Michigan Notes

[wanderer2575]

MDOT is conducting a survey regarding dynamic message signs.  Go to the www.mi.gov/drive traffic website and click when "Notice: Take Electronic Message Sign Survey" appears on the banner.

[wanderer2575]

Confirming that M-137 is no more (posts 544-546).  I was on US-31 yesterday through the junction with M-137's northern terminus, and all the junction assemblies and the southbound confirmation assembly are gone.

[wanderer2575]

https://www.michigan.gov/mdot/0,4616,7-151-9620-539372--,00.html

The Michigan Department of Transportation (MDOT) will be resurfacing almost 4 miles of M-60 from M-311 to I-69.  The $481,000 investment includes milling and resurfacing, pavement markings and corrugations.

Let's see if they finally sign the route junction with M-311.

[rawmustard]

https://www.michigan.gov/mdot/0,4616,7-151-9620-539372--,00.html

The Michigan Department of Transportation (MDOT) will be resurfacing almost 4 miles of M-60 from M-311 to I-69.  The $481,000 investment includes milling and resurfacing, pavement markings and corrugations.

Let's see if they finally sign the route junction with M-311.

Usually sign replacement isn't included in a milling and resurfacing contract, although I believe that area is due for sign replacements.

[JREwing78]

US-127 in Mason is emerging as a common location for bridge strikes. This time, it was the Columbia Rd overpass.

State highway officials said a trash container being hauled on a truck hit the bridge before another truck hit the trailer carrying the trash container, causing it to strike another part of the bridge.

https://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/2020/10/14/mdot-northbound-u-s-127-closed-near-mason-after-bridge-damaged/3651309001/

[Flint1979]

US-127 in Mason is emerging as a common location for bridge strikes. This time, it was the Columbia Rd overpass.

State highway officials said a trash container being hauled on a truck hit the bridge before another truck hit the trailer carrying the trash container, causing it to strike another part of the bridge.

https://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/2020/10/14/mdot-northbound-u-s-127-closed-near-mason-after-bridge-damaged/3651309001/

That's just a little ways east of another spot on Columbia Road that was mentioned last summer I think. The intersection at Waverly and the Grand River. My cousin's husband was killed in a similar accident on the Ohio Turnpike last year.

[captkirk_4]

I noticed in Michigan there is a strange type of truck design not seen in other states. They look like a centipede, not an 18 wheeler but more like a 50 wheeler. The whole length of the trailer is all axles and tires. I don't know what these are or why they are not seen in Indiana or Illinois.

[pianocello]

I noticed in Michigan there is a strange type of truck design not seen in other states. They look like a centipede, not an 18 wheeler but more like a 50 wheeler. The whole length of the trailer is all axles and tires. I don't know what these are or why they are not seen in Indiana or Illinois.

I know what you're taking about. Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought I heard once that those trucks are designed to carry a bunch more weight (hence the need for more axles), and therefore are not allowed in most states except for Michigan. I'm not sure what they're used for, though. Gravel or paving materials, maybe?

[GaryV]

Yep, 164k pound weight limit for trucks in MI.  And they say (with a straight face) that it doesn't harm the roads because the weight is distributed.  Yeah, sure.

[JREwing78]

The story is that it doesn't matter if you have 2 80,000 lb trucks or 1 160,000 lb truck in terms of road wear as long as you have enough axles to limit the weight of each axle. The 160,000 lb trucks have a LOT of axles to carry the weight, which is how they get away with it.

But in fact, the 160,000 lb trucks actually do 20% less damage to the roadway for the same amount of freight hauled. How?

Assume that one 80,000lb rig can haul 40,000 lbs of freight, and thus 2 80,000 lb rigs can thus haul 80,000 lbs of freight. But a single 160,000 lb truck requires one fewer driver and tractor, freeing up about 20,000 lbs for additional cargo. So your 160,000 lb rig can haul 100,000 lbs of freight.

Assume you have 200,000 lbs of freight to move. A single 160,000 lb truck can haul that in TWO loads, but it takes the 80,000 lb truck FIVE loads to haul that amount.

Or, put another way - you did FOUR 80,000 lb trucks worth of damage to the road with the two 160,000 lb truck trips, but hauled FIVE 80,000 lb truck trips worth of freight in the process.

20% less damage, and 60% fewer trucks to haul that freight. Sounds like a smart idea to me.

[GaryV]

So it's just coincidence that Michigan roads are usually worse than the surrounding states?  Yeah, yeah, funding, whatever.  But our gas prices aren't any lower (usually higher than neighbors) - so where is that gas tax going?

[Flint1979]

There are several freeways in Michigan that are in dire need of upgrades.

