CCP is always backed up.
- 87 southbound enters the SMRP southbound via a stop sign on a blind curve, next to another intersection: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0429834,-73.8364288,3a,75y,86.22h,88.15t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1saFiL0-uAp9bz1XHZ3BXVWg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
- This absurdity getting on northbound from Ashford Ave: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0115623,-73.8510246,3a,76.8y,37.6h,92.26t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s0cbwqXTrDyUftvozmjn_tg!2e0!5s20190701T000000!7i16384!8i8192. The southbound exit is so sharp, I saw someone t-bone someone on the on-ramp.
The partial stack interchange with the Taconic in Hawthorne is cool, but I almost never go further north than that.
The funny part, they recently redid the Ashford Avenue Bridge, you'd think they would provide a proper entrance ramp, but nope.
Yeah I remember when that got done, but no real improvements ocurred for the exit/entrance areas. There's a rail trail abutting the northbound lanes but I don't see why they couldn't just make the northbound entrance go straight onto the parkway rather than the bizarro folded diamond thing that's there.
Quote from: crispy93 on October 27, 2020, 03:35:54 PM
- 87 southbound enters the SMRP southbound via a stop sign on a blind curve, next to another intersection: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0429834,-73.8364288,3a,75y,86.22h,88.15t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1saFiL0-uAp9bz1XHZ3BXVWg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
That intersection really has to be closed and turned into a dead-end street. I also see a right-of-way for extra southbound lanes, but how would that fix this problem?
Or was that intended for a proposed southbound flyover ramp?
Quote from: crispy93 on November 12, 2020, 02:41:10 PM
Yeah I remember when that got done, but no real improvements ocurred for the exit/entrance areas. There's a rail trail abutting the northbound lanes but I don't see why they couldn't just make the northbound entrance go straight onto the parkway rather than the bizarro folded diamond thing that's there.
Well, there are the Saw Mill River Wetlands in between.
Aren't they raising the parkway in spots? I thought I saw construction on it.
Btw, the Saw Mill makes the Merritt look good.
Quote from: TheDon102 on October 18, 2020, 01:37:46 PMIf NYSDOT ever upgrades the parkway (they can't)...
FTFY.
To do proper upgrades on the entire length of the Saw Mill would involve the taking of private property, which would be prohibitively...make that insanely...expensive. Same salami for the Hutch, the Bronx River, or most of the other parkways in Westchester which directly abut private property.
Quote from: SidS1045 on April 19, 2022, 01:39:31 PM
Quote from: TheDon102 on October 18, 2020, 01:37:46 PMIf NYSDOT ever upgrades the parkway (they can't)...
FTFY.
To do proper upgrades on the entire length of the Saw Mill would involve the taking of private property, which would be prohibitively...make that insanely...expensive. Same salami for the Hutch, the Bronx River, or most of the other parkways in Westchester which directly abut private property.
I mean they can in spots, the parkway doesn't abut houses for its entire length. You can add shoulders to pretty much the entire length of the parkway without taking private property, like they've done near the NY Thruway (I-87) interchange https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0469346,-73.8303112,3a,75y,236.77h,84.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sY-ta1_1RWLyYI5ITgToctQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0469346,-73.8303112,3a,75y,236.77h,84.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sY-ta1_1RWLyYI5ITgToctQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192).
The difficult would obviously be in Dobbs Ferry and in Mt Kisco (NY-133) when the road does get really really close to private houses.
Quote from: SidS1045 on April 19, 2022, 01:39:31 PM
Quote from: TheDon102 on October 18, 2020, 01:37:46 PMIf NYSDOT ever upgrades the parkway (they can't)...
FTFY.
To do proper upgrades on the entire length of the Saw Mill would involve the taking of private property, which would be prohibitively...make that insanely...expensive. Same salami for the Hutch, the Bronx River, or most of the other parkways in Westchester which directly abut private property.
I've seen segments where they wouldn't necessarily have to acquire private property.
What's even more ridiculous is Exit 6. The ramp speed on the sign is literally 10 mph.
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.9505439,-73.8722522,3a,74.2y,177.42h,75.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFioR-KGaHB3ygr13NrMjug!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.9505439,-73.8722522,3a,74.2y,177.42h,75.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFioR-KGaHB3ygr13NrMjug!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
Does the Saw Mill River Parkway, or any other New York State Parkway planned to convert their exit numbers from sequential-to-mileage-based in the near future? So far, only the Taconic State Parkway and the Hutchinson River Parkway have been given mileage-based exits. I know Interstate 81 and Interstate 690 are planned to go to mile-based once 81 is rerouted onto 481, and the elevated highway south of 690 is demolished.
My guess is that if they did, the mileage used would not include the West Side/HHP mileage (that would be based on NY 9A mileage). Anyway, here is what the Saw Mill could look like with mileage based exits:
1A (SB ONLY): McLean Ave
1 (NB)/ 1B (SB): Cross County Pkwy
1C (SB ONLY): Rumsey Rd
2A: Yonkers Ave (West only SB)
2B: Palmer Rd
3: Tuckahoe Rd (NB); Lockwood Ave (SB)
4A: Executive Blvd (At-grade)
4B: Hearst St (At-grade)
5A: Tompkins Ave (At-grade)
5B: Farragut Pkwy (At-grade)
5C: Farragut Ave
6: Lawrence St (At-grade)
7: Ashford Ave
9 (NB ONLY): Thruway NB
11A: NY 119 EAST
11B: NY 119 WEST (/Thruway N/S SB ONLY)
13: Saw Mill River Rd
14 (NB ONLY): NY 9A TO NY 100
16: Taconic Pkway (NB); Sprain Brook Pkwy TO BRP (SB)
17: Marble Ave (At-grade)
18: Bedford Rd (NB); NY 117 TO NY 9A/100 (SB)
20: NY 120
22: Roaring Brook Rd/Reader's Digest Cir (At-grade)
24 (A SB): NY 133
24B (SB ONLY): Croton Ave
25: Kisco Ave
26 (NB ONLY): Green Lane
27 (A/B SB): NY 117
28: Harris Rd (NB); NY 117 (SB)
29 (SB ONLY): NY 117
The NB Exit to NY 35 would be 18, based on I-684 mileage, as it is technically an I-684 exit.
Quote from: D-Dey65 on October 19, 2020, 08:55:46 AM
I have to agree with InterstateFan, The Don, and NoGoodNames. I love the scenery of the Saw Mill River Parkway, but I hate the intersections and defective interchanges. And I still see plenty of places where some of them can easily be rebuilt as decent interchanges.
Used to travel that road as a kid in seventies and early eighties. Yep remember the deficiencies even back then. A lot of interesting elements also - the stone bridges (with lousy horizontal clearance) and sections of what appeared to be original longitudinal slab concrete pavement, already by then nearly fifty years old, with large aggregate clearly visible.
Any data on accidents - such as grisly T Bones at some of the non grade separated intersections? Unfortunately, there has had to have been more than one.