Some of the one's that get on my nerves are US-23 between Flint and the Ohio border, I-94 between Ann Arbor and Benton Harbor, I-75 between Bay City and Standish, I-69 between Flint and Lansing, US-127 between St. Johns and Ithaca. Almost every case is, the road needs to be widened. Every highway I mentioned here is four lanes in the stretches I mentioned.

And the thing is these highways have needed upgrades for at least 20 years.

[JREwing78]

So it's just coincidence that Michigan roads are usually worse than the surrounding states?  Yeah, yeah, funding, whatever.  But our gas prices aren't any lower (usually higher than neighbors) - so where is that gas tax going?

Michigan charges 6% sales tax on top of the fuel taxes. For a long time, that went straight into the general fund. I don't know if that's changed since. I don't have a great answer for the rest of your question, besides that Michigan has long underfunded MDOT and transportation in general.

Add I-96 between Grand Rapids and Howell to the 6-laning list. US-131 between Grand Rapids and Kalamazoo isn't far off either.

[bulldog1979]

Michigan charges 6% sales tax on top of the fuel taxes. For a long time, that went straight into the general fund. I don't know if that's changed since.

The sales tax in Michigan was raised in 1994 from 4% to 6%, and at the time, the additional  tax was dedicated to the School Aid Fund. Of the original 4% tax, 60% of the receipts are also dedicated to the School Aid Fund, 15% goes to revenue sharing with local governments on a per capita basis, another 21.3% goes to revenue sharing on a statutory allocation and the remaining 3.7% goes to the General Fund. That formula was set up in 1946. The sales tax on fuel is no different from the sales tax on another other item.

[aboges26]

I noticed in Michigan there is a strange type of truck design not seen in other states. They look like a centipede, not an 18 wheeler but more like a 50 wheeler. The whole length of the trailer is all axles and tires. I don't know what these are or why they are not seen in Indiana or Illinois.

They are locally called "gravel trains".

[JREwing78]

I noticed in Michigan there is a strange type of truck design not seen in other states. They look like a centipede, not an 18 wheeler but more like a 50 wheeler. The whole length of the trailer is all axles and tires. I don't know what these are or why they are not seen in Indiana or Illinois.

They are locally called "gravel trains".

They need the extra axles because they are hauling very heavy loads; the extra axles limit the weight any one axle exerts on the pavement. Michigan's 160,000 lb weight limit makes use of rigs like this possible.

[mgk920]

I noticed in Michigan there is a strange type of truck design not seen in other states. They look like a centipede, not an 18 wheeler but more like a 50 wheeler. The whole length of the trailer is all axles and tires. I don't know what these are or why they are not seen in Indiana or Illinois.

They are locally called "gravel trains".

They need the extra axles because they are hauling very heavy loads; the extra axles limit the weight any one axle exerts on the pavement. Michigan's 160,000 lb weight limit makes use of rigs like this possible.

Those 'all wheels' trucks ply Da YooPee, too.  Does the Mackinac Bridge authority allow them to cross?

Mike

[NWI_Irish96]

I noticed in Michigan there is a strange type of truck design not seen in other states. They look like a centipede, not an 18 wheeler but more like a 50 wheeler. The whole length of the trailer is all axles and tires. I don't know what these are or why they are not seen in Indiana or Illinois.

I know what you're taking about. Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought I heard once that those trucks are designed to carry a bunch more weight (hence the need for more axles), and therefore are not allowed in most states except for Michigan. I'm not sure what they're used for, though. Gravel or paving materials, maybe?

I have an uncle who is from Sturgis, and I remember a long time ago telling me that a lot of big trucks heading to Michigan from points west would use the Sturgis/Howe exit from the Indiana Toll Road because it was the only road in Indiana that allowed them and that exit was just a few hundred feet from the state line.

[wanderer2575]

December 16, 2020 -- The Michigan Department of Transportation (MDOT) has launched an online survey for a segment of US-131 between M-11 (28th Street) and the S-curve (Market Avenue) in Grand Rapids and Wyoming as part of a Planning and Environmental Linkages (PEL) study.  The PEL process represents a collaborative and integrated approach to transportation decision-making that considers environmental, community, and economic goals, as well as traffic issues, early in the transportation planning process.

MDOT news release with link to survey:  https://www.michigan.gov/mdot/0,4616,7-151-9620-547864--,00.html

[Ryctor2018]

I have a question for Michiganian roadgeeks: Can someone tell me why MDOT did not expand US-127 south of Jackson? From M-50 south to the US-12/US-127 intersection? I have traveled this road before, plus saw the property lines on Google Earth. I don't necessarily mean extend the freeway south. There's nowhere for the freeway to go, unless MDOT were to extend it down to Adrian & Ohio. That is a dead-end after I-73 was cancelled. What I mean is that MDOT has a wide right of way to expand US-127 to a 5-lane cross-section in that area. Especially with MIS down the road in Brooklyn, MI. See the link below for a satellite view. If you zoom in, you can see the MDOT property line marker.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0883111,-84.3638233,3a,38.4y,156.37h,89.8t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFtJR4O8XcWQjHbkLp89PNQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[Flint1979]

I have a question for Michiganian roadgeeks: Can someone tell me why MDOT did not expand US-127 south of Jackson? From M-50 south to the US-12/US-127 intersection? I have traveled this road before, plus saw the property lines on Google Earth. I don't necessarily mean extend the freeway south. There's nowhere for the freeway to go, unless MDOT were to extend it down to Adrian & Ohio. That is a dead-end after I-73 was cancelled. What I mean is that MDOT has a wide right of way to expand US-127 to a 5-lane cross-section in that area. Especially with MIS down the road in Brooklyn, MI. See the link below for a satellite view. If you zoom in, you can see the MDOT property line marker.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0883111,-84.3638233,3a,38.4y,156.37h,89.8t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFtJR4O8XcWQjHbkLp89PNQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

South of Jackson there really isn't as much traffic as you'd think that uses US-127. The lowest VPD count for the entire state on US-127 is 1,253 near the state line. Any Toledo to Lansing or vice versa traffic is going to use US-23 and I-96.Even for Toledo to Jackson traffic and vice versa that traffic is going to use US-23 and I-94 instead of US-223 and US-127. It's shorter to take 127 and 223 but more time consuming. Jackson isn't really that big of a city either. It's about the 50th largest community in the state.

[JREwing78]

I have a question for Michiganian roadgeeks: Can someone tell me why MDOT did not expand US-127 south of Jackson?

Financial reasons. There were clear plans to build a freeway linking Jackson to Toledo via Adrian, but the funding didn't happen. Chris Bessert of MichiganHighways.org has more info: http://www.michiganhighways.org/listings/MichHwys120-139.html#US-127

[Flint1979]

I have a question for Michiganian roadgeeks: Can someone tell me why MDOT did not expand US-127 south of Jackson?

Financial reasons. There were clear plans to build a freeway linking Jackson to Toledo via Adrian, but the funding didn't happen. Chris Bessert of MichiganHighways.org has more info: http://www.michiganhighways.org/listings/MichHwys120-139.html#US-127

US-127 is pretty much a lonely highway in most areas south of US-223. I took it as a way to get to Cincinnati once and it was a pretty nice drive most of the way.

[Ryctor2018]

I have a question for Michiganian roadgeeks: Can someone tell me why MDOT did not expand US-127 south of Jackson?

Financial reasons. There were clear plans to build a freeway linking Jackson to Toledo via Adrian, but the funding didn't happen. Chris Bessert of MichiganHighways.org has more info: http://www.michiganhighways.org/listings/MichHwys120-139.html#US-127

US-127 is pretty much a lonely highway in most areas south of US-223. I took it as a way to get to Cincinnati once and it was a pretty nice drive most of the way.

Thanks. That makes since, though if the freeway is cancelled and MDOT won't widen the road, they might as well sell the right of way to locals in the area. Instead of hanging on to 100's of feet of land for years.

[wanderer2575]

MDOT is taking public comment next month on transferring M-37 on the Old Mission Peninsula to the Grand Traverse County Road Commission. Such a transfer would mean the removal of M-37 as a Pure Michigan Byway because county roads are ineligible for inclusion in the program, and the department cannot decommission that byway designation without a 30-day public comment period. The GTRC and City of Traverse City have supported the transfer, but Peninsula Township has opposed it.

If MDOT were to transfer M-37 on the Old Mission Peninsula to Grand Traverse County, it would likely lead to the removal of one of very few three-way concurrencies in Michigan (US-31/M-37/M-72 run concurrent along West Grand Traverse Bay for two miles)

They might remove M-37 from the triple concurrency, but MDOT recently issued a contract letting (item #036 on 10/02/2020) for sign replacement on (among other routes) the stretch of US-31/M-37 between its southern split at Chums Corner and its northern junction with M-72 in Traverse City, and the plans show retention of the duplex along that stretch.  One would think that if M-37 would also be removed there, MDOT might wait until the issue of eliminating M-37 on Old Mission Peninsula was decided.  So we might instead end up with a useless duplex.  Or MDOT's left hand (sign replacement) doesn't know what its right hand (route elimination) is doing and they end up removing M-37 shields from the duplex shortly after installing them.